cc  >> Welcome back to  Entrepreneurialism in Society.  This is a course that's offered  through the University  of Wisconsin  School of Human Ecology.  As we begin, I'd like to extend  thanks to our partners  in supporting this course.  The UW Office of Corporate  Relations, the UW College of  Engineering for their technical  support and financial support  from the Marion Ewing Kaufman  Foundation which is committed to  advancing academic education  in Entrepreneurialism.  Additionally, we'd like to thank  our media partners, Wisconsin  Public Television and their  University Place crew for taping  today's lecture.  Today I'm very pleased to  introduce our special guest,  Milanie Cleere, President and  Chief Executive Officer of Oompa  Enterprises.  Milanie has a terrific story to  share about how she developed  the concept for Oompa.  But in introducing her, I will  offer that Oompa Toys was  founded in 2004 as a family held  California Corporation.  In May of 2007, Milanie moved  both the company and her family  to Madison, Wisconsin to expand  her organization.  Oompa Toys carries a mix of  wooden toys that proudly claim  "no batteries, no blinking  lights, and no cartoon themes."  The toys included soft dolls,  play food, ball tracks, play  mats and other high quality  wooden toys. 

 The organization offers fair and  competitive prices and strives  for exceptional customer  satisfaction.  Please join me in welcoming  Milanie as we ask her to share  her thoughts on  Entrepreneurialism and  Developing Alternative Product  Lines.  >> Thank you so much.  It is an absolute pleasure to be  here.  If I seem a little tired it's  because I've been working about  16 hour days opening Oompa's  first retail store.  But again, it is a pleasure to  be here.  So that introduction was fairly  concise.  Oompa Toys was founded by myself  in Los Angeles, California in  2004.  The story is pretty simple.  I was a stay at home mom for  about a year. 

 I tried really hard to be a stay  at home mom.  But around the time my daughter  was a year old, I decided that I  wanted to get back into the  workforce.  And it was around that time that  we took her to Italy which, when  you guys have kids, I don't  necessarily recommend taking a  toddler on a twelve hour plane  ride, it's really difficult.  But when we got there she  started throwing a tantrum in  San Marco Square in Venice and  we were yelled at by people in  Italian who thought we were  abusing our daughter because she  wouldn't stop crying.  And we went to a toy store, we  bought here some very basic  toys, and they calmed her down.  And that was an epiphany, that  we gave her some very basic  wooden blocks, a wooden pull  toy, and she was entranced.  So, I went back to Los Angeles,  took these toys home and moms  would come over and say "wow,  these are great toys.  Where did you get them?"  And I would say "I got them in  Italy.  I got some on a layover when we  passed through Germany."  And the more I looked around,  the more I realized that it was  hard to find unique and natural  toys.  I mean it's really easy to find  plastic, battery operated toys  at Toys R' Us, Walmart and  Target, but some of these more  unique toys were difficult to  find at the time. 

 So I decided that there could be  a business in offering these  online.  So I decided to start Oompa  Toys.  I'm skipping ahead a little bit  here.  So today, Oompa Enterprises  Incorporated is the parent  company of Oompa Toys,  located at Oompa.com  and Atomic Baby, which is a  brand that I just launched.  So again, we specialize in  non-branded, specialty toys,  gear and furniture.  Most of the products are  natural, organic, or have some  sort of European connection.  They were either designed and or  made in an EU country or under  fair trade, fair labor  conditions.  And again the toys and products  that you find on Oompa. com  or atomicbaby.com  are not available at Target  or Walmart or any of those other  mass retailers.  And the slogan, and what I use  for my buying guidelines are "no  batteries, no blinking lights,  no cartoon-themed toys, period."  So today, we are located in  Madison, Wisconsin.  The warehouse is about 20,000  square feet and again, the first  retail store opened on November  1st in downtown Middleton. 

 Today I have about 32 employees,  ten of whom are seasonal.  We ship anywhere from 100 to  1,000 packages a day.  It depends on so many factors.  We have over 5,000 products  online, about 1,000 in the  retail store.  And we don't ship  internationally.  We only ship within the United  States, US Protectorates and  within and to US Military Bases.  In terms of growth, I have to  attribute Oompa's phenomenal  growth to media and magazines  and television and our  publicist.  I made a concerted effort to  recognize the power of the  published word.  I hired a publicist and when she  says "jump", we say "how high"?  If a magazine wants any of our  products -- if they want them  for free, if they want them  overnight, I will send them no  matter what.  And because of our enthusiastic  response to the media, they have  in turn rewarded us with  mentions in their magazines. 

