Wisconsin Public Television University Place UPlace Presents  Lauren Onkey, "Black Music and the Black Experience in Vietnam"  January 26, 2011 UP527  cc >> Jeff Kollath: Thank you all for coming out for Act III of the "Next Stop is Vietnam:" The War on Record 1961-2008." I Hope those of you that have come to some of the previous events have really enjoyed yourselves and found it engaging and enlightening, and I think today will be equally as good if not better with three great speakers here on the stage with me. Before we get started, I'd like to thank our sponsors the Wisconsin's Veteran Museum, University of Wisconsin, Madison Integrative Liberal Studies and Afro American Studies Departments. Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame Museum in Cleveland, Ohio, Wisconsin Public Television, WORT 89.9 FM community sponsered radio, and of course our gracious hosts here at the Monona Terrace-- Monona Terrace Community and Convention Center, and with additional support from the Anonymous Fund. Like I said we are here tomorrow as well at the Wisconsin Veterans Museum at noon with a discussion of acoustic folk and in country songs with Marty Heuer, Jim Wachtendonk and Lem Genovese, three Wisconsin veterans. Then we will cap things off at 2:00 with Craig Werner and Doug Bradley doing what they do best, talking about music. That should be fantastic. We are all here because of the Bear family 13 disc 330 song box set, or "Next Stop is Vietnam: The War on Record 1961-2008." Hugo can you raise your hand? We're all here because of Hugo. (applause) Dr. Hugo Keesing is the executive producer, reissued producer of this wonderful box set. We're really thankful that he was gracious enough to come up here and help us put all of this together. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce our moderator for today's panel. 

She has been a big supporter of this event from the outset having met Doug, Hugo, and Country Joe at Kent State back in May for the 40th anniverasry commemoration of the events that happened at Kent State in May, 1970. She has been really great in helping us with this. I think she is going to have an excellent time with these three gentlemen. She'll tell you who they are and what they do. Dr. Lauren Onkey, the vice president of education at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. (applause) >> Lauren Onkey: Thank you. Thanks for having me here. I've known Craig Werner a long time, and like Jeff said, I met Doug last May 4. We had an event at Kent State University to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the shootings there. As I said to Doug, that could have gone horribly wrong to meet somebody at 9:00 in the morning and spend six hours with them in a very intense kind of environment. 

But, we quickly got to know each other and were fast friends, and I learned a lot more about what's been going on here in Madison. I was delighted to be able to throw what little support the Rock Hall could provide here. As part of our education programs at the musuem, we really see the music as an incredible teaching tool for toddlers, K-12 students, university students, and the general punlic as a kind of window to who we are as a culture. It's key to our mission and what we do at the museum. This topic inparticular is very, very rich, it's a great interest to especially high school students that come to the museum and take classes. But it's not an easy subject, which is good. We did a follow-up event to the Kent State event in June as part of a lecture series we have called Rock 'n Roll Night School. We talked about a number of songs connected to the war, many of them on Hugo Keesing's amazing box set, some others not there. As soon as we actually tried to talk about race even just a little bit, the room got pretty tense. After we played Jimi Hendrix doing "Machine Gun" from New Years Eve in '69, some folks were calling me out for having a "black agenda," whatever that would be. 

We hadn't even gotten to the Dells, and Freda Payne, and new page, and Jimmy Cliff along the way. It's been really interesting to see how this subject of African American participation in the war, in the military, but also in the music kind of resonates out there. As I've said my goal here is to stay out of the way of these incredible gentlemen to my left who I will introduce here. Art Flowers on the far left is a novelist, essayist, performance poet, currently at Syracuse University. He's the author of novels, "Another Good Loving Blues," and "De Mojo Blues," a great childrens book, "Cleveland Lee's Beatle Street Band," and a memoir, "Mojo Rising: Confessions of a 21st Century Conjureman." Tons of short stories and articles, a blues based performance poet, runs a terrific blog "Roots Blog." He served in Vietnam with the 1st Logistical Command at Long Binh, and has actually written about that experience in a lot of his work. Many of you may have seen him perform last night. Welcome, Art. (applause)  In the center there, William Bell, who's a real principal architect of Stax Volt first classic hit, "You Don't Miss Your Water," in 1961, still a killer heartbreaking record. Backed up Rufus Thomas, and before that, he was recording records in the '50s as a part of the Del Rios. Worked at Stax also as a songwriter, and a two year stint in the Army sort of interupted all that, which he spent mainly in Hawaii. 

Came back to a recording career, fantastic record in 1967, "The Soul of a Bell." You might remember, "Everybody Loves a Winner." And Albert King also recorded a key song of his, "Born Under a Bad Sign." So many along the way, "I Forgot to Be Your Lover," "Tribute to a King," which is a tribute to Otis Redding. Just great hits throughout the '70s, "Trying to Love 2," a personal favorite of mine. He continues to record and receive great awards and tour. In 2003, he was honored by the Blues Foundation with a W.C. Handy Heritage award. In 2007, he killed at the Stax 50th anniversary reuinion show. Performed at South by Southwest in Austin. Also performed at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame celebration of Stax in 2008, and he's still out there doing it. He served with the Army's 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii from '62-'63. Finally, Madison's own Clyde Stubblefield. (applause)  Introducing Mr. Stubblefield here seems like a fool's errand, but I'll try. 

Playing in his early days with Eddie Kirkland and Otis Redding, a self-taught player, an absolute signature sound. The man who kind of creates hip hop beats without ever getting full recognition, and certainly payment for those great beats. Think about a guy whose first record with James Brown is "Cold Sweat." The world's most sampled drummer. He's lived in Madison for a very long time. His drum sticks were on display at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. He's released with Jabo Starks an instructional drumming DVD, "The Soul of Funky Drummers," which is fantastic. We use it in some of our classes at the Rock Hall. He continues to perform clinics and concerts. I'm hoping today we will get Mr. Stubblefield to talk about James Brown's 1968 tour of Vietnam, which must have been hot in all kinds of ways. Please welcome our fabulous pannel. 

