justification for the administration, the
unconscionable. The opinions.
domestically. Program support for PBS Wisconsin
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in Wisconsin Rapids.
Proud to support PBS Wisconsin.
I'M GEOFF BENNETT.G.
AMNA: AND I'M AMNA NAWAZ. ON THE NEWS HOUR TONIGHT, WAR
RAGES ON AS IRAN CHOOSES A NEW SUPREME LEADER AND THE CONFLICT
DEEPENS ACROSS THE REGION. WE SPEAK WITH THE IRANIAN
FOREIGN MINISTER. >> THIS IS A WAR IMPOSED ON US
AND WHAT WE ARE DOING IS ONLY DEFENDING OURSELVES.
GEOFF: OIL PRICES SURGE AMID THE TURMOIL, SENDING GAS PRICES
HIGHER TOO. AMNA: AND TAMARA KEITH AND AMY
WALTER DISCUSS THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE WAR.
? >> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS
NEWS HOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY --
>> CUNARD IS A PROUD SUPPORTER OF PUBLIC TELEVISION.
ON A VOYAGE WITH CUNARD, THE WORLD AWAITS.
A WORLD OF DIVERSE DESTINATIONS AND IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCES.
A WORLD OF LEISURE AND BRITISH STYLE.
ALL WITH CUNARD'S WHITE STAR SERVICE.
> CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER PROFESSIONALS ARE PROUD TO
SUPPORT PBS NEWS HOUR. CFP PROFESSIONALS ARE COMMITTED
TO ACTING IN THEIR CLIENTS' BEST INTERESTS.
MORE INFORMATION AT LET'SMAKEAPLAN.ORG.
>> AND BY THESE INDIVIDUALS AND INSTITUTIONS, INCLUDING FRIENDS
OF THE NEWS HOUR, INCLUDING LEONARD AND PETER BLOOM KOHLER
FOUNDATION AND JUDY AND PETER BLUM KOVLER FOUNDATION.
AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS AND
INSTITUTIONS. ?
THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.
AMNA: WELCOME TO THE NEWS HOUR. THE U.S. AND ISRAEL'S WAR WITH
IRAN IS NOW IN ITS 10TH DAY, AND THE GLOBAL ECONOMY IS
PREPARING FOR MAJOR BLOWBACK AS WEEKEND ATTACKS ON OIL
INFRASTRUCTURE SPIKED OIL -- SPIKED PRICES GLOBALLY.
GEOFF: BUT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TODAY INSISTED THE WAR IS,
QUOTE, "VERY COMPLETE," ADDING THE U.S. IS AHEAD OF HIS FOUR TO
FIVE WEEK ESTIMATED TIME FRAME FOR THE CONFLICT.
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN IS IN THE GULF, AND
STARTS OUR COVERAGE. LEILA: IN TEHRAN, THICK TOXIC
PLUMES OF SMOKE COAT THE CAPITOL, DAYS AFTER AN ISRAELI
AIRSTRIKE TARGETED A CRUCIAL OIL DEPOT IN THE NORTH OF THE CITY,
IGNITING A FIRE SO MASSIVE, ITS FLAMES GLOWED IN THE EVENING
SKYLINE MILES AWAY. THE ISRAELI AIR FORCE ALSO
STRUCK TWO OTHER OIL DEPOTS OVER THE WEEKEND.
SENDING BURNING OIL RUNNING INTO RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS ACROSS
THE CITY, AS HOMES BURST INTO FLAMES.
AND KILLING AT LEAST FOUR TANKER DRIVERS, ACCORDING TO IRANIAN
STATE MEDIA. TODAY IRAN'S MILITARY
SPOKESPERSON WARNED OF MARKET REPERCUSSIONS.
>> [TRANSLATED] OTHERWISE, SIMILAR ACTIONS WILL TAKE PLACE
IN THE REGION, AND IF YOU CAN HANDLE A BARREL OF OIL OVER
$200, KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME. LEILA: SINCE THE WAR BEGAN OVER
A WEEK AGO, THE PRICE OF OIL HAS CONTINUED TO SPIKE, BRIEFLY AT
ALMOST $120 PER BARREL TODAY. LAST NIGHT, PRESIDENT DONALD
TRUMP BRUSHED OFF CONCERNS, POSTING ON TRUTH SOCIAL, QUOTE,
"SHORT TERM OIL PRICES, WHICH WILL DROP RAPIDLY WHEN THE
DESTRUCTION OF THE IRAN NUCLEAR THREAT IS OVER, IS A VERY SMALL
PRICE TO PAY FOR U.S.A., AND WORLD, SAFETY AND PEACE.
ONLY FOOLS WOULD THINK DIFFERENTLY!"
BUT INTERNATIONAL CONCERN- REMAINS RIFE.
>> [TRANSLATED] THE LONGER THE WAR CONTINUES, THE GREATER THE
CONCERNS ABOUT INFLATION AND GROWTH WILL NATURALLY BECOME,
ESPECIALLY AS LONG AS OIL PRICES REMAIN HIGH. OIL PRICES HAVE
-- REMAIN HIGH. LEILA: BUT THE PRICE OF WAR IS
MUCH GREATER. AN IRANIAN STRIKE IN CENTRAL
ISRAEL TODAY KILLED AT LEAST ONE CIVILIAN AND INJURED TWO.
AND IRAN TODAY ANNOUNCED A NEW WAVE OF ITS MILITARY OPERATION,
SHOWCASING A MISSILE LAUNCH. MEANWHILE THE UNITED STATES AND
ISRAEL STRUCK THREE IRANIAN SHIPS IN THE PERSIAN GULF,
LEAVING THIS IRANIAN VESSEL IN FLAMES OFF THE PORT OF BANDAR
ABBAS IN THE SOUTHEAST. AS THE CONFLICT SPREADS ACROSS
THE MIDDLE EAST, THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT URGED AMERICANS IN
SAUDI ARABIA TO, QUOTE, "STRONGLY CONSIDER DEPARTING"
AND "AVOID THE U.S. EMBASSY AND U.S. CONSULATE."
THIS COMES A WEEK AFTER AN IRANIAN DRONE STRUCK RIYADH'S
U.S. EMBASSY COMPOUND. AND JUST A DAY AFTER THE U.S.
CENTRAL COMMAND CONFIRMED A SEVENTH AMERICAN SERVICE MEMBER
WAS KILLED DURING AN IRANIAN ATTACK ON A SAUDI ARABIA BASE
LAST WEEK, 26 YEAR OLD ARMY SERGEANT BENJAMIN PENNINGTON
FROM KENTUCKY. MEANWHILE IN TEHRAN, GRIEF AND
ANGER ENGULFS FAMILIES GATHERING TO BURY THEIR LOVED ONES KILLED
IN AIRSTRIKES ACROSS THE CITY. >> [TRANSLATED] WHAT SIN HAD MY
CHILDREN COMMITTED? MY CHILDREN STILL HAD DREAMS.
? LEILA: BUT THE STREETS, IN SPITE
OF THE CONSTANT BOMBARDMENT, ALSO HOSTED A CELEBRATION.
WITH A NEW SUPREME LEADER EMERGING.
OJTABA KHAMENEI, NAMED TEN DAYS AFTER THE KILLING OF AYATOLLAH
ALI KHAMENEI, HIS FATHER. THE CHOICE ECHOING THE KIND OF
HEREDITARY RULE THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC PURPORTED TO REPLACE.
PRO GOVERNMENT SUPPORTERS CHANTING DEATH TO ISRAEL SAY
THEY STAND BEHIND THE REVOLUTION.
>> [TRANSLATED] AMERICA AND ISRAEL, YOU HAVE FAILED AND YOU
WILL GROUND IN THE SWAMP YOU ARE STUCK IN.
LEILA: THE 56-YEAR-OLD, EXPECTED TO CONTINUE HIS FATHER'S
HARD-LINE APPROACH. PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLING HIM AN
UNACCEPTABLE CHOICE, TELLING NBC TODAY, QUOTE, I THINK THEY MADE
A BIG MISTAKE. JUST A YEAR AGO MOJTABA
KHAMENEI'S APPOINTMENT AS HIS FATHER'S SUCCESSOR SEEMED DEEPLY
UNLIKELY. BUT THE KILLING OF HIS PARENTS,
WIFE, AND SON BY U.S.-ISRAELI STRIKES LAST WEEK MAKES HIM A
SYMBOLIC FIGUREHEAD FOR PRO-REGIME SUPPORTERS, AND SENDS
A FIRM MESSAGE TO DONALD TRUMP, WHO DECLARED HE WANTED A HAND IN
CHOOSING THE NEXT LEADER, ABOUT THE INVIOLABILITY OF IRAN'S
SOVEREIGNTY. IN THE VACUUM LEFT SINCE HIS
FATHER'S DEATH, ANALYSTS SAY POWER HAS SWUNG EVEN FURTHER
INTO THE HANDS OF THE MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT.
SO THE NEW SUPREME LEADER'S CLOSE TIES TO THE ALL-POWERFUL
IRGC MAY ALSO HAVE SPURRED THE CHOICE.
FOR THE PBS NEWS HOUR, I'M LEILA MALAN ALLEN IN DOHA, QATAR.
AMNA: NOW TO THE VIEW FROM THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT.
EARLIER TODAY I SPOKE WITH IRAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER, ABBAS
ARAGHCHI, FROM TEHRAN. MR. MINISTER, WELCOME TO THE
NEWS HOUR. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, THANK YOU INDEED.
AMNA: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ABOUT THE NEWS OF THE SELECTION OF
MOJTABA, THE SON OF THE AYATOLLAH, WHO HAS BEEN NAMED
THE NEW SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN. SOME SAY HIS ELECTION IS A
MESSAGE OF CONTINUITY OF HIS FATHER'S LEADERSHIP, OF
CONTINUED DEFIANCE TO THE U.S. AND ISRAEL.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? IS THAT THE MESSAGE IRAN WOULD
LIKE TO SEND? >> I THINK THAT IS THE CORRECT
EVALUATION. IT SHOWS THAT THE CONTINUITY,
SOME SORT OF STABILITY AT THE SAME TIME.
AMNA: AND SINCE HIS SELECTION, HAS HE OR ANYONE IN YOUR
LEAIDERSHIP HAD ANY CONTACT WITH U.S. OFFICIALS?
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT HE IS OPEN TO, TO TALK ABOUT
NEGOTIATIONS OR A CEASE FIRE? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S TOO
SOON, YOU KNOW, FOR HIM TO MAKE ANY COMMENT.
WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR HIS SPEECHES AND COMMENTS, WHICH
WOULD COME LATER ON. BUT I DON'T THINK THE QUESTION
OF TALKING WITH AMERICANS OR NEGOTIATION WITH THE AMERICANS
ONCE AGAIN WOULD BE ON THE TABLE.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A VERY, YOU KNOW, BITTER
EXPERIENCE OF TALKING WITH THE AMERICANS.
WE NEGOTIATED WITH THEM LAST YEAR IN LAST JUNE, AND THEY
ATTACKED US IN THE MIDDLE OF NEGOTIATIONS.
AND AGAIN THIS YEAR, THEY TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT THIS TIME IS
DIFFERENT. THEY PROMISED US THAT THEY DON'T
HAVE ANY INTENTION TO ATTACK US. AND THEY WANTED TO RESOLVE THE
IRAN'S NUCLEAR QUESTION PEACEFULLY, AND TO FIND A
NEGOTIATED SOLUTION, AND WE FINALLY ACCEPTED.
BUT AGAIN, AFTER THREE ROUNDS OF NEGOTIATION AND AFTER THE
AMERICAN TEAM IN THE NEGOTIATION, YOU KNOW, SAID
ITSELF THAT WE MADE A BIG PROGRESS, STILL THEY DECIDED TO
ATTACK US. SO I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW,
TALKING WITH AMERICANS ANYMORE WOULD BE ON OUR AGENDA ANYMORE.
AMNA: MR. MINISTER, THIS WAR HAS NOW ENTERED ITS 10TH DAY.
I KNOW YOU HAVE SAID THAT UNLESS THERE'S A PERMANENT END TO THE
WAR, NOT A CEASE FIRE, IN OTHER WORDS, THAT IRAN WILL CONTINUE
TO DEFEND ITSELF, CONTINUE TO FIGHT.
CAN I ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE U.S. AND ISRAEL
ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE OR TRYING TRYING TO CHANGE WITH THIS WAR?
>> WELL, ACTUALLY THEY TRIED TO ACHIEVE SOME TARGETS, SOME OF
THEIR GOALS, BUT THEY FAILED. THEY THOUGHT THAT IN A MATTER OF
TWO OR THREE DAYS, THEY CAN GO FOR A REGIME CHANGE, THEY CAN GO
FOR A RAPID, CLEAN VICTORY, BUT THEY FAILED.
SO I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, OPTION -- YOU KNOW, PLAN A WAS A
FAILURE. AND NOW THEY ARE TRYING OTHER
PLANS, BUT ALL OF THEM HAVE FAILED AS WELL.
AND I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE ANY REALISTIC END GAME IN THEIR MIND
BECAUSE WE ARE SEEING SOME SORT OF A CHAOS IN THEIR SAVINGS, IN
THEIR, YOU KNOW, ACTIONS. THEY HAVE JUST STARTED TO ATTACK
US BLINDLY. THEY ARE ATTACKING TODAY.
THEY ATTACKED, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL AREAS, THEY ATTACKED
HOSPITALS, THEY ATTACKED SCHOOLS.
