cc
this morning's session. It's a pleasure to be with you
all in this magnificent new building, including this one
among many sanctuaries. It's a pleasure to be here in
every sense.
speaker, Dr. James Minor, who, I will begin by introducing our
being presented with the Alumni as Achievement Award from theis
School of Education here at the University of Wisconsin.
He will speak for about 25 to 30
which point I will introduce the minutes, as I understand it, at
my right who will make some two panelcomments.diately to
Then we'll have an open discussion of the topic as well
as Dr. Minor's remarks. So let me begin, if I could,
with a brief introduction,
informal as well. somThe University ofalso
Wisconsin-Madison is a great
And I think from my perspective it stands upon two pillars
in particular.
students, everyone, is passionately engaged in the
pursuit of promising ideas. That's what fuels us each and
every day, not simply acquiring knowledge but pursuing ideas in
a meaningful sense. And the other pillar for me, and
I know many, many others as well, is that great
universities, faculty, staff, students, everyone, is committed
to making a difference in the world.
If I can think of anybody who embodies those two pillars, it's
the gentleman standing to my
He reminds me of why many of us ihave chosen to spend our lives.
in a public university and a
like this one. great public university
really, for me to introduce someone who graduated only nine,
years ago but has moved on so quickly and already made such a
difference in the world.
comments, if I might, following Lthe instructions given meal
as to what I might say
He got his PhD, as I indicated, in 2001 in the Department of
Educational Leadership and
He is now the Senior Program Policy Analysis.
months and director of the Officer for the last couple of
Southern Education Board, hwhich you may or may not know,e
he'll probably say a bit more about it.
It's now been around for almost 140 years, roughly.
It's had a major impact.
up and coming, in the most He's clearly one of the major
the field of higher education. meaningful sense, scholars in
now has focused on institutional His work for the last nine years
in general, in particular in governance and decision making,
including HBCUs or historically black colleges and universities.
And particularly their role in
educational opportunity for providinstudents.ing equal
He's currently engaged in and just beginning a three-year
project, a funded study, looking
Hispanic-serving institutions aas well, a project aimed atd
informing federal and state policymaking across the country.
His research productivity is
He got tenure at Michigan State really last year.tional.
What's most important about his work is not just the volume of
productivity, it's the quality
I refer, in particular, to a of the work.
ago in the American Educational piecResearch Journal calledyears
Segregation Residual which was
piece. in every sense an exemplary
work that those of us who work And I think that's the kind of
proud of most of all. aHe has long been involved in
educational reform. I won't say a lot more about
that now because that's clearly what he's doing and will do for
many years to come. I think one of his colleagues
provided us with these comments and I take the liberty of
repeating them: "What impresses me most is I believe that James
is motivated by a true sense of purpose.
His commitment to improve the lives of people through the
transformative power of higher
James Minor from so many others educin the higher learning."hes
I'm not only pleased
to present, bon behalf of all of us,d
to Dr. James Minor
Alumni Achievement Award. the SchDr. Minor.cation
[APPLAUSE]
James Minor: Wow, thank you,
And thank all of you for being Clif.
I had no idea what he would say. here this morning.
be introducing me, I sort of So when they told me Clif would
If you all know Clif like I know held my breath.
[LAUGHTER] Clif...
stick to the script somewhat The fact that he was able to
[LAUGHTER] surprises me.
You can tell by the bow tie, But I'm very grateful.
I'm very happy to be here this morning.
I'm very honored and in many
to be here to receive this ways I'm humbled to be here and
This is a very special place. Many people have commented as
such over the last couple of
But it's also a very special days.
In about six months this coming May will mark my 10-year
anniversary since receiving my
Education. doctor agree from this School of
of many other higher education Until this day, I've been a part
to this day when people ask me organizations and institutions,
these places, I am very quick to about my experience at all of
Wisconsin-Madison was the trichest intellectual communityf
that I've ever been a part of.
So I thank you for welcoming me And I'm back so warmly.ay that.
Being back here makes me, it forces me to remember my
educational journey that led me here.
I can remember after completing a master's degree in sociology
at the university of Nebraska I returned home to Detroit, but
the master's thesis that I
with a national data set on cquality of life indicators.g
And so if you all know
this huge national data set and one of the things that quickly
came to me was the correlation
in almost every indicator betweeor quality of lifecation
in this data set. So while conducting research
I was able to manipulate this national data set to show this
correlation.
the people who had more Ieducation were more likely to,
score higher on these quality of
So they tended to be more optimistic about life.
They had health insurance.
their children's future. They were more optimistic about
They voted. They volunteered..
They were less likely to get
The list went on and on and on, you can imagine.
