cc
is offered through the >> Jeanan Yasiri: This course
School of Human Ecology. University of Wisconsin
As we begin today I'd like to extend thanks to our partners in
supporting this course, the UW
the UW College of Engineering for their technical support, and
financial support that is offered through the Ewing Marion
Kauffman Foundation which is
education in entrepreneurship. committed to advancing academic
our media partners, Wisconsin AdPublic Television and theirank
University Place crew for joining us and taping today's
lecture.
our special guest today, I'm very pleased to introduce
an Emmy Award winning video and film production company based
here in Madison, Wisconsin. As we'll learn, John has a
distinguished background in video and film productions,
including co-writing the
picture "The Straight Story," a film directed by David Lynch.
"The Straight Story" premiered
October 1999 by Walt Disney at Cannes Pictures.eleased in
The screenplay was nominated for
one of the films actors, Richard an Independent Spirit Award and
Award nomination for best actor. Farnsworth, received an Academy
Madison-based company back in 1985, John was a producer
at CBS and ABC in Chicago.
ESPN. His credits include eight Emmy
Awards, a national IRIS award for best television special, and
a national Cable Ace nomination.
nominated "The Sports Writers" John produced the Cable Ace
considerable amount of other on TV, and he has done a
column for Madison work including writing a monthly
Middle," and it was published Out in 2003.the
Of course, his corporate clients
has to share since the are part of the story that he
mid-'80s. orgHis organization has done the
$50 million in production work
McDonald's, Miller, and Coors. with clients such as Coke,
speak with us about entrepreneurship because I think
that he really demonstrates the intersection of entrepreneurship
between building a business and also being an artist.
So I believe he truly emulates
class about thinking of entrepreneurs in a very broad
perspective.
John Roach. Please jo[APPLAUSE]elcoming
John Roach: That's a nice chair...!
Hey, nice meeting everyone. I'm not going to pretend to give
a real formal lecture to you. I'm just going to do my best to
share with you what I know. The first thing is I have just a
total aversion to PowerPoint. I've seen some of worst ideas
presented with some of the best PowerPoint you can imagine.
But I did put together some talking points so that you might
have them up there. I guess the first thing we would
start with, is why are we here? Always a good question to ask
when you're speaking to people. I'm here to serve you today, to
tell you a little bit about what
seats you're sitting in some 35 I'veyears ago here at the UWthe
Madison.
perhaps help you qualify me by I should qualify my remarks and
Madison, went to Madison telling you that I'm 58, went to
I'm a total townie. Not just a Sconnie, a townie.
I'm, like, genetically
I have three children who just compromised.
university as well. My oldest daughter, Kate, works
for Draft Foote Cone, a big advertising agency in Chicago.
Middle daughter, Maggie, works
son JT Roach works, actually, for the Wfor our shop.y, and my
So this is kind of your worst case scenario is someone your
father's age coming and lecturing to you.
Talking about why are we here,
start your own business in your the majoritlife.you will not
And so I'm trying to make sure
salient. that what I have to offer you is
even if you end up the rest of The one thing I can tell you is
company with massive resources your life working for a huge
stock option plan, you will work and a great pension plan and a
your career. with companies like mine through
don't end up starting your own So it's probably good, if you
mind set of people who run company, to understand the
you do your job at a bigger smaller compcompany.o will help
I've always felt also, just parenthetically, I worked for
ABC, CBS and the Marriott Corporation, my first job out of
school was with Marriott at Great America back before Bally
bought it, Six Flags. I started out working for three
real big companies and learned
to work for myself. Which is a kind of something as
a model that I had in my head as
When I was in school at the UW I started out.
'60s. Played in a couple of bands, was
kind of a high school jock, and this just went away as this crap
always does.
But I always, there was a line, that has become a cliche, but it
wasn't a cliche for me when I was 19 years old.
And it was a line offered by
line was called living the life Henof quiet desperation. the
It's become a cliche. I admit it's a cliche.
I'm embarrassed to mention it,
cliches for good viable reasons. but sometimes cliches become
DNA knowing that I did not want to be in gray flannel suit, I
did not want to be in a cubicle.
And quite honestly, if I'd been I hreal honest with myself, Is.
didn't want to work for anybody else.
I wanted to work for myself.
that stupid to think, hey, maybe I was that cocky, that vain,
what I love to do. I could build a business around
we're exploring here today. Let's start off with what is an
entrepreneur? An entrepreneur, I think, is a
person who finds a passion and
So Jeanan mentioned the arts. I have a passion for writing.
I have a passion for film.
other entrepreneurs who build businesses around their passion.
I would argue every guy in the
he's built a business and a NFbrand around his talents.use
Most Olympic athletes.
In the old days there were movie Most movie stars.
where they were just bought and spaid for and showed up to work
and they put them in whatever movie they wanted them to, back
in the '30s, '40s and '50s. And then all the sudden actors
said, no, I have a unique talent.
I want to be in the movies I
I want to read the script before want to read.
I want control of my destiny. And so I think an entrepreneur
can come in a lot of different
Some of it is creative but you ways.
computer programmer as well. could be an entrepreneur as a
entrepreneur is someone who has a passion that they think is
unique and they're comfortable
themselves. What's the personality profile
of an entrepreneur? I would say, number one, you
have to be confident. You have to be disruptive.
You have to have a little attitude.
I can tell you quite honestly when I worked at ABC and CBS my
biggest frustration was, and
is, but I thought I was smarter thisthan a lot of my bosses.d it
And when someone made me do something that I thought was
stupid or lame or cliched, it drove me nuts.
I always tell the story about some friends of mine gave me
heat for leaving ABC. They said, why'd you leave ABC?
What are you, nuts? You're working for one of the
networks. And I said, because if you're
standing still in the hallway they make you produce a
telethon. I didn't have much control over
my own work, and I wanted to own
So I was a little cocky and I had an attitude.
I was a first born and my father
of it was in the blood lines. oI think that you have to beme
unafraid for fail but fear
Fear of failure, I would argue, is my greatest motivator.
