cc  >> Welcome back, everybody, to  Entrepreneurialism in Society.  This is a course that is offered  through the University of  Wisconsin School of Human  Ecology.  As we begin, I'd like to extend  thanks to our partners in  supporting this course.  The UW Office of Corporate  Relations, the UW College of  Engineering for their technical  support, and financial support  provided by the Marion Ewing  Kauffman Foundation which is  committed to advancing academic  education in entrepreneurialism.  Additionally, we'd like to thank  our media partners, Wisconsin  Public Television and their  University Place crew for taping  today's lecture.  Today I am very pleased to  introduce our special guest Toni  Sykes.  She is founder and artistic  advisor of The Guild Inc.  Toni started The Guild in 1985  as a publisher of sourcebooks  for design trade professionals  to help artists find greater  markets for their work.  In 1998 she founded Guild.  com website and a catalog as a  way of bringing artist's work  directly to consumers. 

 Today, that consumer side of the  business operates under the  consumer brand of the Artful  Home.  Last year, Toni authored the  Artful Home: Using Art and Craft  to Create Living Spaces You'll  Love.  The book established her as a  national expert in the area of  artful living.  She is well known in the arts  arena as an advocate for  artists, is widely quoted in art  and direct marketing  publications and she frequently  contributes and lectures on  marketing the arts and juries  art shows, as well as works with  exhibitions across the US.  For 22 years Toni has served as  CEO of The Guild, and she  certainly continues to serve on  the board of directors of that  organization, as well as several  other boards that are committed  to supporting the careers and  work of artists and  entrepreneurs.  She serves as a senior advisor  to Gruppo, Levey and Company  which is a New York investment  bank providing strategic  advisory services to the direct  marketing in e-commerce  industries.  She holds a bachelors degree in  mathematics and a masters degree  in market research right from  here, the UW.  Please join me in welcoming Toni  Sykes to our class.  [APPLAUSE]  >> How's that?  Okay.  Yes, can you hear me back there?  Great. 

 Thanks, thanks so much.  You know, I was really excited  to be invited to speak with you  guys today because of the topic.  And the way this was put to me  which was to describe the  process that I took to implement  my ideas and create change, and  where did the origin of my ideas  come from.  And in 20 years of talking about  the businesses I've started, the  organizations I've been involved  in, no one has ever asked me to  talk about that.  So it was very interesting for  me to sit back on one of my  airplane rides and give it some  thought and make some notes and  it is those notes that I'd like  to share with you today.  I want to say that anywhere  along the way you have  questions, please shoot up your  hand and I will try and read  your name tag from here but if I  can't, tell me your name and  let's make this an interactive  process as much as possible.  I think I will go about 30  minutes and we can have some  fuller time at the end of this  for discussion as well.  I'd love to hear your thoughts  and feedback after I've finished  describing my adventures of the  last 20 years.  So in 1985 I started a directory  publishing business called The  Guild.  And we produced sourcebooks, and  still produce today, sourcebooks  that artists advertise in. 

 They take a full page of  advertising, we print up these  beautiful four color books and  we send them out to architects  and interior designers.  But the reason I started that  business, if I go back and  really think about the  fundamental reason that  motivated me to start that  business, it was because of a  boyfriend.  A boyfriend who had trouble  finding a job.  He was an artist.  I was in my first job here in  Madison going to grad school at  night, living with a wonderful  guy who was a very talented  artist and he was trying to make  a living as an artist.  And I watched him struggle and  work very hard at marketing his  work and it was incredibly  difficult.  He did large-scale atrium pieces  for hotels and malls and big  corporate buildings, and he  understood that the person who  made the decision to commission  him to do these pieces was the  architect or the interior  designer.  So the normal venues that are  open to artists were not really  appropriate to his kind of work.  He couldn't show it at an art  fair because he didn't have  anything small to sell to the  consumer.  Most galleries were not large  enough to have his, to exhibit  his particular kind of work. 