 And that's really important I  think when you're starting a  business because paid  advertising in a magazine can  run up to $100,000 for a spread  say in Parent's Magazine.  But if you can get an editor to  mention your product for free,  that's basically getting like  $100,000 for free and all it  cost me was the cost of maybe a  $20 product plus overnight  shipping to New York.  So when you're thinking of  starting your business, I really  encourage you to think about the  power of television and  magazines, even in today's  digital age.  This is still really important  to keep in mind.  A quick bit about me.  I was born and raised in Los  Angeles.  I like to travel.  I have lived in LA, San  Francisco and New York.  I attended USC's School of  Business and I am married and I  have two young children.  So, business school was pretty  hard for me. 

 I found out pretty quickly that  accounting, probability,  statistics weren't necessarily  my cup of tea and I found myself  falling asleep in my business  school classes.  But around this time, a friend  of mine introduced me to the  Internet which you know at the  time was still really new and I  found out that I really enjoyed  programming and graphic design  and database programming.  So, I left the business school  and I decided to work in this  new thing called the Internet  full time.  I moved to San Francisco and  this was during the first  Internet boom.  And then I had this crazy career  trajectory where I started out  doing graphic design for CBS and  Sony.  Then, a little over six months  later I started doing database  programming for Disney and the  Emmy Awards and then, maybe a  year later, I was managing  multi-million dollar accounts  for Virgin, Sheraton and  Nordstrom.  And I think this is kind of  funny and interesting and it  really speaks to kind of the  craziness of the first Internet  boom because I had virtually no  experience managing big accounts  or lots of different people or  teams in a multidisciplinary  setting.  But what I did have was a real  desire to learn and I sought out  people who were experts in their  field.  And I had a lot of --  confidence.  So that was an interesting time. 

 So the lessons I learned during  this time when I was sort of you  know winging it by the seat of  my pants, continued learning is  really important, confidence.  And like a previous speaker  said, seek out people who are  knowledgeable.  And I think those are really  important for being successful  in the workplace.  Let's see.  So after I'd worked on the  Virgin account, Nordstrom and  the Sheraton Hotels and Resorts,  I got the start up bug, and all  my friends around me were making  millions of dollars and I  thought, well I want to do that  too, so I'm going to start  something.  And I had a brilliant idea, not  so brilliant to start something  called The Corgus Group.  The company was intended to  create international guides for  doing business in different  countries or for starting  Internet based businesses in  different countries.  I opened it with my husband's  best friend, my brother in law  and myself.  And it was a complete failure.  We managed to blow through  $200,000 and to this day I'm  still not exactly sure where it  went which is a little  embarrassing. 

 Though what I learned was that  working very closely with  friends and family isn't  necessarily the wisest decision,  especially in a start-up  environment.  You're spending all day with  each other and when you get into  a fight at work, it bleeds into  all your personal relationships  and it was pretty ugly for a  little bit.  So that was a complete bust.  So again, what I learned from  that -- bad timing, bad  management, and bad  interpersonal relationships.  But thankfully, a few years  later, we're still all friends.  And some other things I learned  from that, the $200,000 that we  ended up spending was a  combination of personal  savings and investment from  friends and family.  And some of those family members  didn't quite understand that  they could actually lose their  investment, so it's important if  you do take money from other  people, to let them know that  there is a possibility that you  could lose all of it.  And then it's also important to  understand what you can  realistically deliver.  So in 2001 I was burned out.  I had worked with a company  where I had to lay off a bunch  of people. 

 I would see them at supermarkets  or in the building I lived at  and they would wonder why I had  a job and they didn't.  And it was really a depressing  place to be in 2001.  So my husband and I decided that  we were sick of the fog and all  of the traffic and we decided to  leave San Francisco.  And we moved back to Los  Angeles, the land of perpetual  sun.  We moved by the beach, I became  a mom, and I took time off work.  And then -- we took our family  to Italy and a tantrum, so  that's where I got the idea and  so we'll just fast forward a  little bit.  Once I did get the idea to start  the company, there were a lot of  things that needed to be done.  I needed to buy an e-commerce  platform, basically a shopping  cart engine that would run the  site.  One option would be to code it  from scratch entirely, but at  this time there was really no  reason to go that route because  if any of you decide to start an  online store, you can do a  search and type in shopping cart  engine and there are literally  dozens of options out there for  you.  So I ended up hiring a Boston  based company. 

