Wisconsin Public Television University Place  Who We Are As A Nation Sister Simone Campbell  10/18/12 UP912  cc >> Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. >> Thank you. All right, on behalf of the University of Wisconsin here at Marathon County, the Wisconsin Institute for Public Policy and Service, and the American Association of University Women, we welcome you to the University of Wisconsin at Marathon County for this afternoon's forum entitled "Who We Are as a Nation," a conversation with Jean Feraca and Sister Simone Campbell. My name is Jeff Lee. [APPLAUSE] Oh, well thank you. [APPLAUSE] I think I stepped on your applause. [LAUGHTER] My name is Jeff Lee. I'm an associate professor of history here at University of Wisconsin, Marathon County, and I welcome you. This afternoon's forum would not be possible, however, without the help of many good people. 

Mary Lang Sollinger, Christine Bremer Muggli, Marian Seagren Hall, the volunteers of AAUW, Professor -- and Powell, our theater tech staff, and Chris --. We like to thank them very much for all the efforts that they've made. [APPLAUSE]  All right, I now give you Marian Seagren Hall of the American Association of University Women. [APPLAUSE]  >> Thank you, Jeff. And I'm pleased to see so many people here. Thank you for coming. As Jeff said, I'm Marian Seagren Hall. I am Program and College University Coordinator for the American Association of University Women of Wausau. We're pleased to be a sponsor for this event as AAUW's motto or mission is advancing equity for women and girls through advocacy, education, philanthropy, and research. Founded in 1881, AAUW is open to all graduates who hold an associate or higher degree from a regionally accredited college or university. 

AAUW values and seeks a diverse membership. AAUW's priorities include gender fairness, equity, and diversity in achieving in economic self-sufficiency for all women, guaranteeing equality, individual rights, and social justice for a diverse society. That is what we will be hearing and talking about today. I am pleased to introduce Jean Feraca who is an award winning broadcast journalist, writer, and poet, whose career with public radio spanned more than 30 years. In 2001, Jean launched the pioneer multimedia talk show she hosted for 10 years, Here On Earth: Radio Without Borders, named by the BBC one of the best English language programs in the world. [APPLAUSE]  In 2008, Here on Earth was awarded a major grant from the Social Science Research Council to produce the series, "Inside Islam: Dialogues and Debates" which won a Brass Crescent Award and a Gabriel Award. An earlier series of docudramas, "Women of Spirit," about the influence of female leaders in the early Christian church won a Gabriel Award and an Ohio State Award. Jean, welcome to Wausau. [APPLAUSE]  >> I am very pleased to see all of the people that have shown up today, and I think you're in for a real treat. I am quite pleased to have Sister Simone Campbell join us. 

Sister is a sister of social justice, and, as many of you know, she is a leader, a facilitator, but perhaps you didn't know she's also a lawyer and a poet. She is currently the executive director of Network, a national Catholic social justice lobby in Washington, DC, and recently she led the Nuns on the Bus, the tour that... [APPLAUSE]  The tour that garnered national attention as the nuns spoke up to lift up the needs of people who live in poverty, and how the Ryan House budget would devastate these folks. Her past experience includes positions of executive director of Jericho, an interfaith public policy and advocacy organization in California, and she was the lead attorney of a community law center in California. She is a leader of her international community, and we are so pleased to have her with you. I give you Sister Simone Campbell. [APPLAUSE]  >> You humble me. Thank you. >> I've been thinking, a lot of people ask me what were your most memorable interviews, and I usually answer Captain Kangaroo... [LAUGHTER] Timothy Leary, Al Gore, Colin Powell, and now Sister Simone. 

[LAUGHTER] >> We hope. We hope. [APPLAUSE] No performance anxiety with that. [LAUGHTER] >> You are so prominent now in public life. >> I know. [LAUGHTER] >> And it's quite remarkable when you think about it. Just a little bit of historical context here. When I say Tertullian, you're going to know who I'm talking about. One of the first fathers of the church in the third century who said, and this I know from my "Women in Spirit" series, women taught Adam badly. [LAUGHTER] Therefore, women should step down. 

>> Nope. [LAUGHTER] >> And those words resulted in women being hidden and buried in history for many hundreds of years. What is it that compelled you to step forward in a very risky way, I would say, to prominence on the political stage? >> It's an interesting question because it was sort of an accident I think. I think it's the holy spirit. Okay, I'm a person of faith so I'm going to talk about the holy spirit, but the Vatican in April censured the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, and they named our organization, Network, as being a suspect organization for the LCWR to relate to. [APPLAUSE] It's true. And so the amusing part to me is that that censure happened on April 18th. On April 14th, we had just celebrated our 40th anniversary as an organization. We had this fabulous party. It was wonderful. 

My board had taken two years to plan it, and the big question was: how do we get our name known? [LAUGHTER] How do we let people know who we are and what our mission is? [LAUGHTER] So we were going to take out some online ads. We were going to ask a member to get another member. We were doing all these little things. And then with the Vatican censure, immediately I was taking calls from the New York Times, from AP, from all these folks, but very quickly what I realized is, it's not about us. For Catholic sisters, it's never about themselves, and it's always about how do we use whatever is given for mission. So my question very quickly became: how do we use this moment of notoriety for mission? And I started talking to Catholics and they were really upset and so angry and so depressed. They were no help at all. [LAUGHTER] So what happened was, every morning I do an hour of meditation and what came to me in meditation was that we didn't have a big enough imagination at Network. We needed help. And the story, if you know the gospel story of what's called the Samaritan Woman at the Well. 