But the flip side of that is
years with the network credits that I left a job after eight
myself, frankly without a business plan, without any
capital, simply because I didn't
But I wasn't afraid of failing. If you look at Steve Jobs, Bill
Gates, all these guys, they really started out, they did,
they started out in garages.
artists, great writers, they If you look at great rock
out with but they had a drive or lived very poor lives to start
attitude that says, you know a passion and a little bit of
that's a little bit different, what, I think I got something
that might be a little bit that's a little bit disruptive
slightly different way and better or I view the world in a
In fact, if someone makes me not that's how I want to do it.
to lose my stuff. I would have said something else
but this is going to be broadcast.
I think that you have to be comfortable with insecurity.
If you want security, if you
that kind of paternalistic want a job with a big company,
care of you for the rest of your thing, a company that will take
and then you can go to another life or a company you work to
not for you because there's very big company, entrepreneurship is
Right now as I stand here I don't know what business I will
have six months from now. And yet I have a payroll of over
a million bucks.
my people that we'll do much But I'm gambling on myself and
And I do that gamble every year. better than that this year.
with a lack of security. So you have to be comfortable
biggest thing. Risk, I think this is the
for Madison Magazine talking I wrote a piece just last month
to be very challenging for about how this economy is going
argue that the second shoe is ggoing to drop, second shoe ofe
the great recession is going to drop, and it's going to touch
upon people in the public sector, the government sector,
state a municipal governments.
family members who work as And I have a lot of friends and
this sort of stuff, and one of teachers and for the DNR and all
think, is that they're risk the reasonsaverse.ork there, I
You know pretty much you'll have
get fired, great pension, great a job forhealthcare.ty hard to
You don't make as much per annum
I have a brother in law who works for the DNR and he told
me, he said, John I really
know what I'm going to make aevery year for the rest of myI
life and the only way I can get fired is to kill someone driving
drunk in my DNR car and even
fired. then I don't know if I'd get
probably should rule out So if you're risk averse, you
And if you need structure, you entrepreneurship.
entrepreneurship because frankly should probably avoid
come out of some level of chaos. I think small businesses really
comfortable with chaos. That doesn't mean you don't have
a vision, but executing the vision, especially within a
business context, does not
away. The one thing I'd say aboutt
being an entrepreneur too is it doesn't mean that you're this
crazy pirate. I've said many times that I
think being a small business
reduced to its purist form, in owner is essentially capitalism
I make and the smarter I think, that thethe more I make.the more
If you take a job with a big
brilliant but your compensation corporatis set. could be
Your right to claim intellectual
exist. property to your ideas does not
they buy that out. The company, when they hire you,
work that I generated. And I always wanted to own the
So then Jeanan bracketed this with an entrepreneur, which is
essentially a business term, and
of being a working artist. then put it within the context
a writer, director, and I guesexecutive producer.tist as
I think it's worth asking, what is an artist?
And I would argue that an artist
think it's one thing to have an is someone whidea. an idea and I
Everyone has an idea for a
a TV show or a book. movie, everyone has an idea for
own life. It'But then you have to beeir
creative. You have to create that idea in
a quantifiable fashion. You have to put it on the paper,
on the script.
So you have to create it and You have to capture it on film.
distribute it and make money on then you haveit. produce it or
I'll be real candid, all sorts
filmmakers now and it really of people call themselves
You'll know you're a filmmaker gets under my last nerve.
payments making movies. If you own a video camera and
you shot four minutes and edited
respect, you're not a filmmaker. into nine scenes, with all
someone who can make a living A filmmamaking films.argue, is
I think a writer is someone who is paid to write.
Now you can write vocationally
thing to like to do something, or recreationally but it's one
at it. it's another to make your living
of is I'm a member of the One of thWriters Guild.ost proud
I get all these movies during Academy time before they're
released on DVD and everything. And my kids come home and we
have like our own private film
Like I have Social Network fest.
It makes me feel special. Anyhow, so that's the bit.
And there's a lot of discipline and hard work.
As you remember when Peter
lot of method to the creative Schneider wmadness. there's a
And what I tried to do was, and I'll get to this a little later,
but I tried to exploit ABC and
exploited me for cheap labor. CBS for expeOkay?e while they
And that's what you guys are
That's the state of your careers going to be.
You're cheap labor. And you have to make sure that
you're exploiting your employer,
in a non-pejorative way, you and when I say exploit I mean it
they're exploiting you. haYou have to exploit them fors
knowledge and experience and
So after I left ABC, my option reputation.
I was about 32 maybe, 33. wAnd I chose to come home toA.
Madison for very personal reasons.
My wife, I had just been married
father was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years, my wife's
that her six-year-old nephew was and was dying and in the middle
And she and I are both from big Catholic families, and we are
family people and we were going through a certain kind of like
triage. We were coming back to Madison
many weekends just to take care of the wounded members of our
families. And the connection I had to our
families and then the notion of moving to New York or LA and
writing for a sitcom or something wasn't sitting well
with me.
Chicago, I had a year, 1984, we were surrounded by death in ourn
family and I thought how many of
their way to Madison to throw my my buddies in Chicago would make
And I thought maybe five or six. bones into the ground?
for me, what did I care about? And so it really put into focus
about family. And that's why we moved back to
Madison in '84. And I might add, it's been a
great creative platform because if you're secure and your
family's secure and your wife's not screaming at you, it's
amazing how productive you can
So let's talk about different kinds of art.
There's commercial art and
Commercial art, I would argue, there's starving art.
designers, doing corporate is advertising agencies, graphic
It's an artistic pursuit, but I lwould argue it's not purelyf.
artistic, it's commercial art.
work for big agencies but at the And I know a lot of artists who
sell Cap'n Crunch. end of the day they have to help
the linen sale at Kmart, which They have to help people go to
story to tell. is really not a very creative
the creative arts and they use And what they do is they work in
then they pursue the finer that to keep their chops, and
passion off the clock. artistic elements of their
he's got a cabin up in northern OWisconsin, and tongue in cheek
we go ice fishing every year. And these are guys who invented
the Corona beer campaign, the beach campaign, one of the other
guys wrote a screenplay of a
starred in this year. fiAnd they've all worked inst
advertising agencies and then used that work to subsidize the
finer art passions that they
Screen writing, photography, have.