 So he targeted architects and  interior designers.  In addition to my boyfriend, we  had lots of friends who are  artists.  And I saw all of these artists  struggling to find ways to  market and sell their work.  If you think about it, there's  so few venues available to  artists.  How does an artist get their  work out in front of people?  Art fairs, galleries,  occasionally other kinds of  exhibitions.  Selling it if their own studios.  But there are so few places that  artists can sell their work.  So as I watched this happen, I  happened to be working on a  masters in market research here  at UW, I started thinking that  what I really wanted to do was  start an organization or a  business or some kind of system  that would help artists market  their work.  I mean, that was my idea.  And it came from a need and a  problem that I saw in my own  life, my very personal life, my  love life. 

 We didn't have any money.  We were broke.  That was the origin of the  problem that I wanted to solve.  And that's where I started.  How can I put something  together, and I didn't know what  it was going to be, I had no  idea.  I didn't know if it was going to  be a nonprofit organization.  I didn't know if it was going to  be a business.  I didn't know if it was going to  be a system under some other  business.  I just set out, over the next  couple of years, to figure out  how to do this.  And this is going to be a  recurring theme you will hear me  talk about as I go through my  notes with you over the next 20  years and describe the next 20  years. 

 That was in, I would say around  the early '80s, and in 1983 I  got married and my husband and I  moved to New York.  And I didn't marry the artist.  I have to admit.  My husband and I moved to New  York and I finished my masters.  I said to him I want to start a  business.  Or I want to start something.  I didn't even know that it was a  business.  But I want to start something.  And as I'm working on this and  thinking on this I happen to  come across, I want to tell you  one other story.  When I was with my boyfriend, I  went with him a couple of times  to make presentations to  architects and interior  designers about his work. 

 And so I got to see, I got to  know a critical customer.  And I saw that they truly wanted  to know about artist's work and  they didn't know where to go to  find it.  So that was a new and important  piece of the puzzle for me.  As a matter of fact, I remember  being in an architect's office  in Chicago and this woman said I  love artist's work, I want to  incorporate it into the built  environment, I just don't know  where to find it.  Let me show you how I collect  all the materials I get from  artists.  And she took me into our office,  pulled out a big box and it was  stuffed with slides and  postcards and brochures that  artists had sent her.  It was this big pile of stuff.  It was totally disorganized.  And I looked at that and I said  these people they want to know  about artists, they don't know  where to go to find them.  And of course, at that point in  time we didn't have the internet  as a resource either. 

 So that was another important  point for me that I knew, my  problem that I wanted to solve  was helping artist's sell their  work.  But I also saw that there was a  customer base that was very  interested in finding the  artwork of artists, but they  didn't know where to go to find  it.  So I moved to New York and got  to be friends with, in my  process of moving and thinking  and talking to people and trying  to figure out how to solve this,  I got to be friends with a  professional photographer.  And he was quite well known in  New York and he photographed for  corporations all kinds of ad  agencies all over the country  and I said to him one day I  said, Bruce, how do you get  these jobs?  And he said, oh, I advertise in  American Showcase.  And I said, what is American  Showcase?  He said, well, it's this  directory.  And he pulls out this big  beautiful book that every  photographers, illustrators, all  kinds of creative people  advertised in.  And he explained to me that he  bought a page of advertising and  then the book was distributed to  ad agencies and other creative  people who hired artists and  illustrators to do work for  them.  And I, you hear the expression  being struck by lightening, I  was struck by lightening.  Because I said this is it.  This is the vehicle I want to  use to present artwork to  architects and interior  designers. 

 So the rest, as they say, is  history.  I think that you start with an  idea or a problem you want to  solve and you know what that is  but it's way out there and you  don't always know how to get  there.  And you have to be open.  And you actually have to be  searching.  And part of that process for me,  and I'm not sure how other  people do it but I actually  would be very interested in  learning, the process for me is  talking to lots of people saying  here's what I want to do.  Do you have any ideas,  suggestions and getting their  feedback.  And in that process, which for  me in my career I've done three  or four times, it's often a  multiyear process.  It's thinking about it, adapting  this idea, getting rid of that  idea and slowly it starts to  take shape.  Well, at that point what I did  was I was kind of a cocky young  woman back then, I picked up the  phone and I called a man named  Ira Shapiro who had started this  book called American Showcase  which had become a large and  quite successful business.  He later sold his business to  McGraw-Hill. 

