cc
educational policy studies and >> Michael Olneck: As Sara said,
I'm very happy to have shared with Sara the task of organizing
this conference, and very, very happy to welcome the members of
the next panel who are going to speak to the idea of what the
Wisconsin Idea should mean, what it can mean.
And, as David Ward suggested, what it comes to mean can be
very different depending on the context, depending on the era,
and depending on from what
and acting. perOur panel members includeing
representative Cory Mason,
from Racine. who is a member of the Assembly
Legislative Joint Finance Committee and the Assembly
Committee on Natural Resources. Among other things, he's a
sixth-generation Racine resident
of Case High School. and a graduate
here, and that's why, actually, He receivehe is here. philosophy
If you heard the committees I just mentioned, you didn't
hear education committee, so you might be wondering
why is Cory here. And the answer is that my
colleague Harry Brighouse from
him about being a part of this philosophy, when I was asking
you really have to get for the conference said, you know who
because when Cory was student here, I gather, or while you
were here, he had asked Harry about something in one of his
books like why didn't you talk
And Harry, also from being about the Wisconsin Idea?
didn't know what the Wisconsin across the Atlantic, stated Ward
New York you wouldn't Idea was necessarily...'re from
[LAUGHTER]
you'd know. Anyway, I gather it was Cory who
really genuinely inspired Harry Brighouse to learn about and to
care about the Wisconsin Idea.
official who knows about it, And he said if you want a public
get Cory. So we're very happy to have you,
here. Todd Berry, next to him, is
president of the Wisconsin
He served in public, private, nonprofit sectors, at one point
was assistant director for the
and executive director of the WiscoGovernor's Tax Reformvenue,
Commission. He's been a member of the Dane
County Board, Jefferson School
He has served on the North Board, CESA #2 Board of Control.
Board of Trustees. Central College of Illinois'
doctoral degree from here as He holds bachelor's and a
policy and business weadministration, and one fromnd
Harvard, the other from the University of Chicago.
Todd is somebody who is very
higher education in the well-being of our state, in the
capacity of our state to sustain
welcome him. quality education, and we
Allie Gardner, who I don't know if I've been introduced to.
Hello.
Was born in Madison. >> Hi.
Went to Edgewood here and is an undergraduate.
She is the chair of the Associated Students of Madison,
ASM, and somebody who works very
say in Washington for the hard interests of students.ould
And we're glad you were released
come back. on your personal recognizance to
community organizing and And she plans to go into
return to grad school in EPS or possibly, asociology. the best,
That's excellent. [LAUGHTER]
My colleague, Sara Goldrick-Rab,
She is an associate professor, you've met.
She attempts, in her work, to bounpack the causes andgy.
consequences of socioeconomic inequality, especially as it
relates to college attainment.
maybe increasing number of She is one of the few people, or
social science methodologies in people,her research.ange of
It's not limited to qualitative or quantitative.
She is in the midst of several
part of a William T. Grant experimental studies that are
Rethinking College Choice in Faculty Scholars project called
She holds a PhD in sociology America.
Pennsylvania. I'm very happy to welcome
everybody and turn it over to Todd.
No, no, no. Sorry.
I was looking at Cory.
Folks will speak for Turn it over to Cory.
I want to give everybody a up to 10 to 15 minutes.
one another, to converse, and cthen we should have plenty ofo
time, we go to 4:30, to have a
floor with panel members. >> They're speaking and we're
responding. Did you say that?
They're speaking and they're
It was never 100% clear to be rexactly...
[LAUGHTER]
make your own points, and Becathat's part of, I guess,g to
responding. Anyway, I'm just going to
moderate. [LAUGHTER]
Good afternoon, everyone. This is worse than church.
Good afternoon, everyone. [LAUGHTER]
My name is State Representative Cory Mason, and I'm a proud
graduate of the UW philosophy department, which makes me
marketable enough to be a state legislator.
[LAUGHTER]
here and really excited to be invited to talk about this
topic.
something I have a passion The Wisconsin Idea is actually
Before I begin, there's a couple about.
mention. people I want to thank and
which, is Mr. Miller, who's an First, and not the least of
Historical Society and helped me archivist at the Wisconsin
I have here today. prepare some of the information
didn't thank my mentor and old But I would be remiss if I
Brighouse who's been really instrumental in giving me new
and different ways to think about the world and challenge
the things that I confront on a daily basis.
And since graduation, I'm happy to say, has remained a good
friend. And I guess, I'll start by
talking about my first
Wisconsin Idea was a bit experience dealing with the
I, between my sophomore and junior year of my undergraduate
here, was home and it was 1996, and there was a recall election,
something I'm a little bit
now becoming familiar with, fthere was a recall election in
Racine for the state senator
the Miller Park for the Brewers. over the stadium tax to build
democrat, I should go down there And I thought I'm a good
Long story short, the next thing and volunteer some of my time.
wind up with a full-time job in I the legislature working for I
then-senator Adelman, who's now a federal judge, and thought how
am I going to finish my degree? And it basically meant that I
became a non-traditional student
the legislature as a staffer and that was working full-time at
That same year, there's gsomething called the Wisconsin
Blue Book that comes out every
It's basically an almanac of two years.
legislature publishes, and in it Wisconsin politics that the
Wisconsin Idea in its heyday. tAnd, to me, this was sort ofe
like the greatest discovery ever
100 years ago, 100 years ago now because it was about how almost
this great nexus between this buend of State Street and thewas
other end of State Street, and
amazing things by working that they atogether.ccomplished
So I became inspired about this because I was getting this great
education, practically speaking,
Judiciary Committee at 22 years old and really learned some
fantastic things, and then would
lunch hour or at night. takeAnd it was a great time. the
And I just thought, wow, it would be so inspiring if these
great institutions could
nexus. rediscover and rekindle that
that I've always been talking Anabout the Wisconsin Idea.ion
And when I met Harry for class, he had written this book called
School Choice and Social
which I found atrocious, but the Justice, the conclusions of
interesting about it is he was point that I thought was
issue in a way that nobody had talking about the school voucher
those terms before. It was a new way to think about
it, to talk about it, and put it
which, I thought, was very in terms of social justice,
And I said, why aren't you interesting.
