cc  >> Hi everyone, welcome to  Wednesday Night at the Lab, our  weekly free science outreach  series here at the UW  Biotechnology Center.  I'm Kathy --, the state outreach  specialist, and it's my pleasure  today to introduce Ed Lyon who  is the fulltime director for  Allen Centennial Gardens which  is the teaching gardens here at  the UW Madison.  Ed has held previous positions  in gardens including executive  director at the Rotary Botanical  Gardens in Janesville and also a  position as director of  education at Olbrich Botanical  Gardens here in Madison.  He's also taught across the  Midwest and written for a  variety of gardening magazines.  And his talk today will be  talking about the history and  also the vision for the future  of Allen Centennial Gardens.  So join me in welcoming Ed.  [APPLAUSE]  >> Can everybody hear me?  [INAUDIBLE]  Everybody can hear  me now.  No?  Good evening, everybody.  What beautiful weather to sit  and look at images of gorgeous  gardens, right?  I think it's very timely, in  fact, I teach a number of  classes, as was mentioned,  across the Midwest and we are  just entering the time when all  of our students, no matter where  they are in the Midwest, are  looking for just those kinds of  talks.  And we get very busy January,  February, and March because  everybody wants to talk about  plants and see the images of  what we hope so desperately at  this point is coming. 

 As mentioned in the  introduction, this is a new role  for me.  I started in July first in this  position so I will go through a  little bit of my own personal  background, some of the history  of Allen Centennial Gardens and  sort of the idea of some of the  visions that I bring for the  gardens.  Now whenever I talk about  botanical gardens, no matter  which one I've been in, the  first question is always is, and  I'll probably get a good  response here compared to what I  do many places, how many of you  have been to the gardens?  Oh, we love to see that.  I have this tendency to work in  gardens that we always call  hidden gems.  Rotary Botanical Gardens is one  of those.  You have no idea how many people  have never been there even  though it's not that far from  us.  Allen Centennial is much the  same way.  And there's even people on  campus and people who that are  alumni from here that will say  to me where in the world are  those gardens.  So I think I'm attracted to  gardens of that nature.  A little bit about me, and you  did here that in the  introduction. 

 This is a second career for me.  And many of us have those second  careers.  My first degree was from  Cornell.  I have a whole first career in  Agra-business.  So it sort of goes along and  fits into the same mode, I  think.  But I came back to UW to get my  graduate degree at 40 years old.  That was an education in itself.  When I came back to school, my  original intention was to teach  in an academic setting.  And my intention was to go on to  a Ph. D.  And it makes a rather  interesting story about Allen  Centennial Gardens. 

 My advising professor in  horticulture is Dr. Dennis  Stimart, and he was the person  that was managing Allen  Centennial Gardens.  I did an internship in the  gardens and I started helping  him sort of behind the scenes  from the entire time I was doing  my graduate work.  In the process, I decided what I  really enjoyed about teaching  was teaching all different  groups of people.  I really liked the fact that  botanical gardens allowed me to  interact with children, with  teenagers, with students, with  adults.  And I become enamored with  public garden and looked toward  that as a career.  And as a result, I focused my  studies more to go to public  garden administration and  actually quit with my masters.  As I said, I do also do a fair  amount of speaking to both  professional and public  audiences across about four or  five different states right now.  I do write for several  publications, as well.  I'm a regular regional reporter  for Chicagoland Gardening  Magazine, if you happen to get  that one.  So it's a lot of fun. 

 I'm very passionate about  horticulture.  As I said, I did my graduate  work that's what I started  working at Allen centennial  gardens.  From there I went down to  Chicago Botanical Garden, was  their symposium special events  coordinator.  And, as you heard before, then I  moved back up here to Olbrich  and was the director of  education, moved on from there  down to Rotary Gardens for  almost 4 years was executive  director down there.  So I tell everybody I've come  back home and it's been full  circle.  I get a lot of jokes from my  peers in the industry because if  you can imagine going from  Chicago Botanic at 365 acres  down to 20 acres down to 2 and a  half.  They all tell me I'm going the  opposite route and direction  than they've been going because  everybody is looking to the get  larger.  But I found all of those gardens  so different and different ways  of working that I think I bring  a lot of elements of all of  those types of gardens in the  role as director here.  And I'm happy to be here.  I love UW, I love Madison and I  love Allen Centennial Garden. 

 So for me it has all come around  full circle.  A little history about the  gardens, and this is something  not a lot of people know.  In fact, I was at a workshop  today at the UW foundation and  sat next to somebody who works  right here on campus and has  visited the gardens numerous  times and had no idea about the  history of the house.  And a lot of people don't know  the history behind it.  As you know, the house is sort  of the focal point of the two  and a half acre gardens.  It is built in a Victorian  style.  What was really interesting  about the history of this is it  was built because the university  was trying to woo the first dean  of agriculture to come here.  And in order for them to get him  he gave them a list of  requirements they had to  fulfill.  One of them was to build a house  with his specifications.  If we could only do that today. 

 And they did.  They built this house to his  specifications.  The house construction began in  1896.  A lot of time you'll hear the  house referred to as the lake  dormer; that's what they called  it at the time.  And you'll see the view of the  lake which we no longer have  today.  But you look at the house and it  certainly has not changed much  in all that time.  So it actually ended up housing  four different deans of the Ag  school.  Now the last dean, EB Fred, was  only dean of the Ag school for  two years and then he became  president of the university.  Well, he must have really loved  the house because he said he  wasn't going to move out.  And he and his wife Rosa  actually lived in the house  right to the duration until they  both died. 

 So after that, it no longer  housed deans or presidents.  But it's actually was placed on  the national register of  historic places in 1984.  There was a landscape  architecture student that got  interested in the house and  thought we really need to find  ways to protect it and preserve  it because of it historical  significance and she's the one  that actually went through the  entire process of getting it on  the register.  It now houses three different  groups.  It houses some of the folks from  the Ag and research stations.  It also houses some of the staff  for the college of Ag and life  sciences conference services and  then myself and my limited  staff.  It is not open to the public.  In fact, the only access to  public is when we do weddings  and those parties have access to  one room for a bridal changing  room.  >> So it's not a residence now?  >> It is not a residence.  It houses offices, specifically. 

 In 1979, the plant sciences  building, they made a decision  to expand it.  And it used to have a teaching  garden.  And expanding it, it took up the  space where the teaching gardens  existed.  So they felt this was still very  important to the horticulture  and plant science students to  have a teaching garden and the  decision, the eyes looked over  towards this house that was two  and a half acres around it and  the decision was made this is  going to make a great spot for a  garden.  So they got the go ahead to do  that, started raising money in  order to accomplish that.  The garden itself was built and  then dedicated in 1989.  And it does sit on two and a  half acres.  I think a lot of people aren't  aware of the actual size of that  property, as well.  Part of the name is also  interesting people say Allen  Centennial, where does a name  like that come from?  Well Ethyl Allen was a donor who  provided the first initial gift  that allowed major construction  of that garden to begin with.  So the Allen comes from her  name. 

