- Luke Zahm: This week on Wisconsin Foodie:

[mellow pulsating music]

Where to get a good bagel and schmear in the state of Wisconsin? Is floaty a technical term?

- Ben Nerenhausen: Yes, it's proprietary to Allie Boy's.

- I'm in Walker's Point in Milwaukee to meet my friend Ben, chef and owner of Allie Boy's Bagels.

- Our bagels, we like to say, are Milwaukee bagels. They're Cream City bagels. Almost bring them out shoulder length. And these are my shoulders, not yours. You look like you work out, so. . .

- I'm ready to actually eat them, with my mouth. 

[both laugh]

Oh, this is so rad, Ben. I think you cracked a code. Joey Bagels, the man, the myth, the legend.

- Joey Gaglio: And we are in Gotham Bagels in Madison, Wisconsin. Yeah, I'm almost a Midwesterner. I'm pronouncing my Rs. [Luke laughs] It's terrible. When I first got here, I was like, "Get me the cah, get me the watah." 

This recipe's from 1906. How long did we cook it for? A lot of people ask that question, and it's like, "Eh."

- Oh, my God.

- Are you kidding me? This is a bagel.

[soft pulsating music]

- Luke: Wisconsin Foodie would like to thank the following underwriters.

- The dairy farmers of Wisconsin are proud to underwrite Wisconsin Foodie and remind you that in Wisconsin, we dream in cheese. [people cheer] Just look for our badge. It's on everything we make.

- Did you know Organic Valley protects over 400,000 acres of organic farmland? So are we an organic food cooperative that protects land or land conservationists who make delicious food? Yes; yes, we are. Organic Valley. 

- Employee-owned New Glarus Brewing Company has been brewing and bottling beer for their friends, only in Wisconsin, since 1993. Just a short drive from Madison, Come visit Swissconsin and see where your beer's made. 

- Wisconsin's great outdoors has something for everyone. Come for the adventure, stay for the memories. Go wild in Wisconsin. To build your adventure, visit dnr.wi.gov.

- Twenty-minute commutes. Weekends on the lake. Warm welcomes and exciting career opportunities. Not to mention all the great food! There's a lot to look forward to in Wisconsin. Learn more at InWisconsin.com.

- With additional support coming from the Conscious Carnivore. From local animal sourcing to on-site, high-quality butchering and packaging, The Conscious Carnivore can ensure organically-raised, grass-fed, and healthy meats through its small group of local farmers. The Conscious Carnivore: Know your farmer, love your butcher.

- Luke: Additional support from the following underwriters. Also with the support of Friends of PBS Wisconsin. 

[upbeat music]

We are collection of the finest farmers, food producers, and chefs on the planet. We are a merging of cultures and ideas, shaped by this land. [meat sizzles] We are a gathering of the waters, and together, we shape a new identity to carry us into the future. [glasses clink] We are storytellers. We are Wisconsin Foodie.

[mellow pulsating music]

Today, we're on the road to get the skinny about where to get a good bagel and schmear in the state of Wisconsin. I'm in Walker's Point in Milwaukee, and we are going inside to meet my friend, Ben, chef and owner of Allie Boy's Bagels. Chef has been all around the world, and he and his wife Staci have made Milwaukee their home and made making bagels for all of us their priority.

- What's up, B?

- Hey, what's going on, man? Good to see you.

- Good to see you again, man.

- You as well.

- Oh, this is great. This space is lovely. 

- Ben: Thank you so much.

- Luke: Yeah, I dig it. Ben, I'm so excited to see this process unfold. What do you say we go check out the back of the house?

- Ben: Let's do it, man.

- Luke: Cool.

- Ben: We're gonna be down in the dungeon.

- Luke: Yeah, secret passageways! That's what I'm talking about. So walk me through the process. What are we doing?

- So we're gonna start with a starter of sorts. We get it going the night before. Yeast, flour, water. It's gonna be actually all of our hydration that we put into the bagel. We're gonna add that into our mixer along some dry ingredients. Bagels are pretty simple: yeast, flour, water. We have a little bit of malt that we're adding to ours. A little bit of salt and a little bit of sugar just to kinda help feed the yeast. A lot of Montreal-style bagels will not have that sugar added to them. This is kind of more the New York variety. My wife's from New York, so had to follow tradition a little bit.

- As these mix together, one of the things that actually piqued my interest and curiosity is you mentioned a Montreal-style bagel in comparison to, like, a New York style. Are there other variations and versions of bagels that people may not be aware of?