 And I asked him if I could take  him to lunch and talk with him  about an idea I had and he  agreed to that.  So I took Mr. Shapiro to lunch  and said I want to do, I have an  idea for a directory or a  sourcebook much like American  Showcase except for artists,  targeted for architects and  designers and we talked about it  for a while and he said, that's  a great idea.  And I said, well, would you be  willing to do it.  I would work with you to do it?  And he just sort of laughed at  me and he said, you know,  running my business is difficult  enough.  And I have a lot of things on my  plate.  But this is a good idea.  You should go publish this book.  And I went, I don't know how to  publish a book.  And he said, go start this  business.  I'll advise you. 

 There are other people who can  advise you on this.  And that is exactly what  happened.  Up until the point that I had  lunch with him, it had never  occurred to me that I could go  start this.  My concept was that I would go  to the granddaddy of directories  and have him do it and I would  help him do my idea.  But he said, you know that's a  good idea but I don't want to do  it.  You go do it.  So that lunch with him was a  very seminal and important lunch  in my life.  He did indeed, for the next five  years that I lived in New York,  serve as my mentor and helped me  and advised me every step along  the way.  As a matter of fact, I give him  a lot of credit for the success  of that business because he  helped me in so many ways.  Another important thing he said  to me that day at lunch was, I  said, now, you can't tell  anybody about this idea because  this is a really good idea and I  don't want them to steal it. 

 And he thought that was  hysterically funny and he said  something to me that I have  repeated over the years to many,  many other people who come to me  with their ideas and that is  there are millions of good ideas  out there.  There are very few people who  can make ideas into reality.  So just another Ira Shapiro  truism.  I have many of them.  So that is the story of my  sourcebook business.  I launched it in 1985.  The business model for this  business is that artists  advertise.  So it's a model very much like  the yellow pages.  The books are sent free to  architects and interior  designers.  The contact information for the  artists are on the page. 

 Designers and architects when  they have a client who needs or  a piece of sculpture or a piece  of architectural glass or  wrought iron, mosaics, whatever,  they show the clients, they go  through the books with the  clients, they select things and  then they contact the artist  directly and the artist then  creates the commissioned piece.  And that directory was, two or  three years after we started it,  was called by one of the major  design magazines the industry  standard in artist sourcebooks  and remains today, 23 years  later, as the primary way that  architects and designers find  artists to do commissioned work  for their clients.  It helps many, many, many  artists make a living creating  their work.  And it's something I'm very,  very proud of.  The way it typically works is  let's say we have an architect  in Seattle who has a corporate  client who wants a piece of  architectural glass or a  tapestry for his boardroom.  The architect looks through the  book with the client.  They call a couple of artists.  They get bids.  They select the artist.  The artist is rarely from the  city in which they are from. 

 They work with artists all over  the country.  And that artist ends up getting  a commission at the national  level, often halfway or all the  way across the country.  It's a good little business.  So that's the story of my  business number one.  What happened was that in, I  tend to get bored easily, and so  in 1990 my husband and I decided  to move from New York back to  Madison.  And I was itching by that point  to take this wonderful work, the  work of all these artists I had  met over the years, to the  consumer market.  And I knew that's what I wanted  to do, and I spent many years  trying to figure out how to do  that.  Because that is an expensive  proposition.  I didn't want to open a gallery,  I didn't want to open a gallery  in New York.  I thought about it. 

 But I didn't want to open a  gallery in Madison, Wisconsin,  because very few people would  see the work.  A gallery, a physical location  is very limiting in terms of how  many artists you can show.  I knew, by that time, hundreds  of artists, our database had  thousands of artists in it.  I wanted to do this in a very  big way on a very big scale.  And so books, expensive art  books weren't the way to reach  lots of consumers either.  So I started thinking about  technology, and how could  technology help me accomplish  what I wanted to do.  So once again, think about, what  I had was this thing I wanted to  do.  I wanted to present the work of  thousands of artists and  multiple thousands of images to  a large consumer public.  I didn't know how to do it but I  just kept talking to people and  thinking about things.  I started reading the technology  magazines. 

