University Place History Sandwiched In  Stuart Stotts Marching Down the Field  August 16, 2011 UP612    cc >> Beth Lemke: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Wisconsin Historical Museum. We're very pleased to present as part of our History Sandwiched In series, with funding and support from the Dane County Cultural Affairs Commission, Stuart Stotts, who's going to blend in the story of the Curly Lambeau and Lucius Fairchild for us today. If you could please give me a warm welcome to Stuart, I'd greatly appreciate it. [APPLAUSE]  >> Stuart Stotts: Thank you all so much for coming here today. I am going to be blending Lucius Fairchild and Curly Lambeau in the metaphor of marching down the field, whether it's the battlefield or the football field was as close as I could get to finding some commonality between the two. Clearly, both men worked to advance the interests of our state over the course of their career and their lives. So we're going to do Lucius first, just simply thinking chronologically, and then we'll talk a little bit about Curly. We'll definitely have an opportunity for questions so you can be thinking about those. And I, of course, am here because I have these two books that I wrote, "Badger Biographies," and I will be reading little bits and pieces of them just to kind of help the story go along. So Lucius Fairchild. 

When I was first asked to write this book, I did not know who he was. He's not someone who's well-known in our state unless you are from up north where Osseo-Fairchild is, a small community or Fairchild Street right out here. And yet he's someone, I think, who exemplifies really public service, sort of the mixed bag that it is, the combination of ambition that's required to achieve public service, and yet the concern for the public and the greater good that I believe he also shared and promoted in his time. So we'll jump into it here, and there we have a little picture of the book. We'll come back to this painting in a moment. This is perhaps one of the reasons that Lucius Fairchild is so famous. Let me go back to this. So Lucius was born in 1831, moved to Madison, born in Ohio, moved to Madison. His father was kind of a guy who always had another idea for a business and usually wasn't successful. [LAUGHTER] Was bankrupt several times and kept this idea and that idea, actually went to debtors prison at one point. 

So he wasn't very successful. And as Lucius got older, he actually bailed him out a few times. Unfortunately, this is not my message, but for the kids here today, Lucius was not a very good student. In fact, he left school at, I don't even know, maybe seventh or eighth grade and never went back. Do not take this as an example. He worked for a while. He was a county clerk here in Madison, and yet he kind of had this desire for adventure which is common for people in that age. And he had this idea that out west things might be better. And so when gold was discovered out west, Lucius decided he was going to head out. And let me just read you a little bit about this. 

First of all, he's leaving Madison and he looks back and, in the book, and I unfortunately don't have it here, there's a picture of how small Madison was at the time, 1852, I think, or 1850, right in there. And he writes back and says never did a boy feel worse than I did when I reached the college hill and turned around to take a last long look on the little village that held all that I held dear on Earth. I felt, when I out of sight, that I was alone in the world and endeavored to nerve myself in the task and be a man. Isn't that like classic sort of going out west, I will nerve myself to the task. So he's going out because he wanted to make money. He wanted to make money, and of course the gold rush was a way to do that. So he goes out west and he got a little bit of money with some friends and they join a wagon train. And I'd like to read you a short passage about what it was like on a wagon train. We are waked at half past three in the morning to untie the cattle to feed, then make a fire, and cook breakfast as soon as possible. We have fried meat, coffee, and bread. 

As soon as that's over, the order is given to bring up the cattle who, by this time, have filled themselves and laid down, yoke up and start out each one leading in his turn and then going to the last end of the train and work up to the head. Travel until noon and eat lunch. Make a dinner of cold pancakes cooked the night before-- Sounds delicious. Then smoke and start and go on till 4:00. Then camp whether we are near water or not. By the time we get supper out of the way and cooking done for the next day, it's time to go herd the cattle, let me eat until they lay down or tie them in the ring. By this time, we are tired enough to go directly to bed so we don't have much time to mend clothes or loaf about reading. That's what it was like in the wagon trains. Just day after day after day moving west. So he gets to California. 

Now, this is not Lucius but it is a gold miner. And you've probably seen images of this. The guy with the pan in the stream sorting through trying to find gold. And Lucius tried that for a while. Made a little bit of money but the truth is far more gold miners came back broke or empty-handed than those who actually made a lot of money. And Lucius wasn't really having any luck. You'd buy a claim, you'd work it a while, you'd sell it to somebody else. So Lucius saw that actually the way to make money was not to pan gold but to sell things to those who were panning gold. He became a middle man and he sold beef mostly and made a tremendous amount of money. So not everybody who got rich in the gold rush was a miner. 