 The Centennial comes from the  fact that in 1989 when the  garden was dedicated, it  coincided with the 100th  anniversary of the Ag school.  So it's actually a combination  of two things where the name  comes from.  And you can see it's fascinating  you look at the pictures and the  amount of work and movement of  soil and the building and the  construction that went into  transforming that site.  The primary mission of the  gardens is, again, to serve the  same as the gardens did when  they were connected to plant  sciences is to serve as an  outdoor classroom for students.  We have free public access  year-round.  The gardens never close, and we  charge no admissions.  It is available to weddings and  other events and if you come on  weekends throughout the season  you'll be very likely to see not  only weddings take place but  wedding parties have their  pictures taken there.  You'll find interesting groups  that like it as a backdrop and  they'll come in from various  companies to use it as backdrops  as well.  The one thing a lot of people  don't recognize and is a word  I'm trying to get out is we  don't receive, even though we're  part of the university and we  sit on university land, we do  not receive any funding from the  university or from the state.  There are no taxpayer dollars  that go into supporting,  maintaining and building this  garden. 

 We are entirely self-funded and  that includes my salary.  There is one fulltime employee  and you're looking at him.  In fact, I'm the only one that  you're going to find over there  right now.  We do hire students in the  summer.  And like any botanical garden we  rely very heavily on volunteer  labor, as well.  I bring a different role to the  gardens.  In the past there hasn't been a  true director's position.  The gardens were managed and  maintained by a head gardener.  Many of you may know Bill.  He was the head gardener from  the very beginning of those  gardens. 

 And instrumental in a lot of the  growth and development of those  gardens.  And he retired this year and  when he did the decision was  made to elevate the role to the  role of director and that's  where I came in.  We rely very heavily on  students.  We do have the summer we had  four full time students.  We are very lucky that there are  people out there that feel the  education is, hands-on education  and internships are important.  All four of those students were  supported by internships that  were through donations.  We also have students that will  come over and work for credit.  We have an entire class of  students that as part of their  class they come over and they  have to put in 12 hours a piece  of volunteer labor and then  write a paper on it.  So real heavy emphasis again on  the fact that this is a teaching  garden for our students.  And again there is absolutely no  way even with the students that  we could do the amount of work  that we do there and keep those  gardens so beautiful without  volunteer labor. 

 Yes?  >> I have a question.  Why do you call it volunteer  student labor when they are  required to spend 12 hours for  credit?  >> Sometimes it's reluctant  volunteerism.  Especially since the big class  that comes over is Horticulture  for Non-majors.  And it's an interesting class  because most of these kids see  this as a science elective.  And they think oh, wow, we're  going to learn about pretty  flowers and that's got to be a  lot easier than a science class.  And it's very interesting to  watch them.  I actually helped teach the very  first class way back when I was  getting my masters and  developing the first labs.  Some of these students actually  end up a little bit resentful  when they find out that taxonomy  and plant structure and  photosynthesis is a lot more  complicated than they think.  Now one of the things that I try  to do when I had all the  students over there is somehow  get across to them not even so  much the horticulture emphasis,  many of these kids are never  going to go on and do anything  in horticulture.  So my goal this is summer, and I  think that it worked because  many of the students came up to  me and told me they appreciate  it, somewhere down the line they  might own their own home or mom  and dad or grandma and grandpa  or somebody in the family right  now might have a home and so  what I tried to do is relate to  how it might affect them later  on down the line. 

 And I do have many, many student  volunteers who come to me and  they want to volunteer willingly  and freely to expand their, as  like an unpaid internship so  they can show that they have  experience.  So you get a wide variety of  some forced volunteerism but an  awful lot of very willing  volunteerism, as well.  And, obviously, any of our adult  volunteers, they're coming  because they want to be  intimately involved with that  garden, they want to learn more  about gardening.  And it's a wonderful group of  people.  There are 21 distinct gardens  within the garden all with  themes.  And that's not untypical of most  public gardens.  You'll find that pretty much in  all of them.  And they range anything from  very formal to naturalistic and  again this is only a few of  them.  And you are probably intimately  aware of all of them.  Anything from a formally  designed English perennial  garden. 

 This is one of the sites for  weddings.  The Victorian garden because the  whole front of the house, we  want that to fit that Victorian  era.  The Victorian home, there was a  very specific way that they  designed with plant materials at  that time.  We have the pond, always a great  thing for kids.  Kids love water and they love  the coy in the pond.  We have probably one the finest  rock gardens in the Midwest.  That's not a typical garden that  you're going to find in public  gardens or in the home garden  but we have a very active rock  garden society in the area and  one of our first major donors  had very strong interest in rock  gardening and a lot of his money  went that direction.  So many times your donors can  dictate some of the areas of  your gardens and your areas of  specialty.  And we can go all the way to  very natural areas like our  woodland garden.  There's lots of gardens to add  up to the 21. 

 All right, now what I want to do  is I want to address the fact  that the gardens is going to be  20 years old this year.  We've hit a 20th anniversary.  This is sort of a significant  amount of time for any public  gardens.  Things change over time.  We are in a business that's no  different than any other  business and 20 years is a great  time to stop, evaluate and say  this is what we built.  This is the audience that we've  served the last 20 years.  What is the next 20 years going  to bring?  What is the audience going to be  in the next 20 years?  Are things changing?  Do we need to reexamine?  This is the time you'll find a  lot of businesses will do a new  master plan, new stage of  planning because we can't expect  that things are going to be the  same year after year after year  and decade after decade.  We are in the green industry  right now at the cusp of the a  lot of things changing very,  very dramatically.  We're going to see some major  changes that are already  happening and we're going to see  happening very quickly over the  next ten years.  We need to address that. 

 We need to make sure every  public garden out there and  everybody in the green industry  is keeping up with it and  addressing it or we're going to  lose a lot of our current  clientele.  I give a lot of talks to  professional audiences about  trends and the change in trends  and to this day, these are  people who are in the industry,  these are people who should be  in the know, I will ask that  audience before I put up this  slide, and everybody in the  green industry has known the  last 10-15 years that gardening  has been the number one  recreational activity in America  and they all think that it is a  growing thing.  And I will ask those audiences,  how many of you think that it is  growing?  How many of you think that it's  stagnating?  How many of you think that it's  declining?  You cannot believe how many  people in the industry raise  their hands and they think it's  still growing.  It peeked in 2005.  It's been declining since and  it's declining at a much more  rapid rate than any of us in the  industry would like to think.  Why is it declining?  And that's something that we  have to examine and it tells us  something.  This is me.  I'm at the tail end of the baby  boomer generation.  And people in my generation and  older are the people who have  been our predominant audiences  in public gardens.  I come from a very strong  educational background in public  gardens. 