 And for any of you who are  techies out there, Oompa. com  runs on a Unix platform,  Perl, PhP and mySQL.  So what I did, and I was  pregnant at this time with my  second child, I applied my  graphic design skills on top of  the existing engine to give it a  really customized look.  And then my brother and sisters  helped with the data entry.  And some of the boring but  important stuff.  We decided to create Oompa as a  corporation for personal reasons  because you know it's a toy  company.  Things could go wrong and just  in case there were ever any  lawsuits involved I wanted to  make sure that my family, my  home, my personal assets were  sheltered.  So we decided that we would be  an S-Corp.  I opened the first business bank  accounts which was a little  intimidating for me.  If you've dealt in the finance  world at all, it's still kind of  a man's world, and I remember  sitting behind the desk of you  know a very intimidating  business banker and him asking  me all sorts of questions about  why I was qualified to run the  business and you know I was  pregnant.  Would I still have time and  energy to run the business and  even though it was a children's  toy company, being pregnant at  the time was seen more of a  liability instead of a testimony  that I actually understood my  target market. 

 So, Oompa was started with about  $80,000 of personal savings to  buy inventory.  Some of the challenges involved,  just dealing with the toy  industry.  It's an old and backwards  industry, especially specialty  toys.  And to clarify that, if you look  at say Mattel.  Mattel is considered a mass  retail toy maker.  You can find them anywhere.  The toy companies that I buy  from are usually small mom and  pop shops.  They are European and even  today, some of them don't check  email very regularly, or they  rely on the fax machine to get  orders.  So, approaching these people and  telling them that I wanted to  start an online store carrying  their products, a lot of them  were like "I don't understand."  And then there was the  language difference with dealing  with either French or German  companies, and especially in  Europe, they don't necessarily  understand that a catalog  company can be just as lucrative  as an online store.  So there were a lot of hurtles  to get over in regards to just  dealing with companies who  weren't familiar with the  Internet and then who looked at  me as someone who had no  experience in starting a  business. 

 So I overcame some of those  difficulties by just explaining  to people about my professional  background.  I showed them examples of my  work.  And I was persistent.  And then what happened was  instead of usually in the toy  industry you can buy inventory  on terms, like you can place an  order, they'll ship it to you  and you have maybe 30, 45 or 60  days to pay.  In my case, I had to pay for the  inventory right away because no  one trusted me at the time.  They didn't -- the business was  just getting up and running.  So, the solution was I was  persistent and I just had to pay  for inventory up front.  And in terms of getting the  business up and running, there  were some real basic things that  had to be decided.  One was where to store the  inventory.  We stored it in the dining room,  then in the living room and then  the house was just bursting with  inventory, so we moved it to the  garage. 

 And we had a three car garage at  the time, so it started in the  first stall and then the second  stall and then the third stall.  And I remember pulling up one  day and saying "I can't park in  my garage, we have to get it out  of here."  So then we started to look for  a warehouse.  Shelving solutions -- I had to  decide what kind of shelves to  put the inventory on.  Then we needed a call center  solution.  At the time I had an aunt who  lived with me.  She was like my mother.  She was from the Philippines,  she had a very thick accent.  And I remember the first few  customer service calls went to  the phone on my kitchen counter  and there were a few times my  aunt picked up the phone.  And in a very hard to understand  Filipino accent, she -- and  she was also hard of hearing, so  I knew it was a customer call  because I was in a far away  room.  I could hear my aunt say "What?  What?  What are you talking about?"  And it was around the third or  fourth call that I realized I  had to hire a call center  because customers were getting  really confused. 

