Courier New;Cambria Math;  Mike.  - Thank you.   Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to be here.  A quick little introduction.  I'm Michael Marlow, I'm a Wildlife Biologist with USDA Wildlife Services program, and I'm stationed out of Fort Collins, Colorado.  I've met several people here in the audience and they've asked me where I'm from, and I tell them Colorado and they're a bit surprised that I came all the way out here for this except for this gentleman here in the front row, who knew that I was coming he wore his, 'Got Grass?' hat, I noticed.  Second observation I'd like to quickly make is, coming from Oklahoma I've spent 20 years in the Wildlife Services program, and I'm a little bit out of my element up here in the north, but it's kind of refreshing.  It's probably the first workshop that I've done where I'm the only one in the room that doesn't have an accent.  They've asked me to come out here and talk about guard animals but I want to start out that presently I'm the Resource Management Specialist with USDA Wildlife Services. 

 With that, I basically assist Wildlife Services in broadening our knowledge our opportunities to work with stakeholders and our research component to broaden our knowledge in the use of integrated wildlife damage management.  David spoke a lot about our lack thereof of integrated wildlife damage management here in the state of Wisconsin, and I hope to place some higher emphasis on that throughout my presentation.   Primarily I focus on livestock protection and a lot of that is with predators and predator management.  A big component of that is livestock protection dogs.  Now actually what I have said, I work a lot with integrated wildlife damage management.  They've asked me to talk about guard animals, and so I'll focus a lot on that now.  Now realize that livestock protection dogs are very prevalent within the industry within the sheep society.  It's not unprecedented to see livestock protection dogs in cattle operations and other operations, but it is a little bit different.  But we see great success especially in the northwest and the western United States with the livestock protection dogs in areas of sheep production.  I want to start today by talking about livestock protection dogs, a little bit of history on livestock protection dogs. 

 In the late 1970s, a lot of it was emphasized through the sheep industry and our actual research component to where we saw resurgence to livestock protection dogs for primarily sheep protection.  That was primarily the result of three things: The first thing being, Federal restrictions placed on the use of predicides back during the Nixon administration.  There was a big study and a big push and we lost our use of some of our primary predacides, primarily that of sodium cyanide using an M44 device, and also with sodium fluoroacetate which you might know from Livestock Protection Collar.  With this loss it put a greater emphasis on coming up with other solutions to predator management.  The second thing was the inability of existing techniques to offer adequate relief.  We still saw a lot of increasing predation in a lot of areas, predominately coyote depredation in livestock.  The third thing was desire by some, and you see it even more and more today and that's a push to use more and more non-lethal technologies.  Now, it's not a new thing, historically worldwide livestock protection dogs have been used ever since man brought them into domestication and they've been used throughout the world.  But it wasn't until this time in the late 70s and the early 80s that they actually became more and more popular in the United States.  They're most commonly used to protect sheep, like I said, but they're also helpful in protecting other species of livestock. 

 We're seeing more and more in western Wyoming, around the Green River Valley, the implementation of dogs in grisly bear and wolf country, not only sheep, but also cattle operations.  So, like I said, it's not unprecedented however it's not one that you'd see as widespread use that you would see in sheep production.  They're working dogs that stay with or near livestock most of the time, and they aggressively repel those predators who actually try to confront the livestock.  This is where I guess it's a little bit different in the sense of cattle is in that sense that sheep are flocking animals, whereas cattle typically graze over a wider landscape, the herds are scattered and so therefore you know the way the ability...  The dog is somewhat handicapped.  Especially in the western United States where he may be grazing on operations that may include you know, 30,000 or more acres.  I understand through some of the presentations today, not necessarily typical but an average size ranch here may consist of a couple of sections of land upwards of 12 hundred acres.  So I can see there's some relevance to how a dog operates that they could actually have a positive influence here in this type of a production zone.  They're an important component of managing livestock not only on the large landscapes like I said in the west, but also smaller, smaller landscapes.  Like I said we use them in the west on huge, huge vast amounts of land including the Bureau of Land Management and US Forest Service grazing allotments. 