 These are the people that I  could set up a symposium or a  class for.  And I could have Dr. Allen  Armitage or Dr. Michael -- or  the big names to all of us.  The people who are writing the  books, I could have them come  in.  And people would flock in.  We'd fill auditoriums.  They'd sit there for two, three  hours in the dark, looking at  slides, oohing and aahing  because these are new plants.  That's been our past audience.  How did they get there?  How did they get interested in  gardening?  This is a group that when they  got into their 40s and their  kids had moved out of the home,  they were looking for something  to do with the home landscape.  These people had some tie to  maybe an agrarian past.  I grew up on a farm. 

 I have strong ties to farming.  Or maybe their mother or  grandmother had a vegetable  garden or did some kind of  gardening.  All of us in this age category  felt we needed that connection  back to our past.  And we started gardening.  We're the ones who did the  English perennial gardens.  We did the great big streams and  ponds and water falls.  We're the ones that got  fascinated over every single new  plant.  We had to have the newest plant  that came out.  We were willing to spend hours  out in the English perennial  border weeding and dividing and  doing all that work.  We were passionate about it. 

 This market, we're losing.  I worked with a specialty  nursery for 10 years and we kept  having clients come to us and  say, we're sorry to tell you  we're moving to assisted living.  We're moving to an apartment.  We're moving to a condo.  We're not going to be here to  buy your high-end quality  product anymore.  It's a declining audience and  we're losing them.  Who's following behind, and I  absolutely love this picture and  I use it for a reason.  Our 30 and 40-year-olds who are  coming up, our X and our Y  generations who are coming up.  And I love that.  Look at that. 

 Doesn't that define this  generation?  The computer, the cell phone,  everything's about technology.  This is our sesame street  generation.  MTV.  They like things fast-paced.  They want things interactive.  They don't want things stagnate.  They're not going to sit in a  dark theatre watching slides.  It's not interactive enough for  them.  And right now this year is the  perfect time to demonstrate this  with the economy and the housing  market the way it is.  They were investing in the home  as their primary investment. 

 And I mean they were investing;  they were to the hilt on their  credit.  Then the two SUVs that sit out  in the yard.  What does that mean?  That means both of them have to  work.  Their free time they do not want  to spend in an English perennial  garden.  Their free time they want to  spend as quality time with the  children because they're both  having to work, they feel guilty  that their not spending enough  time with the kids.  Edutainment becomes a huge word  with these folks.  And they want to spend the time  with the kids.  They don't want to spend it on  some pond that's collecting  algae in the yard.  They want their landscape to be  easy and minimal.  Remember this is the generation  that moved out of the house  before mom and dad started the  gardening. 

 They don't have that same  attachment and memory to it that  mom and dad did.  So it's an entirely different  group of people and we have to  recognize that, we have to  acknowledge it because their  interested in the same things  that we are.  They know who P.  Allen Smith is and they're  willing to watch maybe HGTV.  They're getting their  information from entirely  different sources.  So these are probably some of  the trends, and I've quit  calling them actually trends  now.  I'm calling them concerns.  Because the trends this  generation is interested in are  actually more concerns than  trends.  And you've all seen it.  Madison especially is a market  where we see some of things  very, very early. 

 We're a very green community  here.  What is this generation  interested in if it has anything  to do with plant materials?  Regionalism.  We see this all the time.  There are grocery stores now  that are showing you the  distance that your food came  from.  Because regionalism is very  important.  Organics.  Food safety is a huge issue.  These generations are tired of  us pulling in products that come  from countries that use  pesticides that we have banned.  Because of that interest in the  children and their own health  there's a whole swing about to  the organics.  Green concerns. 

 These are the generations we're  leaving behind the pollution and  the degradation of the  environment.  And they know that they're the  ones that are going to have to  address it.  Quality of product is coming  back, as well, and emphasis on  new.  So they have different concerns  and interests than our past  audiences.  It's happening in the industry  itself as well.  We have to start looking at  things.  Water runoff, pesticides,  energy, recycling.  I have friends at Bailey  Nurseries, which is one of the  largest whole sale nurseries in  the United States in  Minneapolis.  By the end of 2008 their goal  was absolutely everything in  that nursery from the pots to  the water to the products in the  offices were going to be  recycled.  Huge emphasis on how we're using  way too many resources to  produce these products. 

 And how costly it is with the  gas concerns.  So a lot of issues within the  industry, as well, that links  directly to what this next  generation is interested in.  We've seen a huge trend in this,  whereas my garden, my garden  starts at the street and goes  all the way to my very back  product.  I don't have a blade of grass in  it.  This is not what you're finding  people are interested in now.  I found it really interesting  because for about three years I  sat on a judging committee where  all of the different landscape  companies could submit projects  that they had done for awards in  various price categories.  In only that three year time  period, I saw designs that were  put out there for those awards  go from predominately  plant-based landscapes to  predominately what we call  hardscape.  They were all getting bricked  in.  What we were seeing, you've seen  it, great big stainless steel  grills.  It's about outdoor kitchens,  outdoor living rooms. 

 You can find outdoor living room  furniture right now that costs  more than what you put in your  living room?  It's a really big trend right  now.  Why?  Two things that I found.  One is that because these people  are putting such a huge  investment in the house, they  saw that as an extension of that  investment in the house.  To make the outdoor living  space, as well.  One thing that kept coming up  though that I found really  interesting and I hadn't thought  about because when he submitted  these thing for award you had to  tell what your client wanted and  how you met those needs.  Time and time again we heard the  client say, we're concerned  about where our children are and  if we do this and have this  outdoor area that's a living  area our kids will have their  friends there and we know where  they are.  Sort of a sign of the times.  But we have to recognize that's  what happening.  So all of the sudden we're  talking about backyards and  outdoor living spaces that don't  have much to do with plant  materials.  Look at this, I mean, this is  the route that it's been going. 

 Now where is this trend going to  continue with the economic  downturn and the whole  investment in housing?  We don't know.  And that's why we have to  continually watch what are the  trends.  Here's a huge one for anyone in  education be in, the cooperative  extension, the university,  public garden, we're finding  we're being replaced by the  whole virtual gardening.  People are going, and God help  them, are going online for their  information.  And not that that isn't a useful  tool but I can't tell you how  many sites I've been on that are  giving inaccurate information,  they might be much more limiting  and this is taking place of  people, of experts that are  teaching us.  You see the big thing now is  long distance learning and  learning from a computer.  That's a big change that we have  to recognize we're designing by  computer.  It's amazing.  This is now probably not big  news to any of you that garden  actually container gardening has  very hot.  It's been a big trend. 

