1
00:00:02,035 --> 00:00:03,704
[gentle music]

2
00:00:07,574 --> 00:00:09,109
- Daryl Beyers: My name
is Daryl Beyers.

3
00:00:09,176 --> 00:00:11,512
Let me tell you just
a little bit about who I am

4
00:00:11,578 --> 00:00:13,480
so you will basically believe
the stuff

5
00:00:13,547 --> 00:00:15,082
that I'm about to tell you.

6
00:00:15,148 --> 00:00:17,184
I do have credentials.

7
00:00:17,251 --> 00:00:20,120
I studied landscape architecture
and landscape design

8
00:00:20,187 --> 00:00:21,522
at the University of Minnesota,

9
00:00:21,588 --> 00:00:23,724
and that was where I got my
degree in environmental design,

10
00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:25,993
and I became a--
After school,

11
00:00:26,059 --> 00:00:28,996
I became an estate gardener and
I got into gardening that way.

12
00:00:29,062 --> 00:00:31,164
So, I learned gardening
on the job,

13
00:00:31,231 --> 00:00:32,399
which was kind of fun.

14
00:00:32,466 --> 00:00:35,235
Since then, and that was,
that was back before,

15
00:00:35,302 --> 00:00:39,006
you know, in the other
millennial, millennia,

16
00:00:39,072 --> 00:00:42,142
was in the 1990s
that I got out of school

17
00:00:42,209 --> 00:00:43,844
and started doing
gardening work.

18
00:00:43,911 --> 00:00:47,381
And so, I've designed gardens,
mostly on the East Coast.

19
00:00:47,447 --> 00:00:49,483
I moved from--
My wife and I

20
00:00:49,550 --> 00:00:51,785
moved out to Connecticut
in 2000,

21
00:00:51,852 --> 00:00:54,621
and that was where I spent 20
years making gardens out there,

22
00:00:54,688 --> 00:00:56,423
though originally
I'm from Wisconsin.

23
00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:58,091
I grew up here.

24
00:00:58,158 --> 00:00:59,259
The zones are similar.

25
00:00:59,326 --> 00:01:01,028
I've gardened in lots
of different zones,

26
00:01:01,094 --> 00:01:03,564
different, you know,
kinds of winters.

27
00:01:03,630 --> 00:01:05,766
I was gardening
up in Minneapolis.

28
00:01:05,832 --> 00:01:08,535
It's colder up there
than it is here.

29
00:01:08,602 --> 00:01:11,071
And then, I also gardened
for a little while in Georgia.

30
00:01:11,138 --> 00:01:12,406
I was on an estate there.

31
00:01:12,472 --> 00:01:14,541
And then, now we actually moved
out west,

32
00:01:14,608 --> 00:01:17,244
and I live
in far northern California

33
00:01:17,311 --> 00:01:19,746
and I'm in a zone nine, which is
a whole different world.

34
00:01:19,813 --> 00:01:22,015
So, I love to try
different things,

35
00:01:22,082 --> 00:01:23,350
but the majority of my work

36
00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:27,287
has taken place in a very
similar zone to where you're at.

37
00:01:27,354 --> 00:01:30,390
And as a landscape designer
sort of coming into properties

38
00:01:30,457 --> 00:01:34,661
and wanting to work and, like,
people need things from me,

39
00:01:34,728 --> 00:01:38,732
sometimes they need a hedge or
they need some privacy screening

40
00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:40,067
or something else like that.

41
00:01:40,133 --> 00:01:43,637
And after doing it
for 25, 30 years,

42
00:01:43,704 --> 00:01:46,373
it gets pretty boring to just do
the same thing over--

43
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,143
a row of Norway spruce
or a row of this.

44
00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:51,411
And it got kind of dull,

45
00:01:51,478 --> 00:01:53,614
and so, I was always trying
to think of newer ways

46
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,249
to think of, think about it.

47
00:01:55,315 --> 00:01:57,251
And so, one of the first things
I ever did

48
00:01:57,317 --> 00:01:58,719
was my screening trees.

49
00:01:58,785 --> 00:02:00,521
Instead of a row of trees,

50
00:02:00,587 --> 00:02:02,890
I would do--
create screening groves

51
00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:04,491
and sort of combinations
of trees

52
00:02:04,558 --> 00:02:06,026
and sort of thinking that way.

53
00:02:06,093 --> 00:02:10,664
Now, the good news was, when
I studied landscape in school,

54
00:02:10,731 --> 00:02:12,466
the way that academia seems
to work

55
00:02:12,533 --> 00:02:14,768
is they're always
about two decades ahead

56
00:02:14,835 --> 00:02:16,970
of the industry practices.

57
00:02:17,037 --> 00:02:20,374
And so, I had learned
a lot of these concepts of,

58
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,744
you know, permaculture,
regenerative agriculture,

59
00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:26,246
habitat gardening,
and things like that,

60
00:02:26,313 --> 00:02:29,249
but I wasn't able to practice it
in my profession

61
00:02:29,316 --> 00:02:32,519
until really just in the past
ten years or so.

62
00:02:32,586 --> 00:02:33,754
And so, along the way,

63
00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:35,622
I decided that, like,
maybe there's a better way

64
00:02:35,689 --> 00:02:37,224
to do a hedge, right?

65
00:02:37,291 --> 00:02:41,495
And I landed on the idea
of the habitat hedgerow.

66
00:02:41,562 --> 00:02:44,131
And so, I kind of took
the concept of a hedge

67
00:02:44,198 --> 00:02:46,400
and backed it up into hedgerow

68
00:02:46,466 --> 00:02:49,736
and then added the extra layer
of creating habitat.

69
00:02:49,803 --> 00:02:52,439
In other words,
places for the birds to live,

70
00:02:52,506 --> 00:02:54,308
the toads, the butterflies,

71
00:02:54,374 --> 00:02:56,743
all those good insects
that we need in our garden

72
00:02:56,810 --> 00:02:58,979
to create an ecosystem
in our garden.

73
00:02:59,046 --> 00:03:00,581
And that landed in this program.

74
00:03:00,647 --> 00:03:03,383
And so, I've taught this
as a two-hour class once,

75
00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:06,019
and I did this talk yesterday.

76
00:03:06,086 --> 00:03:09,323
So, you're new to me, right,
so this is new.

77
00:03:09,389 --> 00:03:11,925
But the work isn't new to me.

78
00:03:11,992 --> 00:03:14,361
I've been doing this
for about five years now,

79
00:03:14,428 --> 00:03:15,829
making these kinds of gardens,

80
00:03:15,896 --> 00:03:18,866
and so I wanna share it
with you.

81
00:03:18,932 --> 00:03:23,203
So, we'll start by looking at
a little history of the hedge.

82
00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:25,405
The history of hedgerows
in particular.

83
00:03:25,472 --> 00:03:27,975
And so, it's the kind of thing
that started in Europe,

84
00:03:28,041 --> 00:03:30,844
and they were, these things
were planted in order

85
00:03:30,911 --> 00:03:32,646
to keep the cows in the fields,

86
00:03:32,713 --> 00:03:35,482
to keep the people out
of the fields, maybe,

87
00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:36,683
and stuff like that.

88
00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:37,851
So, it was like a barrier.

89
00:03:37,918 --> 00:03:40,187
These hedgerows were designed
as barriers

90
00:03:40,254 --> 00:03:42,022
in the fields in Europe.

91
00:03:42,089 --> 00:03:43,624
And places in England,

92
00:03:43,690 --> 00:03:45,325
hedgerows in France
are a big deal.

93
00:03:45,392 --> 00:03:46,727
So, there is a--

94
00:03:46,793 --> 00:03:49,129
If you're ever interested
in making a traditional

95
00:03:49,196 --> 00:03:52,299
English-style hedgerow,
there's a technique to it

96
00:03:52,366 --> 00:03:56,436
that is a lot different than
just planting a row of shrubs.

97
00:03:56,503 --> 00:03:58,739
That's kind of an automatic,

98
00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:01,141
but there's a pruning practice
that goes with it.

99
00:04:01,208 --> 00:04:03,577
The way that they'd form
these kinds of hedgerows

100
00:04:03,644 --> 00:04:05,712
is they plant things
kind of at an angle,

101
00:04:05,779 --> 00:04:07,648
and then they prune it
so things grow up,

102
00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:10,584
and it becomes like a thicket
that you can't get through.

103
00:04:10,651 --> 00:04:11,919
A deer can't get through it.

104
00:04:11,985 --> 00:04:13,921
A pheasant could
probably barely get through it.

105
00:04:13,987 --> 00:04:15,389
And so, that's the--

106
00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:19,193
That was sort of the origination
of the idea goes back to these,

107
00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:21,128
you know, hedgerows,

108
00:04:21,195 --> 00:04:23,363
but, like, you know,
man-made, human-manufactured,

109
00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:26,099
you know,
human-made hedgerows in Europe.

110
00:04:26,166 --> 00:04:27,467
So, that's the initial--

111
00:04:27,534 --> 00:04:30,404
That's where we got the idea
of a hedge for our gardens.

112
00:04:30,470 --> 00:04:33,774
And this is what we think of
when we think of a hedge, right?

113
00:04:33,841 --> 00:04:36,310
One plant planted in a row.

114
00:04:36,677 --> 00:04:39,413
The old arborvitae,
right, screening.

115
00:04:39,479 --> 00:04:40,547
Seen that.

116
00:04:40,614 --> 00:04:42,516
If you got deer,
that ain't gonna work, right?

117
00:04:42,583 --> 00:04:45,385
But you know, the hedging
that you trim,

118
00:04:45,452 --> 00:04:46,587
and you can keep it clean,

119
00:04:46,653 --> 00:04:48,522
and it's kind of like
an English gardening style.

120
00:04:48,589 --> 00:04:50,490
Italian gardens do it.

121
00:04:50,557 --> 00:04:52,025
Even French gardens
will do a lot

122
00:04:52,092 --> 00:04:53,994
of, like, clipped hedges
and stuff like that.

123
00:04:54,061 --> 00:04:55,696
It's a monoculture,

124
00:04:55,762 --> 00:04:59,867
so it's not necessarily adding
to any diversity in your garden.

125
00:04:59,933 --> 00:05:03,003
And oftentimes, these are
nonnative plants to begin with.

126
00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:04,204
And what you're gonna find out

127
00:05:04,271 --> 00:05:07,207
as I continue to talk about
the habitat hedgerow,

128
00:05:07,274 --> 00:05:10,277
the key to the answer--
the key answer to everything

129
00:05:10,344 --> 00:05:13,280
about, "How can I make
habitat in my garden?"

130
00:05:13,347 --> 00:05:15,749
is, "Plant native plants."

131
00:05:15,816 --> 00:05:17,017
That's the answer.

132
00:05:17,084 --> 00:05:19,086
It's just like
when I teach my soil classes

133
00:05:19,152 --> 00:05:20,988
to my gardening students,
they're like,

134
00:05:21,054 --> 00:05:24,625
"How can I make my soil better
so my plants will grow better?"

135
00:05:24,691 --> 00:05:26,126
You add compost to it.

136
00:05:26,193 --> 00:05:27,694
It's the answer, right?

137
00:05:27,761 --> 00:05:29,129
It does lots
of different things.

138
00:05:29,196 --> 00:05:30,531
It provides lots
of different things.

139
00:05:30,597 --> 00:05:32,599
It helps for water retention

140
00:05:32,666 --> 00:05:34,301
and for fertility
and stuff like that.

141
00:05:34,368 --> 00:05:37,738
So, there's a single answer
about creating a habitat garden

142
00:05:37,804 --> 00:05:40,073
and that is,
grow only native plants,

143
00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:41,441
because those are the plants

144
00:05:41,508 --> 00:05:42,876
that the birds are
gonna want,

145
00:05:42,943 --> 00:05:44,778
the insects are gonna like

146
00:05:44,845 --> 00:05:47,114
and that are gonna fit
with where you live.

147
00:05:47,181 --> 00:05:48,448
So, that's the first trick,

148
00:05:48,515 --> 00:05:50,918
but it can get a little bit
more involved than that,

149
00:05:50,984 --> 00:05:52,119
and that's what we wanna do.

150
00:05:52,186 --> 00:05:56,190
But a hedge is kind of
just this basic thing.

151
00:05:57,524 --> 00:05:59,226
Designwise,
then we get into something

152
00:05:59,293 --> 00:06:00,661
called a mixed shrub border.

153
00:06:00,727 --> 00:06:03,897
You may have seen things like
this at, like, Olbrich Gardens

154
00:06:03,964 --> 00:06:05,666
or some other botanical gardens,

155
00:06:05,732 --> 00:06:10,037
or, like, nice, kind of
expensive gardens maybe

156
00:06:10,103 --> 00:06:12,105
at somebody's house.

157
00:06:12,739 --> 00:06:16,677
I've done stuff like that
out east, and I never, like,

158
00:06:16,743 --> 00:06:19,046
ran into the really wealthy
client in Wisconsin yet,

159
00:06:19,112 --> 00:06:21,148
so maybe if you're here,
let me know.

160
00:06:21,215 --> 00:06:22,549
[all laugh]

161
00:06:22,616 --> 00:06:25,352
But anyways, you sort of do
this mixed shrub idea.

162
00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:27,120
And so, it's a combination
of shrubs

163
00:06:27,187 --> 00:06:29,723
with different forms
and textures and flower times,

164
00:06:29,790 --> 00:06:31,291
and you combine them.

165
00:06:31,358 --> 00:06:33,694
And a lot of it has to do
with creating this depth

166
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:34,862
and interest.

167
00:06:34,928 --> 00:06:37,531
And you can see, looking
at this, these images,

168
00:06:37,598 --> 00:06:39,333
that there's a lot
of different things going on

169
00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:41,335
in what we call
a mixed shrub border.

170
00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,704
Now, the issue is
that typically, this would be,

171
00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:46,640
these would be
not necessarily native plants.

172
00:06:46,707 --> 00:06:48,842
Now, what a lot of you
might be finding out is,

173
00:06:48,909 --> 00:06:53,113
you know, the native plant thing
has caught on, finally.

174
00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:54,548
It took a while, right?

175
00:06:54,615 --> 00:06:57,117
The interesting thing is,
about seven, eight years,

176
00:06:57,184 --> 00:06:59,353
when it really started to
kind of get that good traction,

177
00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:01,889
maybe ten years ago, people
would go to garden centers

178
00:07:01,955 --> 00:07:03,657
and realize
that a lot of the plants

179
00:07:03,724 --> 00:07:05,425
that were at the garden centers
were natives.

180
00:07:05,492 --> 00:07:07,895
They just didn't advertise it
as a native.