 When you think about livestock protection dogs and how they compare to other traditional non-lethal types of preventative methods, I'm going to show you on these next two graphs exactly how they kind of gauge up.  The fourth area there, if you have any difficulty seeing that is actually the cost to implement livestock protection dogs.  This came from the study through the American Sheep Industry from 2009 data that was published 2010.  As you can see compared to some of the more traditional methods of livestock protection such as shed lambing, where you're actually bringing your ewes in 'til they're born, to actually lamb, or actual fencing, could be predator-proof fencing or electrical fencing.  Comparatively the cost to implement livestock protection dogs is relatively low.  I've got a couple other methods there cull/shooting which obviously not an option here in a strictly non-lethal capacity state, and also other methods which would include arrow hunting some other non-traditional type methods.  So when you see the relative cost for implementing livestock protection dogs is low, and when you compare that to what the producers actually see as a relative return, how happy are they with the actual implementation of these methods? You see that the livestock protection dog almost equals that of shed lambing.  You know when you have shed lambing, you've totally excluded access for the predator to get to the offspring, therefore you're going to eliminate, if not completely ...  You're going to reduce if not completely eliminate depredation on those lambs.  But the return, the bang for your buck I guess you could say, is very high they are very well perceived, well received within the sheep industry. 

 With that, I want to take a look at some pros and then I want to talk about some cons.  I want to talk about how we can maybe adapt this for how it would apply for a state such as yours here in Wisconsin, maybe Minnesota, and some of the Great Lakes regions.  Livestock protection dogs as I've said can guard a variety of livestock.  They're known to protect sheep, cattle, people use them on poultry operations, wildlife operations, so they do have an opportunity to have some diverse use.  They're typically able to analyze threats.  This is very important.  I'm going to talk about a little bit later, but dogs for the most part are very intelligent and so they are going to be able to perceive between an active threat and maybe just a situation that's just not typically normal, where they're not going to be vicious or potentially cause harm in a situation where other types of animals can potentially react in a more negative way.  They are intelligent.  They are able to analyze when there's actual threat of predation versus just some unique situation.  One thing that makes it beneficial is livestock protection dogs are able to bond to the livestock they're protecting. 

 You typically do this in the sheep industry by actually introducing those dogs to young lambs and a ewe early on.  A lot of people think that these dogs think they're sheep.  They don't think they're sheep.  It's just the fact that they're comfortable around the sheep, and they enjoy being around them and so they're going to protect these sheep.  That may be a difficult facet in trying to actually bond these to cattle.  One thing I encourage is for people to be innovative, and regardless if it's sheep industry, or cattle industry, or poultry industry, dogs are a great investment.  It's going to take a lot of time and energy spent to make a proper livestock protection guardian.  It's not something...  It is innate within a dogs to protect in a way but the fact of the matter is there's a lot of effort, and time, and responsibility that producer has to devote to this success.  Bonding the cattle may be a little bit more challenging, but it's something that, like I say we are looking at, other producer's are trying it. 

 So that's part of the important components of how livestock protection dogs accomplish what our goals are.   They may alert producers to potential threats.  Dogs are vocal, they bark.  In the west when you have dogs that may be 100's of miles, not 100's of miles but 10's of miles away from human presence, every night or every day, this may not be as big a deal but here on smaller landscapes if you're near your pastures and dogs are carrying on and barking it could alert you to the fact that something's going on, and maybe allow you to have a response to the situation.  That's an important component, a positive component of livestock protection dogs.  They may allow for greater pasture use and grazing.  David commented about some of these pastures you had to pull off cattle or livestock completely.  Dogs may, from their territorial nature, allow for these pastures that may have historically vulnerable to predation.  So that's one thing-- I'll throw out this caution.  I think it was Mr. 

