cc >> Jeanan Yasiri: This is
Entrepreneurship in Society.
through the University It's a course that's offered
of Human Ecology. oI'm Jeanan Yasiri.
As we begin today, I would like to extend thanks to our partners
in providing and supporting this course: the UW Office of
Corporate Relations, the UW College of Engineering for their
technical support, and financial
the Ewing Marion support that's provided through
They are committed to advanced Kauffman Foundation.
entrepreneurship. I'd also academic education in
partners, Wisconsin Public like to thank our media
Place crew for taping Televisitoday's lecture.versity
I'm really please to introduce
Hurley. He is co-owner our special guest today, Phillip
Marigold restaurants of Sardine and
We're going to hear all about those properties.
Just as some background, Phillip
degree in management and finance grew up in Chicago and earned a
traveling Europe and Northern Africa that really initiated his
love of culture and what
brought him to us today here. He tells me that he's spend
countless hours in cafes while
to reflect on his experiences lduring his youth cooking withme
his mother, an Italian woman who
actually helped in starting his 23-year career in the culinary
industry. Phillip's career includes time
working in the kitchen as well
vibrant restaurants in San as out front in a number of
returned to Chicago and the kitchen again in some upscale
food retail and catering
eventually meet his business experiences where he would
today. A few years partner who he remains with
together in the late '90s, they decided to move their love of
food along with their families
interesting story to to tell about that. an
And that's when they
About six years ago, Phillip started Marigold Kitchen.
partner, opened Sardine restaurant as well, and they
will open their third restaurant
Now, I've asked Phillip to come and talk with us today as we're
kind of grounding ourselves in
share with us how you can ecreate a business plan that'so
successful but also do
And we're going to start by actually, Phillip and I are
going to start by having
background, and then, of course, a conversation about his
questions from our students. as always, I'll open it up for
SoPhillip Hurley. [APPLAUSE]ng
Phillip, you and I have had a chance to get to know
each other and talk about your
especially with students, they're very interested in what
you studied and how you got started, and I think you kind of
have an interesting story to
provided insights on what your tell about whether or not that
Philip Hurley: As you've career eventually became.
a lot of time cooking when I referred to earlier, I spent
making eggs and doing whatever was a youngster with my mom
I could for the family. I I remember gathering with,n
I always thought it was so
of grandparents together normal to have both sets
I didn't realize until later for every holiday.
realized that never really happened for us.,
But there we did and we had these big tables and everyone
celebrated together. So that sort of spawned this
interest. But as I was
played music, I did a lot of going to school, I
school and whatnot, and my things creatively through high
something with the arts. And mother said you should go into
and said I should go into finance, and so I remember going
for my orientation in the school
I feel like you wouldn't be this and was completely unprepared.
where they said, okay, I way today, but that was then
We drove to Miami University, which is in Ohio, and at one
point they said, okay, you have to declare your major, and I
remember thinking I wasn't
ridiculous but prepared to do that which seems
And so I put finance down just that's what it was.
a good job. And so that becauswas my dad's sort ofou get
influence, and so as I was going
education but I always felt ta little bit out of place.d
I wasn't super passionate about it, and yet, at the same time,
there were great
Most of what we had talked about courses within there.
worked in the community that before, most of the people who
universities that had real life experience that brought to the
table what it is
So it was translated directly, to work out there.
experiences. So it and they gave real life
business degree to have understood, having taken finance
and accounting and all of that, I guess I look back at that and
know that it has helped me to some degree, but it wasn't until
after college I had a sense that
during my senior year, everyone at was putting their tieswas
and jackets, on and they were going to these job fairs,
and I remember thinking,
I couldn't believe I this is ridiculous.
I didn't feel connected to would have to do that.
And I thought, I think I might that. And so I never did.
and I think I might like to open want to do something in cooking,
owner. And so we had a lot ofn
entrepreneurs in my family. My
had all of their own businesses dso I never really thoughtth
corporate direction after college was a direction I was
going to go. >> You decided to travel,
though, right after school, and that kind of piqued some of your
interest in diversity and culture, as you said.
