cc  >> As we begin, I'd like to  extend thanks to our partners in  supporting this course, the UW  Office of Corporate Relations,  the UW College of Engineering,  for their technical support, and  financial support from the  Kaufmann Foundation, which is  committed to advancing academic  education and  entrepreneurialism.  Additionally, we thank our media  partners, Wisconsin Public  Television, for taping today's  lecture and for putting it on  their University Place channel.  I'm very pleased to welcome  today Paige Goldner.  She is an executive recruiter  with QTI.  Paige brings a decade of  recruiting and human resources  success to her role as executive  recruiter with QTI Professional  Staffing.  In her role, Paige focuses on  the recruitment of senior level  individuals for non-profit  organizations.  She has successfully conducted  searches for CEOs, executive  directors, vice-president, and  director level positions, both  in the Madison area, as well as  on the national level.  Paige holds a bachelor's degree  from the University of Alabama.  Her additional expertise  includes designations as a  professional in human resources,  and certified Internet  recruiter, as well as  certification in Hoken  Assessment Systems.  The QTI Group is a locally owned  firm with a 50-year history  serving communities in  south central Wisconsin. 

 The firm includes recruitment of  blue collar to boardroom  positions, HR consulting, and  human resources services.  As we continue our conversation  about social entrepreneurial  efforts, I've asked Paige to  talk with us about preparing for  professional service in the  non-profit sector, a sector that  is growing tremendously, and  seeking entrepreneurial thinkers  to foster growth in very  positive ways.  So please join me in welcoming  Paige Goldner.  (applause)  >> Hello, can you hear me?  Okay, great.  Thanks for having me today.  I'm excited to have the  opportunity to speak with you.  As Jeanan said, I've been  recruiting for about ten or 11  years.  And I've recruited both  for-profit and not-for-profit  sectors, although the last  several years have been focused  in executive level leadership  within non-profit.  And I think that experience has  really given me a really unique  opportunity to see some of the  qualities that make the sectors  different.  But more importantly, the  qualities that make the sectors  very similar. 

 And I think we're living in an  age and time where the lines of  distinction between for-profit  and not-for-profit are becoming  very blurred.  And I think it's an interesting  and exciting time for that  reason.  So through some of my experience  working with leaders in both of  the sectors, I'm hoping to  provide you with some  information today that will  hopefully show you how some of  the blurring of the sectors  provides those of you with that  entrepreneurial mind set  a really unique opportunity.  Let's see here.  Okay.  So some of the things I'm going  to touch on today, first of all,  I'd like to start by discussing  some of the parallels and  differences between the concepts  and definitions behind  entrepreneurialism and social  entrepreneurialism.  And then we'll talk a little bit  about defining and forging  a path that aligns not only  with your personal goals, but  also professional goals,  so those two can possibly mesh  with one another.  I'd also like to discuss with  you some of the leadership  traits, that in my experience,  I think transcend any profession  and any sector.  And finally, we're going to wrap  things up with some of the ways  that I feel like you can take  all of this info and apply it to  a job search or development of  your own venture, if you're  choosing to start your own  organization.  So to start with, I'd like to  talk a little bit, as I said,  about the concepts behind  social entrepreneurialism  versus entrepreneurialism. 

 And let's start with  entrepreneur.  According to Webster's, the  entrepreneur is the one who  organizes, manages or assumes  the risk of a business or  enterprise.  That's a pretty succinct  definition.  But I think if we kind of  further expand on that, really,  an entrepreneur could be  described as someone who starts  with an idea, or a concept, or  an innovation, or even a  product, and is able to kind of  carry that into a business  that's able to sustain itself  and generate revenues, simply  based on that particular idea or  concept.  Conversely, or kind of tying  into that, I suppose, is the  term social entrepreneur.  And it was a  little trickier for  me to find one exact definition  of a social entrepreneur.  But I think this one described  it very well, and tied in nicely  with the definition I just  shared with you of entrepreneur.  I think where an entrepreneur  would typically measure business  success based on profit or  return, a social entrepreneur is  going to assess their success  based on the impact that he or  she is able to make on society.  And I think what's really  important to keep in perspective  as we go through the discussion  today, is that being an  entrepreneur does not  necessarily mean giving up your  desire to make the world a  better place.  And conversely, being a social  entrepreneur does not  necessarily have to mean  foregoing a business that would  be a for-profit venture. 