 Link here mentioned pack size as many as 20 or 25 animals, and that's what we're seeing in the Rocky Mountain region now and we're actually doing a study and the National Wildlife Research Center is conducting a study because what we're seeing is we're actually seeing a mortality in livestock protection dogs in these areas they have these large packs of wolves.  When you're talking about a wolf in the Great Lakes region, I'm not for sure what the average weights are but, some of our wolves in the northern territories, Rocky Mountain territories easily exceed over 100, 120 pounds.  When you have 20 or 25 animals maybe combating or trying to come in on livestock and they're only being defended by six or seven dogs you know, do the math.  One thing that ethically we don't necessarily encourage the use of dogs where we're seeing the impacts of mortality to the dogs, but we're actually doing research to try and identify breeds of dogs that historically were used in Europe presently against wolves and bears in those countries.  We're looking at more athletic, a larger more vicious dog, canine vicious.  But these dogs had to meet certain criteria where and one of those criteria was to be human tolerant.  That study is actively going on now and I'll talk a little bit more about that toward the end of my presentation.  LPDs provide long-term protection as predators do not become accustomed or habituated.  David talked about how these wolves had become habituated to all these non-lethal technologies.  We don't see that with dogs, they don't habituate. 

 There's a constant vigilance these dogs have the capability they have to not allow these predators to habituate to their presence.  That's a positive attribute.  However, you know, every rose has it's thorn and there are definitely disadvantages with livestock protection dogs, I'll touch a little upon that now.  They may kill your livestock, so that's not...  If they're out there to protect your livestock and they're killing your livestock that's not obviously an advantage.  But what you typically see that in the young dogs that are maybe too playful with their calf or a lamb and they actually kill.  Some of this actually evolves from a lack of a producer responsibility.  They put their cattle out on pasture, they ask the dog just to provide for himself, and a hungry dog is going to do what it takes to survive and so, some of this actually is self-imposed by the producer themselves.  Something to be aware of.  They may harass and kill non-target wildlife. 

 If you were a cattleman but you also love deer hunting and you know these dogs potentially chase your deer away it may not be something that's a positive attribute towards your operation.  We don't see that so much with the people we talk to in the east, where we see it is with our adversarial groups who are concerned with these dogs all turn grisly bear migration patterns or actually disrupting habitat corridors where other wildlife are actually, naturally moving.  We get a lot of I guess negative response from the use the livestock protection dogs on public lands as a result of this capability.  So, something to be aware of.  Third is: they may wander unless adequately fenced.  And that can be a big problem, especially in smaller landscapes.  If you have a neighbor that raises Labrador Retrievers, and his bitch is going into heat, and your livestock protection dog is not protecting your cattle, and he's over there trying to service those dogs on that Labrador ranch, he's going to have problems.  So, that's something to be aware of.  You know, there are certain technologies being developed.  Some are better than others that are in development now: virtual fencing, some of the earliest ones were actually buried electrical cables where a collar would actually keep that dog from crossing. 

 Now you're getting more-- Technology allows for satellite usage and telemetry-type applications.  Certainly something to be aware of.  These dogs, especially in boredom, will wander, but in areas where urban landscapes or these rural landscapes where neighbors may have dogs and others may have dogs, wandering would be definitely a negative aspect.   [cough] They may be aggressive to strangers.  We've done a lot to try to educate the public.  I'll talk about that in a little bit more detail later.  But if you have neighbors that have hunting dogs or young children that frequently pass by your place, it's certainly something to be aware of.  They may be aggressive to strangers.  We do have mechanisms that we try to help people identify certain types of dogs and certain types of breeds for certain types of situations, and aggression toward humans is one of these attributes that some dogs may possess and others don't.  So, certainly something to consider. 

 LPDs may not tolerate herding or other foreign dogs.  So if you're using spaniels or heelers or kelpies or whatever it may be to periodically herd your cattle, you'd have to take that into consideration.  If you have livestock protection dogs out on the pasture and they see a dog chasing these calves or sheep or whatever it may be, it could be a train wreck.  And so you make yourself aware of that.  It's not always compatible.  So it's certainly something to consider.   They need time and guidance to mature properly.  So, they take time.  And they take guidance.  That guidance is an investment from you as the producer. 