Jesus is outside Palestine, he's in a foreign land, and he goes to this outcast stranger and asks her for help. And Tertullian had it wrong, Jesus asked women for help all the time. And so let them stand forward. And so the help that I asked for was in DC with colleagues not in the faith community, but would you help us figure this out because we have too small of an imagination. And they came together. On May 14th we came up with this idea of the bus, but it didn't seem like courage at the time. It was just what we do. It's expanding our mission because Network is all about lifting up those at the margins of society. So it was just pushing back on the Ryan budget, something we've been doing for two years since he first proposed it. >> A lot of people expected you to arrive on the bus, can you tell us where the bus is now? [LAUGHTER] >> Oh, I'm so sorry. 

[LAUGHTER] Oh, my heavens. We could only afford it for two weeks. [LAUGHTER] It was very expensive. We're a low budget operation. But what we have, but I couldn't fit them in my carry-on bags, are we have car magnets now that you can put on your car, and you can have the bus design so you can be on the bus. What's happening, the magic of what's happening, we had to give the bus back. We only rented it for two weeks. It was way expensive, but it was gorgeous. It was beautiful. But what's happened now is that sisters in various states are doing their own Nuns on the Bus. 

Sisters in Ohio just did a six-state tour. I got to see them off in Cincinnati. They had an amazing journey. So you can Google nunsonthebusohio.com and you can see all about their trip. You can see the sisters in Missouri have done a trip. The sisters in New York state have done day trips in various cities. And a couple weeks ago we did Nuns on the Staten Island Ferry. [LAUGHTER] But it's the local sisters lifting up their programs, and it's sort of like wildfire. So now we have rules of engagement, if you want to be a Nun on the Bus. Because we heard from some Methodists in Mississippi who wanted to be Nuns on the Bus. 

[LAUGHTER] So the rules are these, they're very simple. The rules are these: you have to have at least one nun. [LAUGHTER] You have to speak civilly. And I was really glad to hear that those are the ground rules here: speak civilly. That it's not about partisan campaigning for or against anybody. You have to lift up the needs of people at the margins of our society, either about safety net issues, about Medicaid expansion, about things that affect the folks that are struggling the most. And then just keep in touch with us. Let us know what you're doing, and you, too, could be a Nun on the Bus. [LAUGHTER] So we're franchising it, I think. [APPLAUSE] >> What was the intention of the Nuns on the Bus? What were you intending to do? >> Well, our idea was we were going to educate folks outside of DC about what was happening with the Ryan budget because people didn't know. 

And there's all these soundbites and what do you believe. We thought that since a lot of nuns, not me, but a lot of nuns are educators, we thought we can educate. We can go out and do that. And so a lot of our work has been about educating about what's actually in the Ryan budget and to get beyond the soundbites so that people understand complex financial, mysterious financial decisions we have to make to be responsible. So that was our goal. What happened was we also got educated in the process, which was sacred and wonderful. >> And what does that mean? In what sense were you educated? >> Oh, my glory. The people we've met, the stories we've heard, the amazing lives that we've touched. The glory of starting the Nuns on the Bus Ohio is we started in Cincinnati, and I got to invite three of the folks that I met on the bus to join us in Cincinnati, to share their stories, and then launch the Ohio bus on its way. And here's this, actually Jeanie and her sister Lynn whose sister died because she didn't have healthcare, they actually live in Madison. 

So it was great. We had a Wisconsin representative there. We had Shiesha from Chicago who was in foster placement as a kid because of her mom's incapacity to raise her and her siblings. And her struggle to pull life together and how fabulously she's doing because of Pell Grants and because of supportive housing at Mercy Housing, and she's now becoming a leader. She took her first airplane ride to come to Cincinnati. It was magic. And then the third one was Wilbur from Cleveland who's raising six daughters by himself. And he's the chief cook at St. Augustine's food program in Cleveland. This wonderful, gentle man who is working so hard for his family. All three got to tell their stories. 

They break my heart. I cried with a whole bunch of people, but these folks are fabulous, hardworking folks making a go of it. >> And in what way would the Ryan budget, if it gets passed, affect the lives of these individuals? >> It would decimate them. We've got to be fiscally responsible. We totally believe that at Network. But the safety net programs are not the ones that are causing the trouble. So, on food stamps alone, the food program alone, Bread for the World figured out that with the cuts that the Ryan budget, which has been passed by the House so far, those cuts are so big and so bad, and Congressman Ryan says churches could take over. Well, churches do nice work, but let's be real about this. Bread for the World, who does food programs alone, figured out that every church, every synagogue, every mosque, every house of worship in the US, every single one of them would have to raise an additional $50,000 each every year for 10 years to replace the money that he wants to cut from food programs. And what he's saying is it makes people dependent. 

I just want to say people are dependent on eating. [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] I mean, really. But what's missed is he's complaining that people who are working are getting food stamps And in Milwaukee I met Billy and his wife and two kids. Billy's hours were cut back. Yes, he's working. His wife is working. They're making enough money not even to get them out of poverty. And so they're working, but they survive because they chose to keep a roof over their heads as opposed to going homeless so they could buy food. They get by on food stamps and the St. Benedict's feeding program, dining room. Every night they go to the St. Benedict's dining room because they know their kids will get nutritious food there. 

Well, these are the very programs that Congressman Ryan thinks create dependency. We don't understand as a nation the working poor working at minimum wage are still in poverty. So I say, these programs are not handouts, they're subsidies to employers who can have low wage workers and still have them fed. They are subsidies to families. [APPLAUSE] And they're subsidies to us because employers pay lower wages and they have lower costs so we benefit too. So I think we have to be real about this. We're all involved in this thing together, and if we're going to find a way forward, we have to acknowledge the integration of the system. This is not individualism. This is all of us are in this together. We have a highly integrated economy, and we need to be real about it. 