 I actually had pretty much  decided that what I wanted to do  was a business putting images on  CD-ROMs and then selling CD-ROMs  to the consumer.  This was the, I would say  1993-'94 and I put a business  plan together.  I actually was beginning to  think about raising money to do  that and in my process of  talking to as many people about  this idea as possible, I  happened to have lunch with a  friend of my who was editor at  the time of Architectural Record  magazine.  And I was explaining to him I  want to get this artwork out to  consumers.  He said don't go with CD-ROMs.  Everything is going to be on the  internet.  Now I'd been reading about the  internet.  I know you guys, it's impossible  for you to imagine a time  without the internet.  But there was once a time when  the internet was not ubiquitous  to our lives.  But this guy, his name was  Roland Algrant, was a very smart  man. 

 So I listened to him.  And I thought about this.  And I started reading more about  it and the more and more I read  about it, the more convinced I  was that the internet was  actually invented for artists.  It's a perfect vehicle.  It allows you to put as many  images, beautiful images online  and present them literally to  the world.  And search and sort and it's a  beautiful thing.  So that's what I decided to do.  And so part of my process,  remember I'm running this small  $2 million business which is  what The Guild sourcebooks was  at that time.  And I'm thinking about something  much bigger, much more  substantial.  So what I decided to do was to  try it within the sourcebook  business first. 

 So we actually put up here in  Madison our first website in  1995.  It had very few images on it.  We barely knew what we were  doing.  But we were trying to figure it  out.  It was mostly copy, which is  hard to imagine.  But it was a great thing to do.  It was a first effort without  putting enormous amounts of  money into it.  Actually we spent very little,  and we learned a lot in the  process.  So we developed a website and  launched it in 1985 and the more  I learned, the more I read and  as the internet became a real  thing in our society, I decided  I needed to have a separate  business because it was a very  different business.  And so I went out and raised  $800,000 from angel investors in  1998, started a separate company  called Guild. 

 com and we launched our first  website in 1999.  And over, that has been a very  exciting and wild and crazy  ride.  Over the next few years we  raised another, we raised about  $40 million for that business.  And then we sold that business  when the dot-com boom became a  bust.  And I went on the executive  committee of my parent company,  which was a public company in  Houston, and that was not a  happy experience for us or for  The Guild and so six months  later I bought it back.  So when I bought it back, I  brought those two companies  together, and that's actually  what exists today in a company  called The Guild Inc.  So that's my, that is my story  of the two companies about The  Guild.  I'm going to tell you a little  bit about what I'm doing now  because I want to reinforce  something about this process  that I go through when I'm  trying to figure things out.  Over the last four or five  years, actually since '98 and  '99, I've been very involved in  the technology community in  Madison because Guild.  com was an internet company. 

 Let me describe to you the way  that that business works.  We put the artist work up online  for free, we don't charge them.  And when we sell something we  take 50% commission, which is  the same commission that a  gallery typically takes.  It's a virtual inventory  business so we don't have  anything physically here in  Madison.  The artists are all over North  America.  The technology that we've  developed sends an email,  communicates directly with the  artist, the artist acknowledges  that they got the order, they  then pack up and ship the piece  of artwork directly to the  customer.  So it's a no inventory business  model which is a beautiful way  to run a business.  And it really works amazingly  well because of the technology  that we have developed.  So that's why this business is a  technology business.  This business would never exist  if the internet didn't exist. 

 We represent over 1200 artists.  We have about 15,000 images  online and we're constantly  adding new work.  So because of my experience in  the technology side of my art  business, I fell in love with  that world.  I'm just, I think the internet  is magic and I love that it  continues to bring new and  wonderful things to our lives.  So I became very involved with  the whole technology community  and have been since '98 and '99  and work with a number of  organizations, serve on the  boards of directors of a couple  of internet businesses here in  Madison.  And because we had raised so  much money, and the tech  community knows this, lots of  people over the years have come  to me and said would you read my  business plan, I need to raise  money, can you help me do that?  And I see that as a real need in  Madison.  We don't have a lot of capital  available for investment in  businesses in Madison.  And what I had done was raise  venture capital from the  primarily the west coast, also  New York and actually raised  some money from the UK, as well.  So this was something I knew how  to do and I actually enjoy doing  it.  So I've given lots of advice  over the years and really  believe in doing that. 

