Wisconsin Public Television University Place  A Conversation With George Takei  June 15, 2012 UP728    cc >> ...but we call it 21. I know, that always throws me. >> It's still 20th Century Fox, though. >> 21st Century but it's in the 20s, 2012. >> But with Kirk and Spock, you're in the 22nd, right? >> 23rd. >> 23rd, sorry. >> It was placed three centuries ahead in 1966. >> Right. >> That was the 20th century, and we had it three centuries ahead because our utopian society was so fanciful that we had to place it that far off. But the amazing thing is that in only three decades, much of it became reality. 

>> That's true. And you have to wonder a little bit, don't you, as to how much of that change was brought about by the mass media. If you see a black person in a position of command or if you see a multi-racial crew. >> Or if you see people with a little device on their hip and they tear it off and flip it open and start talking. >> It's uncanny, isn't it? >> It was amazing at that time. >> Pretty soon we're going to have communicator badges. >> That's right. But the thing is, with so many people, they think that the cell phone was inspired by Star Trek. >> Sure. >> But, in fact, Gene Roddenberry, who had tremendous integrity, hired some futurists from the RAND Corporation, and he actually used the legitimate speculative technology of that time by these futurists. 

So we were just the middle man, the medium that conveyed the legitimate thinking of the futurists of that time. And so it was being developed at that time, and when it was developed, we got the credit for it. >> Well, that's very convenient, isn't it? >> It was very flattering. >> You go back a long way in Los Angeles. You're from Los Angeles originally, and I'm tempted to say Los Angeles in what we call the golden age of Hollywood, but it has a little different spin for you, and we'll get to that in just a moment here.  cc >> And there you have some of the music that Jacques Offenbach wrote for the Jules Verne production, "From the Earth to the Moon, Dance of the Snowflakes," and things like that, which did not sound very much like science fiction, but, indeed, in 1875 it very much was. And that was the National Philharmonic with Richard Bonynge conducting. Well, speaking of conductors and performers, George Takei is in our studio with me this morning, and welcome. Pleasure to have you here. >> Good to be here. 

>> And you'll be sort of, was the word narrating what you're going to be doing with the Milwaukee Symphony this weekend? >> Well, actually, in the first act there's only a brief narration but a lot of me just talking about Star Trek. The narration is the prologue from the TV episodes of "Star Trek, Space: The Final Frontier," that one. The second act is where we do Klaatu's final speech from the film, "The Day the Earth Stood Still." >> Sure, a 1950 classic. >> Exactly, and the music by Bernard Herrmann. So that's playing behind me as I recite, this alien this come to Earth and is immediately shot at and imprisoned. >> Michael Rennie. >> Michael Rennie, yes. And that was our reaction to anything alien, anything different coming into our society. So it's, again, a metaphor for a lot of other contemporary issues. >> Well, as one who grew up in Los Angeles and had that childhood interrupted by being relocated in one of those Japanese American internment camps, that must be a theme that is running current in your life. 

>> The word relocated, as you know, is a euphemism. >> Yes. >> I remember that morning when I was five years old. My parents got us up early, my younger brother and our baby sister, got us dressed. And my brother and I were in the living room and I was looking out the front window and I saw two soldiers come marching up our driveway with bayonets on their rifles. And they stomped up the front the porch and banged on the door. And my father answered it and the soldiers ordered us out of our own home. And I remember seeing my mother come out from the back, carrying my baby sister and carrying a huge duffel bag in the other arm and tears streaming down her cheek. I'll never forget that. When you see your mother crying like that, it's something that's seared into your memory. 