 So I always attribute it to "oh,  maybe you dialed the wrong  number."  So the business outgrew my  house in about three months.  We found some real estate space,  some warehouse space that is  near the house and some  landmarks.  Hired a CPA which when you're  starting a business, it's kind  of a big deal.  I'm really frugal and actually  spending money on a CPA and a  payroll service kind of hurt,  but I knew it was needed.  Then, we lasted about 6 months  in 2,000 square feet and then I  decided that I really needed  about 7,000 square feet of  warehouse space.  And you know you'll hear stories  about companies who you know  they start and they  automatically buy land for a  50,000 square foot warehouse.  And my husband, he has started  companies and sold them, some of  them have done really well, some  of then haven't.  And what I've noticed from his  companies and his friends -- his  venture capitalist friends is  that when they fail, it seems to  be -- and maybe they'll watch  this, so forgive me, but it  seems like they expand and they  grow too quickly.  So what they'll do is they'll  say you know I'm going to start  a media company, I'm going to  New York and I'm going to take  over 50,000 square feet of  office space in Midtown  Manhattan even though they don't  necessarily need it.  But it's the thing to do when  you get $20 million in venture  capital. 

 And I wanted to stay away from  that because I had seen too many  companies fail.  So my approach has always been I  just take what I need in  incremental steps.  So I save money and I can  control how nimble the  operations are.  So what I did -- I also -- it  doesn't bother me to be in a  really bad neighborhood.  I grew up in a really poor  family and when I was looking  for warehouse space, it didn't  bother me to go to a really bad  part of Los Angeles because I  knew it would be really cheap.  So I ended up finding 7,000  square feet of real estate space  in East LA.  I don't know, is anyone here  from Los Angeles?  Anyone?  Alright, well East LA is kind of  near Compton, so it's a scary  neighborhood, barbed wire  fences, really questionable  neighbors.  I'm sure there's lots of drug  things going on around there.  Graffiti, random stray dogs, all  over the place, potholes, you  know populations of homeless  people, all over the place.  It was a really shady area. 

 But the upside was that I got  really inexpensive warehouse  space.  Which was good because you know  I'm trying to run a business and  I needed cheap warehouse space.  Around this time, I also needed  a lot more staff.  So I hired a girl named Sara.  Then I hired Sara's husband,  then Sara's sister, Sara's  friend Emma, Emma's boyfriend  and then Eric had a friend whose  name I can't remember.  And one of the benefits of what  was going on at the time was  that finding staff was really  easy because they all had a lot  of friends who needed jobs.  So, staffing was easy.  And they were actors and  musicians so their hours are  flexible, they could work weird  hours.  But the downside of that was  that every single day was like  an episode of Jerry Springer.  You know when Sara and her  husband were fighting, everyone  knew it. 

 Then they broke up and it was  really dramatic.  And then part of the culture of  Los Angeles is that people seem  to call in sick or late because  they had band practice or an  audition.  And that was something that sort  of bugged me at the time.  Then a few other things  happened.  I got a few real bills from the  State of California and the City  of Los Angeles.  And these were thousands of  dollars that they said I owed  them and I remember calling a  few different agencies and  asking for clarification on  these bills and it was really  hard to get through to anyone.  And I realized that you know Los  Angeles and California are  really difficult places to open  a business and that's basically  when I started thinking that I  should get out of California.  I went to a bunch of different  cities.  I went to Portland, Oregon, Salt  Lake City, Denver.  I went to a couple of cities in  New Jersey, thought about New  York. 

 And I was looking for a  combination of factors to move  the business and my family  because at the time I did have  two young children and still do,  but they were much younger then.  And I wanted a city or an area  that was business friendly,  where real estate costs were  low, where the cost of living  was low.  I wanted a responsive municipal  government so if I had questions  about bills I could actually get  someone on the phone.  And two years ago, my husband  and I just happened to be in  Madison for business.  We went to a farmer's market on  a warm, balmy day.  People seemed to know each  other, there was music playing.  We had dinner at Harvest and we  looked at each other and we  thought, wow, we could actually  live here.  My husband is Jewish, he's from  New York.  We never agree on anything and  for us to look at each other and  say we could actually live here  was really amazing.  So we decided to leave Los  Angeles, move everything and we  ended up in Madison, Wisconsin. 

 Since, some lessons that I've  learned with Oompa -- I think  it's important that I love what  I do.  I work very long days but I love  what I do.  I'm sort of a perfectionist and  I think if I didn't love going  to work every day then the  company wouldn't be growing as  quickly as it is today.  Also, very frugal with finances.  I think it's very important to  be that way when you open a  company.  You have to be disciplined and  you have a set a culture of  discipline because as your  company grows, you need to hire  managers and those managers  usually need an ability to spend  money that isn't theirs.  So if they aren't as disciplined  with money as you are, there  could be some problems.  My operations at Oompa are very  lean, and they're very nimble.  So, you guys all know that the  economy has taken a nosedive and  people aren't spending as much  as they did.  I certainly had to scale back my  growth projections, but that's  alright because even here in  Madison, I took warehouse space  and I made sure that we had the  option to take or to increase  or decrement what we're using as  needed. 