 But I started thinking what, one  of the things I would like to do  that I think would contribute to  my community is to help  technology companies raise  money.  So I hope you can see that  there's some parallel here.  What I saw in the early '80s was  that artists needed help  marketing their work.  What I've seen in the last 10  years is that technology  companies need help raising  money.  And so I started thinking about  that.  I found myself spending more and  more of my time with technology  companies than I was focused on  my own business.  And so last year I decided you  know, I've been working with The  Guild for at that point, 21-22  years, it's time to step aside  and let someone else come in as  CEO, bring some fresh ideas and  new experiences and let me turn  my attention to something that  I'm very excited about.  And so what I did was in January  we hired a new CEO, we made that  announcement, I stepped aside, I  still have an involvement in my  company, but I started a whole  new process of trying to figure  out how to do that.  And all I knew was I wanted to  help technology companies raise  capital.  I didn't know how I wanted to do  that. 

 Did I want to serve as a  consultant?  I didn't think I wanted to do it  as a volunteer any longer.  I've been doing that for a long  time.  Did I want to start my own  business?  How was I going to do that in  the most effective way?  And in the process of talking  with lots and lots of people, I  had lunch with a friend of mine  in New York, a woman named  Claire Gruppo who had started 15  years ago a wonderful investment  bank.  And she said, you know  technology is a new area that we  are developing.  Come and work with us and we  will help you do this and you  can run this area of our  company.  So that is what I'm doing.  I actually started doing that in  June because I had to take a  bunch of big tests in order to  sell securities.  And I've doing that since June  and we're still figuring it out  because this is, I actually I  don't think we'll have it  figured out for a couple of  years but we're putting the  pieces together under the  structure of an investment bank  which is a fairly new concept.  Investment banks mainly buy and  sell big companies.  And what we're trying to do is  help small companies raise  capital from venture capitalist. 

 So what I've tried to do here is  give you three examples of ideas  that I had and what I did to get  there.  And if I leave you with  anything, I would leave you  with, from my perspective it's a  process and sometimes a long  term process.  Maybe other people's ideas  spring fully formed, mine never  did.  And they change constantly along  the way.  I think if you know what you're  trying to do, you just don't  know how you are going to end up  doing it and you're open and  constantly searching, it's a  process you can trust.  Because you actually will be  able to get there.  So I think with that I'll open  it up to you for questions.  >> Thanks very much, Toni.  I'm going to look around the  room for students who have  questions of you.  I've been franticly writing down  all the questions that I have  because your story is inspiring,  I think to any one of us  regardless of our level of  experience in either developing  businesses or in just going to  school and conceiving of  businesses. 

 As I look around the room, one  of the first things that you  mentioned as you were talking  with us was you said you weren't  sure what The Guild sourcebook  was really going to be.  Whether or not it was going to  be a business, whether or not it  was going to be a nonprofit.  How did you eventually arrive at  your decision for it to become a  business?  >> Well, I would say that was  driven, first and foremost, by  the fact that the model that I  wanted to use, which was  American showcase, was a  business.  Because the minute I saw that  book I knew that that's what I  wanted to replicate.  I knew that was my model.  And so as I started to research  what that was and how it worked,  I came to understand that it was  a business.  But I came out of the nonprofit  world and the nonprofit arts  world.  And in many ways my head was  more a nonprofit head.  And I think that in today's  world I just finished a  wonderful book by Paul Hawken  called Blessed Unrest that I  would recommend to anyone.  It's about the convergence in  environmental issues and social  issues that we have in the world  today and the fact that there  are millions of entities out  there trying to solve these  problems and they do it in many  different forms. 

 They could be nonprofits, they  could be government agencies,  they could be churches and they  could be for-profit businesses.  And he uses, as an example, the  fact that people start with a  problem they want to solve.  Or a cause that they believe in,  and for whatever reasons what  they know, what they're  experiences are, they do it in a  variety of different forms.  And I think that's absolutely  true.  And possibly the sourcebooks  could possibly be a nonprofit  organization.  >> Thanks.  >> Hi, I'm Lisa and I was  looking on your website for the  Artful Home, I think Saturday,  and I saw that you have a  section on there it's called  CERF, Craft Emergency Relief  Fund.  >> That's right.  >> What gave you the inspiration  to start that?  >> Actually, I didn't start CERF  but I serve on its board of  directors.  That is an amazing nonprofit  organization that was founded  the year that the sourcebooks  were founded and I served on its  first year's board of directors,  left for many years and now am  back on their board of  directors. 