And then we were taken from there to a nearby racetrack. >> Santa Anita. >> Santa Anita. And taken to the horse stalls and told that we were to spend the next few months in the horse stalls because the camps have not been built yet. While they were being constructed we would stay there in that stinky horse stall. >> How did your parents explain to you what was going on? Did you have any warning? >> Well, my father told us that we were going for a long vacation, and it was a few months after we were living there in the horse stalls that he said we were going to a place called Arkansas. And for me, as a kid, vacation meant fun, and Arkansas sounded exotic. And so I was excited and looking forward to it. And I thought everyone went on vacations and long trains with armed soldiers at both ends of the car and with some people that were very glum. But I was excited. 

I was going to Arkansas for vacation. >> There is a terrible irony in the incarceration of your family in that not only were you solidly American, but actually you're named after King George VI of England, your father and you both Anglophiles. >> My father was an Anglophile. I was born in 1937, the year of the coronation of George VI. So, hence, I'm George. When my brother was born, he was round and fat and roley-poley, as fat as Henry VIII. So guess what his name is? We're named after English royalty. >> We'll be back more with George Takei and that after some music, more science fiction music, here on Wisconsin Public Radio. It's going to be, in this case, from 1955 and a film called "Things to Come." It's music by Arthur Bliss, which includes such things as the Building of the New World, Machines, Attack of the Moon Gun, and we even get to the epilogue, and then back with my guest today, George Takei.  >> That's wonderful that you play sci-fi based music while we talk about sci-fi. 

>> Yeah, there's enough to work with there. It's kind of surprising. >> Yeah, there's a host of music that was inspired by or inspired science fiction. >> Yeah, and some of the most imaginative comes from latter day composers. I was intrigued to discover fairly recently that the, I guess we would call it the main theme of Star Trek, the original series, is based on a song called "Beyond the Blue Horizon" which was a popular song about 1932. >> Yeah, I know that song. >> Jeanette MacDonald singing all those high, high notes. >> Oh, this is the first time I'm hearing that. Alexander Courage's. >> That's right. 

>> That was "Beyond the Blue Horizon." >> Yeah, it was inspired by Beyond the Blue Horizon. >> I had no idea. Well, see, it pays to come to Milwaukee and chat with you. >> We all learn a little something. >> Life is constant learning, life-long learning. >> Now, what's not generally known is that you had a considerable and impressive career as an actor well before 1966. [PHONE RINGING] And I think this is Spock calling to fill us in on that right now using some old-fashioned technology. I didn't even know studio phones would ring anymore. We're so used to them lighting up. [PHONE CONTINUES TO RING] But your credits include such things as doing some of the dubbing work for Rodan in 1956. 

>> That's correct. >> And so you're fluent in Japanese, not surprisingly. >> But I used no Japanese in Rodan. >> Did you not? >> We were translating the Japanese into English. >> Right. >> So that it could be released here. But there are some historic, iconic shows that I did before Star Trek, like Playhouse 90. >> Now, tell us something about Playhouse 90. That was live, was it not? >> That was live. We did full, 90-minute dramas written by some of the best playwrights of that time. 

People like Reginald Rose, Paddy Chayefsky. >> Sure. >> Rod Serling. >> Yes. >> And one of the directors, assistant director from the Playhouse 90 I did, became a director for the Twilight Zone, the Rod Serling series. And they cast me in a challenging two-character drama for Twilight Zone that I did with Neville Brand. >> Was that the Encounter. >> Encounter. >> Which was 1964. So it was late in the Twilight Zone run, and that was so controversial, I'm told, that you can't even see it in this country. 

>> Well, it was aired once and there was significant uproar from the Japanese American community. And so it was pulled and was never re-aired until it came out as a CD. And so I guess it was in the 2000s, 2002 or 2003, or 2004, that people saw it for the first time, and they were astounded. >> And the controversy was that here you were Nisei. >> Nisei. >> Nisei, Japanese American, and you had an encounter with, I gather, is a white American? >> Yes. Neville Brand. Actually, he's a Native American American. >> That has to be one of the rare times when you had Native American and Japanese American as the principals in a cast. >> Yes. 