Made a lot of money and you can sort of see here, this is just an image of these are people, and they're out there working but they had needs and there was a tremendous inflation. A pair of boots might cost $200 out there. Huge amount of money. And so Lucius made a pile and he came back. He came back around South America and with basically this big chunk of money in his hand, came back to Madison. Well, he tried to sort of figure out what to do but pretty soon after that what began was the Civil War. The Civil War. And Lucius had joined kind of the militia here, and so when it became time to fight in the Civil War he joined up and he began to rise through the ranks. Began to start out as a private and then became a colonel and all the way up. But what was interesting is that at one point they wanted him to have a higher rank and he turned it down. 

He said he didn't think he was ready. And this is something you see in Lucius all his life. Kind of ambition but not the ambition to say I want that. The ambition to say I don't really deserve that. Kind of like that. And that is how he rose, not only through the military but also in politics. Now, Lucius was actually quite a competent leader compared to some of the people that you read about at that time. So they join up, they go out east and basically they sit around out there for about a year waiting, training, marching, cleaning their guns, waiting for there to be a battle. And finally they actually get to be in a battle, and Lucius was a great commander at that point. So they're fighting Stonewall Jackson trying to trap him, and this is a description of what this battle was like. 

Lucius was lying ill at the time. He heard the shooting, leaped up and rushed into battle. His men cheered as he reached the front lines. They fought fiercely. Lucius' horse was shot out from under him, but his men held their ground amid many casualties. Civil War battles were often confusing. Amid the smoke and bullets it was hard to know what was happening. Communication depended on messengers and reports. At one point in this battle, Lucius ran to find Colonel Robinson who commanded the 7th Wisconsin regiment. Lucius said, for God's sake, colonel, deliver your fire up to the left. 

We are all cut to pieces and the enemy are advancing on us. Robinson gave the order. A 7th Wisconsin soldier remembered it like this: Company after company of Wisconsin soldiers came along the foot of the slope and poured in their rifle fire right into the enemy's lines and they broke and fell back. Who does not remember the cheer we gave. Another soldier recalled: I could distinctly see Lieutenant Colonel Fairchild of the 2nd Wisconsin working among and cheering up his men. Men who were shot were streaming back from along the whole line. Our regiment was suffering more than it had been. In the history of war, it is doubtful whether there was ever more stubborn courage than was display by the 2nd and the 7th Wisconsin on this field of battle. Lieutenant Colonel Fairchild was under the hottest fire but escaped unhurt. Lucius was lucky because many others died that day. 

At the end of the battle, Lucius gathered his men and said where is the regiment? Have they scattered? Someone replied, Colonel, this is all that's left of the 2nd, the rest lay on the field. Huge casualties, huge people lost in these battles, huge numbers so that regiments would have to be combined to make a full regiment. So he's fighting now in the Civil War. And there are a couple other engagements, and again, if you've ever read Civil War stuff, and I haven't read a lot, amazing the destruction and death that took place in these battles. The hand-to-hand fighting and the numbers of people hurt and killed. For example, here they're talking about one battle and it says when General Gibbon gave the order the rifles and canons began to fire. The blasts tore great bloody gaps in the rebel lines and piled the dead and mangled in rows like hay raked in a hayfield. The bullets came over our heads like a shower of hail stones. It was a terrible slaughter. By the end of this battle, out of the 150 who had survived Brawner's Farm, only 15 were still present for duty. 

10% of the people who had been in that first battle that I wrote about were now here at this one. And as a result, Lucius developed a hatred for the Confederates and the South. He said, he told his sister, I hope never to be ordered to take a prisoner. I'd rather a dead rebel than a live one, and if I ever have the chance, I'll have nothing but dead ones. Very strong sentiments. He'd seen his men cut down by the Confederates and replied internally with this hatred, really. Now this will change so there is some redemption in this. And yet that's where he was. All right, so there are some battles, and then Lucius and his men are marching to the Battle of Gettysburg. Now, Gettysburg, of course, is famous for the Gettysburg Address delivered by Abraham Lincoln. 