 You can do both.  And the business can take really  a variety of forms.  You can choose to go into  non-profit.  You could choose a for-profit  opportunity that has a double  bottom line measurement.  Or, a hybrid organization that  would combine both the concepts  behind a for-profit and  not-for-profit organization.  So I really found that the fact  that there was a broad playing  field in this area really  exciting.  Because I think it opens up so  many opportunities.  And a couple comments that I'll  make about being an  entrepreneur.  I really think being an  entrepreneur is about a state  of mind, versus a profession  necessarily.  It's a leadership trait. 

 You don't need to own your own  business to entrepreneurial.  Entrepreneurial individuals are  those people who are innovative.  And that really can be applied  in a variety of settings.  It certainly can mean starting  your own business.  But it can also mean looking for  creative and innovative ways to  impact your organization, an  organization that you may be  employed with.  So, for entrepreneurs, whether  it be for-profit or  not-for-profit, that playing  field is wide open.  And you really never know when  an opportunity is going to  present itself to make a  difference.  And I have an example of how  this occurred for one individual  that I think is quite  interesting.  There's a gentleman by the name  of Trevor Field.  And Trevor stumbled on a really  innovative machine while  attending an agricultural fair  in Johannesburg, South Africa. 

 And so, in visiting the  agricultural fair, he was  walking through the displays.  There were various forms of  fruits and vegetables and  animals and farm equipment, and  kind of nestled in all of this  was a child's roundabout, or a  merry-go-round, and it was  attached to a water pump.  And the water pump was pumping  water into a field as this  roundabout turned.  So Trevor, who was a veteran  advertising professional, kind  of mulled this around in his  mind to think about how he might  take this idea and make  something greater with it.  And what he came up with was a  really complex water system.  And he pictured adding to this  water system a high-capacity  water tank that would be a  four-sided tank, where he could  use the four sides for  advertising space.  And he decided with the  advertising space, that some  would be sold as advertising  messages, and others would be  public service announcements.  So basically, where everyone  else saw a merry-go-round that  pumped water, Trevor saw  advertising billboards that  pumped water.  And he was able to turn this  idea into something that was an  innovative, sustainable and  child friendly answer to one of  South Africa's most pressing  problems, and that's the need  for clean drinking water.  And I have a short video that  I'm going to show you, that  talks a little bit about what  this system does. 

 § §  >> Sometimes it's the  simplest of ideas that can  change the world most  profoundly.  And sometimes, it is the most  challenging problems that can  have the simplest solutions.  Access to clean, abundant water  supplies is a huge problem, and  getting more difficult daily.  Apparently, over a billion  people don't have a clean water  supply.  Around the world, water related  diseases kill an estimated  6,000 people every day.  And dirty water is responsible  for an estimated 80% of all  infectious diseases in the  world.  Here's part of the problem.  In much of the world, gathering  water is done the old-fashioned  way, by walking to a water  source and literally lugging a  day's worth back home.  But there's no guarantee this  water's clean.  Kristina Gubic is from Play  Pumps International. 

 >> The water is being shared by  cattle, goats, livestock  upstream that could be  contaminating the river.  People are washing their  clothes, and possibly doing  other things.  >> But in many cases, clean  abundant water exists,  literally, right under people's  noses.  In some cases, as shallow  as 120 feet below the surface.  But for these rural villages,  that might as well be Mars.  Even if someone were to dig them  a well, they often don't have  the resources to supply the  electricity or diesel fuel  needed to run the pumps that  gets the water out of the  ground.  Enter the Play Pump.  It looks like a merry-go-round.  In fact, it is a merry-go-round  attached to a pump.  Every spin sends clean water  into a storage tank, at the rate  of 1400 liters per hour. 

 >> Play Pump Water Systems  utilizes the power of children  playing.  So if we can find a community  with a rural school, where  children are more inclined to  use the pump, we've got a  sustainable water supply.  >> The pump takes about a day  to assemble.  To help pay for upkeep,  the sides of the storage tank  double as billboards.  >> That's great!  >> We took about five minutes of  play, and now we've got enough  water to fill this bucket.  >> The water tastes good.  >> Drinkable.  >> But that's not the only  impact.  Clean water means less disease.  Available water means less  carrying time, especially for  young girls. 