- You know, each location is gonna have a little bit of different nuances. I think Montreal bagels are typically fired in a wood-fired oven. They're a little less sweet, a little bit bigger hole in the middle. Not quite as fluffy. We're using a lot of local products. We use flour from Meadowlark. We use, obviously, local Milwaukee water. I mean, we're right by the lake too. I mean, there are different yeasts and things in the air that are all gonna be part of this bagel when it comes to fruition. So our bagels, we like to say, are Milwaukee bagels. They're Cream City bagels. We certainly take our direction from probably a New York-style bagel lean. They're not gonna be the exact same thing. It's a different place, different ingredients. And that makes it what is an Allie Boy's bagel.

When this comes out, we need to give it a little rest just to kind of relax the gluten. Otherwise it's like trying to work a rock. So we have some dough that's ready to go. Why don't we head over to the roller and we'll make some bagels?

- Sounds great, man.

- Awesome. 

So we're gonna start by dumping this guy out.

- That was not the most emphatic dump I've ever seen.

- It's a belabored dump.

[Luke laughs]

- You really gotta work it out. So you get it on the table. I assume at this part of the process, we're gonna have to, like, portion these out.

- We've actually enlisted the help of a little dough portioner machine. These guys, we're gonna actually weigh out to about 2,600.

- Luke: 2,600 grams?

- Ben: Yeah. All right, so we got this big stamp here. Essentially it's gonna help portion it. It puts pressure on the dough. So it's kind of squeezing it out into that frame. And I kind of put all my body pressure on there.

- Luke: Whoa! That was more explosive.

- Ben: Release that pressure. So once we have our portions, we dump 'em out onto the table. We're gonna get rolling.

[machine hums]

We're gonna pop these guys through it. And we have two rollers here that kind of roll it out and then roll it up into a little log. 

- Oh, cool.

- And they come out looking just like that.

- That is super rad. I love kind of, like, small-scale industrial machinery like this.

- This is honestly formulated for bolillos and hot dog buns.

- Luke: Sure.

- So we have all these. . .

- Logs. 

- [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

- Bagel logs. Bagel buns.

- Okay, what next?

- Ben: We're going to start forming our bagels. So we're gonna take our logs. We're gonna put a little pressure in the middle. We're kind of trying to almost bring them out shoulder length. And these are my shoulders, not yours. You look like you work out, so. . .

[Luke laughs]

- Thanks.

[both laugh]

We'll wrap 'em on our hand. We only need about an inch or so coverage.

- Luke: Sure.

- We actually like some of the unique imperfections. That's why we do hand-rolled.

- Yep.

- There are other ways to do bagels where you can roll them into little balls and then you poke your finger through and you're rolling it, and it creates a very nice, uniform product.

- Yeah. We're not that fancy.

[Luke laughs]

So this is a little bit more traditional. This is kind of like what your Nona would do. What your Bubbe would do.

- Luke: So I'm gonna roll it out. Consistency in this part.

- Ben: You don't wanna play with it too much.

[Luke laughs]

- It's a bagel, son. Okay, so I'm gonna take my hand here, fold it over like that.

- Yep. 

- Okay.

- And then just a little one, two. Just a little, one, two.

- One, two. Booyah.

- Looks good, man. So once we have 15 to a tray, we get 'em onto the speed rack, where we're gonna let 'em sit for a period of time until they're kind of floaty.

- Okay.

- We use a little bucket of water to kind of test trays randomly. Make sure they have enough air bubbles inside. 

- Is floaty a technical term?

- Uh, yes. It's proprietary to Allie Boy's.

[Luke laughs]

[bright electronic music]

So we're gonna take our bagels. These have been proofing overnight. We rolled them, they sat for a good 24 hours. We're now gonna take them. . . We're gonna boil them in a solution of malt syrup and water. Very quick, kind of help develop that crust. 

- Why the malt syrup?

- It adds a little bit of sweetness.

- Okay.

- It's also gonna help with the color.

- Oh, I love it.

- These guys, throw them away. And we got our nice big chopsticks.

- Yeah, I like that.

- We give 'em a nice little 30-second float on each side. Usually by the time they all start floating for us, we're ready to start flipping.

- Luke: Sweet. Man, Ben, that is such a precise movement for you.

- Lots of sushi was consumed.

[Luke laughs]

- Yeah, I bet.

- Ben: To work these big guys.

- Luke: And so you literally boil 'em for a minute, right?

- Not too long; I mean, we found that. . . I mean, you can go longer, but it kind of, the crust can get a little bit tough. A little bit chewy.

- Sure. 

- Ben: We like to keep ours a little lighter. And we're ready to start pulling 'em.

- Into the shock, this is cold water?

- Correct, yeah. Cold water just kind of stops the cooking process. We still want that oven spring on the inside. We don't want a dead dough.