Many would say it was kind of the turn of the tide. It became clear that the North was going to win even though so many died. So they're marching towards Gettysburg and they march over a rise at Willoughby Run, which is one of the spots on the battlefield, and it says we're immediately met with volley after volley of Confederate rifle fire. Almost a third of his 273 men were killed in those initial volleys. So right away close to a hundred men killed just by rifle fire. Lucius was hit by a musket ball which shattered his left arm above the elbow. Left arm. Lucius told his men not to take him away. He wanted to stay to lead the fight. Confederate soldiers captured him but they soon left him behind after they retreated. 

Union soldiers later found him. They took Lucius into the town of Gettysburg where he stayed at a private home. The 2nd Wisconsin surgeon had to amputate Lucius' arm. When Lucius awoke from the operation he looked down and said thank God I still have one arm left. As the battle continued, Lucius watched from the porch of the house. He shouted encouragement to the soldiers as they ran by and he wished he could return to the fight. For three days the battle raged on. At times the smoke from the gun powder was so dense that it was difficult to see where the enemy was. It was as if a dense fog lay over the field. Bullets flew so thickly through the air that tree trunks were blown to pieces. 

The moans of the wounded and dying men mixed with rifle volleys and canon fire. Soldiers fought close at hand with swords, bayonets and knives. After the battle was over, those who had survived told about the horrors they had seen. Now, what I find interesting about this, many things, but one is that Lucius, they've cut off his arm, the battle goes on for three days, and he's sitting on the porch of a house watching the battle unfold. And people are running by and he's essentially saying. "Go get them," right? It's very different than this image of this battle with very clear battle lines and one on the other side. Lucius is sitting there kind of in the heart of the battle at a private home. How bizarre is that? At the end, of course, at the end of this battle there were more than 45,000 casualties and more than 8,000 men dead. And yet as it was something of a turning point. All right, well this is a painting. 

You can just sort of see the smoke. There's another picture that I saw that shows a tree trunk riddled with bullets. The bullets were so thick that the tree was just sort of punctured. And, of course, dead men lying on the fields everywhere. Everywhere. Well, Lucius came back to Madison. He eventually married and was elected governor for three terms. It was three two-year terms. He had a particular interest in orphans and veterans affairs, an interest in transportation, an interest in education. And he was, like I say, for three terms he was there, and at the end of his third term the Peshtigo fire broke out. 

You may remember it was right about the same, just after the Chicago fire had broken out. So he went down to Chicago and he heard that this had happened and he raced back to Wisconsin and worked day and night to raise money and make sure that people had houses and were taken care of. Even though his term was just ending. In fact, he didn't pay enough attention to helping his successor to get elected. He was so involved with caring for the people who had lost their homes in the Peshtigo fire. And again, here you see another image of people. Just this incredible fire that just ravaged the north. To me it's sort of a testament of what it was like, how much he cared about people, that that was really his thing. Well, when he left being the governor. You can see here in this picture he has one arm. 

And when he was elected governor they used this one-armedness as a big campaign slogan. Vote for the man with the bloody sleeve, kind of thing. They weren't shy about playing on his military experience. And so he became well-known for that. He was well-liked, really, but when he left he was kind of tired, is how I read it, and he wanted to go overseas. And so he went overseas for more than 10 years. He was in Spain. He was in England, in Liverpool, kind of being a consult, a consulate kind of person. Building the United States' interests, and there he is with one of his daughters in England. He returned, eventually, thinking he might continue on in politics but he didn't. 

That didn't work out for him. He became the head of the GAR, the Grand Army of the Republic. And this is where we see evidence of Lucius' change because if you remember that thing I read to you earlier about how I hope I never meet a southerner because I never want to take a prisoner and the only good southerner is a dead one, essentially. Later on there was a big earthquake in the south and his role for the GAR he went down there and this is what he said. When he talked to the Confederate veterans in Charleston he said I have no bitter animosities and I know today if I should meet the soldier whose aim made this armless sleeve, I would grasp his hand by the only hand he left me and have no hard feelings toward him. Quite a change, right? Quite a change. And we remember him now perhaps as John Singer Sargent, very famous portrait. This portrait is in the Historical Society down at the end down there. I don't know how much it's worth, but you can go in and take a look at it. It's a great portrait. 