AND THEY ENTERED INTO, TO ATTACKING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE,
WHICH IS A VERY DANGEROUS MOVE. AND, YOU KNOW, AS A RESULT, YOU
CAN SEE THE OIL PRICES EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
SO I DON'T SEE ANY, YOU KNOW, REASONABLE GOAL THAT THEY ARE
FOLLOWING. THEY FAIL TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS
AT THE BEGINNING. AND NOW AFTER 10 DAYS, I THINK
THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, AIMLESS. AMNA: I DO WANT TO ASK MORE
ABOUT THE OIL PRICES, AS YOU MENTIONED.
THERE HAVE BEEN WIDESPREAD DISRUPTIONS IN THE DELIVERY OF
OIL IN THE PERSIAN GULF. WE'RE SEEING PRICES HERE IN THE
U.S. START TO RISE AS WELL. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN
PRESSURE THE U.S. AND ISRAEL TO STOP THEIR ATTACKS BY SLOWING OR
STOPPING OIL PRODUCTION AS WELL?
>> WELL, THIS IS NOT OUR FAULT. THIS IS NOT OUR PLAN.
THE OIL PRODUCTION, YOU KNOW, THE TRANSPORTATION OF OIL HAS
BEEN SLOWED DOWN OR STOPPED. NOT BECAUSE OF US, BECAUSE OF
THE ATTACKS AND AGGRESSION MADE BY ISRAELIS AND AMERICANS
AGAINST US. SO THEY HAVE MADE THE WHOLE
REGION INSECURE. AND THIS IS WHY THE TANKERS, THE
SHIPS, ARE SCARED TO PASS THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.
WE HAVE NOT CLOSED THAT STRAIT. WE HAVE NOT -- WE ARE NOT
PREVENTING THEM TO NAVIGATE IN THAT STRAIT.
BUT THIS IS THE RESULT OF THE AGGRESSION BY ISRAELIS AND
AMERICANS, WHICH HAS MADE THE WHOLE REGION INSECURE, UNSTABLE,
AND THE CONSEQUENCES ARE HUGE FOR NOT ONLY US, BUT FOR THE
WHOLE REGION. AND NOW FOR THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY. AMNA: IRAN HAS, THOUGH, HIT
MULTIPLE OIL FACILITIES IN OTHER NATIONS AND SOME OF THE REGION'S
TOP PRODUCING NATIONS, IN FACT, SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAQ AND
KUWAIT. AND WE HEARD FROM YOUR TOP
MILITARY SPOKESMAN TODAY, WHO SAID, IF YOU CAN TOLERATE OIL AT
MORE THAN $200 PER BARREL, CONTINUE THIS GAME.
SO IS LIMITING OIL SUPPLY PART OF YOUR STRATEGY HERE?
>> WELL, ACTUALLY, THIS IS A WAR IMPOSED ON US.
AND WHAT WE ARE DOING IS ONLY DEFENDING OURSELVES.
WE ARE FACING AN ACT OF AGGRESSION, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY
ILLEGAL. AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS THE
ACT OF SELF-DEFENSE, WHICH IS LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE.
WELL, WE HAVE ALREADY WARNED EVERYBODY IN THE REGION THAT IF
THE U.S. ATTACK US, SINCE WE CANNOT REACH THE AMERICAN SOIL,
WE HAVE TO ATTACK THEIR BASES IN THE REGION, THEIR FACILITIES,
THEIR INSTALLATIONS, THEIR ASSETS.
AND AS A RESULT, THE WAR WOULD BE SPREAD INTO THE WHOLE REGION.
SO THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCES, THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE U.S.
AGGRESSION AGAINST US. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
AMNA: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER RECENT STRIKE THAT
KILLED MORE THAN 170 PEOPLE IN MINAB, IN SOUTHERN IRAN.
IT WAS AT A GIRLS' SCHOOL. WE'VE HEARD FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP
WHO SAID THIS WEEKEND HE DENIED ANY U.S. INVOLVEMENT.
ON SATURDAY, HE ACTUALLY SAID, BASED ON WHAT I'VE SEEN, THAT
WAS DONE BY IRAN. YOU HAVE SAID THAT STRIKE WOULD
NOT GO UNANSWERED. WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?
>> WELL, THIS IS RIDICULOUS. I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, ALL U.S.
MEDIAS AND DIFFERENT SOURCES FROM AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE AND
AMERICAN MEDIA, EVERYBODY HAVE ADMITTED THAT THIS IS DONE BY AN
AMERICAN MISSILE. THERE ARE FOOTAGES OF THAT.
THE FOOTAGES ARE ANALYZED BY, YOU KNOW, NEUTRAL SOURCES.
AND IT IS NOW A CONSENSUS THAT THE ATTACK IS MADE BY THE UNITED
STATES, AND THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF THE KILLING OF 168 SCHOOL
GIRLS, WHO WERE ABSOLUTELY INNOCENT.
THEY HAD SET IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AND THEY ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY
WERE KILLED BY AMERICAN MILITARY.
AMNA: AND WE'VE HEARD FROM THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, AN
INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING. BUT IN SAYING THAT THAT STRIKE
WILL NOT GO UNANSWERED, I SHOULD NOTE THAT IRANIAN STRIKES IN
OTHER NATIONS HAVE ALREADY KILLED CIVILIANS.
ARE YOU SAYING NOW THAT CIVILIANS ARE FAIR TARGETS IN
OTHER NATIONS? >> NO, NO, NO, NOT AT ALL.
CIVILIANS ARE NOT TARGET. MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN SOME
COLLATERAL DAMAGES, WHICH IS QUITE, YOU KNOW, NATURAL IN ANY
WAR. BUT WE HAVE NOT TARGETED,
CONTRARY TO AMERICANS WHO DELIBERATELY TARGETED OUR
SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS AND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, EVEN, YOU KNOW,
FRESHWATER DESALINATION. WE HAVE NEVER TARGETED ANY
CIVILIAN, YOU KNOW, LOCATION, ANY CIVILIAN PURPOSE, ANY
CIVILIAN PLACE. THERE MIGHT BE SOME COLLATERAL
DAMAGES, AS I SAID, BUT THIS IS NOT OUR PLAN TO DO THAT.
AMNA: YOUR STRIKES IN SOME OF YOUR NEIGHBORING NATIONS,
THOUGH, HAVE HIT A HOTEL. THEY'VE HIT OIL FACILITIES AS
WELL. WE'VE HEARD FROM SAUDI ARABIA'S
FOREIGN MINISTER, WHO'S CONDEMNING THOSE ATTACKS AND
WARNING THAT IT RETAINS ITS FULL RIGHT TO TAKE ALL NECESSARY
MEASURES TO SAFEGUARD ITS SECURITY.
ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE REGIONAL IMPACT OF YOUR STRIKES
IN THE NEIGHBORING NATIONS, THAT YOU WILL DAMAGE IRANIAN
RELATIONS IN THE LONG RUN?
>> WELL, IF THEY HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS TO TAKE ALL NECESSARY
MEASURES TO PROTECT THEIR FACILITIES, I THINK WE ARE EVEN,
YOU KNOW. WE HAVE MORE RIGHTS TO TO TAKE
ALL NECESSARY MEASURES TO DEFEND OURSELVES, TO PROTECT OUR
PEOPLE. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE
DOING. KNOW THIS.
THIS IS NOT OUR WAR. THIS IS NOT OUR CHOICE.
THIS WAR IS IMPOSED ON US. WE ARE UNDER AGGRESSION AND WE
ARE DEFENDING OURSELVES. THEY CANNOT ACCUSE US FOR THINGS
WHICH HAPPEN ON THE OTHER SIDE. THEY SHOULD ACCUSE THOSE WHO
STARTED THIS WAR, AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE
FOR ANY DAMAGE INSIDE IRAN AND IN THE REGION, BECAUSE
EVERYTHING HAS STARTED BY THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL.
AMNA: U.S. OFFICIALS HAVE NOTED THAT THEY'RE TARGETING YOUR
NUCLEAR PROGRAMS, YOUR BALLISTIC MISSILE AND DRONE PROGRAMS, YOUR
NAVAL ASSETS. THERE ARE SOME WHO'VE POINTED
OUT THEY'RE ALSO TARGETING HEADQUARTERS AND FACILITIES OF
YOUR INTERNAL SECURITY FORCES. SOME OF THOSE FORCES WHO HAVE
BEEN USED TO SUPPRESS PUBLIC DISSENT IN THE PAST.
AND SOME ANALYSTS SAY THE U.S. MAY BE LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR
SOME KIND OF PUBLIC UPRISING. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE?
AND IF PROTESTERS TAKE TO THE STREETS, WILL THEY BE ALLOWED TO
PROTEST? >> WELL, WHERE ARE THOSE
PROTESTERS? WE HAVE NOW MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
IN THE STREETS RIGHT NOW IN SUPPORT OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC,
IN SUPPORT OF THE NEW SUPREME LEADER, IN SUPPORT OF THEIR
MILITARY, ARMED FORCES. WHERE ARE THOSE PROTESTERS?
PEOPLE ARE -- THE BIG MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE NOW ANGRY ABOUT
THIS AGGRESSION. THEY ARE SUPPORTING, YOU KNOW,
OUR ARMED FORCES. THEY ARE IN THE STREETS WITH THE
IRANIAN FLAGS EVERYWHERE. O WHERE ARE THOSE ACCUSATIONS
COME FROM? YES, THEY HAVE ATTACKED MANY OF
OUR FACILITIES. THEY HAVE ATTACKED OUR NUCLEAR
FACILITIES, BUT THEY COULDN'T DESTROY OUR NUCLEAR PROGRAM,
BECAUSE IT IS A TECHNOLOGY ADVANCED AND DEVELOPED BY
OURSELVES. THEY HAVE ALSO ATTACKED OUR
MISSILE FACILITIES, BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO STOP
FIRING MISSILES AGAINST THEMSELVES.
SO THE FIRING CONTINUES, AND WE ARE PREPARED.
WE ARE WELL PREPARED TO CONTINUE ATTACKING THEM, WITH OUR
MISSILES AS LONG AS NEEDED. AND AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
AMNA: THAT IS THE FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAN, ABBAS ARAKI,
JOINING US TODAY. MR. FOREIGN MINISTER, THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU INDEED.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. AMNA: AND A NOTE, WE DID INVITE
WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS FOR AN INTERVIEW ON THE NEWS HOUR.
THEY DECLINED. OUR INVITATION STILL STANDS.
GEOFF: IT WAS A DAY OF MAJOR VOLATILITY IN GLOBAL ENERGY
MARKETS, AND A MOMENT OF REAL CONCERN FOR CONSUMERS.
OIL PRICES BRIEFLY SURGED OVERNIGHT, COMING CLOSE TO $120
A BARREL, LEVELS WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE 2022.
BUT BY THE END OF THE DAY, PRICES HAD FALLEN SHARPLY,
FINISHING CLOSER TO $87 A BARREL.
EVEN SO, THAT'S STILL MUCH HIGHER THAN BEFORE THE WAR
STARTED, WHEN OIL WAS TRADING CLOSER TO $72 A BARREL.
DRIVERS ARE ALREADY FEELING IT. THE NATIONAL AVERAGE PRICE OF
GASOLINE PER GALLON HAS RISEN NEARLY $.50 SINCE THE CONFLICT
STARTED. WE'RE JOINED NOW BY DANIEL
YERGIN, VICE CHAIRMAN OF S&P GLOBAL AND A WIDELY WATCHED
EXPERT ON ENERGY, GEOPOLITICS, AND ECONOMICS.
HE'S THE AUTHOR OF SEVERAL BOOKS, INCLUDING "THE PRIZE: THE
EPIC QUEST FOR OIL MONEY AND POWER."
THANKS FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU.
GEOFF: WE HAVE SEEN EXTRAORDINARY VOLATILITY IN OIL
MARKETS, PRICES BRIEFLY SPIKING OVERNIGHT BEFORE FALLING LATER
TODAY. WHAT IS DRIVING THESE SWINGS?
>> WHAT DROVE THE PRICES UP WAS THE SHUTTING OF THE STRAIT OF
HORMUZ, THROUGH WHICH PAST 20% OF OIL AND LNG, LIQUEFIED
NATURAL GAS. AMPLIFIED BY FEAR OF THE ATTACKS
ON THE VERY EXTENSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE ARAB SIDE
OF THE GULF. THAT IS WHAT DROVE PRICES UP.
NOW THEY HAVE COME DOWN BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT SAYS THIS WAR MAY
SOON BE OVER. PRICES NOW, YOU COMPARED THEM TO
$72, BUT IF WE GO BACK TO WHERE PRICES WERE BEFORE THE MILITARY
BUILDUP BEGAN, AROUND $60, THEY ARE STILL A GOOD DEAL HIGHER,
BUT NOWHERE NEAR THE 120 YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.
GEOFF: YOU WROTE IN THE FINANCIAL TIMES THE WORLD COULD
BE FACING A POTENTIAL NIGHTMARE SCENARIO.
I HEAR YOU SAYING MARKETS ARE RESPONDING TO THE PRESIDENT'S
COMMENTS. WHAT'S THE CONCERNED THIS
CONFLICT COULD LAST FAR LONGER THAN THE PRESIDENT IS
PROJECTING? IF IT DOES, HOW DISRUPTIVE WOULD
THAT BE FOR GLOBAL ENERGY SUPPLY?
>> WHAT WOULD GET THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO WOULD BE AN EXTENDED
CLOSURE OF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, COMBINED WITH EXTENSIVE DAMAGE
TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT WOULD BE THE TYPE OF THING
THAT WOULD SEND PRICES EVEN HIGHER THAN YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT. IT WOULD HIT FINANCIAL MARKETS.
WE SAW IN THE 1970'S, COULD PUSH THE WORLD INTO RECESSION.
THAT'S THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO. AS OF THE LAST COUPLE OF HOURS,
THERE'S BEEN A RECEDING FROM THAT SPECTER.