 I made sure that we had that in  our lease and with staffing I'm  also very flexible there.  I have no qualms -- for better  or worse, but when you own a  business you have to be able to  look at your staff and if you  don't have the sales to support  them, say I'm sorry, you can  take the day off.  I won't need you until next  week, or just to cut people's  hours.  I also hire smart, motivated  people.  And it doesn't necessarily  matter if they have any  experience in customer service,  in the warehouse.  As long as they're smart and  they're motivated.  I believe, and I have found from  personal experience that people  can be trained, but they have to  be relatively intelligent and  motivated to do a good job.  And then finally I've learned  that it's really important to  grow organically and to have as  little debt as possible.  Servicing debt, especially right  now, I feel bad for some of my  friends who have to service  multi-million dollar loans and  that is not something thankfully  that Oompa has to do.  We have very little debt. 

 And you know it's -- I have a  lot of twenty something year old  people working for me, I'm maybe  their second or third job out of  college and people will often  complain that we're very cheap.  I say no to a lot of things.  But now that the economy has  turned sour and sales are a  little slower, we are in a very  strong financial position  thanks in part to controlling  expenses and to being very  frugal.  So as you go out there and you  consider opening a business, I  think it's really important to  keep that in mind, managing your  money is really important.  And that is pretty much it.  I'm open for questions.  >> And I am going to roam around  the room looking for folks who  have questions.  They can signal it with their  hands up.  Melanie, just hearing you tell  your story.  We were kind of sitting in the  back going "wow!"  You've got so much energy and  so much going for you with this  very, very interesting venture,  Oompa Enterprises. 

 Your career took off after you  worked in a number of positions  in a number of industries before  you ever thought about doing  something yourself.  How important was being  genuinely curious to your  success in being able to  establish businesses?  >> I think it was one of the  most important things.  I've always been a very curious  individual.  I like talking to people who've  started business or do  interesting things with their  time and I found that especially  working at some of these  interactive agencies, there were  just so many interesting people  doing interesting things,  starting interesting companies,  and I have so much to glean from  that, both personally and  professionally.  So I think maintaining a  curiosity about people and the  world is very important.  >> Even more so than necessarily  book smarts?  >> I have to say so, yeah.  >> Hi, my name is Dilan.  I was wondering if your low  debt, if it was because of using  a natural material compared to  using like plastics in stuff  like that, what's the difference  in cost?  >> No, not necessarily.  The low debt or pretty much zero  debt that the company carries is  because of disciplined financial  management and in regards to  toys, it's actually more  expensive to carry inventory  that is natural and organic  because it costs more to make  those products and the labor  involved in making those  products is just more expensive.  >> You also shared with us,  Milanie as you were talking  about your journey to certainly  fund your business and such. 

 A personal example that I found  to be kind of interesting, you  were talking about meeting with  a business banker, how that can  be intimidating, how you  happened to be pregnant at the  time, how he actually  acknowledged your pregnancy as  being potentially a liability to  your being successful which I'm  not even sure is a legal thing  for somebody in that position to  be doing.  We certainly know it wouldn't be  in employment.  That was just out and out  sexism.  How did you deal with it?  >> I was quiet and I've found  that it's very common that there  are very -- chauvinism is still  unfortunately alive and well in  the world and all across  different industries.  Just the other day, and I'm not  going to mention any names, but  I sat down with a public  official and he said  "you look like you're some  kind of ethnic."  And again I'm not going to say  who this is, but you know these  kinds of comments happen all the  time in this day and age and  being treated as though I'm  inferior than my male manager  who is my subordinate, you know  that happens all the time.  I'm just not surprised by it  anymore.  Certainly when I just joined  the workforce and I came  out of college very idealistic,  thinking the world had changed.  And certainly the stories from  my mother's generation didn't  happen anymore.  But you know now I just realize  it's just par for the course and  it happens and I smile.  I don't try to change the world,  I just deal with it. 