181
00:07:07,961 --> 00:07:09,963
You know, <i>Linderas,</i>
like, spicebushes

182
00:07:10,030 --> 00:07:11,565
and <i>Fothergilla</i>
and cool stuff like that.

183
00:07:11,632 --> 00:07:14,168
Even a lot of the
<i>Viburnum</i> shrubs that we grow,

184
00:07:14,234 --> 00:07:16,837
they're all natives and they've
been selling 'em for years,

185
00:07:16,904 --> 00:07:19,106
but they're also selling lots
of stuff that isn't native.

186
00:07:19,173 --> 00:07:21,642
You know, things that come
out of the mountains in China,

187
00:07:21,708 --> 00:07:24,044
you know,
hydrangeas and rhododendrons

188
00:07:24,111 --> 00:07:25,746
and all sorts of other stuff.

189
00:07:25,812 --> 00:07:28,148
So, they might not necessarily
be an invasive,

190
00:07:28,215 --> 00:07:30,284
though, if you look closely,

191
00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:34,988
that is a red barberry, and
that is considered an invasive,

192
00:07:35,055 --> 00:07:36,156
so don't plant it.

193
00:07:36,223 --> 00:07:37,824
They're illegal
in lots of states.

194
00:07:37,891 --> 00:07:40,527
I think-- Are they illegal here
yet in Wisconsin?

195
00:07:40,594 --> 00:07:42,396
Maybe not yet.

196
00:07:42,462 --> 00:07:45,032
And so, it's because the birds
eat the fruits

197
00:07:45,098 --> 00:07:46,767
and then they spread them
and then they grow.

198
00:07:46,834 --> 00:07:47,968
They grow up in the woods.

199
00:07:48,035 --> 00:07:49,436
So, it's considered an invasive.

200
00:07:49,503 --> 00:07:51,738
But the mixed shrub border idea
is all about, like,

201
00:07:51,805 --> 00:07:55,609
different heights and textures
and colors and form,

202
00:07:55,676 --> 00:07:58,011
you know, foliage and stuff
like that.

203
00:07:58,078 --> 00:08:00,214
And so, we graduate from that

204
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,884
into what we call
a habitat hedgerow.

205
00:08:03,951 --> 00:08:08,388
So, it's the concept of a hedge,
and, but it's mixed plants,

206
00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:10,657
so it's not
that traditional hedge.

207
00:08:10,724 --> 00:08:13,093
So, it's kind of like
that mixed border idea,

208
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,795
but it's all native plants.

209
00:08:14,862 --> 00:08:16,196
And actually, there's
a few other things

210
00:08:16,263 --> 00:08:17,397
that we have to think about

211
00:08:17,464 --> 00:08:18,932
when we combine
these plants together

212
00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:21,068
to form this habitat hedge.

213
00:08:21,134 --> 00:08:23,871
If it was just gonna be
a mixed native plant,

214
00:08:23,937 --> 00:08:27,107
you know, native plant hedge,
that's one version.

215
00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:28,942
And actually, that was
sort of the earlier versions

216
00:08:29,009 --> 00:08:30,110
that I would do,

217
00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:32,179
'cause I have transitioned
into doing

218
00:08:32,246 --> 00:08:33,847
more and more natives
over the years

219
00:08:33,914 --> 00:08:36,450
just because,
just due to the fact

220
00:08:36,517 --> 00:08:38,919
that they just belong
in the garden

221
00:08:38,986 --> 00:08:41,455
and there's less maintenance
and they establish better,

222
00:08:41,522 --> 00:08:43,056
and all those other good things.

223
00:08:43,123 --> 00:08:46,593
But to turn it into a habitat
hedgerow is a different idea

224
00:08:46,660 --> 00:08:48,595
where there's gonna be
more layers to it.

225
00:08:48,662 --> 00:08:50,864
So, it's not just gonna be
the shrubs.

226
00:08:50,931 --> 00:08:52,266
And the other piece
of the puzzle

227
00:08:52,332 --> 00:08:54,101
when it came to doing
all this stuff,

228
00:08:54,168 --> 00:08:56,370
is that we had to go--
'Cause for a little while,

229
00:08:56,436 --> 00:08:58,238
I was an editor
with <i>Fine Gardening</i> magazine,

230
00:08:58,305 --> 00:09:00,040
and so we had to take lots
of pictures

231
00:09:00,107 --> 00:09:01,241
of gardens and things like that.

232
00:09:01,308 --> 00:09:02,643
You may have heard about
that magazine.

233
00:09:02,709 --> 00:09:04,178
It's fairly well-known.

234
00:09:04,244 --> 00:09:08,282
And we could not-- I could
not get a picture of a garden

235
00:09:08,348 --> 00:09:11,118
that looked like this
into that magazine.

236
00:09:11,185 --> 00:09:12,886
The design director
would not allow it

237
00:09:12,953 --> 00:09:14,488
because it was messy, right?

238
00:09:14,555 --> 00:09:17,291
It was--
It's weedy, it's messy.

239
00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:19,193
It's like,
no, that's goldenrod.

240
00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:21,094
That's not weeds, right?

241
00:09:21,161 --> 00:09:24,464
And so, it was really hard
to get people to accept

242
00:09:24,531 --> 00:09:28,101
this kind of a look 'cause
they were used to this look.

243
00:09:28,168 --> 00:09:31,538
They were used to the mixed
shrub border out of England,

244
00:09:31,605 --> 00:09:33,273
Christopher Lloyd
and Gertrude Jekyll

245
00:09:33,340 --> 00:09:34,775
and all those people,
right?

246
00:09:34,842 --> 00:09:38,345
And so, the idea was, how
do we get them to accept this?

247
00:09:38,412 --> 00:09:40,547
Now, the good news is,
in recent years,

248
00:09:40,614 --> 00:09:44,284
people understand that it's
important to use native plants

249
00:09:44,351 --> 00:09:47,287
and to promote
this sort of environmental

250
00:09:47,354 --> 00:09:49,389
or sustainability factor.

251
00:09:49,456 --> 00:09:50,791
And actually, in a lot of ways,

252
00:09:50,858 --> 00:09:53,594
if there's one takeaway
that I give you in today's talk,

253
00:09:53,660 --> 00:09:55,529
it's the idea
of thinking about your garden--

254
00:09:55,596 --> 00:09:57,598
and everybody gets it now,
which is nice--

255
00:09:57,664 --> 00:09:59,900
thinking about your garden
as an ecosystem.

256
00:09:59,967 --> 00:10:01,702
Whenever you go to a lot
of these talks

257
00:10:01,768 --> 00:10:05,172
that you'll see that are being
offered at the expo,

258
00:10:05,239 --> 00:10:07,774
it's all about kind of the way
that we think about our garden.

259
00:10:07,841 --> 00:10:09,009
So, philosophically,

260
00:10:09,076 --> 00:10:11,512
it's kind of changing the way
that you look at it.

261
00:10:11,578 --> 00:10:13,747
And it's like,
it's not just decoration

262
00:10:13,814 --> 00:10:15,516
in the front of my house.

263
00:10:15,582 --> 00:10:18,118
It's, I have a little ecosystem
in the backyard, you know?

264
00:10:18,185 --> 00:10:20,721
And then, go,
like the permaculture lady.

265
00:10:20,787 --> 00:10:22,055
PermacultureWorks, right?

266
00:10:22,122 --> 00:10:24,925
We talked to her
before I came,

267
00:10:25,526 --> 00:10:27,060
before I came up here
to do this.

268
00:10:27,127 --> 00:10:28,462
And her whole backyard
in Madison,

269
00:10:28,529 --> 00:10:30,163
she's doing this,
like, permaculture thing.

270
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:32,065
And so, it's a philosophy
of gardening

271
00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:33,800
that we can take forward
and push forward.

272
00:10:33,867 --> 00:10:35,536
But this is the kind of thing

273
00:10:35,602 --> 00:10:38,705
that you could do in a more
traditional landscape scene,

274
00:10:38,772 --> 00:10:41,642
but, like, it can work
and do all the things

275
00:10:41,708 --> 00:10:43,110
that a normal hedge would do.

276
00:10:43,177 --> 00:10:45,746
Create that privacy,
do windbreaks,

277
00:10:45,812 --> 00:10:47,514
but also on top of it,

278
00:10:47,581 --> 00:10:50,817
provide habitat for birds
and other little critters,

279
00:10:50,884 --> 00:10:54,955
and especially insects
and things like that, okay?

280
00:10:55,022 --> 00:10:57,191
So, how does it really work?

281
00:10:57,257 --> 00:10:58,792
The way
that we get it to work

282
00:10:58,859 --> 00:11:01,895
is it's all about building
structural complexity.

283
00:11:01,962 --> 00:11:06,633
In other words, having a canopy,
having understory stuff

284
00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:10,437
and actually
also having that ground layer.

285
00:11:10,504 --> 00:11:11,939
So, the first couple of times

286
00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:14,174
that I did
my habitat hedgerows,

287
00:11:14,241 --> 00:11:17,477
'cause, you know, some of it
was just, like, saying,

288
00:11:17,544 --> 00:11:19,012
coming up with a new term

289
00:11:19,079 --> 00:11:22,216
and getting the client
to, like, bite on it, right?

290
00:11:22,282 --> 00:11:23,483
"It's a habitat hedgerow."

291
00:11:23,550 --> 00:11:25,085
That sounds like a cool thing,
right?

292
00:11:25,152 --> 00:11:27,888
And then,
I didn't actually,

293
00:11:27,955 --> 00:11:29,056
I didn't, like, think it--

294
00:11:29,122 --> 00:11:30,657
Like, the very first one
that I did,

295
00:11:30,724 --> 00:11:31,892
I did all shrubs.

296
00:11:31,959 --> 00:11:35,062
I just was, like, stuck closer
to the hedge idea.

297
00:11:35,128 --> 00:11:37,264
But what's really important
is you got to get the tree--

298
00:11:37,331 --> 00:11:39,399
You have to have
a small tree built into there.

299
00:11:39,466 --> 00:11:40,634
That can be very helpful.

300
00:11:40,701 --> 00:11:41,835
That's an added layer.

301
00:11:41,902 --> 00:11:45,405
Some birds will only nest
higher up, right?

302
00:11:45,472 --> 00:11:47,708
And then, the shrub layer
is gonna fill in

303
00:11:47,774 --> 00:11:48,942
underneath there.

304
00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:50,611
It's kind of
with different heights,

305
00:11:50,677 --> 00:11:52,846
different life cycles,
different flowering times.

306
00:11:52,913 --> 00:11:55,916
Different fruiting times,
that's another important factor.

307
00:11:55,983 --> 00:11:57,284
Something that fruits earlier,

308
00:11:57,351 --> 00:11:59,720
or that, maybe like
a <i>trilobum Viburnum</i>

309
00:11:59,786 --> 00:12:01,522
that holds its berries
into the winter

310
00:12:01,588 --> 00:12:02,890
'cause they don't taste
as good,

311
00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:04,057
so it takes a while

312
00:12:04,124 --> 00:12:06,727
before the critters
finally wanna eat those.

313
00:12:06,793 --> 00:12:09,796
And then, you're sort of, you
know, building that layer in.

314
00:12:09,863 --> 00:12:11,532
And then,
so I figured that out.

315
00:12:11,598 --> 00:12:13,534
I was like, "Okay,
let's work a tree in there."

316
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,838
And then, the final step
is to get that ground layer in.

317
00:12:17,905 --> 00:12:19,973
So, it really is a garden
that you're making.

318
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,042
It's not just a hedge.

319
00:12:22,109 --> 00:12:24,077
It's, we call it a hedgerow

320
00:12:24,144 --> 00:12:28,615
because the primary plant is
our shrubs and things like that.

321
00:12:28,682 --> 00:12:29,816
But at the same time,

322
00:12:29,883 --> 00:12:31,752
there are other plants
that are involved with it,

323
00:12:31,818 --> 00:12:34,054
part of the scene, okay?

324
00:12:34,621 --> 00:12:36,790
So, a diversity
of trees and shrubs

325
00:12:36,857 --> 00:12:38,792
and kind of, and dense growth
on the ground.

326
00:12:38,859 --> 00:12:41,562
And we'll get more into that
a little bit later, right?

327
00:12:41,628 --> 00:12:43,230
But this is the structure
that you're building.

328
00:12:43,297 --> 00:12:44,498
This is the kind of structure

329
00:12:44,565 --> 00:12:49,203
that you're building
to create a complete hedgerow.

330
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:50,804
So, it can look like something
like this.

331
00:12:50,871 --> 00:12:53,106
Your dense,
a dense hedgerow like this

332
00:12:53,173 --> 00:12:54,274
can be multifunctional.

333
00:12:54,341 --> 00:12:55,909
It can work for that privacy,

334
00:12:55,976 --> 00:12:58,512
it can work for windbreaks,
and it can work for wildlife.

335
00:12:58,579 --> 00:13:00,147
That's kind of what we're doing.

336
00:13:00,214 --> 00:13:01,748
So, a hedge,
typical hedge,

337
00:13:01,815 --> 00:13:03,650
though you might get, like,
a lot of birds

338
00:13:03,717 --> 00:13:05,686
to nest in some privet
or something else like that,

339
00:13:05,752 --> 00:13:08,388
but it's not gonna be
that same kind of habitat.

340
00:13:08,455 --> 00:13:10,591
They may be able to nest there
and fly in there

341
00:13:10,657 --> 00:13:13,861
and hide there and get out to
the birdbath, you know, safely,

342
00:13:13,927 --> 00:13:18,365
but they're not gonna eat it and
eat the insects that land on it

343
00:13:18,432 --> 00:13:20,701
and do all that other
good stuff.

344
00:13:20,767 --> 00:13:21,869
So, this is an example.

345
00:13:21,935 --> 00:13:23,470
I pulled this
from Donna Schmitz,

346
00:13:23,537 --> 00:13:25,772
who does landscape design.

347
00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:27,941
And this is what we call
a pollinator hedgerow.

348
00:13:28,008 --> 00:13:30,777
And what I really wanted you to
look at, not so much the plants,

349
00:13:30,844 --> 00:13:32,613
'cause at the end of this talk,

350
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,415
I'm gonna give you
some plant choices

351
00:13:35,482 --> 00:13:36,783
that you can include with it.

352
00:13:36,850 --> 00:13:38,051
So, we got to do that.

353
00:13:38,118 --> 00:13:39,920
And you're gonna take
pictures of the screen

354
00:13:39,987 --> 00:13:42,055
and all that other good stuff,
okay?

355
00:13:42,122 --> 00:13:44,358
So, that'll come,
so be patient with me.

356
00:13:44,424 --> 00:13:48,128
But a setup like this, you know,
things that look like this.