 And they raise money to help  artists who have emergencies.  So artists who have a studio  fire or a hurricane has wiped  them out or they have health  issues with no health insurance.  We literally just raise money to  give out to artists who are  suffering some kind of dire  disaster.  And so The Guild, part of our  sales proceeds every holiday  season go to the Craft Emergency  Relief Fund.  Thank you for asking about that.  >> Hi, my name's Jessica and you  mentioned that you first started  The Guild because you had  friends who were artists and  they needed a way to get their  artwork out there, but as your  company continued to grow how  did you find the artists from  there?  Was that something you did on  your own or did you have other  people help you with that?  >> Well, our staff, as we grew  we had more staff who would  attend shows and look at the  magazines and there are many,  many resources for finding  artists but today, in addition  to us doing all of those things,  I think we've become such a well  known, we are the largest  retailer of original art in the  country and because of that  reputation many artists come to  us as well.  And we do a monthly jurying  process, we have a online  jurying system and a monthly  jurying process that allows us  to look at artwork every single  month and bring new artists on.  Thanks, Jessica.  >> Hi, my name is Jeremy.  And I was wondering about when  you get a new idea about a new  venture that you want to start,  how do you sort of go about  moving on from the old one into  the new one and then sort of  staying involved with the old  one and things like that. 

 >> What good questions.  That is actually some of the  hardest issues I've had to face  and part of my problem, and I  think this is not uncommon for  entrepreneurs, is that I do get  bored easily and I like doing  new things.  I like starting new things, and  that sometimes is not always the  best thing for a business when  you've got on ongoing business  the best thing you can do with  that business is focus on  getting that as strong and as  large as you possibly can.  So I think the basic concept is  to get something solid and get  people in place who can continue  to run the original idea so that  you can go off and focus on  creating the new idea.  And that's exactly what I did  with the sourcebooks.  By the time I started Guild.  com in '98, the source books had  been around for over ten years.  They were profitable.  I had people in that business  who had been there for many  years that the people in that  business tend to stay in it for  a long time, and I could  literally walk away and it was  fine.  We did actually take office  space down the hall when we  started Guild. 

 com.  We were in the same building but  in separate offices.  And because the sourcebook was  so strong it allowed me to just  leave it and not even have to  think about it.  >> I'm Lisa and I was wondering  what's the process of  elimination for an artist?  Like if five artists wanted to  be in the magazine but you only  had space for three, how do you  decide?  >> You're looking at a catalog,  I think I saw a catalog passed.  [INAUDIBLE]  I'll keep it moving.  >> Well, first of all, let me  say that I think this is what  you're asking, so tell me if  it's not.  When we jury artwork, we jury  artwork to put artists up on our  website, that's the primary  purpose.  And we make our selections based  on quality of work, quality of  photographs, that's very  important because we're not  photographing this work.  In many cases, we never even see  this work.  So if the photographs have to be  professional and very good in  order to us feel like we have a  chance of selling the work. 

 And then the other factor that  goes into it is do we think we  can sell it?  Because we see lots of good work  that for whatever reason we just  don't feel like it fits into our  brand and we don't think that  our customer will buy it.  For instance, we don't have a  lot of confrontational art on  our website.  Our website is about having  beautiful things in the home,  and so difficult artwork or very  esoteric artwork that you're not  going to be able to understand  from on image online is really  not what we sell.  That's more appropriate for a  gallery.  So we take about 10% of the  artists who apply to us and it's  for a whole variety of reasons  that we don't select work.  It takes our resources to bring  an artist into The Guild.  We put a lot of time and energy  into getting their artwork up  online, and we don't want to  waste the artist's time either  if we don't feel like we can  really sell it.  Now, from the 15,000 images we  have on the website, we cull  from that and put that into our  catalogs.  We do five catalogs a year and  that's a couple of hundred  artists at a time.  And that is primarily based on  how well their work is selling  online. 

