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>> Beth Lemke: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Wisconsin Historical Museum.
We're very pleased to present as part of our
the Dane County Cultural Affairs Commission, History Sandwiched In series, with funding and support from
Lambeau and Lucius Fairchild Stuart Stotts, who's going to blend in the story of the Curly
for us today. II'd greatly appreciate it. a warm welcome to Stuart,
Stuart Stotts: Thank you all [APPLAUSE]
so much for coming here today. I am going to be blending Lucius
the metaphor of marching down the field, whether it's the battlefield or the football field was as close as I couldn
get to finding some commonality between the two.
state over the course of their Clearly, both men worked to advance the interests of our
chronologically, and then we'll talk a little bit about Curly. So we're going to do Lucius first, just simply thinking
We'll definitely have an opportunity for questions so you
can be thinking about those.
And I, of course, am here because I have these two books that I wrote, "Badger
Biographies," and I will be reading little bits and pieces
of them just to kind of help the story go along.
So Lucius Fairchild.
When I was first asked to write this book, I did not know who he was.
He's not someone who's
well-known in our state unless you are from up north where Osseo-Fairchild is, a small
community or Fairchild Street right out here. And yet he's someone, I think,
service, sort of the mixed bag who exemplifies really public
that it is, the combination of ambition that's required to achieve public service, and yet
the concern for the public and
the greater good that I believe he also shared and promoted in his time.
So we'll jump into it here, and there we have a little picture
of the book. We'll come back to this painting
in a moment.
This is perhaps one of the reasons that Lucius Fairchild is
Let me go back to this. So Lucius was born in 1831, moved to Madison, born in Ohio, moved to Madison.
His father was kind of a guy who
[LAUGHTER] always had another idea for a business and usually wasn't successful.
Was bankrupt several times and kept this idea and
debtors prison at one point. that idea, actually went to
So he wasn't very successful. And as Lucius got older, he actually bailed him out
a few times.
Unfortunately, this is not my message, but for the kids here today, Lucius was not a very
good student. In fact, he left school at, I don't even know, maybe seventh
back. Do not take this as an example. He worked for a while. or eighth grade and never went
Madison, and yet he kind of had this desire for adventure which is common for people in that He was a county clerk here in
And he had this idea that out west things might be better. age.
going to head out. And so when gold was discovered out west, Lucius decided he was
And let me just read you a little bit about this.
Madison and he looks back and, First of all, he's leaving
in the book, and I unfortunately don't have it here, there's a picture of how small Madison was
at the time, 1852, I think, or
I did when I reached the college 1850, right in there. And he writes back and says never did a boy feel worse than
hill and turned around to take a last long look on the little
held dear on Earth. I felt, when I out of sight, village that held all that I
in the task and be a man. Isn't that like classic sort of tgoing out west, I will nerve and endeavored to nerve myself
So he's going out because he myself to the task.
to do that. So he goes out west and he got a He wanted to make money, and of course the gold rush was a way
train. little bit of money with some friends and they join a wagon
And I'd like to read you a short passage about what it was like
We are waked at half past three in the morning to untie the cattle to feed, then make a fire, and cook breakfast as soon
as possible.
We have fried meat, coffee, and bread. As soon as that's over, the
order is given to bring up the
cattle who, by this time, have filled themselves and laid down,
leading in his turn and then yoke up and start out each one
going to the last end of the train and work up to the head.
Make a dinner of cold pancakes Travel until noon and eat lunch.
till 4:00. cooked the night before-- Sounds delicious. Then smoke and start and go on
the way and cooking done for the Then camp whether we are near water or not. By the time we get supper out of
next day, it's time to go herd the cattle, let me eat until
ring. By this time, we are tired they lay down or tie them in the
clothes or loaf about reading. enough to go directly to bed so we don't have much time to mend
That's what it was like in the wagon trains. Just day after day after day
moving west.
So he gets to California. Now, this is not Lucius but it is a gold miner.
And you've probably seen images of this.
find gold. The guy with the pan in the stream sorting through trying to
And Lucius tried that for a while. Made a little bit of money but
the truth is far more gold
And Lucius wasn't really having miners cany luck.broke or You'd buy a claim, you'd work it actually made a lot of money.
somebody else. a while, you'd sell it to
So Lucius saw that actually the way to make money was not to pan gold but to sell things to those
who were panning gold.