To make a very complex story short, he's a veteran of a second world war, and he's home cleaning out his attic. I'm a young Japanese American gardener who comes to work on his yard, and he invites me up to share a beer with him. And the Twilight Zone bong thing happens, and we fantasize on the fantastical past that we imagine. Not reality, it's Twilight Zone. He imagines that he killed a Japanese soldier from behind and stole his samurai sword in the jungles of southeast Asia. And I imagine, fantasize, my father having directed planes to Pearl Harbor. Now, that is factually totally untrue. There is no record of treachery by Americans of Japanese ancestry. It's Twilight Zone. >> Right. 

>> But it was still close enough to the bore and our incarceration that the Japanese American community went into an uproar. This Japanese American community was too sensitive, and they insisted that there was no treachery, no sabotage, no acts of disloyalty by Japanese Americans, but we were incarcerated on that suspicion And so they demanded that it never be aired again. I was taken a little aback by that because this is Twilight Zone. It's not supposed to be believed. >> But I guess not everybody gets the subtle distinction there. >> Exactly that. And CBS, in deference to and respect for the sensibilities of the Japanese American community, withdrew that show. It was a great acting part for me. A wonderful opportunity for a young actor. A two-character drama and to deal with that kind of raw, red meat, as fantastical as it was. 

And so I was a little taken aback by that, and I was a member of that organization, the Japanese American Citizens League. It's the Asian American counterpart to the NAACP. I understood their sensibility. I understood their, I don't want to use the word ignorance, but not having been exposed to Twilight Zone. >> True. That's right. >> And many of them had never seen the show. They missed the show. And yet they were given the synopsis and they said oh, no, that must never be shown; we were never disloyal. And I understand that feeling because it was a painful experience for the adults, my parents' generation. 

They lost everything. My father said they took my business, they took our home, they took our freedom, but the one thing I'm not going to give them is my dignity; I'm not going to grovel before this government. And I respected the older generation's pain and their anguish over that experience, and so I kept my mouth shut. >> There are some nuances. I'm reminded a little bit of another big broadcast scandal, I'll call it, with War of the Worlds. People are tuned in, and they didn't know it was pretend. >> That's right. And so, yeah, that's a good parallel that you've drawn there. I should use that. [LAUGHTER] >> It's free. 

I give it to you freely. >> Thank you very much. You're very generous.  >> And you've been listening to some of the things to come. That's music by Sir Arthur Bliss from the 1955 film including the Attack on the Moon Gun. How's that for a good classical music blend with science fiction? I'm Norman Gilliland back with George Takei, and more from him and his early years. In fact, we'll even talk about Lieutenant Sulu on Star Trek right after this on Wisconsin Public Radio.  So that gives us about 60 seconds or a little less. And I believe my engineer is over there to give me the cue somewhere when we're back. Otherwise, I'll just do it by time. 

We're winging a lot of things today. It's kind of fun, I have to tell you. It's kind of like log rolling. It's fun until you fall off. [LAUGHTER] >> Well, you're keeping your balance well. >> Well, thank you. Thank you. >> Speaking of my father, my father's name was Norman too. >> Yes, I saw that somewhere, which must be fairly unusual for a Japanese American. >> Well, that was the name that he selected himself because his birth name was Takekuma Takei. 

But it was his American name by choice. >> Oh, sure. Back with George Takei, and we're talking about parents. And so your father, Norman Takei, was first generation American or second? >> He was first. He was born in Japan, but he was brought to San Francisco by my paternal grandfather when he was eight or nine. And so he was reared in San Francisco, educated in San Francisco, and his heart was American. My mother was born in, we say Sacramento, actually a small farming community near Sacramento called Florin. My maternal grandparents came from Japan, and they settled in Florin, in the Sacramento Delta. And my mother and all her siblings were born there. >> But you spent, once the war was over and you came back from the internment camp, you went back to the Los Angeles area? >> That's correct. 