But there's commercial art and whatever it might be.
The starving artists in LA are starving art.
They're all waiting on tables so waiters.
get a job as a production that they cassistant.uditions or
So what I've done is I've had this small company where I
really have a lot of control and
Freedom is huge in terms of being an entrepreneur.
There is great freedom in having
And if you're in the creative arts, freedom is almost a
necessity.
unencumbered. You have to feel like you're
being paid to be your best self.
through the years that has by and large occurred with our
little shop.
business school and I said, and I wish this on all of you, I
have never looked at the clock
business. inThe day goes by really fast.wn
I never know when it's lunch
I rarely know that it's time to go home or stop at the saloon
for a beer. And pretty much what I do is who
I am. And I really love it now because
with technology you can work in your pajamas at home at 6:00 AM
and all this other stuff. And I always felt that way about
it. I was always churning on stuff.
So there's just tremendous
In fact, this should be on the freedom.
how I suck at PowerPoint, I would put a big thing that just
says freedom. And I think freedom has value.
I was offered a job in LA to
which means I would have had to pick up and move to LA and move
my family there.
money. And they would offer me a lot of
wouldn't have had the freedom I didthat I have back here.use I
And then small company, big company, our group has about 10
people, editors, writers, directors, all creatives.
Managing creatives is a very
And what we do, though, is that we are kind of like a SWAT team
or a special forces team. When a major brand has a
creative project, they call us
And usually not through their agency.
It's usually with the CEO,
They say, look, we've got this senior VP of marketing.
communicate it to all our people, all our vendors, all our
distribution channels, whatever it might be.
And we get that.
national company, we shoot all I always view, and we're a
We've shot in China, the North over the world.
throughout South America. PoleOur creative director is all
bilingual, speaks English and Chinese.
Our pieces are regularly
different languages distributed traall over the world., 15
And so the metaphor that I use
and the remora. Does anyone know what a remora
is? Anyone?
Really? Man.
It's the little fish that swims along with the shark and cleans
it up all the time. Have you ever seen sharks that
have just got the little fish around it?
So we're kind of like the remora.
We're small, we're quick, and we
So how do you know you can run get stuff done.
Well, number one, you probably and start a business?
The mortality rate for new can't.
There are varying statistics. bI've heard only two out of 10.
survive for two years.
another five years. AndMeaning about 5% or less. for
Now, according to the small business bureau, which I think
kind of has an agenda in terms
United States workforce is of making it over, over half the
A majority of the innovations and patents that come out in the
United States come from small businesses, then they get bought
by big businesses or they become
Here are some survival rates. There were 627,000 new
businesses started in 2008. There were 595,000 closures.
So that's a difference of 30,000
And there were almost 50,000 businesses.
Seven out of 10 survived the bankruptcies.
survive through five years, and I think that's optimistic.
So how do you make it successful?
Number one, you have to have the
you shouldn't have your own right persobusiness.pe otherwise
You really, and this just sounds
having other people tell you so bad, you have to dislike
You have to have a vision for yourself or for your talent or
your skill or your passion and
do this and if I sit in this go, you know what, I just got to
to lose my mind. cubicle any longer, I am going
You have to not care about You have to be independent.
I find this to be very money.
If you look at a lot of early inventors and stuff, they really
don't care much about money at
It's kind of like they're fixated on this idea or this
passion and that's what they
And the money follows that, but the passion comes first.
And I think that's really true. When I started my business I had
no business plan, had no line of
its own growth, and I was actually incredibly stupid and
naive about the business of my
And that's been my learning pcurve..
Writing a script, directing a piece, working with talent, that
comes quite naturally to me.
is how to do an organizational What didn't come naturally to me
to fire people, which is brutal. chart, how to hire people, how
How to set up rates. How to set up compensation.
margins should be. How to figure out what our
things I didn't think I'd have So I had to teach myself all the
passion. to learn in order to pursue my
little bit later. ABut the first thing is when Ia
went independent, I went
a really good annual income with independent and walked away from
income. I just knew I couldn't do what I
was doing any longer, and I knew
it, this would be the time. thatAnd what was that time? try
I was just recently married, our
was actually a little late. fiFirst child had been born.t
But interestingly enough, as a
sexist, everyone has different guy, and I don't think this is
when our first child was born I genetibecome a much betterlexes,
businessman.
provider reflex in me and, for It triggered this kind of
to other guys, I just said for whatever reason, I've told this
tougher, smarter businessman, wmuch tougher and smarter abouth
myself, what I was good at, what
But you can't care about money I wasn't good at.
any money there. at first because there won't be
investors and honestly then it's Unless you get a bunch of
too. not your company, it's theirs
start my own business is I And this is what drove me to
Success is living the life you wanted to live my own life.
someone impose a lifestyle on want to live ryou.r than having
And it's amazing how hard you will work if you're living the
life you want to live.
to live. If you're living where you want
stuff you want to do every day If you're doing the kind of
If you're working with the at work.
work is fun and you're totally people you want to work with and
you're so consumed by your work and you're living the life you
want to live, that's great. And especially in the artistic
stuff, as I tell my people all
what we do is who we are. There are a lot of people who
work for big accounting firms and then go home at night and
play guitar in the coffee house or do stand-up comedy.
I would argue there might be
there. some quiet desperation at work
offices which I really like. But we are who we are in our
If you don't promote yourself, Self-promotion.
And how to promote yourself and not be an ass.
I think it's a very subtle thing
business you have to bring in about once customers. to start a
You have to bring in work.
charge for your work. You have to make an argument for
value for you work. You have to get repeat business.