(applause)  Maybe we just kind of start off easy, if you all might give a sense of sort of how you were kind of crossing paths with Vietnam with the time that you either spent there, or had that experience recording about it, just to get started, situate us a little bit. >> You want to start? >> Oh, no! (laughter) >> I guess I'm elected then. Yes, I'm William Bell, and I was drafted into the military. I got my career off the ground with two hit records. On the second hit record, I was doing a stint at the Apollo Theater. My mom called me and said, you have a letter, and it said, "Greetings." So anyway, I went home and checked in. I was already two weeks late. So I was immediately drafted into the military. Upon completion of my basic training and AIT training, I was shipped to Hawaii to the 25th Infantry. Upon that, of course, to make it short, we would volunteer from time to time to do helicopter tours as gunners, and to support people, to rescue some of the soldiers out of the jungle that were wounded, or something. 

From that point on, that's how I got introduced to Vietnam and the war in Vietnam. >> Mmm. Well, on my behalf, I'm originally from Chattanooga, Tennessee. When I joined Brown, I was a southerner that didn't know nothing. (laughter) He took me around the world. One day, he taught me-- We was in New York City, which I had never been. He says, the manager says go get some shots. Some shots? For what? He said we're going to Vietnam to do some Vietnam shows. I went, "okay." (laughter) I just went to New York. (laughter) I went down and took my shots, and went back to the hotel. 

I suffered. I suffered so bad from those shots. I called the front desk and asked for a doctor. They said, what'd you do? I said, I got shots because I'm going to Vietnam. They said, ain't nothing we can do. You've got to live with it. I said, oh, okay. So I woke up the next morning and everything was better. Then we eventually got on a flight going to Vietnam. (laughs) I'm going, "Oh, my god!" We got to Vietnam, and we did some traveling around didn't portions of Vietnam, doing shows for the soldiers. 

They loved it. We loved it so much, to please the soldiers. We played in rainy, stormy nights, or whatever, but we enjoyed every moment of it. I stayed in a room in Vietnam, they told me not to open that window or look out that window there, because the building that they protect was right across the street, and somebody would shoot at you. I went, okay, don't worry about it. (laughs) But I traveled over different places, and I seen things that I never saw before. And I hope never to see them again. People just, living a life, and the soldiers, they were comfortable. I'm so happy about that part. There shouldn't have been a war, but that was happening. 

They were living a nice life. I enjoyed myself. This here was given to me from one of the generals over there. He owns a big ship now. I think we all got one of these, I'm not sure. I'm really proud of it. I honor that. I just had a beautiful time in pleasing the soldiers. >> I volunteered into the Army. (laughter) In '68, of all times to volunteer. 

I had it in my mind to be an adventurer, I believe. (chuckles) I was in school. I was a black militant. I had just gone through the whole, you know, I was in school. We had gone through taking over the Dean's office, etc., and the judge didn't actually say this, but I went on and joined anyway, because I kind of wanted to just get out and see the world. I wasn't even thinking about the fact that there was a war on. (laughter) And of course-- For a fact, if you join the Army during that time, they gave you an option. They said you can go wherever you want to go, or do whatever job you want to do. The only thing I asked to do was be Airborne. They said, why sure, you know! So then I got over to Vietnam, and like I said, I was a Black Militant at the time, so I had this great big afro, which is interesting. 

(laughter) I got to Long Binh, and the guy who was processing us was Airborne, and he says, oh, you're Airborne. And I said yeah. He said, okay, we're going to send you to an Airborne unit, he said, but you got to cut your afro. I said cut my afro? He said yeah, cut your afro. I said, well, I'm not cutting my afro. In fact, I said, what are you going to do, send me to Vietnam? I'm not cutting it. So, as a punishment, he told me I had to stay at Long Binh. Obviously, looking back, he wsa called himself doing me a favor, because Long Binh, General Westmoreland and I were hanging out. (laughter) So that's how I got to Vietnam. >> Well my first danger there was when I got there and we was going to play some show far in the jungle. 

We got on a helicopter, at some airport, and the military airport and took off. Then they told us get on the floor don't do nothing too much 'cause they were shooting at us. I went whoa, we are in the war, huh? (chuckles) And they turn around, they did-- they hit the helicopter some kind of way. We turn around and went back to the base, and got on another helicopter and took off again. (chuckles) Uh-oh! Brown was something else, he was acting like a real soldier. He was funny. (chuckles) I didn't know I was in the real war. I was there. I didn't have a gun or nothing, but it was unbelievable. People abuse each other like that, it's so bad. 

But, I was there. >> Before we continue, I'd like to say how much of an honor it is to be on the panel with my colleagues here. How much it's been a revelation just being part of this program. That presentation you made yesterday was just eye opening. This morning, to be on a panel with William, "I forgot to be your lover," Bell. (laughter) You know, it's part of my growing up. I was asking him, I said, Bell, how do you look so young? (laughter) You were hitting it when I was a kid. (laughter) >> Well, looks are deceiving. (laughter) >> Yeah, but you got a good front. (laughter) >> We actually were fortunate. 

I was fortunate, because like I said we volunteered to go on some missions to rescue soldiers and everything. There were two or three guys in my unit outfit that, of course didn't make it back, because it was a great danger to try to get off into the jungles and either hover long enough for them to lift the basket for the soldiers to get in, or to try to land and pick them up. But, we were trained for, as in the 25th infantry, as jungle fighters. All during Hawaii training we were up in the mountains on the big island, and we were mountain rappelling and helicopter rappelling, but we didn't think that we would actually go to the war zones. Once making a couple a trips, and getting back, and then when I found out that a couple of my buddies had gotten killed, the reality sets in that, yeah, this is a war. It has an effect on you. It makes you just really cognisant of how many people lose their lives in a war. Or how many families that lose a son, or a husband, or a father or something. It brings it all home. >> Well, what made me realize, I was doing USO show. 

Is when I did the big stage that Bob Hope usually did. The big one. You had to climb up, looked like the top of the ceiling to get on it. The soldiers are over in the woods behind the stage, and it was a hot day. I had on a tuxedo. (chuckles) They had on Army clothes. They was all guarding it. I went up on the stage, and that was-- With tanks with guns pointing at the stage everywhere. I went, oh my god, what is this. We played and it was so hot so they came up, a doctor came out of the field and gave me some shots, because I was sweating too much. 

They were trying to find my vein, and stuff. I go, ah leave it alone. It was a hot day, that was the first day in Vietnam. It was a big one. >> It's interesting that you bring up Bob Hope, right? Because so much of the entertainment that the soldiers got pop music, or music of a previous generation, or a lot of country western music. So the fact that James Brown is coming over-- And James Brown in '68. >> It was a shocker. But they loved it. It was heaven to them, yes. >> Art, were you over at that time, when James Brown toured, or did you go later? >> No, I went in '69. 