GEOFF: THE ENERGY SECRETARY, CHRIS WRIGHT, SAID YESTERDAY HE
BELIEVES OIL TANKER TRAFFIC THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ
COULD RESUME NORMALLY SOON. >> A LARGE TANKER WENT THROUGH
THE GULF ABOUT 24 HOURS AGO, THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.
SO WE ARE STILL FOCUSED RIGHT NOW ON CONTINUING TO ATTRIT
THEIR MISSILE AND DRONE CAPABILITY, TO REDUCE THEIR
ABILITY TO DISRUPT TRAFFIC, TO ATTACK THEIR 10 NEIGHBORS THEY
HAVE BEEN ATTACKING, AND THAT WORK IS GOING TREMENDOUSLY WELL.
GEOFF: DO YOU SHARE THAT OPTIMISM?
JUST TODAY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ADDRESSING REPORTERS, AND HE
SUGGESTED THERE MIGHT BE NAVAL PROTECTION FOR TANKERS.
WOULD THAT BE APPROPRIATE OR NECESSARY?
>> THAT CERTAINLY WOULD RECALL WHAT HAPPENED IN DECADES PAST
WHEN THERE WERE CONVOYS THAT ESCORTED IT.
ONE BIG TANKER DID PASS THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ YESTERDAY.
IT'S ABOUT A DAY AWAY FROM ARRIVING IN INDIA.
BUT FOR PEOPLE SHIPPING, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT SHIPPING OIL
BECAUSE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT ATTACKS, DRONES, EXPLOSIVE
SPEEDBOATS. UNTIL THE SENSE OF SECURITY IS
THERE AND INSURANCE RATES COME DOWN, WE WON'T SEE THAT PASSAGE.
THAT'S A QUESTION OF HOW THE OVERALL WAR GOES.
GEOFF: IF ENERGY COSTS CONTINUE TO CLIMB, WHERE MIGHT AMERICANS
FEEL THAT THE MOST, BEYOND THE GAS PUMP?
>> THE GAS PUMP IS REALLY WHERE YOU FEEL IT MORE, BUT IT SHOWS
UP IN A LOT OF OTHER THINGS. PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT, BUT
ENERGY IS A BIG COST GOING INTO FOOD.
OUR AGRICULTURE, ABOUT 70% OF THE COST OF FOOD COMES FROM
ENERGY. THAT WOULD SHOW UP IN
TRANSPORTATION AND PROCESSING. THE ONE PEOPLE SEE EVERY DAY IS
THOSE NUMBERS ON SIGNS OUTSIDE THE GASOLINE STATIONS.
GEOFF: THE PRESIDENT MADE THE CASE THERE IS STILL PLENTY OF
OIL ON RESERVE. WHAT SHOULD AMERICANS UNDERSTAND
ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PHYSICAL SUPPLY AND THE FEAR
THAT THE MARKETS REACTED TO OVERNIGHT?
>> YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
THE PRICE YOU SEE IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE BIDDING, BECAUSE THEY ARE
WORRIED. PEOPLE START BIDDING UP THE
PRICE OF OIL AND NATURAL GAS. YOU MENTIONED STORAGE.
WE HAVE A SYSTEM OF STRATEGIC RESERVES THAT WAS ESTABLISHED
AFTER THE OIL CRISIS OF THE 1970'S TO DEAL WITH THIS TYPE OF
SITUATION. NOW THERE IS DISCUSSION AMONG
THE U.S. AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES WHO BELONG TO THE
INTERNATIONAL ENERGY AGENCY ABOUT RELEASING OIL FROM THOSE
STRATEGIC STOCKPILES. GEOFF: WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING,
BEYOND THE PRESIDENT'S RHETORIC, TO GET A SENSE OF WHERE THE
MARKET REALLY IS? >> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
OBVIOUSLY YOU LOOK AT PRICE, AND THEN ALSO WHETHER YOU START
SEEING WHERE THE SHORTFALLS SHOW UP.
YOU ASKED THE IMPACT FOR AMERICANS.
THE BIGGEST IMPACT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN IN ASIA BECAUSE 80% OF THE
OIL THAT COMES OUT OF THE STRA IT GOES TO ASIA, OVER 90% OF THE
LNG. WE GET THE REBOUND OF SHORTAGES
IN ASIA. THE BIGGEST BENEFICIARY OF HIGH
PRICES IS VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO MAKES A LOT MORE MONEY, WHICH
YOU CAN USE TO FUND HIS WAR IN UKRAINE.
GEOFF: THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR INSIGHTS WITH US.
? AMNA: IN THE DAY'S OTHER
HEADLINES, FEDERAL PROSECUTORS CHARGED TWO MEN TODAY WITH
ATTEMPTING TO SUPPORT ISIS, AFTER THEY ALLEGEDLY BROUGHT
BOMBS TO A NEW YORK CITY PROTEST THIS WEEKEND.
IBRAHIM KAYUMI AND EMIR BALAT ARE BEING HELD WITHOUT BAIL, ON
CHARGES INCLUDING ATTEMPTING TO PROVIDE MATERIAL SUPPORT TO A
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, AND USING A WEAPON OF MASS
DESTRUCTION. POLICE FOUND THE HOMEMADE
DEVICES, WHICH DID NOT EXPLODE, OUTSIDE MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI'S
OFFICIAL RESIDENCE ON SATURDAY. THE SCENE UNFOLDED DURING A
COUNTER-PROTEST TO AN ANTI-ISLAMIC DEMONSTRATION,
ORGANIZED BY FAR-RIGHT ACTIVIST JAKE LANG.
TODAY, NEW YORK'S POLICE COMMISSIONER SAID THE BOMBERS
INTENDED TO INFLICT MAXIMUM DAMAGE, CITING STATEMENTS FROM
ONE OF THE SUSPECTS, EMIR BALAT, IN PARTICULAR.
>> HE ALSO TOLD INVESTIGATORS THAT HE HAD HOPED TO CARRY OUT
AN ATTACK EVEN BIGGER THAN THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBING, WHICH
HE NOTED RESULTED IN ONLY THREE DEATHS.
THIS WAS A PLANNED ATTACK MOTIVATED BY EXTREMIST IDEALOGY
AND INSPIRED BY A VIOLENT FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.
AMNA: THE POLICE COMMISSIONER ALSO SAID THERE ARE NO
INDICATIONS THAT THE ATTACK WAS CONNECTED TO THE ONGOING WAR
WITH IRAN. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAYS IT
HAS REACHED A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT IN ITS ANTI-TRUST
LAWSUIT AGAINST TICKETMASTER AND ITS PARENT COMPANY, LIVE NATION.
UNDER THE TERMS OF THE DEAL, LIVE NATION WOULD PAY UP TO $280
MILLION IN FINES, AND DIVEST OWNERSHIP OF 13 AMPHITHEATERS.
IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW VENUES TO USE OTHER VENDORS TO SELL
TICKETS, AND CAP SERVICE FEES, WHICH COULD POTENTIALY LEAD TO
LOWER PRICES FOR CONSUMERS. BUT IT SPARES THE BUSINESS FROM
BEING SPLIT APART, LEAVING SOME STATES WORRIED THAT IT REMAINS A
MONOPOLY. THE DEAL STILL MUST BE APPROVED
BY A JUDGE, AND SOME STATES SAY THEY'LL CARRY ON WITH THE
ONGOING TRIAL IN NEW YORK. SECURITY LINES AT AIRPORTS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY STRETCHED FOR HOURS AGAIN TODAY, AS MORE TSA
AGENTS ARE CALLING OFF WORK DUE TO THE PARTIAL GOVERNMENT
SHUTDOWN. AT HOUSTON'S HOBBY AIRPORT,
PASSENGERS WERE ADVISED TO ARRIVE FOUR HOURS BEFORE THEIR
FLIGHTS. THE DELAYS ARE LINGERING AFTER A
TRAVEL NIGHTMARE THIS WEEKEND. >> WE ARE GOING ON TWO HOURS
RIGHT NOW IN TSA'S LINE. RIGHT NOW, I'M TRYING TO KEEP
HIGH SPIRITS RIGHT NOW TO KEEP EVERYBODY ELSE UP, BUT
EVERYONE'S IN A BAD MOOD, HOT AND SWEATY AND EVERYTHING.
>> COME ON, TWO LINES, TWO ESCALATORS, LET'S GO!
AMNA: IN NEW ORLEANS, LINES SNAKED THROUGH THE CONCOURSE AND
OUT INTO THE PARKING GARAGE AS AIRPORT OFFICIALS WARNED OF A
TWO-HOUR WAIT THERE. THE PARTIAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN
OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, WHICH OVERSEES THE
TSA, STARTED NEARLY A MONTH AGO. AROUND 50,000 AIRPORT SCREENERS
HAVE BEEN WORKING WITHOUT PAY. AI COMPANY ANTHROPIC IS SUING
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AFTER OFFICIALS LABELED IT A SUPPLY
CHAIN RISK, RENDERING IT INELIGIBLE FOR GOVERNMENT
CONTRACTS. IT CAME AFTER THE COMPANY SAID
IT DID NOT WANT ITS TECHNOLOGY TO BE USED FOR MASS SURVEILLANCE
OF U.S. CITIZENS, OR FOR AUTONOMOUS LETHAL WEAPONS.
IN A PAIR OF LAWSUITS, ANTHROPIC CALLED THE DESIGNATION
, QUOTE, UNPRECEDENTED AND UNLAWFUL, SAYING, QUOTE, THE
CONSTITUTION DOES NOT ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO WIELD ITS ENORMOUS
POWER TO PUNISH A COMPANY FOR ITS PROTECTED SPEECH.
DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH HAD INSISTED THAT ANTHROPIC
ACCEPT ALL LAWFUL USES OF ITS TECHNOLOGY, AND THREATENED TO
PUNISH THE COMPANY IF IT FAILED TO COMPLY.
AUSTRALIA HAS GRANTED ASYLUM TO FIVE MEMBERS OF THE IRANIAN
WOMEN'S SOCCER TEAM. THEY WERE IN THE COUNTRY FOR THE
WOMEN'S ASIAN CUP LAST MONTH, BEFORE THE WAR BEGAN.
AUSTRALIA'S HOME AFFAIRS MINISTER SAID THEY HAD BEEN
MOVED TO A, QUOTE, "SAFE LOCATION" BY FEDERAL POLICE
OFFICERS, AND HE ADDED, ASYLUM WAS OFFERED TO OTHER TEAM
MEMBERS AS WELL. IRAN WAS KNOCKED OUT OF THE
TOURNMAMENT OVER THE WEEKEND, AND WAS FACING THE PROSPECT OF
RETURNING TO A HOME COUNTRY UNDER BOMBARDMENT.
ON WALL STREET TODAY, STOCKS ERASED EARLIER LOSSES TO END
HIGHER. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
ADDED NEARLY 240 POINTS ON THE DAY.
THE NASDAQ ROSE MORE THAN 300 POINTS.
THE S&P 500 ALSO MANAGED A DECENT GAIN.
AND WE HAVE TWO PASSINGS OF NOTE THIS EVENING, STARTING WITH
FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE AND WATERGATE FIGURE ALEXANDER
BUTTERFIELD. DURING SENATE HEARINGS IN 1973,
BUTTERFIELD REVEALED THE EXISTENCE OF A SECRET RECORDING
SYSTEM INSIDE THE NIXON WHITE HOUSE.
>> MR. BUTTERFIELD, ARE YOU AWARE OF THE INSTALLATION OF ANY
LISTENING DEVICES IN THE OVAL OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT?
> I WAS AWARE OF LISTENING DEVICES.
YES, SIR. >> WHEN WERE THOSE DEVICES
PLACED IN THE OVAL OFFICE? AMNA: HIS TESTIMONY SHOCKED A
NATION, AND WOULD HELP PROVE RICHARD NIXON'S ROLE IN THE
WATERGATE COVER-UP. HE RESIGNED THE PRESIDENCY THE
FOLLOWING YEAR. BUTTERFIELD ALSO SERVED AS HEAD
OF THE FAA AND AS A BUSINESS EXECUTIVE IN CALIFORNIA.
IN LATER YEARS, BUTTERFIELD SAID HE DIDN'T EXPECT HIS TESTIMONY
TO LEAD TO NIXON'S DOWNFALL, BUT CONSIDERED HIM A CROOK AND
CHEERED WHEN HE LEFT OFFICE. ALEXANDER BUTTERFIELD WAS 99
YEARS OLD. AND THE MUSICIAN KNOWN AS
"COUNTRY" JOE MCDONALD HAS DIED. HIS PERFORMANCE AT WOODSTOCK IN
1969 WAS A HIGHLIGHT OF THE EVENT, AND A SYMBOL OF THE
TIMES. >> ? AND ITS 1, 2, 3
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR? DON'T ASK ME, I DON'T GIVE A
DAMN NEXT STOP IS VIETNAM ?
AMNA: MCDONALD'S ANTI-WAR SONG "I-FEEL-LIKE-I'M-FIXIN'-TO-DIE
RAG" AND ITS SING-A-LONG CHORUS WAS AN ANTHEM FOR VIETNAM WAR
PROTESTERS. HE ALSO LED THE CROWD IN A
FOUR-LETTER EXPLETIVE CHANT THAT CAPTURED THE ANGER OF THE ERA.
HE AND HIS BAND, COUNTRY JOE AND THE FISH, CAME OUT OF THE
PSYCHEDELIC ROCK SCENE OF THE BAY AREA.
MCDONALD WENT ON TO RELEASE A NUMBER OF SOLO ALBUMS OVER THE
DECADES THAT FOLLOWED. HIS WIFE SAYS HE DIED DUE TO
COMPLICATIONS FROM PARKINSONS. "COUNTRY" JOE MCDONALD WAS 84
YEARS OLD. STILL TO COME, TAMARA KEITH AND
AMY WALTER BREAK DOWN THE LATEST POLITICAL HEADLINES.