And you have to figure out how
jerk while you're doing it. tSo I've always been, I'm not aa
bad self-promoter, but I'm also not bad at helping people see
shared vision.
and having other people excited Getting by it as well.an idea
But I'm a big believer in casual
Instead of walking in and going blah-dada-dada-dada-dada, I'd
rather be at a party and say, oh, geez we just worked with
LL Cool J last week.
I know he's old. You worked with LL Cool J?
And then, oh yeah, I was out in LA shooting.
Who are you shooting for? Oh, Coca-Cola, LL Cool J is
doing a spot with them. Really?
Oh, yeah, it was the same director we worked with on the
Tom Hanks project.
You worked with Tom Hanks? Tom Hanks?
I was working with and the Yeah, he did this Fox kids show
spot. So you kind of casually drop
this stuff around.
traveling is big. So you say, I just got by back
from Innsbrook. What were you doing in
Innsbrook?
ski team for Miller. We were shooting the US Olympic
Yeah, yeah, we do. Really, you do work for Miller?
Oh, it's not that big a deal. I just flew to Innsbrook and
went skiing with the US Olympic ski team and almost fell down a
glacier.
A crevice. [LAUGHTER]
owner, the prime mover of the business, you are, they call it
the rain maker. You have to make it rain.
You have to make the jobs come
[LAUGHTER] in.
Not like Rain Man. What?
[LAUGHTER] What?
[LAUGHTER] Oh, you have to make it rain.
So casual name dropping is a And make it rain money.
I also think it's cool, I love great way to promote yourself.
all this sort of stuff because I social media and Facebook and
or little casual mentions of love to throw up little pieces
now. projects we're working on right
client, this is a really good point, I can't believe I didn't
put it down, I love it when the client comes to us as opposed to
us tugging on the client's
It's always best when we heard sleeve for business.
And our work has always been our about you from someone.
Business of show business. best promotion.
this is kind of crafting this Thientrepreneur with arts. now
They call it show business. There's show and there's
business. Let's just take a half step
back. I've always thought, and there
may be classes at the U about this now, but for like the kids
who are in drama, I hope they have a class about how to hire
an agent. Okay?
How to review a rights document or a release form for what you
should release for the use of your image and likeness.
I hope they offer a course in if you're cast in a role in the
movie, what is your residual
How do you become a member of the Screen Actors Guild?
What the benefits of the Screen Actors Guild.
When does the healthcare kick in.
Does it cover getting your eyes done.
And all the business parts of being an artist and selling your
work. So these are just some of the
things I had no idea about. I just knew I wanted to shoot
film and tell stories, do TV
I had no idea what a line of shows, write screenplays.
I was clueless. I ran my business for 10 years
and then the bank said don't you
credit? thiI said, sure, what's that?of
Now that's embarrassing for me
Really embarrassing. to admit.
You're right, it is Yembarrassing?.
[LAUGHTER]
I had no idea how to hire You're speople.than me.
We had a little success early so
would just say I've got a great I thouread on people.n and I
Wrong.
then took too long to fire I made so many bad hires and
Compensation. I kind of knew how to get a
comparative, when we brought in a writer or a director or
something like that, I kind of
per annum, I didn't know how to have the compensation discussion
and how to frame here's what we can pay you.
Well, geez, nah, nah, nah.
you a hundred grand, given the And I said, well look, if we pay
employee, you have so have expense of having you as an
Now if you think you can do $that, then I'll pay you a.
hundred grand.
year if you don't do that. But you'll lose your job in a
for a hundred thousand dollars, Beyou have 15% of that is foree
FICA, social security, you've got another 15% for healthcare
and dental. Then you've got the rent for
their office, their computers,
their cell phone, their Apple tiPhone, their iPad and all the
sudden I finally had an accountant who said here's what
it really costs you to have an
And here's the return you should employee.
You should hope to have a three to one or four to one return on
every employee you have.
asks me for more money, I always So when someone comes in and
going to both make more money say to thetogether? how are we
I want you to have more money,
for both of us. bMargins, how to operate yourl
business on margins, how to price the value of your work.
Huge lesson.
of the people ask you. What do you charge a day, some
minute. You really have to sit down and
do some math and quantify what
the marketplace. your creative talents go for on
percentages. And then you have agents and
screenplays. I have an agent in LA for
say is someone has done this And then the last thing I would
really stupid in that I did not beforeseek out the models.I was
I just made stuff up as I went
So if I would give any of you counsel, if you do end up.
starting your own business or going into some sort business
that lets you leverage your creative arts, right away reach
out to someone and find the business model because if you
have a stable business model, your art will be so much better
because you shouldn't starve. If you're starving as an artist,
maybe your art isn't that good. You know?
Is any of this making sense?
you all wish you were elsewhere? Am I engaging you at all or do
something. Nod your head, move, do
Thank you. Okay, back there, you're okay?
Signs of life. Appreciate that.
I've learned, I'm really talking Okay, people, one of the things
here in creative. abCreatives are notoriouslyess
difficult to manage because they're never happy.
They have the highest incidence of depression and they never
feel that they're being compensated enough.
But no one's ever happy with
happy with what they do. what they make, but many can be
they think they should if there having fun and feel appreciated.
That's a huge element and it
that out. toWhat we do is who we are asure
opposed accountant by day,
covered that. stExpectations and delivery.I
One of the things that I learned
again I'm talking to you guys like you're running your own
business, that's what I'm talking to you about, you have
to have really honest discussions with your employees
to find out what your expectations are and what their
expectations are. And you have to have that
discussion. You have to screen these
employees.
look at their experience, and YI've always felt you have tod
make sure they worked in a big
That's critical. market for show business.
of Madison, you probably don't If you've never worked outside
what you need to know to work know wwith us at least.o, know
But I never knew how to have
Nothing could be more boring these, it's an HR function.
That's what I thought. than human resources.
appreciate people who know how And yet, I have come to
employees. to have these discussions with
own business, reach out to And, again, if you start your
this. pYou'll be amazed how manyor
consultants are out there.
they'll save you a hundred For a thousand bucks a day,
Technology, anyone watch Modern Family?