>> Oh, okay. >> The most important thing to me in entertaining the troops, because my last, about 4 months in the military, I was assistant corps director. That's the short timer, as we call it, they wouldn't let you go back on those dangerous assignments, so I became assistant corps director, since my background was entertainment. We traveled from miliatry installations entertaining the soldiers, and the appreciation and everything from the guys and the ladies that we got was just tremendous. It made you feel like you were doing something really, really important because for four hours or two hours, or however length of time you were able to entertain them before the next bomb or mortar round came in. They were back at home, so to speak, away from it. Their minds were away from the action and all that stuff. So it's very important. That, to me, was very rewarding as a soldier, and just as a person. >> In terms of the audiences, and Art maybe for you as an audience member, or just being a soldier, were you-- Tension over what you're listening to, and what people get to hear and what music matters around you? Music is a force where people are coming together. 

But music, also, where you're getting some tension in the audiences about what they want to hear, and what they don't want to hear? >> Well, I didn't so much. Mainly, I guess because some of the soldiers there that were at the shows and stuff, I guess they were aware of some of the earlier songs that I had done. But me being in a military uniform and being able to entertain them, they were just so appreciative, and everything that you did. Back then, I only had two hit records that were on the charts, so a lot of the stuff that I did were cover tunes and everything. We would do a lot of Stax songs and Motown songs. Some of the stuff over there, they were able to hear. They would get records from the PX and the places like that. They were able to hear some of the newer songs. There were a lot of protest songs and stuff out there about the war, because back home there was a dissention among people about, well, the war, we shouldn't be there, or we shouldn't be here. I just always tried not to put anything that was derogatory into my show. 

I would try to have everything upbeat and positive. >> Well, it didn't matter what type of music was performed, they loved it all. It took them back home. That was the principle of the thing I would think, to make them feel like they could be at home and enjoy the music that way. They loved every bit of the music, they had great times. I saw it. >> It was very interesting this morning, hearing about the tensions between country western, and soul, and rock. Because I hadn't really been conscious of them. Mostly we heard music by going to the EM club, and most of those were Filipino cover bands. (chuckles) They did everything, and "La Bamba" was their favorite. 

We all knew "La Bamba" (laughter) They did everything. It'd be funny having the Filipino guy doing James Brown, sing it loud! (laughter) I'm black and I'm proud. (laughter) So, we kind of enjoyed music. Then I had my little 8-track. I don't know if the folk here are familiar with the 8 track. (laughter) It's like an early iPod. (laughter) You know, you get your little care packages. I had six. I had Nancy Wilson, "Temptations In a Mellow Mood." You kow, six of them, O.C. Smith, "God Didn't Make Little Green Apples," etc. That got me through. 

It was interesting. There was a very interesting presentation this morning. We had a lot of tensions. There were a lot of racial tensions, but I don't remember them manifesting too much through music. Mostly, folk at the EM club everybody, like Stubblefield, the folk kind of enjoyed music. Maybe at the NCO club they were having some other kind of music, but they gave us the kind of music that we enjoyed. So, music was kind of a neutral ground, where I was, to a large extent. It's interesting, because this was a time in African American music, and I've been thinking about this since I've been here, listening to the presentation. I've been thinking, wow, how did African American music, in regards to Vietnam, reflect what African American culture was going through at the time. African American culture was really becoming very assertive. 

You had James Brown, "I'm black and I'm proud." It's interesting. I'm from Memphis, so you know, Stax was my thing. Stax always had that raw edge, but then you had Motown, which was not quite as raw. But even Motown was coming out with the Temptations, Power-- boom, boom... Even Motown was getting a little social and cultural conscienceness on. >> Well, you know, I'm very much aware of having lived through it. During the '60s, the voice of the civil rights movement was going on. The Flower Power movement was going on. A lot of things happening during that time, as some of you well know. Music was no different. 

When we started out, there was a thing about the music being so segregated because what I was doing was called "race music," and certain stations would not play it. Certain stations would not touch it. But then you have a young man by the name of Elvis Presley who comes along, and whom I happen to know personally. He kind of merged everything together. That didn't set right with a lot of the powers that be, and all of that. A lot of the soldiers identified with music of the '60s, simply because it was part of the struggle. They were into a fight, a war, that was a struggle. This was a struggle back at home, during just regular times, so they identified with a lot of the songs. A lot of the songs, like the statement songs, and all that, were very thought provoking. I did, of course, "Lonely Soldier," and "Marching Off to War," and all those things, that they could relate to, and they could identify with, and realize that we're here for a purpose in Vietnam. 

We're fighting a war here. There's a war and a transition going on at home. Like you said, you're part of the Black Power struggle. There was the Klan on one end, then you had the civil rights thing happening, so it was really kind of a transitional period, and a chaotic time that was going on during the American cultural struggle. The music itself kind of was like a cohesion between a lot of things, because after Elvis broke the color band, so to speak, then certain artists, they did get played on the hip or pop stations. I had "Private Number" with Judy Clay, which was accepted. That was the first Stax record that actually made the Billboard Top 100, way high on the charts. We were influencing culture boundaries within the music. I think that's why a lot of the soldiers really got into it. >> There was a question earlier this morning, where somebody asked, well, was black America conscious of the issues surrounding Vietnam and the role of black soldiers in Vietnam. 

They were very much conscious of it. A lot of folk considered black soldiers going to Vietnam as dupes in the community. And it was intersting, because once again, we had come out of kind of the struggle that was happening then, and that struggle went into the Army with us. We went through a process that we were calling it "Blackenization," which was that whole Brother Me Brother Blood Brother Black, Brother, Me and You Against the World. And the music of the time, African American music, which had become reflective of the struggle, provided a soundtrack for that process of the blackenization. It just got us through. Black soldiers felt very vulnerable in Vietnam. >> We had none of those issues where we were over there. I saw different races. >> But by '69, it was just-- Before, maybe, but by '69, there were three battles going on. 

There were American Vietnamese. There were enlisted men versus the officers. There was black and white. >> When Brown sung the song, "Hear It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud," everybody loved it. >> Everybody still does. >> I know. (laughter) >> I think music, more than anything else, helped people to realize that people are people the world over. >> Right. >> And it brought people together with a common denominator there that, I like this song, I like this music, because a lot of kids, black and white, were listening to it. I listened to country music and stuff long before. 