about this because this is a talking to state legislators
public policy position that policymakers have no connection
to, and what about the Wisconsin
And so from there we've had a number of conversations about
that, and I'm happy to say I
influence in the way he looks at might have had some small
But here's what, I have two big thoughts about the Wisconsin
Idea that I want to share with
Number one, I am annoyed with which the way it is talked about
as this great historical, once
would like to see it upon a time sort of thing and
almost 100 years ago. Number two, my thoughts about
what it means to give public
what a public university is acmight be broader than whatnd
you're thinking about in the
challenge your thinking about it next couple days, but I want to
public interest of the public becuniversity, I'm not justthe
thinking about how we win people
economic engine or our utility over with our utility as an
It's something far greater that I think harkens back to the idea
of the Wisconsin Idea.
mention in terms of access, and TI'm only going to talk on ito
briefly, but I think it's so
chancellor were still here to importasee this.wish the
So if we have another budget
sometime again in the future, defithe easiest place forwill
legislators like me to cut is the university system.
It is the easiest place to cut
None. beAnd that, as a graduate andce.
somebody who loves the
really frustrating. So a $250 million cut, perhaps
the single biggest cut we've
$60 million cut as part of the seen, supplemented by another
later, and I couldn't get a clear and concise, other than a
very strongly worded letter from
outcry on what this would mean the chancellor, there was no
I couldn't get UW Parkside to explain to me what this would
mean for programs or for
Put in short, the University of Wisconsin does a horrible job.
advocating for itself in the
change. lBecause what you have in termso
of raw materials with students
the state is a great untapped resource that has not demand the
real consideration that the university deserves in the state
budget, and until that changes
easiest place to cut. And that will affect our future
students and the future economic
So I plead with those in this room who listen and those
beyond, the university system has got to find a way to be an
advocate for itself.
intended to talk about is when Broadly speaking, though, what I
I've come to learn that they people say the Wisconsin Idea,
different things. Sometimes they think it means
innovation, or maybe it means a breakthrough at the University
of Wisconsin in a specific
Maybe it means a way to brand the university.
That what makes us different. We've got Badgers football and
the Wisconsin Idea. But it's not entirely clear what
that means. Maybe it's a radio network, the
Wisconsin Ideas Network.
the university are the borders Maybe it means the borders of
hear that most often in the of tsimple definition of it.nly
And certainly UW Extension still
What Babcock did over a hundred years ago speaks to that.
At its height, Professor
"But quite as much in the field Fof legislation and of public,
life in general as in the industrial world the is expert
needed. The industrial conditions which
shape our society are too complex, problems of labor,
finance, social reform, too difficult to be dealt with
intelligently and wisely without
educated men, and women, the leadership of highly
and literature on social familiar with the legislation
nations." This was at a time when it was
unheard of for the universities to be advising legislatures.
Its origins come from John
is a harmony of productive Bascom himself, who said, "There
are secured, and the laws of action by which the gains of all
economy." And his students, famously, were
Robert La Follette and Charles
And he also brought Ely to the Van Hise.
this story as well. UW,So, Professor Ely was a in
professor of economics whose
and Charles McCarthy, probably students were John R. Commons
when it comes to the Wisconsin the two most important figures
policy. IdeHe also got into a bit ofblic
trouble, but I wanted to talk about this trouble he got into
because I think it serves and important reminder.
All too often the university is told don't get involved in
public policy.
We're just there to do research, We're supposed to be out of it.
And Ely offered opinions, and those opinions went on to be the
germ that went on to create things like unemployment
insurance and workers compensation, minimum wage, all
kinds of things.
then-superintendent at Wisconsin But there was, the
He thought he was too much of a really dradical.ke Ely.
And there was this great trial
absolved him and came out with that the Regents had and
now become almost a model of this great statement which has
the rallying cries of academic this state, and certainly one of
this country. When they said, "Whatever may be
the limitations which trammel inquiry elsewhere, we believe
that the great state University of Wisconsin should ever
encourage that continual and
by which alone the truth can be fearless sifound."nd winnowing
This was because he was getting in trouble for offering input on
public policy and taking stands on some of the big issues of the
day.
student of Ely, and this is a picture, this relief is a
picture in the assembly chamber at Wisconsin.
It's right at the front of the
There are no reliefs of any legislators in the hall, but
there is a relief of this man,
first director of the Legislative Reference Bureau.
And while he had that appointment, it was an
appointment from the UW.
in that role. HeAnd he, literally, wrote theed
book on the Wisconsin Idea, now 100 years old, and if you want
to be inspired about what a university can and should do for
the public interest in this state, I would encourage you to
read it.
Teddy Roosevelt that makes him It has a beautiful foreword by
Rawls, believe it or not. sAnd goes on to an amazinghn
influence on what public policy can be and should be for a
state.
unemployment insurance, workers He is incompensation.ible for
He invented the idea of the technical college system, the
apprenticeship model, all of
policy. Charles McCarthy also said thisl
great thing in this foreword to this book.
He was a student here and said
legislature. this about his work at the
student, seeking knowledge, came He said, "I, a wandering
great University of Wisconsin, knocking at the gates of the
with inspiration, and when I and it took me in, filled me
of the state stretched out left its doors the kindly people
man's work to do." welcoming hands and gave me a
of economics, he was appointed John R. Commons, the professor
McCarthy and other legislators with the encouragement of
Commission, and he helped create to the Wisconsin Industrial
workers compensation. He was on the Wisconsin Minimum
Wage Commission and Wisconsin Civil Service Law, which was the
precursor to collective bargaining laws in this country,
and he helped create the Public Service Commission.