He talks about when he was sitting for it, he said this great thing about it. He said so Mr. Sargent has been here all morning but certain windows had to be changed so that a proper light could be shed on the manly form and amiable face of your husband. He told me he will want some 10 days. He's writing to his wife. And then he says he looked at the finished portrait and reported that it looked like a lot of badges running off with a bald headed man. [LAUGHTER] So that was his take on this very famous portrait. And he's sort of right about it, but anyway you can't argue with John Singer Sargent. He died. He's buried over here in Forest Hill cemetery over off of Speedway, isn't that what it is? So you can find his gravestone there. And for us here today, just so we know, Lucius Fairchild was a huge supporter of the Wisconsin Historical Society. 

He helped to get things started and believed very strongly in the mission of the Historical Society. So Lucius was great that way. All right. So there's a little bit, a very sort of quick 20-minute Lucius Fairchild life. Before we go on to Curly, are there any questions that you have that I may or may not be able to answer? Yes. >> You said when Lucius awoke from the operation, that means they were able to give opiates and ether, and they didn't have to saw off limbs in the battlefield without any anesthetic. Do I understand that correctly? They were able to put him under for the amputation? >> That makes sense to me. It's possible that he just passed out, too, or that they gave him a whole lot of alcohol. So I don't know the answer to your question, but it does clearly say that when he awoke from the operation. So some way or another he lost consciousness. 

Yes. >> You said that he was head of the Grand Army of the Republic, is the equivalent of that today the Secretary of the Army? >> The veterans. My understanding maybe is that it sort of became the big impetus for the Veterans Administration. That's my understanding. Yes. >> We heard previously that Madison was sharply divided about the Civil War, do we conclude that Fairchild supported the war and Lincoln or was he a reluctant warrior? >> He supported it from the beginning. He had some reservations later on about giving black people the vote, for example. So that was kind of a political football being tossed back and forth. But my understanding is right from the beginning he was there. And they had then the draft but people would be conscripted for a very short amount of time. 

Three months, six months, that kind of thing. So he was disgusted because he recruited all these people, they're out there on the east coast marching around, and after three months everybody wants to go home. So he did come back several times to play a role in recruiting people and spoke quite vehemently about the importance of the cause. Yeah, great. Any other questions before we change focus to Curly Lambeau? If you have other questions, we can come to those in a minute too. Give me just a moment, I need to switch my PowerPoint because there are two separate PowerPoints. So just close your eyes and pretend there's nothing happening here. [LAUGHTER] I will bring up the other one. There we go, that was pretty painless. All right, Curly Lambeau. 

Curly Lambeau. Now, Curly Lambeau is the reason we have the Green Bay Packers. He's the reason that the Green Bay Packers are still in Wisconsin, and I can't say enough about what he did to make that happen. That doesn't necessarily mean that Curly Lambeau was a great guy. I once asked a sports writer who knew both Vince Lombardi and Curly Lambeau. He was a sports writer, I'm forgetting his name at the moment, up in Green Bay for years. And I said if you had a choice to go fishing for the weekend with Curly Lambeau or Vince Lombardi, which would you choose? He said neither. [LAUGHTER] So anyway, Curly Lambeau, sort of a mixed bag personally, and yet he's clearly somebody really important to our state. So there's a copy of the book. Born in Green Bay to immigrant parents, and he was a sports guy right from the beginning. 

His father was in construction and he loved football. And, in fact, when he was very young, what you have to understand about Curly Lambeau is that football was really not much of a sport at the time. There was no NFL. Games were completely pick-up games. The rules changed from place to place. Curly played football when he was a child with a salt sack filled with gravel. That was their football. And they'd throw it back and forth and they'd run with it. But also in those days, football was pretty much just a running game. You might have one or two passes per game, maybe. 

But really it was just the biggest guys facing off against the other biggest guys, and you hand the ball to your strongest guy and you pushed each other. And that's pretty much what football was. The rules changed over time. And you can see here this is how footballs changed over time. So you can just see the difference here. This one versus this one. One of the things about a ball like that, it's harder to throw it a long way. You can't get that long spiral 60 yards down the field with a ball like that. So as time went by, the ball became more and more adapted to throwing because Curly loved to pass. That was his thing. 

That's why he became successful. Now, he was an athlete when he was in high school. He was a high jumper and a discus thrower. He was just a great athlete and everybody knew it. And he had a girlfriend named Marguerite who he eventually married. And you can see Curly is a good looking guy. And Curly was this guy, again by all accounts, a very gregarious fellow, well-met kind of thing. Walk into the room, he loved to reach into his pocket later on when he was more successful pull out a roll of bills buy everybody a drink kind of thing. One of those kind of guys. One of those guys who sort of ran the room. 