 Again, it's something to  recognize though.  And as we try to reach this new  audience and get them interested  in plant materials, this is a  good thing to know because it  might be more willing to work  with a few containers if we can  get them to get some containers  and put a few tomatoes or  something that they see as  useful and we can bring them  back to some of these plant  materials.  And the containers and the whole  trend in containers has gotten  really fun.  Wild and funky.  We're doing things with  containers nobody would have  thought of even a few years ago.  We're putting perennials and  trees and shrubs that you'll see  at Allen Centennial Gardens.  We've been doing that for a  number of years.  Succulents are big.  This audience likes the new,  they like interesting.  So again, if we can attract them  with this because it's so funky  and cool for that house they've  invested in that's another way  to bring that in. 

 We do everything in containers  now.  A whole entire shade garden in a  container.  It doesn't have to be a about  sun.  That's nothing but coleus there.  It's an entire garden of coleus  in containers.  We call it the do-it-for-me  generation.  What they're interested in, and  this is the actual growing  segment of our industry right  now.  You should have seen it when I  was working down in --, Chicago  Botanic, you saw more of these  trucks on the road than anything  else.  Because this generation wants it  easy.  They want a yard and a landscape  that they don't have to worry  about on the weekends and they  want somebody else to do it for  them. 

 So that's what we call the  do-it-for-me generation.  They want these folks to do that  so they have time to do this.  And you can't blame them.  People's time is more and more  precious these days and there's  less and less free relaxation  time.  I'm glad to see this.  I call it hip to be home grown.  There's a real interest in  growing your own food again.  And I think that's significant.  In fact, I've just joined with  Olbrich Botanical Gardens and  we've pulled together a  symposium that will be held on  February 19th, and the emphasis  is a lot of this kitchen  gardening, organics, turning the  front lawn into a more useful  area with beds and  sustainability and water issues  and, again, we have to start  attracting some of the younger  audiences and some of the  concerns in the industry.  So you'll see a lot in food  products. 

 In fact, the entire terrace that  we have at Allen Centennial  Gardens where people come and  sit and eat during the day, I've  instructed my designers it's  all going to be ornamental  edibles next year.  >> Just like --  >> What's that?  >> Like --  >> That's right.  So when you come and you have  your lunch there next year,  every single plant and the  containers that are surrounding  you will not only be ornamental  they'll also be edible in some  way.  And it's a big trend now and it  needs to be and it's a great  trend because we do need to get  back to food safety.  Some of the trends I don't think  are really working that we've  seen in public gardens.  And you probably have all seen.  Every garden trying to attract  that younger audience, what are  they doing?  They're all building what we  call children's gardens.  I see limited success in them.  There's a real effort to make,  and there's some really big  ones.  Frederic Meyers is five acres. 

 The Morton just put in a seven  acre one.  The problem is it's very  difficult to make it so there's  a different experience every  time those kids come in.  It's really not like a theme  park and I'm not sure we're  getting the message across  there.  Horticulture therapy is big and  that's going to affect myself  and all of us that are leaving.  There's just not yet enough real  technical expertise in it.  But the hospitals are starting  to grab a hold of this.  We're finding out there's all  kinds of therapeutic uses of  plant materials.  So you're going to see this  continue to be a trend.  The whole planting in sweeps,  and all of us were doing that  for a long time.  And we're starting to see an end  to that where we just to massive  sweeps of sort of the same  plant. 

 Our new American garden is done  in that style.  And a lot of exotic plants  that's been really big.  I like this whole new surge of  interest in succulents right  now.  That's a big trend that's been  going on, as well.  But what are we going to look at  in the next 10 to 20 years?  What will be the trends?  And there's the things I've been  mentioning.  Food safety.  How local is it grown.  Right now in the Madison market  there's more demand for farmers  markets than we have in vendors  to support them.  And that says something about  what this market's looking at.  They want fresh, locally grown  produce. 

 Heirlooms are big.  Three years ago down at Rotary  we decided to do this thing  where we planted 100 different  heirloom tomatoes.  And we thought oh, God, we're  going to have all these  tomatoes, we should do something  with them.  So what we did is we have a  festival, we called it Tomato  Fest afterwards, and all kinds  of activities and tastings and  things.  We were so inundated with people  it blew us away.  We weren't prepared.  We couldn't have possibly  expected the number of people  that came in and were interested  in it, and they've been doing  something with heirloom plants  ever since.  Our new audiences are really  looking at that.  It's important to them.  Sustainability. 

 Huge word these days.  There's not one of us that  hasn't heard this.  It's just one of those words you  hear over and over again.  And there's a reason for it.  Environmental concerns more and  more all along are becoming big  issues for us.  And when I was talking about the  sweeps before.  We're going away from that.  And in trends you're going to  see us going back more to what  we call plant communities.  We're trying to diversify our  plant materials.  You may have multiples all in  one area but they won't be done  in sweeps. 

 That's a monoculture.  Instead we're going to start  integrating plant materials and  make plant communities and get  some diversity in the insects  and organisms.  >> Are you seeing much in the  terms of urban gardening?  >> Absolutely.  And you'll see a lot of the  major gardens like Chicago  Botanic and Cleveland Botanical,  many of those are actually  developing entire segments and  programming units that will say  urban horticulture.  That whole segment of their  business will be involved in  urban horticulture.  That's a huge trend.  So these are the kinds of things  that we have to recognize are  coming and we need to address.  Actually one of my speakers for  the symposium I just told about,  I feel blessed that I managed to  lure him out of LA and address  this.  He wrote a book, his name is  Fritz Haeg, he wrote a book  called Edible Estates: Attack on  the Front Lawn.  And I'm not going to go into all  the details but we here in the  Midwest ought to really be  attune to the issues of the  American garden, which is turf,  and the front lawn and the types  of issues it is creating. 

 It doesn't matter whether you're  in Hawaii, Alaska, Maine, Texas,  South Carolina.  What is the one thing we all  have to have in the landscape is  turf.  And we're finally understanding  how dangerous that has been.  The chemicals we're using are  killing soils.  We're polluting the environment.  One lawnmower produces as much  pollution as six cars.  I mean, all the issues.  And I say we here in the Midwest  because what it the rest of the  country looking at that we sit  on?  Our Great Lakes and the water  issues and enormous amount of  water that lawns create.  So he wrote a book that's  showing how there's an  alternative.  He's not advocating take away  all your lawns. 

 But the idea is take your front  lawn or part of your lawn and do  something with it.  And there's things like raised  beds and growing your own food.  And, again, I think this is  going to appeal to our upcoming  audience.  This is one of the demonstration  gardens that he built in  Pasadena that I photographed  this year.  And I kind of had to go on  either side so you can see it.  But what he did here is this  half is the traditional American  front lawn with turf.  I would probably put a few -- in  to make it really believable and  then the alternative uses.  And they've been doing  experiments and showing how on  this side the soils are  literally dying and all of the  pollution issues.  And they're actually using some  of these demonstration plots  around the country to  demonstrate what we are doing  with that fascination with the  front lawn.  Here you can see the other  direction, the lawn versus  alternative uses of that space. 