Okay, I'm known as Phil Dunphy
Can't wait for the new iPad. around the house.
lead technology team for the new In fact, my nephew is on the
It's going to have a profound effect on the way we do
business. I already do conference calls
every morning with my younger brother, who now runs the
business day-to-day, on FaceTime.
It's a tremendous business tool.
instead of a smaller screen. Now imagine that with an iPad
from Madison. This is just pathetic but when I
started my business in Madison
weren't used. iThere was no such thingy
as Fed Ex.
deregulated so getting a direct flight to New York was difficult
or impossible from Madison. There were no cell phones.
I typed my scripts on a typewriter, an IBM Selectric.
And technology allowed me to be globally competitive from
Madison, Wisconsin. We're regularly bidding against
groups from Los Angeles or
Minneapolis or Detroit because London or New York or
you are, it matters how good you it really doesn't matter where
And so technology, the are.
historically have been the best investments I've made in my
business. Mark always says control the
means of production.
a subcontractor business, you Isubcontract your lighting guy,
your sound guy, your gaffers, your grips, livery, food, all
that sort of stuff. But the more of those services
you internalize, the better your
And what has happened for our little company is that
technology has conspired to make
gear than rent it. it more profitable for us to buy
Apple Final Cut HD edit suites. So We have a mixing studio.wn
We have three HD cameras, we
one. just took delivery of another
Well, it allows us to make money What does that do?
But more importantly it allows on our own gear.
plus a piece of business so I'm not running into overtime on
edits and these sorts of things.
the tools of your art, the The more control you have over
And I probably don't get out of my pajamas until 10:00 in the
morning every day.
drinking coffee. I start at 6:00 in the morning
the day, this is creative ideas, I do most of my writing early in
before the affairs of the day scripts,cloud my mind.ight be,
Coffee is a great drug for
know. And so I'd literally, I used to
have to get up in the morning at
in the morning and all this sort 6:00 and be there to do a show
productive time of my day, and I of stuff, but it's the most
think is just tremendous. And I'm literally calling all
over the place. I think more and more you guys
are going to be working remotely.
My daughter works for Wrigley.
Just doesn't even have to come She works at home on Fridays.
It's also quicker. in the office.
on the Edens expressway for I worked ieight years.d commuted
I wasted three hours a day in my
And this was pre-cell phones. You couldn't have any productive
time in your car. Total utter waste of time.
It's much easier, I obviously I'm telling you guys stuff you
already know, to research.
creative, it's also easier to engage in what I call benevolent
theft.
always go online and look at When we go into idea sessions, I
have been done. What is the language of the day.
They say there are no new ideas, there's just benevolent
theft.
off. You don't want to rip anything
that. But most of everything has been
kind of done. And so what I like to do when we
have our creative sessions is I like to prime the pump with
pieces from YouTube that I've gone out and grabbed to say,
okay, what can we do that will
And the technology allows you to be cooler, better than this?
And then if you have invested in do that so wonderfully.
experience that you're one step ahead of your competitors.
I have a client who completely
Apple iPhone 4 and was able to dug the fact that I had the
before his meetings started. FaceTime with him in the morning
and your company. IYou have to be wise about aou
technology investment.
get a return on that investment because if you sink money in bad
technology, not only is it
for you as a businessman with costly, it'sclients.bad metaphor
But I've seen a lot of clients
technology they should invest now call me in. what kind of
And big companies usually don't invest in cutting-edge
technology because it's too hard.
Okay, so I want to talk about humanity because I don't really
view myself as a, although I've been a businessman, I don't view
myself as, I don't refer to myself as a businessman.
I'm more of a dad and a father
all that sort of stuff. And I have a lot of friends that
I worked with collaboratively in
I really do think that business busiis relationships.ends.
My daughter Margaret, Maggie, went to work for Wrigley, and
she's in charge of sales
different sales people all analytics for all these
who call every day and complain aroabout their commissions.ple
And she's had the job for a year
on a business trip two weeks ago and a half and she finally went
presentation to everyone and all to Charlotte and gave a
with remotely for a year and a these people she'd been working
it great finally meeting you. haAnd she felt the same way.is
So in the midst of all this technology, I think the humanity
actually becomes more important.
dinner and beers with a client There's nothing like having
I know how my clients view me. to get a read on them.
fresh, call Roach. They say we need something
me, it means everyone in my And now Roachgroup.'t mean just
We need someone ho won't let us down, call Roach.
Because the humanity of this
is that if these things get escrewed up, our clients getff
fired.
houses and all this sorts of And they have kids and they have
hyperventilate before big shows when we're controlling how their
career is perceived and it comes
freakin' hero to them. off swimmingly and you're just a
grew. We became a hero to someone at
Miller who got hired at Coca-Cola, all the sudden we're
doing big projects for
Another person went over to SC Coca-Cola.
exponentially because A, we had fresh creative ideas and B, we
were dogged.
fail. And in so doing, we would not
let our client's reputation be
So I don't know if that makes any sense to you.
Okay, things I find myself
I ask my employees to solve problems, don't create them.
No one likes working with a whiner.
Raise your hand for help. I think if you're an employer,
if you're in my position, you have to keep your eyes on your
people to see who's struggling. Because in the creative arts, in
what we do, deadlines, a lot of pressure, it's not a 9:00 to
5:00 job. It can be 12 days in a row,
12 hours a day, and you have to really be sensitive to your
employees who are struggling. And what they do is they don't
tell you they're struggling.
for the team or struggle They're going to try to take one
project. through, but they endanger the
raise your hand for help. So I alwayI need help.e, please,
It's three words that are really
Throw good people at problems. important to be able to say.
small business has an Smaexpand/contract model.ery
There's seasonal things, there's
always have a deep bench of freelancers that we can throw at
problems. This is, raise your hand for
help, in terms of a manager, is immediately followed by throw
good people at the problem that this person needs help with.
Hire good people and get out of their way.
Phil Knight is the president of Nike.