Can you talk a little bit about that and how it ties back to
where you are today? >> In going to travel, I was
sort of set out to think that I would really find what I wanted
to do. I'd also have a lot of fun
traveling and experiencing this,
over was that I was kind of drawn into the cities and thed
cafes. I didn't have
traveling. I stretched any money to be
could and realized that it was it as long as I
These little cafes and coffee shops or little restaurants or
whatnot, street food, I would go
could, and you would find that and eat street fare wherever I
centers where people were hanging out outside gathering.
It sort of just reinforced that I thought this was where I want
to be, and conversation was happening and it was just a very
vibrant atmosphere and an exciting atmosphere to be in.
I was young and yet I felt like I was part of something bigger
at that time. We also on
cousins that are from Italy and so I was able to go and travel
and be there in their homes, and
and I didn't speak Italian very sowell at all, and they didn't,
speak any English, most of them,
two-hour luncheons that were so we'd have these drawn out,
would just bring plate after weren't communicating but they
wouldn't be eating, they'd just watch me eat.
And so I just realized that it was just something that I
thought was special, and I
it was always the food that you saw there was a connection, the
culture was sort of driven from that at the table and building
sort of a community with that.
to the US after having traveled abroad and kind of experienced
that part of life, and did you
were interested in establishing juyour own enterprise, gettingou
involved in the food industry?
I came back and I had a bit of How did that transpire?
school loans, and so I needed a job and so I worked on in sales
for industrial sales and sold forklifts and forklift parts and
services to go with that. >>
while? >> I did, I You did go corporate for a
I remember went for my did but knowing.
stays for one year, they'll ibe in the forklift industry,
and I remember I was listening
but I need to pay my debt. to that going this is crazy,
you'll be a Clark Lift guy He said, you stay two years,
And knowing that was full well, I had a plan just to pay
off my debt and kind of move on.
I worked at night. I But it was a great experience.
kitchens in Chicago. And so I would be done, whenever
I finished my day, and rushed down, change clothes and head
down and work in the kitchen or work in the front of the house
doing some various jobs. >> And it sounds like you did
that more out of fun
Did it become more of tha passion for you?h.
At that point I was realizing that I wanted to get experience
because I knew that we were planning, my fiance at the time,
we were either planning on
the coast in the United States. movAnd Italy didn't pan out, on
but we ended up moving to San Francisco, so I was working
in evenings to gain some
out to San Francisco and feel elike I had something to puto
on my resume so I could try to get into a kitchen
and start working out there.
it's interesting how you go back and forth from, at various
points in your career you were
points you were out front. Talk a little bit about that and
then some of your experiences in
were in some very vibrant places that taught you a lot.
I think I understood the fact that, if you don't know cooking
then you don't have anything in this business.
If you don't fully understand cooking, I think that's the
ground work to running
It's just what you need to a business in food.
But I also needed to know and I was also very interested in the
business side of it. I was
management side. In this very interested in the
small restaurateur, you wear all business, and me being a
you're running the human the hats, from marketing and
doing your own graphic design at resource department, you're
plans. I knew that times, you run your own business
be a lot more than just cooking so be successful in this.
So I would work, my first job was out there.
I thought it was fantastic, and I remember showing up in a tie
and looking sharp, and the
after he hired me I thought, kitchen guy looked at me and
experience and he said, well, you got a tie on and you're from
the Midwest, we had to hire you.
be, no one comes to an interview We knew that you were going to
thought that I was going in the kitchen like that, and he
And we're still friends now, and to take it seriously.
day. But he hired he's ame and I remembero this
thinking I'm coming and I'm working with about four
different countries represented around this big table.
And it was a big food retailer
the daytime. We cooked, in BerI got there at 6:30 during
in the morning and cooked until 4:00, and then would leave and
then work in the front of the house on more of the management
side of a pretty acclaimed
so I stumbled into that. restaurant in San Francisco,
Lots of lessons, obviously, learned in those San Francisco
places. Zuni's was a
mentioned and what as special about that and what did you
learn there? >> Zuni, it was sort of one of
the landmark places and it still
even physically is todwhere it's located., just
The chef trained under
Never went to culinary school but she did an exchange program
when she was in college,
She was very bright and brought this angle of how sort of
intelligent it is to do food and
And this was the ultimate tohang out in San Francisco.s.
You would have everyone show up.