Not bad for a guy who's an
University of Wisconsin. economist and a professor at the
And here he is, I guess he would [LAUGHTER]
last of an individual receiving bthe first unemployment check
in Wisconsin. It was considered a great step
forward in Wisconsin in economic
of Wisconsin citizens. security for tens of thousands
succeeds McCarthy, and, as the Edwin Witte, a generation later,
appointment as a professor at the University of Wisconsin but
also served as director of the
bought very much into Bascom's Legislative Reference Bureau,
why that was so important. idea of political economics and
invents with Altmeyer, social And he isecurity.iterally
He is appointed by FDR to come
economic security and comes up and chair the commission on
security. Now, that's an amazing legacy,
and those are the big pillars when I think of the golden era
of the Wisconsin Idea that
not just for this state and not just to secure a middle class in
this state, but became national models.
But the amazing thing to me as I
you hear these names and they're learned about this history is
Witte and Bascom and Commons. peBut for me, coming to thes.
university, only thing I knew when I came to the university
about Witte is that you didn't
after him. want to live in the dorm named
And they called it [###] Witte [LAUGHTER]
when I went to school here.
about Witte. That was all I knew
me, and I am constantly Thasurprised when I talk to to
different classes and colleagues, both legislatively
and if I'm every invited here in
know what the Wisconsin Idea is? the university, I say do you
or maybe a couple people know, And you usually get blank stares
our culture the way it should bbe, this great legacy that wen
gave to the state.
that the Wisconsin Idea employed So, at its best, I would hope
University of Wisconsin to the expert advice of the
address the biggest problems advise the legislature on how to
These solutions can be so successful that they become
national, maybe even
To this day, many of them are the structures that help hold up
the middle class in Wisconsin.
Wisconsin Idea and what a public That is, when I think of the
think of. univIt's not just that veryat I
important question of access and
that's so important to the students and an economic engine
it is also a university that future innovation of the state,
Wisconsin. informs what it means to be in
is why Teddy Roosevelt called it And that, a hundred years ago,
in America. thBut at the very least, thety
Wisconsin Idea could
the legislature and the reinvigoruniversity.us between
There is no major issue facing
from economics to natural the sresources, where thenging
state-funded research should not
there's no such nexus that inform public policy, but
It just doesn't. exists today.
get a professor to come and talk Sometimes, occasionally, you'll
some expertise, but it should be about an issue where they have
where the legislature is a matter of course, I think,
and the university is embracing back and saying we've been doing
really important research that
on how to address these issues. gAnd for too long, even thoughce
we're only a mile apart,
a hundred miles apart. culturally it's as though we're
about what it means for, whether And if we're going to think
have talked about what would it mean for distance learning or
blending of some of the departments and having more
transparency, think of what it
what it meant to be at the would mean once again if part of
faculty member or a researcher University of Wisconsin as a
called upon to give input to the or even as a student you were
including public access to the great issues of the day,
technical college system, including, I hope one day, real
advocacy on behalf of the university, but also in every
other policy matter that
I'll give you two examples that I've sort of insisted on in my
time in the legislature.
crisis in Racine where we have We have an infant mortality
infant mortality rate in the the highest African American
It's almost 3% that don't live country.
And while I was creating to see their first birthday.
project about it, I called the legislation to create a pilot
campus and said do you have Scanybody who has expertise onn
this? And they said, in fact, we have
a public health fellow who would
And he came to my office two love to work with you on it.
that we put together a plan that days a week, and we made sure
researched and based on what had was evidence-based and
we put it into statutes here. wThat is but one example of thed
Wisconsin Idea. I will have to leave here at
4:15 because I'm going back at
with the University of Wisconsin 6:30 to do a community event
and myself who opened up an Penvironmental education center
on the Root River in the middle of a central city in Wisconsin,
in downtown Racine, and it has
with the University of Wisconsin really been pushing the envelope
addressing redeveloping this about what is their role in
educating people about natural economic corridor, in terms of
And it has been a great joy to resources in our community.
We have a new provost at the do that.
new chancellor, actually, who, University of Wisconsin and a
were like why are we running a when they inherited this, they
Racine? coWe've got other issues.own
What's going on?
paddle from the education center It was taking this great canoe
the mouth of the river and back fagain with the provost Terry
Brown where we were discussing
opportunities were for students eveand faculty to engage in anal
process like this.
public university can do to address issues of the day, be
them penny legislative issues or
whether it's healthcare reform big issues facing our state,
growing the economy or how do we or affordable childcare or
tomorrow, are still there and still very possible to address.
The other thing I want to say about the Wisconsin Idea is when
people talk about it now and
that's all left wing social policy, and we can't have the
university tied up in left wing social policy.
But in its day it was not viewed
In fact, it was viewed as the great thing to stop socialism
from taking hold in the state of
It was nonpartisan and it was pragmatic.
The university leaders of the time really viewed it as we
figured out how to use science
to do great things with abuttermilk and how to do great
things with agriculture, some things with industrial
efficiency, why too should we not be addressing the very
complex issues that affect the
The other thing that was so incredible about the policies is
there were other states that
issues. Wisconsin was the first place
that was really smart about it. Teddy Roosevelt says in his
foreword to the book Wisconsin
they," McCarthy and his colleagues, "decided that an
object was desirable, they at once set upon to work
practically to study how to develop the constructive
machinery through which it could
This was not an easy attitude to be achieved.