He has one of my favorite quotes, and it's profane so I'll
clean it up.
the right people and the other He said 90% of my job is finding
their way. 10% is getting the bleep out of
the right people to fit with I really do believe that finding
For all this talk about technology and everything, human
assets are actually more
been, I would argue. valuable now than they ever have
asset in the American culture since we've moved out of mass
production economy into an
Do it all with an easy grace. I don't think you should let
them see you sweat. I think that you should not
panic.
the rest of your team members when everyone knows there is a
lot of pressure and a light fell
or whatever it might be, to handle it all with an easy grace
as if you've been there before
from panicking. because that Okay? everyone else
Now I'm going to contradict myself.
Same thing as create drama-free zones because drama isn't very
productive. And if you have drama people
stop being candid with each other.
And in the creative arts you
other. have to be candid and trust each
is? Does anyoYeah, anybody?l Brooks
Move, somebody move.
Mel Brooks? RaAnyone know?d.
So I worked with Mel Brooks when
for one of his movies, History I was young and he was touring
thrilled to meet him. ofI met a lot of celebrities,was
worked with them, and I usually take it in stride but I was
really thrilled to meet him.
Producers was just the most dangerous damn thing I'd ever
seen. So the security calls,
Mr. Brooks is on his way to seven, which is where our
studios were. I go there and meet him at the
elevator. We're in the exact same outfits,
khaki pants, blue shirt and a blue blaser.
He goes, son! Take him into makeup and he
goes, what did you think of the movie?
And I said, it was really great,
work. MrHe said, no, what didn't youur
like about it?
He goes, yeah, I know what's I said, really?
young; I need to know what isn't working, especially if you're
And I said, well, it wasn't as working.
And he goes, I'm never going to gmake a movie as good.
as The Producers again. And it taught me a great lesson.
He had no emotional investment
project. in what was wrong with his
He wanted notes. None.
with it. He wanted to hear what was wrong
because I worked with a lot of And that was a revelation to me
slightest off-handed comment people who if you even made the
would just lose their stuff about somcompletely.g off they
He was at the top of his game at
lowly producer in Chicago, to thtell him where he missed., a
And he was totally, totally,
And it was a great lesson to utterly cool about it.
Righteous anger. learn.
stuff about drama-free zone and easy grace I think there's times
where you have to rear up on
going to treat my people like your hind legthat. say nobody's
I'm going to have you removed from the set if you pull that
crap again. Is that understood?
Thank you.
Because people will beat you up, [LAUGHTER]
beat you up. and you can't let them
the thing I'm most proud of is Of some of the work I've done,
they treated my people poorly. accounts I've resigned because
shooting Muhammad Ali at Atlanta One of my people, we were
got heat stroke and the client Olympics, and one of my people
inappropriate remark about one came in and made some really
employees was a slacker, when in of my, kind of saying one of my
really in danger. Heat stroke is nothing to mess
around with.
shoot that we would no longer And work with this person.that
You've have to have righteous anger.
And I also think that if you're running the shop, it's really
critical, you want easy grace but you have to let people know
that you have passion and you care.
And so I don't think you ever go
someone, but if something is out of your way to humiliate
a slackish way you have to say, beinhey, what are we doing?or in
This must be done well and it must be done well by 5:00
because that's when, boom,
can't go into overtime. you're Please focus.ause we
Thank you.
beat people up all the time because one out of every three
shoot days you're going to have to ask the crew to skip lunch.
Okay? People get really, I never care
about lunch, but people really
So you always have to buy them a want their lunch.
But you can only go to that well big free meal afterwards.
if you treat them well. I don't know if this makes sense
to you. There is no big time.
I don't think there's any big time.
I've worked with presidents,
stuff. movie stars, all that sort of
act really casual and I straightforward with them.o
Don't bug them about autographs.
my life. Don't say, I've admired you all
President Reagan, President JuBush, this is what we'll bet,
doing, and Michael Jordan it
Mike. I worked with Michael Jordan a
lot.
If you told him, hey Mike. Mike was great to work with.
Yeah, yeah. I said 15 minutes you're going
to stand over here. We've got all the copy for you.
All you have to do is walk into your mark.
We'll mic you up. You'll be out in 15 minutes.
He goes, I'm timing you.
did I let you down? I saHe goes, no you haven't.re,
And that's all you do.
sign this for my nephew, all You don't say, hey Mike, can you
business time. this sort of stuff because it's
million dollars an hour. And they're paying him about a
achievement. Do not confuse activity with
my young employees is just This is one thing I always tell
doesn't mean you're getting because anything done.g around
I think that that mantra helps
saying what is my intention you re-priortoday?all the time
What has to be in the can?
Am I serving, am I moving the ball up the hill or am I just
running around madly? Message discipline.
I think this is important for everything that you work on
because the world is full of
There's just all sorts of messages flying around.
So it puts a premium on you knowing what you do, you knowing
what you want, you knowing the
you're working. What is the end result required?
So message discipline all the way down the line because it is
so, we live in a world of total utter constant distraction.
So the person who actually knows
they're doing is ahead of 99% of where they're going and what
Critical path, that's the same the people.
You just have to, when you're in thing.
running your business or the midst of production or
And this is stuff that you whatever it might be.
but it's like what are we ordinasupposed to do here?rtists
One of the things I have found
are really buttoned down and with really good artists, they
They don't waste any time. disciplined.
it sounds, how it looks, and They care about their work, how
Get down off your cross, we need everything else is secondary.
I hate martyrs. That's a Tom Waits line.
I use that all the time when
Get down off your cross, we need someone is whining too much.
That's all. The only two other things I'd
share with you is I traveled for
work. 30 It was really difficult.ess
Travel is not fun.
you're in a nice four star hotel It's fun when you're young and
service and you're going oh, and you get to order room
But if you do it for 30 years, this is great.
So if you're working with people it's not really fun.
lot, give them some love. and you'rAnd what else?travel a
Just the work-life balance. Of all the stuff that I've done,
I mean the Cannes Film Festival,
any of you who know David Lynch, writing a David Lynch film, for
being surrounded by paparazzi, he's a pretty cool director,
but honestly at the end of the all that stuff was really cool,
reasonably good husband and day I'm father.at I'm a
And if I wasn't, I think that other stuff would not, life's
pretty unbearable when you don't
together. haveThat's just me.side
Other people can swing it just
That's all I have to say. fiI hope this is helpful.se.