AND A PROFESSOR OF ONLINE INFORMATION JOINS OUR PBS NEWS
PODCAST TO DISCUSS HOW TO SPOT MANIPULATED IMAGES.
>> THIS IS THE PBS NEWS HOUR FROM THE DAVID M RUBENSTEIN
STUDIO AND WETA IN WASHINGTON, HEADQUARTERS OF PBS NEWS.
AMNA: RETURNING TO THE WAR WITH IRAN, PRESIDENT TRUMP SPOKE WITH
REPORTERS LATE THIS AFTERNOON AT HIS GOLF RESORT OUTSIDE MIAMI.
IN HIS FIRST FORMAL NEWS CONFERENCE SINCE THE U.S. AND
ISRAEL BEGAN STRIKES ON IRAN, THE PRESIDENT MADE A NEW THREAT.
PRES. TRUMP: WE ARE ALSO HITTING WHERE THEY MAKE MISSILES, WHERE
THEY DELIVER MISSILES. WE HAVE STRUCK OVER 5000 TARGETS
TO DATE, SOME OF THEM VERY MAJOR TARGETS, AND WE HAVE LEFT SOME
OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TARGETS FOR LATER IN CASE WE NEED TO DO
IT. IF WE HIT THEM, IT'S GOING TO
TAKE MANY YEARS FOR THEM TO BE REBUILT.
AMNA: JOINING US WITH MORE IS OUR FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND DEFENSE
CORRESPONDENT, NICK SCHIFRIN. WHEN THE PRESIDENT TALKS ABOUT
NEW TARGETS, WHAT DOES HE MEAN? NICK: THIS IS NEW.
WE HAVE NOT HEARD THIS FROM HIM OR ANY OTHER U.S. OFFICIAL,
SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THE THREAT OF HITTING ELECTRICITY
PRODUCTION. THAT PRESUMABLY MEANS CIVILIAN
TARGETS, HOW THE COUNTRY KEEPS ITS LIGHTS ON.
U.S. AND ISRAELI OFFICIALS HAVE POINTED OUT IDEALLY, THEY WOULD
LEAVE SOME OF THAT INTACT BECAUSE THEY WANT THE FUTURE OF
IRAN TO BE ONE THAT THEY DEAL WITH.
THAT DEPENDS ON THE LEADERSHIP OF COURSE.
AGAIN, A NEW THREAT FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND SAYING WE
ARE NOT LOOKING TO DO THAT IF WE DON'T NEED TO, WE ARE WAITING TO
SEE WHAT HAPPENS. LEAVING ANELLIPSES AT THE END
OF THAT SENTENCE. AMNA: HE SPOKE ABOUT A TIMELINE
FOR THE WAR. WHAT DID HE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT
THAT? NICK: THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE
WE HAVE HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP LATELY SAYING MAYBE THE WAR IS
ALMOST DONE. HE HAS CITED ALL THE AIR DEFENSE
IN IRAN IS GONE, THE ABILITY FOR IRAN TO LAUNCH MISSILES IS DOWN
90%. ALL OF THE U.S. AIRSTRIKES YOU
ARE SEEING, SOME VIDEO OF HITTING DRONES.
HE SAID THE WAR WILL END VERY SOON, AND WHEN ASKED ABOUT HOW
HE COULD HELP PROTESTERS, THE ONES HE PROMISED TO HELP IN
JANUARY WHEN THOUSANDS WERE KILLED, HE SAID HE WOULD LOVE TO
HELP PROTESTERS BUT THAT THE IRANIAN SYSTEM WOULD HAVE TO,
QUOTE, ALLOW THEM TO BE HELPED, AND IF WE CANNOT HAVE A NEW
IRANIAN SYSTEM, WE MIGHT AS WELL GET OVER WITH IT RIGHT NOW.
THAT IS A VERY BIG SUGGESTION THAT SOME OF HIS ADVISERS ARE
DOUBTING WHETHER REGIME CHANGE CAN BE ACHIEVED, AND THEREFORE
ONCE THE MILITARY OBJECTIVES ARE ACHIEVED, PERHAPS THE U.S.
CANNOT FULFILL HIS PROMISE TO HELP ALL THE PROTESTERS BACK IN
JANUARY OVERTHROW THE REGIME. JUST A SUGGESTION FROM THE
PRESIDENT. WE GOT OTHER SUGGESTIONS IN THIS
PRESS CONFERENCE. BUT A BIG HINT THAT HE DID NOT
SEE A NEED TO KEEP GOING ONCE THESE MILITARY OBJECTIVES ARE
ACHIEVED, AND HE SAID THEY ARE ALMOST ACHIEVED ALREADY.
AMNA: NICK SCHIFRIN WITH THE LATEST FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP,
THANK YOU. ?
GEOFF: FOR MORE ON THE POLITICAL FALLOUT OF THE MILITARY ACTION
IN IRAN, WE ARE JOINED NOW BY OUR POLITICS MONDAY DUO.
THAT IS AMY WALTER OF THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT WITH AMY WALTER
AND TAMARA KEITH OF NPR. IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH.
TAM, HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE GATHERED AT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
GOLF CLUB JUST OUTSIDE MIAMI AS THE MIDTERM SEASON STARTS TO
TAKE SHAPE. THE BACKDROP IS COMPLICATED.
THE COST-OF-LIVING REMAINS HIGH. WE HAVE THE ADMINISTRATION
OPENING A MILITARY CONFRONTATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITHOUT A
CLEARLY ARTICULATED STRATEGY TO THE PUBLIC.
WHAT WENT DOWN IN DORAL TODAY, WHAT'S THE MESSAGE FROM
REPUBLICANS, AND HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH REALITY?
TAMARA: PRESIDENT TRUMP PITCHED REPUBLICANS ON PASSING WHAT HE
IS CALLING THE SAVE AMERICA ACT. HE DELIVERED A LOT OF REMARKS,
IT WAS WIDE-RANGING, BUT HIS ARGUMENT WAS IF REPUBLICANS
COULD PASS THAT, THEY COULD WIN THEM IN TERMS.
THAT IS A BILL THAT MAY NEVER BECOME A LAW BECAUSE THERE ARE
PROBLEMS IN THE SENATE GETTING IT THROUGH.
BUT IT IS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT WOULD REQUIRE NOT JUST
VOTER ID, BUT PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP IN ORDER TO VOTE.
HE ALSO WANTS THE HOUSE TO REOPEN IT AND TACK ON ITEMS
RELATED TO TRANSGENDER PEOPLE AND SPORTS AND MEDICAL
PROCEDURES. IT IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT SEES AS
THE GOLD-MEDAL LEGISLATION THAT CAN BE THEIR ENTIRE MESSAGE FOR
THE MIDTERMS. AND AS AN ADDED BONUS, HE IS
ARGUING DEMOCRATS WON'T BE ABLE TO WIN IF THEY CAN'T CHEAT.
THERE IS A LOT UNDERLYING THAT, BUT THAT IS HIS PITCH TO
REPUBLICANS. HE SAID TODAY, HE HAS SAID ON
SOCIAL MEDIA, HE IS NOT GOING TO SIGN OTHER LEGISLATION UNTIL
THIS IS ON HIS DESK. WHICH, I DON'T KNOW IF HE CAN
HOLD TO THAT. AMY: IT IS QUITE REMARKABLE WHEN
YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HE SAID TODAY IN FLORIDA AND WHAT THE
WHITE HOUSE AIDES HAVE BEEN SAYING TO REPUBLICANS THE LAST
FEW WEEKS. WHICH IS DON'T WORRY, WE ARE
GOING TO TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY NONSTOP.
THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO GO ON TOUR, HE IS GOING TO TALK UP
WHAT YOU ALL DID, REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS, TO PASS THIS TAX CUT.
WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.
MAYBE THERE IS EVEN THE OPPORTUNITY -- THIS ISN'T THE
WHITE HOUSE SAYING THIS, BUT THIS HAS BEEN BANDIED ABOUT --
OF A RECONCILIATION BILL THAT WOULD BE REPUBLICAN ONLY THAT
WOULD ALSO TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.
THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE FOR VOTERS.
IT IS PRETTY CLEAR -- WE SAW IT AT THE STATE OF THE UNION, WE
ARE HEARING IT NOW, THAT IDEA OF A PRESIDENT RUNNING ON AN
AFFORDABILITY AGENDA OR PROMOTING THAT IS JUST NOT GOING
TO HAPPEN. GEOFF: THE PRESIDENT SPEAKING TO
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES TODAY SAID, NO OTHER PRESIDENT COULD
DO SOME OF THE EXPLETIVE I'M DOING.
THERE ARE REPUBLICANS WHO WISH HE WAS DOING LESS.
WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF ANXIETY? >> HE IS NOT WRONG.
GEOFF: HE'S NOT WRONG, BUT WHAT THE LEVEL OF ANXIETY AMONG
REPUBLICANS HEADING INTO THE MIDTERMS?
>> FOR MANY, THERE IS A SENSE OF RESIGNATION.
THEY HAVE A VERY NARROW MAJORITY ON THE HOUSE SIDE.
IT IS UNLIKELY, IT IS VERY CHALLENGING FOR ANY PARTY TO DO
WELL IN A MIDTERM ELECTION, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PRESIDENT'S
APPROVAL RATING IS WHERE IT IS. THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME
RESIGNATION THAT IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO KEEP THE HOUSE.
I THINK THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SOME SENSE -- AND THEY HAVE TO
DO TWO THINGS. THEY NEED TO KEEP LOSSES AT
LEAST MANAGEABLE SO IT'S NOT A BLOWOUT.
AND THE SENATE BECOMES THE REAL QUESTION MARK.
IF YOU SEE HIGHER LEVEL OF CONCERN AMONG REPUBLICANS, IT
WOULD BE IF THEY ARE WORRIED THAT THE SENATE IS NOW ALSO ON
THE LINE. RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T BELIEVE
THAT. I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT THEY WOULD LIKE FOR THE PRESIDENT TO AT LEAST ENSURE
THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. GEOFF: ON IRAN, THERE ARE
REPORTS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS SURPRISED BY THE SCALE OF IRAN'S
RETALIATION IN THE GULF, THE NUMBER OF DRONES AND MISSILES
FILED -- FIRED AT THE UAE AND AT CIVILIAN TARGETS.
WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT HOW PREPARED THE ADMINISTRATION WAS
FOR THE CONSEQUENCES, INTENDED AND OTHERWISE?
>> I WOULD LIKE TO JUMP TO ANOTHER CONSEQUENCE THAT I THINK
IS CLEARLY WEIGHING ON THE PRESIDENT, OIL AND GAS PRICES.
THAT AFFECTS VOTERS IMMEDIATELY THE SECOND THEY FILL UP THEIR
GAS TANKS. IT UNDERCUTS THE AFFORDABILITY
AGENDA THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
HE HAS MOSTLY BEEN DISMISSING AFFORDABILITY, AND HE HAS
REPEATEDLY, INCLUDING IN HIS STATE OF THE UNION, TOUTED THESE
RECORD LOW -- NOT REALLY RECORD -- VERY LOW GAS PRICES WERE
GOING TO BE THE SOLUTION TO ALL THE ELEMENTS ON AFFORDABILITY --
ALL THE AILMENTS ON AFFORDABILITY.
HE IS SAYING THEY KNEW OIL PRICES WOULD RISE AS A RESULT OF
THIS WAR. BUT THEY ARE RISING NOW, AND HE
IS SUDDENLY TALKING ABOUT THIS AS JUST A SHORT-TERM EXCURSION.
WE ARE GOING TO FIX THIS BECAUSE WE NEED TO FIX THE OIL PRICES,
WE NEED TO FIX THE GAS PRICES. GEOFF: THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO
SPEAK IT INTO EXISTENCE. >> YES.
IT IS TRUE, IF THIS DOES INDEED BECOME SOMETHING SHORT-LIVED,
THE U.S. MILITARY PRESENCE IN IRAN, IF WE GET GAS PRICES, OIL
PRICES GO DOWN, THEN YES, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE WILL BE
TALKING ABOUT IN NOVEMBER. HOWEVER, IT IS ONE MORE REMINDER
TO A LOT OF VOTERS OF THE CHAOS THEY ARE FEELING IN THEIR LIVES
WHEN IT COMES TO THE COST OF STUFF.
>> REPEATEDLY POLLS -- THIS WAS BEFORE THE IRAN WAR -- BUT POLLS
HAVE SHOWN VOTERS SAYING THEY BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT ISN'T
FOCUSED ON THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST TO THEM.
I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A LOT OF SWING VOTERS.
WHETHER THEY SUPPORT HIM OR NOT, EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS SAID THE
ECONOMY IS THEIR NUMBER ONE ISSUE.
AND THIS WAR IS AFFECTING, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY, MAYBE LONGER
TERM, THE ECONOMY IN A WAY THAT IS COUNTER TO WHAT THE PRESIDENT
PROMISED WHEN HE RAN FOR OFFICE. >> I TALKED TO A REPUBLICAN
STRATEGIST WHO BASICALLY SAID, WHAT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE AS
REPUBLICANS IS TO SEE THE PRESIDENT DECLARE WAR ON THE
PRICE OF GROCERIES. RATHER THAN MAKING THE FOCUS ON
IRAN. GEOFF: AMY WALTER AND TAMARA
KEITH, THANKS TO YOU BOTH. ?
AMNA: AND WE'LL BE BACK SHORTLY WITH AN EXCERPT FROM OUR "SETTLE
IN" PODCAST THAT WILL HELP YOU IDENTIFY FAKES ON THE INTERNET.