In other words, what made our ideas so brilliant was that they
worked so well functionally in
It was smart public policy. Not left policy, not right
policy, smart, effective policy that could be achieved through
real means. And this came up in two
different ways. There were other states who had
tried things that had failed. The other thing that states were
encountering is they were trying
the courts kept declaring them to develop these programs and
So McCarthy used this scholarship not only to write
effective, pragmatic programs,
court system as well. bSo it was viewed as this greate
enormous achievement. It did have an egalitarian moral
ethic but not a partisan one. The idea was is that the public
university should drive policy
betterment of all Wisconsin in the pubcitizens.est for the
So it does have that moral view from that point of view, but not
at all a partisan one.
by many as a lion of the left, In fact, McCarthy, who is viewed
the US Senate against Bob La Follette because he was so
mad about his antiwar policy
ran around. aSo these really were a diverseI
group of people who were using
possible to encounter the the bestate's problems.ey had
And so when we talk about public
is and what it means to have a access and what the university
interest, I would encourage you and hopefully maybe even inspire
you to think beyond just giving a lot more citizens access to
this great university system, but also how to reemerge with
University of Wisconsin as not
what it does for its graduates, jusbut making it the greatestfor
university once again because of
Thank you. what it does for the state.
You can sit or you can stand. Whatever you'd like.
Well, it's sort of
because in my rereading about the Wisconsin Idea, one thing
that came down was that there were sort of two views of it,
and one was sort of a public
a service to people and polinstitutions of the state. of
And Cory sort of talked about the first, and I'm going to sort
of talk a little bit about the
And, believe it or not, we second.
came. It's really good to be here.
For those of you that aren't
people in this room. aware, there's really some great
you're not aware of it, Tim You have Higgins. here, if
And you have, really, one of the
higher education in Wisconsin, lions of government and in
So it's really great to see Don Pthem. here.
One of the problems in thinking about the Wisconsin Idea is that
nobody, probably even then, could agree entirely on what it
was meant to be.
reading various people's pieces, And I went back and started
had written a thesis 40 years anago on the Wisconsin Idea.er
[LAUGHTER]
in the Wisconsin History But there's a lot of good stuff
the State Historical magazine and some of the stuff
fitting that the Blue Book that Cory mentions had a wonderful
long piece on the Wisconsin Idea
mid-'90s. And then the other things I was
thinking about as I tried to
David Wertz's dissertation in '06 that he did in what was then
the ed admin department because he found some really interesting
and provocative things that we
And I also thought that Katherine Cramer Walsh's paper
that's just come out where she
around the state, and their perceptions of the university
was fairly telling as well. But the way I'm going to look at
the Wisconsin Idea is a little
not going to diss or in any way bsuggest that the public policym
component isn't there, it obviously was.
But what Jack Stark argued in his history of the Wisconsin
Idea was that it's the second focus, the focus on the
university and its expertise, the research serving the state
and the people of the state that
fundamental, and the more I thought about this, I think it
has a lot to do with why the
funding problems it is because university is in some of the
of the Wisconsin Idea. it sort of forgot that component
Wisconsin Idea is not? So, what are some things the
winnowing plaque, although I It's not the sifting and
plaque, and being a native of loMadison used to run aroundng
campus when I was six and seven years old.
It's not just the political and policy reforms of the teens and
the early 1900s, although that's
And, surprisingly, and this may be a little unpopular, it's not
really about students.
degree could credit as the And Van Hise, who was to some
although there were precursors, said that a very large fraction
of the work of the university is
are here but for the 2.5 million done not for the students who
And I think that captures pretty people of the state.
Wisconsin Idea. Now, more recently people have
said it's the boundaries of the university are the boundaries of
the state, and I think that's sort of a nice cliche, but I
really think it's about using the human capital, the
expertise, the research capacity
contribute to the betterment of people's lives in this state.
And Cory mentioned some of the
butterfat and so forth. There was some research early on
on cabbage disease, for instance.
But it had to do with building a
and the university of the state. partnership between the people
Stark because it says something Aabout the university's current
problems. The professor building on what
the farmer already knew was fundamental in an effective
partnership and explains why
to support university research. I don't think you see that much
anymore.
President Adams, nowhere else have the masses of the people
received so much direct assistance from the teaching
force at the university.
the Wisconsin idea as really the So I really want to think about
way serving the people of the university istate.ry practical
And I'm going to get in trouble here by probably saying some
things I shouldn't. I'll reassure you I love
Wisconsin.
I'm a sixth generation Cory and I share something.
farmers in Jefferson County, but Wisconsinite, although they were
by the nature of your name. probablyI don't know.w England
And Camp Randall was where my great-grandfather was mustered
out of the Civil War battalions in 1865.
My grandfather taught here. My father taught here.
My mother was a staff member
Most of my degrees, the important ones, are from here.
And my wife was a UW system VP
So I do love the state and I do love the university, but I think
for a long time people have started to realize that we need
to get the Wisconsin Idea back
John Weaver was the first president of the UW system.
And in 1972 he said to the
timely, indeed prerequisite, Regents that, "...is it not
and rededication as well that one begin reexamination
of these universities? to the public service role
seek a revitalization Sof the Wisconsin Idea?",
And that was 1972.
A veteran faculty member and So that's 40 years ago.
a speech in the early '90s, "Who Killed the Wisconsin Idea?"
And it was meant to be a
was talking about how the idea provocative title, but he really
Jack Stark, in his history, '95, had faded.
the idea faded? tAnd his intuition was that thes
idea was much stronger in an
And then, finally, just some earlier era than it is now.
Wertz's dissertation and from recent the Cramer piece.om David
David was studying Ohio State,
Georgia and trying to get some Wisconsin, and the University of
quantitatively into how they insights both qualitatively and
public. weAnd so he went to people onthe
campus, and he interviewed them,
virtue of the Wisconsin Idea is aultimately a low priority ande
the century old concept has lost
So there's a problem here. its flare.
people there, the legislature Thused to know faculty. to
Now they don't know anybody, he says.