I didn't have to hide under the bed to listen to it. >> Right. >> But I listened to it, because growing up in Memphis, you heard everything. A lot of white kids were listening to black music. They were sneaking in buying the records, and everything, and getting under the covers with their headphones on and listening to black music. So, when it became apparent that okay, it's okay to listen to it, and the radio stations were playing it, I think it just said, okay, people are people, they have the same wants, desires, and everything. And once you realize that, then all of the barriers start breaking down. Even the racial barriers, because Stax was intrumental, because we were, at the time, total multi-racial in our makeup from the executives to the artists. We went on tour with mixed musicians. In some cases, sometimes we had to drive all night on the bus, because we couldn't check in to a hotel. 

>> Right. >> But collectively, Steve and Duck, and everybody, they were with me and Al and Booker, and all the rest of the acts, because we were a mixed group. A lot of the horn players were mixed. Well, if you can't stay, or you can't eat in this restaurant, none of us will eat there. So we'd all get on the bus and buy sandwiches and everything, and you'd ride the bus all night to the next gig. That was a common ground, and a common denominator that kind of united everything. Music was really the glue that did that. >> Right. >> William, can you talk for a minute about recording "Marching Off To War" in '66? >> You're going way back now! (laughter) Yeah, I came out of the military, of course. And when I got home, a really funny thing struck me, that there was dissention within the community about the war, we shouldn't be there. 

A lot of soldiers that came back from Vietnam, they weren't honored or recognized, more or less, as somebody that's fighting for a freedom or your future. There were like, why were you over there killing people. It was like a negative connotation. That struck me. I'm going, come on, these guys are dying every day. They're fighting. I know what they're going through. I've seen it firsthand. I've been a part of it. Then, you get home and you run into it again. 

So I'm saying, somebody has got to write something that can make the soldiers proud and make them feel good. >> Yes. >> And that was one of my things that Steve Cropper, which Steve of course being white, and me black, we sat down and wrote the song and recorded it. We wrote, not only "Marching Off To War," but "A Soldier's Goodbye," and then I covered a tune called "A Lonely Soldier." I was just on a thing to make the military guys feel a lot more comfortable and make them feel like they were there for a reason, because when you get up in the morning and you don't know if you're going to bed that night, you need some kind of peace of mind that tells you you're doing something right. So that was my thoughts when I did that song. >> For any of you, did music change how you thought about the war? Over the course of those years, late '60s, early '70s, was there music that kind of really made you think differently about that whole experience? >> For myself, I didn't think about the war while I was there playing music. I just thought about performing our show, and making the soldiers feel great. We could've been blown up any day, easily. But we never got into that position. So we were just performing and enjoying ourselves, making sure they enjoyed themselves. 

That's the way I felt, before and after the show. >> I have it a little different, because I was wearing a uniform. I had to think about that. Just coming through the airport  or coming home, whatever, when you were home on furlough, you could hear comments. It was like, why are they looking at me that way, or like I'm a baby killer, or something like that. So you have to have, in the back of your mind, subconsciously, you were thinking about it. >> I wouldn't say that it changed my mind about the war. I was 18 year old, and I didn't really think a lot. Or else I wouldn't have been there in the first place. (laughter) But when I got home from Vietnam in '71, and I was in Knoxville-- I was in Knoxville, and I can recall the very moment. 

I was in Knoxville, stretched out-- (laughter) And all of a sudden, these saxophone riffs came on and Marvin Gaye asked me, "What's happening, brother?" The moment sticks with me to this day. Marvin Gaye said, "What's happening, brother?" I mean, not only was it like politically and socially conscious on the level that I had not experienced, to making me think, it was artistically I hadn't heard anything like it ever before. So you know, the way it just segued from song to song, I mean, he just didn't let you go. It kind of made me realize something consciously that I had become aware of while I was in Vietnam. I had always thought of history as something that happened to somebody else, some other time. But in Vietnam, I realized, this is history, that I am in the middle of history, that I am history. And you know, "What's Happening Brother?" kind of crystalized that for me. The struggle that he had to do that with Motown, and they kept, saying you can't do that, man. He said, I'm going to do this, you know. So as an artist now, that still speaks to me. 

Every time I hear it, it takes me back to that moment. It makes me realize what I did way back in Vietnam that was of value. So, I don't know. >> You ended up, of course, incorporating it into your work and your novel. You have a protagonist there that comes back, several of them, right? >> Right. >> So it was something you really wanted to work into your art. >> Right, my first novel was about three soldiers bringing the war home. And yes, I'd say that that played a part. When I got back home, one of the things I really wanted to do, that drove me to become a novelist, is tell the story of black soldiers in Vietnam. Because it was a really unique moment in history, and I don't know that it'll ever happen again like that, because it's a different consciousness now. 

>> Can you say more about what you mean there? The uniquness of that moment, especially for soldiers. >> Well, I'm saying for black soldiers. But actually, I'd say for soldiers, because it was also reflected. I was saying earlier that the conflict, when I got there in '69, it was after, you know, all these things that had gone down. And Nixon had said that the war is over. So you know, nobody wanted to be the last fool to die in Vietnam. And I mean, it was, okay, we're through? No, you're not through yet. I mean, it's through, but you're not quite through. And it's like, oh, we are through. (laughter) And this was the young soldiers' attitudes. 

The older soldiers were still, but the young soldier's were like, oh, no, no, no. You know, the whole flower power was forgotten. We were all the heads, and the old soldiers were the drinkers. (laughter) It was just, so I forgot, what's the question again? (laughter and applause) But it was a very special moment in terms of, whew, for black soldiers. I look at black soldiers in the Army today and I'm thinking, you know, they don't have, they don't have the same hostility to the idea of being in the Army that we had, and the same kind of like, our involvement, you know, we, whew, we challenged the Army in a way that they could not do now. My Captain got fragged. And I don't think-- and that's not quite-- And a lot of that came out because it was the '60s, you know. And it wasn't a black soldier that fragged him, but I mean, you had the Panthers, and we had guns, and it was like, okay now. And black soldiers felt very vulnerable. It was like do not (###) with me now. 