 And so, you know, a dog sometimes we recognize doesn't reach this maturity where he's able to actually defend against these adversarial predators maybe until they're two or three years old.  With that, you know, we typically see seven or eight good years following that, you know, with the application of livestock protection dogs.  So, it's something to realize that it's not something that's going to happen overnight.  It is a time-consumptive-type process.   They'll bark, especially at night.  That's a good thing, but it could be a negative thing.  Like I say, I'm talking about this interface with your neighbors.  So, if you have neighbors that don't appreciate a dog barking every time a raccoon or a possum or a fox or a coyote comes near, then that could potentially be something you'd want to consider.  You know, having predators and angry neighbors, you may prefer to have angry neighbors and keep the predators away.  But it's something to definitely take into consideration. 

  Not so much a big deal here in the East as it is in the West, but you got to realize that using dogs sometimes eliminates the capability of using of other predator protection mechanisms.  In the West we have, I guess, the pleasure of being able to use certain predicides, M44s, in certain instances to reduce conflicts with predators.  However, that's not necessarily compatible when you're using dogs because these are poisons that dogs and canines in general are susceptible to.  I don't think it's a tool that's necessary to use here in Wisconsin.  Traps and snares also you must take into consideration.  If you have traps on the landscape or snares, these dogs are vulnerable to those as well.  We actually have research where we've actually been able to train and avoid the poisons from the application of M44 devices, but, you know, just curiosity or whatnot around a trap set or snare set could potentially be harmful to that investment that that you made in the livestock protection dog.  So it's certainly something to consider.  [cough] I want to talk a little bit about protecting this resource.  In Colorado the American Sheep Industry Association claims that without the livestock protection dog for the protection of sheep, they'd be totally out of business. 

 And so that's a tool that they heavily rely upon if not totally dependent on.  And so we've seen a lot of situations where it necessitates a group effort to actually protect this livestock protection dog, protect this valuable resource in livestock protection.  And one way we've banded together to accomplish this is through education.  As a service, Wildlife Services, we produce several pieces of literature in the form of fact sheets that are available on our website.  Historically,we've been able to provide guidance through publications such as the "Livestock Guarding Dogs: Protecting Sheep from Predators" publication, but also there's a plethora of information available on the Internet that would help guide a producer on actually properly preparing and utilizing these dogs in the application of livestock protection.  And so educating the producer is very, very important to help protect this resource.  It comes along with not only being knowledgeable, but you have responsibilities.  And we see this more and more in the West.  Increasingly, we're seeing more and more people using public lands for hiking, biking, horseback riding, and just outdoor use in general.  And with that we've seen an increase in conflicts with livestock protection dogs on public lands. 

 And so we don't necessarily see that except for those people who refuse to realize that their little poodle off-leash running around on a forest trail running into a pack of sheep isn't a good thing.  Because it's not.  And these dogs, like I say, they're able to analyze threats, but when this dog runs into sheep, it's a potential train wreck.  And we've had several instances where that's become an issue.   We're seeing more and more conflicts with livestock protection dogs around urban and in rural areas that were traditionally used for farming, but they're now being used for, what we call, little ranchettes in the West.  And so we're seeing more and more conflicts between neighbors with livestock protection dogs.  So producer responsibility goes a big way.  So when you think about whether that can't be THAT big a deal, when the "Los Angeles Times" runs an article such as this, "Ranching, recreation collide in the great outdoors", it IS a big deal.  I mean, it's something we recognize nationally as a problem.  And what this particular article stemmed from was an incident in about 1990-- no, excuse me-- 2008, Eagle, Colorado, where a mountain biker was in a race and she got separated from the group of people. 

 And so the Forest Service had contacted the producer that there was a race going to be coming through his allotment.  And so when the group of riders came through a few hours later, he released his dogs.  Well, unbeknownst to the rest of the riders and the organizers, there was a lady who had fallen way behind.  She actually rode into a band of sheep, and with that came some horrible consequences.  She was attacked by these dogs and viciously attacked.  Didn't die but had upwards of 80 or 90 stitches, I understand.  But it set into motion a huge backlash from the public and especially those who were looking for ways to get people off of public lands.  You know, they might not have a problem with the dogs, but they use this as a tool because they're against public grazing, they're against agricultural use of public land, and trust me, it had a huge fallout.  And so when I'm talking about producer responsibility, I'm talking about more along the lines of this as well.  We have these dogs that are on public lands. 