The university used play a
policy; now it's not the case. serious role in helping state
writing in his dissertation, And then, finally, this is him
the UW has become increasingly there's a growing concern that
And when you read the UW Madison national and international.
Idea, that's not altogether surprising because they talk
about the university's research and contribution to the state
but then they immediately add to
And that's fine. the nation and to the global.
and the betterment of the world, Make contributions to the nation
the Wisconsin Idea was about but let's not forget that what
I thought David's findings in terms of how Georgia, as opposed
to Wisconsin, went about
interesting. engaging the public was really
problem with Wisconsin often is there's so many of us here that
are natives.
We have a very high percentage We don't tend to leave.
So we're sort of smug, and we sort of think we do things
better than maybe than other
not be the case. states, when in reality that may
making real strides that we Tdon't think about in terms ofe
K-12 education, in terms of higher ed.
There's a lot of investments
wouldn't think. beBut what he found was thatu
Georgia was spending
service and outreach. And what he found was that not
only that but the university was
that effort in the way it was much more sorganized.to focus on
Almost like having case managers
and he saw that at Ohio State and at Wisconsin it was really
sort of haphazard and decentralized.
And I had to think back a little
my father was on the Extension bit to earlier in my life when
talking about a reorganization faculty, and I remember him
some time in the '90s and Jack then, and I think there was one
the '60s. SAnd of course we had this PR
stunt in the last couple years, and that's what it was where
they system decided to say we're
Colleges and Extension together ewhich, maybe it makes sense,
maybe it doesn't', but what it
So what's also really interesting is that in terms of
the state administrators and the
in Georgia, and I just have to legislators that he interviewed
so great. "The University of Georgia ise
seen as having people out in the
In response to them, the fact is community.
lives have been enriched because that citizens feel that their
And then here's a quote from the of the outreach program."
which we'd probably look down our noses at, but what has put a
lot of effort into higher ed. "I dare not touch the funding
for UGA outreach because the
So they're very engaged, folks depend on that expertise."
And then, finally, the Cramer Walsh research, and I just want
to read you a couple things from
"Many residents of Wisconsin that.
flagship university was inattentive and inaccessible."
There was general agreement that
was mainly inattentive to the thconcerns and needs of peopleut
like themselves.
blew me away because it says And this is the one that really
university might have once been with the Wisconsin Idea doesn't
even exist anymore in their minds.
She wrote, "Many members of the public do not expect a close
relationship between public universities and residents of
the state at large. They do not readily think of UW
Madison as a resource for all the people of the state."
So, as I get to, let me share a couple other anecdotal things
which sort of confirm this
And, again, I really do have research.
think back to the time that I wanted to get a master's degree
in business.
agribusiness, and I wanted to I get an MBA at Wisconsin.in
My father was a Business School professor.
And I said to him, I can't work on a graduate degree here.
They don't have programs for
students or executive students. eveniSo what did I do?ekend
I went to the University of Chicago which had evening and
weekend and daytime on-campus programs.
It was all seamless, same faculty, same courses, and a lot
more Nobel Prize winners than the UW-Madison Business School,
I might add.
Pardon? And another thing, and this is
going to hit a little closer to home for use of those of you in
the ed school, I had a
public policy organization. We've been around for 80 years.
Our mission is to do research on
share that information with the stpublic and the media, withnd
school groups.
other things. We pubI speak to the stated some
superintendents conference every
I'm sort of the lead-off year.
Somehow they haven't figured out speaker.
I also speak to a lot of that they don't want me.
meetings through CESAs and speak regional superintendents
Association training sessions a fair aand so forth.ol Board
I got to tell you, I never see
from the ed school. I can think of one exception,
but that's about it.
college trustee and with a wife as a higher ed administrator, I
had a long interest in higher ed
had something to do with me agetting a PhD fairly late in
life. So I started watching higher ed
leadership in Wisconsin, and
think about it. iAnd I'm not directing this atou
Madison so much as the
But there are revolving doors. comprehensive campuses.
going from those campuses all There are cthe time.s coming and
Just yesterday we learned that
leaving for a private college in the UW Eau Claire chancellor is
And I thought he just got here. Maybe it's been four, five, six
years.
promote from within. But we don't train, encourage,
that would provide the And who would be the chancellors
public that people that had some leadership to reengage with the
We import these people from all connover the place.tate.
Go look at their bios.
everywhere except here, and they Alabama, Washington state,
The one exception is Chuck come and go regularly.
fantastic job. Sorensen at Stout, and he does a
But you can't expect a And he gets Wisconsin.
somewhere else and then leaves chancellor that comes from
about the history and the in culture, the ethnicity oring
anything else about the state.
engage the public? So how can you expect them to
diatribe about UW Extension, and I've already sort of given my
clearly the Wisconsin Idea in thterms of being involve inas
community development, in agriculture, and they're still
doing that, and they're still doing a pretty good job despite
being treated like stepchildren.
public and trying to promote And as far as re-engaging the
I've got to tell you, I don't think the university system gets
it at all.
look at the press releases, it's You look at the website, you
It's not about engaging. all about marketing.
convince you to give us more It's about marketing so we'll
So it's grassroots politically money.
Network. organizing the Badger Action
responsible for some of this. So I'm hitting pretty close to
home. Economic summits a few years
ago.
business community to think well It was more about getting the
get engaged in the economic life of the university than to really
The growth agenda is a perfect of the state.
students can see through it. example, and I have to say,
course in the ed school the last I've been teaching a graduate
come up to me in class last tsemester, it was a course onn
politics and education, and she said to me, who are they
kidding?