357
00:13:48,195 --> 00:13:50,731
Now, she's a designer
in the Pacific Northwest,

358
00:13:50,797 --> 00:13:52,599
so it's a different
plant palette anyways.

359
00:13:52,666 --> 00:13:54,601
But this is a scheme
that you could work with,

360
00:13:54,668 --> 00:13:56,703
with the three
decent-sized trees,

361
00:13:56,770 --> 00:13:58,205
lots of shrubs mixed in,

362
00:13:58,272 --> 00:14:00,274
and then herbaceous stuff
kind of down below.

363
00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:03,210
So, this is sort of the scheme
that you're looking for.

364
00:14:03,277 --> 00:14:06,580
And it looks a lot
like a traditional mixed border,

365
00:14:06,647 --> 00:14:09,249
but it's gonna,
what's gonna determine it,

366
00:14:09,316 --> 00:14:13,086
turn it into a habitat hedgerow
or a habitat border,

367
00:14:13,153 --> 00:14:15,589
is gonna be the plant selections
that you use,

368
00:14:15,656 --> 00:14:17,958
the plants that you use.

369
00:14:18,025 --> 00:14:20,861
This is another version
where there's some trees.

370
00:14:20,928 --> 00:14:22,362
There's a canopy tree.

371
00:14:22,429 --> 00:14:23,864
That's the bladdernut.

372
00:14:23,931 --> 00:14:26,333
And then, there's a serviceberry
and a dogwood tree

373
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,336
that are sort of what
we would call subcanopy trees.

374
00:14:29,403 --> 00:14:32,206
And it's this layering
that really makes a difference.

375
00:14:32,272 --> 00:14:34,241
Now, the good news is,
if I was teaching it

376
00:14:34,308 --> 00:14:37,110
just as a straight
garden design session here,

377
00:14:37,177 --> 00:14:39,713
I would
talk about that layering.

378
00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,748
I would describe that.

379
00:14:41,815 --> 00:14:43,750
I brought--
I did bring some of my books

380
00:14:43,817 --> 00:14:46,253
along with me today, just in
case you get interested in them.

381
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,389
And so, my first book was
a gardening skills book.

382
00:14:49,456 --> 00:14:51,458
It's called
<i>The New Gardener's Handbook.</i>

383
00:14:51,525 --> 00:14:53,126
The next book
that I have coming out

384
00:14:53,193 --> 00:14:55,529
is called <i>The New</i>
<i>Garden Designer's Handbook,</i>

385
00:14:55,596 --> 00:14:57,264
and it's the design version
of it.

386
00:14:57,331 --> 00:14:58,432
And there's a whole chapter,

387
00:14:58,498 --> 00:14:59,833
there's a whole section
of that book

388
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:01,802
that talks about canopy.

389
00:15:01,869 --> 00:15:05,672
Subcanopy, which are, like,
the smaller trees,

390
00:15:05,739 --> 00:15:08,909
understory, which are all of
your shrubs and stuff like that,

391
00:15:08,976 --> 00:15:10,511
and then the ground plants,

392
00:15:10,577 --> 00:15:13,514
and that's your
herbaceous perennials, ferns.

393
00:15:13,580 --> 00:15:15,983
Not just ground covers
that spread across the ground,

394
00:15:16,049 --> 00:15:17,317
but, like, you know,

395
00:15:17,384 --> 00:15:20,053
a six-foot grass, to me,
is a ground plant.

396
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,389
It's the herbaceous stuff
that goes underneath.

397
00:15:22,456 --> 00:15:24,558
And so, you start
designing things like that.

398
00:15:24,625 --> 00:15:26,760
That's what, a hedgerow
is gonna be built like that.

399
00:15:26,827 --> 00:15:29,363
But hedgerow also
doesn't have to be a line.

400
00:15:29,429 --> 00:15:30,531
So, look at this.

401
00:15:30,597 --> 00:15:31,698
It curves around the backyard.

402
00:15:31,765 --> 00:15:33,100
So, if you have
a small backyard,

403
00:15:33,166 --> 00:15:34,635
this could be
a little curvy thing

404
00:15:34,701 --> 00:15:36,236
that you could kind of
add in there.

405
00:15:36,303 --> 00:15:39,573
But it's about that tree,
and it's typically not--

406
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,808
It's not gonna be,
like, the 80-foot oak

407
00:15:41,875 --> 00:15:43,544
or the 60-foot maple, right?

408
00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:45,445
That's your top, top canopy.

409
00:15:45,512 --> 00:15:47,314
And so, that can function
within the garden.

410
00:15:47,381 --> 00:15:49,683
You can create it
around a tree like that,

411
00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:52,119
but you really have to get
some of these other kinds

412
00:15:52,186 --> 00:15:54,388
of mid level trees in there.

413
00:15:54,454 --> 00:15:56,690
And then also,
unless you wanna have hawks,

414
00:15:56,757 --> 00:15:59,293
you know, we have the hawks
will go up in the tall trees

415
00:15:59,359 --> 00:16:00,460
or maybe the eagle, right?

416
00:16:00,527 --> 00:16:03,297
There's a lot
of bald eagles around here.

417
00:16:03,363 --> 00:16:05,098
And then, you get down
to the shrub layer,

418
00:16:05,165 --> 00:16:06,900
and then you work down
into the ground layer.

419
00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:08,769
And it's about combining
these different plants

420
00:16:08,836 --> 00:16:10,537
in these different
sort of arrangements.

421
00:16:10,604 --> 00:16:13,607
And I did wanna show
a couple of simple plans

422
00:16:13,674 --> 00:16:16,376
that basically just give you
a sense of the kind of thing

423
00:16:16,443 --> 00:16:17,544
that you could do.

424
00:16:17,611 --> 00:16:20,047
But these could,
based upon the different species

425
00:16:20,113 --> 00:16:22,516
that would be
in this kind of a design,

426
00:16:22,583 --> 00:16:26,186
this could be a very traditional
ornamental garden, right?

427
00:16:26,253 --> 00:16:27,788
You know,
that could be a Japanese maple

428
00:16:27,855 --> 00:16:30,190
and those could be azaleas,
you know, and these could,

429
00:16:30,257 --> 00:16:32,226
you know, there could be lots
of nonnatives in it,

430
00:16:32,292 --> 00:16:34,394
and it would be a nice design.

431
00:16:34,461 --> 00:16:36,430
But if you do it
as the habitat design,

432
00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:37,931
it's gonna be
your plant selection.

433
00:16:37,998 --> 00:16:42,536
So, you kind of think about
this sort of arrangement.

434
00:16:42,603 --> 00:16:45,539
An important and
another big important piece

435
00:16:45,606 --> 00:16:48,609
of this whole thing is the way
that these native plantings,

436
00:16:48,675 --> 00:16:51,545
especially the habitat hedgerow,

437
00:16:51,612 --> 00:16:56,049
will help you create these
ecological corridors, okay?

438
00:16:56,116 --> 00:16:58,785
So, a suburban yard can
actually turn into, you know,

439
00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:00,854
so here's one version, right?

440
00:17:00,921 --> 00:17:04,191
The traditional thing
that we may have seen,

441
00:17:04,258 --> 00:17:06,193
I have to, you know,
full disclosure,

442
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:08,095
I didn't grow up
in Grandma's garden.

443
00:17:08,161 --> 00:17:10,764
I grew up on four acres of lawn,

444
00:17:10,831 --> 00:17:13,066
and it was my job
to mow the lawn.

445
00:17:13,133 --> 00:17:15,435
Tina can-- My sister can attest
to that.

446
00:17:15,502 --> 00:17:17,838
And I think that's why
I spend half of my, you know,

447
00:17:17,905 --> 00:17:19,840
most of my career
ripping out lawn

448
00:17:19,907 --> 00:17:22,509
and creating gardens
and stuff like that.

449
00:17:22,576 --> 00:17:23,911
So, you see a lot of properties

450
00:17:23,977 --> 00:17:25,946
that look like the one
on the left there, right?

451
00:17:26,013 --> 00:17:27,614
There's some trees,
maybe, you know,

452
00:17:27,681 --> 00:17:30,184
a little bit of a windbreak
on one side or another.

453
00:17:30,250 --> 00:17:32,553
And then, it's just kind of
a lot of open space.

454
00:17:32,619 --> 00:17:35,489
Now, what you could do,
which a lot of people do,

455
00:17:35,556 --> 00:17:39,359
is they turn that lawn into
a meadow or they play around,

456
00:17:39,426 --> 00:17:41,128
you know, they can,

457
00:17:41,195 --> 00:17:43,397
you know, scrape out
as much grass as they can

458
00:17:43,463 --> 00:17:45,799
and kind of turn it
into something else.

459
00:17:45,866 --> 00:17:47,601
Or they could do kind of
what we're seeing

460
00:17:47,668 --> 00:17:50,070
that in the picture
on the right-hand side,

461
00:17:50,137 --> 00:17:53,907
where they're making these,
you know, on the fringes there,

462
00:17:53,974 --> 00:17:57,511
there's these hedgerow zones
where there's a density to them.

463
00:17:57,578 --> 00:17:59,913
That's the most important thing
about a hedgerow,

464
00:17:59,980 --> 00:18:01,648
is that it's deep.

465
00:18:02,182 --> 00:18:04,818
If you're stuck with just
a three-foot stretch,

466
00:18:04,885 --> 00:18:06,186
like three-foot-wide stretch,

467
00:18:06,253 --> 00:18:07,788
it's gonna be really hard
to do it,

468
00:18:07,855 --> 00:18:09,790
and you're really
not gonna be able to do it.

469
00:18:09,857 --> 00:18:12,993
You need about six to eight feet
to twelve feet to twenty feet

470
00:18:13,060 --> 00:18:14,628
with a little depth there,

471
00:18:14,695 --> 00:18:16,430
and you really can
make it happen,

472
00:18:16,496 --> 00:18:19,333
because then you can interplant
lots of different things.

473
00:18:19,399 --> 00:18:20,734
And so, you can see
the difference

474
00:18:20,801 --> 00:18:22,536
that you come up with when,
you know,

475
00:18:22,603 --> 00:18:24,771
just the way
the property looks different.

476
00:18:24,838 --> 00:18:28,775
And the cool thing about it
is then these

477
00:18:28,842 --> 00:18:30,644
little ecological corridors

478
00:18:30,711 --> 00:18:32,913
that you're creating
in your own property

479
00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:36,216
will connect to the neighboring
properties, hopefully.

480
00:18:36,283 --> 00:18:39,086
And not, maybe not everybody,
but it's a piece of the puzzle.

481
00:18:39,152 --> 00:18:40,954
And that's really,
in a lot of ways,

482
00:18:41,021 --> 00:18:43,223
to kind of get back
to the social aspect

483
00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:44,892
of a lot of this stuff.

484
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:47,094
That's the way that we're
gonna be able to do this

485
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,262
and change things.

486
00:18:48,328 --> 00:18:49,663
You know, there's
always gonna be people

487
00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:51,064
where it's like,
"I want my lawn.

488
00:18:51,131 --> 00:18:53,534
"I got my Scotts Turf Builder,
I've got yew,

489
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,637
"and, you know,
some basic shrubs.

490
00:18:56,703 --> 00:18:58,472
"I like barberry,
so I'm gonna plant it.

491
00:18:58,539 --> 00:18:59,640
I don't care."

492
00:18:59,706 --> 00:19:00,908
You know,
and that's gonna happen.

493
00:19:00,974 --> 00:19:02,242
But, like, the more properties
that turn,

494
00:19:02,309 --> 00:19:04,611
that go from the thing
on the left,

495
00:19:04,678 --> 00:19:06,747
that turn into the thing
on the right,

496
00:19:06,813 --> 00:19:09,249
is getting us closer
to building an ecosystem

497
00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:12,252
that actually would be
what you could call self --

498
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:15,389
you know, more sustainable,
and just done right, you know?

499
00:19:15,455 --> 00:19:18,025
And then you avoid all
the chemical fertilizers

500
00:19:18,091 --> 00:19:21,028
and you add compost
and don't spray with pesticides

501
00:19:21,094 --> 00:19:23,430
and don't do all
that other stuff, right?

502
00:19:23,497 --> 00:19:24,898
But you can get there.

503
00:19:24,965 --> 00:19:27,801
And so, the habitat hedgerow is
a piece of this larger puzzle.

504
00:19:27,868 --> 00:19:30,204
'Cause you can see, they
kind of got like a meadow garden

505
00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:31,371
down by the water.

506
00:19:31,438 --> 00:19:32,906
You should definitely
never have lawn

507
00:19:32,973 --> 00:19:35,042
go right up to the edge
of the water.

508
00:19:35,108 --> 00:19:36,743
And it's a piece of the puzzle.

509
00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:38,545
So, it could be a part
of your property

510
00:19:38,612 --> 00:19:40,080
or a section of the property

511
00:19:40,147 --> 00:19:43,183
is kind of what
we're getting at here.

512
00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:44,985
And this is the look,
this is the thing.

513
00:19:45,052 --> 00:19:47,120
This is the look
that you're gonna get.

514
00:19:47,187 --> 00:19:49,122
This is the native shrubs
in the wildlife garden

515
00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:51,024
at Prairie Nursery Company.

516
00:19:51,091 --> 00:19:53,193
And so, you have to be ready
for that look.

517
00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:54,962
Now, like I said,
20 years ago,

518
00:19:55,028 --> 00:19:57,264
they weren't ready
for this look.

519
00:19:57,331 --> 00:19:59,399
The general public was
not ready to have this,

520
00:19:59,466 --> 00:20:02,302
to look at this and think that,
"I'm not on a nature hike.

521
00:20:02,369 --> 00:20:04,238
I'm in my backyard," right?

522
00:20:04,304 --> 00:20:06,406
But the good news is
we've gone past that,

523
00:20:06,473 --> 00:20:08,208
and now we can do
this kind of thing

524
00:20:08,275 --> 00:20:09,776
in the smallest little backyard.

525
00:20:09,843 --> 00:20:13,046
But there is an aesthetic to it
that you have to accept.

526
00:20:13,113 --> 00:20:15,482
And the fact
that you're in this room means

527
00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:17,818
that you're all in on it
with me, right?

528
00:20:17,885 --> 00:20:20,320
[audience laughs]
So, I don't have any lawn guys

529
00:20:20,387 --> 00:20:22,956
that I'm gonna get in an
argument with, right?

530
00:20:23,023 --> 00:20:25,759
When I tell them to leave
the leaves on the lawn, right,

531
00:20:25,826 --> 00:20:26,927
that whole bit?

532
00:20:26,994 --> 00:20:28,095
We'll get to that.

533
00:20:28,161 --> 00:20:29,963
There's a slide coming up.