Said she, opinionatedly. >> That's a very interesting point because I think most of us think of the poor as being a separate class unto themselves. And I heard Representative Ryan say the other day that what poor people need is discipline and there was something else. Discipline and character. And I agree with that. We all need discipline and character, but I think what we fail to understand is the way poverty is, the systems of poverty that keep people poor. Because after all, we've had the war on poverty for many, many administrations now. It was Johnson, I think, who first proclaimed the war on poverty. Why is it that we still have poor people? >> Well, we still have poor people because we changed the social contract in about 1980. We were doing really significant work in making change. 

And, in fact, between 1949 and 1979, everybody's income went up 100% and people made significant gains, significant gains. And our educational facilities, here we are in an educational facility, were improving dramatically. We were investing in our nation. But then, in about 1980, what you see is a dramatic shift. And this idea that Ronald Reagan, President Reagan called it trickle down. The fact is nothing trickles. That's the problem. I do this exercise of, we call it a human bar graph, but what happens is, in the human bar graph, you see the growth of income for everyone from the bottom 80% of the population is 11% down, and the bottom 20%, for the period between 1979 and 2009, the poorest 20%, their revenue went down 7%. It went down 7%. And this is partially because of choices we made. 

We made choices about not increasing minimum wage. We made choices about undermining unions who bargain for their workers. We made choices about housing policy that makes it more and more difficult for low income housing stock to be improved and to keep up property values in low income neighborhoods. We made some really big tax policy choices that favor the top and not the bottom. I mean, there was a concerted effort to shift money up, and they've been terribly successful. Okay, now I told you the bottom 20% went down 7%, right? You got that? Down. The top 20% went up 50%. So you think, well, that's a lot. But what you have to know is the top 5% went up 73%. But the top 1%, the top 1% went up 170%. 

So when you have someone whose income has gone up over 30 years 170%, you get so far, I think, you get so far out of reach with the reality of the bottom 20% who has lost 7%. And you just don't know. You just don't know. And hence, because I think they don't know, I keep inviting everybody to come and meet my people. Come and meet my people so that you can hear the stories. Let your heart be broken by these people who work so hard, who have so much determination. Can you imagine Wilbur raising six girls by himself, a man of determination? I mean, and then tell him he's not disciplined. Give me a break. >> Sister Simone, you're obviously a woman religious. Can you tell us how your faith informs your politics? >> That's at the heart of it. 

Okay. Okay, I'll talk faith talk, but you all have to bear with me. I've had people on the bus say, gee, we love your message, it's just when you start talking religion that's a problem. [LAUGHTER] Okay, for me, everybody has their own path, and we're all, okay, my faith tells me that we're one body, that we're all connected, that we're not separate, and that we may or may not realize that we're all connected, but we're all connected. And I have what I call a contemplative practice, which is listening deeply to God alive in our world and God alive in me, and it's listening deeply to the nudges of asking for help.  And, for me, that's a prayer, because we're one body, we're all connected. I know that the spirit moves among us. And so when I lobby, I think of it as a contemplative action because I listen deeply for connections. I met with Paul Ryan in July, and I tried really hard to find connections. And I wasn't successful in his office, but when we're leaving he had to go over to the Capitol for a meeting and our office is on the other side of the Capitol so I walked over with him. 

And he told me that he was grateful I didn't bring the press because he judges whether or not people really care about the issue or do they just want the soundbite. Well I said I care passionately about the issues. And I felt like we got some connection in that moment where you didn't have to be totally scripted. So my faith gets me under some barriers. >> So, what are the questions that you ask yourself when you are considering casting your vote for someone who's running for political office? >> Hmm, good question. I've usually made up my mind kind of earlier than that. [LAUGHTER] But I've already voted. The key things for me about anyone that would represent me, I would want to know where do they stand really about issues that affect people in poverty. I would really want to know where, can they ask a question and listen to the answer? Do they actually know about the struggle of people? Real people? Or are they just political opportunistic ads? And I would like to know their track record. What have they done that have evidenced those other capacities? >> How do you cut through the claims? How do you, the misinformation? The distortion? >> I know. 

Isn't it hard? >> How do you differentiate? Because, in this particular election, you have Catholics on both sides who are both claiming to speak for the same moral cause. How do you differentiate? >> Well, it's those very same criteria for me, is caring for people at the margins of our society is the pro-life stance. And it drives me nuts that the Catholic question is the abortion question. That just drove me nuts because pro-life is about so much more than that. [APPLAUSE] Oh. Oh, thank you. [APPLAUSE] I mean, really. Since I got applause, then I'll use it. [LAUGHTER] But seriously, it's not just pro-birth, it's about all of life. And, quite frankly, it's not just human life. 

It's all of creation. It's the cosmos. It's bigger concerns, as we know. [APPLAUSE] You're environmentalists, I see. [LAUGHTER] But seriously, within the Catholic tradition we have these fabulous writings. We have harder livings. That's the trouble. >> What writings are you speaking of? >> Oh, like, for instance, our Catholic bishops have said the Ryan budget fails a basic moral test. And then you've got bishops that disagree, and so there's a little wa-wa-wa-wa-wa. [LAUGHTER] Every family has its little squabbles. 

So there's disagreement about that, but the formal stance of the bishops is saying that the Ryan budget fails a basic moral test. So what I try to do is to use our teaching and apply it to the various positions. What you have to do is look behind the positions, not to just what they're saying, to what have they actually done in their lives that evidenced that they'll follow through. >> When you speak about the common good, clearly you've laid out for us what that means to you, which is that we are, in fact, all connected, and that what happens to the poor also affects each of us and that we are, in some way, colluded in the systems that keep people poor. But what about the great concern that many of us have about the indebtedness that the country has, and the possible implications, the consequences for the next generation of Americans? What about that in terms of the common good? >> Absolutely. We need to be fiscally responsible. But it wasn't social programs that got us into this problem. We have to be really clear. Where did we get in this? Those of us that have gray hair like me, somebody pointed it out to me that some of the gray hair you forget, you don't remember, but anyway... [LAUGHTER] In 2000, the big campaign issue was what do we do with our surplus. 