So not everybody who got rich in He became a middle man and he sold beef mostly and made a tremendous amount of money.
the gold rush was a miner. Made a lot of money and you can sort of see here, this is just
an image of these are people, and they're out there working but they had needs and there was
A pair of boots might cost $200 out there. a tremendous inflation.
came back. Huge amount of money. And so Lucius made a pile and he
came back to Madison. Well, he tried to sort of figure America and with basically this big chunk of money in his hand,
out what to do but pretty soon after that what began was the
Civil War.
The Civil War. And Lucius had joined kind of the militia here, and so when it
became time to fight in the Civil War he joined up and he began to rise through the ranks.
and then became a colonel and all the way up. But what was interesting is that Began to start out as a private
have a higher rank and he turned at one point they wanted him to
it down. He said he didn't think he was
And this is something you see in ready.
Lucius all his life. Kind of ambition but not the
The ambition to say I don't really deserve that. ambition to say I want that.
Kind of like that. And that is how he rose, not
only through the military but also in politics. Now, Lucius was actually quite a
some of the people that you read competent leader compared to
about at that time. So they join up, they go out east and basically they sit
around out there for about a
year waiting, training, marching, cleaning their guns, waiting for there to be a
battle. And finally they actually get to
be in a battle, and Lucius was a great commander at that point.
So they're fighting Stonewall Jackson trying to trap him, and this is a description of what this battle was like.
Lucius was lying ill at the time. He heard the shooting, leaped up
His men cheered as he reached the front lines. and rushed into battle.
under him, but his men held their ground amid many They fought fiercely. Lucius' horse was shot out from
confusing. casualties. Civil War battles were often
Communication depended on Amimessengers and reports. it At one point in this battle, happening.
Robinson who commanded Lucius ran to find Colonel
the 7th Wisconsin regiment. Lucius said, for God's sake, colonel, deliver your fire
up to the left. We are all cut to pieces and the
enemy are advancing on us. Robinson gave the order.
A 7th Wisconsin soldier remembered it like this: Company
after company of Wisconsin soldiers came along the foot of
the slope and poured in their rifle fire right into the enemy's lines and they broke and
Who does not remember the cheer we gave. fell back.
Colonel Fairchild of the 2nd Another soldier recalled: I could distinctly see Lieutenant
Wisconsin working among and cheering up his men. Men who were shot were streaming
back from along the whole line. Our regiment was suffering more than it had been. In the history of war, it is
doubtful whether there was ever more stubborn courage than was
display by the 2nd and the 7th Wisconsin on this field of
battle. Lieutenant Colonel Fairchild was
under the hottest fire but escaped unhurt.
Lucius was lucky because many others died that day. At the end of the battle, Lucius
is the regiment? gathered his men and said where
Have they scattered? Someone replied, Colonel, this
the rest lay on the field. is all that's left of the 2nd,
Huge casualties, huge people lost in these battles, huge numbers so that regiments would
have to be combined to make a full regiment.
And there are a couple other So he's fighting now in the Civil War.
engagements, and again, if you've ever read Civil War
amazing the destruction and death that took place in these stuff, and I haven't read a lot,
battles. The hand-to-hand fighting and
the numbers of people hurt and
says when General Gibbon gave the order the rifles and canons For exbegan to fire.ey're talking about one battle and it
gaps in the rebel lines and piled the dead and mangled in rows like hay raked in a The blasts tore great bloody
The bullets came over our heads like a shower of hail stones. It was a terrible slaughter. hayfield.
of the 150 who had survived Brawner's Farm, only 15 were By the end of this battle, out
in that first battle that I wrote about were now here at still present for duty. 10% of the people who had been
developed a hatred for the this one. And as a result, Lucius
Confederates and the South. He said, he told his sister, I hope never to be ordered to take
a prisoner. I'd rather a dead rebel than a
live one, and if I ever have the chance, I'll have nothing but
dead ones.
internally with this hatred, Very strong sentiments. He'd seen his men cut down by the Confederates and replied
really. Now this will change so there is some redemption in this.
And yet that's where he was.
All right, so there are some battles, and then Lucius and his
of Gettysburg. men are marching to the Battle
Now, Gettysburg, of course, is famous for the Gettysburg Address delivered by Abraham
Lincoln.
was going to win even though so Many wouldmany died.s kind of the turn of the tide. It became clear that the North
rise at Willoughby Run, which is So they're marching towards Gettysburg and they march over a
one of the spots on the battlefield, and it says we're immediately met with volley
after volley of Confederate rifle fire. Almost a third of his 273 men were killed in those initial
volleys.