534
00:20:30,030 --> 00:20:31,131
So, that's the look.

535
00:20:31,198 --> 00:20:32,733
So, let's talk about some
of the keys

536
00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,302
to designing a habitat hedgerow.

537
00:20:35,369 --> 00:20:38,372
We'll get through some plants.

538
00:20:38,438 --> 00:20:41,475
Native shrubs are the
very best at creating habitat

539
00:20:41,542 --> 00:20:45,145
for wildlife, supplying food,
cover, and nesting sites,

540
00:20:45,212 --> 00:20:46,680
even in urban
and suburban sites.

541
00:20:46,747 --> 00:20:49,550
It's all about the natives,
okay?

542
00:20:49,616 --> 00:20:52,119
These are our selections
that we need to do.

543
00:20:52,186 --> 00:20:54,021
These are the plants
that we have to grow.

544
00:20:54,087 --> 00:20:55,889
They're gonna create,
help create that habitat.

545
00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:58,158
Even a single native shrub,

546
00:20:58,225 --> 00:21:01,395
a nice big <i>Viburnum</i>
in the corner of a small lot,

547
00:21:01,461 --> 00:21:04,331
is gonna start
creating some habitat, right?

548
00:21:04,398 --> 00:21:05,933
And there are other things
that are gonna--

549
00:21:05,999 --> 00:21:07,734
You can plant other things
that are gonna attract,

550
00:21:07,801 --> 00:21:10,938
you know, swallowtails, and
they'll lay their eggs on them

551
00:21:11,004 --> 00:21:12,973
and they'll pupate
and they'll eat it.

552
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,141
You plant some milkweed.

553
00:21:14,208 --> 00:21:15,709
That's why people
like to do milkweed,

554
00:21:15,776 --> 00:21:18,378
so the monarchs will lay
their eggs.

555
00:21:18,445 --> 00:21:20,948
I did a bunch of milkweed
for somebody once,

556
00:21:21,014 --> 00:21:24,184
and then he called me,
and he took a picture,

557
00:21:24,251 --> 00:21:28,222
and there was, one of the
caterpillars was on there,

558
00:21:28,288 --> 00:21:29,389
the monarch caterpillar.

559
00:21:29,456 --> 00:21:30,791
And he's like,
"What is this thing?

560
00:21:30,858 --> 00:21:31,959
"Should I kill it?

561
00:21:32,025 --> 00:21:33,160
Should I squash it?"
[audience laughs]

562
00:21:33,227 --> 00:21:34,661
And I was like, "No!

563
00:21:34,728 --> 00:21:35,829
"What are you doing?

564
00:21:35,896 --> 00:21:36,997
That was the whole idea."

565
00:21:37,064 --> 00:21:38,232
But they're big
and they're fat.

566
00:21:38,298 --> 00:21:40,100
They look a little bit
like a hornworm

567
00:21:40,167 --> 00:21:42,436
if anybody's ever grown like,
you know, garden.

568
00:21:42,503 --> 00:21:45,272
And so, it freaked him out, and
I was like, "No, that's how--

569
00:21:45,339 --> 00:21:46,540
"Like, it's amazing.

570
00:21:46,607 --> 00:21:48,942
You got, like, 20 of 'em,
you know, so let's do it."

571
00:21:49,009 --> 00:21:50,143
So, that's,
so it's the natives

572
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:53,547
that are gonna create
that habitat.

573
00:21:54,014 --> 00:21:56,950
The shrubs are the big piece
of the habitat hedge, right?

574
00:21:57,017 --> 00:22:00,821
So, there's wild, you know,
there's meadow habitats,

575
00:22:00,888 --> 00:22:02,556
there's woodland habitats.

576
00:22:02,623 --> 00:22:04,458
The hedgerow habitat, you know,

577
00:22:04,525 --> 00:22:07,294
is primarily gonna be
our shrubs,

578
00:22:07,361 --> 00:22:10,330
though it's nice to work in that
tree, that medium-sized tree,

579
00:22:10,397 --> 00:22:12,399
and then you have to do
the lower layer.

580
00:22:12,466 --> 00:22:15,836
You get year-round interest
with flowers, fruit,

581
00:22:15,903 --> 00:22:18,372
foliage, and form, right?

582
00:22:18,872 --> 00:22:21,275
So, you'll get those
spring flowers of <i>Viburnums,</i>

583
00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:23,810
a lot of early spring bloomers
with the <i>Viburnums,</i>

584
00:22:23,877 --> 00:22:25,045
you'll get fruit from <i>Viburnum.</i>

585
00:22:25,112 --> 00:22:26,280
I'm talking a lot
about <i>Viburnums,</i>

586
00:22:26,346 --> 00:22:28,482
so it's a good choice,
however.

587
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:31,685
You'll get
some fruits later on.

588
00:22:31,752 --> 00:22:32,853
You might get really--

589
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,155
And you'll get some really good
fall color too.

590
00:22:35,222 --> 00:22:37,925
The foliage picture there is
of a <i>Fothergilla.</i>

591
00:22:37,991 --> 00:22:39,526
You guys know about <i>Fothergilla?</i>

592
00:22:39,593 --> 00:22:42,629
Some of the best fall color
in the world

593
00:22:42,696 --> 00:22:43,797
because the leaves,

594
00:22:43,864 --> 00:22:45,566
they'll even look better
than this sometimes.

595
00:22:45,632 --> 00:22:48,368
There's, like,
five colors in that one leaf.

596
00:22:48,435 --> 00:22:49,570
So, a lot of these guys

597
00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:51,538
will give you a lot
of really good color.

598
00:22:51,605 --> 00:22:54,141
And then, also you have to think
about the shape of the plant

599
00:22:54,208 --> 00:22:55,409
going through the winter.

600
00:22:55,475 --> 00:22:57,744
In general, if I was
just teaching this as a regular,

601
00:22:57,811 --> 00:23:01,215
you know, plant,
planting combo design class,

602
00:23:01,281 --> 00:23:02,382
it'd be, you know,

603
00:23:02,449 --> 00:23:06,086
always go for three-season
plants at a minimum.

604
00:23:06,153 --> 00:23:08,288
So, it has to have
three seasons of interest.

605
00:23:08,355 --> 00:23:11,191
It's a flower, there's a fruit,
and there's a leaf.

606
00:23:11,258 --> 00:23:12,993
It has a really cool form.

607
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:14,294
It doesn't bloom,

608
00:23:14,361 --> 00:23:17,497
but, you know, you get,
you know, really cool leaves,

609
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:19,766
and maybe there's a fruit
that's attached to it.

610
00:23:19,833 --> 00:23:21,301
Like the flower isn't
very significant

611
00:23:21,368 --> 00:23:22,903
or something like that.

612
00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:24,304
But you want
three-season plants.

613
00:23:24,371 --> 00:23:25,472
That's the goal.

614
00:23:25,539 --> 00:23:27,641
And you can do the same thing
in your hedgerow.

615
00:23:27,708 --> 00:23:29,443
And shrubs are what get it done.

616
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:31,545
I teach a whole shrub class too,

617
00:23:31,612 --> 00:23:33,347
but we do that one,
like, every three years.

618
00:23:33,413 --> 00:23:34,515
It's hard to get--

619
00:23:34,581 --> 00:23:36,483
There's, like, six people
that wanna do that one.

620
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:37,851
[all laugh]

621
00:23:37,918 --> 00:23:40,654
But it's fun designing
with shrubs, right?

622
00:23:40,721 --> 00:23:43,357
It's all the--
actually, let me kind of--

623
00:23:43,423 --> 00:23:46,960
I'll just throw this out there
since we're here and I got you.

624
00:23:47,027 --> 00:23:48,395
The shrubs are
actually the plants

625
00:23:48,462 --> 00:23:51,532
that you have the most intimate
relationship with in your garden

626
00:23:51,598 --> 00:23:53,767
because they're as big
as you are.

627
00:23:53,834 --> 00:23:56,170
Trees are, like, up there.

628
00:23:56,236 --> 00:23:57,704
The other stuff is down there.

629
00:23:57,771 --> 00:23:59,540
You're,
they're next to you.

630
00:23:59,606 --> 00:24:01,308
They're like your friend
standing next to you.

631
00:24:01,375 --> 00:24:04,178
So, the shrubs are important.

632
00:24:05,078 --> 00:24:06,947
Combine and layer them.

633
00:24:07,014 --> 00:24:10,150
Tight groups
are best for nesting

634
00:24:10,217 --> 00:24:12,286
and shelter and foraging.

635
00:24:12,352 --> 00:24:13,520
This is an example

636
00:24:13,587 --> 00:24:16,089
where I kind of go
the opposite of the way

637
00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:19,726
that I plant an ornamental, a
regular ornamental garden space

638
00:24:19,793 --> 00:24:23,530
where I get everything
properly spaced, you know?

639
00:24:23,597 --> 00:24:25,199
I don't overplant.

640
00:24:25,265 --> 00:24:27,768
If I'm planting another,
a <i>Viburnum</i> shrub,

641
00:24:27,835 --> 00:24:29,570
that'll be our example again,

642
00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:33,040
and it's gonna become
six feet wide,

643
00:24:33,106 --> 00:24:35,542
I make sure that the one,
anything next to it

644
00:24:35,609 --> 00:24:38,245
is three feet away, right,
so it'll space out.

645
00:24:38,312 --> 00:24:40,247
Now, it could take time
for that to fill in,

646
00:24:40,314 --> 00:24:41,648
but I can underplant
with other stuff

647
00:24:41,715 --> 00:24:43,383
and it'll kind of get there
over time.

648
00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:47,254
With a hedgerow,
especially a habitat hedgerow,

649
00:24:47,321 --> 00:24:49,089
you plant closer.

650
00:24:49,156 --> 00:24:50,824
You're better off starting
with smaller plants

651
00:24:50,891 --> 00:24:52,292
and getting them tighter in.

652
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,930
You really want that messy,
kind of combined look to it.

653
00:24:56,997 --> 00:25:00,067
So, I will tight-- I will plant
that stuff a little bit tighter

654
00:25:00,133 --> 00:25:03,270
because if I plant two spicebush
next to each other,

655
00:25:03,337 --> 00:25:05,138
they're gonna become
one big spicebush.

656
00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:06,707
They're just gonna
knit together,

657
00:25:06,773 --> 00:25:08,976
and they're gonna grow
into the rambling rose

658
00:25:09,042 --> 00:25:10,210
and stuff like that.

659
00:25:10,277 --> 00:25:12,412
So, the way that you do it
is gonna be different.

660
00:25:12,479 --> 00:25:14,381
So, tighter groups are what's
gonna make a difference.

661
00:25:14,448 --> 00:25:16,016
So, it's a little
counterintuitive

662
00:25:16,083 --> 00:25:18,018
to traditional landscaping,

663
00:25:18,085 --> 00:25:20,654
though I've known plenty
of landscape contractors

664
00:25:20,721 --> 00:25:23,790
that like to overplant
because more plants,

665
00:25:23,857 --> 00:25:25,659
you know, more money, but...

666
00:25:25,726 --> 00:25:27,861
And then, you got
to come back and edit it out

667
00:25:27,928 --> 00:25:29,730
and it's a big pain.

668
00:25:30,697 --> 00:25:32,165
Use varied sizes.

669
00:25:32,232 --> 00:25:33,700
Another fun trick.

670
00:25:33,767 --> 00:25:36,136
This, a lot of this relates
to just regular design too,

671
00:25:36,203 --> 00:25:37,971
but for the hedgerow as well.

672
00:25:38,038 --> 00:25:40,407
You know,
some four-footers.

673
00:25:40,474 --> 00:25:43,010
And this is
the mature size, right?

674
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:45,145
You want those layers
of that structure.

675
00:25:45,212 --> 00:25:46,813
So, there's some
two-foot shrubs.

676
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,715
You know, there's some <i>Linderas</i>
and spicebushes.

677
00:25:48,782 --> 00:25:51,285
There's some four-foots,
the <i>Fothergillas.</i>

678
00:25:51,351 --> 00:25:53,387
There's some 12-foots,
the <i>Viburnums.</i>

679
00:25:53,453 --> 00:25:55,422
There's stuff in between,
dogwoods.

680
00:25:55,489 --> 00:25:58,325
Pick plants with lots
of different heights and widths

681
00:25:58,392 --> 00:25:59,626
and things like that.

682
00:25:59,693 --> 00:26:01,461
Work with different sizes
so they're not--

683
00:26:01,528 --> 00:26:03,163
It's the opposite
of a traditional hedge

684
00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:06,366
where everything
kind of grows the same height.

685
00:26:06,433 --> 00:26:08,268
Because the other good news
about it,

686
00:26:08,335 --> 00:26:09,670
if, I know there was like

687
00:26:09,736 --> 00:26:14,608
a "ways to make your gardening
life easier" talk today.

688
00:26:14,675 --> 00:26:16,910
It's, I call it my
"lazy guy gardener" techniques.

689
00:26:16,977 --> 00:26:20,247
The good news about a habitat
hedgerow: no pruning.

690
00:26:20,314 --> 00:26:21,415
Don't have to prune it.

691
00:26:21,481 --> 00:26:22,583
That's another bonus.

692
00:26:22,649 --> 00:26:24,685
So, that's--
So, you mix this stuff together,

693
00:26:24,751 --> 00:26:27,855
different sizes, and the
wildlife are gonna like that.

694
00:26:27,921 --> 00:26:30,190
They're gonna like the different
levels and stuff like that

695
00:26:30,257 --> 00:26:32,693
because it'll attract
different kinds of birds

696
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:34,361
and different kinds
of critters.

697
00:26:34,428 --> 00:26:36,563
Some birds nest on the ground
and feed on the ground.

698
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:39,166
Other ones need, wanna be
up a little bit higher.

699
00:26:39,233 --> 00:26:41,568
Some wanna be way up high.

700
00:26:43,437 --> 00:26:44,605
Here's the other one.

701
00:26:44,671 --> 00:26:47,474
This is the one that I learned
on my second foray

702
00:26:47,541 --> 00:26:49,710
into creating
a habitat hedgerow,

703
00:26:49,776 --> 00:26:53,347
'cause the first time, I didn't
underplant enough.

704
00:26:53,413 --> 00:26:55,282
At all, technically.

705
00:26:55,349 --> 00:26:57,251
We came back and did it.

706
00:26:57,317 --> 00:26:58,519
Underplant with perennials.

707
00:26:58,585 --> 00:27:00,254
Surround your hedgerow
with native grasses

708
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,690
and flowering perennials
to complete the habitat.

709
00:27:03,757 --> 00:27:06,059
You have to do the ground layer.

710
00:27:06,126 --> 00:27:08,128
So, it can't be
a bunch of mulch.