- Luke: Yeah.

- And then from here, we're actually gonna load 'em up. So we always try to put the face side face down 'cause we're gonna flip these.

- Luke: Yep. And now cornmeal.

- Ben: Little bit of cornmeal. I like the cornmeal. It just adds a nice little texture on the backside of the bagels. From here. . .

- Right onto the stone deck.

- Ben: Right onto the deck.

[steam sizzles]

- Luke: Wow, that's satisfying. 

- Ben: And from here, we'll just kind of let 'em sit for a moment.

- So we're letting that radiant heat come off that stone deck. Kind of set 'em a touch?

- Well, going back to what you were saying about sticking, it helps that backside to kind of dry out a little bit in conjunction with the cornmeal, and just helps it to also not burn.

- Luke: Oh, this is so rad, Ben. And now after watching this whole process come together, getting a chance to boil the bagels, drop them in the oven, I'm ready to check these out the way that I'm most accustomed to, which is to actually eat them.

- With your mouth.

- With my mouth.

[Luke and Ben laugh]

Thank you, brother.

- Of course.

- I really appreciate you. 

- Of course, man. Let's get some food for you.

- Luke: All right.

[groovy piano music]

Allie Boy's is the type of destination that you really want to plan out. It's not open all the time. In fact, it opens on Thursdays and serves through Sunday. And I think that for me, it creates this buzz and allows the actual staff the ability to create these culinary masterpieces and really focus their time and energy and effort into making sure that these flavors pop. The space itself is warm and inviting, and there is a palpable buzz when the doors open and people line up to come in and get their bagel fix. Bagels are often thought of as this medium to carry the flavors around them. And looking at this menu, I can see the cultural background of Ben and Staci across the whole thing. 

For myself though, I really, really love a great bagel sandwich. And I think today, I'm gonna lean into the Classic. House-cured lox, tomato, onion, caper, dill, labneh, and the spring herb schmear. That sounds like my jam. Thank you. The Classic. I'm so excited! Immediately, this smells rich. It has this warm multi, kind of deeply comforting, like a blanket on a cold winter day. And it smells so familiar. I can see that the lox is on the side and you get that tomato, onion, schmear. Everything kind of comes together, and it's quintessential.

So right away, you get that chewy exterior, but pillowy soft interior of the bagel. It's gorgeous. But then all the flavors of the schmear and the labneh kind of counter in on it and bring you right into the richness of that lox. That's complemented by the slight acidity of the onions and tomatoes. And it's delicious, mmm.

- Ben: How are things going?

- I could say, I haven't had a tremendous amount of experience with bagels, growing up in a rural part of southwestern Wisconsin, but this is awesome.

- Thank you.

- Yeah, I thank you. You can see how all the flavors kind of round out and lift the bagel up together. I think you've cracked a code, maybe even in my heart. You've opened it up. Man, I'm a fan.

- Well, thanks for checking us out. I appreciate it.

- Of course, brother.

- Ben: Cheers.

- Luke: Be well.

[groovy music]

You can't make a show about bagels in Wisconsin without including Joey Bagels, the man, the myth, the legend. And today, we're at Gotham Bagels here in Madison to meet with him and see what this bagel madman is all about. 

- Joey: Lemme check on my bagels. My name is Joey Bagels and we are in Gotham Bagels in Madison, Wisconsin. Man, I don't wanna define me. I'm Joey Bagels; that's it, no definition. New York is where my heart is. It's where I was born and raised. So what I've done is I've tried to bring as much of New York to this shop to make me feel like I'm at home. We have Wisconsin meeting New York. And you know what, it's a great marriage.

You know, I grew up in an Italian household in the south shore of Long Island. They were very obsessed with food, and there was a lot of yelling. I guess you can't imagine that. And that's basically how it goes. Hollering, and yelling, and being loud, and being passionate always came along with the territory.

I'm gonna start baking in a minute. We are gonna be rolling right now. We're gonna do that. You guys are getting the double dipper here. We're gonna bake and we're gonna roll. So a New York bagel, the sad thing is the bagel started out in the 1900s, and there was a bagel union once and it was broken up, and then they had machines and there were no more bagel rollers. So once they introduced the machines, there was no more rollers. There are rollers left though. We happen to be one of them. It's a hand roll, the recipe's from 1906. It's from New York City, downtown Manhattan. We've developed a true New York bagel in the Midwest. Hand-rolled, boiled, baked.