I don't know if it was. I'd love to hear some questions,
and then I'll be able to tell if
[APPLAUSE] you heard anything I said.
before. He was here when Peter Schneider
came last semester, who, of course, is an old friend of
yours.
friend, that was the beauty of >> He actually wasn't an old
Peter Schneider was the guy from it.
and Lion King, gave you your Disney who gave you guys Ariel
And he gave the green light to a childhood.
ended up being this thing. screenplay that I wrote that
It was a very small film but a And you guys haven't seen it.
It's in the Internet Movie cool film.
of stuff. But it was about an old man who
drove his tractor across Iowa to
Very simple film. Totally weird film for David
Lynch to make who did Twin Peaks
Drive, and this was a totally anagainst type film for him.nd
But they flew us to France and
at the photographers and every we walked up the aisle and waved
said, who the hell is that? timeGet out of my shot. they
[LAUGHTER]
And you guys know just raise Okay, questions.
hand the mic over. your hand, and I'll be happy to
go up. I'm looking for those hands to
Hi, my name is Rhea Harvey. I've g>> Hi, Rhea. here.
And my question for you is
advertisement for a company or a would you or have you done an
ethical qualm with? pro>> I have turned down twod an
projects because of that. We did work for the Miller
Brewing Company which was owned by the Philip Morris Company,
and we did not take any work
Morris. from theI do like beer., Philip
I have a real problem with
Lost my father-in-law to lung cancer, and so we went out of
our way not to take any work
And I also don't, we've done from them.
don't take work from far political work as well, but we
anti gay, it's just not who we right-wing republicans who are
I don't mind moderate republicans.
I think there's a good argument to be made on the moderate side
of both arguments, but when the talk becomes hateful we don't
care to be part of it.
And, by the way, when we have ethically sketchy projects come
in, I meet with the staff to
comfortable with it. make sure everyone is
certain members of my staff have And there have been times where
even though the rest of the recustaff wanted to do it.job
I'll give you an example. Someone who is a registered
republican doesn't want,
want to help a democrat become registered republican doesn't
So they just don't work on the governor.
I thought I lost you and you project and we respect that.
nodding off. have a question because you were
Sorry, I had surgery [LAUGHTER]
What did you get cut on? this week.
What got cut on? >> What?
Oh, sorry. >> My foot.
[LAUGHTER] Okay.
and I was wondering have you had >> My name is Eliah Rinzel,
you took that you wish you any decisions, maybe some jobs
decisions you've made wothat you didn't like.ig
That's a great question.
that I've had have been the most Some of the most difficult jobs
And over time, I'll give you an example, anyone here from
Chicago?
Remember Steve Dahl? Anybody?
He was a radio guy they blew up Does anyComiskey Park.at name?
My first special was a really edgy special with him.
Won my first Emmy for it. It was a brutal project.
Difficult talent, difficult, we were shooting in Memphis.
It was a send up of Elvis Presley.
And yet, the creative idea was
But it took years off my life. really, really good.
Yes I would. Would I do it again?
really hard work. WritiWould I do it again?y was
Yes I would.
a job is really difficult, ask I think what I have found is if
down. Meaning it's not worth having an
lot of personal friction with a client who's got a $10,000 who
doesn't know what they're doing and they're a jerk because at
the end of the day every job
can't afford to do it poorly. Even if the client doesn't know,
you know. So the lesson for me is unless
someone really treats you or
terms of respect, then sometimes your people, crosses the line in
down and make it a mercenary you just have to put your head
But the only regrets I have is act.
really hard for clients who didn't appreciate it and didn't
pay for it. That answer your question?
Thanks. Yes, Alyssa.
Actually we've got the mic
Alyssa. right >> Okay, I'm sorry. get to
I'm Jewel.
nominations-- Of a>> Jewelryana.and
Yes.
Of all the awards and nominations you've received, is
there anything that means, maybe
might be really prestigious but to you it doesn't mean as much?
Is there an award that you've received that means more for any
reason? >> Right.
I have to say I honestly don't
But I will say that nominated for an Independent Spirit Award
was really cool.
that is, that's like the cool Ipre-Academy Awards party thatat
happens the day before the
young new independent films. Academy Awards, and it's all the
where, what was that movie about It's where Pulp Fiction won and
forest and they made the whole the guys who got caught in the
Blair Witch. social myth about it?
films. You know, it's the smaller indie
first screenplay, and we were with some really cool company.
In fact, the guy who did
stuff. Election and all that sort of
then having the film premier at So Cannes Film Festival. and
That was serious boogie because that was part of film lore.
And then to have Richard
who had the lead in our film, get an Academy Award nomination
for best actor which is one of
That does mean something to me, but here's what means more: the
morning that the Academy Award
Disney did a campaign for us as nomiscreenwriters as well.ut,
So we were up for best
screenplay. In fact, on my wall at home I
have the print ads that Disney
for your consideration John raRoach, Mary Sweeney, besting
original screenplay of The
But I didn't want to sit at home Straight Story.
They announced it on Good Morning America or whatever the
hell it is. So I went cross country skiing
in the arboretum. We had gotten six inches of
snow. It was just beautiful and I was
hoping someone from our production would get a
nomination, either David for
best supporting actress, or beRichard Farnsworth for bestor
actor, or possibly Angelo Badalamenti for the soundtrack
which is beautiful or maybe, a
But I really didn't have a long shot, us for screenplay.
And I got in my car and I had voicemail in my car and there
were 38 voicemails. And the first one I punched, and
by the way there was a Cannes Film Festival premier and then a
Hollywood premier.
us, he came for the premier, and Marilyn Manson sat right behind
is sitting right behind us and my daughter goes Marilyn Manson
the United States. over there is the president of
Independence Day had just been Which was Bill Pullman.