711
00:27:08,195 --> 00:27:10,030
It can't be a lawn.

712
00:27:10,097 --> 00:27:14,168
It's got to be native
ground cover plants, basically.

713
00:27:14,234 --> 00:27:17,571
And at the end of the lists,
we'll see those.

714
00:27:17,638 --> 00:27:20,040
The insects
that are gonna live in there

715
00:27:20,107 --> 00:27:21,575
are gonna be food
to the birds,

716
00:27:21,642 --> 00:27:25,045
and the insects are also part of
the life that's inside of there.

717
00:27:25,112 --> 00:27:27,581
There could be toads in there
and salamanders

718
00:27:27,648 --> 00:27:29,283
and all sorts of fun stuff.

719
00:27:29,349 --> 00:27:30,817
One thing I will tell you,

720
00:27:30,884 --> 00:27:33,053
I tell this to anybody
that wants to listen to it.

721
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,256
If you have frogs and toads
in your garden,

722
00:27:36,323 --> 00:27:39,159
if you have amphibians,
you have a healthy garden.

723
00:27:39,226 --> 00:27:41,461
They're the first ones
that can get poisoned

724
00:27:41,528 --> 00:27:43,797
and get killed from,
like, some kind of contaminant

725
00:27:43,864 --> 00:27:45,532
or something going wrong.

726
00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:48,936
We have lots of little geckos
in our garden back at home

727
00:27:49,002 --> 00:27:51,538
and a little, like, I guess
that's what they're called,

728
00:27:51,605 --> 00:27:53,540
like the thing from the
insurance company or whatever.

729
00:27:53,607 --> 00:27:56,777
And they cruise around,
and I know that things are right

730
00:27:56,844 --> 00:27:59,479
because they're there
'cause the insects are there.

731
00:27:59,546 --> 00:28:01,315
If they're there,
the insects are there.

732
00:28:01,381 --> 00:28:03,717
And so, they're eating all
those guys and doing all that.

733
00:28:03,784 --> 00:28:06,787
So, they live
in that underplanting, right?

734
00:28:06,854 --> 00:28:09,389
And so, you can establish that,
and it can look nice.

735
00:28:09,456 --> 00:28:11,358
It can have cool stuff in it,

736
00:28:11,425 --> 00:28:14,094
but it can't be,
you know, a traditional <i>Vinca.</i>

737
00:28:14,161 --> 00:28:15,829
It can't be <i>Pachysandra.</i>

738
00:28:15,896 --> 00:28:18,232
I don't know if
you guys do a lot of that here.

739
00:28:18,298 --> 00:28:20,234
There's a lot of stuff
that you really can't do

740
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:21,835
'cause it's not supporting
any of the habitat.

741
00:28:21,902 --> 00:28:23,437
So, you have to work
with different plants,

742
00:28:23,504 --> 00:28:25,472
and we'll look at those.

743
00:28:25,539 --> 00:28:28,342
Underplant with perennials.

744
00:28:28,809 --> 00:28:32,045
Now, the "leaving the leaves"
bit, okay?

745
00:28:32,112 --> 00:28:34,481
So, if you're gonna leave
all that underneath,

746
00:28:34,548 --> 00:28:36,149
in a lot of respects,

747
00:28:36,216 --> 00:28:37,985
that ground cover
of perennials

748
00:28:38,051 --> 00:28:40,420
is what we would call
a living mulch.

749
00:28:40,487 --> 00:28:42,322
It's the stuff that's like,
you know,

750
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:45,559
you know, it works as mulch
on the ground, right?

751
00:28:45,626 --> 00:28:46,860
[clears throat]
The next step,

752
00:28:46,927 --> 00:28:48,695
besides just growing
that stuff on the ground

753
00:28:48,762 --> 00:28:51,298
to create that living mulch,
is to let the stuff

754
00:28:51,365 --> 00:28:54,768
that falls on the ground
stay on the ground, okay?

755
00:28:54,835 --> 00:28:56,403
Now, it can be
a little bit tricky.

756
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:58,272
There's something called
a soil food web.

757
00:28:58,338 --> 00:28:59,806
Has anybody taken a soil class

758
00:28:59,873 --> 00:29:02,009
that understands
about the soil food web?

759
00:29:02,075 --> 00:29:04,278
That's like, the soil food web

760
00:29:04,344 --> 00:29:06,013
is what breaks down
the organic matter

761
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:09,383
that falls
on your garden floor, right?

762
00:29:09,449 --> 00:29:11,685
And if you have
a very active soil food web

763
00:29:11,752 --> 00:29:13,854
with lots of little insects
and microorganisms

764
00:29:13,921 --> 00:29:16,857
and stuff like that, then it'll
break down really quickly.

765
00:29:16,924 --> 00:29:18,425
And you can tell--
You can figure out

766
00:29:18,492 --> 00:29:20,227
if your soil food web is good
by, like,

767
00:29:20,294 --> 00:29:22,196
just take some clippings
of something,

768
00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:25,699
throw it on the garden, and see
how long it takes to rot.

769
00:29:25,766 --> 00:29:28,502
If it's still there
two weeks later,

770
00:29:28,569 --> 00:29:30,404
you don't have
a very active soil food web.

771
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:32,506
Otherwise, it'll just
kind of disappear.

772
00:29:32,573 --> 00:29:34,808
And here's the other--
This is the secret.

773
00:29:34,875 --> 00:29:37,144
This is the secret
to the whole thing, right?

774
00:29:37,211 --> 00:29:40,948
And this is beyond just
habitat hedgerow.

775
00:29:41,014 --> 00:29:43,217
The way that soil science works,

776
00:29:43,283 --> 00:29:46,086
the plants need a healthy soil
to grow their best, right?

777
00:29:46,153 --> 00:29:47,254
So, you guys know that.

778
00:29:47,321 --> 00:29:48,555
That's part of the deal.

779
00:29:48,622 --> 00:29:52,626
Letting the stuff that falls off
the plants that you grow

780
00:29:52,693 --> 00:29:56,797
break down in the soil
around those plants

781
00:29:56,864 --> 00:30:00,734
creates the proper
chemistry situation of the soil

782
00:30:00,801 --> 00:30:02,503
for the roots of those plants.

783
00:30:02,569 --> 00:30:03,804
So, in other words,

784
00:30:03,871 --> 00:30:06,340
all the maple leaves
that fall around the maple tree

785
00:30:06,406 --> 00:30:09,243
are supposed to stay there
and rot.

786
00:30:09,309 --> 00:30:11,712
And that actually creates
the fungal connections

787
00:30:11,778 --> 00:30:14,982
and things like that,
whereas if you took some other,

788
00:30:15,048 --> 00:30:17,684
you know, stuff from another
kind of a tree

789
00:30:17,751 --> 00:30:20,521
and let it rot
around the base of that tree,

790
00:30:20,587 --> 00:30:22,322
it doesn't create
the same kind of chemistry

791
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:23,824
in the ground underneath.

792
00:30:23,891 --> 00:30:26,360
So, once again, less work.

793
00:30:27,494 --> 00:30:28,862
Let it all fall on the ground.

794
00:30:28,929 --> 00:30:32,165
It looks messy, that's cool,
that's your aesthetic.

795
00:30:32,232 --> 00:30:33,667
It's rotting into the soil.

796
00:30:33,734 --> 00:30:35,335
But you do have to set things up

797
00:30:35,402 --> 00:30:37,137
and get that soil food web
up and running.

798
00:30:37,204 --> 00:30:38,772
Otherwise, you can
just end up with, like,

799
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,375
a lot of detritus
that doesn't break down.

800
00:30:41,441 --> 00:30:43,243
And so, maybe
for the first few years,

801
00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:45,312
if you don't have good soil,

802
00:30:45,379 --> 00:30:47,981
you'll need to take some of
that out and compost it

803
00:30:48,048 --> 00:30:49,516
and then bring it back.

804
00:30:49,583 --> 00:30:52,186
But ultimately, you wanna
leave this stuff, right?

805
00:30:52,252 --> 00:30:53,353
It's an essential part,

806
00:30:53,420 --> 00:30:55,088
and it's also
an essential part of continuing

807
00:30:55,155 --> 00:30:58,559
to create that ecosystem,
it says on the slide, right?

808
00:30:58,625 --> 00:31:00,928
It's home for the insects.

809
00:31:00,994 --> 00:31:02,729
It's home for the salamanders

810
00:31:02,796 --> 00:31:04,698
and the toads
and stuff like that.

811
00:31:04,765 --> 00:31:08,001
So, you leave the leaves, so
you don't have to take 'em out.

812
00:31:08,068 --> 00:31:11,071
Now, maybe somebody's
sitting there and thinking,

813
00:31:11,138 --> 00:31:13,574
"What about my oak leaves?"
right?

814
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,275
Oak leaves
don't break down as quickly.

815
00:31:15,342 --> 00:31:17,811
So, it takes, like, three years
sometimes for an oak leaf.

816
00:31:17,878 --> 00:31:21,148
So, I often remove a good
portion of the oak leaves

817
00:31:21,215 --> 00:31:23,317
and let--
and compost it somewhere else

818
00:31:23,383 --> 00:31:24,885
and use it elsewhere.

819
00:31:24,952 --> 00:31:26,320
So, that's the one exception.

820
00:31:26,386 --> 00:31:29,423
But otherwise, maple leaf, it'll
rot by the end of the winter.

821
00:31:29,489 --> 00:31:30,591
Doesn't matter.

822
00:31:30,657 --> 00:31:31,992
So, you don't have to rake all--

823
00:31:32,059 --> 00:31:33,927
Even if it's, like,
three-foot pile,

824
00:31:33,994 --> 00:31:37,030
it becomes a four-foot--
a four-inch pile

825
00:31:37,097 --> 00:31:38,265
by the end of the year.

826
00:31:38,332 --> 00:31:41,368
Just let it happen one year
and see what happens.

827
00:31:41,435 --> 00:31:45,339
Definitely in your garden beds,
that's what you should be doing.

828
00:31:45,405 --> 00:31:48,375
It's home to all those insects
and nesting birds,

829
00:31:48,442 --> 00:31:50,310
so it's part of the process.

830
00:31:50,377 --> 00:31:52,246
Leaving the stuff
that falls off the plants

831
00:31:52,312 --> 00:31:55,349
is part of the care
of that garden.

832
00:31:55,415 --> 00:31:57,551
So, if I was to say,
"You need to prune this

833
00:31:57,618 --> 00:32:00,120
and you need to feed that
and you need to do that,"

834
00:32:00,187 --> 00:32:04,291
well, take this advice
in the same way, right?

835
00:32:04,358 --> 00:32:07,694
And so, I talk about, a lot
about the how-tos of gardening,

836
00:32:07,761 --> 00:32:09,296
but the way
that I teach gardening

837
00:32:09,363 --> 00:32:10,531
and talk about gardening

838
00:32:10,597 --> 00:32:14,434
is I explain
the why-dos of the how-tos.

839
00:32:14,501 --> 00:32:16,270
I was given that one
by Joe Gardener--

840
00:32:16,336 --> 00:32:18,672
Joe the Gar--
Joe Lamp'l, right?

841
00:32:18,739 --> 00:32:21,208
I was on his podcast once,
and he came up with that,

842
00:32:21,275 --> 00:32:22,809
and I was like, "Dude,
I'm stealing that.

843
00:32:22,876 --> 00:32:24,011
I'm gonna use it."

844
00:32:24,077 --> 00:32:25,612
He got where he got
for a reason.

845
00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:27,247
He knows
how to set that stuff up.

846
00:32:27,314 --> 00:32:29,249
But that's really the way
to think about this stuff.

847
00:32:29,316 --> 00:32:31,051
So, when I tell you
to leave the leaves,

848
00:32:31,118 --> 00:32:33,453
I want you to understand why
I want you to leave 'em.

849
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,088
And it's because
it's gonna improve your soil,

850
00:32:35,155 --> 00:32:36,723
it's gonna improve
the habitat of the hedgerow

851
00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:38,792
and things like that.

852
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:41,361
And they are gonna continue

853
00:32:41,428 --> 00:32:44,498
to improve the ground
underneath, right?

854
00:32:44,565 --> 00:32:47,100
Just leaf litter does it.

855
00:32:47,167 --> 00:32:49,736
But the pieces of the plants
that fall down, you know,

856
00:32:49,803 --> 00:32:51,305
hopefully nobody here
is cutting back

857
00:32:51,371 --> 00:32:53,473
their perennial garden
in the fall, right?

858
00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:55,843
You're not supposed to do that.

859
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:58,946
But, you know, and a lot of
it'll rot away over the winter.

860
00:32:59,012 --> 00:33:01,548
And then if there's, like,
dry stalks that are poking up,

861
00:33:01,615 --> 00:33:04,318
you know, in the springtime,
you come and cut those down.

862
00:33:04,384 --> 00:33:05,986
You can take those away.

863
00:33:06,053 --> 00:33:08,188
But that detritus layer
is important,

864
00:33:08,255 --> 00:33:09,890
and it actually feeds the soil

865
00:33:09,957 --> 00:33:12,092
and makes the soil better
over time.

866
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:14,194
It can take years
if you don't have good soil.

867
00:33:14,261 --> 00:33:16,730
If it's been
the Scotts Turf Builder program

868
00:33:16,797 --> 00:33:18,198
for the last 30 years

869
00:33:18,265 --> 00:33:19,800
and now you're gonna
rip out the lawn

870
00:33:19,867 --> 00:33:21,268
and start making a garden.

871
00:33:21,335 --> 00:33:23,670
But you got to build it up.

872
00:33:26,373 --> 00:33:28,075
Quick tips
for choosing the plants,

873
00:33:28,141 --> 00:33:31,445
and then we'll
actually get to the plants.

874
00:33:31,512 --> 00:33:33,514
Broad-bottomed shrubs
and dense-branched trees

875
00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:35,816
are the perfect choice
for your hedgerows.

876
00:33:35,883 --> 00:33:38,785
So, not tall, leggy guys, right?

877
00:33:38,852 --> 00:33:42,189
The things that sucker
are gonna be even better.

878
00:33:42,256 --> 00:33:43,724
Things that grow a lot
of suckers

879
00:33:43,790 --> 00:33:45,492
out of the ground, right?

880
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:46,727
Broad bottoms

881
00:33:46,793 --> 00:33:48,996
because the birds can flit
inside, in and out of 'em.

882
00:33:49,062 --> 00:33:51,698
They'll knit together
better as a group,

883
00:33:51,765 --> 00:33:52,866
so they just work better.

884
00:33:52,933 --> 00:33:54,268
So, you're kind of
going for those.

885
00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:56,670
So, not like tall,
kind of spindly things.