 And this is an article in southwest Colorado where the sheep industry is so dependent on these animals, yet you see headlines such as this: "Fierce sheepdogs alarming tourists in SW Colorado." And basically it goes back to people who are producers and not using those dogs that have been properly socialized or properly trained to actually be out and around the public.  You know, they've taken these dogs and they've basically just turned them loose.  Sometimes they're free-breeding.  They've not been acclimated to human presence, not been socialized properly.  So with that comes some huge conflicts.  So, the American Sheep Ministry has been pro-active.  We as an agency have tried to help them be pro-active.  And we've come up with some livestock protection dog best management practices.  What these have done is they've allowed for us to help optimize the use of LPDs and minimize these conflicts.  And so it's not just the producers. 

 A lot of the problems can be attributed to the lack of knowledge or, for lack of a better word, ignorance of the general public on how they should react to sheep and sheepdogs on public lands.  And so we've worked with the sheep industry and the Forest Service and BLM to produced these signs that we've actually implemented throughout public lands, trailheads, trails, parking spots all along these national forest landscapes to where we can educate the public on the dos and don'ts around these dogs.  You know, if you see sheep, don't approach them, avoid them.  Keep your dog on a leash.  If you are confronted, this is what you should do.  So it's gone a long ways, we've evidently deterred some of the conflict.  And we've made this available initially .. we've exhausted our resource twice on the production of these along with a complimentary brochure.  But we're in development now.  We're going to produce this on more of a heavy-duty, rubberized-, vinylized-type plastic adhesive to where producers can purchase those in bulks of ten and apply them to a metal backing and hopefully get those out, not only on public lands but on private lands as well.  When this was initially developed, it was developed for public land use. 

 We saw a great response, and we actually wrote it to actually apply to private lands.  It's also available in Spanish.  Especially we see a lot of that need in the Western United States.  So there's a lot of educational components involved in this, as I mentioned.  A complimentary brochure went along with this.  You can find this in a lot of our different Forest Service visitor's centers, trailheads, and throughout the West where the public can use this resource to educate themselves.  Moving on a little bit.  This is, you know, a talk about guard animals, not just livestock protection dogs.  So, we get a lot of questions about the use of llamas.   Llamas do have attributes that some dogs don't possess that are beneficial. 

 They also have some negatives, and I want to talk a little bit about both of those.  For instance, they possess some behavioral and physical characteristics that make them favorable to livestock protectors.  Some of these attributes are: they're highly sociable.  So if you got a llama or two out in the pasture, they want to be around other livestock.  Maybe they want to be around horses, they may want to be around sheep, they may want to be around cattle.  Whatever it is.  It's not like they bond.  They do bond in a way, but not like dogs necessarily.  They're sociable animals.  They want to be around other animals. 

 So if you're not familiar with llamas you might think: That's odd.  How would they be protective of my livestock? Well, they're aggressive against canines, naturally innate ability or dislike of coyotes, foxes, wolves, dogs, whatever it may be.  Just innately they have a strong, aggressive disposition toward these animals.  So that's where it comes as a protective mechanism.  And realize they also are much taller than sheep.  They're much taller than cattle.  And so they can actually see and maybe perceive a threat quicker and sooner than your livestock may be able to see and react to it.  So that's an advantage that they possess.  Unlike dogs, though, they don't actively guard your sheep.   Dogs will actually try to maybe flock and get around the sheep, and they're actually protecting the sheep. 

 It's an indirect response from llamas-- they're protecting themselves.  And indirectly, your sheep or cattle or horses or poultry may benefit from that.  So they're not quite bonding like a dog would, but you do actually benefit from that indirect type of protection.  Like I said, there's pros and there's cons with most every tool.  Llamas are naturally social; they bond fairly quickly, so that's a positive.   They're naturally aggressive to foxes, coyotes, dogs, other canine species, wolves potentially.   They have similar maintenance, shelter, and feeding needs as sheep and goats.  They graze the same pastures, so I assume they're going to graze the same type of pastures as cattle.  So that would be a positive.  They generally have a calm temperament toward humans, so you're not going to have to worry about getting necessarily bitten. 