The mayor would be there, just
would be all kinds of really anyone, any prominent, there
suin. Other chefs would there.ng
So I could sense that it was
but it was the ultimate sort of gathering spot for San Francisco
at the time. And as good as they were, they
were a little bit awkward, the owners.
And I felt comfortable. So
talked to my wife and I said I I remember I came home and
I was working for two weeks but hunderstanding that it meant at.
lot to be sort of a Midwesterner
jobs that they were trustworthy, who worked hard, who worked two
So I was able to get in with the and they saw me as that.
the day and at night I owners on a level, cook during
then head maitre d'. And worked as a maitre d',
of the restaurant and so in charge of a lot.face
And you're also behind the
so you got really delved scenes chatting with the owners,
And so I learned quite into the guts of the place.
Were you consciously trying to teach yourself about
developing your own enterprise
food industry? >> I think or hit's a little bit of the
both. My wife used
whenever we'd go to a restaurant to cringe because
while, I would always try or ato hunt down the owner.worth
Always. And I'd always be like, who's
the owner? Are they in here?
And I invariably would be embarrassed because I'd ask a
manager and they'd be like, no, I'm not the owner.
I'd be like, are you the owner? But I wanted to understand what
they did, just pick up
fun being in the business, it was a ton of work, hard work.s
So as fun as that can be, it's
existence. Looking late hours, it was a crazy
necessarily wish to repeat it necessarily, but having had the
experience where I am now,
But I think it was a it was a lot of fun.
I enjoyed doing it. It was little bit of both.
It's a business that fun learning constantly.
You only know so much. I you continue to learn.
cooking, and I've been know this much as far as
But it was also picking up with the idea that at some point, I
said I wanted to be 30 when I opened my first restaurant.
I wanted to be 30. I don't
that was my goal. I didn't know why I had that, but
I really wanted to just find out make it, by the way.
I wanted to understand how and gather as much information.
I wanted to understand how to salt our own meat and cure own
cod in the back kitchen. I
always asking questions, did all of that, and I was
You moved back from the west coast to the Midwest.
Tell us about that. >> I
moved back was my wife was think the biggest reason we
and we decided we wanted to come pregnant with our first child,
She's from Ohio. I'm back to be where family was.
wanted to come back. We thought, actually, when we
were living in San Francisco we came back to Madison because we
thought this would be an
to come to. Somewhere interdifferent to Chicago.ally,
We went back to Chicago for about five years, and I didn't
want to work nights because I wanted to be available for my
son and to be present. And
of a challenging job on the soNorth Shore in Chicago.nd
And we stayed there for five
here. But that was another great
experience, different experience, more administrative,
more pressure on hitting numbers
But still creating the food and running a kitchen, a fairly good
sized kitchen there. >> And,
involved in the food aspect as well as administrative.
And it was in Chicago where you met your business partner,
John Gadau. >> Yeah.
My wife and I bought an old turn
we were looking for renters and I was sitting on the front porch
and he walked up and he said he always admired this building and
he ended up renting from me.
I lived on the third floor. And Hhe was a chef and so was I,.
but we didn't talk about food or
And then at one point, which I what we did for a few months.
we potentially get along, because people in this business
love to talk about themselves,
big of themselves and they especially the chefs think
They can, I'm not saying have kind of big egos.
And the fact that we didn't talk about it forever or
care to share our experiences of San Francisco.
He was in LA at the same time that I was in San Francisco, and
our experience
And we came back to Chicago, paralleled each other.
And it was there we were having a couple of beers one night, and
he was hanging out with us
experiences. And it was theuncanny how we viewedour
food, how we viewed business, what our thoughts were about
going into this business, our trepidation of even doing it on
our own, and all of that. And we hit it off as friends
first, for sure, and it wasn't
decided to make for a cthe move up here. that we
Having a friend who could become a business partner, did
it boost your confidence level
establish your own in your thinking that you could
Yeah, I think having, I don't know if I'd want to be in this
business without a partner, and I also probably underestimated
at the time what a good partner is to a business, to starting
your own business. It's absolutely a huge support
system. We brought to the table
different set of talents. Maybe not knowing exactly what
they were then but maybe
But, yeah, you can lean on more exposed now.
by, get nervous about things. When you're putting a business
together, there's a lot of
that can creep in there, but if you have someone, as I do with
my business partner, it made
It was a great connection it excto have met him.ting.