886
00:33:56,737 --> 00:34:00,140
You know, Carolina allspice,
which is a great shrub, right?

887
00:34:00,207 --> 00:34:02,376
Tina's died, unfortunately,
in her garden.

888
00:34:02,442 --> 00:34:05,012
But that's a little rangy
and leggy, right?

889
00:34:05,078 --> 00:34:07,881
It doesn't really grow densely.

890
00:34:07,948 --> 00:34:09,216
It's a great plant.

891
00:34:09,283 --> 00:34:11,418
You can grow it in the shade
and they're really pretty,

892
00:34:11,485 --> 00:34:13,086
but you wanna go
with broad-based shrubs

893
00:34:13,153 --> 00:34:16,089
and densely-branched trees.

894
00:34:16,156 --> 00:34:18,225
So, not like, oftentimes--
There was a picture

895
00:34:18,292 --> 00:34:20,027
of a pagoda dogwood
on that plan.

896
00:34:20,093 --> 00:34:22,029
That's really
not the best choice

897
00:34:22,095 --> 00:34:24,731
'cause they end up creating,
like, an open canopy, right?

898
00:34:24,798 --> 00:34:26,633
You want the dense, messy canopy

899
00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:31,505
'cause that's what the birds
feel safer in that one.

900
00:34:31,572 --> 00:34:33,807
Ramblers,
like wild rose.

901
00:34:33,874 --> 00:34:36,009
Things that, like, travel

902
00:34:36,076 --> 00:34:38,612
and move through
the other stuff.

903
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,048
So, pick those kind of guys.

904
00:34:41,114 --> 00:34:44,184
The whole idea is that it's
gonna be, like, a tangled mess,

905
00:34:44,251 --> 00:34:46,620
and that's what
you're going for, okay?

906
00:34:46,687 --> 00:34:49,423
That's what's gonna work
as a habitat.

907
00:34:49,489 --> 00:34:52,125
And if you do the right
combination of plants,

908
00:34:52,192 --> 00:34:54,394
and you can still think it
through as a design,

909
00:34:54,461 --> 00:34:55,762
still plan on it.

910
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:57,164
It's like,
this is gonna bloom then,

911
00:34:57,231 --> 00:34:58,765
and this is gonna
look like that then.

912
00:34:58,832 --> 00:35:01,702
And it's kind of, spread those
across the length of it,

913
00:35:01,768 --> 00:35:05,005
so you can kind of treat it
like a traditional design,

914
00:35:05,072 --> 00:35:06,940
but you're gonna
let it become a mess.

915
00:35:07,007 --> 00:35:08,976
You're on purpose
making it a mess.

916
00:35:09,042 --> 00:35:10,344
That's kind of the deal.

917
00:35:10,410 --> 00:35:12,346
So, that's nice too, right?

918
00:35:12,412 --> 00:35:16,083
But like I said, you have to
like what it looks like.

919
00:35:16,149 --> 00:35:17,885
So, maybe it's not
in the front yard.

920
00:35:17,951 --> 00:35:20,387
Though I have done this kind
of stuff in front yards.

921
00:35:20,454 --> 00:35:23,156
It takes a little convincing
sometimes.

922
00:35:23,223 --> 00:35:25,192
Vines growing into trees.

923
00:35:25,259 --> 00:35:27,194
There are some good
native vines.

924
00:35:27,261 --> 00:35:28,629
What was the permaculture
woman talking--

925
00:35:28,695 --> 00:35:31,231
She was talking
about the kiwi vine, right?

926
00:35:31,298 --> 00:35:33,033
So, you could
just grow it up a tree.

927
00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:34,868
It's just added complexity.

928
00:35:34,935 --> 00:35:36,236
It's added cover.

929
00:35:36,303 --> 00:35:37,838
So, just plant it next
to the tree

930
00:35:37,905 --> 00:35:39,239
and let it shoot up into it.

931
00:35:39,306 --> 00:35:41,775
It's just gonna add
something to it.

932
00:35:41,842 --> 00:35:46,380
Just more biodiversity
for the whole collection.

933
00:35:46,446 --> 00:35:47,981
And it really can be
kind of fun.

934
00:35:48,048 --> 00:35:51,185
You could sort of, like,
just goof around

935
00:35:51,251 --> 00:35:52,786
and see what you come up with,
right?

936
00:35:52,853 --> 00:35:55,189
Come up with your own combos,
come up with your own designs.

937
00:35:55,255 --> 00:35:56,924
Stick to natives.

938
00:35:57,257 --> 00:35:58,425
Create all three layers.

939
00:35:58,492 --> 00:35:59,660
See what happens.

940
00:35:59,726 --> 00:36:01,395
If there's, like, a sparse area

941
00:36:01,461 --> 00:36:03,163
where you don't see
anything happening,

942
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:05,199
just go get a two-gallon shrub
somewhere,

943
00:36:05,265 --> 00:36:07,201
put it in there,
and add it to it, right?

944
00:36:07,267 --> 00:36:08,368
And build it.

945
00:36:08,435 --> 00:36:10,170
You might not get it
right off the bat.

946
00:36:10,237 --> 00:36:11,471
It might not happen right away.

947
00:36:11,538 --> 00:36:13,874
You might have to tweak it
as you go, but just keep--

948
00:36:13,941 --> 00:36:15,242
And then add a vine in.

949
00:36:15,309 --> 00:36:18,645
You know, just sort of play
around with it a little bit.

950
00:36:18,712 --> 00:36:20,781
So, let's get to the plants
because here's the,

951
00:36:20,848 --> 00:36:23,650
here's the money,
these are the money slides.

952
00:36:23,717 --> 00:36:25,452
There's more, much, much,

953
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:27,554
many, many more plants
than these

954
00:36:27,621 --> 00:36:30,424
that you can use
in a habitat hedgerow.

955
00:36:30,490 --> 00:36:31,859
It's basically any native.

956
00:36:31,925 --> 00:36:33,594
But these are the ones
that I have,

957
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:35,128
I've worked with myself
personally

958
00:36:35,195 --> 00:36:37,130
and I think are especially good.

959
00:36:37,197 --> 00:36:41,101
So, get your phones out
and take pictures.

960
00:36:41,702 --> 00:36:43,370
The trees.

961
00:36:43,704 --> 00:36:46,406
Hackberry,
love hackberries.

962
00:36:46,473 --> 00:36:48,876
I only really see them
in the Midwest.

963
00:36:48,942 --> 00:36:52,246
They would be native where I did
a lot of my work in,

964
00:36:52,312 --> 00:36:54,548
out in the East,
but they really don't use them.

965
00:36:54,615 --> 00:36:56,083
But I see them more often here.

966
00:36:56,149 --> 00:37:00,320
It's a Wisconsin tree
that people will grow.

967
00:37:00,387 --> 00:37:01,622
Wide range of soil,

968
00:37:01,688 --> 00:37:04,224
so it can take really crappy
soil, even if,

969
00:37:04,291 --> 00:37:05,626
you know, and still work.

970
00:37:05,692 --> 00:37:07,828
Full sun, part shade.
zone 3 to 9.

971
00:37:07,895 --> 00:37:09,396
So, you guys are good for that.

972
00:37:09,463 --> 00:37:10,564
Hackberries are a good one.

973
00:37:10,631 --> 00:37:11,999
It does make a fruit,

974
00:37:12,065 --> 00:37:16,870
and it's a good kind of
nesting tree for the birds.

975
00:37:16,937 --> 00:37:20,374
It's not a fruit
that you're gonna eat.

976
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,708
The old serviceberry.

977
00:37:21,775 --> 00:37:24,111
You guys know about
<i>Amelanchiers,</i> right?

978
00:37:24,178 --> 00:37:25,279
Ten to twenty-five feet.

979
00:37:25,345 --> 00:37:26,880
Really depends on the species
that you get.

980
00:37:26,947 --> 00:37:28,982
There's a lot
of different species out there.

981
00:37:29,049 --> 00:37:32,119
Moist, well-drained,
kind of variable soil.

982
00:37:32,186 --> 00:37:34,388
It doesn't
want to sit in wet soil,

983
00:37:34,454 --> 00:37:36,523
so not on the edge of the pond.

984
00:37:36,590 --> 00:37:38,492
But it doesn't really like,

985
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,227
they don't really like
to dry out either,

986
00:37:40,294 --> 00:37:42,696
so you got to be
a little bit careful with that.

987
00:37:42,763 --> 00:37:43,864
It has to be well-drained.

988
00:37:43,931 --> 00:37:45,632
It doesn't wanna sit in water.

989
00:37:45,699 --> 00:37:48,435
Full sun to part shade,
depending on the species.

990
00:37:48,502 --> 00:37:51,538
And the zone, 2 to 8,
is dependent upon the species,

991
00:37:51,605 --> 00:37:53,607
but there's a lot of different
serviceberries out there,

992
00:37:53,674 --> 00:37:55,175
<i>Amelanchiers,</i>
that you could use.

993
00:37:55,242 --> 00:37:57,344
Kind of
a medium-sized tree.

994
00:37:57,411 --> 00:37:59,146
We often get them multistem,

995
00:37:59,213 --> 00:38:01,048
though I've planted them
as single stem.

996
00:38:01,114 --> 00:38:04,852
It could be your one tree
as a single trunk,

997
00:38:04,918 --> 00:38:06,353
but you can also get
multistem ones,

998
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:08,755
and nice flower in the spring,
and then they make fruits

999
00:38:08,822 --> 00:38:10,624
and the birds hang out
in 'em a lot.

1000
00:38:10,691 --> 00:38:13,727
Good form
for the winter garden.

1001
00:38:13,794 --> 00:38:15,329
Nice branching
and stuff like that.

1002
00:38:15,395 --> 00:38:17,865
So, it adds
to the winter garden.

1003
00:38:17,931 --> 00:38:19,066
Black gum.

1004
00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:20,334
This is one of my favorite.

1005
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,435
Wet spot?

1006
00:38:21,502 --> 00:38:22,603
No problem.

1007
00:38:22,669 --> 00:38:24,404
Plant a black gum.

1008
00:38:24,471 --> 00:38:26,974
Thirty to fifty feet,
so this is a bigger tree.

1009
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,977
It'll grow faster
if it's wetter.

1010
00:38:30,043 --> 00:38:31,578
It can take a lot
of different soils,

1011
00:38:31,645 --> 00:38:32,980
but it really does like
wet soils.

1012
00:38:33,046 --> 00:38:36,817
I've used it on the edges of
wetlands and things like that.

1013
00:38:36,884 --> 00:38:38,151
Full sun, part shade.

1014
00:38:38,218 --> 00:38:39,953
So, you know, not full shade.

1015
00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:43,090
It's not a forest tree,
under the forest tree.

1016
00:38:43,156 --> 00:38:45,058
And then, zone 3 to 9.

1017
00:38:45,425 --> 00:38:46,960
I don't
have it in the picture here,

1018
00:38:47,027 --> 00:38:49,463
but totally awesome
fall color.

1019
00:38:49,530 --> 00:38:51,965
Scarlet red,
like really good reds.

1020
00:38:52,032 --> 00:38:53,867
So, a great, really pretty tree.

1021
00:38:53,934 --> 00:38:56,570
If you got a wet spot,
a spot where the ground

1022
00:38:56,637 --> 00:38:58,539
just doesn't drain,

1023
00:38:59,206 --> 00:39:01,175
start your garden right there
with a black gum.

1024
00:39:01,241 --> 00:39:03,110
That's another way
to think about design.

1025
00:39:03,177 --> 00:39:05,979
Start with the tree,
think about the shrubs,

1026
00:39:06,046 --> 00:39:07,281
get in the ground layer.

1027
00:39:07,347 --> 00:39:10,784
So, a single tree can be
the beginning of a whole design.

1028
00:39:10,851 --> 00:39:12,519
Love black gums.

1029
00:39:13,353 --> 00:39:14,454
Eastern red cedar.

1030
00:39:14,521 --> 00:39:15,622
So, here's the evergreen.

1031
00:39:15,689 --> 00:39:17,558
These guys are tough.

1032
00:39:17,624 --> 00:39:19,059
Thirty to sixty feet.

1033
00:39:19,126 --> 00:39:20,694
I've never seen a 60-footer.

1034
00:39:20,761 --> 00:39:23,430
Dry to moist, well-drained.

1035
00:39:23,830 --> 00:39:25,098
Full sun, part shade.

1036
00:39:25,165 --> 00:39:26,266
Two to nine.

1037
00:39:26,333 --> 00:39:28,068
Zone 2 to 9,
you can grow that one.

1038
00:39:28,135 --> 00:39:29,503
That's super hardy.

1039
00:39:29,570 --> 00:39:31,638
You know, they're not
the prettiest evergreen,

1040
00:39:31,705 --> 00:39:32,906
but they're super durable.

1041
00:39:32,973 --> 00:39:34,308
And the birds
are gonna love it.

1042
00:39:34,374 --> 00:39:36,510
They're gonna hang out in there
and go back and forth,

1043
00:39:36,577 --> 00:39:37,744
and they'll eat the fruit.

1044
00:39:37,811 --> 00:39:39,947
They eat the berries,
or the drupes, technically,

1045
00:39:40,013 --> 00:39:42,516
and kind of dig it that way.

1046
00:39:42,583 --> 00:39:47,821
So, they're very useful
in that respect, and very hardy.

1047
00:39:48,789 --> 00:39:52,192
That's what I got for trees,
though there are more.

1048
00:39:52,259 --> 00:39:54,394
What about the shrubs?

1049
00:39:55,362 --> 00:39:57,798
Red chokeberry, <i>Aronia.</i>

1050
00:39:57,865 --> 00:39:59,299
That's a good one.

1051
00:39:59,366 --> 00:40:01,835
That's like a, you know, sort of
medium size, six to ten feet.

1052
00:40:01,902 --> 00:40:03,337
They can get big.

1053
00:40:03,403 --> 00:40:04,571
Heavy clay.

1054
00:40:04,638 --> 00:40:05,806
We got that around here.

1055
00:40:05,873 --> 00:40:07,474
Some of you
might have clay soils.

1056
00:40:07,541 --> 00:40:09,543
It'll do okay, do fine.

1057
00:40:09,610 --> 00:40:12,312
And wet, so they like wet,
they like it wet.

1058
00:40:12,379 --> 00:40:15,849
So, you got some weird ditch
or something like that,

1059
00:40:15,916 --> 00:40:17,351
use these guys.

1060
00:40:17,417 --> 00:40:20,888
Great fall color, as we can see,
lots of berries.

1061
00:40:20,954 --> 00:40:24,224
So, that's a season,
that's a season, right?