 You might get chased or intimidated a bit, but for the most part they're pretty calm, you know, reasonable animals.  They're long-lived, 20 - 25 years.  Actually outlive the life expectancy of a dog.  So, your original investment could be realized pretty quick and have long-term impacts to your protection of livestock.  They don't roam, they don't dig, and they don't bark.  That's a negative that dogs sometimes possess and llamas don't have.  There are cons with the llamas.  Several of these would be relevant to your situation here in Wisconsin.  They're vulnerable to being preyed upon by coyotes and dogs, so I suspect they'd be vulnerable to being preyed upon by wolves as well.  So that's something to be recognized. 

 There's difficulty in defending against multiple animals.  You typically don't think about one wolf, you think about a pack of wolves.  So that's something to recognize.  It could potentially work, but then again it may have negative consequences to the llama and your investment there.  They're less successful in pastures of dense vegetation or on large, open grasslands.  I don't think that large open grasslands would applicable here, but I suspect driving on the highways.  I saw the map that David showed.  Wolves are moving more and more in these pasture and cropland type situations, and some of your forests are very dense.  So this may be a handicap It's maybe something that's not suitable for certain landscapes here in Wisconsin, but then again, you know, it may be something worth investigating.   Llamas may have difficulty adjusting to living alone. 

 A lot of times they're lonely, but if they bond and socialize well with your animals that may not be a problem.  You might think, let's just get multiple llamas.  But then you run into the problem that if you have multiple llamas, a lot of times the llamas won't hang out together.  They won't actually intermingle with your livestock.  So that's something you want to consider.  They usually cannot be utilized with livestock protection dogs.  Logically, obviously, if they don't like dogs, they're not going to be able to work in tandem with these dogs.  Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be something worth testing to see if you could actually, you know, break that, I guess, you know, actually create a bond, but then if you get the llama used to dogs then he might not be as big a threat or as aggressive towards those dogs you're trying to protect against.  So, not always compatible with other applications of dogs.  [cough] Donkeys. 

 You see more and more literature.  You see more and more evidence of donkeys being used in cattle applications.  Donkeys are, indeed, another animal to consider.  They possess characteristics that make them favorable livestock protectors, much like the llamas.  They're highly territorial.  So if you have, you know, a 200-acre pasture and he lays that down and claims that as his territory, that's a good thing.  And so you think well, he's territorial of what? ...other donkeys? Well, no, he's actually territorial in general, and they instinctively do not like canines and they are aggressive towards them.  So if he's claimed as his territory and you have this potential for canine adversaries, then this could be a positive tool.  It could be something that would be beneficial in your particular situation.  They're an alert animal in pasture. 

 You know, you see them a lot of times they are just standing there, but they're actually very alert and very keen on being able to perceive potential threats.  So that's a good thing.  Much like llamas, as they're not purposely protective of your livestock, it's an indirect thing.  You know, he's looking out for himself, but your livestock benefit indirectly.  So much like the llama, that's pretty much the same type of deal.  Looking at some of the positive aspects beyond those I've mentioned: they typically bray loudly during times of perceived threats, such as I mentioned that dogs are vocal and may alert you to the presence of predators or threats, same with the donkeys.  You know, if you hear a donkey braying repetitively it could very well indicate you have a problem going on and you can respond to it.  Donkeys possess very good hearing and a wide field of vision.  Maybe they may not stand as tall as llamas, but they do actually have this attribute which allows them to be wary, aware of what's going on around them.  So that's certainly a positive attribute. 

 They're likely to stand their ground when challenged.  They're pretty hardheaded, pretty tough, you know.  They'll stomp a dog into paste and a coyote and whatnot.  So I'm not saying he's necessarily capable of fending off multiple predators, but he's definitely a worthy opponent.  So that's definitely something to take into consideration.   As well as like the llamas, they are long-lived, upwards of 30 years.  So it's a relatively small investment for a long return, so certainly a potential positive for you.  Pretty calm.  They pose little threat.  It's recommended that people don't have intact jacks. 