 So our customers have told us we  like this work.  And so it's really taking the  things that we sell best and  putting them into the catalog.  The catalogs drive about 70% of  our sales.  So as you might imagine artists  really want to be in the  catalog.  They will do anything to get  into catalog but we say to them  we're going to put your work up  online, typically it will be six  months to a year before we can  even consider putting you in a  catalog because we need to see  how our customers respond to  your work.  >> Hi, I'm Teddy.  I was wondering in these tough  economic times, many people have  to cut back on the luxury items  and even with the success of  your company have you guys felt  the effects of this?  >> Yes, yes, yes.  [LAUGHTER]  Do you want me to elaborate?  It's horrible.  And it's our business and it's  pretty much everyone in the art  world.  I move a lot in the art world  and every where I go, and I have  many artists who are friends and  shows are being canceled,  galleries are going out of  business, it is a very difficult  time. 

 And I think for understandable  reasons.  People are having to cut back  and focus on what they need for  the bare essentials.  And it's affecting every level,  income level in our society.  I just came back this morning  from New York where I've been  for a week and that is a really  depressing place to be these  days.  A lot of people out of work who  were making a lot of money.  So yes, it's affecting our  business.  >> Hi, I'm Beatrice.  I was wondering if you you've  ever had any ventures in the 20  years that you were working with  The Guild that you weren't able  to pursue and if you might want  to sometime in the future?  >> I have a list about five  pages long.  Yes, I do have a number of ideas  and for me it's constantly  looking at the ideas, seeing  what resources you have and this  year it came down to what is my  own personal priority and I  really felt that it was time for  me to do something new.  People ask me all the time will  I go back to the arts and new  things in the arts and that  maybe at some point. 

 It certainly holds a big part of  my heart.  >> Hi, I'm Alexa.  >> Hi, Alexa.  >> Hi.  In the beginning of the process,  how did you reach out to the  artist?  Like before?  When you were first starting?  >> The first thing I did in 1984  was I hired a market research  firm and for getting them to do  it for at cheaply as possible.  But I actually did use a market  research firm and we did a  survey of artists trying to  understand did they think this  was a good idea.  How much might they be willing  to pay for the ad in the book.  So that was my first kind of  foray out into the art world  beyond my circle of friends.  And then, at that time, there  were a couple of very large  shows, art shows in the field  that I knew best which was the  fine craft field.  There were some large shows run  by the American Craft Council. 

 And so I went to the biggest one  of those shows and I had a huge  party.  And I suspect that some of you  in this room are artists and  have friends who are artists and  there are a couple of  fundamental things you probably  know about artists.  One is if you offer them free  food, they'll come.  And the other is they love to  dance.  And so I had this great party  with a great band and gave out  flyers saying come learn about  The Guild and have dinner, join  us for dinner and come dance.  And that was a very important  way to launch because it  generated such goodwill.  Everybody was excited.  They had a lot of fun.  And it really helped us, as soon  as the party was over, I could  then walk around the hall the  next day, the next couple of  days, they knew who I was and  they felt good about what we  were doing.  >> Hi, my name is Gina. 

 I know your catalog must be  pretty profitable you said.  How do you kind of target, what  kind of people do you target to  send the catalog to or who do  you find is most interested in  buying the pieces?  >> The buying of lists in the  catalog world has become a real  science and there are actually  companies that help you do that.  They're called cooperative  databases and they put together  all of the lists of all of the  catalog companies.  So every single catalog company  participates in these databases  and then they take a profile of  your customer.  They take all of your customers  and they do a profile, I think  it's 120 variables so they know  what your customer looks like.  And they take that profile and  they overlay it against this  great big database in the sky,  and from that they pull the  people who are most like your  customers.  So that in the old days I might  have purchased a Crate & Barrel  list, for instance.  Because our customers tend to be  people who use home furnish  catalogs.  They buy from catalogs, they buy  online in the home furnishings  area.  So now, instead of getting the  whole Crate & Barrel list, the  cooperative database only pulls  those names that are similar to  the attributes that The Guild  customer has. 