 So we have to start addressing  those things.  So when I've also came back, I  decided, well, what is the role  of a public garden and a  university setting?  It really is different than a  lot of other public gardens.  And I feel the role of Allen  Centennial Gardens is going to  be different than the role of  Olbrich Botanical Gardens.  You can compare two right in the  same town.  And what will be the needs and  vision that I'm going to be  needing to address in the next  10 to 20 years.  Well, we have some real issues  to begin with that are a  challenge.  One of them is parking.  And of course, anytime that I  say come in a see the gardens  the first objection I get is  there's no place to park on  campus. And I'm not sure  how we're ever going  to fully solve that issue.  I think a lot of it is just  going to be marketing to when  you can come that parking is not  the issue.  And letting them know that  there's metered parking. 

 The size.  It's interesting in some ways  there's days I go out and I  think two and a half acres, this  isn't nearly enough to do all  the things that I want to do,  and, of course, then there's  other days when I think oh my  God, two and a half acres, how  am I going to get all of this  done.  But it could be limited to all  kinds of other things.  And I am landlocked.  There's no way around it.  I can't grow any direction so I  have to keep aware of that.  Lack of facilities.  I don't have a building.  I can't teach classes or do many  of the things that public  gardens do.  Gift shops and various things  because I don't have those  facilities. 

 Budget, of course.  I'm trying to raise all of my  own money there.  Staffing.  Very limited staffing.  And a lot of structural problems  which I will be showing you, as  well.  One of the things I just  mentioned.  I've already started a  partnership with Olbrich but one  of the things that I think Allen  Centennial Gardens can do is  join with other organizations  here in Madison.  We are rich in horticultural  organizations and businesses.  And so one of the things I'm  going to be doing over the next  couple of years is trying to  reach out and hopefully get all  of us to start connecting more,  each of us concentrating on what  are our strengths and then  helping each other pull in  people and provide educational  for what each of us are  strongest at.  We are very fortunate, I don't  know how many people realize how  fortunate we are. 

 It's a 20-year-old garden.  And I'm sorry after 20 years  there's going to be  deterioration, there's going to  be gardens that need  rejuvenated.  It simply happens.  The plant materials may not be  the -- that we need to be  showing our public.  Things have overgrown.  And one of first things I did  when I came is I was running  through with a chain saw.  I think a scared the devil out  of a lot of people.  And you'll see even in the next  year a fair amount of changes  simply from that.  And there are areas that really  need rejuvenation.  I showed this. 

 We'll go back, I showed  specifically because our  woodland garden is one area that  really, really needs attention.  Most of the plants you see in  there are weeds.  This is my shade garden that I  developed.  This is the kind of thing that  we need to be showing the public  that they need to do.  Just to show you the comparison.  I want to get more plant    materials in there.  I want to get away from these  great big drifts of a few  plants.  Get more variety because there  are so many plant materials out  there.  We live in a time period where  propagation has gotten us to  such a point that even we in the  industry cannot keep up with all  the new plants.  So we need to be showing people  this vast and huge array of  plant materials if we're going  to, again, stimulate them and  get them interested in putting  them into their own yards. 

 You'll find additions.  We just built a new crevice  garden.  Many of you probably don't know  when you walk through that rock  garden it actually has  components.  Six different types of rock  garden from alpine to sand  bed, and this is a garden we  just built, we'll be planting it  in the spring, it's called a  crevice garden.  Because there are plants that  are adapted very specifically to  growing in crevices, and that's  the only place they'll grow.  So watch that garden grow this  next year.  I've got to do some fundraising.  Again, all of the money that I  spend in that garden, I've got  to raise that money.  There's some real structural  damage.  And that's not to be unexpected  after 20 years. 

 Walls and structures, paths all  of those things start to  deteriorate in that time.  And if you walk through and  you're at all aware, you've seen  some of this.  And it's going to take a fair  amount of money to fix all those  things.  I have a lot of things I have to  tackle that are beyond the scope  of my current budget.  I'm going to have try to raise  funds in various ways at a point  in time when money is actually  tightening up.  But we'll do it through things  like grants.  We won't do a capital campaign  this year, we're not that  foolish.  But some time down the line  there might be a capital  campaign.  And all the various ways, again  one of the reason I was sitting  through a fundraising workshop  today.  The thing that I also have to  pay attention to is I know am a  director with new vision and  roles. 

 There needs to be more active  marketing.  There has never been real active  marketing.  There hasn't been truly active  fundraising.  I need to add staff.  None of this is going to be  accomplished if I can't raise  the funds to do that.  I maybe called director but I'm  still going to be a head  gardener.  I'm going to be out there  running around not accomplishing  any of those goals.  So the fundraising is going to  be very critical.  If I can't raise enough funds to  add staff it's a glorified name.  And I'm very well aware of that. 

 We hope to increase educational  opportunities.  It's a teaching garden.  And I think the garden, and  nothing against the past growth  of it, but I think we've strayed  a little bit away from that.  We need to get it back to that  being our main emphasis.  Most public gardens will tell  you their first and foremost  audience is the public.  Our first and foremost audience  has to be the student and the  university because of where we  sit.  Obviously we're there for the  public but it cannot be as much  emphasis as it is for the  university and the students.  We have to address what are the  new needs, what are the new  concerns.  I want to look into  horticultural therapy.  It's a big thing. 

 And if plants have these healing  powers, and again our declining  audience is going to look to us  for a lot of that kind of new  research and innovation.  I have to increase our PR  marketing.  I can't believe how many guides  to Madison I have picked up and  Allen Centennial Gardens is not  in those guides.  But, again, we've have nobody to  actively do PR marking for us.  I have short range goals and I  have long range goals.  Short range, I put capital  campaign before we really got  into this.  And I won't see a capital  campaign right away but I do  have to start fundraising.  Because, as I say there, even  with a capital campaign it takes  18 months to get one off the  ground.  So I have to start the process  of finding ways to fund raise.  I want to research more ways to  do that whether it's also  through grants and foundations  and explore other revenue  generating things for the garden  so we can increase the budget  for the gardens. 

 I've started the rejuvenation  process.  I put in, and keep in mind this  is whole sale prices, $4,000  worth of new trees and shrubs.  You come over in the spring,  you'll be amazed because some of  them are very sizable that I put  in.  We are rejuvenating as we can  and can afford different  gardens.  I want to expand my labor force,  I have to do that.  So I'm doing an improved  volunteer program.  My volunteers now will actually  go through classes.  We're going to go on some garden  tours.  Things to really make that is  strong volunteer program.  I want to develop a new master  plan. 

 It's time for that.  And some strategic planning and  get involved in partnership  opportunities.  Already there's one event that  I'm doing with Olbrich I think  is putting the gardens into the  forefront that we wouldn't be in  otherwise.  And then long-term I do want, I  think we have a great  opportunity here in with the  university setting to provide  some direction for other  organizations in town for all of  us to develop partnerships and  expand what we can do for the  state in horticultural  education.  So that's a goal for me  long-term.  I want to make the gardens even  more valuable to the university.  There are more people I think,  that can utilize it than just  horticulture and botany  students.  I want to get music into the  gardens.  I want to get art into the  gardens.  There are things we can do to  expand and make it even more  useful to the university itself. 