1062
00:40:24,291 --> 00:40:26,293
Full sun, part shade,
zone 4 to 9.

1063
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,694
So, you can grow these guys.

1064
00:40:27,761 --> 00:40:30,063
That's one of your,
like, medium-sized ones

1065
00:40:30,130 --> 00:40:31,798
mixing in there.

1066
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,304
The old elderberry,
American elderberry.

1067
00:40:37,371 --> 00:40:39,306
These are funky,
but look at the fruits.

1068
00:40:39,373 --> 00:40:40,507
Wow.

1069
00:40:40,574 --> 00:40:41,675
These get, like, rangy.

1070
00:40:41,742 --> 00:40:43,143
This is gonna be,
like, a weaver.

1071
00:40:43,210 --> 00:40:44,311
Kind of like the rose.

1072
00:40:44,378 --> 00:40:45,979
They'll reach
into the other plants.

1073
00:40:46,046 --> 00:40:47,314
That's what they're gonna do.

1074
00:40:47,381 --> 00:40:49,816
If you've seen elderberry
in the woods, you've seen that.

1075
00:40:49,883 --> 00:40:51,552
Average the somewhat wet.

1076
00:40:51,618 --> 00:40:55,189
Not dry soil,
but also not soaked soil.

1077
00:40:55,255 --> 00:40:57,057
That whole mystery soil
of, like,

1078
00:40:57,124 --> 00:40:58,792
moist, fertile,
well-drained soil

1079
00:40:58,859 --> 00:41:00,227
that you read about
in the magazines,

1080
00:41:00,294 --> 00:41:02,629
Where is that stuff, right?
[audience laughs]

1081
00:41:02,696 --> 00:41:04,364
You have to make it.

1082
00:41:04,431 --> 00:41:06,567
That's the, sorry,
you have to make it.

1083
00:41:06,633 --> 00:41:09,536
But with our native plantings,
we are matching plants to soil.

1084
00:41:09,603 --> 00:41:11,972
That's why I'm telling you
the kind of soil that it likes.

1085
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:13,373
That's sustainable gardening.

1086
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,708
That's working with natives.

1087
00:41:14,775 --> 00:41:16,410
What kind of soil do I have?

1088
00:41:16,476 --> 00:41:17,578
What plants grow there?

1089
00:41:17,644 --> 00:41:18,745
That's the trick.

1090
00:41:18,812 --> 00:41:20,080
Full sun to part shade.

1091
00:41:20,147 --> 00:41:21,715
Don't get the cultivars.

1092
00:41:21,782 --> 00:41:23,217
Don't get
the cultivated varieties.

1093
00:41:23,283 --> 00:41:25,586
There's a really pretty one
that has purple foliage

1094
00:41:25,652 --> 00:41:29,857
and a really nice pink flower,
but the birds don't like it,

1095
00:41:29,923 --> 00:41:33,427
it doesn't fruit, and it dies,
like, after three years.

1096
00:41:33,493 --> 00:41:34,595
It doesn't work, so...

1097
00:41:34,661 --> 00:41:35,963
But it's cool,
it's really cool.

1098
00:41:36,029 --> 00:41:38,632
Mine died, like, three times,
and then I would cut it back,

1099
00:41:38,699 --> 00:41:40,934
it would come back,
and then it finally croaked.

1100
00:41:41,001 --> 00:41:42,102
But I was actually--

1101
00:41:42,169 --> 00:41:45,205
This was somewhere warmer
than where you guys are.

1102
00:41:45,272 --> 00:41:46,373
Straight species.

1103
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,108
<i>Sambucus canadensis</i> .

1104
00:41:48,175 --> 00:41:50,511
There are some rules
to the native stuffs where

1105
00:41:50,577 --> 00:41:54,147
you wanna stay as close to
the straight species as you can.

1106
00:41:54,214 --> 00:41:55,616
But there is a concept

1107
00:41:55,682 --> 00:41:57,818
that you may have heard in the,
may have heard somewhere.

1108
00:41:57,885 --> 00:41:59,086
It's called a nativar.

1109
00:41:59,152 --> 00:42:01,088
Have you heard of a nativar?

1110
00:42:01,154 --> 00:42:03,824
And that's a native species,

1111
00:42:04,258 --> 00:42:07,294
but it's a cultivated variety
of a native, right?

1112
00:42:07,361 --> 00:42:09,963
So, there's lots of
coneflowers, for example.

1113
00:42:10,030 --> 00:42:11,665
<i>Echinacea purpurea</i> ,
the coneflower,

1114
00:42:11,732 --> 00:42:13,166
is a native,
is a native plant,

1115
00:42:13,233 --> 00:42:15,569
but there are lots
of cultivated varieties of that.

1116
00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:18,005
And it depends on
how pure you're gonna be.

1117
00:42:18,071 --> 00:42:19,573
You know,
you can be totally pure

1118
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,010
and only full, straight-on
native species, and go that way.

1119
00:42:23,076 --> 00:42:24,845
Or you can play around
and mix in

1120
00:42:24,912 --> 00:42:27,414
some cultivated varieties
of the native,

1121
00:42:27,481 --> 00:42:29,483
of the native plants.

1122
00:42:29,816 --> 00:42:30,918
Witch-hazel.

1123
00:42:30,984 --> 00:42:33,687
Everybody loves a witch-hazel.

1124
00:42:33,754 --> 00:42:36,190
This is like an understory tree
in a forest.

1125
00:42:36,256 --> 00:42:39,393
This is another one
that gets a little rangy,

1126
00:42:39,459 --> 00:42:44,031
but sometimes it's more
like shrub size than tree size.

1127
00:42:44,097 --> 00:42:46,366
Moist, well-drained,
can tolerate drought.

1128
00:42:46,433 --> 00:42:49,203
Full sun, part shade,
3 to 9, species dependent.

1129
00:42:49,269 --> 00:42:50,537
There's <i>virginiana.</i>

1130
00:42:50,604 --> 00:42:52,573
There's <i>vernalis,</i> which blooms

1131
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:56,410
in the late, late winter,
really, earliest spring.

1132
00:42:56,476 --> 00:42:59,646
These are the guys, they can
start blooming in February,

1133
00:42:59,713 --> 00:43:00,814
which is really cool.

1134
00:43:00,881 --> 00:43:03,116
And the flowers are
actually quite fragrant.

1135
00:43:03,183 --> 00:43:04,351
They're really fragrant,

1136
00:43:04,418 --> 00:43:06,854
but you really got to,
like, put your nose in it.

1137
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,223
And this is another good choice,
another good native choice.

1138
00:43:09,289 --> 00:43:10,591
It's really about the flowers.

1139
00:43:10,657 --> 00:43:12,726
And then, the fall color
is pretty good too.

1140
00:43:12,793 --> 00:43:14,328
But it's a tough plant.

1141
00:43:14,394 --> 00:43:15,829
I like witch hazels.

1142
00:43:15,896 --> 00:43:19,032
Once again, but on these ones, I
avoid the cultivated varieties.

1143
00:43:19,099 --> 00:43:21,134
There's a lot of cool fancy ones
out there

1144
00:43:21,201 --> 00:43:22,970
with really great flowers,

1145
00:43:23,036 --> 00:43:25,372
and they just don't support
the habitat the same way

1146
00:43:25,439 --> 00:43:27,574
that the other ones do.

1147
00:43:29,476 --> 00:43:31,178
<i>Lindera,</i> northern spicebush.

1148
00:43:31,245 --> 00:43:34,381
You got a wet spot,
these are the--

1149
00:43:34,982 --> 00:43:36,817
I don't see 'em get
15 feet tall.

1150
00:43:36,884 --> 00:43:39,853
You probably seen them
in the woods all over the place.

1151
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,456
They kind of grow
in the understory, right?

1152
00:43:42,523 --> 00:43:44,191
Zone 5 to 9.

1153
00:43:45,025 --> 00:43:48,262
It's not an attractive shrub,
but it's a habitat shrub.

1154
00:43:48,328 --> 00:43:49,429
Put it that way.

1155
00:43:49,496 --> 00:43:52,466
It's not pretty,
but it's helpful.

1156
00:43:53,901 --> 00:43:56,370
I like to plant spicebush.

1157
00:43:57,171 --> 00:43:58,839
Buttonbush.

1158
00:43:59,406 --> 00:44:00,908
That one's a cool one,
cool flower.

1159
00:44:00,974 --> 00:44:02,075
Moist to wet.

1160
00:44:02,142 --> 00:44:03,277
This is a wet soil area.

1161
00:44:03,343 --> 00:44:04,444
So, once again, you know,

1162
00:44:04,511 --> 00:44:06,046
the perfect place
to do a habitat hedge

1163
00:44:06,113 --> 00:44:08,015
would be in some sort of ditch.

1164
00:44:08,081 --> 00:44:11,618
That would work out great if you
had something going on like that

1165
00:44:11,685 --> 00:44:13,854
or wherever you got
something else.

1166
00:44:13,921 --> 00:44:15,189
Full sun, part shade.

1167
00:44:15,255 --> 00:44:16,924
Zone 5 to 9.

1168
00:44:18,592 --> 00:44:21,695
So, you're on the edge
of that, right?

1169
00:44:21,762 --> 00:44:23,564
You guys are okay.

1170
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:25,699
It's when you get up
into Minneapolis and Duluth

1171
00:44:25,766 --> 00:44:27,868
that your plant palette
just, like, goes to hell.

1172
00:44:27,935 --> 00:44:30,637
You can plant crab apples.

1173
00:44:30,704 --> 00:44:32,439
You know, that's, like, it.
That's, like, it.

1174
00:44:32,506 --> 00:44:34,041
I sent my friend who,
for his wedding,

1175
00:44:34,107 --> 00:44:35,475
I sent him a crab apple tree

1176
00:44:35,542 --> 00:44:36,944
when he got married.
[audience laughs]

1177
00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:38,812
He lives in Duluth.

1178
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,315
The old <i>Viburnum.</i>

1179
00:44:41,381 --> 00:44:42,649
Love the <i>Viburnums.</i>

1180
00:44:42,716 --> 00:44:45,052
If you're
not planting <i>Viburnums</i> already,

1181
00:44:45,118 --> 00:44:46,954
what is, what's going on?

1182
00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:48,322
You should be planting them.

1183
00:44:48,388 --> 00:44:49,990
There's so many different ones.

1184
00:44:50,057 --> 00:44:51,191
A lot of them are native.

1185
00:44:51,258 --> 00:44:52,359
Most-- a lot of natives.

1186
00:44:52,426 --> 00:44:54,261
Not all of 'em are natives.

1187
00:44:54,328 --> 00:44:56,263
The <i>sieboldii,</i> for example,
I don't think is a native.

1188
00:44:56,330 --> 00:44:58,198
But from two to thirty feet.

1189
00:44:58,265 --> 00:45:01,001
They can be really big,
they can be tiny.

1190
00:45:01,068 --> 00:45:03,370
I love the <i>trilobums,</i>
<i>Viburnum trilobum.</i>

1191
00:45:03,437 --> 00:45:06,139
That's the one that's
on the right here.

1192
00:45:06,206 --> 00:45:07,374
The big fat fruits.

1193
00:45:07,441 --> 00:45:09,109
They call it, like,
a cranberry <i>Viburnum,</i>

1194
00:45:09,176 --> 00:45:10,410
I think, sometimes.

1195
00:45:10,477 --> 00:45:13,480
Those fruits will persist
into the winter and it'll,

1196
00:45:13,547 --> 00:45:16,216
it's, like, for some late food
for the birds.

1197
00:45:16,283 --> 00:45:17,751
So, it's really good.

1198
00:45:17,818 --> 00:45:19,920
Basically, because there's so
many different kinds out there,

1199
00:45:19,987 --> 00:45:22,456
there's a wide range of soils,
types that it's gonna fit.

1200
00:45:22,523 --> 00:45:25,859
So, you can always find one
that matches.

1201
00:45:25,926 --> 00:45:28,829
There's one that will grow,
it's,

1202
00:45:28,896 --> 00:45:32,733
it doesn't get the allelopathic
problems of a black walnut.

1203
00:45:32,799 --> 00:45:34,101
You guys know about
black walnut,

1204
00:45:34,168 --> 00:45:36,336
and it can be hard
to plant around black walnuts?

1205
00:45:36,403 --> 00:45:38,272
<i>Viburnum nudum</i> is the one

1206
00:45:38,338 --> 00:45:40,440
that you can grow
around a black walnut.

1207
00:45:40,507 --> 00:45:42,643
And I also found out
from the permaculture woman

1208
00:45:42,709 --> 00:45:44,912
that, like, currants
and black raspberries

1209
00:45:44,978 --> 00:45:46,947
will work
around black walnuts too.

1210
00:45:47,014 --> 00:45:49,616
But as far as <i>Viburnums</i> go,
there's at least one I know

1211
00:45:49,683 --> 00:45:54,288
that will work around
your black walnut tree.

1212
00:45:54,354 --> 00:45:56,390
But look at the berries,
look at the fall color.

1213
00:45:56,456 --> 00:45:57,558
Really great.

1214
00:45:57,624 --> 00:45:59,860
They can have
really nice structure

1215
00:45:59,927 --> 00:46:01,895
even in the wintertime,
you know?

1216
00:46:01,962 --> 00:46:03,197
That's a good choice.

1217
00:46:03,263 --> 00:46:06,900
<i>Viburnums</i> are something
that you'll be able to use.

1218
00:46:06,967 --> 00:46:08,735
The winner: hazelnut.

1219
00:46:08,802 --> 00:46:09,903
Plant hazelnuts.

1220
00:46:09,970 --> 00:46:11,071
Look at those nuts.

1221
00:46:11,138 --> 00:46:13,240
That's gonna bring foragers
all over the place.

1222
00:46:13,307 --> 00:46:14,975
They're gonna love you.

1223
00:46:15,042 --> 00:46:16,510
The fall color is
really amazing.

1224
00:46:16,577 --> 00:46:18,712
It's, you know, they can stay
kind of low.

1225
00:46:18,779 --> 00:46:21,281
They don't always get up to like
that ten to sixteen feet,

1226
00:46:21,348 --> 00:46:23,350
but they can also get
pretty big.

1227
00:46:23,417 --> 00:46:25,185
Tolerates that soil,
that clay.

1228
00:46:25,252 --> 00:46:27,855
And this is kind of, and
another black walnut one.

1229
00:46:27,921 --> 00:46:29,623
That's what kind of
brought me to that.

1230
00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:31,425
So, you can plant these
around black walnut too.

1231
00:46:31,491 --> 00:46:32,593
I know there are people

1232
00:46:32,659 --> 00:46:34,561
that have a black walnut tree
in their yard

1233
00:46:34,628 --> 00:46:36,563
and they can't figure out what
to plant around it.