 And that leaves more time for  school.  >> The girls are now in a much  better position, because the  girls are able to attend classes  on time, unlike before.  Before, they would go and fetch  water, and then would have to  join the boys later.  So the girls are now able to get  to classes on time, just like  the boys.  They now get equal opportunities  like boys.  >> It is a potentially life  changing technology.  And the non-profit group, Play  Pumps International, with the  help of groups like the Case  Foundation, have set an  ambitious goal of installing  4,000 Play Pumps all across  Sub-Saharan Africa by 2010.  They estimate that will bring  clean drinking water to  ten million people  in ten different countries.  Easy to build, easy to maintain,  Play Pump provides a low cost  solution to a whole host of  complicated, expensive problems.  Now that's what I call a good  idea. 

 >> Sponsored by National  Geographic Mission Programs.  >> So I shared that with you  because I think that Play Pumps  International is a really  interesting organization that  combines some of the things that  I was just talking about, with  the opportunities that exist for  people who are entrepreneurial,  but want to have a social  mission incorporated into the  organization, as well.  And I think it's particularly  interesting to sort of talk  about how this particular  organization came to fruition.  First of all, after Trevor  discovered the Play Pump, he  engaged some of his longtime  business colleagues, and they  licensed the invention from the  engineer.  He launched a for-profit  organization called Round-About  Outdoor.  And basically, Round-About  Outdoor is the company that's  main product is the Play Pump  Water System product.  And the way they structured the  business model was they used  donations to underwrite the  merry-go-round, and the sealed  water tank, and the water tap  stand, and the bore hole that  was drilled to pump the water  through.  And then he used revenue that  was obtained from the  advertising billboards to  maintain the water system.  So this jointed funding has  guaranteed the sustainability of  these pumps for the villages  that they serve.  The company has grown and  evolved further. 

 They created a South African  NGO.  And the purpose of this was to  really facilitate those  partnerships with corporations  and foundations, government and  individuals.  And what has become of that is  the organization that they  referred to as Play Pumps  International.  Play Pumps International is also  incorporated in the US as a  501(c)3.  So I felt like this was a really  perfect example of a hybrid  organization that combines the  best of those for-profit and  not-for-profit entities.  And it's also such a fantastic  example of someone who took an  idea and really ran with it.  And in the process, he has made  such a significant impact on not  only providing the people in  this region with clean drinking  water, but also on health and  education, and gender equality,  and overall economic  development.  And I just thought it was  amazing what one simple, kind of  innovative idea can do if you're  open and looking for it.  That takes me to my next point.  That's relating to kind of the  successful traits of leaders. 

 I think certainly, Trevor and  the people involved in this  organization exemplified those.  But I think it's important to  note that the attributes that  are inherent to that kind of  entrepreneurial spirit, again,  they cross sectors, and they  cross professions, and cross  positions.  I mean, I think in preparing  for your career, whether it be  non-profit or for-profit,  or possibly creating your own  organization, there are really  some traits that are certainly  identifiable and consistent with  that entrepreneurial mind set.  I will comment that we certainly  are living in a time when all  organizations are really facing  unique challenges.  And so, to become a leader in  your field, you really have to  try to hone your skills in these  areas.  And I say to become a leader,  and I say to hone your skills,  because I think these are skills  that can be developed.  And they are developed over a  time period.  And another point of  clarification I want to make  before we kind of go through  some of these, that the term  "leader" does not necessarily  mean manager.  And we'll kind of get into that  in a few minutes, but I think  it's important to recognize that  you can be a leader without  necessarily managing other  people, or managing systems or  projects, or things of that  nature.  I'll also share with you, that  as a recruiter, I hear from  employers quite often that they  would like me to identify  candidates that have an  entrepreneurial spirit. 