 I want to add staff.  The people that I am currently  sitting in the house with  probably don't appreciate that  but my long range goal is I  think the house needs to be part  of garden too.  And that won't happen, as far as  I'm concerned, until I get a  major donor that's willing to  step forward and say, hey I want  to put my name on this and let's  make it some integrated part of  the garden.  It's a long range plan.  So that's a little bit of the  history of the gardens.  Some of the goals that I have  for it, some of the vision.  So you can all sit back.  You're probably close enough  linked to the gardens themselves  that you can watch my progress.  When my friends joke with me  about it being two and a half  acres and me being the only  employee, I said the good thing  is it's all me.  Of course, the bad thing is it's  all me. 

 If I accomplish my goals, it's  going to look great, and if I  don't accomplish them, you're  all going to know who's  responsible.  So thank you, everybody, and I'm  certainly more than willing to  entertain any questions that you  might have.  [APPLAUSE]  Yes, in the back?  >> Is there bicycle parking?  >> There is a bicycle rack right  across the street from the gate  to the gardens.  And so, yes.  Bicycling is certainly a great  way to get to the gardens.  Especially since we sit right  off of a bicycle path.  Yes?  >> Do you get any donations from  garden clubs in town?  >> We do.  In fact, one of the student  internships we had this year was  fully supported by a garden  club.  And garden clubs and plant  societies are very instrumental  in making donations.  So it's not just the clubs it's  even all of our local societies  we have, as well. 

 And we have a fair number of  them here in town.  Yes?  >> With the country being in a  financial crisis it seems a  formidable job to try to raise  money.  I know I get everyday  solicitations from one  foundation after another.  So my heart and sympathy goes  out to you because you have such  a wonderful mission and yet  you're bucking the times of  financial crisis.  >> And one of the things to keep  in mind and especially in times  like this, I define us as a  different type of not for  profit, as well.  And it gets really quite  difficult for us because we are  what I call a quote unquote  luxury not-for-profit.  We're not perceived the same way  as what I would call  not-for-profit in need.  Your boys and girls clubs, your  shelters, your food pantries.  Those are the types of  organizations, boy, when they're  in need, they're in need.  And we all need to support them. 

 We look at something like a  public garden and we think  that's a luxury; it's probably  something we don't necessarily  need.  And we don't need to get in back  of and support.  And, unfortunately, that's not  true.  Because we all need our green  space.  We all need that type of  situation to walk into.  We need it for our own education  if you're gardening at home.  One story I do tell is I was at  Chicago Botanic for 9/11.  As you may all recall, they shut  down every single public place  in Chicago because at that time  they thought the Sears Towers  were targeted.  We were the only public museum  or public place that stayed  open.  And we were outside of the city  in Glencoe, so that helped. 

 I watched that day, I saw a  massive, massive outpouring of  people who came into that  gardens from every culture,  every background you could  possibly imagine.  They were all coming into that  garden because we were in such  turmoil they needed to get into  a setting where they could  actually go in and feel some  kind of solace, some kind of  respite from what was going on  around them.  So I think so many times we  forget that those greens spaces,  things like our public parks and  public gardens we don't think  they need the same kind of  support.  And I, obviously, do not believe  that.  We need them as much part of our  community as anything else we're  supporting.  For the good of everybody.  Yes?  >> Do you have now fruit and  vegetables in the garden  already?  >> We do and there's one row of  some small fruits.  We even have cranberries because  that's such an important crop to  Wisconsin.  We have a vegetable garden.  Part of some of these gardens  are also so that students in  particular departments can use  them. 

 We have are a small orchard for  the palynology students.  The small fruits the same way.  The veg crop students will use  our vegetable garden.  So we do have some of that, yes.  Question here?  >> How do you recruit your  non-student volunteers?  What's the key?  >> Right now I'm basically  advertising through many of the  plant society.  That's one the best places to  get people because you know  they're already interested.  There's several reasons why  people want to volunteer in a  public garden.  One is, of course, they want to  advance their own horticulture  education and some of them it  might even be for some  experience because we have  younger volunteers, as well.  But there's also a degree of  connection.  They want to be connected to the  people in those gardens. 

 My director of horticulture down  at Rotary Gardens, he is so well  respected by his volunteers he  has an entire volunteer force  that, I swear to God, are there  because of their connection to  Mark.  And it's building those kinds of  relationships and those kinds of  connections.  They're not looking just for  work to do.  They're not even just looking  for the education.  They're also looking for social  outlet interaction so master  gardener programs, I'm certainly  advertising through there.  That program they're actually  required to do a certain amount  of work for their certification.  So any way that I can I'm trying  to get the word out that we need  volunteers, that we're building  a really strong volunteer  program there.  And that's one of the reason,  too, why what I'm trying to do  is add to that program.  I'm already teaching classes in  different places.  I've got them all set, why not  give them to my volunteers. 

 In fact, they're going to start  here shortly every other week  where they're going to come in  and I've had them select the  different topic that I teach and  they're going to come in and  we're going to do that for them.  You've got to build in some  other activity and interest.  You just don't have them come  in, put in their labor and say  they're going to be completely  satisfied because they're  learning something in the  process too.  There's a lot that goes into  building a good volunteer  program.  And it's not sometimes as  difficult to get the volunteers  as it is to then retain them, as  well.  And that's where the personal  connection really comes in.  I think there was another  question up in back.  Ladies first.  >> I have sort of an odd  question.  You mentioned research projects  that are going on in various  places to where they're  comparing a standard lawn with a  --. 

 [INAUDIBLE]  And has a variety of  different kinds of yards and if  anybody in this area is looking  for a research project I think  we could help them find some  very interesting comparisons in  different yards very near here.  >> You know, I would expect we  might start seeing horticultural  students interested in such  things as projects.  I met a gentleman who started a  national not-for-profit  organization called Safe Lawn.  He was actually in the chemical  business and his business was to  apply lawn chemicals until he  found out he had such severe  allergic reactions he almost  died from using those chemicals.  And he's trying to show and  demonstrate but one of the  places he's doing that he  actually managed to talk our  federal government into giving  him one of the squares on  library mall and it took a lot  to do that.  And he's turning it organic and  showing people that turf organic  can still be better and tolerate  traffic and be a better lawn  than it is with chemicals.  After one year, they're only  giving him two years to  accomplish this goal, every  chemical company out there is  lobbying and trying to shut him  down on it.  He has a shot from the air and  there is one bright green  square.  So it can be done and it should  be done.  And I think we will. 