Many people were embittered by, most Japanese Americans, before the war, were on the west coast, and it was west coast Japanese Americans that were incarcerated. Isn't that silly? Hawaii was the place that was bombed. Hawaii had the most Japanese Americans. I think almost half the population was Japanese American. They didn't intern people from Hawaii. The west coast, because we were more vulnerable. If they incarcerated the Japanese Americans of Hawaii, the economy would have collapsed. >> Well, yeah, they were too dependent upon them, sure. >> And we had farmland that people had their eyes on. So there was an economic reason as well. 

And so we were taken away and put into these barbed wire internment camps in some of the most god forsaken places in the country. Can you imagine the blistering hot desert of Arizona in the summertime? You complained about your Milwaukee summers, this is paradise compared to the desert of Arizona. We were sent to the sultry swamps of southeastern Arkansas, and there were two internment camps there. Others were up in the high plains. Cold, wind-swept, dust storm plagued areas like Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and there were two of the most desolate places in California. And everything was taken from us. And when we came back to Los Angeles, the hatred was intense. Jobs were difficult. Housing was well-nigh impossible. Our first home was on Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles. 

We had a two bedroom house before the war. And because we were so young, I remember the barbed wire fence and the sentry towers with the machine guns pointed at us. When I made the night runs to the latrine, search lights followed me, but they became normality. In fact, I thought it was kind of nice that they lit the way for me to pee. [LAUGHTER] So everybody else I knew in camp lived the same way. We lined up three times a day to eat in a noisy mess hall. We went to mass showers. And, a stinging irony for me now, we began the school day with the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. I could see the barbed wire fence and the sentry tower right outside my schoolhouse window as I recited the words, very innocently, with liberty and justice for all. But, when we returned, that's when we realized what internment meant I was eight years old by that time, and the stench of the Skid Row, urine everywhere, on the street, in the hallways, those scary people lined up, leaning against a wall, smelly, ugly, reeking with all sorts of smells. 

And my baby sister said, "Mama, let's go back home," meaning back behind barbed wires. >> It was better than Skid Row. >> It was normality for us. >> You, pretty early on, got into Hollywood related activities. You were involved, as we mentioned, with Rodan and making that English language version of the Japanese classic, but not because you're fluent in Japanese. You're fluent in Spanish too. But not too long after that, you were in Playhouse 90, which was one of the great TV shows, live TV shows. Do you think it was especially exciting doing live television? >> It was thrilling just to be cast in that. I was addicted to Playhouse 90. It was something that was, to me, far away. 

It was one of these great landmark shows. Great playwrights, Paddy Chayefsky, Reginald Rose, Rod Serling. Wonderful dramas and wonderful actors. Geraldine Page, Jack Palance in Requiem for a Heavyweight. >> That was a classic. That was Rod Serling. >> Rod Serling, yes. And I was plucked out from theater, a student production at UCLA, and plunked into my first paying gig. >> You didn't have to know any boxing, did you, in Requiem for a Heavyweight? >> No, mine was called Made in Japan. I played a Japanese soldier, but I get a suicide scene. 

>> That's dramatic. >> Another chewy hunk of red meat. >> You seem to pretty much to have had the niche there. There weren't many Japanese American actors who really rose to prominence in the profession. >> Well, there were not many Asian American actors. There were many that went out and sold their faces as extras. >> Sure. >> As waiters. >> I have a poem about that, by the way. I can't resist bringing it in at this time. 

>> An author should not resist like that. >> I wish you could read it, but you haven't seen it yet. So, it goes like this: Many actors at best will appear in a crowd with one mine and a spear But few carry the play Like the star George Takei. So, congrats on your Sulu career. [LAUGHTER] >> Well, how flattering. Thank you very much. There were many Asian faces, but they weren't actors who came up with ideas of their own, who had suggestions to make. >> Ongoing characters. >> And, so that, as you say, it gave me a niche, but, at the same time, I'm grateful that I had the kind of parents I had because Asian American parents of my parents' generation, not only did not encourage their children if they had talent, they actually discouraged them from going into the arts, because we were insecure. They wanted their children to be doctors, engineers, professors, all those good, distinguished, respectable, and upper middle class areas. 