(laughter) >> Or like Jimi Hendrix says when he introduced "Machine Gun," there's a war in Vietnam and a war at home. >> But it's different now, so it wouldn't be the same for black and white young soldiers. And now, everybody's a volunteer. You know, the draft is gone. >> Right. >> So you've got a different type of Army. >> Clyde, when you were over there, it was a stripped down version of the band, right? It wasn't the full band? Was it a few, you went with a smaller group when you were actually in Vietnam, is that right? >> Yes, Brown normally has two drummers, and he could only take one drummer, which I was chosen. (chuckles) I think we had a five-piece band. It was amazing. We done the whole show. 

>> A full show in 120 degrees. >> It was so hot, oh, god. I could just take my clothes and wring them and water just run off of them. Unbelievable. It was a pleasure. >> Did you meet a lot of soldiers? I'm thinking back to some of the guys that Art's talking about. It's a little bit earlier, but did you meet a lot of black soldiers when you were there? >> I met a lot of soldiers, period. Black, white, whatever, just met all the soldiers and signed a few autographs, gave out a few drum sticks and shook hands, and hugs, and everything, and said, we'll see you soon. >> And you were there for a couple weeks, was it? >> About two weeks, yeah. >> These shows were in the daytime? >> What's that? >> These shows were in the daytime, right, some of these shows? You were outside in the middle of the day? >> Oh, god! >> We took a bus that had screens on it, all around it. 

Every corner, there was sandbags with machine guns behind them. Machine guns at every block. It was just nothing but machine guns. I went, this is unbelievable. We never saw any of them fire. The only time we saw something fire was when we was on one of the air bases, and they were shooting at something on the other side of the field. But otherwise, we never saw anything beside the helicopter we were in. Nope. But we were right in the middle of the war. Today, I can't believe it. 

(laughs) >> That was something that James Brown was eager to do, right? He was trying to get over there? >> Yes, he wanted to entertain the soldiers like Bob Hope. Bob Hope had been there so many times. I had seen his show on TV, and I had never thought in my life that I would be over there performing on that stage. I went, okay. (laughter) >> Could we think of more opposite people than Bob Hope and James Brown, right, in terms of what they mean for our culture and everything. >> Really. >> But I don't know whether you know about this. But I read that James was trying to get over there, and couldn't make it happen. And it wasn't until after Dr. King was murdered that he actually was invited to the White House by LBJ, and they were able to make it happen. Is that right? >> Well, as far as I know, see, I don't know how he got there. 

But he was trying to get over there, and they would not accept him at that time. But after he hung out with LBJ and stuff. (laughter) He got over there. That's the time I knew about him trying to get over there, and then he got over there then. >> That's the interesting marker in the changeover to what you experienced so much, right, if we get into April and May of '68, Stax begins to really change, doesn't it, William, after Dr. King is killed. The situation at Stax starts to shift. >> Oh, yeah. That was a very big change, of course. Like I said, Stax was multi-racial in the first place. We caught a lot of flack because the atmosphere in Memphis at the time was very segregated. 

We had people-- We would come out at night and turn around and lock the doors up in the studio. And if there were blacks and whites involved, which there obviously were, musicians and singers and stuff, the police would pull over and want to pat you down, and trail you as you got in the car, and all that kind of stuff. When Dr. King started, the Sanitation March, of course, that escalated everything. And us, being at Stax, the studio was located in the heart of the ghetto. And when Dr. King was assassinated, everything in Memphis just went up in chaos and smoke, so to speak. But to show you about the neighborhood that we were in, practically every building was vandalized or firebombed, except Stax. They would not touch it. We had occasions where some of us would walk out in the afternoon, and we had the parking lot across the street at the time. And to walk Steve, or Duck, or some of the clerical people across the street, we had to really do it as black and white. Isaac, myself, and I think David Porter, they asked to come down to the radio station to try to calm the people down and stop the fires, and all of that stuff. 

But it was a really chaotic time during that particular time. Out of that chaos, of course, developed a new understanding among blacks and whites about, do we really want to live this way, or are we going to change and make things better for everybody, you know. I think that was one of the things that I realized in coming out of his assassination, that because the hotel that he was assassinated in, we used to write. We'd check into the hotel and have writing sessions all night, and other artists from out of town would come in. We were very familiar with everybody, the hotel owners and everything. So it was just a time for reassessing what you're all about as a person and as a community. I think we had a couple meetings downtown with the police commission, the mayor, and other folk. Out of that, Stax was right in the thick of it, because we, along with Sun Records and Elvis' estate, were the things that people really revered, so to speak, during that time. So we just kind of really had to come together and pull together as a community and make things better. That's what happened. 

>> Of course, we're talking about the same period. We've got the Tet Offensive, and the war is escalating, you know, so both of those kind of going on simultaneously as '68 unfolds. You can feel the music shift, or as you suggested, you know, there's struggles at Motown for Marvin Gaye to do what he wants to do, and Stevie Wonder to do what he wants to do, and you're starting to hear that. It had to be felt at some way through the music, you know, in Vietnam. >> Of course. It was felt deeply among most of the entertainers, because with the exception of a few, Allen Toussaint went in the same time that I did, and a couple of other entertainers that I know of, but with the exception of a few, a lot of entertainers didn't get to experience firsthand the war. But back home, you had the dissention and a lot of people saying, well, we shouldn't have been there; we're losing the war; we lost the war. And when the soldiers would come home, rather than like we do now, cheer the soldiers at airports and places, people were saying why were you over in the first place, and call them baby killers, and stuff. It was a real traumatic time for them. A lot of the guys would come back, and being in Vietnam for any extended length of time, either they came back on drugs, or something, but they had to do something, whether they were drinking a lot, they had to do something to try to cope with the situation. 

Really, in those jungles, it was really bad. To come back home and still have people to react that way, then a lot of the entertainers decided, wait a minute, these guys didn't ask to go, a lot of them, you know, they didn't ask for the war. But they're fighting for their country and they should be shown that they are appreciated, both in song-- There were a few songs that came out, like I think Edwin Star's song about the war. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing, which in effect is true. But war is still going on. We read about history, but we don't profit from it, so we still fight. >> Correct. >> What can you do, you know? But I think that any person that goes, leaves his family, his home and surroundings to go to war should be treated with respect when they come back. >> That's right, definitely. >> Because while you're there, you're not there because I want to be over there fighting and killing, but I'm there to make home safer, to make my wife, my family and my whatever, my neighbors, so they have a safe place back home. 