 I think as we become more aware  of what, and you're talking to  somebody who coming from an  ornamental horticulture  background and an agricultural  background.  I've used more chemicals than  you can imagine.  I've defended many of these  chemicals for the longest time.  And I'm not saying that we will  go completely chemical free.  There's certain places where if  we use them judiciously they're  going to work for us.  The problem is we haven't been,  the standard American says,  okay, this is the amount that it  says to mix so twice that's  better.  And we don't realize all the  research that went in to say  that was the amount that makes  it most effective.  So a lot of the abuse of  chemicals certainly hasn't  helped either.  But we'll keep that in mind.  And it might even be something  to go to the horticulture  department and say if you've got  students that are looking for  some kind of research project,  think about this. 

 Especially if you have a  neighborhood where it would  work.  Yes?  >> I'm a nurse and watching the  trends in hospitals from the  early 20th century when you have  TB hospitals out in the country  where outdoor sunshine, fresh  air and gardens were a big part  of the healing process.  Then we got away from that, but  even urban hospitals I think  usually had a courtyard garden  where patients in wheelchairs or  beds could be moved out.  And even here in Madison the old  children's hospital that was  near Penny Hall.  Penny Hall has beautiful  gardens.  They had a courtyard where all  the rooms opened outside.  You could move them out.  And then what happened is, and  I've seen this in many parts of  the country, you build big  hospitals like the ones we have  now, massive obstructions taking  away the views and patient rooms  look out onto a bare gravel  roof.  There's no access to the  outdoors and I don't feel people  can heal in that environment.  >> Isn't that a revelation, put  somebody in a gorgeous garden  and they might heal better. 

 >> It's not that far from the  hospital, partnership with the  hospital to somehow show them  how they can put plants on the  roofs or bring birds there or  something to show how restore  access to the fresh air.  >> Exactly.  What's interesting, that I have  found, is that where we haven't  been able to convince the  hospitals to do it for patients  they have discovered that as  much as it's a healing process  for patients, it actually works  extremely well for the families  that are sitting with patients  that are in long-term care.  And a lot of hospitals suddenly  start putting them on because  they found that to be the reason  to do it which I think is odd.  They overlooked the fact,  there's research out there that  shows that Alzheimer's patients  can negotiate in a garden based  on fragrances that they remember  from the past.  I mean, we're only just starting  to really understand how these  gardens can really be helpful  and useful.  And certainly with the hospitals  we have here in town, when I can  get on top of things and  hopefully have more staff, I  think we should be partnering  with them and saying what are  you doing.  And you'll see an awful lot of  the newer hospitals that are  going up are addressing that.  Unfortunately, they're not  putting a lot of resources into  it.  Some of these areas are too  small, too limited. 

 But at least they're starting to  make a start in recognizing  that.  >> Prince Charles in England  started something like that  20-30 years ago.  He was considered a little odd  and different from his family  but he spoke to that and was  instrumental in creating gardens  in the hospitals.  >> He shows up at many of sort  of big plant conferences and  talks about that.  And, in many cases, where  gardening is concerned, the  Europeans have been generations  and centuries in advance on us  anyway.  >> [INAUDIBLE]  In hospitals stay  is too expensive and in some  other community homes.  >> Well, actually an awful lot.  >> [INAUDIBLE]  >> But there's a  lot of like assisted living  situations and people are  putting in gardens.  They're recognizing the  importance of that.  Another, and this sort of is  related to it, is a fascinating  study that they did down in  Chicago. 

 And these were in some of the  really bad neighborhoods.  And they did a study just based  on trees.  And whether apartment complexes  and sort of the low-income  housing had trees on their  property or not.  They showed significant,  significant results of children  growing up in environments where  there were even just a few trees  around the complex of less crime  than those that didn't have.  I mean, we start taking nature  away and we don't realize how  much that's also affecting us  socially and culturally.  >> [INAUDIBLE]  >> Actually the  research station out in west  Madison produces an organic mix  that does have manure in it so  that helps utilize some of the  waste products from the farms,  yes.  >> Do you have any relationship  or plan to work with the city of  Madison parks?  >> Repeat the question.  >> He wants to know if we have  any relationship or plans to  work with the parks department.  It's always a possibility.  They're on such a large scale. 

 Of course, Olbrich is a city  park.  It's a possibility.  Where I want to work closest  first though are with  organizations that are actually  providing horticultural  education.  Because that's my big emphasis  is how can we provide, resources  are drying up for our green  industry, for our public all  across the state of Wisconsin.  We've lost a lot of  horticultural products here in  the state.  We've got to be able to start  helping our industry find  products that we can market quit  losing.  So a lot of my focus is going to    probably be a lot more on the  educational aspect of that.  Which I think a university's  role should be.  Yes?  >> Who supervises and guides  all of your students  and volunteers?  You do it all?  >> That's why I say I have got  to, my goal is I do have to  start raising enough money.  My money, basically my budget  comes from an endowment and I to  have to increase that endowment  to the point where I can start  adding on other staff or I won't  be doing anything other than the  head gardener. 

 You can tell I'm very optimistic  or I wouldn't have taken the  position.  And I think it can be done.  You mentioned the challenges of  trying to get people to donate.  The key is finding somebody who  that is their passion.  And there will be people out  there that will say you know  what?  I really agree with that.  One of the things that I want to  build, the next garden that I  actually would like to build is  what I call sort of a home  demonstration garden.  And I already bought a compost  maker.  I wanted to have a compost  maker.  We wanted to do worm castings.  Let's do rain barrels. 

 And turn the garden itself as  organic and sustainable as we  can using these products but, at  the same time, make that an area  where the public can come in,  see what we're doing and learn  from us as well.  And I firmly believe, somebody  is going to see, I'm going to  present that to somebody and  they're going to say this is  perfect.  I want to be on board with this.  So I'm not concerned.  I think if the things we want to  put in there, the changes we  want to make link up with  somebody else's passion, it's  going to happen.  >> Some of the things that are  happening around town that we're  hardly even aware of.  I'm thinking of the hospice  center down in Fitchburg which  has absolutely beautiful gardens  and trails.  And also I'd like to bring up  our church on Old Sauk Road has  developed a gardening program  which they're growing vegetables  and all kinds of foods and then  using it as an instruction for  the Lexford bridge children to  come over and learn about  gardening and how things work.  And actually the congregation is  getting some national attention  just in this particular program.  >> And the hospice care, I mean,  they have a full time gardener. 

 That's how important it is to  them.  And they're building gardens  there that will probably rival  any public gardens.  They're doing a wonderful job.  They're doing it practically  with no money and a lot of  donations.  And if you have an opportunity  to go, they welcome you to go in  and see their gardens.  They're doing a wonderful job  there.  And we have to be innovative.  We have to find ways to make  this interesting, educational.  Cleveland Botanical Gardens has  probably one of the best youth  programs I have ever heard of.  They have four different gardens  that are in these low-income  areas. 