GEOFF: BUT FIRST, TAKE A MOMENT TO HEAR FROM YOUR LOCAL PBS
STATION.
independence and integrity,
and it's all thanks to your
is more important than ever
Good from Wisconsin Public
several reasons. One being,
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your support actually helps
other reason it's sor. The
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And when you do make that
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even have to choose. At $25
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It starts with your call to
>> Hello, my name is Aaron
supporter of PBS Wisconsin.
PBS Wisconsin remains at
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increasing your giving. As
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Use that QR code on youre.
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and I if you give it anyh,
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>> So much.636.
NewsHour is the most PBS
in the country. And it isn
that possible. All of that
journalists, not only are
business of journalism, but
they have to hold to. Youds
facts. You are getting the
get both sides of the story
your own opinion. And that
in these divisive times. So
for PBS NewsHour and all of
hear or that you see hereou
on PBS Wisconsin.AMNA: AND WE TURN NOW TO OUR PBS VIDEO PODCAST, "SETTLE IN."
FOR OUR LATEST EPISODE, I SPOKE TO PIONEERING DIGITAL FORENSIC
EXPERT HANY FARID. WE TALKED ABOUT WHY
DISINFORMATION SPREADS ONLINE, HOW TO FIND RELIABLE SOURCES OF
INFORMATION, AND WHY HE'S STILL HOPEFUL ABOUT OUR DIGITAL
FUTURE. >> THE THING YOU HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA IS NOT ONLY DOES IT NOT CARE ABOUT
REAL, FAKE, TRUE, LIES. IN FACT, IT ACTUALLY PREFERS
ALGORITHMICALLY THE SPREAD OF MISINFORMATION BECAUSE THAT'S
WHAT LEADS TO USER ENGAGEMENT. SO THE ALGORITHMS HAVE LEARNED
HOW TO SPREAD THE MOST SALACIOUS, OUTRAGEOUS,
CONSPIRATORIAL CONTENT, BECAUSE THAT WHAT THE BILLIONS OF PEOPLE
ONLINE CLICK ON. AND SO IN MANY WAYS, WE'VE KNOWN
THIS FOR A LONG TIME, IS THE LIES SPREAD MUCH, MUCH FASTER
THAN THE TRUTH. WHICH OF COURSE ADDS A WHOLE
OTHER COMPLEXITY TO THE SPEED WITH WHICH WE HAVE TO RESPOND
AND ALSO THE CONSEQUENCES FOR GETTING IT WRONG.
AMNA: I MEAN, YOU JUST SAID SOMETHING FASCINATING, THOUGH.
IT'S NOT JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE SPREADING THESE THINGS, BECAUSE
THEY DO. IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE RAGE BAIT
WAS THE WORD OF THE YEAR LAST YEAR, RIGHT?
BUT IT'S THAT THE ALGORITHMS ACTUALLY PREFER THEM OVER REAL
INFORMATION OR REAL IMAGES. >> THAT'S 100% RIGHT.
AND THE REASON, OF COURSE, IS BECAUSE THE BUSINESS MODEL OF
SOCIAL MEDIA -- THINK X, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, TIKTOK, ET
CETERA -- IS USER ENGAGEMENT. THE MORE YOU CLICK, THE MORE ADS
WE DELIVER, THE MORE MONEY THEY MAKE.
AND SO THE ALGORITHMS, THEY DIDN'T SET OUT TO BURN THE PLACE
TO THE GROUND. IT WAS LEARNED.
AND YOU COULD BLAME THE SOCIAL MEDIA GIANTS FOR THIS, AND I
THINK WE SHOULD, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE THE ONES
CLICKING ON THOSE POSTS. WE ARE THE ONES TEACHING THE
MACHINES THAT THIS IS WHAT WE WILL ENGAGE WITH.
AND SO, YEAH, IT'S LEARNED THAT, WELL, WHEN THE USER CLICKS ON
THIS, GIVE THEM MORE OF THIS. AND RAGEBAIT WORKS.
CLICKBAIT WORKS. WE CLICK ON IT.
SO WE HAVE TO RETURN TO OUR TRUSTED SOURCES.
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU WORK REALLY HARD
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD.
THEY TALK TO PEOPLE LIKE ME TO UNDERSTAND IT AND TO BRING THAT
INFORMATION TO YOU. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD IN THE FIRST 10 SECONDS OF AN
EVENT. THERE IS A SPEED-ACCURACY
TRADE-OFF. THE FASTER YOU GET YOUR
INFORMATION, THE LESS ACCURATE IT IS.
I WOULD MUCH, MUCH RATHER WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW MORNING AND KNOW
WHAT IS GOING ON THAN BE LIED TO FOR THE INTERVENING 12 HOURS.
AND WE JUST HAVE TO CHANGE THAT CULTURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND THAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS NOT DESIGNED AS A RELIABLE
SOURCE OF INFORMATION. IT'S NOT, IT NEVER HAS AND IT
NEVER WILL. AMNA: THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS
DO GET THEIR NEWS AND INFORMATION FROM SOCIAL MEDIA.
THAT'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. WHAT YOU'RE CALLING FOR IS AN
ENORMOUS CULTURAL SHIFT, THE LIKES OF WHICH WE ARE DEFINITELY
NOT TRENDING TOWARDS, RIGHT? SO JUST CULTURALLY, SHORT OF
EVEN POLICY GUIDELINES OR COMPANIES AND CEO'S COMPLETELY
CHANGING HOW THEY DO THEIR WORK, HOW DOES THAT KIND OF THING
START? >> SO FIRST, I'M NOT NAIVE ABOUT
THIS IS A MASSIVE CULTURAL -- AND NOT JUST HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES, BUT GLOBALLY. BUT I'M ALSO OLD ENOUGH TO
REMEMBER WHEN SOMETHING LIKE ONE THIRD OF AMERICANS SMOKED
CIGARETTES. AND WE THOUGHT THAT'S JUST THE
WAY IT IS. AND WE SMOKED IN GROCERY STORES.
WE SMOKED IN RESTAURANTS. WE SMOKED ON AIRPLANES, FOR
GOD'S SAKES. AND IT WAS THE NORM.
BUT WE CHANGED, BECAUSE WE REALIZED THAT THIS STUFF IS
KILLING US. AND I WOULD ARGUE SOCIAL MEDIA
IS NOT THAT DIFFERENT. NOW, I DON'T THINK THAT CHANGE
WILL HAPPEN SLOWLY. I DON'T THINK IT WILL COME
WITHOUT PRESSURE FROM CONGRESS, FROM OUR REGULATORS, WITH
LIABILITY FROM THE COURTS HOLDING THESE COMPANIES
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HARMS. THE PARALLELS TO TOBACCO ARE NOT
FAR OFF. THE GOOD NEWS IS, I THINK
THERE'S AT LEAST A GLIMMER OF HOPE IN THE HORIZON.
SO IF YOU LOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY, THERE ARE MASSIVE
LITIGATIONS HAPPENING AROUND SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE ADDICTIVE
PROPERTIES AND THE IMPACT TO CHILDREN IN A WAY THAT I THINK
10 YEARS AGO I DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD SEE THESE CASES.
AND SO THERE IS MOVEMENT. AUSTRALIA HAS BANNED SOCIAL
MEDIA FOR KIDS UNDER THE AGE OF 16.
THE EU AND THE UK AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ARE
CONSIDERING SIMILAR LEGISLATION. I THINK THERE IS AN AWAKENING
THAT, WHILE THERE ARE POSITIVE ASPECTS TO THESE TECHNOLOGIES,
TO SOCIAL MEDIA, IT IS CLEAR THE HARMS ARE UNAMBIGUOUS.
IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF CONVERSATION, A LOT OF SERIOUS
PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT THIS IN A SERIOUS WAY.
AND IT WILL TAKE FIGHTING BACK AGAINST MASSIVE, MASSIVE GLOBAL
CORPORATE INTERESTS. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER
OPTION IS. AMNA: YOU CAN WATCH THAT FULL
CONVERSATION AND ALL THE EPISODES OF "SETTLE IN" ON OUR
YOUTUBE CHANNEL OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.
GEOFF: THAT'S THE NEWS FOR TONIGHT.
I'M GEOFF BENNETT. AMNA: AND I'M AMNA NAWAZ.
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> YOU'RE W
WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS > YOU'RE WNTENT AND ACCURACY.] [bright instrumental music]
- The following program
is a PBS Wisconsin original production.
[soft music]
[indistinct chatter]
- You wanna do any talking on the stage today?
- No, no.
- No Q&A? - No.
- You wanna go up and just say, "This is me"?
- No. - Nothing? Okay.
- I'll stand up in the back if you want...
- Over the years, I've written on Ojibwe artists
because I'm interested
in the recovery of Anishinaabe art.
Rabbett's style is entirely different.
Native artists are not in that same classical era that he is.
That it takes three weeks for something to dry,
'cause it's some real old oil paint.
- Rabbett Strickland: I don't even have a phone, so...
- Hello, Rabbett. - Hey.
- Good to see you again. Congratulations.
- We'll have to sit and talk real quick.
- Awesome show. - Yeah.
- He makes the stuff because he has to.
It's an imperative that he makes those works.
It's a bonus if they go out into the world
and people see them, people buy them,
people love them, people tell him that--
that's all bonus stuff.
It's not about any of that.
It's about the physical act.
It's about the creation of it.
- Like fan brushes?
- Yes, yes. I love fan brushes.
- I apply that, and then I matte the whole thing.
- [speaking indistinctly]
- So, you know, it takes a little more time.
- Whatever Rabbett does is beyond wonderful.
- There's nobody who paints like him.
I mean, he paints in the style of an Italian master.
- Is that chili still there?
- Yes. [laughs]
The pie-- the pie is gone, though.
- The pie is gone? - [laughs]
- Well, I started a new painting, so I...
- He's a craftsman. He's a worker.
I really admire workers.
And then, he's one of the most interesting people
I've ever met, for sure.
One of the best pure artists I've ever met,
and there aren't very many of those people around.
? ?
- Announcer: Rabbett Before Horses
was funded, in part, by
John and Carolyn Peterson Charitable Foundation,
Ron and Patricia Anderson,
John and Barbara McFarland,
Estate of Esther M. Schenk,
Ruth St. John and John Dunham West Foundation
with additional support from
Bitzer Family Legacy Fund,
John J. Frautschi Family Foundation,
Pat and Judy Sebranek,
Wisconsin Arts Board
with funds from the State of Wisconsin
and National Endowment for the Arts,
Focus Fund for Wisconsin Programming,
and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
- She's saying something.
She talks the same way to the other cats.
[chuckles]
Hi, Girls.
Hey, get off that!
Those are eagle feathers, you...
Get out of there!
[chuckles]
Get off. [stammers]
Come on, get off!
It wasn't even funny, Girls.
You put holes in those feathers.
[chuckles]
[laughing]
[laughs] Don't even care.
Little pest.
Well, I grew up around it.
My mother was always painting, so...
I just-- I don't know,
as a teenager, just started.
Around 14.
I was always drawing, though, cartoons and stuff, yeah.
That's from my mother.
More violet in here.
My mother grew up here,
and then their mother died,
and they went down to the orphanage in St. Paul.
In the '20s--
'30s, actually, is when they left.
They were all artists.
My mother was...
her sister was, her brother was,
her other brother was...
That's John,
my uncle John.
Commercial artist in Minneapolis.
Those are charcoals that you see,
that he's got laid out.
Then he came out to San Francisco,
where, uh, my mother went after the war.
That's my mother--
next picture is my mother, Beatrice.
That's Mary VanderVenter, my grandmother.
She was the daughter of Madeline Cadotte VanderVenter
who was the daughter of, uh,
Ogimaakwe from Bad River.
That's how she wrote her name on the Allotment Act.
And she married Frank Cadotte. That was her dad.
Frank Cadotte named his daughter after his mother,
which was...
yeah, you know.
Sometimes my mother brought some stuff up, but not a lot.
Traditional stories in San Francisco.
'Cause they were working,
$100 a month for those projects
that they built for the military.
The projects back then are just crap.
Sunnydale Projects.
Very few blacks, lot of Spanish,
so if you were ethnic looking, you were just Spanish.
You know, you're not Indian.
And I was really tall.
I remember that all my friends were short. [chuckles]
Just because both my mother
and my Aunt Teresa were artists,
you're immersed in it.
All the way up to junior high, I remember that.
When I was, uh, like,
uh, 16 and stuff, I made a lot of charts.
Tons of charts.
Just-- and making up colors, you know, just having...
I had these 18x24 sheets of paper,
and I was just making
50, you know, shades of lavender, you know, and purple.
I don't know why, I just did it.
Different reds and, you know, just working with 'em.
And then I just, uh,
I even studied pictures, like of Peter Paul Rubens.
He had some nice stuff,
with vermilion and Naples yellow
and-- wasn't really a red.
It looks like an orange-red, the capes and stuff.
Yeah, that's vermilion and Naples yellow
and maybe a little burnt sienna in there.
I use that.
That's what I'm gonna use next when I redo him.
First thing I did was, uh, a copy of somebody's.
It was, uh, Zeus shooting a thunderbolt from a cloud.
Real anatomical.
? ?
- I'm Steve Cotherman,
Director of the Washburn Cultural Center,
and I used to manage the museum
on Madeline Island for 25 summers.
Rabbett came to my attention at the museum,
and we've gotten to know each other a little bit.
I found out all these other things
that he was interested in,
that he was a musician
and had grown up in San Francisco.
You know, Rabbett's a bit of an autodidact
in a way, you know.
I just got this-- the feeling
that he just absorbs everything around him
and really doesn't...
we never talked about formal education.
Let me put it to you that way.
Never, never-- he never told me,
"I went to this college, and I did this,
and I did that, and then..."