So the two of you met in Chicago.
You each had your families there.
You mentioned that you and your wife had visited Madison as you
were contemplating where to come
eventually, both families relocated to Madison, but you
never lived here
Just instincts. >> You before. Why Madison?
dihere. >> No, I know.on
And we didn't do much research. People, I think you even asked
me before, did you do a little market survey?
We did nothing. We just came up here and had a
sense of what was here, what
We thought we could bring something fresh and different.
But more importantly, Wisconsin,
want to go have fun. We lived it'in Illinois, it's likeyou
everyone came up to Wisconsin to
recreate outside. And so go to a lake or to enjoy or to
university town and being the capital, we feel it offered,
there was just a phenomenon happening here that doesn't
happen everywhere in the Midwest.
The size of the community and yet we had a sense that it
embrace small business. And it felt right.
And so we decided to move. >> The two restaurants that you
and John have right now, first
Capitol Square, and then Marigold's Kitchen down near the
you opened up Sardine. Let's eventually six years later,
because they're different restaurants, I'd like you to
talk about each of
Start with Marigold's and, them distinctly.
established and why that again, how getting it
what didn't, as you locatigot things started. maybe
We looked at one location for both restaurants.
We knew they were right. John had just gotten married and
hadn't moved up yet and I was sort of scouting out locations,
and I saw this one. The road had been closed so I
didn't see that there was this property open.
And so I had gone up there a
sudden this fence was down and I number of times and all the
met with the developer. And saas I met with him, we werend
chatting and he said, he goes,
And I said I live on well, where do you live?
And he said so do I. the near west side.
I said this area, the AMonroe Street area.a?
Oh, so do I. And then he said what street?
I said Pickford. He goes I live on Pickford
Street. I hadn't
I thought this is it. This is the right felt.
I just felt we had a
He showed me the space and it felt right, the right size.
And it's worked for us. And so we just saw that, we
looked at others but this is the
And it has worked out. one we really thought was right.
pretty busy since Marigolthe day we opened.'s been
It's a perfect size in the
when sometimes when it's not. So sense that it feels busy, even
the perception that when you're always busy. have
And that's good. But it's not necessarily always
true. But that's the
good location that doesn't have to fit the concept, and the
concept of breakfast and
And we do quite a lubit of catering.s.
It needed to feel busy. We
and it felt welcoming and fresh dand a combination of new and
old. The older tables and older kind
of antique things in a newer
Now, do I recall that the concept of a breakfast and lunch
place also fit best into
Absolutely. >> I think your personal life as well?
piece to bring up. >> It that's an important
thought we'd run a certainly started, we
bwould be it. And we'd cater.t
We wouldn't do nights anymore.
go out on the lakes and do all We'd have our families and we'd
thahere in Wisconsin. We did.te
We worked but with that is it's a ton of hours.
When you start your own business, you work an enormous
amount of time and
But it's still different than doing a place in Chicago or LA
or New York. We're three
live. We shut down miles from where I
we do tons of catering and work late into the evening sometimes.
It did work. We didn't
great project for two new entrepreneurs that didn't know
everything about business, and
could kind of digest it was small enough that we
And so physically and financially it was a smaller
project to start out which was
was a smart choice easier to manage for us, so it
Before I open it up to the to do that first.
about Sardine. It's a studvery different concept bit
and a very different feel.
Aafter Marigold's? >> Five.s
Five years. >> Sardine
Monona, and it's a much bigger place than Marigold.
It's an evening restaurant, and we serve brunch as well, but
it's more of a French inspired bistro.
And it's a lot of what John and I have experienced out in
California. And he cooked in Europe as well.