 And I think that within that  statement, all the  characteristics listed here,  they all dwell within that  overall sort of entrepreneurial  spirit term.  I think it's that  entrepreneurial spirit, when  you're able to demonstrate it,  it's kind of what separates you  in a job search, or separates  you if you're developing your  own business and seeking  partnership or funding for that,  or even within your own  organization, it really is what  will separate you as an  employee.  So I think we'll go through and  I'll clarify some of the points  and what I mean by some of these  statements.  I think one of the first traits  of a successful leader is the  ability to demonstrate vision.  And what I mean with vision is  being able to articulate in a  clear and simple language what  the future is going to look  like.  Placing an emphasis on what will  be, rather than what is.  I think that this is a quality,  if you talk to any management  guru, they all would agree that  strong leaders demonstrate the  ability to show a strong vision.  A leader really should be able  to concretely state what success  is going to look like, and how  the organization can get there.  I think adaptability is another  really important trait.  I think you really need to be  flexible. 

 If you're starting your own  organization, for example,  sometimes you may go in one  direction and realize that you  have to change course.  So being adaptable is quite  important in that scenario.  I think it's also important in  an organization, if you're an  employee, to be adaptable.  There are times where you may  have opportunities to do things  that are outside your job scope.  And I think it's really  important to be adaptable and  flexible to those, because those  are the types of opportunities  that are going to allow you to  hone those skills that are  listed here.  Innovation, I think we probably  saw that being one of the  strongest leadership  characteristics in the example  that I showed you, but it's  important to recognize that we  are in a global economy.  So everyone is competing with  everyone else across the globe  for all types of resources and  all types of revenue, and things  of that nature.  So it's very important to be  innovative, to look for new ways  to approach a problem, or the  solution to that problem.  I think that's particularly  important in the case of  non-profits in a challenging  economic time, looking for  innovative ways to grow and fund  that non-profit entity.  Engagement. 

 That's another really important  trait that you see in leaders,  or you see in people that are  identified as potentially strong  leaders in organizations.  There's a term that references  the fact that we're in a  creative economy.  And what that term says is that  knowledge is not necessarily the  strongest advantage in this day  and time.  What is, if you sort of  subscribe to that creative  economy philosophy, is people  that are willing to bring  initiative, and passion, and  engagement to work every day.  It's hard to kind of quantify  those traits.  But it is something that's  easily recognized.  And as a leader, if you start  your own organization, and  become a leader within an  existing organization, it's also  important to recognize that if  you can develop a culture that  allows people to be engaged,  that equates to success, again,  no matter what sector you're in.  Focus and follow through  is another important one.  And I think the first four  that I've discussed are ones--  Particularly the first three  are ones that you see often in  people that are real creative  and that can come up with a  vision and think about what  things are going to look like  ten years down the road.  That's not to say that those  individuals don't have focus and  follow through, but sometimes  the two challenge people to get  from one idea to actually  putting it in reality. 

 So I think recognizing as you're  beginning to think of things for  the organization, or developing  your own organization, how you  might follow through on those  initiatives.  That's going to be really  important.  And I think also being able to  recognize a time in which there  are certain tasks that you might  need to delegate to individuals  who are kind of stronger in this  area.  But an idea is only as good as  the ability to execute it and to  follow through.  So that's a key leadership  characteristic.  And then finally, a social  consciousness, I think is  extremely important.  I think we're living in a time  where a lot of leaders who are  senior leaders in organizations  are certainly being perceived as  selfish or socially  irresponsible.  And organizations today really  have a unique opportunity to  incorporate its social mission  into the organization, and to be  able to be aware of some of the  impact that can be made, not  only on say the bottom line in a  for-profit situation, but also  in the community or world as a  whole, is an extremely important  characteristic.  So now that we've kind of talked  a little bit about some of the  things that strong leaders  possess, I think that you can  kind of begin to formulate a  plan for identifying  opportunities that would fit  your own career goals.  I'm going to go through some of  the things that I think might  help you in doing that. 