So right away close to a hundred men killed just by rifle fire.
which shattered his left arm Lucius was hit by a musket ball
above the elbow. Left arm. Lucius told his men not to take
him away. He wanted to stay to lead the fight.
him but they soon left him Confederate soldiers captured
behind after they retreated. Union soldiers later found him. They took Lucius into the town
of Gettysburg where he stayed at
a private home. The 2nd Wisconsin surgeon had to amputate Lucius' arm.
When Lucius awoke from the
operation he looked down and said thank God I still have one arm left.
As the battle continued, Lucius watched from the porch of the house.
soldiers as they ran by and he He shouted encouragement to the
wished he could return to the fight. For three days the battle raged
on. At times the smoke from the gun powder was so dense that it was difficult to see where the enemy
was.
It was as if a dense fog lay over the field. Bullets flew so thickly through
the air that tree trunks were blown to pieces.
The moans of the wounded and dying men mixed with rifle
volleys and canon fire. Soldiers fought close at hand with swords, bayonets and knives.
After the battle was over, those
who had survived told about the horrors they had seen. Now, what I find interesting
about this, many things, but one
the porch of a house watching is thatthe battle unfold.ut off his arm, the battle goes on for three days, and he's sitting on
"Go get them," right? It's very different than this image of this battle with very he's essentially saying.
the other side. Lucius is sitting there kind of in the heart of the battle at a clear baprivate home.d one on
How bizarre is that?
more than 8,000 men dead. AAnd yet as it was somethinge end oof a turning point. were more tAll right, well thiss and
is a painting.
You can just sort of see the smoke.
saw that shows a tree trunk riddled with bullets. The bullets were so thick that There's another picture that I
punctured. the tree was just sort of
And, of course, dead men lying on the fields everywhere. Everywhere.
Well, Lucius came back to Madison.
terms. He eventually married and was elected governor for three
It was three two-year terms. He had a particular interest in orphans and veterans affairs,
an interest in transportation,
the end of his third term the Peshtigo fire broke out. And he was, like I say, for three terms he was there, and at
Chicago fire had broken out. You may remember it was right about the same, just after the
So he went down to Chicago and he heard that this had happened and he raced back to Wisconsin
and worked day and night to raise money and make sure that
people had houses and were taken care of.
Even though his term was just ending. In fact, he didn't pay enough attention to helping his
successor to get elected. He was so involved with caring
fire. And again, here you see another for thimage of people. lost their homes in the Peshtigo
just ravaged the north. To me it's sort of a testament Just this incredible fire that
of what it was like, how much he cared about people, that that
was really his thing. Well, when he left being the
he has one arm. And when he was elected governor governor. You can see here in this picture
Vote for the man with the bloody they used this one-armedness as a big campaign slogan.
sleeve, kind of thing. They weren't shy about playing
And so he became well-known for that. He was well-liked, really, but on his military experience.
tired, is how I read it, and he wanted to go overseas. when he left he was kind of
And so he went overseas for more than 10 years.
He was in Spain.
He was in England, in Liverpool, kind of being a consult, a
Building the United States' interests, and there he is with one of his daughters in England. consulate kind of person.
thinking he might continue on in He returned, eventually,
the Grand Army of the Republic. And this is where we see That didn't work out for him. He became the head of the GAR,
evidence of Lucius' change because if you remember that
thing I read to you earlier about how I hope I never meet a southerner because I never want to take a prisoner and the only
good southerner is a dead one,
essentially. Later on there was a big
role for the GAR he went down there and this is what he said. When he talked to the eartConfederate veterans in his
Charleston he said I have no
bitter animosities and I know today if I should meet the soldier whose aim made this
armless sleeve, I would grasp his hand by the only hand he
left me and have no hard feelings toward him.
Quite a change, right?
famous portrait. Quite a change. And we remember him now perhaps as John Singer Sargent, very
This portrait is in the Historical Society down at the end down there.
I don't know how much it's
worth, but you can go in and take a look at it.