It's always for the best of. You
of what you have. The tkitchen is designed from a
kitchen he worked in LA. The
People who know where we've come front has a sense of Zuni.
these things came from. But frit was a big operation. of
8,000 square foot restaurant as opposed to 2,000 that Sardine
was. We have 65-70 employees at
Sardine and 25 at Marigold. So
bigger investment, much itbigger risk to take on.nd
But the similarities of the two are that we look at creating our
spaces too. It's not
It's certainly not just about us just about food.
shake hands with people and and want to be known.ound,
We do know PR about us. It's
when you walk in the door. To understand that the lighting,
the design, the music, the style
there, the kitchen, they all of service, the people working
experience. And I havthink people who canan
appreciate both Marigold
We have a real clientele that shows up, and they're just as
much a part of the design of the
it sometimes, but they want to place, and they don't even know
who's there. And it can look be kind of a scene iny see
a very good way. Some real
in. >> I am going to take this
microphone off and start to use this one as I walk around to the
students so that they can ask questions of you, Phillip.
And I think I'll start
I'm kind of curious, as you, just by throwing one out.
that, you started small, sort of, with Marigold's even though
it was an interim success, and
eventually we'll talk about theyour third property.nd
Have you learned anything that
as you've been expanding you just couldn't have imagined
Well, initially we weren't your enterprises?
that's something that you realize is that we don't move
that quickly at anything that we do.
We are fairly methodical
We kind of go from instincts in our decision making.
So I don't think we ever thought when we make a decision.
But then you realize that you need new challenges, and you
have people who are pushing you and want you to expand, and I
think we ultimately knew that our heart and passion was in
evening night cooking and having
energy there that Marigold a bar and creating a scene and
And so I think the idea of wasn't able to do.
that we decided to move on and expanding itself was a big deal
And, actually, the size of the do the venture that we did.
we thought we'd do, but we place was, I think, bigger than
Madison. They needed thought it was right for
create the kind of a place that big to
Hi, I'm Amanda. Thank enviyou for being here.o do.
Hi. Thank you.
My question is kind of broad. Can you maybe just talk a little
bit about what you
Do you spend most of your time do on a daily basis?
that work? >> That's in the restaurants or how does
It depends. Right now because we're planning
another restaurant, we spend a
meetings than I ever lot of time in meetings, more
In the beginning, we imagined I'd be in.
For five years at Marigold we were in the kitchen every day.
We'd be there probably at 5:30
anywhere from 7:00 to in 9:00 if we had catering.ave
So we did a ton of kitchen work all the time, and we trained
people. What sort of
expanding you have to change changed is that by
You have to hand the reigns what over to other people.b is.
You have to train those people
someone else to do what you're because if you're not teaching
forward. And there's doing, then you're not going
or progression that just happens a sense of progress
People want to grow. You because you're doing a good job.
So there's this sort of cycle that you go to..
But I'm at both restaurants every day.
I spend more time at Sardine, certainly, right now.
I'm in the kitchen two
We're there in the day. We nights a week there.
we can in the kitchen, try to spend as much time as
We've got great talent but it's difficult.
So we're working on fine tuning. right now at both places.
couple, few years ago it was When the economy just dumped a
our investment into Sardine. So vit was some sleepless nights.n
So what we had to do was kind of
better. So we spent recalia lot of time andt we do
energy figuring out how do we get our costs down without
changing the value
So we would look at every invoice and dig through.
We'd look at our labor costs. We'd look at everything.
It's so much more than the
much more than the kitchen. And, kitchen, and every day it's so
a lot of time on is the I ghuman resource aspect.nt
When you have more than five
75 employees, every day employethere's something.ards of
Every day there's something,
someone, discussion with some discussion to have with
We have a wonderful staff at your manager about someone.
while to get there. bothWe do a little bit ofen a
everything. We spend
kitchen, but we spend a lot of some time in the
the next venture, talking about where the bar is going to go,
what the ceiling, what the
to be, are we going to have desiceiling fans, how manyoing
employees, who's going to run the kitchen for this place.
So that's sort of a broad answer to a broad question.
Thank you. >> You're welcome.
Hi. My name is Michael.
I was just wondering, you didn't
and open a second restaurant think you were going to expand
What's your favorite part about opening a new place of business
and do you think maybe
Thank you. That's mora good question.re?
We don't want to have a ton of restaurants.
We don't have that
This second one was because it kind of drive.
and it was more what was so different than Marigold,
So that one, maybe it was inevitably, we just sort of
denied thinking that we were going to do it.