So Curly went, he was very good at football and he went to Notre Dame. And what's interesting to me about this is here you see he is standing next to, Curly Lambeau is right there, see him there, and the person next to him was named Frank Gipp which might mean something to some of you. Win one for the... >> Gipper. >> Gipper, that's right. There he is. And, of course, on the far left you have... >> Knute Rockne. >> Knute Rockne. Perhaps the greatest coach of all time, arguably. 

Someone who radically transformed football and won, just won all the time. But this was early, he wasn't famous then. Curly got in on the ground floor there. He was just there for a year. He did okay. He wasn't a big star, but he did fine there playing. But he only went there for one year, and then he became back home to work construction because he got sick and missed the season. So he came back and was working construction. Here you see a good looking fellow here. But he played pick-up. 

And this is the Green Bay Whales. And this is how people would play. They'd have a little pick-up team and they'd call up Marinette and say, well call, I suppose maybe go there, but they'd say do you want to play next Saturday at 2:00? And whoever you could get to go there and that's pretty much what football was. Well, this is maybe like 1917, 1918, right around in there. Curly is about 20 years old, maybe. And then there's this thing that happens. They're going to start the American Football League. And he's working construction and then he's working for the Indian packing company, and he meets this guy, George Calhoun, sports writer. And if it that guy doesn't look like the classic sports writer, I don't know who is. Chomping on the cigar. 

They have this conversation and they decide to see if the packing company will sponsor this team in what was then called the American Football League. And so they do this. And Curly marries Marguerite and spends their honeymoon driving around setting up games with other teams in the region. It's very romantic. And so then you get this first team. And Curly's playing on it. He's playing on it. And they're pretty successful, but then the root of all the problems here between us and the Chicago Bears where, okay it was supposed to be you couldn't hire college players to play. But everybody did it. I'm not saying it was okay. 

I'm just saying everybody did it. But the Bears and the Packers were going to be having a game and George Halas told on the Packers and got them kicked out of the league. Kicked out of the league. And Curly had to then go back, hat and hand and with a whole lot more money, and buy his way back in to the league. So ever since then things have not been good. But anyway, in their first official season, 1919, they won 10 games, including by such scores as 87 to nothing and 76 to 6. And the total point spread over the season was 565 to 12. [LAUGHTER] Curly liked to pass a football and here's partly why. In one of the early games against Ishpeming, Michigan, he learned he had to pass if he wanted to win. The opposing team was filled with big strong players, probably lumberjacks. 

On the first three plays, three Packers were knocked out of the game by injuries. Curly was afraid he would run out of players because only 20 men traveled with the team. By passing the ball, the players made less physical contact, and they eventually won 53 to nothing. From that day forward, the Packers became known as a passing team. So they're playing here at Hagmeister Field there. You can still see where it is up in Green Bay there. It's sort of a shrine. And at this point they actually have bleachers which were built by Curly's dad. But in the beginning before they had bleachers, George Calhoun would go around with his hat and collect money. That's what it took. 

It was completely volunteer. But then they did begin selling tickets and, again, had a very good season. Well, so the NFL is going along and here you see Curly. He did play on those teams as well. And here are the people who did not want to buy the tickets. [LAUGHTER] They are sitting in the trees watching from the cheaper seats. And here's a very early picture of the ACME Packers. Now, you can see this is not quite the same image as a modern football player. For example, their helmets were made of leather and could be folded up and put into a player's pocket. Some players rolled up magazines and used them for shin guards. 

The rules weren't as strict, referees weren't always fair, and player injuries were very common. So it was a tough game. Tough game. People were hurt a lot. Looks a long way from the way people look now. So here you have the early NFL. You can see teams came and went in those early years. Who do we have? We still have the New York Giants, the Chicago Cardinals became the Bears, I believe it was. No, the Staleys, is that what it was? I'm sorry, you're right. The Staleys became the Bears. 