 And I've always, I ran a  children's garden when I was at  Olbrich and the challenge always  was you bring these kids in, you  give them six weeks with the  program, you think you're doing  so much by connecting them to  the earth.  The problem is they leave that  program as a summer activity and  what did they really take away  with it?  Well, you hope you're reaching  them but in reality you're  probably not reaching a large  number of them.  What Cleveland Botanical does is  they take it a step further.  They actually worked with a  restaurateur in town and he    helped them develop a salsa that  is their product.  They take the produce, they take  it to farmers markets and sell  it.  They're producing a salsa and  now they're on I think a pesto.  They're selling 10,000 jars of  this in local grocery stores.  So it's not just connecting them  to the earth and plant materials  but it's teaching them skills  later in life as far as know how  to do business and how to make a  career out of it.  So I think we've got to keep  looking and see how much more  far reaching can we make this.  It's not as simple as just  having somebody come in, play in  the dirt for a while and think  we've made a major impact on  them. 

 >> [INAUDIBLE]  >> It does.  But we need to even take it a  step further.  Our national public garden  conference that was two or three  years ago in San Francisco.  And the woman who was our  keynote speaker was in charge of  all of the state parks in  California.  You want to talk about  fundraising, she's planning to  raising a $20 billion endowment  because she knows their money is  drying up and they can't count  on state and federal support  anymore.  But she started this, and keep  in mind there's 650 people from  botanic gardens from all over  the country.  And she started her keynote talk  by saying the environmental  moment is dead.  Yeah, that's the reaction she  got too.  We're all sitting there thinking  where in the world did they get  this woman?  And she's addressing us.  Her point was though, and it's a  great point and I think we can  all relate to it, it wasn't that  many years ago we went through  this energy crisis and we knew  what we were doing globally and  degrading our ecosystem. 

 And we were told there were  things we could do individually.  We put bricks in our toilets.  We didn't drive as much.  We car pooled.  We turned our lights off.  We thought we were doing  something.  In recent years, because of  media and because things are  really bad and we are degrading  very rapidly, we've all gotten  to the point where we don't  think we can do that anymore.  We feel useless, we feel  helpless.  We think you know what, it  doesn't matter to put the brick  in the toilet because it's going  so quickly we can't do anything  about it.  That was her point. 

 And she's right.  She said we're trying to do it  on too broad and too large a  scale.  And her point was key to this  whole thing is getting the kids,  the youth back connected somehow  to the earth.  And making sure they know the  importance.  Now I'm very optimistic about  our upcoming college generation.  Many of these students, they  know what we're leaving behind  and they're not particularly  happy with us and nor should  they be.  Many of them are choosing  businesses on how green the  businesses are.  And I'm very optimistic that  they're going to get more  connected.  But we've got to help them get  connected as well and show them  the importance or we are  spinning off course and not in a  very good way.  In the back. 

 >> I think of the obesity  dilemma and epidemic and  children learning how to eat.  Not everything comes out a  McDonald's wrapper.  But if it comes out of the earth  and they learn like the church  on Old Sauk that they can eat  the things that they've grown  and they can take some home to  their families and they can grow  some of those things on the  ground outside.  >> The children's garden that I  ran when I was at Olbrich, one  of the things that fascinated me  most was, one, the kids don't  know what half those vegetables  were that were out there.  And two, they started eating  them.  And we had parents come and say  our kids never ate vegetables  before.  But because they were growing  them, they were connected to  them, they had a whole different  perspective.  In fact, I started a deal where  we actually bought each kid a  great big pot, put soil and a  tomato plant in because I  thought if we're going to carry  this out, and instructions for  the parents on how to take care  of this.  Because I thought if the kids  take it home they don't wont to  see this thing die, this is  their plant.  The parents are going to have to  get involved and help them grow  this thing out too. 

 So maybe we can start making  some of that connection.  And don't get me wrong.  I'm not putting down children's  gardens.  They're wonderful things.  But I still think we have a long  ways to go because it takes so  much labor.  If it's not real hands-on a lot  of these new children's gardens  you sort of wind your self  through and they're sort of  self-guided and there's nothing  that beats hands-on instruction,  getting those kids down there  and having them grow a plant  that they call their own.  Nothing beats that.  There's another question here.  >> I had heard of an Israeli  architect who designed the  prototype building, a big  apartment building where each  apartment would have it's old  garden.  I don't know if it's on  balconies or what. 

 And the first prototype is to be  built in China.  But I would like to know more  about that, where if a garden  like yours could show how that's  done.  >> It's probably beyond the  scale of what we can do  over there.  >> [INAUDIBLE]  >> This is a  place where Olbrich needs to  show some leadership because I  don't have the room to do that  in buildings.  You can go to Chicago and find  buildings with what they now  call living walls, plant  materials growing right up the  walls.  Mayor Daley was the first person  in the history of our national  public garden organization to  win our top medal of honor in 50  years who was not a  horticulturist.  They gave him the medal because  Chicago is so forward-thinking  and he made them put a rooftop  garden on city hall.  Well, half of the building is  city hall, half is something.  The other half didn't want it.  So there's half of that building  over city hall and it's made for  great research. 

 They can show the extremes and  temperatures and what it's doing  with heating and cooling.  They didn't think so at the time  they were kind of resentful that  the other half didn't let them  do it.  But now they found it's great  for research.  You'll see a lot of modern  architects are trying, how do we  develop green buildings and how  do we make them truly green.  It's funny, I listen to an awful  lot of the commercials, not to  pick on any companies in  particular but some of the our  big box companies that are  telling us that they're  producing green buildings and  when you really go down through  what they're calling green, it's  a long, long ways from green.  But you will.  You're going to see a lot of  architectural and landscape  architecture coming together  because it is an issue.  And there's some pretty  fascinating things that are  happening around the countryside  with construction.  Some of it works, some of it  doesn't.  But at least we're trying. 

 In the back corner.  >> The -- here is that?  >> It's going to be right at  Olbrich.  If you go to Olbrich's website,  there will be a link on it right  now and it will show you all  four of the speakers.  One woman is the author, she's  from Granville, Ohio, she's the  author of Designing the New  Kitchen Garden.  Her name is Jennifer Bartley.  I've got Mark Dwyer who is my  director of horticulture down at  the Rotary Gardens, phenomenal  speaker.  He's going to talk about  ornamental edibles.  He's done a lot with that.  I have Fritz Haeg coming in from  LA.  Janet Macunovich is out of the  Detroit area. 

 She's going to talk on local  color and, again, the whole idea  of using plant materials that  are more local to produce color  in the garden.  And then my fifth and final  speaker is David Cavagnaro and  he's from Decorah, Iowa.  He worked for Seed Savers  Exchange for 13 years.  He's going to talk on heirloom  plants.  He's taken a 3-acre property,  turned the entire property into  an edible state which he's now  in the process of making into a  501C not-for-profit that he's  going to open up to people.  So I think really a number of  authors and some really good  people from around the country  to help us get our hands around  this type of thinking.  I invite all of you, go to  Olbrich's website and look at it  and join us.  Thank you, so much everybody.  (APPLAUSE)