In fact, every morning when we'd
fruit salad for the case for be cutting quiche and cutting
other and go, you know, we were talking about doing the night
place. Does it feel good?
And we were like, no, we're never doing that.
We'd be so tired all the time.
taken a while, it's taken five But once we did it and now it's
to a fact we don't have yeto be there all the time.ing
I don't know if there'd be any more.
This just seems right right now.
told me recently, you said you And I can't see, someone just
I don't remember saying that but were going to stay small.
worry about having a I do remember not wanting to
But this ones is a case, we're lot of restaurants.
It's nice to be able to give bringing a partner from Sardine.
more. I have people peoplewho have familieso learn
now that have bought homes, and it feels great to be able to
have done that. And we
another place. And we've did that by opening
a third place is allowing someone who was going to be an
owner on his own now can come along with us and be a great
asset to us but also have a lot less risk than what we went
through. And he's got a family, and he
can't take that risk right now. I hope I answered your question
with that. >> I actually
on that question. It was want to dovetail
fact that, as I mentioned, you partially based on the
ahead of class, and you made the and I got to sit down and chat
run a business not a company. staAnd I thought that was ane to
interesting comment. Can you
think that it means very expand on that because I
asked. >> I guess similthe feeling we haveudent
is that you have two ways of
go out and get outside investors going into business, and you can
you. I think we had and thea sense early ons with
that we didn't want to give away
to anyone else so that we couldn't make our own decisions.
So we took all the risk ourselves, and we did that,
basically with Sardine, we have a smaller partner at Sardine but
by doing that we aren't working for anyone else and we don't
have a board that we have to run our decisions past.
If you open more restaurants and
have a company that's running yourestaurants as opposed toyou
running an individual business. Our philosophy is that we want
to be attached to it. It doesn't feel great.
Marigold, when we opened
to get back to Marigold and Sto do what we needed to do.lt
And so it felt a little strange.
animosity between the staff that We felt like there was a little
now we weren't there anymore. That has sort of balanced out
and we're more
They're more comfortable because comfortable in our role.
But we want to keep it small they're stronger in their roles.
name and we know about them enoand they know about us.ne's
It's probably as
I'm Erica. Thank you simple as that. >> Hi.
This is a little unrelated. Well, I have two questions.
The first is, at Marigold's,
mostly college students, what your clientele is, is it
professors/locals? And grad students, or just
Marigold's, what's your specialty omelet and what's your
number one selling our your personal favorite omelet?
[LAUGHTER] >> Personal favorite?
It's the corn chorizo omelet. And sort of the sad thing about
that is those omelets haven't really changed since we started.
We were doing them in our kitchen at home and we just
liked them and they sort of stuck and we realized people are
passionate about their omelets
change. But it's and they don't want them to
omelet. And the first part of your
question, I'm sorry I lost my train of thought, I got caught
in omelets there. What was
question again? >> the first part of your
Oh, yeah, the clientele. Like, your clientele.
It's an incredible It's everyone.
During the week, it's a lot of cross-section.
A lot of people from the Capitol people who are working downtown.
People in businesses that are downtown, and of course people
travel there. Weekends, there's many more
college students come in, and we saw that was discovered, we
could almost put a date on when there was a first group of
college students that came to Marigold and they brought more
college students. Because we were going, we don't
have any college students here. And we were sort of appealing.
We were younger then so we felt like we were maybe closer to
college than we are today for sure.
And so one of our concepts
Francisco that was a was there was a place in San
loved and that played their bremusic inordinately loud.we
And we loved it. And so when we started, our
first day no one came in and
So an empty restaurant and the we had the music really loud.
playing, like, The music is too loud and we were
It was totally a Rolling Stones.
And people walked in and were like why, the first person was
like what are you doing with the music so loud?
And they weren't college
then. But now we have studena lot of collegeing in
students that come during the week, on the weekends a lot of
college students. A lot of families on the
weekend. I think
cross-section. I think it's a real Madison
one time, I know Governor Doyle, it's fun because at any
be there. You'd have when he was in office, he would
politicians that you'd have in. One of the coaches would show
up. And it was a blast.
It still is. And that's why this business is
fun for us because we have
allHi. I'm Rex Oster.n.
My question was, thanks again for coming.