 >> Based on that experience and  some others that you've  suggested, are there points that  you would recommend,  particularly to the young women  in our audience as they're  moving forward and considering  careers in business and  especially developing their own  organizations in businesses.  >> I think it's important to  choose your battles.  Certainly if you are in a  position where you're  interviewing for a job.  That person, if you're treated  as anything but an equal and  sexism and chauvinism or racism  comes into the question, if  someone is in a position of  authority, I think it's  important to step up and say  something then.  If there is a potential that you  will work with this person or  buy from this person in the  future, it's important to  establish where you stand on  that issue.  But again, I've run into it so  often that's my stance.  I choose my battles.  And if it's someone who I will  probably never see again -- for  example, I travel to Europe  often.  I've traveled to Latin America.  I'll just ignore it, I'll smile,  and I'll move on. 

 >> Hi, my name is Mariel.  I was wondering with where  children's toys are going in  terms of technology and  electronics, how do you see your  brand as remaining competitive  in the industry?  >> Well without a doubt there  are certainly thousands of  highly technical toys out there  and certainly my daughter, now  that she's six years old.  She likes her Wii.  And I'm shocked and I'm really  annoyed by that but you know she  went to a friend's house and  played the Wii and she really  wanted one.  So, you know admittedly, even  though I own the company that I  own, she does get to play her  Wii once a week as a reward.  But I also think that there is,  right now a throwback to more  traditional toys and that there  are parents out there, and I am  one of them who believe that  exposing your kids to more basic  products, more basic toys,  things that don't require  batteries or things that are  more natural can have a calming  effect on kids, especially kids  with autism or ADD.  It's important for them to be  able to focus and learn to  stack some blocks, or be able  to say the alphabet without  just pressing a button and have  the toy say "A, B, C," and run  through the alphabet for them.  So you know I think the world of  highly plastic, battery operated  toys will continue to grow,  certainly Walmart sales and  Target sales will always be more  than my little company, but  there is a market for parents  and caregivers who are looking  for more basic products.  >> I know earlier in your career  you said you went from company  to company.  You went from some big companies  like CBS, Disney and Virgin. 

 Could you elaborate on that a  little bit more?  >> So, out of college I started  working for an interactive  agency and that interactive  agency was like an ad agency for  developing online web sites for  companies.  That company moved to San  Francisco and it was in this  company that I started working  for a variety of these high  profile clients.  I started out again in graphic  design and programming and then  moved on to project management.  >> Hi, my name is Lisa.  I know there's a big market for  organic foods, but how did you  get the idea to make organic  toys?  To clarify, I don't actually  manufacture toys, I am a  reseller.  I have thought about  manufacturing toys, but the  amount of liability involved in  that is really scary.  But in terms of bringing on  organic toys into the site, it  sort of falls under the overall  kind of auspices and the  guidelines of what I look for in  toys, natural, organic toys.  So the more natural they are,  the better.  So I'm always on the lookout for  products that are handmade or  made under fair trade, fair  labor conditions and often those  happen to be organic toys as  well.  >> Hi, I'm Anna. 

 You mentioned Atomic Baby, you  just launched it.  I'm kind of wondering what it is  and how it differs from Oompa  Toys.  >> Atomic Baby is a site that  carries modern furniture, toys  and gear.  So, for the past four years,  I've carried furniture on Oompa  Toys but because people sort of  know Oompa as a toy site, I felt  like the furniture was getting  lost.  And from a sheer business  perspective, when I looked at  the reports, furniture has much  higher margins.  So, for example, if you sell a  $1,000 crib and if you're --  you've just made $500.  So how many $12 rattles does it  take to make $500.  So I wanted to get the  furniture, the strollers and the  gear out of Oompa Toys and into  its own site, it's own branded  site so that people could have a  destination they could think of  for modern high end children's  furnishings and gear.  >> Hi, I'm Kelly.  Do you notice -- you said  something about the European  toys and that they're geared  more towards educational  purposes. 