And their children going into music, or writing, or acting, in the arts? God forbid. They're going to starve. I'm going to support them for the rest of their lives. >> A lot of them did, didn't they? >> I was a theater student. My minor was Latin American studies. My father said I have a useless minor and a hopeless major, I'm going to be supporting you for the rest of your life. Well, I showed him. >> Well a bad major led to a great lieutenant. Let's put it that way. [LAUGHTER] And how did 1966 come about? How did you become Lieutenant Sulu? >> Well, I had my list of credits by that time. 

My very first gig was in '57, and so I was a working actor. And one day I was called in for an interview with this man named Gene Roddenberry, whom I didn't know from Adam. I walked in and he, usually when they're interviewing actors for a series they have a whole battery of people: the network people, the studio people, and a creative team. >> Just enough to be really intimidating. >> And they're all sober-faced, and they're glaring at you. And some will do the good cop/bad cop. Some will smile occasionally or chuckle when you say something witty. But when I went in for the interview with Gene Roddenberry, he was the only one. So that, in itself, was unusual. And then he, rather than having a desk between us, he indicated the sofa, kind of an L-shaped sofa. 

And we sat there and I remember it as a very unusual interview. We talked about current events, our thoughts on it, movies we'd seen, books that particularly impressed us, and then he explained the... >> The role. >> The idea, the show itself, and then my role. And he really tantalized me. I really wanted to get cast, but then he thanked me for coming in and I was out. And I thought, was that it? Maybe he didn't want me, but he was just being polite by making social chitchat. He's a nice man, and I'd loved to have done this series. I reported that to my agent, and when I didn't hear for about two weeks and I kept calling my agent during those two weeks, have we heard from the yet, have we heard, and he said no, we haven't. And I thought well, I guess that's it. 

But then my agent called one morning and said I was cast. I was blown away by that. >> Without an audition, you mean? I mean, without reading any lines or anything? >> Without reading. Apparently, he did his homework. He'd seen my work. And he wanted to, I found out that the other actors were similarly interviewed. He wanted to know what made us tick, what our interests were, what we thought of current events because it was a show that addressed issues of our time. >> Sure, very much so. >> Very much. And so I think his casting style was very unique, and that's what helped build that chemistry that apparently we had, that they told us we had. 

>> But it still took Sulu how long to get promoted from Lieutenant? [LAUGHTER] It wasn't until about 1991 or something like that in one of the movies, right? >> I had to lobby hard. I lobbied all through while we were on the TV series. I lobbied for more for Sulu to do, beyond "Aye aye, sir, warp three, steady as she goes." >> And so, did you get it? How much input did you actually have in the development? >> I gave them a lot of input. >> But not much came out. >> Well, when you have seven regular performers, three who are the principals, it's pretty difficult. You give them all the ideas, but they're all doing the same thing. Even Bill and Leonard were kind of elbowing each other. >> More lines, more stuff. >> Time in the spotlight. And so with the TV series it was a little difficult. 

But when we heard that we were going to be a feature film, I thought how wonderful. But that was that. But then we heard that there was a sequel going to be made. They weren't intending on making a sequel, but, because the first film did so well, they decided to do a sequel. And that's when I thought, well, I'll do a little lobbying. And I invited the producer and the director to have lunch at a very fine Little Tokyo restaurant overlooking a Japanese garden and lobbied them. Starfleet is supposed to be a meritocracy, and if it's a meritocracy, there should be advances. >> Yes. >> And so they started giving us new titles. But I was still at the same console, doing the exact same thing I was doing as a lieutenant in the TV series and in the first movie. 