You're there, you're doing a service for not only your country, but for yourself and your family, too. That respect should be there. >> Definitely. >> A lot of times, it's not.  >> Two points that are contrary. One, sometimes war is necessary. You know, we want to do a just war, but sometimes war is necessary. Two, I hear a lot about, and I know it was the case often with white soldiers, but black soldiers didn't really come home to the black community. I can't speak for everybody. In my experience, and in the in the experience of my brothers, when black soldiers came home after, let's say the transitional point of '68, after King got killed, and the struggle kind of hardened, and the story of black soldiers in Vietnam started becoming part of the culture, when black soldiers came back home to the black community, they weren't, we weren't looked down on. 

It may have been the case with the more general population, but not in the black community. Black soldiers were treated kind of with respect when I came home in '70. By then, we had kind of developed a little reputation, you know, for defying authority, etc. I played the role of Vietnam veteran for quite a while. (laughter) >> That was in your community. but it didn't happen that way in mine. >> What year was it? >> Well, I came back in '66. >> Okay, by '70. >> It probably changed some, yeah. >> Like I said, I can't speak for anybody. 

>> But it was not just black soldiers, I think soldiers in general. When I came back, they were just looked down upon, because for some reason, the majority of the population felt that we shouldn't have been over there; It was an unjust war, and why were we ever there in the first place; and we lost the war. So all of that was just kind of directed toward the soldiers. Now, the black soldiers, I'll say this. We did have have one problem. We go over and fight a war. And if you're lucky enough to come back, and then still there were places that we couldn't eat and we couldn't go to a restaurant that we could eat in, or we check into a certain hotel. We fought that battle for a while. As far as being a soldier, I think in Memphis, and I got back into the entertainment thing, in a lot of the communities, you know, that it was just not. >> War is greed for someone else, that's what it's about. 

>> I'm sorry? >> War is a greed for someone else to win. Someone else is going to win war, we don't win war. We fight it. >> I think nobody wins a war. >> There's money involved, believe me. There is. They are greedy. >> The reason I say that, and I'll clarify that. You fight a war, whether it's Vietnamese, or Chinese, or the Japanese, or the Germans, and you come home and say five years lapse, and all of a sudden, okay, fine, that country is no longer our enemy, so we're friends now. Why did you go over and kill that 10,000, 20,000, 100,000 people and then you come home and say, it's okay to love that person right there right now, because we're not at war. 

I just think that war is one of the most senseless things that we can do. Personally, this is my personal observations from living as long as I've lived, and have seen family members come through war after war, and gone through war myself. >> It's like an uncontrolled game. >> It is. It's a power struggle among nations, and stuff, but as far as the regular population and any travel, you realize people are people the world over. We have the same desires, frustrations, whatever, no matter what culture you come from. Even if you don't speak the language, the emotional range is still there. And nobody wants their kids killed. Nobody wants their families bombed, or whatever. I just think we should find better ways, and I've said that many times since I've been out, and everything, and after fighting a war. 

I've said that there should be ways that we should be able to sit down and agree and disagree. That's the utopian way of looking at it. But it will never happen probably in my life. >> I'm in total agreement that war is a failure of policy. >> Yeah, when you've got too many greedy people. >> Okay, I'm in total agreement. But war is part of a very complex human condition. And sometimes, well, I mean I hate to go there, but fighting Hitler. I mean, sorry, but I mean, sometimes war is just sometimes war. I agree, totally, that it's always best to come up with other options and to work very assiduously to avoid it getting to that point. 

But you know, I also believe that you've got to be ready if it goes down. I say that as a committed universalist, as a committed pacifist. But I also understand that the human condition is very complex in that way. What we were talking about-- Because one thing that I was thinking about when we were talking about people coming home from war, I was thinking about the young guys. I was in an anti-war peace, a while back, it was Soldiers Against the War. This was Iraq at the time, actually. I got a lot of empathy for them, because when I was in the Army, you couldn't do but one year in Vietnam. Even then, they gave you a couple weeks off, R&R, because it was considered stressful. Soldiers now have got to do two, three, four tours, that's like, oh, no! It's like that's unreal. Part of that is because we've kind of cut a deal where we're just going to send them, we've just let them-- You know, whatever it is that American society has just stepped away, and it's like the war, it doesn't affect us the way it should. 

So, you've got these soldiers-- (applause) And so when they come back, you know, you just kind of, I don't know, you just kind of hope that they-- I don't know, but I don't think it's sustainable. If anything, what were subjected to coming back is nothing to having to go back three, four and five times.  >> Maybe this is a good time to see what kind of questions we have out in the audience and kind of open up the conversation. Are we going to do this on mics, or just questions from the audience? Mics or no mics? I'm going to take that as a no mic. (laughter) Questions out there? Yes, right in the middle. >> All right, from soldiers and musicians, Hendrix and the war. It's an open-ended question. >> Welcome home, welcome home. I don't know what to say about that. Are we supposed to say something about that? (laughter) >> If you choose. 

>> Well, you know, Jimi's my boy! (laughter) Airborne, and the best blues man, you know, present company-- (laughter) Best blues man that ever was. But you know, what can you say about Jimi. I'm not quite sure what to say about Jimi, except that I bow before him. >> It's interesting how he goes from, you know, early '66 or so, he's making occasional comments about in general supporting the war, and you know, coming out of being a veteran, in that sense, and kind of slowly learning a lot more and kind of finding ways to get at that confusion musically. >> The way the culture evolved on that. >> You've got to support the troops, because that's unthinkable not to support your soldiers. >> You've got to support them. >> Because they're there, a lot of times, they're there because they volunteered as patriots. Sometimes they get drafted, or for whatever reason, so a lot of times they're there, and they don't want to be there. They feel they have to be there. 

Which is true. So you have to support them. >> Well the shame of a lot of that is when they come home and they don't get the things they should have. >> Well, that's true. There's a lot of things when you come out of the military, a lot of soldiers, they wind up losing, or can't find jobs, losing their homes. >> Right. >> There are a lot of things that go along, I call it collateral damage, peripheral things that go along with a war. >> Then you have the situation of all the chicken hawks who don't mind sending soldiers to war, but they don't want to help them when they get back. The fact that they're sending them off, we don't help them when they're there. >> The soldier has a worse life here at home than they do over in Vietnam. 