 One of the things that I will  say as I'm presenting today is  that, you know, I really, I  think back to when I was in  school and I wasn't in,  necessarily, a position that I  knew what I was going to do  next.  I kind of understand if the path  may be a little unclear.  Those of you sitting here may  have a strong sense of what you  want to do.  Maybe you know you want to go  into non-profit, or maybe you  know you want to be simply in an  organization that has a mission  driven organization.  Or maybe you know you want to  start your own business.  But I think whatever the case  may be, all of the points that  I'm going to talk about here now  are going to apply.  I think I'd also really be  remiss if I didn't address the  fact that we are in  unprecedented times  economically.  And I think for a lot of people,  that presents some unique  challenges.  But I would suggest for our  purposes today, let's think  about it more as an opportunity,  an opportunity to be innovative,  an opportunity for  self-discovery or reflection,  and really giving yourself a  chance to find out what it is  that you want to do next.  So with the end in mind, I'd  suggest a couple things in  focusing your sights forward. 

 First of all, when you're  looking for those opportunities,  look for the opportunity to hone  your leadership skills.  And keep in mind, what I  mentioned earlier.  Leadership is not necessarily  management.  So opportunities for leadership  can come in a variety of forms.  So be alert for those.  And also, look for opportunities  that provide you with a chance  to do something that you enjoy,  something that possibly has a  mission that you believe in, or  allows you to make a difference.  I came across an interesting  study that I wanted to share  with you.  There was a study done on  business school graduates who  graduated in 1960.  And there were 1500 graduates.  They grouped these individuals  into two categories. 

 In the first category was  individuals who decided that  they would pursue a career that  they felt like would make them  the most money now, and then  they could kind of pursue their  personal interest later.  Category B was made up of  individuals who decided that  they would pursue their personal  interests now and hope that the  financial success would follow.  So, of the 1500, 1245 fell into  Category A.  And the remaining 255 fell into  Category B.  They circled back with these  graduates 20 years later.  And what they found was, of the  1500, there were 101  millionaires.  A hundred of them fell into  Category B, and one fell into  Category A.  I thought that was really  interesting.  Because here these people were,  that pursued what they believed  in, and didn't really sort of  keep the financial piece of it  in the forefront of their mind.  And they ultimately became more  successful. 

 So I think choosing a career  based on the driver of money  doesn't necessarily always  create or equate to financial  success.  I think if you give yourself the  opportunity to choose based on  something you find fulfilling,  and something that develops you  as a person, and develops those  leadership characteristics, I  think then you will have  achieved success.  The financial piece will follow.  I think another important part  as you go through determining  what comes next, is look for  those ways to the get the  leadership experience.  I think some will be  conventional and others may not  be as conventional.  But you have to kind of be alert  to them.  Be open to positions that may  fall outside of your field of  study, or the position that you  may have had in mind for  yourself when you graduated.  And consider the overall  opportunity, what are you going  to gain from whatever that  particular opportunity might  present.  I would say volunteer for  projects, or suggest significant  initiatives that would add  value, if you're in a  corporation, or if you're  presented with a chance to do  something different.  Look for those opportunities. 

 I'd also suggest looking for  internships.  Some internships are paid.  Some are not.  In either direction, I think  it's a great way to get some  experience.  And I will tell you that it is  the number two, second only to  on-campus recruiting, method  that employers use to identify  employees for their company.  So it's a great way to get the  foot in the door.  I'd also say seek opportunities  to join a board.  Being on a board gives you a  really interesting window into  how organizations run, the  differences between a board and  management.  And it also gives you an  opportunity to be a part of an  organization whose mission you  may believe in, an organization  that you may want to work for.  It may also give you that unique  perspective, if you're starting  your own organization, to get an  understanding of how a board  governance plays, particularly  in a non-profit setting. 

 Finally, if you're not already  doing so, I think it's really  important to volunteer.  First of all, you are giving  back to the community in which  you live.  But you're also developing  leadership skills.  And you're making connections  with individuals in the  community.  And all three of those are very  important.  The networking piece is  something that I think is  extremely important, as you  begin to go through your job  search or developing your plan  for what comes next.  It's really a critical part of  your success, no matter what you  choose to do.  And the key to success in  networking is, you need to  develop those relationships  before you need to call upon  them for a favor.  And I think that if you  recognize opportunities to  develop that network, it's  something that will serve you  throughout your professional  career.  So I'd like to talk about some  of the traits that you can  develop to be a good networker,  and then I'll discuss some of  the ways you can develop the  network. 