So we're going to educate accountants and engineers and
computer scientists who are really good people and who can
command pretty good salaries and
find out they can't find jobs in they're going to graduate and
And regardless of what the Wisconsin so they leave.
says, that's going on, gang. Alumni Association or the campus
that, and it clearly shows that Wwe've got a fairly large brain
drain.
I really believe in the Wisconsin Idea..
I really believe in the power of
the people and institutions of the university to reengage with
State government, yes, but more. the state.
of issues that we could look at. And I think there are all sorts
understand job creation in this There's state. need to
And, with apologies to Cory,
legislature gets it. neither side of the aisle in the
research out there that says Yet, there's all sorts of
work and it has a lot to do with what works, and what doesn't
Another idea, school districts young firm creation.
have been bleeding children acrossfor 20 years.consin
The K-12 population in Wisconsin
Sixty percent of the school hadistricts in the state are8.
losing kids.
The end of the baby boom echo, Part of that is demography.
Wisconsin and in the rural but that is huge across northern
Those folks are, they're just thinning out.
And helping these rural areas think about how to reinvent
themselves and stay viable is really important.
A piece of research the UW could
way, was to look at rural dschools and what's going on ine
rural school districts and how
And there's a lot more that could be done on that in terms
of looking for models that will make rural school districts
viable. Because you can't run the old
model, the old building teacher in the classroom model is not
going to work for them. So somebody better come up with
some other ways to do education.
it ain't working. MPSWe did a major consulting it,
project on MPS a few years back,
cut and layoff and so forth, we predicted they would be bankrupt
by last year when we did the
And they're teetering on the study.
To think about how to reorganize edge.
can't be just money because they're spending more money than
the average school district in
They've got a lot of other this by a reasonable margin.
needs to help the legislature and Milwaukee and the Governor
think about how to educate
Milwaukee. disadvantaged children in
school districts in this state There are municipalities in
bankruptcy. We have no municipal bankruptcy
law.
Milwaukee County go belly-up? Well, it's going to come out of
the university's hide and all of
We're going to cover the bills. Medicaid is going to eat
everybody's socks.
in the last budget. IIf you look at the increase ins
Medicaid funding, it will line
in almost every other program. up really nicely with the cuts
Well, yeah, but there was a small little general fund
transfer, but even
to any great sense. tSo the university could really
help the state think about the
in ways that save some money way to deliver Medicaid services
going to keep coming out of K-12 because if we don't, the money's
schools, everything else. eduSo, I'll leave it at that.al
I guess what I'm pleading for the original Wisconsin Idea
is I think the early proponents defined it, which was really
service to the people in the
And I don't want to leave you on state in very practical ways.
a lot of good stuff going on out a negative note because there is
Now, it tends to be in the more traditional places, but my
daughter's going to finish a
back to her heritage five or six degree in the Ag school, going
interesting to hear her talk generations I guess, and it's
on potatoes, huge in central about the work that's being done
In fact, she and a classmate Wisconsin, cranberries, huge.
somebody that's experimenting with growing chokecherries.
And you don't think of them as
that what this project is all reabout is finding indigenousut
Wisconsin food materials, crops,
to make money off of and create new agricultural opportunities.
So there are good things going
But I'll leave it at that, and I on.
for the other two panelists to guess we're going to have time
[LAUGHTER] tells us...
Hi, my name is Allie Gardner. I'm actually going to stay
seated instead of standing up.
from Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. But, as was said before, I am
I'm the only person in my family I was born here in Madison.
person to attend UW Madison in from Wisconsin, and the only
And it was interesting to hear my family.
from Wisconsin think that they that Todd mentioned that people
rest of the states because that causes some family controversy
sometimes since I'm the only one
But I'm really excited to get to from here.
especially as a student. talk about this topic,
than not, we're left out of these conversations, and I think
it's really important.
disagreement about the role that Although there might be
Idea, I think no matter what students play in the Wisconsin
going to be the future actors of it's very clear that we are
So I want to touch a little bit on that and I also want to
respond to the idea of the
Wisconsinites and how that is and is not different from the
public policy discussion that we
history of the Wisconsin Idea. have when we talk about the
explanation on why I think, what And then, also, start to give my
flare for the Wisconsin Idea, why I think that's happened.
I want to touch on that a little
But I want to start by bit.
student coming to this campus efor the first time, having a
tour, walking up Bascom and all that.
And they tell you about the Wisconsin Idea, and they use the
quote, "The boundaries of the university are the boundaries of
the state." And then they start talking
about study abroad and
And so that is the first thing volunteerism and philanthropy.
then when I went to student organization kick-offs and we
had administrators come and speak at them, that is the same
sort of rhetoric that what you
China and Bolivia and you spread learn here you take to Peru and
great things, and I think itactivism and charity andre
volunteerism are strong here, but the context of that being a
part of the Wisconsin Idea is a strange myth, and it's one that
we start with coming in as
be demystified. frI also did some of my own to
homework and research on the
with a woman who has put history of the Wisconsin Idea
on the Wisconsin Idea. together this set of CliffsNotes
currently sharing it around Icampus and doing these smalls
sort of discussion groups on it.
me. SI didn't know any of that ando
wasn't taught any of that when I
taught that we sent a lot of came here, but definitely was
which is great. peoI think that's great.rps,
But I think it's sort of
misrepresentation of our mission starting us off with a
this state and what the Wisconsin Idea historically is
and is supposed to be with this idea of global service and
global competition and a focus
which, again, I think is really important and has become a focus
but, again, is particularly controversial or contradictory
to the Wisconsin Idea in my own opinion.
And this sort of attempt to change the mission while still
using the branding of the Wisconsin Idea and the boundary
idea isn't really working and is
and is confusing a lot of undergrads and probably graduate
students too. Going back to some of the
research that I did with this woman, her name is Gwen Drury
and she works in the Community
believe is what it's called, in University Health Services.