That was a big campaign issue. And what did we do with it? We made the decision as a nation to elect people that would give it back to individuals. Therein began the slippery slope of the debt rising again, of our deficit rising again. Then what did we do? Okay, one huge tax cut, then we choose to wage war in Afghanistan, and to me the horror of making that choice of having our men and women in uniform in harm's way and we did not do anything as the rest of the people pay for it. Ask them to take risks. [APPLAUSE] I think that was seriously wrong. We did it once. Then we did another tax cut, and then we decide to wage a second war, and again we chose not to pay for it. And I just think that those were four bad mistakes. If we needed to go to war, the least the rest of us could have done was to pay for it so that our children aren't paying for it. 

That was wrong in my book. Of course, I don't have children. But figuratively. So therein we got into trouble. Now, the Bush Administration, in order to sort of hide that fact, kept the wars in what we called off-budget items. So they were passed in supplementals. It's technical talk in DC. But supplementals just are, you're supposed to fund surprises. They're like the emergency fund. So like Hurricane Katrina was an emergency, a true emergency, nobody expected Hurricane Katrina, and so that's when you use a supplemental. 

Every year or every 18 months the Bush Administration would say, oh, we're at war, what a surprise! We don't have any money. We need a supplemental to pay for it. They knew perfectly well we were at war, but it never went into the budget. So when the Obama Administration came in, they said no, we're going to put it in the budget. So some of the argument about the deficit's bigger than it ever was is because they're doing real budgeting. That's part of the problem. So we need to be responsible. [APPLAUSE] Okay, okay, okay. But I can tell she's getting nervous that I'm talking too long. [LAUGHTER] So just let me give you the pieces. 

Okay, so we need to do real budgeting, that's true. Then what we need to do is we need to raise revenue. The only way out of the disaster we have run ourselves into is that raising revenue. Now, this is not politically expedient to say that just before an election, but I'm not running for office so I will tell you the truth. No matter how you slice it, you're not going to make enough cuts, no matter what you cut, to fix this problem. We need revenue. And so the interfaith community in DC came together, and we've got a faithful budget. A faithful budget is the way forward. It's the alternative to the Ryan budget. You can see it at faithfulbudget.org for those of you that are web savvy. 

That's pretty easy to find. Faithfulbudget.org. But it boils down to five words. What we need is reasonable revenue for responsible programs. And what we're saying is social programs, the safety net programs, they were extremely responsible. They are very accountable. But you know what? All government programs should be accountable, including the Pentagon. The Pentagon has programs, has these contracts where there's no competition. No-bid contracts. The Pentagon has contracts where, they call it cost plus. 

So as much as you cost is fine plus we'll guarantee you a profit. Is that free market? I don't think so. Not last time I checked. >> Would you consider that a form of entitlement? >> Glad you said it. Yes. [APPLAUSE] >> That was an honest question. >> Absolutely. It's a form of entitlement, but the defense industry is very clever. I understand, I haven't proven this, but every congressional district has a defense contractor in it, strategically, so that nobody will cut the defense spending because its a jobs bill, but it's the most ineffective jobs bill you can imagine. Now I've got some hard questions. 

[LAUGHTER] >> This is the hard question. >> This is. >> How do we get the people to listen when their churches have dictated how they should vote? >> Oh, glory. Do you remember Jiminy Cricket? You all remember Jiminy Cricket? Let your conscience be your guide. [LAUGHTER] You know, it's really, I don't know what's going on within my beloved Catholic church right now, but it's kind of hard, it's kind of sad, it's kind of painful. But the fact is the highest teaching within our church talks about what's called the primacy of conscience. That means each of us has a moral obligation to form our own consciences and make our choices based on those consciences. >> Sounds pretty Protestant to me. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] >> It was Vatican II. Maybe we're just catching up with the Protestants. 

[LAUGHTER] But the key there is forming our own conscience, and I really think what's going on right now is not about faith so much, within the Catholic church, it's not about faith so much as culture. It's a struggle in culture because the model of organization of the Catholic church comes out of Europe, and they're about the monarchy. And Vatican II talked about the inculturation of faith in other cultures, and I always thought they meant Asia, Africa, some place really strange, but I didn't realize that they were also talking about a democratic culture, which is us. So the inculturation of faith in a democratic culture, I think is the tension right now between an organization that's monarchy and those of us who live in a democratic culture. That understanding of faith is really a key wrestling. So the primacy of conscience really fits in that democratic sense. >> You, when I say you, you were the architect of this now infamous letter. >> Oh, that letter. >> The nuns letter that supported affordable care. >> Right. 

>> And really helped to get it passed. [APPLAUSE]  >> I'm very proud of it, and I actually thought if I never did anything else in my life it would be worth it. That moment was worth it because we did write the letter that 59 leaders of Catholic sisters, congregations signed that was, I was told by many, was the tipping point for the passage of the Affordable Care Act. I was told by the President that it was the tipping point. I was very honored to do that. And the other piece I'm really honored to say that our analysis has held up. Our bishops chose not to support the Affordable Care Act because what they said was that there was federal funding for abortion in the Affordable Care Act. There is no federal funding of abortion in the Affordable Care Act, period. [APPLAUSE] And now two federal courts have found, as a matter of law, for those of you that aren't lawyers, when people say as a matter of law what it means is there's no dispute. There's no question. 