He talks about when he was It's a great portrait.
sitting for it, he said this great thing about it. He said so Mr. Sargent has been
here all morning but certain
windows had to be changed so that a proper light could be
amiable face of your husband. He told me he will want some 10 days. He's writing to his wife.d
And then he says he looked at the finished portrait and reported that it looked like a
bald headed man. lot of badges running off with a
[LAUGHTER] So that was his take on this
And he's sort of right about it, very famous portrait.
but anyway you can't argue with John Singer Sargent. He died.
He's buried over here in Forest Hill cemetery over off of Speedway, isn't that what it is?
there. So you can find his gravestone
And for us here today, just so we know, Lucius Fairchild was a huge supporter of the Wisconsin
Historical Society. He helped to get things started and believed very strongly in the mission of the Historical
Society.
So Lucius was great that way. All right. So there's a little bit, a very
sort of quick 20-minute Lucius Fairchild life.
have that I may or may not be able to answer? Before we go Yes.o Curly, are there any questions that you
from the operation, that means >> You said when Lucius awoke
they were able to give opiates and ether, and they didn't have to saw off limbs in the
battlefield without any anesthetic. Do I understand that correctly? They were able to put him under
for the amputation? >> That makes sense to me.
It's possible that he just passed out, too, or that they
gave him a whole lot of alcohol.
So I don't know the answer to your question, but it does clearly say that when he awoke
from the operation. So some way or another he lost
consciousness. Yes.
You said that he was head of
The veterans. tMy understanding maybe is that is the equivalent of that today the Secretary of the Army?
Administration. That's my understanding. it sort of became the big impetus for the Veterans
Yes. >> We heard previously that
Madison was sharply divided about the Civil War, do we
or was he a reluctant warrior? conclude that Fairchild supported the war and Lincoln
>> He supported it from the beginning. He had some reservations later
on about giving black people the
vote, for example. So that was kind of a political football being tossed back and
forth.
But my understanding is right from the beginning he was there. And they had then the draft but
people would be conscripted for a very short amount of time.
Three months, six months, that kind of thing.
So he was disgusted because he
three months everybody wants to recruited go home.e people, they're out there on the east coast marching around, and after
recruiting people and spoke quite vehemently about the So he did come back several times to play a role in
importance of the cause. Yeah, great.
Any other questions before we change focus to Curly Lambeau?
too. If you have other questions, we can come to those in a minute
Give me just a moment, I need to switch my PowerPoint because
PowerPoints. there are two separate
[LAUGHTER] So just close your eyes and pretend there's nothing happening here.
I will bring up the other one. There we go, that was pretty
All right, Curly Lambeau. Curly Lambeau. painless.
Now, Curly Lambeau is the reason we have the Green Bay Packers.
He's the reason that the Green
Bay Packers are still in Wisconsin, and I can't say
that happen. enough about what he did to make
That doesn't necessarily mean that Curly Lambeau was a great guy.
I once asked a sports writer
who knew both Vince Lombardi and Curly Lambeau.
I'm forgetting his name at the He was a sports writer,
moment, up in Green Bay for years. And I said if you had a choice
to go fishing for the weekend with Curly Lambeau or Vince Lombardi, which would you choose?
He said neither.
[LAUGHTER] So anyway, Curly Lambeau, sort of a mixed bag personally,
and yet he's clearly somebody really important to our state.
So there's a copy of the book. Born in Green Bay to immigrant
parents, and he was a sports guy
right from the beginning. His father was in construction and he loved football.
And, in fact, when he was very
young, what you have to understand about Curly Lambeau is that football was really not
much of a sport at the time.
The rules changed from place to There place. NFL. Games were completely pick-up games.
filled with gravel. That was their football. Curly played football when he was a child with a salt sack
And they'd throw it back and forth and they'd run with it.
But also in those days, football
was pretty much just a running game. You might have one or two passes
per game, maybe.
But really it was just the biggest guys facing off against the other biggest guys, and you
hand the ball to your strongest guy and you pushed each other.
The rules changed over time. And that's pretty much what football was.
And you can see here this is how footballs changed over time.
difference here. So you can just see the
This one versus this one. One of the things about a ball like that, it's harder to throw
it a long way.
You can't get that long spiral 60 yards down the field with a
So as time went by, the ball ball like that.
That was his thing. That's why he became successful. throwing because Curly loved to pass.
Now, he was an athlete when he was in high school.
He was a high jumper and a
And he had a girlfriend named Marguerite who he eventually He was just a great athlete and everybody knew it.
married. And you can see Curly is a good
looking guy.