1234
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:38,765
And that's one thing
that you can.

1235
00:46:38,832 --> 00:46:40,234
For those of you
that don't know,

1236
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,637
black walnut trees release
a toxin from their root system

1237
00:46:43,704 --> 00:46:47,207
and make it difficult
for lots of plants to grow.

1238
00:46:47,274 --> 00:46:51,478
Full shade, part sun, so not out
in the middle of the sun,

1239
00:46:51,545 --> 00:46:53,380
you can grow your hazelnut.

1240
00:46:53,447 --> 00:46:58,085
You can harvest them and
eat 'em yourself if you want.

1241
00:46:58,151 --> 00:46:59,987
Bayberry,
another big favorite.

1242
00:47:00,053 --> 00:47:01,154
Love those berries.

1243
00:47:01,221 --> 00:47:03,557
They're there
in, like, December,

1244
00:47:03,624 --> 00:47:04,758
you see these berries.

1245
00:47:04,825 --> 00:47:05,959
The blue berries.

1246
00:47:06,026 --> 00:47:08,629
And then, that red
fall foliage color.

1247
00:47:08,695 --> 00:47:10,497
Five to ten feet easy.

1248
00:47:10,564 --> 00:47:11,665
Can be really wet.

1249
00:47:11,732 --> 00:47:13,033
Another one that can be wet.

1250
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,737
So, I've planted these along
coastlines and things like that.

1251
00:47:16,803 --> 00:47:18,739
They're really tough.

1252
00:47:18,805 --> 00:47:20,741
So, what, zone 3 to 9.

1253
00:47:20,807 --> 00:47:24,411
So, you could plant this one
up north and be fine.

1254
00:47:24,478 --> 00:47:26,013
They're super tough.

1255
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:27,447
And they'll sucker and things,

1256
00:47:27,514 --> 00:47:31,451
and they'll get kind of,
they get pretty tall.

1257
00:47:31,518 --> 00:47:33,120
What else have we got?

1258
00:47:33,187 --> 00:47:34,288
The old wild rose.

1259
00:47:34,354 --> 00:47:35,455
We talked about that.

1260
00:47:35,522 --> 00:47:37,424
This is more for sandy soil.

1261
00:47:37,491 --> 00:47:40,727
Roses like good drainage,
even if it's a wild rose.

1262
00:47:40,794 --> 00:47:41,995
So, sandy soil is good.

1263
00:47:42,062 --> 00:47:43,397
So, if you have a sandy patch,

1264
00:47:43,463 --> 00:47:45,165
the wild rose will do
great there.

1265
00:47:45,232 --> 00:47:46,333
It's gonna infiltrate.

1266
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,901
It's gonna do best
in full sun.

1267
00:47:47,968 --> 00:47:49,903
Don't plant this plant like this
in the shade.

1268
00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:52,873
It's gonna get leggy
and not be happy.

1269
00:47:52,940 --> 00:47:54,908
And they can be kind of,
they can go crazy.

1270
00:47:54,975 --> 00:47:57,311
A lot of people rip these out.

1271
00:47:57,377 --> 00:47:59,913
I've been to plenty of gardens
where they wanted to rip 'em out

1272
00:47:59,980 --> 00:48:01,481
and they were gonna do
something different.

1273
00:48:01,548 --> 00:48:05,219
So, but in 2026,
we plant 'em on purpose.

1274
00:48:06,019 --> 00:48:08,488
So, that's different.
[audience laughs]

1275
00:48:08,555 --> 00:48:10,958
And we'll get to the
ground plants.

1276
00:48:11,024 --> 00:48:12,492
Goldenrod.

1277
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:13,660
"That's a weed."

1278
00:48:13,727 --> 00:48:14,828
"No, it's not."

1279
00:48:14,895 --> 00:48:16,597
So, variable,
lots of different heights.

1280
00:48:16,663 --> 00:48:18,131
They can get real tall.

1281
00:48:18,198 --> 00:48:19,299
Dry to moist.

1282
00:48:19,366 --> 00:48:20,634
They're just tough,
they're really tough.

1283
00:48:20,701 --> 00:48:22,135
I know some people
don't like 'em.

1284
00:48:22,202 --> 00:48:24,338
I had one client
where I had it,

1285
00:48:24,404 --> 00:48:26,974
I had the goldenrod in the plan,
and he's like, "I'm allergic."

1286
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,141
And I was like,

1287
00:48:28,208 --> 00:48:30,310
"Oh, I should have asked
before that," you know?

1288
00:48:30,377 --> 00:48:33,013
So, and I think
he had bad experience with it

1289
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,215
when he was a kid,
so he just had a thing.

1290
00:48:35,282 --> 00:48:36,617
You know, people have
relationships with plants.

1291
00:48:36,683 --> 00:48:37,918
I find that out.

1292
00:48:37,985 --> 00:48:40,621
They, like, hate stuff,
love stuff.

1293
00:48:40,687 --> 00:48:41,955
Full sun, part shade.

1294
00:48:42,022 --> 00:48:43,957
Species dependent on the zone.

1295
00:48:44,024 --> 00:48:46,226
So, mix some goldenrod
in the ground.

1296
00:48:46,293 --> 00:48:48,428
I had somebody come up
when I did the talk yesterday

1297
00:48:48,495 --> 00:48:50,430
and she's like, "I got
goldenrod all over the place,

1298
00:48:50,497 --> 00:48:51,598
"so I'm halfway there.

1299
00:48:51,665 --> 00:48:53,200
I'm just gonna plant
the shrubs in it."

1300
00:48:53,267 --> 00:48:54,535
[laughter]
It works.

1301
00:48:54,601 --> 00:48:56,770
That's the way you do it, man.

1302
00:48:56,837 --> 00:48:58,172
That's kind of it.

1303
00:48:58,238 --> 00:48:59,840
Asters, of course.

1304
00:48:59,907 --> 00:49:02,009
And that's a fall bloomer,
right?

1305
00:49:02,075 --> 00:49:05,712
There's so many
different varieties out there.

1306
00:49:05,779 --> 00:49:06,980
Full sun to full shade.

1307
00:49:07,047 --> 00:49:09,283
You can do lots
of different things.

1308
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:13,253
So, you can definitely get
asters into your ground layer.

1309
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,791
That's the new genus of aster,
<i>Symphyotrichum.</i>

1310
00:49:18,926 --> 00:49:20,260
It's not aster anymore.

1311
00:49:20,327 --> 00:49:21,695
They changed it.

1312
00:49:21,762 --> 00:49:24,164
They wanted to make it hard.

1313
00:49:24,231 --> 00:49:26,500
One of my new favorite plants
that I've been using

1314
00:49:26,567 --> 00:49:29,670
really in the last four
or five years are turtleheads.

1315
00:49:29,736 --> 00:49:31,405
<i>Chelone glabra.</i>

1316
00:49:31,772 --> 00:49:34,341
My botanical
Latin pronunciation is terrible.

1317
00:49:34,408 --> 00:49:36,610
But they do great
in sun or shade.

1318
00:49:36,677 --> 00:49:40,147
They do like it a little bit
moist, so not a sunny dry spot

1319
00:49:40,214 --> 00:49:43,417
but a sunny wet spot
will work pretty good.

1320
00:49:43,483 --> 00:49:47,020
And mostly I use them in shady
conditions because they just--

1321
00:49:47,087 --> 00:49:48,655
and they'll colonize.

1322
00:49:48,722 --> 00:49:49,857
They'll start to spread.

1323
00:49:49,923 --> 00:49:51,391
There are some
cultivated varieties

1324
00:49:51,458 --> 00:49:53,627
that aren't quite as, like,
durable

1325
00:49:53,694 --> 00:49:54,995
as this straight species,

1326
00:49:55,062 --> 00:49:57,764
so I tend to work
with the straight species

1327
00:49:57,831 --> 00:49:59,733
in a habitat garden,

1328
00:50:00,133 --> 00:50:02,169
but I'll work
with the cultivars

1329
00:50:02,236 --> 00:50:04,805
in other parts of the garden.

1330
00:50:04,872 --> 00:50:06,406
Wild ginger.

1331
00:50:06,473 --> 00:50:07,741
Excellent ground cover.

1332
00:50:07,808 --> 00:50:10,410
Spreads out along the ground.

1333
00:50:10,477 --> 00:50:12,813
It's got to be the native one,

1334
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,581
because there was
a European ginger,

1335
00:50:14,648 --> 00:50:18,252
so it's better
to use the American native.

1336
00:50:18,318 --> 00:50:20,554
<i>Hexastylis</i> is another name.

1337
00:50:20,621 --> 00:50:21,922
Grows low and slow,

1338
00:50:21,989 --> 00:50:26,894
and they kind of spread
all across the ground, okay?

1339
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,395
Grasses, <i>Panicum.</i>

1340
00:50:28,462 --> 00:50:29,897
Has anybody grown switchgrass?

1341
00:50:29,963 --> 00:50:33,400
Loves switchgrasses,
really great.

1342
00:50:33,467 --> 00:50:36,703
Can do really well
on difficult soils.

1343
00:50:36,770 --> 00:50:40,007
They actually,
if it's a very fertile soil,

1344
00:50:40,073 --> 00:50:42,176
they will grow real fast
and flop.

1345
00:50:42,242 --> 00:50:44,845
So, don't do them in,
like, your perfect garden soil.

1346
00:50:44,912 --> 00:50:46,747
Plant them in that tricky soil.

1347
00:50:46,813 --> 00:50:48,882
But it can be clay or sand
or whatever

1348
00:50:48,949 --> 00:50:50,884
and they'll do just fine,
they can add in there.

1349
00:50:50,951 --> 00:50:52,119
Lots of different species

1350
00:50:52,186 --> 00:50:55,122
that will grow
at different sizes.

1351
00:50:55,189 --> 00:50:57,658
This is one of my favorites,
is purple lovegrass.

1352
00:50:57,724 --> 00:51:00,127
It's a smaller one,
very drought tolerant.

1353
00:51:00,194 --> 00:51:01,295
It's salt tolerant,

1354
00:51:01,361 --> 00:51:03,263
so I've used it around,
like, Long Island Sound

1355
00:51:03,330 --> 00:51:05,332
when I was gardening out there.

1356
00:51:05,399 --> 00:51:06,934
But you don't have to worry
about that.

1357
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,135
But the drought tolerance
is nice.

1358
00:51:08,202 --> 00:51:09,536
And these blooms,
this purple bloom,

1359
00:51:09,603 --> 00:51:11,438
it'll start
earlier in the summer

1360
00:51:11,505 --> 00:51:14,007
and it'll last like a month,
month and a half.

1361
00:51:14,074 --> 00:51:16,643
You get a lot out of it,
yeah.

1362
00:51:17,578 --> 00:51:18,679
Hay-scented fern.

1363
00:51:18,745 --> 00:51:21,915
That's the,
that's the running fern.

1364
00:51:21,982 --> 00:51:23,183
Sun or shade.

1365
00:51:23,250 --> 00:51:26,086
It's a fern that you can grow
in the sun, full sun,

1366
00:51:26,153 --> 00:51:29,256
and it'll grow
if the soil is moist enough.

1367
00:51:29,323 --> 00:51:30,991
So, get that one.

1368
00:51:31,825 --> 00:51:35,662
And then, here's another fern
to think about, a New York fern.

1369
00:51:35,729 --> 00:51:37,664
I came from--
I used to live in New York,

1370
00:51:37,731 --> 00:51:40,200
so maybe that's
why it's on there.

1371
00:51:40,267 --> 00:51:44,805
So, mix those things in there
and kind of make it happen.

1372
00:51:44,872 --> 00:51:47,374
Some other resources
before we get to the questions.

1373
00:51:47,441 --> 00:51:48,542
These are great resources

1374
00:51:48,609 --> 00:51:50,444
to find out more
about this kind of stuff.

1375
00:51:50,511 --> 00:51:53,814
The Ken Druse book,
that's my winter read this year.

1376
00:51:53,881 --> 00:51:56,016
That was written in 1996.

1377
00:51:56,083 --> 00:51:58,418
People were thinking about this
a long time ago.

1378
00:51:58,485 --> 00:51:59,820
We just weren't doing it.

1379
00:51:59,887 --> 00:52:01,321
But now, we can start,

1380
00:52:01,388 --> 00:52:04,725
now we can do it and get away
with it as designers.

1381
00:52:04,791 --> 00:52:07,561
<i>Bringing Nature Home,</i>
you got to have that one.

1382
00:52:07,628 --> 00:52:10,297
That tells you about how the--
That's when you get to the point

1383
00:52:10,364 --> 00:52:13,433
where you start thinking about
your garden as an ecosystem.

1384
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:16,203
You're thinking about that's how
you're designing your plantings.

1385
00:52:16,270 --> 00:52:19,573
And so, that's, he kind of
changed everybody's thinking

1386
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:20,674
when that happened.

1387
00:52:20,741 --> 00:52:22,976
And then, of course,
<i>Gardening for the Birds,</i>

1388
00:52:23,043 --> 00:52:26,079
which is a great sort of advice
on, like, what kind of birds

1389
00:52:26,146 --> 00:52:27,848
like what kind of plants,

1390
00:52:27,915 --> 00:52:31,585
where they nest, on the ground,
and things like that.

1391
00:52:31,652 --> 00:52:32,986
And then, if you think about it,

1392
00:52:33,053 --> 00:52:34,188
you wanna get
some other books,

1393
00:52:34,254 --> 00:52:35,756
there's some other
good books out there.

1394
00:52:35,822 --> 00:52:38,192
[audience chuckles] One called
<i>The New Gardener's Handbook.</i>

1395
00:52:38,258 --> 00:52:40,027
Oh, there it is.

1396
00:52:40,093 --> 00:52:43,497
And then my new book
is coming out in June.

1397
00:52:43,564 --> 00:52:46,166
It's called <i>The New</i>
<i>Garden Designer's Handbook.</i>

1398
00:52:46,233 --> 00:52:48,502
So, these are books
that I use for the classes

1399
00:52:48,569 --> 00:52:50,971
that I teach
at the New York Botanical Garden

1400
00:52:51,038 --> 00:52:52,139
and for other people.

1401
00:52:52,206 --> 00:52:54,341
So, I got some cards for that
if you're at all,

1402
00:52:54,408 --> 00:52:55,909
if you like anything
you heard today

1403
00:52:55,976 --> 00:52:57,945
and are even
remotely interested,

1404
00:52:58,011 --> 00:53:00,347
feel free to check it out.

1405
00:53:01,148 --> 00:53:04,251
And that's what I got,
except for questions.

1406
00:53:04,318 --> 00:53:06,286
[audience applauds]