There's nothing for a jury to decide. As a matter of law, both federal district courts found that there is no federal funding of abortion in the Affordable Care Act. Now, when the Supreme Court affirmed the Affordable Care Act in June when we were still on the bus, the bishops came out with a statement lamenting the funding of abortion in the Affordable Care Act. Well they finally changed their website, I guess they finally believed the district courts, and now they say they don't say that there is federal funding of abortion, they say they fear that there's federal funding of abortion. [LAUGHTER] Well, I take the federal courts. I think we're okay. So, the tension around the Affordable Care Act is one of your examples of misinformation. Of people using fear to drive us apart. Of people using fear to keep us separated. And the whole point of the Affordable Care Act is to say we're in this together. 

We've got to fix healthcare in our nation. It makes sense. [APPLAUSE] >> Next question is, do you have suggestions as to how to engage a rural conservative community on social justice issues? >> Is that what we're doing? I don't know. [LAUGHTER] You know, I'm a city girl so I wrote a poem once about winter wheat and I had to go talk to somebody about what did that really mean because I didn't have a clue. [LAUGHTER] So I don't know that I can really answer that well for you. I can say from my own experience trying to talk to people who think differently, the place to start is what do we value? What do we value? What do we hold most dear? And if it's a faith community, often it's the treasure of life and the dignity of life. And then how do we value all life? And can we see that we're in this together in valuing life? Sometimes if it's civic, I love our Constitution. The Preamble to the Constitution is a perfect place to start because it's not about I the individual or I the rich person or I the this. It's about we the people of the United States. It doesn't say we the citizens. 

This is we the people, all of us here. And so when you start with those kinds of values and then you say, how can we do this together? What it does require, though, is that I've got to let go of my pet programs that I really want to convince them to go along with and build some way forward together which might be a little bit of their idea and a little bit of my idea. Maybe something new will emerge. But it starts with our shared values. Then we don't have to clobber each other so much, I hope. >> Two of the church's earliest saints were a gay couple who put their love for God and each other above their love of empire. The church's current stance on homosexuality is much less forgiving. Why? Why is our country using religion to fuel homophobia? >> Oh, my poor church. [LAUGHTER] Our poor church. Here's the deal, I think. 

Okay, we're going to be real about this, right? By church is not doing too well when it comes to issues of sex. Let's be real. [LAUGHTER] Well, no. I mean, really, seriously. The issues of pedophilia, it's a shocking sin. I practiced family law for 18 years, and I worked with kids who had been abused. It's horrible. It's wrong. It's horrible. We need to atone. 

And the leadership in the church doesn't know how to atone. And I have this hunch, this goes back to my contemplative stuff, I have this hunch that our leadership has the same hunger for the sacred that I do and the same hunger for that sense of unity with God that leads me to religious life and to wanting to live this life, and it is the biggest joy of my life. But they don't have much in the way of skill of doing it. And they've gotten all into this administration and being a big corporation and all this stuff, and that they get tripped up in judgment. So it's easier for them, they feel like that spiritual leadership is to be judgmental when I really think if they could just read the scripture a bit more it's about being with people, not spending so much energy judging who's in and who's out. And so while I say I'd really invite any of the bishops to come meet my people too, but one of the real hard things right now in the American hierarchy is that the maximum number of years of pastoral experience that any of our bishop leaders have is five years. So they haven't really had to walk with folks who are suffering. And when you haven't done it, just like we've seen politically, you can be really judgmental and say they're lazy and they need to be responsible and develop character and then they'll be fine. Because they don't know people. So we've got the same problem. 

>> I had a very interesting conversation with my niece this week who is a small business owner in North Carolina and a republican who converted from being a liberal. And she's very, very concerned about the contraception issue. The Affordable Care Act. >> What's her concern? >> I think, this question, actually, might catch it. >> Oh, okay. >> As nuns of Catholic faith, how do you resolve the dilemma presented with Affordable Care Act as to abortion, contraception, and seeming violation of right to religious freedom? >> Oh, good question. All right, here's the skivvy on Health and Human Services. Okay, I took care of abortion in the Affordable Care Act. That's done. It's not there. 

Okay, the Health and Human Services issued these regulations to implement the Affordable Care Act because the Affordable Care Act says that, what an idea, we should have access to health so things that promote health should be provided to a patient at no cost. Good idea. It incentivizes using good stuff for us as opposed to waiting until you get sick so you only get paid if you get sick. So that sort of makes you want to get, doctors want you to get sick. So that's a problem. So good health, that's what we're going for. So there's all these Institute of Medicine studies that say women, which is really interesting, despite some complications that are caused by chemical contraceptives, women who use contraceptives have better health results. That's really interesting. What they think is that it's not the contraceptives themselves but it's the attention to their body. It makes women more attentive and, therefore, get better health results. 

So, the Department of Health and Human Services, seeing the Institute of Medicine studies, said, okay, so women should have access to contraceptives at no charge if it's going to increase their health results. So that's what they say. They did a terrible job, terrible job at promoting this because then what they said was that churches who object to providing that on religious grounds are exempt. Houses of worship is what they're actually called. Houses of worship are exempt from this requirement. And then what they said in a not very elegant way, religious related organizations, like Catholic charities, all these other groups, will have a year to accommodate. A year to accommodate. Made it sound like we were all going to have brain transplants was the only way to accommodate. And so we all were up in arms. That was wrong. 

That was the wrong way forward. I was talking to Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who issued these things, and it turns out what they used for the definition of who had to comply and who was going to have this year exception was who files a 990 which is an IRS form. Churches don't file it because you can't tax churches because it's a whole Constitutional argument. But a lot of service related organizations who are religiously related file it because we have served diverse populations, we have diverse employees, and so their idea was diverse employees should have access to contraceptives if they would choose to. Their own conscience. So it's not just the employer's conscience; it's the employee's conscience. Then what the President got upset, I understand was really mad because this was a brouha and Network was with the bishops saying this is wrong, you've got to fix it. So here's the deal. Within five weeks they figured it out. They issued a regulation that says church related organizations that have third party contracts, I'm getting really wonkish but it's really important, third party contract, we at Network have a contract with Kaiser Permanente to provide healthcare to our employees. 