And Curly was this guy, again by all accounts, a very gregarious fellow, well-met kind of thing.
Walk into the room, he loved to reach into his pocket later on
when he was more successful pull out a roll of bills buy
everybody a drink kind of thing.
One of those kind of guys. One of those guys who sort of ran the room.
So Curly went, he was very good at football and he went to Notre
about this is here you see he is Dame. And what's interesting to me
standing next to, Curly Lambeau is right there, see him there, and the person next to him was
named Frank Gipp which might
mean something to some of you. Win one for the...
Gipper, that's right. There he is. >> Gipper.
Knute Rockne. >> Knute Rockne. And, of course, on the far left you have...
Someone who radically transformed football and won, Perhjust won all the time. of all time, arguably.
he wasn't famous then. But this was early,
Curly got in on the ground floor there.
He did okay. He was just there for a year.
He wasn't a big star, but he did fine there playing. But he only went there for one
year, and then he became back home to work construction because he got sick and missed
So he came back and was working construction. Here you see a good looking fellow here.
But he played pick-up.
play. They'd have a little pick-up Whales. And this is how people would
suppose maybe go there, but they'd say do you want to play team and they'd call up Marinette and say, well call, I
next Saturday at 2:00? And whoever you could get to go
there and that's pretty much
what football was. Well, this is maybe like 1917,
Curly is about 20 years old, 1918, right around in there.
maybe. And then there's this thing that
They're going to start the happens.
Indian packing company, and he American Football League. And he's working construction and then he's working for the
meets this guy, George Calhoun, sports writer. And if it that guy doesn't look
like the classic sports writer, I don't know who is.
Chomping on the cigar. They have this conversation and
they decide to see if the packing company will sponsor
this team in what was then called the American Football
League. And so they do this.
And Curly marries Marguerite and spends their honeymoon driving
around setting up games with
other teams in the region. It's very romantic. And so then you get this first
team. And Curly's playing on it.
but then the root of all the He's playing on it. And they're pretty successful,
problems here between us and the Chicago Bears where, okay it was
college players to play. supposed to be you couldn't hire
it. But the Bears and the Packers were going to be having a game I'm just saying everybody did
Packers and got them kicked out of the league. and George Halas told on the
hat and hand and with a whole lot more money, and buy his way Kiback in to the league.. And Curly had to then go back,
not been good. So ever since then things have
But anyway, in their first official season, 1919, they won 10 games, including by such
scores as 87 to nothing and 76 to 6.
[LAUGHTER] And the total point spread over the season was 565 to 12.
Curly liked to pass a football and here's partly why.
against Ishpeming, Michigan, In one of the early games
he learned he had to pass if he wanted to win. The opposing team was filled
with big strong players,
game by injuries. Curly was afraid he would run Onout of players because onlyee P20 men traveled with the team.
By passing the ball, the players
From that day forward, made less physical contact, and they eventually won 53 to nothing.
Hagmeister Field there. You can still see where it is up passing team. So they're playing here at
And at this point they actually have bleachers which were built inby Curly's dad.e. But in the beginning before they
had bleachers, George Calhoun would go around with his hat and
collect money. That's what it took.
It was completely volunteer.
But then they did begin selling tickets and, again, had a very good season.
Well, so the NFL is going along and here you see Curly. He did play on those teams as well.
And here are the people who did not want to buy the tickets.
[LAUGHTER] They are sitting in the trees
watching from the cheaper seats.
And here's a very early picture of the ACME Packers. Now, you can see this is not
quite the same image as a modern
football player. For example, their helmets were made of leather and could be
folded up and put into a
player's pocket. Some players rolled up magazines
The rules weren't as strict, and used them for shin guards.
So it was a tough game. referees Tough game.ays fair, andPeople were hurt a lot.ery Looks a long way from the way
people look now.
Who do we have? So We still have the New YorkL. You can see teams came and went in those early years.
was. Giants, the Chicago Cardinals became the Bears, I believe it
No, the Staleys, is that what it was?
The Staleys became the Bears. All the other teams have I'm sorry, you're right.
The Washington Senators were vanished and been replaced by other teams.
still around when I was a kid. So anyway, they're sort of
different teams. coming and going, these
And what happened was you would guarantee money, like let's just say the team from Evansville was
going to come play in Green Bay.
You guarantee them a certain amount of money to come and play.