Thanks for having me. >>
fast, what makes yours a rarity? Restaurants go up and down so
I think it's because we fully, You have three going on.
where we were. We ididn't rush into it.
First of all, we knew cooking,
concept. We had countless and we hmeetings abouta of our
what we wanted this place to
managing our staff. It's be, how we wanted to approach
think, when you're the bigger picture, I
It's not just the business, it's about, well if you have a
partner, do you agree on, because that could just be the
demise of you business right
doesn't work, and therthey often don't.ship
I think it's truly understanding
understanding you have a passion your concept and truly
in it and you don't waver. There for what you do and you believe
should change or we'd have were times we felt like we
different. This is customers say you should do this
do this different. You ridiculous, you should
When it was the Atkins diet everyone kept saying you've got
go to an Atkins menu. And we're like, that sounds
horrible. I don't even know what to do
with that. We love
[LAUGHTER] And we didn't waver from
the core of our business
We knew better than the customer and really haven't.
time doing. We knew becauwhat flavors workednt our
together. We knew that
It's not that we didn't make this should work.
the experience we had. And I mistakes, but we stayed true to
you open a restaurant. You think it stems long before
you're doing, you makeset the groundwork.r job
And John and I both did well at the jobs we did.
No matter how menial or how grandiose they were, you
excelled, and you created sort
choices, places to work, people you want to be surrounded with
and learn from them. And
to open something and sort of stay true to what your vision
was. I think that's what's been our
success. >> Thanks
My name is Matt. So, I for being here.
future progress. What have you seen done in the
way of incorporating your consumer base for developing
your menu or do you ever offer
things that you make? Reading coyour menu and things, Ihe
found myself being very hungry for your items.
Good. >> So just
in the way of incorporating wonyour consumers. do
Incorporating consumers in
don't do too much of that in the menu development we probably
have a sense of sensewhat we want to do.rt of
If they're showing up and they're eating it, we know we're
doing something right. And
listen to our staff quite a bit, then we'll tell, but we
because we're not often talking to the customer ourselves often.
We do, certainly, but these are people who are servers.
They have a big, important
they're bright and they're decision and they're sharp and
They are, our bartenders, everyone, they know what's going
on. And we create the environment
for them to talk and to have an influence on, when we sit and
have our meetings, we have
managers and then we have meetings quarterly with ourr
entire staff. And they're a meeting where we
have dinner together
We have a little wine and then we talk.
And then we have an open forum
feedback. It's not for them to give us their
want to hear but it's the right feedback.
As far as incorporating, I think
that in the sense of just we consumers, we don't do a ton of
people are coming in and know we're doing it right if
We do more social networking. We have managers who are
connecting with the customers more than we ever did through
Facebook, through a lot of emailing.
We have mixed things up in the
people in. We do family last costyle dinners on bring
Monday nights every couple of months which is something that
really has brought in, we realized sometimes by doing
these little projects we get direct feedback.
Are we doing it right or not? And people are loving it.
It's something that was spawned from tough economic environment.
We offered something that was inexpensive, or a good value I
should say, and allowed people
hang out at these big 20-seated to sotables in our place.e and
We did fondue dinners. We found that that was one way
to bring in the customers.
little ownership in our place and felt like this is something
that they want to support. I'm
your question? >> Thanks.
Okay. >> Hi.
I'm Amelia Hoffman. One thing I've realized that's
most important with entrepreneurs in starting new
business is to have clear leadership in making all the
decisions. I know you said you have a
partner, and do you make most of
of you do one part of the ybusiness, another do anothere
part or how do you guys work together as a team?
My partner John Gadau and I are very similar in our cooking.
Some had more experience cooking
We differed a little bit, but we both have grown together.
We were just talking about this.
make most of the Part of our strength is that we
We make a little bit more separate or apart because we
know how the other one is going to think or respond to
something. So big decisions we always make
together. It has been our strength that we
put everything, we run by anything that's coming up.
We run by problems with employees we've had, or
challenges we are together quite a bit.
Neither one of us runs one
We naturally sort of will do area over the other one.
But I feel like he has brought things we're more interested in.
weaker in as a business person, as a cook, and I feel like I've
probably done the same for him. We're better because of our
partnership. And so a lot of this, Jeanan
asked me that. She said,
or you run separately, do you complement each other?