It was just, like,
"I soaked up all this stuff," you know.
"I went to the Palace of the Legion of Honor
"in San Francisco when I was a kid,
"and I drew copies of Caravaggio
"and the masters and I just, you know,
did all this stuff,"
and I can just picture him as a kid,
hanging out at the museums in San Francisco.
Looking at the work and drawing it
and thinking about it and absorbing it
and all of that-- I can just picture it.
And then I get the good, warm feelings from it.
- Strickland: Here I was, you know, younger
and copying all this Greek mythology,
and you know, like digging the satyrs
and the centaurs and all that stuff.
Especially the satyrs, you know, Pan and stuff.
And I said, "Well, there it is," you know.
Here I was trying to do Greek mythology,
and I can do my own mythology.
Anishinaabe mythology.
I just went out on my own, just to do free flow,
see what I could do,
and that was the first one that came out.
It's crossed over, that's just amazing.
It was like it was waiting to come, you know?
[light music]
I was homeless in San Francisco
for a couple years, and when I was on the street,
I got meat packing paper.
You know, it comes in a roll, three feet,
as long as you want.
So I had a roll of that.
Not a whole roll. Maybe 30 feet.
And I would go to these places where they're--
they do construction, and they do, like,
maybe 15 buildings or whatever, you know, at a time.
They do-- but what they would do is do something here,
the next one...
so by the time they would get halfway down,
I would sleep in this one, you know, I would go here.
And that's where I would draw.
I would draw in these-- I used Prismacolors.
Pencils, colored pencils.
Stole them.
Pearl Art on Market Street. [chuckles]
Like a buck apiece, I think.
But the most I took was the black.
You use 'em just like an oil.
So, I did that for about two years.
That was horrible. [laughs]
There was this church
that opened, like, at 4:00 in the morning,
and it had a bathroom when you went right in,
and I would use that in the morning...
to clean up.
So I-- a lot of the homeless people I saw
don't look like they bothered cleaning up.
And I had a backpack,
and I had one change of clothes.
That's what was in the backpack.
And I had the pencils,
and I had the tube for the meat packing paper.
? ?
[laughs]
Janine Antoine had the gallery going
for native artists on the West Coast.
I got 'em down there.
Not many of those--
there's probably eight of those.
They took a long time to do.
Just like painting,
they had about three coats of Prismacolor.
That didn't last long, though. Good thing.
Good thing it ain't cold in San Francisco.
Jesus.
Yeah, it gets hard.
But I kept drawing.
I stopped using reference.
I stopped copying things at 28,
and so it was like a four-year transition
into accepting...
what I could do on my own.
And then the dreams started.
It was just, uh, a group of figures,
just moving all together, and uh...
it was real murky, like underwater, and blue.
Everything was blue.
I couldn't really make out any detail.
It was like a blur, like looking through
a lens that's not in focus.
I could see hair, though,
and it just looked like they were in a lot of wind,
so I tried to figure out a way to do that,
and that's where I started using hair as wind.
And at first, it was just like a regular dream,
and I didn't know what the heck it was,
but then when they started repeating,
it was kind of strange.
I found the scribbles.
I...
apparently, I wake up in my sleep and draw.
It was always a group.
It was usually the four winds.
I figured out who they were,
'cause the winds are blowing air like Botticelli's.
And, uh, the winds flew.
So they showed up a lot in the earlier paintings.
In the air.
And, uh, the Gichi Manidoo and-- and Nokomis.
Gichi Manidoo has always got a lot of hair.
And, uh, that's probably 'cause in my, uh,
subconscious, there's a--
Medicine men had lots of long hair,
so this guy is just wrapped in hair in these dreams.
Nokomis, that means grandmother.
Very wise old woman.
Basically, just all our oral traditions go back with her.
And Nanabozho, of course,
an emissary from the Gichi Manidoo,
a planter of new medicine.
Those three stripes are high Midewin
that he carries.
The early stories I read had Nanabozho shape-shifting
into a rabbit for different reasons.
So that's why I did it.
It had nothing to do with
me being called Rabbett, you know.
All my old copying of, like, Greek mythology
and the satyrs, you know, the half-goat, half-man and...
that half-rabbit with the ears, you know,
that played into it just great.
All the paintings have him in it.
That's the deal we made. [laughing warmly]
Winona or Winoah, that's his mother.
He's the only human, really.
West Wind, that's his dad.
One day she was picking berries in the field and...
a sudden gust of wind,
that was it, conception of Nanabozho.
Yeah.
She died in childbirth,
but then I always show them like Madonna and child,
even though she wasn't there.
Nanabozho was brought up by Nokomis.
That's his grandmother.
Nanabozho's sun, Nanabozho's moon...
that's his light, and that's his dark.
So he has his own night and day that follows him,
and what gave 'em away was tattoos on their face.
Like, he has a tattoo of the sun
on half of his face,
and he had the moon on half of his face.
[laughing] Gotta be...
And the Eyes of the Dead, he was always there.
That omnipresent of all the past ancestors
that have passed away and died,
all the atrocities and everything,
it's always there; it's always present.
It's a reminder.
And the Eyes of the Dead had the eye in the spear.
Kind of was a spiritual battle, you know,
not a blood battle.
I think a lot of people make the mistake
of thinking that they're people.
They're not; They're spirits.
Manidoo, yeah.
There's 11 Manidoo I always use.
Those are the ones I've always seen in dreams.
Like a living mythology.
It's now, yeah, just adding on a little bit.
Taking from the traditions
and putting it into something new.
I'm sure many changes happen...
over a long period of time.
I'm sure each storyteller embellished,
you know, even though they think they're doing
the exact same story.
- My name is Winona LaDuke, Beenasayequay Nindizhinakaaz
from Gaa-waabaabiganikaag Ishkonigan,
from White Earth Reservation.
I travel around and speak and go to meetings,
and one day, I was in San Francisco
at the American Indian Contemporary Arts,
and I saw a postcard
of one of his paintings owned by Janine Antoine.
And I said, "Who is that who is doing that work?"
And she said, "Well, this guy named Rabbett Strickland."
I said, "He's gotta be Ojibwe."
And she said, "Yeah, he's Ojibwe."
She said, "He's living in different people's houses."
I knew that Rabbett was telling stories
of Anishinaabeg history
and our mythological beings, of our beings,
and I knew that very few people would know what that was,
but I knew what-- exactly what he was painting,
and I was wondering why he was in San Francisco
painting such a thing when the Ojibwe people
would be very interested in what he had to paint.
And so, um, four different trips to San Francisco.
Each time, I tried to find Rabbett,
and I would get closer and closer,
and he would've moved someplace or moved someplace else,
but the first time I met Rabbett,
I met him in San Francisco at a woman's house,
and I was just totally mesmerized by his painting
and by his work and the stories that he was telling,
and I'd come from far, and he knew that.
And he knew that I'd been looking for him for a while because, you know,
I'm drawn to this place
where we are here,
Moningwunakauning, our island,
and I am drawn to our stories.
And so I found him there,
and we began this long conversation
about what he was doing and where he was doing it,
and, you know, he kept saying to me,
"It's all about the walls."
He would move from house to house
according to who had big walls that were available.
You know, he had this pattern of migration
to a new place with walls
where someone would offer him some Folger's coffee,
from what I could gather,
and some light eating and a place for his cat.
- The last apartment I had in San Francisco,
he converted a Victorian to six units,
and I got one on the bottom for $900.
Real tiny, okay, this is how wide it was.
Okay, and it had one wall.
I think 8x12.
That's pretty cool. That's all I wanted.
And it had one window looking out.
You could see the Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate Bridge.
It was in Bernal Heights on top of a hill.
And I had one cat there, Booz, and I didn't have a bed.
I slept in the corner on the floor, wood floors.
One night, it was just really storming,
and this water was flying in, in the back...
so I-- I called the landlord.
He wasn't there, blah, blah.
I told him what's going on.
And so, I just ignored it for a while,
and it was filling up back there.
The drain wasn't working.
So I-- I got dressed and went out and I-- I saw it
was shooting out of the pipe, the drain pipe coming down.
It was just shooting directly in this crack,
so I blocked that, and then it stopped.
So I-- I left.
I usually walked maybe two, three miles,
and I just went out the next day.
He had come by to fix it,
and he walked in, and he saw this big painting.
So, one of his best friends was Annie Nakao.
She controlled the pink section
of the Sunday Examiner .
So he told her, so she calls, though, and comes over,
and I showed her.
I had maybe 20 canvases, I mean, rolled up,
half of them rolled up in the corner.
You know, just doing paintings and then rolling them up,
'cause you know, I would sell one,
but I wasn't selling a lot.
And so, she saw a few,
and she wanted to put it in the Examiner .
That was on a Thursday.
It went into the Sunday paper Sunday.
And then, that's when the calls came in,
and I had, uh... the rent was $900.
I had $1,100.
There was a show in two weeks.
I was hoping to sell at least one.
And, uh...I just--
I made so much money in one week,
it's ridiculous, you know.
Way over a couple hundred grand.
I mean, they were bidding over them,
just because of the article.
Just because of a leak. [laughing]
That was a big turnaround right there.
Huge.
I had a bank account.
[laughing]
- When you're an Anishinaabe person and you see his work,
it fills your heart up with something,
'cause you see something that you've heard spoken of,
you see beings that you've heard stories told of,
and he gives them... life.
He gives life to our stories in a way
that no other artist that I know has.
Thank you so much for Radio.
short break from thising a
this incredible artist to
patron of the arts right
PBS Wisconsin. Just have to
or go online to00-236-3636
your donation gets is what
anywhere else. You couldn't
else. Partly access to the
taking the locality, the're
Wisconsin based artist, no
get this kind of program.to
possible. So become ae it
now.on of the arts right
Eric Greiling. I'm director
This is such a uniqueconsin.
that gift, you will help us
programs that are about
really unique ways to sayme
gift of $10 a month, we'd
you with a DVD of thisto
spend some more timecan
Rabbett Before Horses of
we'd like to say thank you,
painting that is featured
this program. The lastin
colon creating a new world.
painting. For $20 a month,
with a Book of Rabbits you
a slice of of certain eras
hard to find such a trovery
you can look through and be
we'd like to say thank you,
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the book all together. So
work. Use that QR code onng
pbswisconsin.org or give us
1-800-236-3636.w at
Bird Bear and I'm a proudn
For some of you, this might
encountering rabbits, work,
indigenous artists. For me,
reminder of the 13,000 plus
called the Great Lakes Home,
here so long sustaining one
you'd like to consider toif
that shows us the worldview,
for thousands of years ande
ecosystems of this place,
PBS Wisconsin. You can dog
1-800-236-3636. Volunteers
>> Every gift is important.
together. We're. Eric is
amounts for you to give for
gifts. But the amount you
that you do give. Because
these together and thatof
of our funding. However, if
suggested amount, I highly
listening, $180 or $15 a
print. Again, nowhere else
kind of programing. Andis
funders of this programing
members like yourself. Show
Okay.support right now.
call, we have so many ways
gift at any one of thea
we'd like to say thank you,
monthly program guide. Get
are on the schedule forthat
are coming up and inside.
For every level we'rensin.
become eligible for, you
that gives you access toit
are available beyond the
to you. And at $10 a month,
to you with a program DVDu
month. This wonderful print
Creating a New World for
Before Horses Strickland
limited quantity. So makein
month. Two DVDs. The5 a
my brother Wolf. Anothernow,
the Ojibwe, the book, theng
to you when you make thate
programing coming your way,
1-800-236-3636.at
of the Great Lakes, I'mizen
indigenous societies share
their values, theirview,
universe and their place in
for us. He welcomes us into
the Anishinaabe world, thef
values of respect, love,
just all these wonderful
to relate to one anotherw
around us. The living world
rabbit's work, we see the
play in the work, and we
abundance of the Greatthe
abundance is so incredible
society that lives here in
just like public television
educating us, sustaining us,
sustaining Wisconsin by
Wisconsin by calling
>> I just want to mention.
poster. So it's it's it's a
if you're listening. Showr,
always been a leader in has
Actually, public media
Wisconsin Public Media. And
this long history. But weu
provide a service to you
that's bringing you stories
the world immediately about
the state of Wisconsin,in
of Wisconsin. So show youre
>> 1-800-236-3636 I've been
many times to spend a few
front of this painting. We
Chazen after after we madee
sustainer, and I have this
keep coming back to this I
finding new things about it.
this kind of programing,
this pledge break at $15 a
thank you to you with this
the program DVD for $20 ah,
artwork that was featureds
Museum in Duluth. For $25 a
you with two DVDs, theu to
together, because your gift
(800) 236-3636. call one
rabbit Story and learn aue
complex creative energies
for art, but also fort only
former math major myself,
Euler and Laplace ande
me of the incredible beauty
rabbit sees as well, as hek
incredible artwork with
framing, with just adible
layouts that only he can
dream world. And so, likeis
curious person and we hope
stoke our curiosities ando
Wisconsin, we keep getting
programing that allows ust
more about this rich world
call 1-800-236-3636. music and whistling]
more about this rich world
[birds chirping, squawking]
? ?
- The crows are really cautious, really cautious.
To the extent of losing
some of the stuff that I put out just for them,
the blue jays will take it.
They'll jump up, go in the tree.
Then, the blue jays come flying in.
- I spent a lot of time visiting with him,
and then, he looked at me, and he says,
"You know what my real passion is?"
I'm looking at the guy,
and the guy's doing, like,
an 8x14 painting that looks like a Botticelli.
It's Anishinaabe mythological beings
going through the sky on turtles
with, you know, all these butterflies,
and I was, like, trying to imagine,
"What could be your passion
more than spending 12 hours a day
painting with oils
in an ancient manner of ancient beings?"