We proof 'em now, we put 'em in the cooler. The cold air cures them, creates a skin on the outside. It's almost like pellicle formation. Next morning we come in, boiling water, into the oven, 600 degrees, passes the knock test. That's it. The New York bagel is hand-rolled, boiled in water, boiling water. 212 H2O, dried out on the oven on burlap and cedar boards. Flipped and baked 18 minutes, done. That's a New York bagel.

So basically what we have right here is we have a bagel. And as you can see, this is gonna make a really nice bagel. Looks like it's kind of dried out, but this is really gonna work good for us. I usually bake in this great kettle here 'cause we bake so many. But since we're only making a few, we're gonna do inside this pot. And how hot? The water usually should be boiling. But this water's hot enough. And basically what's gonna happen, since this bagel is really hollow, it's gonna rise immediately. And how long do we cook it for? A lot of people ask that question, and it's like, "Eh." So basically move it around, and then I'm gonna take the bagels out, and now they're cooked. Now remember, we roll these a couple of days ago, we put 'em in the cooler, we cured them.

Take my seeds. Now, another thing I see people do is, and I know a lot of people like it, a lot of customers like it, is a lot of seeds. So we could dip-- There's two different ways we can do this; we used to dip. And we dip and we get that, okay? But we don't dip anymore. Our dipping days are over, right? That's a dip. That's taking the bagel, dropping it directly into seeds, and dip it here. To me, this is an incorrect bagel because how is this gonna caramelize? How's this bagel gonna caramelize? It's got all these seeds, it's got all this moisture. That's a supermarket bagel. We take the seeds and we put the seeds on the board. And we get the right amount of seeds. We don't want too many seeds. I mean, if you want a lot of seeds, you know, I don't know, go to a nursery or something, buy some bird seed. But over here. . . Upside down. Little crust here, round part here. Set it up, four on a board. Both sides.

[claps hands]

In we go, boom. What are we doing this for? Well, we want to get the top dried out so we get it crispy on the bottom. And we also don't want it to stick. Rotating oven, preferably 600 degrees. I got it exactly how I want it. And that's our bagel process. So now we're ready for the flip. So how do we know about the flip? Well, we kinda want to feel the top and make sure it's dry. We don't want it to be wet. And then we barely want to move the bagel. We don't wanna move the bagel around 'cause it's dough, it's live. So we just flip like that.

[bagel thuds]

[bagel thuds]

That's it. Eighteen minutes and you'll have beautiful bagels. 

[groovy music]

New Yorkers are liars, and I'm a New Yorker. They're the biggest liars in the world. "You can't have a bagel here because of the water. You go down here, the water, the water, the water," it's all BS. We're here in Madison, Wisconsin. We took water from Madison, Wisconsin, a very nice city, I would like to add. One of the greatest cities in the country. Punching way below its weight. We're taking water from Wisconsin. We shipped it out to my brother's bagel shop. He's right on the wall here. Please give him some credit. God rest his soul. And we cooked bagels in 2006, and they came out exactly the same. So we said, "Huh, I think people from New York are lying."

The whole idea of the water is that New York has great water. It comes from aquifers up in upstate New York, running through lots of shale, lots of mountains, other mountainous regions. There's the Catskill Mountains, there's the Adirondack Mountains. Wisconsin doesn't have mountains; they have a couple. What they basically have is that shale. They have that contour of the topography where the water runs through it. Madison, the city of Madison, has a great water well that goes way down below for many, many years, and it produces great water. So with the great water and the knowledge. . . You don't bring the water from New York to Madison, Wisconsin. You bring the bagel maker. That's how you make great bagels. Let's do it; let's take some bagels outta the oven. Here we go. Madison, Wisconsin. All the great bagel shops of the turn of the century, from New York, from New Jersey. . . We've taken this recipe, this recipe's from 1906, and here we are in Madison, Wisconsin. As they say, land of the. . . It's not land of the milk and honey. It's land of the cheese. Everybody's nice, and here we are.

Our knock test, [bagel thuds] boom. That's a New York bagel knock test. We charge extra for viewing, by the way, all right? Can you do upcharge on the bill there, please?

[customer laughs]

You think this is free? So we are very much, even though we have a New York theme, we are here in Wisconsin, we're buying local. We make very intricate sandwiches. We use a lot of the great ingredients of the farmer's market. Gotham would not be who Gotham is without the great ingredients. 'Cause you go to a restaurant, you can taste the tomato that's been made a thousand miles away and iceberg lettuce. And you taste our stuff and it's all high quality. Local farmers, local producers, we do care about it a lot. 

Let's go.

[meat sizzles]

Everybody's talking about these smash. . . All I hear about is these smash burgers. We got smash burgers; we got smashed chorizo. Salt, black pepper, cotija, not too shabby. Charred provolone, just to break it all up. All right, we're ready to go; where's Luke?