Everyone says we
Sometimes we can't see complement each other.
We enjoy each other. We have a blast as partners.
But we also fumble over each
is maybe our success too other in decision making which
We're on the same page with just because we're just on page.
every day that we start a abnew day thinking that way.re
I'm going to dovetail on
It was a great one. thThank you, Amanda.l.
I'm curious about your
partner's personality. You're perkind of different peopless
in that respect, and that may really serve as a complement.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Well, I think we both want to have fun.
That sounds sort of light maybe,
that. You got to, thin, first of all, beabout
passionate about what you're
have fun doing it, then doiit's not worth doing.an't
And we laugh a lot, and we enjoy each other.
And I think sometimes if I'm
a little more intense about it, hihe's able to just diffuse myd
thought or just even say, oh, it's fine, don't worry about it.
And I want to hear that. And
I think we're very vice versa if he does that.
We are very compatible. But the similarities in that we
agree on the big things, we agree on what's important.
We're not driven by how much
Sometimes we've had to refocus money we can always make.
doing this. We can't and go we've go to make money
doing. We've got to jmake it happen fore
everyone else. But we are two different people
and I think we naturally give ourselves the space that's
needed, and I think the way he
the way I respond to them might rbe different but they're the
same on the big picture. >> We talk about overarching
themes in this class. One of them being taking risk,
and it certainly is something that all entrepreneurs have to
consider at some point
Can you think about one of the and experience.
have had to take and share with bus your experience in gettingn
through it successfully or not? >> I think the biggest risk is
the first step to try to open a business.
We really didn't
In fact, we had, like, no money to put down on our first
business. And you have nothing and you
have this business plan and you go to different banks and some
banks just didn't want
And one bank did, and they made a decision overnight and called
and said we'll finance you
experience behind us. becaWe had been doing this.y of
We weren't kids. We had a really strong business
plan. But the risk
first step to say you're going is taking that
to own it and even though you tthink you're prepared and young
make this business plan, I think
I remember when we thought we were having the busiest week of
our lives and I remember this one day when I looked at the
register and thought
This was like in our now we're in it.
And I looked and we were just shy of what our break even point
was on our business plan. We
we thought how am I going had bto stay in business? and
You just think, it's just making
If you look ahead too far and think there's so many reasons of
why not to go into business for yourself, there's so many
reasons why not to do it, but if
your own boss, you can do it, but you have the experience and
the confidence. The experience that you had with
all the jobs prior make a difference when you do it
because you feel like when you
least I can work harder and I'll believe in yourself at the very
employees fairly. They'll make want to work for me.at my
So I guess it is that, it's the risk of the first place.
The second place was a much bigger financial investment, and
in that sense, bigger risk. But we had a customer base that
was built in already, and we
But you never stop learning. were busy when we started.
day. You just are hedging risk
differently now. >> Well, I'm going to ask just
one final question and that is
Is there anything that you very much about the future.
enterprise? It's scheduled can tell us about your third
and in my backyard. We're very excited.
It's going to be very different than both Marigold and
Sardine. It's going to be very casual.
It's going to sort of harken the
fish house meets Wisconsin. There's going to be TVs in there
which we're super happy to have because it's on the way to Camp
Randall. We want to tap into that market
a little bit. Where Sardine is a place that I
think a lot of people enjoy,
come there just because a French there's people that will never
or they don't want. Each bistro, they don't relate to it
and more and our business is year we reach out to more
that I think anyone growiwould want to go to.place
It's a joint. It's a hang out.
The food's going to be comfort food.
It's going to be kind of driven from our experience of some of,
John's dad was a big
That was one reason why we cook and a Francophile.
spawned the idea. And spamy mom was Italian, soe,
they have this blend of sort of comfort food that we have done
but really based around kind
family-friendly. Since of a big, fun bar scene and
neighborhood, there's a lot of families.
We want it to be a place you can
food, and some unhealthy food I should say too, but that tastes
great but in an environment that's just playful and fun and
low key. >> Well, I can assure you that
our neighborhood is looking very
know the students join me in forward to welcoming you, and I
joining us today. >> Thank you.
[applause]