 First of all, when you're  thinking about networking, think  about developing what's called a  social currency.  And I think this term is kind of  loosely defined as that insider  information.  It's something that allows you  to connect with other people.  It allows you to open up the  conversation with something  other than, "How's the weather?"  or something along those lines.  You can do that by reading a lot  of information, trying to  research and learn things that  may be outside of what you would  typically study, or maybe what  you would typically be  interested in.  Because if you're able to speak  broadly on a variety of topics,  even sort of at a high level, it  allows you to connect with  people.  Part of networking is just being  that good conversationalist.  And if you're able to maintain  that conversation on a variety  of topics, including talking  about an individual's personal  interest, or hobbies, or things  of that nature, those are all  ways that you can connect very  easily.  I'd also say that, I'm talking  about you doing the talking, but  it's important, too, to listen.  Asking a lot of questions and  then listening is a way that you  get a lot of information. 

 People like to talk about  themselves, so it gives you a  chance to connect with them  there.  I'd say another key component of  networking is, look for ways  that you can help the other  person.  Number one, that's what building  a network is.  It's kind of a give and take.  So it's important on that level.  And then I think also if you  believe in the good karma, if  you're able to reach out and  help them, there may be a time  that they can return the favor.  And I'd say finally, follow up.  If you meet someone, send them  an email.  Continue to maintain that  network.  The network is only as good as  you continuing to keep those  contacts warm. 

 So in terms of developing a  network, there are tons of ways  you can do this.  Of course, social networking now  is extremely hot and in the  forefront of a lot of employer's  minds, although I know it's been  something that students have  used for a number of years.  But employers are kind of  beginning to get on that band  wagon of using it as a  recruiting tool.  I guess I would caution you on  one thing with using Facebook or  MySpace.  Consider what's on the page, and  make sure you'd want a  prospective employer or an  investor in your business, or  someone that you're networking  with on a professional level,  make sure that you'd want them  to see that information.  If you weren't as interested in  using that particular tool for  those purposes, LinkedIn is a  little bit more of a  professional social networking  site.  That's something that you could  use to maintain kind of separate  networks.  I'd suggest always getting out  to events, or conferences,  gatherings of people that are  within your field, or within  your field of study, or just  people that you feel would be  possibly relevant to the  direction that you're looking to  go.  Of course, student clubs or  interest groups on campus are  great.  Leverage organizations or  individuals that you've  interacted with previously. 

 And maybe the contact has gone a  little cold, but you can  re-initiate contact with that  individual.  Network with professors.  These people know a lot of  people in the community, and  certainly can give you tips on  your job search or point you in  the right direction of making  other connections.  I would say with networking,  there's really no kind of magic  bullet.  There's no one place that's  best.  But it's something you really  need to continue to do, and  should always be a part of your  professional routine.  So I guess the final tip that  I'd leave you with today is  having patience.  Whether your goal is to start a  business or lead a non-profit,  or create a whole new social  enterprise, sort of like what we  saw with Play Pumps  International, that need for an  entrepreneurial mind set and an  entrepreneurial spirit, it  exists in all organizations.  So it's something that will  serve you throughout your  business career.  I think having patience with  those thematic steps that  ultimately gets you to your goal  is almost as important as it is  to develop some of the things  that we've talked about today,  because if you're so concerned  with the end result, you may  miss out on the lessons that you  learn along the way. 

 Each opportunity is that, an  opportunity to develop and hone  your leadership skills, and a  lesson learned to continue to  allow you to grow in your chosen  field.  So those are the points I wanted  to share with you today.  I appreciate your attention.  I'd certainly be happy to answer  any questions that you have.  >> Paige, the way that handle  this, is I kind of walk around,  and if somebody has a question,  they can raise their hand.  I hand them the mic so that we  can make sure that in fact we  are able to get their question  on tape.  You made an interesting comment  that I just want to kind of  reflect on a little bit more.  And I'll do so in context with,  it was a statistic that I've  since forgotten, several years  ago, but nevertheless, it did  make an impression on me many  years ago.  You were talking about the  importance of volunteering.  And I remember once, many years  ago, hearing something that  suggested that even  professionals that are already  out in the work world, not  necessarily trying to get  experience, but have already  been out in the work world, have  better opportunities at  networking and finding their  next professional opportunity  when they're volunteering. 