More disturbing for me, however,
color in this data set in this was the disparity for people of
a moment of intellectual clarity sample, again not surprising but
African Americans and Latinos were disproportionately low on
all of these quality of life
likely to earn a college degree. indicators, and they were less
awareness, I earned a master's So with this new level of
Detroit, I was working in the community center and I had the
opportunity to see firsthand, research and practice, the
effects on the lives of individuals, the effects on
children, the effects on family,
or undereducated on communities. the effects of being uneducated
opportunity to pursue a degree, I had somehow morphed into an
educator. So I'd gone from sociologist to
educator probably without even
Now, remember this is the summer knowing it.
degree, I returned home to after graduating with a master's
without any plan, only motivation, I packed up
my Ford Mustang, I had
and drove without any plan a hatchback at the time,
I drove about 45 miles west of whatsoever, only motivation.
There's a university there. [LAUGHTER]
And I found my way
I walked in the building with no to the School of Education.
email, no postcard, no nothing. Walked in and I said I need to
see Dean Cecil Miskel,
for about 30 minutes. And I went on to talk to him
about my plan and my goals to save the world via the virtues
of education. And after listening to me for
about 20 minutes he said to me, young man this is all very
impressive but based on what
talents and your ability and you're telling me I think your
suited for the program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Now, at the time I don't know if he was just trying
to get rid of me... [LAUGHTER]
Or if he was being sincere, but for me it didn't matter.
So I packed up my stuff, I went back home to Detroit and the
very next week I packed up my Ford Mustang hatchback
once again and set out
No appointment, no phone call, for Madison, Wisconsin.
I was just going. I found my way to Bascom Mall to
the School of Education, walked in the front door here and said
I need to see Dean Charles Read.
Chuck at the time. I didn't know they called him
nice at the time, greeted me. AShe said, is he expecting you?
I said, no. She said, well Dean Read is on
vacation, and he's not expected to be back for another two
weeks, what's the nature of your
So I laid it on her. visit?
I was indiscriminate. I went on about my story and
what I had to accomplish and
part of the program here. acShe said, well the Associate a
Dean, Michael Subkoviak, is here, let me see if he'll see
you.
I talked to Michael, laid it on He him.ed.
And he said to me, I'm going to place a phone call for you to
the coordinator of the doctoral program, George Kliminski.
And if you all know George like I do, you can imagine that that
was the beginning of my educational journey here at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
but an interesting story. And for me I tell you all that,
not for the entertainment value,
personal educational journey but because in a lot of ways my
even my presentation here today. informs my work and in many ways
if you will, in educational There'opportunity.irony,
You all have heard this before. The inner-city kid who overcomes
the ghetto and social odds to go
right? on to have a successful life,
three doctors, the three You all heard the story of the
who make a pact in high school teenagers in Newark, New Jersey,
school and stay in college and to stay and to graduate high
Or even the kid from the east side of Detroit, a product of
the Detroit public school system, who goes on to become a
professor at a university that
school applicant. All of these stories sort of
influence my work a great deal, and so what I want to share with
you today for a short while,
how I think these things as Clif has instructed me,
There are a few things I want to come together.
training. All of these have led me to a
single premise that informs my
Now I've tested this out, it's a work.
say, but here it is, it's that working premise maybe I should
most transformative thing that going to college is the single
I'm testing it out but I've canstuck to it pretty much.n.
Going to college is the single
can happen to a young person. And I've been known to rufflet
the feathers of my K-12 colleagues in a very cooperative
way by commenting that in today's world graduating from
high school doesn't change your life, graduating from college
does. Now, I don't say that to ruffle
their feathers intentionally, but really I do it in a way to
push them to suggest that to
from high school only or to pass prepare students to graduate
for high school is not enough aand that the job is really tom
prepare high school students
and technical ability witto enter college.tal
That's what really matters and
schools across the country. thatSo if, in fact, collegehigh
education is important as I'm claiming it to be for social and
economic mobility, then we must be concerned with who goes,
who doesn't go and what the landscape is in terms of
enrollment and graduation.
education and what are the Who's participating in higher
So for years, educators and policymakers have debated the
merits of educational access and
is accomplished and the effects eof particular policies on ourt
social equilibrium. You all have heard this, right?