We could choose to not provide this free contraceptive coverage to our employees. The beauty of it, it immediately shifts the responsibility to the insurance company to provide it to the employee at no charge. It's not us providing it. It's to shift this. And this is regulation now for third party contracts. The reason why insurance companies are not up in arms about it is they save money if they do that. And it's not to effect the cost I have to pay as a religious employer. So I'm going to be curious to see if the religious employers have to pay more because of higher incidence of maternal use. The two places that aren't settled yet are for self-insured and for the two or three religious insurance companies. The administration issued proposed regulations, asked questions, had five different ways of fixing it. 

The commentary period closed June 30th. They're working on fixing it. The bishop staff got some Catholic organizations to file suit saying religious liberty, religious liberty. Those lawsuits, I understand, have not been served because they didn't allege the accommodation for the third party contract, and the real question, the unsettled question with regards to the self-insured and the religious insurance company is, do you trust the President to follow through on his commitment where he said he's going to fix it? I personally do. Apparently, the bishop staff does not. But the fact is a significant step forward has already been made, there is a commitment to making sure religious liberty is not violated, but there's also a commitment to making sure that woman employees can exercise their conscience as well. And I think one of the real tensions is when we get into the area where I want to impose my conscience on everybody else, and I think that trumps. Because I'm the employer, my conscience can trump anybody else's conscience? That's a real slippery slope. >> Do you think this answer falls under the category of my church has a problem with sex? [APPLAUSE] >> Elementary, my dear Watson, elementary. That's the sad thing is that we've got all this great teaching but not a lot of great actions sometimes. 

And I think the holy spirit is alive and well and stirring up great stuff. We just celebrated the 50th anniversary of Vatican II, which was our big renewal program. A lot of exciting things happened, and look what's happenening now. It's kind of fun. >> A young priest recently proclaimed from the pulpit that if the affordable healthcare was enforced, Catholic schools, hospitals, etc, will go out of business. >> Yeah, right. >> Will have to close because they will otherwise be forced to act against their moral values. How can we respond to this? Is this true? >> Laugh. Laugh. [LAUGHTER] It's sort of true. 

That's absurd. [APPLAUSE] I mean, really. I don't mean to light about it, but I just gave you a very long explanation about how conscience is being accommodated. I want to treat it seriously. But the fact is look what's happening. People are using fear to drive us apart as a people, and that is wrong. [APPLAUSE] We have got to claim our country back from this fear mongering, and the fact is it's about we the people solving tough problems, not trying to scare each other into doing it my way or the highway. And one of the things that makes me really concerned is that I believe that, especially if your young priest, probably means it but he just doesn't know enough. So the effort to try to be able to talk but the fear levels are so high, and some of the things recently that I've seen or have been written about me doesn't make me a good emissary of that. I mean, really, to bridge these divides and we read the scripture together. 

Any scripture would be better than this. But we don't have to be afraid of each other. >> Do you have reservations about the Affordable Care Act? >> Oh, my glory, I work in politics. Of course I've got reservations. That's part of our, let's face it, the Affordable Care Act was never supposed to be the final bill. It was supposed to get conferenced with the House bill. We like the House bill way better because it had better provisions for affordability, it had better competition measures, it had some great support for low income folks. We like the House bill way better, but you know what happened? Business was behind the Senate bill, the Affordable Care Act. We're behind the House bill, all of us patient advocates. We're all on the House bill side. 

What happened was there was an election in Massachusetts where Scott Brown got elected to Senator Kennedy's seat. The democrats lost 60 in the senate because you need a super majority to pass anything in the Senate. So once they lost that one seat, you know what happened? Everybody changed sides in a nanosecond. I knew that the House bill was going nowhere. There was never going to be a conference committee. The only way forward was to get the House to pass the Senate bill. So what happened was all the patient advocates trotted over to the Senate. Oh, we love the Senate bill. It's beautiful. [LAUGHTER] We'll fix it. 

We'll fix it. Business then says, maybe we can get out without having healthcare reform. I think we need to start over, they start saying. So the only way we were going to get anything to fix this horribly broken healthcare system was to accept the Senate bill, and that's what happened. Finally, the Senate bill got passed by the House, they fixed some of the affordability issues because you could do it in what's called reconciliation which is a technical thing, it's just about money, but it's not a perfect bill. And it wasn't what anybody thought was going to be the bill that would be implemented, and some of its problems are because it was the business bill and we had the patients bill and they never got blended. But it's way better than what no reform would be. So let's be real about that. Medicare is being dramatically helped because of the Affordable Care Act. So let's be real. 

>> In what way? >> Oh, it's helping bend the curve on cost. Doesn't that sound like a DC thing to say? [LAUGHTER] But it's helping to bring cost down. Because it's changing the incentives from what has been a fee for service payment, so everybody who gets service so that a doctor has interest in providing you more service, is being changed so that it's more about what we call capitation rates. So that it's based on the number of individuals that you serve and how well they are. So here I get to be a name dropper. I was talking to Secretary Sebelius of Health and Human Services... [LAUGHTER] And she said that already, because Medicare is not paying for hospital acquired infections, rehospitalization for hospital acquired infections, that there has been a dramatic decrease in those sorts of infections. Isn't that fabulous? That's fantastic. [APPLAUSE] People are healthier. People are healthier because of the Affordable Care Act. 