 That typically a jenny with maybe a foal is your best choice.  You know, even then sometimes some people think that more is better, but no.  Typically, same with the llamas, if you have more than one, males typically may fight or may team up and avoid your other livestock.  However, a jenny with a foal is probably the most you would want to apply.  And I've seen the numbers and depending on the size of pasture, but a jenny with a foal and a herd of 200 cattle is, you know, in Texas especially can be a good ratio.  So not a huge monetary investment and relatively easy to take care of.   Unlike dogs they don't roam, beg, or bark, just like llamas.  So if you're in an area where you have potential concerns with your dog wandering, donkeys may be a solution to that.  They are compatible, unlike dogs, with traps and other poison efforts.  So not necessarily applicable here to you in Wisconsin with predicides, but if you do have a mechanism, I'm not saying towards wolves, but I'm sure you trap coyotes and foxes and whatnot periodically. 

  So donkeys would be compatible with this type of damage technology.   There are cons as well with donkeys.  They may only react if they are threatened.  Like I say with the llamas, you know, it's an indirect protection, but if they feel threatened, they're very capable of maybe deterring that potential impact from predators trying to prey upon your livestock.   They cannot deal with multiple canine attackers, typically.  So when you're talking about 20 wolves in a pack and the way they actually approach livestock, sometimes that may not have good results.  But definitely something to look at and consider.   They may bray a great deal.  Just because, you know. [laughter] So they can drive you nuts and certainly drive your neighbors nuts.  So depending on your situation and where actually the proximity to this animal you have to yourself or your neighbors it's certainly something to consider. 

 They may have little guarding effect to widely-scattered livestock, cattle.  Or in large pastures, rough terrain, or heavy brush.  Each situation is different, but you never know until you try.  So it's certainly something to take into consideration, and maybe it may work in certain pastures but not in others.  But just because it doesn't work here doesn't mean it may not work there.  So it's certainly something to consider.  They may accept herding dogs or they may not.  Same with livestock protection dogs.  So if you rely heavily on herding dogs or you have a, you know, prized very successful livestock protection dog, the addition of the donkey to this, you know, integrated approach may not be your best bet.  So it's something to consider. 

 [cough] Donkeys may harass other livestock.  They can cause injuries.  So if you have a donkey that's actually shown to be aggressive to other livestock, probably best to immediately get it out.  It's probably not going to change.  You know, you have those that just don't get along, so certainly consider that.  It doesn't mean that all donkeys are that way, but certain attitudes, just like us, we all act a little bit different.  They're no different.   In wrapping this up, I usually mention this first in my presentation, but I certainly always end with it.  That is that you must recognize that there is no tool that is 100% effective in the realm of livestock protection.  David spoke heavily about it. 

 I talk about integrated wildlife damage management, which is a combination of preventative methods, but also a combination of control methods.  And so, there is no one tool.  The gentleman back here next to me asked if I brought a silver bullet, you know.  I wish we had one, we don't, we probably never will.  So it's being innovative, it's being creative, it's trying new things, it's trying new techniques.  It's trying, you know, to identify what is your vulnerability and how can I adapt to overcome that and shore that vulnerability up.  So using these different tools.  Livestock guard animals may be another component of that mix or that montage of tools.  So certainly recognize that, you know, it's going to be better if you integrate.  In my travels, in my presentations, I always talk about this integrated approach to predator control. 

 So it's something that I know makes people angry and there's a lot of, you know, "anti" sentiment toward these protective measures that go back and forth through the courts and all.  And our adversarial groups suing us.  And while our adversarial groups like to claim that we can prevent livestock damage and predation damage to livestock in a non-lethal fashion is simply not true.  Our professional society that we have a great relationship with, that represents all facets of wildlife management, wildlife damage management, and whatnot, the Wildlife Society-- they actually recognize and I quote: "Prevention or control of wildlife damage, which often includes removal of the animals responsible for the damage, is an essential and responsible part of wildlife management." That's what it boils down to.  It's an integrated approach that's going to require a combination of non-lethal methods, which are typically preventative methods, and those methods of control which are typically lethal.  In the end I think that's what's most important.  And so with that, I'll leave it open to any questions.  [applause]