All the other teams have vanished and been replaced by other teams. The Washington Senators were still around when I was a kid. So anyway, they're sort of coming and going, these different teams. And what happened was you would guarantee money, like let's just say the team from Evansville was going to come play in Green Bay. You guarantee them a certain amount of money to come and play. But for the Packers, they did this two games in a row and there was terrible rain and nobody showed up. And so they guaranteed something like a thousand dollars I think it was, I'd have to look to be sure, but way more than they had. And all the sudden the Packers were broke. And so what did they do but they sold shares. And there is an original share. 

They made money. And originally shares got you a seat and other things. Now it gets you nothing but a piece of paper to put on your wall. And so the Green Bay Packers became the only community-owned professional sports team. It's an amazing legacy. When we see these teams owned by millionaires and billionaires and moving them around from place to place, Green Bay in a small market town, the only one. So now they are publicly owned, and I believe they had two share offerings over time. And they began to win. What Curly understood was that if they were going to be successful, they had to bring people who wanted to watch them. And so they won three national titles in a row. 

It would be like winning three Super Bowls in a row, essentially. And it was a big deal and Curly became very famous. He was on the cover of magazines, he went out to Hollywood, and his personal life became more complicated. And so he was a star. He was a star in the United States. And at the same time, pro football began to grow, began to have bigger stadiums making more money. Still not a big money thing, baseball was the big thing, but it began to grow and become a bigger deal. And here you see him with some of his players at the time. He's coaching now and he had some very famous players that were all part of that. Let me just find where I'm going here. 

I'll just read you a little bit about the Chicago Bears. George Halas and Curly didn't like each other, and their feelings affected their teams. For example, one year George Halas sent Curly a telegram saying please take it easy on my Bears, we have many injuries. Curly knew it wasn't true. Each coach would spy on the other before games. On game day they wouldn't speak to each other. Curly said, shake hands? That would have been a lie. If I lost I wanted to punch Halas in the nose. If he lost, he wanted to punch me. Over the years they developed some respect for each other, but in the end the rivalry certainly remains. 

So they're doing great, right, they're winning, and part of that is because George Halas is emphasizing the pass. But then, over time, other teams begin to adopt the pass and the T formation and things like that. And that natural advantage is lost. Now here he is, he divorced Marguerite, he married a Hollywood model, divorced her later, married somebody else. It just sort of went on like that for a while. And after a while he wasn't winning anymore, and the unthinkable happened where he was no longer the coach for Green Bay. And he didn't know what to do, but then he went and coached the Cardinals and he was sort of distracted. And this is what he was like when he was losing. Not very happy. And in general, players said they respected him but they feared him. 

He was someone not afraid to blame. How could you drop the ball? That kind of thing. You, you're the one, you didn't block, I saw that. That kind of treatment of his players. When he was still a coach and playing, the players were so mad at him at one point that he was carrying the ball and they all just stood aside and didn't block for him and the other team just sort of smothered him. So his players, I would say, didn't like him but they did respect him. It was that sort of coaching by fear and intimidation model. And for a while it worked. But in the long run, it didn't. And he sort of, I think, my reading of it is that he sort of lost interest. 

He'd been on top, it was hard to rebuild it and he wasn't really adapting to new ways of playing. Still, in the end, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame the first year. He wanted to be the coach of the Green Bay Packers. In 1959 there was an opening and he was kind of lobbying to come back. But instead they hired this other guy. Vince Lombardi was his name. And they didn't like each other either, interestingly enough. Vince Lombardi didn't, he thought that Curly's lifestyle was sort of immoral. And Curly Lambeau is jealous of Vince Lombardi. When Curly Lambeau died and they named the field after him, Curly Lambeau Field, Lombardi was really upset. 

He thought it should have been named after himself. So there was this kind of rivalry between the two of them that really never quite became gentle. Curly Lambeau died, he sort of alternated time between California and up around Green Bay, and he died, he had a girlfriend and he showed up at her house and her brother was mowing the lawn and Curly Lambeau said, hey, let me show you something I learned out in California. And he began to show him the twist. Had a heart attack, fell down and died on the lawn. So that was the end of Curly Lambeau. So what can we say about Curly? In the end, he sort of did mellow out. He became supportive of the Packers, had a TV show where he sort of talked about the Packers and stuff like that, but anytime that there was talk about moving the Packers, as there was even way back in the '40s and '50s, the way that the Packers had been created meant it wasn't going to happen. Packers were a Wisconsin institution and were going to stay there just that way. Well, there you have Curly Lambeau as well. 

And I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about him. [APPLAUSE] Thank you.