What a thought. Wow. [LAUGHTER] And we're not bankrupt, so hey. >> Here's another question about the Affordable Care Act. Most of these are actually about the Affordable Care Act. >> Everybody loves the Affordable Care Act. >> Romneycare is supposed to be one of the signature accomplishments of then-Governor Romney in Massachusetts, getting everybody covered by insurance. Why, then, are Governor Romney and the republicans so against Obamacare, which is modeled after the Massachusetts plan? >> Because they're republicans and they have to run on something. [APPLAUSE] I mean, really. Let's be real about this. 

The concern is, I hope there's some republicans here because we desperately need republicans to reclaim your party, please. [APPLAUSE] Because we need reasonable representatives of the business community. That's historically who republicans are. We desperately need a serious conversation about how do we go forward together because unless we have a balanced conversation, we're running our country into a ditch. This is not democracy. This is about holding hostage. Any sort of compromise is being seen as weakness. And we desperately need people at the table to represent, to do democracy. Democracy is we the people deciding this stuff through our representatives, not by threatening to oust them. That Senator Lugar was defeated in a primary from Indiana because he was doing responsible work is shocking. 

You all have your own experience here. I was trying not to be too personal. [LAUGHTER] But this idea that we can, it's just about winning the game, is wrong. And I've been doing a lot of editorial board meetings and challenging editorial boards to find an alternative metaphor for democracy. The idea that we use a sports metaphor for democracy is outrageous to me because what happens is it makes us couch potatoes. We all pick our team. You wear you colors, blue or red, purple, you know, and then maybe you have some buttons and you all around here have cheeseheads, I know. [LAUGHTER] And all you do is watch. Democracy is not a spectator sport. It's about participation. 

And we need people at the table who represent all facets of our society. And the idea that one facet of our society has been run off the rail by folks who just want to hold teacups is really horrible for us. We can't govern that way. [APPLAUSE] We need republicans. Reclaim your party, please. So that we can have a conversation because what's happening is the only way they can get is elected is by saying these really extreme things, and if you say really extreme things, that seems to get votes and then you're playing the game. And now what they're doing is slip-sliding away back to the middle because we think it's not participation, we have very short memories, and so it's just whatever the latest soundbite we heard. Well, they said they were for the middle class. >> I think what I'm hearing you say is you're calling us to a higher standard. You're calling us to think in terms of who we are as a people. 

And let's face it, most of us vote out of self-interest. >> We don't. That's what all the studies say. We all think we do, but there's studies over and over and over that people don't vote their self-interest. >> Well, that's partially because they're manipulated out of it. They're manipulated out of understanding what their best interest is. >> Yeah. >> But what I'm thinking about is, for instance, I asked my dry cleaner... >> Oh, good. >> I said, I guess as a business owner, a small business owner, I think I know who you're voting for. 

And he conceded. And I think most small business owners feel that their best interest is represented by the Romney/Ryan plan. >> Why? It's going to undercut everything. Okay, let's do the Affordable Care Act. Affordable Care Act for small business already benefits small business. I run a small business. We have 14 employees. We pay 100% of healthcare costs for our employees, not for their families, can't afford that, and so I pay, I, I feel like it, I sign the check for $550 per employee per month for healthcare. It's the best I can do. We bargain, we do everything we can, and we're grateful for that. 

But you know the Affordable Care Act? We got $9,000 back in a rebate because we provided healthcare to our employees, and it was a significant help in helping defray those costs. The Affordable Care Act benefits small business. If you go to the Romney/Ryan budget, what's going to happen with all of the stripping out of the investment in our society is we're going to have worse roads, so your dry cleaner isn't going to be able to get his dry cleaning back from where he takes it for processing, and what's going to happen is we're going to have a huge problem with regards to energy because they're going to continue, speaking of entitlements, the oil companies that have the largest profits in history are continuing to need subsidies from us? Hello. That's in the Romney/Ryan budget. There's just all kinds of ways that small businesses will suffer. It's not in their self-interest to vote a republican ticket at this point. Said she, humbly. >> You've been speaking about --, and I'm interested in how you would bring together the individualism that we enshrine in this culture in our country with what you're calling us to, which is a higher standard. To go beyond self-interest and greed and individualism. And I'm not saying that individualism always represents greed. 

But is there a way, in a time of economic downturn when people really are hurting, when the middle class is facing not being able to afford higher education, our college graduates are having difficulty finding jobs, how do you persuade people to think in terms of the common good? >> Well, you know what we found, it makes me think, Jean, about what we saw on the bus. Every day on the bus we did four things. We went to works of sisters who worked at the margins of society to lift up their work. We went to congressional offices to either thank them or criticize them for their vote on the Ryan budget. We did press work, and then in the evening we held what we called friend raisers where we had people gather to spread the word. Come, be with us, share stories. I expected it was going to be the hardest to be with people at the economic margins of our society and that the friend raisers were going to be the uplifting, great, joyful time. I discovered the opposite. At the margins of our society people know they've got to cooperate. People know we're in this together. 

People know they can't do it alone. People know the only way forward is in solidarity with each other, real solidarity not just kind of some mindful flimflam thought but that they have to work together. And I also realize Catholic sisters, every place they go, we do at least three things. We create relationship, we create community, and we create beauty. And at the margins, people come together and work. The problem is the fear in the evening when we got together with middle class, upper middle class folks, the alienation, the fear, the anxiety, the dislocation, the fear that we're losing what little we had and the apprehension that it's going to be worse is keeping us from being connected to each other. >> Yeah. >> And the fact is, the very thing that we've got to do is reach out to each other, and that's going to be the way forward. >> And how do you change the scarcity mentality that you've just described and that I think we all suffer from to some extent into an abundance mentality? How does... Go ahead. 