>> Did you get a better uniform anyway? >> We didn't get a better uniform because in the first film, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, they had us in a one-piece spandex outfit with even the shoes attached. And it zipped up the back and went under the armpit and so forth. Grown men and women, organic creatures, animals who hydrate and need to dehydrate. >> On a long shoot. >> Couldn't go to the dehydration chamber without our dressers following us, and we had to wiggle out of this spandex uniform to answer Mother Nature's call. And so when they said they were going to do a sequel, we all went on a strike. We said we will not come back unless we get a fly in our costume! [LAUGHTER] And, thus, the uniform that you see in II, III, IV, and VI. >> We'll be back with George Takei in just a moment here on Wisconsin Public Radio.  >> I didn't know we could get this risque. >> We'll find out, you know, what gets chopped. 

>> I used euphemisms. Dehydration chamber. Doesn't that sound good? >> I like that. >> Scientific. Very Star Trek. >> Yeah, I think that might catch on in the jargon. >> Well, I'm hydrating now. >> Well, fortunately, you're better set in more ways than one. >> Believe me, when you reach a certain point in life, the need for a dehydration chamber happens very frequently. [LAUGHTER] >> I've heard that. 

>> Ah, some nodding. [LAUGHTER] You're young, you still identify? >> And we'll be back in just few seconds here, I think, with our radio audience. Don't let me hold you. I know you have rehearsal to go to, but I don't want you to go away either. So I mention that reluctantly. And we're just about back. Now we're back with our radio audience.  Back with George Takei, and you're listening to us on Wisconsin Public Radio.  George Takei is in Milwaukee, which is where we're broadcasting from this morning. And he will be the narrator with the Milwaukee Symphony for three concerts this weekend. 

Friday night and Saturday night at 8:00, and Sunday afternoon at 2:30. It's a sci-fi spectacular with music from, let's see, well, could be Star Trek even in there. >> Star Trek, Star Wars, ET. >> The Day the Earth Stood Still. >> The whole panorama. >> I've heard that when the first Star Trek movie came out, it was right about the time, was it not, that Star Wars came out, and there was some kind of, I've heard this, there was some kind of reconfiguring that said, okay, I think we better upgrade a little bit. >> Star Wars came out before we became a series of movies. Our ratings were very low when we were on television. We were near the cellar all three seasons. >> That's hard to believe, isn't it? >> It's hard to believe, but I guess we were before our time. 

And so they had the numbers to justify cancellation, but it was after we were canceled and we went into syndication that the ratings soared. And so we had many announcements of when we would be coming back as a television series again. >> Oh, really? >> I remember February of 1974 was one date that we were, it was the first date we were given. And I remember that because we were so excited about it. But as we got near February, then they started kind of hedging and that kept getting pushed back. And then the next date was '75, and then '76. And then Star Wars hit, and that's when the green head of greed. >> Oh, is that what it was? >> Arose at the executive offices at Paramount, and they decided to do us as a feature film. That's what gave birth to our first film, Star Trek: The Motion Picture. So we actually followed in the footsteps of Star Wars. 

We are a result of Star Wars' success. >> You had, I'm told, you have a popular, favorite episode of Star Trek, the series. Is that the one with the bare chest? >> The one with the sword, yes. [LAUGHTER] I get unleashed from that damn console at long-last. And to, yes, rip my shirt off and grab my fencing foil and terrorize the ship. >> The idea being that there was some kind of virus that got into the ship that made everybody lose their... >> Inhibitions. >> Inhibitions, yes. Now, if you had crafted a role for Sulu, if you had been able to write and direct one of those episodes, what kind of episode would it have been? >> Well, Sulu would have been much more rounded and dimensioned. He would have parents, and those were ideas that I suggested. 

>> Took you a while just to even get a first name, didn't it? >> First name, yes. I think that didn't happen until the movies. Throughout the three seasons I was just Mr. Sulu. But I would give him parents. I would give him a love interest, if not already married. Maybe having children. To make him more fully a human. But Kirk, too, went for a long time without a family as well. >> That's true. So you did develop, eventually, a back story for Sulu? >> Mm-hmm. 