>> Or Iraq and Afghanistan, is what we're talking about now. >> Some of us who were against the war wanted to support the soldiers, but we were against the government intervention. It isn't that simple. >> No, you're right. >> It's not. It's a complicated thing. Like I said, if you asked a soldier if they want to be on the front lines getting shot at and being shot, most times, they'll tell you no, but I feel I have to be, you know, because my country has asked me to serve, so I'm here, which is rightly so, because you live in a country and you get the fruits of your labor. But again, if we had other ways that are contrary to war, I wish we could find them. >> I don't agree with you saying, my country. I don't think it's your country that you're going to fight for. 

You're fighting for someone else, not your country. >> Well, I disagree with that. You live in this country. >> Right. >> You reap the benefits, the fruits of this country. You're able to travel from state to state. >> Why would you have to fight for it? >> Well, because if there's a war going on. >> Who started the war, though? >> Well, it doesn't matter. Nobody wins in a war. >> Right. 

>> It doesn't matter who started it. >> It shouldn't be. >> But let me ask you a theoretical question. A man comes to your house and he kicks your door in. You don't want to fight. What should you do? Should you let him come in and just take over? >> Call the police. (laughter) >> And they get there an hour and a half later, and then what? (laughter) Then what? They get there 30 minutes or an hour and a half later. Then what? You've got to defend what's yours, your family, your property at that time. That's what I'm saying. If a war breaks out, whether we're being bombed or whether we bomb somebody and creates the war, hey, it's still a war. 

>> But still, there's no reason. >> Right, there's no logical reason, but the war is still there. It's been going on for thousands of years, and everybody knows it's been going on for thousands of years. But nobody profits from the mistakes. >> You know, the question of what do you do, the question of how do you not support a given war, and let's be kind of specific, let's say Afghanistan. Without, and yet, try to-- have to support the troops, that's difficult. That's just difficult. But I mean, most of us kind of figure out how to do it. But you know, you're always going to have tension with it, I think. Because basically, you've got some guys who've got issues. 

But mostly, it's young, dumb like I was, 18, and just kind of aren't conscious of the greater politicals. You just have to kind of work with it and be conscious of the fact. It's something you've got to work with. I don't have an answer. >> When you're 18 and the testosterone is flowing, and everything, you all build up that this is something that's, you know, glorified. Then you get into it where the bullets whizzing by you, and you see your friend or buddy next to you, his head blown off, all of a sudden, you realize, but it's too late then. Right? (inaudible) >> I wanted to make a comment in relationship to the Vietnam veterans coming back from Vietnam, and what was happening. I got back in October of '68. I'll give you my personal feeling. I felt like I was the political football. 

We were at the height of political tension in this country, the polarization in this country in 1968, in Chicago, the convention and the elections, in November of '68, the whole Nixon winning the election and coming into the White House in January, 1969, we felt like a political football, because what was happening here was the people opposing the war identified the military personnel as the people, the reason that that war was continuing on so long. We were going over there and fighting, so we were the cause of the war, because we were actually going and fighting, not resisting. >> Correct. >> And those who supported the political ideology and philosophy, and supported the war, we were the ones that were going over there, and not doing a good job. >> Right. >> In fighting a military conflict. We were the ones that were-- >> Losing the war. >> Losing the war, and we weren't putting our heart and soul into winning that war. That's what I felt. And very frankly, I felt like they're just not even acknowledging the fact that I was there. 

I was in denial for a number of years. >> And you are not alone. >> I am beginning to learn that. >> And you probably still don't have an idea of why you were there fighting. >> Oh, definitely. I went there. My dad had fought in World War II, and in the South Pacific. (inaudible)  >> Or at least didn't want the Americans imposing. >> Right. >> I remember Muhammad Ali talking about no Vietnamese ever called me (###). 

(laughter) >> I'm going to go back to music for a second, if that's okay. Was there a pull or an influence for the soldiers, during their tour over there, from the black churches and gospel music, or was it an almost completely secular musical landscape? >> I'd say that was an individual choice thing. Most of the music on the AFNI and stuff was secular. But you know, individually, you'd go whichever way you'd want to go. I wouldn't know. I haven't looked at it to make a difinitive statement. I'd say that I think it was mostly secular. But if you had folk who were religious, they'd listen to religious. But most of the common, you know, the music at the EM club, the music at the shows would be secular. I don't know, fellas. 

>> I just wanted to say I haven't heard the name Aretha Franklin, "Respect," which was extremely popular in '67. >> It was. >> And what it meant to be black. >> As far as the black community? >> Do you mean in Vietnam? >> I don't know if that was one of the key songs. I know that "I'm Black and I'm Proud" was one of the ones. "Respect," lyricly, it could've been, but I'm not privy to it. >> To my knowledge, "Resepct," was a major piece, but it was more of a feminist statement. It was the women, respect, buddy. (laughter) >> That line is in the alternate version, right? (laughter) >> When I got back from Iraq, we had this huge concert, and one of the gentlemen that helped organize that was --, and he put together a really nice bill of artists, spanning anywhere from Ted Nugent and KISS to JZ and Destiny's Child. It was a really nice opportunity, because it was open not only to service personnel, but to their families and things like that. 

So I know after, when you were a short-timer, you went about organizing some of these meaningful entertainment opportunities for service personnel. I was wondering if you could share a little bit about what went into putting that together to identify what was important for them to hear musically, you know, as an entertainer, what it was like to get out there, if you could address what it was like as an entertainer, to be out there in the moment as a peformer. >> Well, the first thing is that we wanted to able to entertain and to get the soldier to just, take him to a place where he forgets for a minute that he's actually on the front lines during the war, like I said, for that two hours or four hours, or whatever, depending on the acts that you've got. The other thing is, that you wanted to put together the type of show that he could take away from the concert and feel good about himself, or feel good about maybe making it through this or getting back home, and all of that, so keep him in a positive frame of mind. That's mainly what we would look for. >> The soldier's too, they looked forward to hearing American music. They had so many radio stations they would pick up records over there, that that's what they would be listening to. The foreign music, for them over there, made them feel bad, so they would listen to American music and that would pep them up. >> Give them a little taste of home, and stuff. That's an interesting question. 