>> Isn't that amazing in the richest nation on Earth we think  we're bankrupt? I mean, it's shocking. Maybe we need more Third World travel or something. I don't know. The real thing is that this idea of manipulation and control by fear, I think has gotten way out of hand. I think it started as a real tactic. There was serious concern with September 11, 2001. Let's be real about that. That was a shocking thing for our nation. I'll never forget where I was that day, and none of us will who lived through it. But that has become our modus operandi where you are encouraged to turn in your neighbor or at the airport if you see a suspicious package, turn it in. 

You take off your shoes, your jacket, your belt, and then you're body-scanned? I mean, I wear an underwire bra and that could be suspect? [LAUGHTER] Give me a break. And it's all about theater. Most of that's theater. It's not real. >> I take a minute to read these cards and then I look up and hear you talking about underwire bras. [LAUGHTER] What did I miss? [LAUGHTER] >> It was a good story. [LAUGHTER] It'll just be our secret. [LAUGHTER] >> You're having entirely too much fun. [LAUGHTER] >> I love Wisconsin. This is great. 

>> Obviously, you're speaking out of your commitment to gospel values. What about people who don't share those values? >> We share the Constitution. Okay, for me, the thing I love about Jesus and the gospel is one of the things, the most he talks about are people in poverty. The second most he talks about is fear not, fear not, fear not. I bring you tidings of great joy. Fear not, fear not, fear not, fear not. And a lot of us who hold ourselves out as Christian spend a lot of time terrified. I just think we ought to read the scripture. [LAUGHTER] I mean, really. Shouldn't we laugh? Shouldn't we laugh? Shouldn't we be together? Shouldn't we be? But the pieces where we all meet, where we all meet is the Constitution. 

We know the Preamble to the Constitution, or we should. We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. It's not going to be great. It's not going to be fabulous. We're going to keep at it. It's not perfect. We keep at it to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, also called the common good, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. We've got to invest for the future. >> Okay, here's a good one to end with. >> Oh, good. 

>> Speak to the reasons behind the Vatican sanctions aimed at Network. And I wonder if you've ever had any qualms about the consequences that have come from having been so overt about the sisters support for affordable care which brought the Vatican down on your organization, on so many communities of Catholic sisters in this country. >> Right. Well... [LAUGHTER] You know, have I had qualms? No. I spent two days afraid. That was enough. The fact is if we stay faithful to mission, it's obvious. It doesn't feel like courage. A lot of people told me we're courageous, we're so bold.. 

We may be bold but we're not courageous. Courage is when you think that, I don't know what courage is actually. But for us, it's all about mission. And historically, Catholic sisters are always about being with people at the margins of their society. And so we lift up folks at the margins. That's our mission. The bishops responsibility, their mission is to take care of the structure of the center. Part of our mission is to annoy the center so it doesn't get too pleased. [LAUGHTER] Part of their mission is to annoy us. [LAUGHTER] So we can put up a sign that says mission accomplished for both of us. 

[LAUGHTER] I mean, seriously. Seriously. [APPLAUSE] >> When I think about a woman in the White House, I know who comes to mind. [LAUGHTER] This really is the last question. You spoke briefly about your practice of contemplation and how it really sources your social and political action, and we have a question: please describe you meditation practice. >> Uff. Okay, all right, I will. You have to know that on the bus trip there were three long-form videographers along making films of various things. One was Bill Moyers and there were two other women. One of the women came to my house to watch me meditate. 

[LAUGHTER] 5:15 to 6:15 AM. Okay, you're welcome. It was a little odd. But, basically, what I do is a Christian zen practice. Those of you may know zen. One of the sadnesses in the western church is that we lost our contemplative practices. And so one of the things we're recovering is through the eastern churches is recovering practice, and the whole idea is zen is letting go. Just letting go and opening ourselves to the deeper truth. Being one with God. And being one with God is a gift. 

It's like being kissed by God every now and then, where you just know we're at one. But I have to tell you, I'm also discovering on these insights, these little gifts that are given, like Nuns on the Bus is a kiss from God. Who would have ever thought that this explosion would happen. It's an explosion of the spirit, in my view, and it's total gift. It's beyond any one of us. And so, for me, that's like meeting God. Some mornings, I have an apartment that faces east so I see dawn at sunrise, and it's like God kissing me every morning with the sun coming up. It's dawn of light. You have to treasure the darkness so that when light comes it's like, whoa, that's kind of nice. >> So the holy spirit is driving the bus? >> The holy spirit is totally in charge of the bus because it's beyond anybody else's control. 

And the fact is the explosion of other sisters in other states doing bus trips, the sisters tell me that they feel so lifted up and ennobled by it. There's some Sinsinawas here, Dominicans here. They introduced themselves to me. I'm so grateful that we're so connected. It's a gift. It's a gift. We just have to celebrate it. [APPLAUSE] Because of all this gift, at Network we say, well, none of this would have happened but for the Vatican sanction. So we think, whoa. And also that Paul Ryan said that his Catholic faith informed his budget. 

If he was still just saying it was on Ayn Rand, we wouldn't have gone on the road. [LAUGHTER] The fact is, so at work we say, hmm, should we send the Vatican a thank you note? [LAUGHTER] Or give them a gift membership? [LAUGHTER] What should we do? But it is gift. It's all gift. >> P.T. Barnum famously said there's no such thing as bad publicity. >> Well, there's that. Some I'd rather do without, but most of it's good. Most of it's good. >> I know I'm one with this audience in feeling really gifted by your presence with us today. >> Thank you. Thank you. 

>> And it's been utterly delightful. >> Oh, good. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]  >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, wait, wait. The thank you piece. We discovered on the bus, we spent an inordinate amount of time saying thank you for coming, thank you for this. And then they'd say, oh, no, thank you for coming. Oh, no, thank you. 

[LAUGHTER] But I realized that's what we've been talking about. It's community when the see the other as gift. What we have to do is both see our own giftedness and see the other as gift because then we are together. So be we the people, okay? We're in this together. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]