 >> Hi, my name is Allie.  You originally talked about how  you had to raise $800,000 from  angel investors and obviously  you're working a lot with  investing money now, can you  talk to us more about some of  the challenges you faced and the  processes you went through in  trying to raise this money.  >> I can, and it has changed  quite a bit in ten years.  I think that with the dot-com  boom that's when a lot of  technology companies started and  especially e-commerce companies  started going to venture  capitalist.  And back then it was a little  bit more of the pioneer days.  You kind of looked out there and  tried to find out who was doing  what is targeted those companies  that were investing in the kinds  of businesses that you had.  And that was very interesting    exercise.  Today, investing is much more  matured, I guess I would say.  There are all kinds of ways that  technology companies and other  kinds of companies, not just  technology companies, can get in  front of investors.  There are, I think there are 20  angel investor groups in  Wisconsin. 

 Those are groups of investors,  individual investors who've  pooled some money, and invest in  an early stage.  And they'll typically invest  $250,000 to $500,000.  So much smaller amounts money.  Whereas, when I started back in  '98 I just asked all these  different people and say would  you have lunch with me and make  my pitch or could I come to your  office and talk to you.  So I had to see lots of  different people to raise that  $800,000, whereas today you  could raise $800,000 by  presenting to three different  angel groups if your pitch is  successful.  So it's much more codified  today, and I think a lot of that  is very good.  It's easier.  You don't have to spend all your  time raising money.  And in terms of reaching venture  capitalists, you can do it the  way I did it in the early days  or you can also, there are all  kinds of conferences where, for  instance, we just had here in  Wisconsin the early stage  symposium which selects 20  different young businesses to  make presentations and venture  capitalists and angel investors  all come together for a couple  of days to see these different  companies make presentations and  make pitches.  So it's changed a lot and there  are many more opportunities. 

 I can get into, if you want to  after if you're interested, I'd  be happy to talk with you  afterwards about how I did it  specifically or what I said or  how I got in the door.  >> Toni, I'm going it ask our  last question.  I was moved by your story and  the number of people that you  brought up as you were kind of  talking about the journey that  you had in developing your first  company.  How important was networking as  a young entrepreneur as somebody  who was trying to vent your  ideas, how important was it to  reach out to people like Ira  Shapiro who probably seemed  larger than life to you at the  time?  >> He did.  He did.  Thank you for asking that  question because I honestly  believe whenever I speak to  entrepreneurs it's one of the  first things I talk about.  It may be the single most  important thing other than  having a good idea that you're  passionate about and you think  you can convince people.  First of all, innovation is  built incrementally with lots  and lots of feedback and so one  of the first things you want to  do is just talk to lots of  people because most people are  smarter than you are when you're  starting something out brand  new.  And there's a lot more  experience out there than you  have.  But it's also being willing to  seek people out. 

 I think that when you're young  and perhaps not as confident,  there's a reluctance to call  someone you don't know.  Or send them an email and ask if  you could buy them a cup of  coffee.  And sometimes they'll say no.  And I say no to a lot of people  just because I don't have time.  But I try to make as much time  as I can to talk to people.  So I think reaching out, people  feel good when you ask for their  advice.  And the generosity of people is  amazing.  So it's something I would  encourage everyone to do and  then to go beyond just reaching  out and asking for advice,  staying in touch with people.  You never know when your paths  will cross at some point in the  future or when it might be  helpful to you to be able to  connect with them again.  So I'll tell you a story, last  week in New York I met with a  man named Lou Sagar who I met  ten years ago and helped me, I  hired him as a consultant ten  years ago. 

 And I have a project I'm working  and I had just gotten back in  touch with him and said, Lou,  here's what I'm doing and what  are you doing and can we get  together.  And we had coffee together last  Thursday and as a result of that  meeting, he's putting me in  touch with a Japanese investor  that I will use to try and  introduce to a company I'm  working with.  So that was someone I haven't  talked to in ten years.  So a Rolodex, whether it's  electronic or on a card file is  incredibly important.  Staying in touch with people  because you never know.  You never know.  >> Well, you've been very  gracious with your time and  you're counsel with these new  young entrepreneurs and I know  they join me in thanking you.  >> Thank you guys.  [APPLAUSE]