>> In addition to, you know, trying to chill them out for a couple hours, and what you were just saying, did you ever feel like you wanted to transform, illuminate or was that a little too much to ask for under the circumstances? Do you know what I'm asking you? >> Well, as an entertainer, you felt good, and you also felt like you wished that you could transform them into something else, and being someplace else. But you knew that wasn't going to happen, so what you would try to do is get them into a frame of mind that while they're there, they're being entertained, they're watching the dancing girls, they're listening to the songs, whatever, listening to the music. And then once they leave, they still have a feeling of that's a little feeling of home. >> An oasis. >> You talked about chilling out. I think that was the term you used. I would think Clyde, that you guys weren't chilling anybody out. You got some people very, very excited. (laughter) I don't know what they must've done with that kind of energy that you brought there in that heat. >> Then, even having just the opportunity to release that energy, you know, to get up and dance, and forget about sitting and watching the flash of light or something and not knowing where it's coming from. 

That just in itself was just wonderful for the soldiers. >> Yes. >> The ones that I could get to shake your hands or something, they were just so glad we were there, you know. >> It was a magical moment. >> It also lets the soldiers know that they're not forgotten, you know, because they knew most of the details and the hoops that we had to go through to get there. >> Did you have a question over here? (inaudible)  >> Did you say hiphop is never played on commercial radio? (inaudible) Oh, yes it is. (inaudible) >> I think she's saying that the gansta/angry is the one that kind of gets the play. >> Well, my personal feel being a musician and a creator of music, I think if they-- What they're rapping about is things that are happening in today's society. But even though they call themselves poets, and "they" when we're talking about musicians too, so I'm a part of that. But I think if they would present it in a way that could be played on the radio, that it's not what you say, it's how you say it. 

>> I'm sorry to say it is played on the radio. >> Well, some of it. But a lot of the mainstream radio just will not play a lot of the cursing and the degrading of women. And totally, I personally agree with that. There are ways to say anything. >> I think she's asking, and correct me if I'm wrong. (inaudible) >> Well, you're not tuning in to that station. (inaudible) >> She's saying politically conscious rap is not being played commercially, instead you get a lot of the gansta stuff. (inaudible) >> You mean that there might've been a voice for more politically conscious music in popular radio in the Vietnam period versus now? >> Some rap is very relevant. Like I said, it's about and pertaining to what's happening now in society. 

But it's the way you present it. You know, you can say anything as long as it's not in such a harsh way that people turn off from it. There are some rappers out there that are writers, that create rap, that are very, very good. They're knowledgeable. They're very well educated in knowing how to present things. But then there's the street rapping and gansta rap, they don't color it up, they just go right to it and cut through the chase. >> History has apparently decided that gangsta is marketable. >> Sure. >> And apparently it is, because people pay for it. You know, the rap that we prefer, apparently people, or not as many people, are paying for it. 

It's a difficult call. >> It is hard to imagine that a song like Edwin Starr's "War," there would be a smash on the pop charts now, you know what I mean? There's some records like that that broke through at that time. >> It depends, because what he was talking about when you listen to the lyrics, it's downplaying war, which is great, but I think-- I don't know if it would get played as much on popular radio now. >> That's what I'm saying. That kind of song being a smash hit. >> Oh, smash hit, I don't think it would be a smash now, because a lot of the stations have merged, which is a problem. You don't have the independent stations that can decide what to put on or what's good for this community, and everything. You've got 200 stations that are programmed in Timbuktu someplace that's playing for every community, so you know. >> I wanted to ask, when they throw a word out-- (inaudible) I'm thinking of the intensity between the audiences that you played for, or being a member of the audience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the night that Dr. Martin Luther King was assassinated, you guys were in Boston that night, correct? Was that a live television show going on? >> We were in Memphis, Tennessee, that evening. 

>> Okay. >> We were going to play in Memphis that night. Someone came up to Brown and said, we want you all to go to Boston right now. So the bus went to the airport and we got on a flight and flew right into Boston, and did that TV show thing. >> I'm just curious about the intensity of the audience in Boston right after the assassination, versus the intensity of the audience in Vietnam. We were talking about people who were just on the edge of completely changing the world, and how the music kind of reflected that, but also gave it a sounding board. >> Right, it brought people together. It made them understand that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. It brought people together. It was fabulous, fantastic. 

You know, I saw a lot of things that I couldn't believe, but music done it. >> Mr. Bell, about all the concerts that were just after. >> After? (inaudible) I think for three or four months, they didn't have any live concerts, because they didn't want people congregating. Memphis was a hotspot at that time, so they just curtailed all of that for a minute. When the concerts started back, of course you had people that, some of the artists had cut some protest songs and some other things. And then you had people like Curtis Mayfield that had "Keep on Pushing," and all of that stuff. So it was just a series. But people were a little more cognisant of the effect of hatred and bigotry, and stuff like that then. >> Well, I seen Brown-- >> That just kind of really brought it home. So, there was a lot more tolerance of any kind of music, that you have the right to play it or sing it. 

I might not agree with it, but you have a right to do it. >> I saw Brown do in Boston do exactly what you said. He brought people together when it should've been a war like that. Unbelievable. There were no fights after the show in the streets or nothing. And that was amazing, because you'd have fights after basketball games, football games. This was so quiet and peaceful after Brown finished, it's like nothing ever happened. >> That's what music should do. It should make you think. It should take you from one gamut to the other, feeling happy, sad, energetic wanting to dance, that's the power of music. 

That's what it should do. (inaudible)  (inaudible)  (applause) >> Thank you. I appreciate your comment, because women have always been a part of the war, whether you're back home or whether you're on the front lines, or whether you're in the hospitals. But the struggle still goes on, and I feel your pain. But women have always been a part of the military wars. (inaudible) >> Right. >> Really, the woman is the boss. (laughter) >> You know, I'll thrown in there, just musically, Country Joe MacDonald has written some great songs about war nurses in Vietnam, because he got interested in this whole subject, so it's made me think of another example where you're actually seeing some musical representation of this. If you go to Country Joe's website you can find out a lot about that project and hear some of that music. Yep? (inaudible)  >> That's a complex question. 

(laughter) I don't know exactly how to answer that. I'd have to say music probably did all of the above, you know, depending on the person or the demographic. Music did play a major role. Other than saying all of the above, I don't know how to answer that, because for some people, I'd say that music probably did provide catharsis and kind of kept them chilled out. And for some, it may have aggravated their issues and tensions. But without having looked into it, you know, systematically, I wouldn't know how to answer that question. But music did play a major role, because it just played a major role in the culture of the time. The resistance and flower power, SDS, etc., you know, we were their conscience of what was going on back in the states. Gentlemen, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts today. This was fantastic. 

(applause)