But for the Packers, they did this two games in a row and there was terrible rain and nobody showed up.
And so they guaranteed something
like a thousand dollars I think it was, I'd have to look to be sure, but way more than they
had.
And all the sudden the Packers were broke. And so what did they do but they
sold shares.
And there is an original share. They made money. And originally shares got you a
seat and other things.
And so the Green Bay Packers Now it gets you nothing but a piece of paper to put on your wall.
When we see these teams owned by became the only community-owned professional sports team. It's an amazing legacy.
small market town, the only one. millionaires and billionaires and moving them around from place to place, Green Bay in a
So now they are publicly owned, and I believe they had two share offerings over time.
And they began to win.
What Curly understood was that if they were going to be
people who wanted to watch them. successful, they had to bring
And so they won three national titles in a row.
Super Bowls in a row, essentially. It would be like winning three
He was on the cover of And it was a big deal and Curly became very famous.
magazines, he went out to Hollywood, and his personal life became more complicated.
And so he was a star. He was a star in the United States. And at the same time,
pro football began to grow, began to have bigger stadiums making more money.
baseball was the big thing, but it began to grow and become a bigger deal. Still not a big money thing,
of his players at the time. He's coaching now and he had And here you see him with some
Let me just find where I'm going some very famous players that were all part of that.
George Halas and Curly didn't like each other, and their I'll just read you a little bit about the Chicago Bears.
feelings affected their teams. For example, one year George
Halas sent Curly a telegram saying please take it easy on my
Each coach would spy on the other before games. On game day they wouldn't speak Curly to each other. true.
Curly said, shake hands?
If he lost, he wanted to punch That would have been a lie. If I lost I wanted to punch Halas in the nose.
in the end the rivalry certainly me. Over the years they developed some respect for each other, but
remains. So they're doing great, right,
that is because George Halas is emphasizing the pass. But then, over time, other teams they're winning, and part of
T formation and things like that. And that natural advantage is begin to adoplost. pass and the
Now here he is, he divorced Marguerite, he married a
It just sort of went on like Hollywood model, divorced her later, married somebody else.
unthinkable happened where he was no longer the coach for And afterGreen Bay.e wasn't winning anymore, and the
but then he went and coached the And he didn't know what to do,
Cardinals and he was sort of distracted. And this is what he was like
when he was losing. Not very happy. And in general, players said
feared him. He was someone not afraid to they respected him but they
blame. How could you drop the ball?
That kind of thing. You, you're the one, you didn't block, I saw that.
players. That kind of treatment of his
When he was still a coach and playing, the players were so mad at him at one point that he was
carrying the ball and they all
just stood aside and didn't block for him and the other team just sort of smothered him.
So his players, I would say,
didn't like him but they did respect him.
fear and intimidation model. It was that sort of coaching by
And for a while it worked. But in the long run, it didn't. And he sort of, I think, my
reading of it is that he sort of
lost interest. He'd been on top, it was hard to
adapting to new ways of playing. rebuild it and he wasn't really
Still, in the end, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame the first year.
He wanted to be the coach of the
Green Bay Packers. In 1959 there was an opening and
back. But instead they hired this other guy. he was kind of lobbying to come
And they didn't like each other either, interestingly enough. Vince Lombardi didn't, he thought that Curly's lifestyle
was sort of immoral.
named the field after him, And Curly Lambeau is jealous of Vince Lombardi. When Curly Lambeau died and they
Curly Lambeau Field, Lombardi was really upset.
named after himself. He thought it should have been
gentle. Curly Lambeau died, he sort of rivalry between the two of them that really never quite became
Bay, and he died, he had a alternated time between California and up around Green
girlfriend and he showed up at her house and her brother was mowing the lawn and Curly
Lambeau said, hey, let me show
you something I learned out in California. And he began to show him the
twist.
of Curly Lambeau. So what can we say about Curly? felIn the end, he sort of didn. So that was the end
He became supportive of the Packers, had a TV show where he sort of talked about the Packers mellow out.
that there was talk about moving and stuff like that, but anytime
the Packers, as there was even way back in the '40s and '50s,
been created meant it wasn't the way that the Packers had
going to happen. Packers were a Wisconsin
stay there just that way. Well, there you have Curly institution and were going to
Lambeau as well. And I'd be happy to answer any
questions you might have about
him. [APPLAUSE]
Thank you.