What she said, she explained it as it's not the Wisconsin Idea,
it's the Wisconsin Idea and trying to emphasize that this
was about Wisconsin, not that we
in Wisconsin and go spread them elsewhere and kind of developn
them elsewhere. But the whole point was that we
have these distinctions in
expertise and of needs and of different problems that we have
here, and that trying to find the solutions to those problems
and using the expertise and innovation and resources of our
own state is what the Wisconsin Idea is actually about, not
about us kind of leaving
And that the Wisconsin Idea was developed in a time when we had
all of these really serious social, economic, and political
crises happening at one time and
that everyone agreed was that there was mass corruption
They didn't know who was happening.
The public felt completely influencing who.
on, and they saw and intense disconnected to what was going
change. And that this type of change
that was necessary was going to be huge, and it wasn't going to
be easy at all for anyone.
about that relationship between the state and the university for
research, for innovation, for expertise, was critical for
directly benefiting the entire
on transparency. state, and also for that focus
were setting the agenda in our And the idea that those that
didn't feel comfortable with, but the idea that the university
had a different agenda and that that agenda was based in
discovery of truth and in transparency and in this sifting
and winnowing idea, people felt more comfortable with than this
agenda that was set by people who were influential at the
time. I think some of the most clear
examples would be some of the dual appointments where
professors were also mayors,
governors and also served as professors were also advisers to
Some of the policies and directors of state agencies.
brought up, like the creation of practices that have already been
started to see environmentalism, income tax, when we first
public health laws, child labor laws, development of recalls, in
general, and then becoming the
developed unemployment first place in the world that
All of those things came out of that time, and there was also a
policy or a law put into place
state capital always had to have that said that the capital, the
And that's when we saw, even a university in it.
faces Bascom. So there was a really clear line
of that connection and a need for the sort of information and
expertise that the university can provide to legislators and
to policymakers to improve
And I think it was brought up, people's lives.
time, historically, this wasn't about students, but as people
who now, more and more, are really heavily involved in the
research of the university, we
also future actors and people that will be carrying out the
Wisconsin Idea on this campus and also around this state.
One other thing that I think was
was how controversial some of these policies or all of these
policies were at the time.
important to focus on. And I think that's incredibly
socialism and that these major Claims that this was acts of
for, but at the same time you had Charles McCarthy saying that
nothing was going to prevent
doors of opportunity to the class people of Wisconsin.g the
And this promoted this idea of
access to the university, and that that's what's going to keep
us from having bad things happen
That it was going to be inincredibly difficult for the.
entire state to be in agreement when we were having these huge
changes that were going against these economic, political, and
social crises.
interest me also was I haven't And I think what started to
heard people talk too much read too much about, or even
was like at that time because we about, what public perception
Follette, we hear about Van Hise know we hear about Bob La
how their leadership meant so amuch to the Wisconsin Idea andd
that likely some of these things
their leadership. But I'm wondering if the same
sense of elitism that we've read
pieces, or that we talk about sometimes that we know about,
was still there because it was
university and people that were in elected positions and that
they were distinct from other people.
So that really interests me to
public perception of elitism see if there was a similar
if the difference is about back then as there is now, and
perception, though I think leadership rather than public
well. tAnd in thinking about some ofas
the examples today, if we think about dual appointments, I think
we still have some professors that work in state agencies like
the Department of Health or something like that.
We have community projects on campus.
We have something called the
opened a week ago, and they try to focus on providing research
to community projects.
Partnership, I think it's Wcalled, which I mentionedic
earlier.
sometimes is a willingness to go But I think what we're missing
issues that are social or towaeconomic or political orsial
whatever you want to call them. We don't have a lot of the
experts really willing to talk
controversial issues that are affecting our state like
healthcare or unemployment or student loan debt, any of those
things, and I know that,
mining state, and it was historically, we used to be a
university's involvement that prmade us the cheese state.the
And so it's big, drastic changes
were incredibly controversial. like that, I'm sure at the time
compensation at the time was I'm sure having unemployment
now it's normal and we state incredibly controversial, but
progressive and incremental thparts of our history.st
But now there's this sense of fear, it seems, on campus to
talk about those controversial
They're too political. issues.
educational innovation on campus, that's been a huge
thing, but we don't talk about
sure why. I'm not sure if that's something
that we're not allowed to touch,
I know being a student who's we're not allowed to talk about.
before and asked if I can make a gone to my professors and my TAs
it's on issues that pertain to class announcement, and usually
about partisan type of work or student government, it's not
but they'll say I don't know if whatI can let you make thatl it,
announcement because it's too political, or I don't know if I
can have you send out that email
too political in my department, bor if I've made phone calls,t
things like that. There's this real fear on
campus, and this goes back to what I was saying about why I
think there's this loss of flare
think the fear also stems from on the Wisconsin Idea, and I
a sense of unity. The chancellor, earlier, talkedn
about our culture of
lack of teamwork and that that individualism and that there's a
educational innovation that's necessary, but I think it also
prevents us from feeling like we
controversial issues that are affecting us as citizens of this
state.
and go to school here, we are Walso citizens of this state.
So we're effected by these
And then we also have the resources here and the expertise
here to actually work on those
or there's this sense that you issues, but we're told not to,
don't bring that up. don't talk about that, that you
from explaining the Wisconsin AIdea for what it was and moved
to more a sense of stewardship, philanthropy, volunteerism
because those things are
board with and they don't make something everyone can get on
whatever reason. people uncomfortable for
lack of motivation and a lack of And I think that fear creates a
other governance groups as well activationon campus.ts and in
We lack the unity.
support in place, and we also Wdon't have the leaders.'s
I think what was mentioned by Todd early is incredibly
important.
here. LeadWe need more Bascoms,rtant
La Follettes. We don't have those in our
generation, and also some other non-male, non-white leaders.
[INAUDIBLE] >> What was that?