 >> Right.  >> And when I heard that, I had  to stop and think about it, and  in fact realized I have moved  into new professional roles,  literally gotten jobs as a  result of being exposed to  people that I have volunteered  with.  I'm just wondering if you might  comment on that a little bit  more, the importance of  volunteering and especially for  this group of younger  professionals and professionals  to be.  So, how important it is in this  economy for them to gain  experience that way.  >> I mean, volunteering exposes  you, as Jeanan said, not only to  a lot of different people who  are in a variety of professions,  but it kind of gives you a sense  of how organizations run, the  issues that are affecting the  community.  It provides you, of course, with  that sense of satisfaction.  That's really important.  But it really helps you develop  the network.  And I think it's something that  once you begin to volunteer,  there are organizations that you  may volunteer with early on, and  then you may evolve.  But I have to say that as a  recruiter, it's something that  we actually, I do take into  consideration, particularly with  the leaders that I'm recruiting  for non-profits. 

 I have a lot of people that are  trying to bridge the gap between  a long career in a for-profit  setting and wanting to now go  into non-profit.  And we look at, if they've been  working in for-profit, have they  at least in some capacity, been  serving in a non-profit setting.  And it's extremely important to  have that experience.  It just makes you a more well  rounded applicant.  It makes you a more well rounded  employee, and allows you to know  what's going on in your  community, all things that are  very important.  >> And I know that I've had  students in the past who've been  interested in perhaps moving  into positions that allowed them  to be involved in marketing or a  variety of areas.  And they maybe didn't have the  on-the-ground professional  experience that recruiters  required, but they could get it  by virtue of volunteering.  I'm going to go to the back,  Jarris has a question.  If you could speak to, and you  mentioned this as well in your  comments, that board service,  board service to non-profits is  a form of volunteering that I  wonder if a lot of the students  might not see themselves doing  that at this point in their  life, but in fact, they would be  valuable as board members.  >> Absolutely. 

 Non-profits, a lot of times, are  trying to do a lot with a very  little.  And since students like you who  are coming out of school that  have a fresh perspective, they  know the latest technology,  they're a lot of applications  that you could offer  organizations that they may not  have thought of.  I too thought, well, gosh, you  know, I want to be on a board,  but I'm not sure.  I've got about ten or 11 years  of business experience.  But it's funny, organizations, a  board is nice when it's made up  of a variety of perspectives.  Not everyone who serves on a  board needs to have worked for  25 years.  It's nice to have people at all  levels of their career, who are  able to give input, add ideas,  willing to serve the  organization.  I think that's also very  important, that when you commit  yourself to a board position,  you're committing to serving  that organization.  So showing up and doing what you  promised that you're going to do  for the organization is very  important.  So I think those opportunities  certainly exist at any level in  your career. 

 >> My name is Jarris.  My question is about résumés.  Is there a different structure  that you should use when  applying for a non-profit  position.  And a second question basically  is I know a lot of people are  scared to get into the  non-profit area, because they  feel like there's no money to be  made.  Are there any six-figure  positions out there in the  non-profit sector?  >> Okay, good questions.  First of all, in terms of a  résumé, I don't think there's  one format that's specifically  better for non-profits.  I have personal preference on  format of résumé.  I like a chronological résumé.  I think it's best when you list  your accomplishments and  attributes, and things of that  nature, in more of a bullet  pointed format as opposed to a  paragraph format.  The reason for that is,  generally people who are  reviewing résumés, whether it  be a recruiter or an internal HR  professional, they're looking at  a lot of résumés, so they're  looking for key words and  quantifiable results to jump out  at them. 

 If I have to read a paragraph  for each sort of position, it  becomes a little more  challenging.  I think it's also nice to have  descriptors.  So let's say you did volunteer  for a non-profit organization,  having a descriptor underneath  the title of the organization  that states kind of what that  organization does, what the  mission was, and then underneath  there, describing what you did  and how you did it, is really  important.  But having a section with your  volunteer or your board  experience is also going to set  you apart from other applicants.  And any type of experience that  you've had in school that you  can relate to what they're  looking for is going to be very  important.  But I think that chronological  résumé is a nice format.  >> One of Jarris' other  questions had to do with, can  you make a living working in  non-profits, and perhaps even do  better than that.  >> I think you absolutely can  make a living in non-profits.  I think that part of the reason  why I shared that statistic with  you about the study was that I  think the opportunity to do  something for your career that  you find fulfilling is really  very important.  But I understand making a living  as well. 