And he said, um, "The Theory of the Prime.
Theoretical mathematics."
[laughing] I was like...
And I thought, you know, what I thought is, like,
"Of course, you know,
that would be what Da Vinci would say too."
Someone who has that complex of a mind
that can put together these multi-dimensional stories.
- Strickland: And you know what odd perfect numbers are, now?
Okay, well, there's even perfect numbers, okay?
A perfect number is a number
which is the sum of its proper divisors,
and the proper divisors are all the divisors
except the number itself.
So six is a perfect number.
One, two, and three, divide six,
and their sum is six.
That's what makes a perfect number.
The next one is 28, the next one is 496,
and they keep getting bigger.
I don't think they know if there's infinitely many,
but Euclid did that, actually, 2,000 years ago.
And I think, uh, René Descartes,
he invented analytic geometry.
He said, "I see no reason why there shouldn't be an odd perfect."
So everybody started trying to resolve that,
either, you know, for it or against it.
It doesn't matter, a resolve's a resolve.
Is a resolve, huh? [chuckles]
Like a rose is a rose.
- And so, each time I go see him, I ask about his math,
and as people know, he has a chalkboard up
where he's working on his latest formula
and his formulation which, you know, I honor
and am entirely baffled by,
and I'm hoping that someday I can bring someone
intelligent enough to his presence
to have a conversation with him about theoretical math
because I am not that person,
but I-- I recognize what he's doing.
- And I could see patterns and things, way back,
maybe four, five years old.
So I've always had it.
Went to college a little.
College is really slow.
And I kind of wanted to just
work on certain problems anyway.
So I started looking for something to create a tool
for Additive Number Theory, 'cause they have none.
To work with primes like, uh,
things like Goldbach's Hypothesis.
A modern way to say that would be...
every even number greater than four
can be expressed as sum of two odd primes.
Anything.
Anything that has partitions.
And so, I started studying partitions.
And I looked at it--
So if you put them in variables, C and D,
you find out that C squared minus D squared
equals C plus D,
where C equals D plus 1.
You just insert this into this, and it proves that.
- He said he wanted to go someplace, you know.
First he wanted to go to Santa Fe,
and so I think that my sister,
who did not have a driver's license, but is a good driver,
was dispatched because Rabbetts don't drive
and Rabbetts don't fly, as I recall.
And so I dispatched my 6'2" sister to be his partner,
driving him across the country
in some vehicle that he did own.
- Janine Antoine was a friend of LaDuke's,
and one day she says, uh,
"Winona LaDuke's looking for you."
And I said, "Who's that?"
And she said, "Well, it's an old friend from college."
And I said, "Well, does she have any big walls?"
[laughs]
You know, to paint, you know.
She says, "Yeah, she's probably got some big walls up there."
I think it wasn't that long after that I went up there.
Pretty hard to just jump up and go.
Had to get Lorna Haynes to come out and drive me.
I didn't know where I was going.
So I paid her way, and uh...
she came out on a plane.
Went to Santa Fe.
- We took him to Santa Fe
and the great Indian Art Market there
and enjoyed that, but you know,
his real calling was to come home.
So first, he came back to my house,
and I had renovated a little cabin next door
for the artist in residence.
I had taken things off and extended the wall
so that he could actually have a wall upon which to paint.
- That's where I did "Out of the Sun."
I finished it there; I started it in Santa Fe.
And then I glazed it, and I rolled it up,
and I brought it up there and finished it.
Not a big wall. [laughs]
It was right-- just like that.
I mean, I had to lay on the floor,
you know, on the bottom.
Big shaggy rug.
- People from our village would go see him.
You had to be careful, 'cause you'd interrupt him,
and he's not a patient fellow.
He's not-- he's interested in what he's doing,
and his world is so immense,
and his dreams and his stories are so widespread
that, you know, he has little time
for others, but he would tolerate.
I just-- I remember it was so funny
'cause he was just, like, "Me and the cats, moving in."
And the thing is, is that in my little life,
you know, there's-- I felt like in this moment,
I could be like a benefactor to a great artist.
A patron. A patroness of the arts.
And so I had this moment where I felt like
I could do that, and I thought about
the Medici family
and I thought about how they financed Da Vinci
after looting the Americas and such.
And I thought, "How great is it that
I have this moment to be a patron to a great artist?"
In my little modest way of,
I will feed you, I will get you traveling here,
I will pay some money so that you are sustained,
and I will give you a place to do your art.
- And then, uh, I was down in Minneapolis.
I did a show down there,
and I hooked up with some people,
and I stayed down there for a while.
I was gonna go to White Earth again,
but instead of turning that way, I just--
I went the other way, up to Bayfield.
Full circle.
I asked my mother if she wanted to go,
but then she passed away.
She didn't want to go.
"What do you wanna go back there for?
There's nothing there." [laughs]
When I first got here, I didn't know where I was,
and I was looking for Rita, my cousin.
J goes around, and she says, "Well, just come up J,
and the first right," so I was on the other side
going to the first right and I couldn't find her.
I said, "There's nobody here."
She says, "I'm standing right here."
Then she figured out, "Oh, you're on the other side.
You gotta come through town and then take the right."
I basically-- when I got here, I slept in the car
'cause she had a big dog.
He was real mean.
Me and Booz slept in the car.
Rita's an artist.
She does a lot of craft,
a lot of birch bark.
Paints her birch bark.
All the beading, you know, all that stuff.
Yeah, she paints, and then her grandfather,
Burt VanderVenter, painted.
It's in the genes, but I think it's more growing up in it.
- 'Cause I just love colored leaves.
- You know, I was happy to see him when he moved back
to his territory here and happy to see his welcoming,
and I'm glad he's much closer, and I'm glad he's happy here.
I'm just so grateful for what he brings
in his art to our communities.
[chuckling warmly]
- Then I met up with Jean.
"Show me around."
I had her number from LaDuke's
on the Rolodex for Red Cliff,
and I just happened to be looking through that thing,
and I saw that name, and said, "Okay,
I'll get ahold of her."
We hit it off right off the bat.
- When I first met him,
his partner, Jeanie Buffalo, was still alive.
Jeanie became ill later and passed away,
but at that time, he and Jeanie
were living in a house outside of Bayfield.
I went up to see him and discovered that
what he really, really wanted to be was
the greatest Native American mathematician of all time.
It's like, "What?!" [laughing]
"I've done the math. The math works," he says.
[laughs] Okay, whatever that means.
You gotta-- you really need to tell somebody
who gets that the math works, 'cause I don't, you know.
[laughs]
- This started in my late 20s.
I had this idea here for, like, ten years
before I had the second part.
Even though it's really simple now,
took a long time for me to see that-- that pattern.
And I would wake up, maybe 2:00 in the morning,
and go write something down and-- dead end.
It's always working-- must be working on it,
'cause it's amazing how
all of a sudden, something clicks,
like this clicked just a couple days ago.
I woke up, and I-- like, a voice told me,
"Check what Euler did."
It's a Swedish name, E-U-L-E-R,
but they pronounce it "Oyler."
Just all I needed was a priority argument.
So I knocked out half the odd integers.
They can't be a perfect number.
Just like that.
That's so cool. [laughs]
- I said, "How do you do these paintings?
What's the process?"
And he said, "Well, I do these drawings,
"and then, I transfer the drawings
to the big canvases."
And I said, "Well, where are the drawings?"
"Uh, they're around here somewhere."
"Well, can you show me some drawings?"
So he pulls out this big old beaten-up portfolio
and he pulls a pile of drawings out of the portfolio,
and they're all dog-eared and coffee-mug-stained,
and they're just a mess, you know.
And they were incredible.
The drawings were amazing.
Little notations in the margins
where you could see his thought process working out
and how he was gonna do these and transfer them
to the big canvases, and then he did grid marks
on the drawings and then transfer the grid.
I mean, it was just fascinating,
and I said, "Dude, these drawings are incredible, man.
We should preserve these drawings.
At the very least, let's mat and frame some of these."
Visitors come in, and they look at Rabbett's paintings,
and they just go, "Wow, these are amazing,"
but for me, it's how you got to the amazing part
that's most fascinating.
And he'd never thought about it.
He just stuffed 'em in the portfolio.
It was amazing.
That was one of the things that most endeared him to me
was just his sort of disregard for some of the things
that other artists hold as precious.
He just said, "Eh, it's just an old drawing, you know."
And I thought, "Ah, that's great," you know,
he doesn't-- he doesn't attach great importance to this,
and that's really the sign
of a guy who's got his vision and knows where he's going.
- I did an arc.
Whoever I start with.
But I just put her shape here.
Then I got him about the same size.
Then they just follow.
You know, from the sketch.
And I had 'em in these blocks.
[tapping]
The same spaces-- they're in the same space.
Then I just start working on each one.
They all went off her.
She's the first size.
This will be real dark here.
Looks too wide.
I'll do a lot of that,
keep changing stuff... as I look at it.
mostly in terms of size.
This isn't a hard lead.
But they don't go on as well if you use the hard ones.
I'll try and smear it a bit
so it doesn't just all...
A lot of this will get taken away with the glaze.
Kind of like a wash over it.
Something like this takes three days
to cut around all that hair and stuff.
You know, and then move your way up-- or two days.
As long as you can sit.
More like three hours now.
I used to sit eight.
But I'm sitting more like three.
Of course, younger, you can sit a long time.
Every day for eight hours? That would kill me.
Especially down on the bottom, all bent.
Your neck gets out of whack.
Die right there...
with cats on me. [laughing]
- One of the things that's most interesting
about Rabbett is that he gets dreams,
and then the dreams tell him
he's got to commit these to canvas.
He has to paint the dream
in order to move on to the next dream.
So he had a dream about this subject,
and it was gonna be real complicated.
There was a lot going on in this painting,
and it was going to be a big painting
about the right to consciousness.
Native peoples' right to consciousness.
In other words, their right to their own beings.
And so he had this vision,
and he thought, "I live in this house
"with rooms that are 12x12
with 9-foot ceilings, if I'm lucky.
Where am I gonna do this big painting?"
And he stepped into his living room,
and here's the big cathedral ceiling,
and he said, "I'll do it in here."
So when I went-- the next time I went to see him,
he had built a wall down the middle of the living room,
all the way to the top of that cathedral ceiling.
So the wall was 20 feet long and 15 feet high,
and he had stapled a giant canvas to it.
The canvas was probably-- I think it was around
17x9 feet.
He'd stapled this giant canvas up there,
and he was working on this painting,
and I thought, "Oh, my God. What is this?"
"Well, this is my dream. It's my vision.
Here it is, you know."
And I thought, "This is unbelievable."
The next thing was, "Where are you gonna show that?"
Well, that didn't really matter,
although there was always the question of,
"Man, I think I could sell this for a lot."
[laughs]
There was always that,
but it was like, "Where are you gonna show it?"
I said, "I think you should bring it over
to the museum and show it."
He said, "It's not finished."
I said, "That doesn't matter.
"You can come over to the museum and finish it.
"Let's get a stretcher frame built for this thing.
We'll take it over to the museum on the island."
I got one wall in the entire museum
that's big enough for that painting.
We commissioned a master cabinet builder
to build the ultimate stretcher frame for that thing.
The stretcher frame alone cost over $1,000, [laughs]
and then we haul it in pieces over to the island,
and of course, he comes over with the canvas rolled up
and lay it out on the empty floor of the museum and go--
it took forever to get that thing stapled up
and re-stretched, and then we hung it on the wall,
and it weighed a ton because of the stretcher frame,
and we had to put cleats on the wall.
It was an incredible process.
And then there was this giant painting.
The deal was Rabbett could come in whenever he wanted
and work on the painting.
That actually worked,
except when there were visitors in the museum,
because they would distract him.
[laughs] They would be asking questions.
And the next thing you know is he's talking to them
instead of painting, and he looked at me one day
and said, "I don't think I'm ever gonna finish this thing."
But it was marvelous in the museum.
It just looked incredible on that big wall,
and people loved it.
They just came in by the droves to see it.
They were pretty fascinated by it.
- I got sick of taking the ferry,
and I stopped working on it.
[laughs] I came out and took it down.
"Eh, this is boring."
- When the painting finally came down,
we took it off the stretcher again,
because it was-- you couldn't--
we couldn't even get it out of the building
unless we took it off the stretcher,
and then we took the stretcher apart,
and we wrapped up all the big pieces to it,
and the next time I saw him, he was no longer
living in the house with the cathedral ceiling,
and he had moved into a trailer.
And I went up to visit him in the middle of the winter,
and there, laying in the snow,
was the $1,000 stretcher frame.
[laughs]
And I said, "You need to put that in the garage
"or something, you know,
"because you're gonna need to re-stretch
that painting someday."
And there's the frame.
But what's so great about the guy
is he wasn't thinking about stuff like that.
You know, that sort of thing wasn't important.
What was important was making the art,
getting to the next dream and vision,
and the execution of that next piece.
- I think it's about doing it. Yeah.
I do that with mathematics.
[laughs]
I hit on something last week, real nice.
I turned the lights off at 8:00, you know,
just pitch black-- you see how dark it gets out here.
Pitch black.
Beautiful idea came into my head.
I-- I said, "Oh, God.
"If I don't write it down, I'm gonna forget it.
"I gotta get up and turn the lights on
and write it down."
Took me, like, 20 minutes just to do that,
'cause I didn't want to turn the lights on.
[laughs]
But I had to.
I said, "This is pretty good," so...
I don't know what that is.
Just a flash.
artist. Hi. I am Michele
Radio and we are in thelic
starting a member.ust
means is we have currentat
inspire you to become a to
donation matched. This is a
twice as far. Where do yous
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beautiful prints. The thing
about the print itself, is
learning the backgroundtory,
comes from, what these, he
different drawings mean,
It really brings context to
your support now and take
by getting your donationnge
>> Hi, I'm Eric Greiling,36.