I did. >> And what kind of story, what kind of background did he have? >> Well, he was born in San Francisco, which was my father's hometown, and you make that discovery in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. He has a scene where he says San Francisco, I was born there. And that was also the headquarters of Starfleet Command. He was San Franciscan. And this was an idea, I have to give proper credit to Harve Bennett. He was the producer of Star Trek IV, and he came up with the idea of having an ancestor of mine. We go back in time to the 20th century, and my meeting a young Asian kid, a young, I think he was seven or eight, boy on the streets of San Francisco and discovered that he's his great- great-great-grandfather to be. It was a charming scene. But, unfortunately, they cast a young boy who tested wonderfully in a cool, calm, collected office building where they videotaped a scene with him. 

He was absolutely charming, and Leonard, who was directing that film, cast him in it, and he didn't get a backup young boy. And the boy that he had cast froze up on location on the streets of San Francisco with these big lights being trundled about and being put into wardrobe and makeup patting his face, and he just froze. >> Does that happen often? >> Well, when you have a child and when you have a rank amateur and you put them in an absolutely terrifying situation, it happens. And we lost that scene. We spent a whole half a day trying to cajole that kid into doing. In fact, Leonard, who was dressed as Mr. Spock in that horsehair gown, was hunkering down and said, you like Uncle Sulu, don't you? You think he's funny, don't you? >> I wish I had film of that. >> We have still shots of that, but, alas, we didn't have the camera going. >> We're hearing a little bit of The Day the Earth Stood Still underneath our conversation, and it makes me wonder. Were you a reader at all of science fiction, other than Rodan that you worked on, were you an appreciator or a connoisseur of science fiction films growing up? >> To be honest, I was not. I had read Ray Bradbury, but I didn't fancy myself as a sci-fi fan. 

And it wasn't until I got cast in Star Trek and I started meeting some of our writers, like Harlan Ellison who's a dear friend, and he's an incredible ideas guy and a very strongly, fiercely opinionated guy. >> That can be good. >> That was good but some people found it very off-putting because he is so intense. But other much more mild-mannered people, like Ted Sturgeon or Norm Spinrad, who are so imaginative and have such penetrating thoughts on our contemporary society that I started to say there's something to this thing called science fiction, and I started reading more. >> Did you ever do any other science fiction roles other than Sulu? >> Yes. I did Peter David, who was a wonderful science fiction writer and he's written many Star Trek novels, did a television series in Canada aimed at preteens. And I played an alien creature who was an irregular regular on that series. >> Recognizable at least? >> No, no, no. I was totally unrecognizable. >> Oh, really? >> Save for my voice. 

It was my voice but I was completely covered in rubber. >> Well, you have the advantage of a very distinctive voice, so at least you'd be recognized in any event, even in animation. You do some animation, don't you? >> I do. And that's why I was cast in, what was the character's name? I can't remember. I played him regularly, but it was like in 1980 or there about, so I can't remember the character. >> And now some of these things, as we've said, which were fiction 50-60 years ago is reality, and that would include something like the Internet, which I understand you are almost omnipresent on the Internet in one form or another. >> It is an amazing medium for communication. We've been developing a musical bound for Broadway on the internment of Japanese Americans. It's a factual story, but fictional. The events are all factual. 

We take a fictional family and put this family in the Wyoming camp, Heart Mountain. And it is a story of the loss and the heartbreak but also of heroism and tremendous determination to prevail. So it's, ultimately, an uplifting story, but because of the nature of that story we thought we need to, first of all, have people understand that dark chapter of American history and to get the word out on our musical Allegiance. And so I thought Facebook would be a wonderful way to get that going. There are so many people that tell me I had no idea something like the internment happened in the United States. Innocent citizens with no charges and no trial being imprisoned for no good reason, other than we looked like the people that bombed Pearl Harbor. And so I did that as a preliminary word out about Allegiance, and I thought I'd sprinkle it with a little humor and a few kitties. It grew and grew and grew to the point where we were nearing one million. And then we went past a million, and now we're over two million. It's just amazing. 