 And there's certainly six figure  a year jobs in non-profits.  And in fact, I've placed  individuals into those  positions.  They're generally going to be a  leadership position, and that's  something that, as you go  through your career, you can  evolve into the six figure  leader positions.  But for a small up and coming  non-profit, I would say that  you're generally looking at  certainly making a living that  would sustain you.  It's just as you grow and  develop over time, the six  figure positions definitely  exist.  >> I just lost my train of  thought here.  Okay.  I know what it was.  I had a question about kind of  the context of your experience,  Paige, and the fact that  organizations like QTI are even  in the business of recruiting  and doing placement for  non-profits now.  That might have been unheard of  ten or 15 years ago. 

 And we know that because the  non-profit sector has grown so  tremendously over the course of  the last several years, that's  one of the reasons why.  But in your experience, as  you've been involved in  recruiting, do you find that  non-profit organizations are  looking for a different kind or  caliber of professional than  they might have been looking for  in the past?  Just the fact that they're  hiring professional recruiters  to look for talent.  >> I think that's an excellent  point.  I think some of the leadership  characteristics that I listed  there are significant.  I found it really interesting  when I went from a for-profit  recruiting situation into  non-profit, that I would a lot  of times hear that word,  entrepreneurial spirit, which  sort of, when I first started in  it, it didn't seem to mix in my  perception.  I mean, I didn't think of  non-profits as being  entrepreneurial.  But what has happened,  non-profits, just like  for-profits, are having to  compete.  And they're having to look for  innovative ways to generate  funds.  So those organizations are  looking for talent that can come  into the non-profit to help them  think of new ways approach  developing funds, to approach  possibly creating organizations  that would have an aspect of the  organization that would generate  revenue.  And I tend to think about  Goodwill as an example of that. 

 They have this whole section of  the organization that's the  retail store.  They're also a large temporary  placement employer.  So they've kind of created these  different silos that sustain a  non-profit charitable  organization.  These organizations are also  recognizing that although I  think some of the challenges  facing for-profit businesses  differ slightly.  There's a unique chance for them  to kind of bridge people that  have been in that role in  for-profit into non-profit.  And I think that is a unique  opportunity for those of you who  are kind of considering what  direction to go, is that  developing your leadership  characteristic in either sector  gives you a whole playing field  that's wide open in developing  funds for these organizations,  and really creating a  mission-driven for-profit or  not-for-profit.  >> So we used to say, and I'll  just offer this as a point of  reflection, it's one of the  reasons why our school and the  UW has been developing the  Center for Non-Profits, because  it used to be pretty common, the  non-profit organizations might  either by happenstance or due to  default, just elevate maybe a  great service provider.  It could have been a social  worker.  It could have been a nurse.  It could have been somebody who  was providing service to the  constituency that their mission  required they provide service  to. 

 They might elevate those people  into executive director  positions.  And this again, years ago.  I think what we're finding as we  work with more organizations,  more non-profit organizations,  is that just because you're a  great service provider, doesn't  necessarily mean that equates  into being a great leader in a  non-profit.  And so more organizations are  really looking for the person  that has studied, or is  studying, or develops some  acumen in management, be it  human resource management,  marketing, financial management,  and all these other areas.  Because it is like running a  business in so many ways.  >> Right, I would agree.  And I understand that some of  you in here have a non-profit  major and others don't.  So I think the opportunity  exists for a lot of different  experiences to go into  non-profit, and to take that  leadership talent and offer the  organization some innovative  ideas.  That's something they definitely  are looking for.  And to Jeanan's point, ten or 15  years ago, I don't think it was  really as common for a  non-profit to engage in  executive recruiters. 

 It's something, they pay a fee  for it, so it's obviously  something very important to them  to find that right individual  for the organization.  >> Are there any other questions  for Paige before we close?  Well, I certainly know that you  all will join me in thanking her  for a marvelous presentation.  >> Thank you.  (applause)