PBS Wisconsin and just like
member challenge break. So
far when you become a news
you get to support amazingt,
You're not going to find a
else. And we have somehere
when we do so. Your gift of
as far when you call nowice
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with your visit using thes
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>> Rabbett Before Horses
beautiful, and knowing a
and the worldview behindist
meaning to us. It'ses its
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at 1-800-236-3636. Thankng
>> When you support PBS
only are you getting your
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incredible talents like
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support. Get that donation
>> We can do it. We can
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it's a great time to call.
far. Help us reach that as
bring you programs liketo
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you for $10 a month as a to
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secure monthly gift that
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culture, the print, and a
rabbit's artwork. It starts
We need your help to keepou.
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>> I remain grateful to PBS
wonderful programs like
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PBS Wisconsin. And pleaseou,
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[MUSIC]sizer music]36.
about you? PBS Wisconsin.
? ?
[laughing]
- You hear this music
that he cobbles together at home,
and you think, you know, "Jeez, man,
this is pretty good stuff."
I remember that when we're talking about
San Francisco when he was a teenager
and he's playing in bands and he's a singer
and he's been to the Fillmore and he's been to the Avalon
and he saw, you know, The Grateful Dead
and he did this and, "Oh, by the way,
I was gonna be the singer for the Grass Roots,"
and all of this stuff, right, you know,
it's mostly just 'wow'--
the wow factor you get.
[Rabbett laughs]
- Rabbett: This a lady did when I was not 17 yet.
She was an artist.
But that's me. I'm sleeping on a couch.
And then me playing a guitar.
My mother played guitar and piano.
Got it off her.
I think I had an aunt who played an organ.
[laughs]
And then-- but I learned a lot from other people,
you know, that I hung around with later.
Yeah, more from them.
Jamie and the Intruders.
[laughing]
Oh, my God.
Yeah, that was right before the Beatles came out,
Jamie and the Intruders.
A lot of, like, Army kids--
parents were in the Army,
playing over at Presidio Teen Club.
I think it was, like, five months in that one group
and then, boom, the next band.
The group. Always the lead singer.
And I quit the other one,
and back then you didn't care, just cutthroat.
[laughs] Just went to another.
They're all mad at me, and I went to the other group
'cause they were doing, like, originals.
You do a lot when you're young, you know, so...
seems like a long time, but it's not.
Just filling up every day.
All the way through about 18,
then I didn't want to play no more.
They were still going, and I didn't want to.
Started-- I started getting into painting.
? ?
? Excy gonna ride ?
? Ride them ponies with me ?
? Excy gonna ride 'em ?
This song was for Jean Buffalo.
After she passed.
They called her Excy.
Excilda.
? ?
? Excy gonna ride ?
? Ride them ponies with me ?
? Excy gonna ride 'em ?
She had a horse named "Memengwaa."
Means "butterfly."
? ?
? Ride them ponies with me ?
In the back, that's her, um, Sonia Buffalo singing with me.
? Oh, yeah ?
- I did not know Jeanie before.
I just knew who the Buffalo clan was
up at Red Cliff,
and then I met Jeanie through Rabbett.
What was amazing about their relationship
was that she had a head for the details of life
and for business kinds of things.
She really was sort of his representative.
She was making sure that people knew about his work,
that things would get sold, that, you know,
reproductions, prints, and cards and things
would get made and that they would be available for sale.
And then when Jeanie got ill and then passed away,
there was sort of this vacuum in a number of ways.
I mean, certainly emotionally.
- She got me a place to stay at her friend's house
down in the basement, and then, uh,
me and Booz were down there,
and I was painting out in her garage.
It wasn't that long after that
I went over to where she lived,
and Sonia was still there.
That's the daughter.
Had her hand in everything, though.
Lot of stuff for the community, you know.
Always busy.
Good writer, good speaker.
Great laugh too.
You could hear her across the store.
She-- always talking to people.
But that laugh just never ended, you know. [chuckles]
I think I got it on, uh,
one of those little cassette things.
Not the same, though. [chuckles]
"Back Roads."
Did you ever hear "Back Roads"?
When I first came here with Jean, I--
she would show me-- I felt lost.
You know, just ride around on the back roads,
'cause there's a lot of back roads here.
? Let's just ?
And they're real quiet when you get on them.
? Ride around ?
? On the back roads ?
? On the rez ?
Somewhere within a year,
she found out that she had breast cancer again.
I think she had it five years earlier
and it just-- it returned.
? Riding around ?
So our relationship had that third party, cancer.
The last year was probably the worst.
? On the rez ?
They travel; you know, you think you lost it,
but it went somewhere else.
These little cells went to her brain
and then went to her vertebrae, and that was it.
It was eating her vertebrae pretty bad,
so it must have been really painful.
It was hard to watch
someone so independent get broken down.
Like, trying to get up and put her clothes on,
you know, she couldn't do that.
Hard to watch.
- I watched him for a while, kind of...
just sort of flounder a little bit.
I mean, I'm sure a lot of that was just the process
of working through grief,
but some of it was very practical, like,
"Who's gonna take care of my stuff,
my business part?"
So a lot of that didn't help,
but I think today he's come out of that pretty well,
to the point where he's--
he shared some music with me this last year,
and one of them is a song that's about her specifically,
so he's worked through it, and he's back to making
a lot of good paintings and having good humor.
Being funny again, or still, you know.
Yeah.
[bird cawing, bird chirping
- ? On the back roads ?
I didn't have nothing.
I didn't have nowhere to go,
and I was trying to get a trailer,
so I sold a painting, and I got this,
and then I got this cleared.
I remember the bears going through--
there are strawberries up here,
before I got up here.
So they were coming through
and hanging out up here and playing out in front.
Didn't bother me.
A couple big ones walked around, you know,
looked in there.
Cats were like, "What?"
[laughs]
There was owls back here in the trees
and falcons, you know.
It's nice out here. It's nice and quiet.
Good for painting.
[birds cawing]
- I come from a family that my mother would do a sketch,
and the painting would grow and change
as if it had its own life.
And so I am used to what begins as a piece of art,
it is not what it looks like at the end.
Rabbett is a much different style of painter.
And he will take the image that he saw in his dream,
and he will make from that
the story in the same image.
- Then it'll kind of go down, and then there'll be the...
Horizon and the shoreline
with the mountains coming up through here.
And I'll put a lot of detail in those mountains.
That'll be nice.
Might have to block all this out to do that.
I didn't want to start any big one.
I was gonna do the little one, real slow, over the summer.
It's just stressful.
It's painful.
You know, neck's all whacked out.
So what do I do?
I start another one.
Just in me, I guess.
Gotta do it.
- He's a jazz painter, man, in a way.
There's just stuff that comes out that
you couldn't do it again if you tried.
It's just in the act of making it
or the act of playing it, it just spills out.
Then you can go back and review it later.
Listen to it or look at it.
Or think about it, in the case of the math,
but you go back and look at it later and say,
"I don't know where that came from, but that was pretty cool,
" but I still think I should move the guy's head
an inch that way," right? [laughs]
- If you can sit there and do it,
it'll look nice when it's done.
I gotta change his head. [chuckles]
I think that's it-- it's making his arm look short.
It's not really short.
I don't know about this.
I don't wanna get into his face,
'cause I'll sit here forever until I'm done.
This isn't sharp anymore.
So then... now he's got two eyes.
Lower it down.
? ?
Now I gotta change everything.
Little fatter.
That'll be a mess.
Okay, I'm gonna get away from this
'cause I'll be doing this tonight, then.
Darn it.
There, I started it. [laughs]
Now-- see, now everything will be that much lower.
That'll be pretty good.
At least I can sit on that one,
and I can turn it upside down and work on the leaves.
It doesn't matter which way the leaves go.
Same with the grass.
Of course, it had to be more complicated.
[laughs]
- Here is this master who is painting
with his commitment to a thousand years of story.
It's an entirely Anishinaabe experience that he's painting,
because when you see that art and you
are learning your cultural history or you know it,
you understand what that is.
And different art is for different times,
but his is a timeless art that speaks to this time.
- "Nanabozho and the Wolf."
It's from the re-creation story.
Actually, I got most of the illustrations
for the re-creation story.
Everybody thinks, you know, that him on the turtle...
they think that's the beginning.
That's the end of the story.
You know, where he brings-- gets the muskrat
and brings up the dirt.
Yeah, that's the end.
There's a whole story before that.
I saw it in a--
Someone had written it out way back.
It's dusk...
and the sunset.
They're gonna start walking down to another place
to sleep,
and then he's gonna go hunting,
but still they're going towards where
the Mishipeshu is, the chief lynx,
or whatever they wanna call it.
They call it Water Monster, too,
so Great Lynx would be Mishipeshu.
The sleeping on the sandbar is a giveaway.
That's in all the stories I've seen about it,
so the background will have that water,
and that's a sign of what's to come for the wolf.
In the story, they're sleeping,
but then the wolf gets up and goes off by himself.
Nanabozho told him if he's hunting,
if he's chasing a moose or anything,
if he ever comes to a stream
or any kind of water-- body of water,
always shake a stick in there first.
Don't jump it.
And so he didn't. [laughs]
When he jumped it, the Mishipeshu was in there.
Grabbed him and ate him.
And Nanabozho has that dream that something happened,
and he wakes up and goes and looks.
So Nanabozho talks with the Kingfisher
and the Kingfisher knows everything that went on,
and he gives him information about what happened
if Nanabozho will give him color.
That's how that goes, so...
And then he finds out what happened.
Then the whole thing is tracking down
the Ogima Mishipeshu,
the chief guy,
and they describe those Mishipeshus
as lying on sandbars, you know,
to get heat, like an alligator
or some kind of amphibian,
so that's how I made him.
Kind of got him more like a water monster.
It's actually a revenge story, the re-creation story.
You know, a lot of lessons in there, too.
But I'm not a storyteller, so...
- That mythology is really critical to--
to any indigenous people telling their stories.
I mean, they've gotta have an origin story,
creation mythology.
You know, mythology is only myth to a point.
There's a lot of belief systems and reality
goes along with the whole creation of mythology.
What I love about Rabbett's paintings
is he's always got Nanabozho in there.
In his heart and soul, in his mind,
you gotta open up the portals
for those stories to flow through.
And you make a deal with Nanabozho.
"I'll put you in all the paintings
as long as you continue to feed me those stories,"
Right? The portals are open.
You know, great songwriters,
they tell you that they're just a conduit.
The songs come through them, not to them,
and I think you see a lot of that in him.
That art comes through him
as much as it comes to him.
- Well, I was doing it in San Francisco,
same thing, yeah.
I had 'em down there in Santa Fe,
and I wasn't scanning them.
They're gone.
I wasn't keeping track of who got 'em.
So there's a lot of paintings out there that, yeah.
With the same subjects, the re-creation story,
at least with Nanabozho and the Wolf,
'cause it involves Nanabozho and uh, shut-eye dance.
They're long, long stories, so...
lot of material.
- My understanding of the Ojibwe creation stories
and the whole mythology is that Nanabozho's got
kind of that trickster thing going for him,
but he's also-- bears witness.
He's such an important key component to all of this.
There has to be a witness,
somebody to say, "This happened,"
to be there, and so he bears witness
for all of the things that happen.
And at the same time, he's mischievous.
And that, in a sense, is Rabbett.
He's a trickster, he's mischievous,
and he's bearing witness today.
At the ripe old age of 70 now,
he bears witness to his universe
and the values that he's seeing in his culture,
and he does that with his paintings
and indirectly with his music
and his math and all of that other stuff.
But really it's about the art.
- He's the Michelangelo of the Ojibwe
because of his style and his gift.
He's an Italian classic painter and thinker,
and let us be honest.
That's a rare, rare gift that that man has,
and in that style
of whether it's Michelangelo or Da Vinci,
where you can have this
incredible artistic gift
and a mathematical mind,
you know, and...
and just live in your world.
You know, that's part of what I love about Rabbett
is he is, you know-- he's really about his world.
And, uh, if you get, you know, a moment to be in his world,
it's a pretty good gift.
I don't ever stay long,
'cause I don't wanna outlive the welcome.
You know, I'm usually like, "Hi, how are you?"
But you know, I would not wanna ever outlive the welcome.
- ? They like it, they like it a lot ?
? They like that blood in you and me, yeah ?
? Sure enough, they want it, hey, hey ?
? Every drop ?
[scats, hums]
That would be the end of that one.
Just sing-- go out singing, uh,
"Everybody wants to be an Indian."
? Everybody wanna be ?
I don't know.
? ?
? An Indi-- ? [music stops]
You know.
Before Horses. Artist,tt
is a true Renaissance manHe
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hear about the world around ? Everybody wanna be ?
? An Indian ?
? ?
? They like that history ?
? Oh, sure enough, they like it ?
? They like it a lot ?
? They like that blood in you and me ?
? Sure enough, they want it ?
? Hey, hey ?
? Every drop ?
? I stand high-high-higher ?
? ?
? I stand high-high-higher ?
? ?
? I stand high-high-higher ?
? ?
? I stand high-high-higher ?
? ?
? I stand high-high-higher ?
? ?
- Announcer: Rabbett Before Horses
was funded, in part, by
John and Carolyn Peterson Charitable Foundation,
Ron and Patricia Anderson,
John and Barbara McFarland,
Estate of Esther M. Schenk,
Ruth St. John and John Dunham West Foundation
with additional support from
Bitzer Family Legacy Fund,
John J. Frautschi Family Foundation,
Pat and Judy Sebranek,
Wisconsin Arts Board
with funds from the State of Wisconsin
and National Endowment for the Arts,
Focus Fund for Wisconsin Programming,
and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.