And so we're trying to use it educationally but using fun and photos to get the people checking up on us daily. >> And I suppose, unlike back in the days of Star Trek, you get immediate response, interaction, with the users. >> It's amazing. It is really a remarkable system which is now undergoing some transition. As we all know, Facebook is in need of raising some revenue. >> They didn't do so well with their stock offering, did they? >> They've got investors. They have people that invested in it, and they want to start making money. And so it seems to be going through some evolution. >> Sure. >> And it's puzzling us because we've been growing consistently, and suddenly our growth is not only plateauing out, but some people are not getting what we post. 

>> Oh, really? Are you maxing out the system, or what? >> No. They have approached us and said if you want to reach more people, we might enhance it by paying some revenue. >> Uh-huh. >> I think they're testing out a lot of ideas. >> Sure. >> We're not going to do that because we want it explained. Why were we growing like this and suddenly you're stepping in and doing something to control that growth unnaturally? >> That's probably true of so many media innovations. If you go back to the printing press, it's suddenly, oh, well, why should we restrict what we print because as soon as you have the first thing printed then people have all kinds of ideas as to how that medium should be used. Certainly true of broadcasting too. >> We are entering into a brave new world, and that's what's exciting. 

To be part of that, to be getting the impact of that "evolution," and having a role to play in giving some shape and form. It's reasonable. I think they need to make money. They most certainly, Zuckerberg has a lot of money already. >> Well, in the next couple of minutes, do you have any notions of doing more film? >> Well, we hope that Allegiance is such a success that we get to productions in London, Toronto, Tokyo, and, ultimately, maybe a movie. I have a lot of ideas in mind. As I said, I wrote an autobiography. >> That's been out for a while, right? >> It came out in 1994, and I've lived a lot of material since then. >> I hope you're taking careful notes. >> Up here in my mind. 

And so I'm toying with the idea of another autobiography. And this Internet success that I've been blessed with, that might be a subject for a little humorous tome. >> So, you wouldn't be in a position to go back and talk one-on-one to a producer and pitch an idea or pitch yourself for a character? Those days are behind you? >> Oh, no, no, no. I'm certainly game for that. When Allegiance has proven itself on Broadway, we may engage in that kind of picture with Hollywood studio heads or development heads and see if we can nudge Allegiance along into a movie version. >> Do you have, other than the Star Trek movies, do you have a favorite film or two that inspired you in your formative years in terms of the acting or the production? >> I did a play in New York called The Year of the Dragon, written by a Chinese American, Frank Chin, about a family, a Chinese American family, in Chinatown. And Rodgers and Hammerstein depict it as an exotic, charming, fun place. Actually, it's a ghetto. And there's a lot of poverty and a lot of cultural struggle, cultural wrestling going on in families. It was a drama that I could bring some of my own personal life experiences to. 

And then we taped it for television on the Theater in America Series for PBS, no NPR, as a matter of fact. >> Good for you. >> And I feel that that's been one of the soul fulfilling projects that I've done. But we'll see how Allegiance goes because I've been calling that my legacy project. >> Well, we'll hope to have you maybe do some radio, even some radio drama, one of these days. That would be fun. >> Yeah, I grew up on radio. Green Hornet, Cisco Kid. And there's something wonderful about creating a whole world, a whole civilization, and maybe a whole fascinating person just with your voice, with sound. It's a whole other medium. 

>> Well, thanks for joining us on this medium today, George Takei. And we've had a little bit of science fiction oriented music in the background there as a fact, and we'll look forward to your performances this weekend. Thanks again. >> Thank you very much. I look forward to meeting all my Milwaukee fans here during the sci-fi concerts.