- Luke: That looks delicious.

- Joey: All right, wait. That looks delicious? I haven't even put the main ingredient out yet! Chorizo, scrambled egg, cotija.

- I mean, come on.

- That is ridiculous. Oh, my God.

- Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

[Luke laughs]

All right, brother. Again, you can't eat it like this. Bring this in the car?

- You cannot. That's a situation.

- That's a situation.

- All right, let's go. All of a sudden, this looks like you cannot eat it. But then we have this very magic thing called paper.

[paper crinkles]

- Love me some paper. Oh, man.

- You know, I don't wanna say it's our best sandwich. It's not our best-selling sandwich, but I think it's our best sandwich 'cause it has everything. It has the meat, it has the egg, it has a vegetable. And then it has the contrast of sweet, spicy, protein, fatty, and all the elements. Just no umami in there.

- What's this one called?

- Luchador. 

- El Luchadore! You get all the essence of that chorizo. A little bit of that cinnamon, some of the spice in that. But it's immediately contrasted with the coolness of the avocado, the slaw, the radish. The egg kind of pulls it all together.

- It's my favorite sandwich on the menu.

- Mm-hmm; the bagel is the thing that kind of cements all those things between its two halves. And my brother, these are delicious.

- So basically like we discussed, caramelization, little crackling, a little bit of a darker bottom because we dried 'em out on those boards that we talked about. Air goes through the hole, licks around the outside of the bagel. The reason it's like this is 'cause it's cured. This is a bagel. This is a bagel.

- Thank you so much for sharing your perspective and what you bring to the table. Coming here as an culinary instructor, being around this city for a long time, Joe.

- 22 years.

- 22 years.

- Yeah, I'm almost a Midwesterner. I'm pronouncing my Rs.

[Luke laughs]

It's terrible. I first got here, I was like, "Get me the cah, get me the watah." You know, New Yorkers, they don't pronounce their Rs. You have all these leftover Rs.

- Exactly.

- Then we add 'em onto words that don't matter, like idear and tunar sandwich.

- Well, you want a tunar?

- Yeah, tunar sandwich. It's like, "We have this R left over. What are we gonna do with it?"

- I don't know.

- Now I'm pronouncing them. I don't have any leftovers anymore. I'm in the Midwest, Madison, Wisconsin. Love it, great city. Madison is my home, New York is my heart.

- Oh, now that's beautiful.

[groovy music]

In five, four, three, two, one. [whispers] Booyah.

I'm just gonna get real close here.

- Producer: Less close, less close.

- Oh, me?

- Too much. . . 

[Luke laughs]

- How many dough fights have you been in in your life?

- Way too many, way too many.

[Luke laughs]

- Those are the stats I want to see on the billboard. 45 crimes prevented with the bagel dough. Trying, baby, I'm trying!

- Producer: What you looking for in the knock test?

- That's a secret. I have to charge you extra for that. We can talk about it. I got some papers you gotta fill out. You familiar with an NDA?

[Luke laughs]

- Oh, my gosh, can we please call cut?

[Luke laughs]

Wisconsin Foodie would like to thank the following underwriters.

- The dairy farmers of Wisconsin are proud to underwrite Wisconsin Foodie and remind you that in Wisconsin, we dream in cheese. [people cheer] Just look for our badge. It's on everything we make.

- Did you know Organic Valley protects over 400,000 acres of organic farmland? So are we an organic food cooperative that protects land or land conservationists who make delicious food? Yes; yes, we are. Organic Valley. 

- Employee-owned New Glarus Brewing Company has been brewing and bottling beer for their friends, only in Wisconsin, since 1993. Just a short drive from Madison, come visit Swissconsin and see where your beer's made.

- Wisconsin's great outdoors has something for everyone. Come for the adventure, stay for the memories. Go wild in Wisconsin. To build your adventure, visit dnr.wi.gov.

- Twenty-minute commutes. Weekends on the lake. Warm welcomes and exciting career opportunities. Not to mention all the great food! There's a lot to look forward to in Wisconsin. Learn more at InWisconsin.com.

- With additional support coming from The Conscious Carnivore. From local animal sourcing to on-site, high-quality butchering and packaging, The Conscious Carnivore can ensure organically-raised, grass-fed, and healthy meats through its small group of local farmers. The Conscious Carnivore: Know your farmer, love your butcher. 

- Luke: Additional support from the following underwriters. Also with the support of Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

- Are you hungry for more? Then go to our YouTube channel and subscribe and be in the loop every time we release new content, behind-the-scenes footage, and new episodes that you can preview before anyone else. Check us out.

[gentle music]