We have Cory. [LAUGHTER]
Leaders as well.
developing those sorts of leaders here, if we are teaching
people to question, to attack those controversial issues,
to do the sifting and winnowing that we harp on, it's not just a
plaque but are we actually
that so that we're creating pleaders in our students and ing
our faculty and in our staff too
positions or whatever other tleadership positions that areor
going to activate and motivate
motivate our governance groups our communities and activate and
those more controversial issues. on campus to start working on
disability to advocate properly Ibecause we don't have supportr
and we don't have leaders and we
working on those controversial aren't activated and we're not
So I think that inhibits us from issues.
that we need to do for the doing the type of advocacy work
on this global focus or this university, and instead we focus
of market rather than what does gthis state actually need rightt
now?
help this state and how are we How do we use these resources to
this state even on controversial not afraid to use them to help
That's all. [APPLAUSE]
Okay, is it on? Yes, okay, it's on.
I'm going to round out this panel, and I'm not going to talk
for very long.
I'm going to, as a fairly controversial person I believe,k
take the chance to actually say that I remarkably agree with
much of what's been said here,
and then I sort of strongly disagree with some things that
they each said. Here's a little bit of what I
agree with. We have taken a turn at some
point, I don't know when. I have only been here eight
years.
that that's not very long in I've learned, in no short order,
I came here from Virginia, a this place.
universities do much for the place where I don't think the
The place has very little sense of community, and we have no
connection to UVA.
connection to UVA are the people The only people who have
I think that the rhetoric here at UVA.
degree that we offer in monetary has been about the value of the
That we spend a ton of time showing you that education pays
off and showing you that chart
That the degree is valuable, over and over again.
it's worth it. that it has payback, and that
it, that you should buy it at Tall costs, and that that's whyr
you should come here. That's an incredibly
individualizing way to think
university, and it's no wonder about what we're doing at this
individualized, at the that we've become incredibly
faculty level, at the student administratlevel.vel, at the
Everybody's in it for themselves, and everybody's out
to become the best superstar
We're going to lose on that proposition.
We're going to lose relative to those that we want to be
competitive with. We're going to lose because
we're not in control of the economy.
We're going to lose because if
of opportunity at all, we're interested in a quality
premium to the bachelor's degree inevitably at some point, that
because more and more people get is going to start to decline
be such a premium. it, and so there isn't going to
upset. And then we're going to get
pushing on our graduate Then we'programs.to start
The way to win here is through
generating something here that the notion that we are
knowledge, and that's discussion, and it's what you're
doing in the room.
and exchange ideas about how to make the world better and that
we go out and then we implement them.
The problem is that, A, we don't
enough, and it's hard to claim that, we don't say it loud
So we need to prove that once you've come to any of our
universities or any of our
leave somehow changed in a way two-year colleges, that you
piece of paper that your other than that you carry a
learned something. employer thinks means you
demonstrate. That's what we fail to
legislature. That's what we don't show to the
I realize that there are lots of They want us to have skills.
within the legislature, so I varied and different people
about them like one body. But we haven't made that case.
We haven't made that case.
And the lack of sense of a Cory's absolutely right.
upset about their individual collective is why people get so
about what's actually happened compensation and don't talk
We're upset about salaries and to moral around here.
students, to solve those we turn to other individuals, to
entire unified front has eroded, problems, rather than saying our
shame. and that's really what's a
And I agree with Todd that we don't have nearly enough scholar
activists on this campus taking the work that they do in their
offices to the streets. I won't agree with you, though,
that it's not happening.
use my own department just I happen to know, I'm going to
department, Doug Harris, one of bemy colleagues who wey
unfortunately are going to be losing, has been spending a lot
of time at the Department of
Milwaukee trying to help Public Instruction and in
I've been to a few events around Milwaukee Public Schools.
heck of a lot of time worrying the state myself and spend a
My colleague, Gloria about the rest of the state.
Harry does so. Ladson-Billings does so.
There's a huge number of ways in Mike Olneck does so.
time doing that kind of work. Is it exactly the kind of work
that you hope to see or agree with politically?
I don't know. But I think what's important is
that we do leave our offices, and we do tell students that
it's important to leave this
You need to know that we get campus and to go out elsewhere.
And I think Allie's starting to repercall it back.that.
I know it very, very well what
controversial issue in this happens when state.e takes on a
You get told that you are being political.
You get told that it's
professor at this institution inaand to have an attitude or a
particular opinion. You get questioned as to whether
you're supposed to be protesting.
It doesn't become a Badger to get arrested publicly
protesting. Actually, I think that's the
definition of a Badger. Whenever that changed, that's
when we lost it because going out and taking what you know
from your learnings and your
from your research to the cstreets, to the people of theow
state, that's what we're
The one other thing I want to raise is that there is an.
unfortunate attitude, and it is inculcated from the moment that
students set foot on this campus
get here, that we are to be aninternationally recognized.lty
And you don't get internationally recognized
by focusing on the issues of Stout and Racine and etc.
In fact, if you study Wisconsin,
you're told, wow, you're studying that very,
white and very Midwestern state,
the rest of the nation, and it's and it has nothing to do with
So that's a problem. hard to get famous doing that.
other incentives to ensure that Buthe faculty and the studentsd
do focus on the issues of the state, and we're going to need a
lot more than a bus tour around the state, one that I'm happy to
be going on this year but that I
that far north, and then I'm understand isn't even taking me
on a tour. afraid we're going to sort of be
professors, aren't they cute? Look a[LAUGHTER]adison
I'm not cute. I have controversial ideas, and
I really hope that we get off the bus and really, really talk
to people about the way that
of us and why they think that. Kathy has about what they think
A lot of it's not. Some of it's true.
for us. But nIt's on us to do it. this
So thank you. [APPLAUSE]