 Do you think that has to do with  the European lifestyle and how  does it differ from the American  lifestyle and the fact that our  toys are more geared towards  technology and stuff like that.  >> I just had a conversation  with a vendor from Germany about  this.  I go to Germany very often and  I'm always fascinated by the  stores that they have there and  the food and the culture and  everything.  And also in France, but Germany  specifically, when you walk into  a toy store you see so many more  natural, basic toys.  And it sort of goes along with  the whole lifestyle that the  food they eat is fresher,  they're much more into natural  things there and this is true in  France as well.  When you go into a Parisian  grocer -- well the little stand  where you buy the fruit.  People much prefer things that  are local or organic or don't  have any pesticides or  chemicals.  And I think that that rationale  and that philosophy carries over  into toys.  Having a preference towards  natural organic things.  It's just something that I've  noticed and that I've been told  by numerous European friends and  vendors. 

 >> Hi, I know you just recently  opened your store, but I was  wondering how -- what percentage  of profits do you plan on making  with your store versus online?  >> I was running some numbers,  the store just has to make a  certain amount to break even,  and that would make me very  happy.  And in all honesty, while I do  believe the Madison/Middleton  market can fully support the  store, I don't anticipate its  sales to come anywhere near the  catalog company and that's  simply because of the population  density in the area, the  socioeconomic makeup of the area  and that the catalog company  services the entire country as  opposed to the few 100,000  people that surround the  Middleton store.  I think that the catalog company  will always out-pay sales  in relation to the retail store.  >> Hi, I was wondering if you  learned your frugality during  your childhood or in business  school or if it's kind of been a  mixture of both and then why you  go with certain accountants or  not.  >> I grew up in a very poor  family.  My mother -- my father passed  away.  My mother was single.  We grew up in the kind of house  -- we had a roach problem and my  mother could afford to take care  of it.  We always had the worst clothes  at school.  So as soon as I moved to San  Francisco and I started making a  lot of money, I learned how to  spend money. 

 I liked the designer shoes  because I could never have them,  I had to have the best clothes  because when I was growing up I  always had the worst clothes.  And then, honestly I met my  husband, he's from New York and  he's Jewish.  He values, and I say that in a  really loving way, but he values  being very frugal and it was  really his influence that taught  me the importance of conserving  money for really bad times.  So, and it was also seeing his  companies, some of them doing  really well and some of them  doing really badly.  So it was a combination of my  husband's -- and seeing what  happened to his companies and  seeing what happened to my  friends.  It really taught me managing  money is really, really  important.  >> We've talked with a lot of  people this semester about how  they have approached different  ideas and how it has impacted  other aspects of their life.  I appreciate your candor in  talking about what it's like  when you hire or work with or go  into business with family  members and some of the fallout  that can come from that.  Share with us a little bit more  Milanie about just the  challenges that developing an  organization like this can pose  on family life.  You were talking about oh you  know you were first putting  everything in the living room  and then it was in the garage  and then etcetera. 

 How have you been able to manage  that, particularly with a young  family?  >> Sure, backing up just a  little bit, my sisters, I have  two sisters, both of them have  worked for me at one point in  time and both of them don't work  for me right now and it's  because I'm a very demanding  boss and we've found that we  just don't work really well  together.  So I try to stay away from those  kind of family relationships  because it is very challenging.  In terms of being a mother with  two young children and having a  growing business, Oompa feels  like maybe having a fourth and a  fifth child.  I mean it's really hard.  My mother lives with me.  I have lots of help to help me  basically with my life.  I'm still a mother.  I'm married to someone who has a  company in New York, he travels  often.  I work very much.  I'm very driven and motivated to  succeed. 

 So you know I don't see my kids  as often as I would like, but  they understand that mommy has  work and I think it's important  for them to see that to --  really I believe anything worth  having is worth working very  hard for.  And now that my daughter is old  enough, she comes to the store  and she helps me out when she  can which I think is great.  I think now that I'm fortunate  enough you know to be able to  send my daughter to private  school and to buy her nice  things, I want her to know that  those things come with a lot of  hard work and trade-offs and  that nothing is free and that we  all have to work for it.  So it's challenging but you know  we all make choices, we chose  the lives we want to live, and  this is what I choose.  >> So Oompa Enterprises is on  the web, and you've got a  catalog presence and now just  very recently the grand opening  here in Madison.  What do you see for the future?  >> A few other stores, another  brand and hopefully more  employees.  I don't know, we'll see.  Although I have you know again,  temperate expectations because  of the economic climate.  But there are still sales coming  in and the company is still  growing, so I still see good  things for the company.  >> Well thank you very much  Milanie Cleere for sharing your  expertise with us. 

 >> Thank you.