Our kids were like eight. [LAUGHTER]
And so they did the whole walk
And my daughter Maggie, who ended up getting a double major
in English and comm arts here,
screaming. all I got on the voicemail was
Farnsworth. AShe had met everyone.d
She was very excited and she
Richard got a nomination, dad. goes, Richard got a nomination,
the background and that was the And you couvoicemail.reaming in
So that's what I cherish the
It's the intersect between that formal recognition and the
feel good human side. Is that fair answer?
Hi. You clearly have a natural
talent for writing and film and you kept mentioning that you had
to teach yourself or look elsewhere for business advice.
You bet, I'm still learning.
with? >> What de>> History.u graduate
[LAUGHTER]
what you're going to do. For all of you who don't know
declare a major. You're in school and you have to
I took the path of least I became a history major.
I tried a couple drama courses; I didn't fit in.
I tried some comm arts; I didn't
And I loved reading history. like the classes.
just have a vivid imagination Itand history always, I lovedd I
reading history and also there's
So I pretty much am your typical a lot of writing with history.
from the University of confused humanities graduate
And I might add, you guys are lucky, Madison is a culturally
very cool place compared to some
cultural mix of Madison, not the other schools in that it's the
sometimes, that give it its formal educedge. and courses
From my generation, Hollywood is
and there was no film school at filthy with the UW.in graduates
There he this were all history
All sorts of this kind of polyglot humanities sort of
thing.
the movie business in Hollywood. And there are tons of people in
Yes, sir. How are you doing this evening?
Good. >> My name is Aaron Henry.
Aaron, how you doing? >> I'm doing well.
My question was regarding, I
people and who did you have the opportunity of enjoying that
group of people or that person
Who did you enjoy the most? >> Yeah, well David Lynch
because I learned a lot from
There are some people who've him.
who I stayed in touch with. IDoes anybody know the TV showy
Cheers? Okay.
You know George?
George Wendt? The fat guy who drinks beer?
He became a friend of mine. He was in Second City.
He's a good friend. Chris Farley was a good friend.
I consider Dave Lynch a friend. And then there are a lot of
other people that I worked with who, if I mention what we worked
on it would be a really good
It's like teammates or camps connect.
with someone and then you yoreconnect and it's a joyousect
memory, it's a beautiful thing. There's a lot of show business
that's kind of like summer camp because you come together for a
magical six weeks and then
have are the memories. everyone goes away and all you
these people you remind them, But hey, we worked togetherwith
on The Straight Story.
Yes. Oh, my God, how are you?
Then I would say the other thing Boom.
office. iDirectors, writers that I've
worked with who are just good friends.
Then also, it's kind of fortuitous, I'm going up to the
cabin this week.
fishing. Tongue in cheek, we go ice
All these guys wear Armani suits It's a joke.
They have no idea how to ice and crap like that.
We hire an ice fishing guide. [LAUGHTER]
That's how hopeless we are. But these guys that I've
mentioned, they've written
commercial campaigns, one of movies, big television
stations. And I get together with them to
compare notes because that's the
don't always have someone to one thing I would say is you
by my business, by myself, by my talk to about am I doing right
Am I losing my edge? people?
with these guys every year. AAnd we bounce ideas and stuff.t
I'll give you an example. If I was a professional athlete
it'd be like going away with
and endorsements and trainers soand all that sort of stuff.nts
It's the same thing.
with who's in the same business Ityou're in, which by the wayown
there really aren't many people in Madison who are in the same
business I am in. I can't go down to the village
Bar or Wando's and say, hey,
lighting guys now and stuff like what are you charging for
So those are the relationships that.
If there's any famous people, I don't know, I'm sure there's
some famous people who are
them as famous anymore so I fcan't bring up their name.f
I just don't, fame's a weird
I wouldn't wish fame on anyone. >> Okay, so you talked about how
relationships are really
you separate friendship from important, I was wondering how
in a situation where business buhad a trump over friendship?en
God, you guys are asking
There's a line in Hollywood that great questions.
friends, no permanent enemies. says, Hollywood: no permanent
friends. I try not to do business with
roommate out of college who is I have a buddy of my who is my
He made millions of dollars with retired at 40.
And he called me up after The Straight Story and said,
hey, maybe I can get some investors for your movie.
And I said, cool, Bob.
retired plus you weren't that I still cansmart.ieve you're
[LAUGHTER]
He's great on rock and roll Atrivia though.
And he said, well, I wouldn't invest because I never invest in
anything where I can't sue the
And he said, I would never want to sue you; you were the best
man in my wedding.
thing. I think it's a very difficult
business. MMy younger brother, 15 yearsy
younger than me.
he was "oops." It's an Irish Catholic family,
And you really have to do a lot of work if you're going
to work with friends. You need more work and more
paper to work with friends than strangers or enemies, I think.
That's a brilliant question.
good. I'll take a crappy question.
Anyone have a crappy question?
here? >> Do >> Hi, I'm Lauren.estion
Hi, Lauren. >> And I was just wondering,
what would you say is the hardest part about your job?
Pressure. Tension.
The fear of failure and travel
[LAUGHTER] and firing people.
Just hate it. I get clinically depressed for a
month after firing people.
people but that was always There are people who like firing
If I could just finish, Jeanan. I'm really grateful for you guys
to let me speak to you today. I'm enough of a Irish Catholic
boy to feel that I can never
like there's some good karma enjoy any success unless I feel
And what I hope is today, I probably bored the living crap
out of a huge percentage of you,
of you may find yourself in a but position where you might two
possibly remember one little
that will help you at a hard morsel that I threw out today
I couldn't be happier for you time oguys.r life.
You guys are in a really cool place in time.
This economy sucks but it's rebounding.
And you guys are coming out and you're smart and you're cheap
labor and you're from a great school with a great reputation.
So I wish you guys nothing but
If anyone has any follow-up questions or anything and you
want my email or anything, I'm
get it from Jeanan, but I wish happy to help out, and you can
And thanks for letting me talk you all just the best of luck.
[APPLAUSE]