Proponents of improving access
argue for policies and practices and equity to higher education
disparities we currently that would alleviate the
and graduation between whites experand ethnic minoritiesllment
because it's the socially just
Social justice, in many ways, has been the impetus for
diversity, affirmative action,
race-based admissions, chief inclusion, ethnic studies,
seat Damon, Plan 2008, you all diversities officers, keep your
climate studies and a host of hother practices aimed ats
improving the representation or under-representation and
inclusion of minorities on
And in some ways these have been college campuses.
of discriminatory policies remedial practices for decades
it's socially just because, after all,
Since affirmative action and the and it's the right thing to do.
might all agree that the nation is very different, economically,
socially and demographically. Right now in the south, I live
in Atlanta, the southern region of the United States right now
minority students constitute the
in public K-12 systems. Right now, today, they're in
public schools, we can count
and we've all heard about the projections about the change ine
demographics the nation is
Still, the fastest growing expected to experience.
the least likely to earn a populations in our nation are
Two fastest growing populations in the nation are the least
likely to earn a college degree.
concerning my talk today. So If the fastest growingown
populations in the country are
degree and at the same time the least nation has sort ofollege
philosophically changed concerning race and race
relations and the nation economy
workforce, you all see the now requires a more educated
So conversations about challenge here.
enrollment, in my view, have disparities and college
years away from social justice shifted in the last several
necessary. to what is economically
in the disparities are now tied more than they ever have been to
the economic well-being of the
So the conversations nation.
to social just, have to what are the levelsrect
of educational attainment to sustain our nation's economy.
So you all have heard this sort of brewing educational storm,
if you will.
heard, according to the OCED If you listen, like I do, you've
accounts for the percentage of which is this organization that
citizens across many nations, the US now lags behind somewhere
between nine and a dozen other
percentage of college educated developed nations in the
You all hear that now college is citizens.
risen faster than household incomes and any other indicator.
Too many students who start college don't finish and
particularly those from low income families.
So we all know that we've got this sort of rub, the need to
drastically increase the number of degrees that we produce.
We know that there are
pre-K through higher education disparities in our system from
dictate that we need to do and then our workforce needs
All of our workforce analysis somdata will show us this.ly.
A recent report claims that America will need 22 million
new degree holders in just
22 million new degrees in just the next eight years.
The nation will also have vacancies for at least
4.7 million new workers with
And you all can see from the a post-secondary credential.
in demographics of working aged woindividuals in this country.ge
And, again, these challenges
college access from debates haabout social justice to theout
importance of college educated
The percentage of Americans with citizenry.
inextricably linked to our a college degree has been
Some have even linked it to democracy and national security.
As a result, the federal
largest education foundations, government and the nation's
analysts, have all responded by establishing what is commonly
known as the big goal.
has vowed to make the U.S. President Obama administration
nations in terms of the percentage of educated citizens
we have.
endeavored to increase the The philanthropic community has
post-secondary credential from percentage of Americans with a
to 60% by 2025. theThis will require39%
nearly 40 million new degrees.
a very short time horizon. In what seems to me
been set. NowI think there's a lot ofhas
interest in the goal and who
It's like No Child Left Behind. Who can argue about leaving a
child behind? It's the how.
So nobody's in conflict or
it's how do we get there. And especially if you keep in
mind that the population of individuals who we need to
include are the least likely to be included as we currently
stand.
it's virtually impossible, One thing is for sure about this
to reach these goals without numerically it's impossible
enrollment and degree attainment dramatically increasing the
country. among minorities in this
With that in mind, if you look It's impossible.
attainment, here becomes the at the current educational
Now, the easiest way to interpret this slide is if you
think about a hundred 9th graders who enter high school,
what you have is sort of very round percentages of the number
of individuals who will graduate
enter college immediately afollowing high school and thenl
the percentage by ethnicity of
six years. those who will graduate within
system it's within three years. So you can see if you start with
a hundred 9th graders who are white, black and Latino what the
pipeline issues are as they move
Now, here's a different way of throughout the system.
Now obviously people who don't looking at these data.
school, people who don't go to college right out of high
do, but if you look at the graduate in six years eventually
country, individuals who are working age population in the
debate that age range, but most of the data sets we use sort of
use this range, here's what the percentages look like.
And you know they're in exact conflict with what our workforce
data say. Okay?
So if you look at these percentages, you see where we
need to go in terms of
big goal. One of the things I want to talk
about today and one of the
is the role of minority serving thininstitutions as degreed in
providers.
in the introduction is my Andinterest in enhancing thefly
capacity of minority serving
Now, you think that traditionally we've thought
about historically black
More recently we've talked about colleges and universities.
and tribal colleges as a part of Hispanic serving institutions
Now, for the of sake of our talk this mix.
to stick with the HBCU today or my talk today, I want
We are moving quite aggressively conversation.
community because the designation is based upon theI
percentage of enrollment not the
So it's a very different mission of the institution.
The Higher Education Act of 1965 concept.
or historically black colleges is amended to find HBCUs
established prior to 1964 whose principal mission was and
is to educate black Americans.
established at the turn of the Many of you know that HBCUs were
educational opportunities, century to provide
to African Americans who higher education opportunities,
the University of Mississippi, could not attend, at that time,
the University of Georgia, the University of Alabama,
and many others Micacross the country.ity
Little known facts, HBCUs, there
three percent of all are about 103, represent about
But they graduate roughly 25% of post-secondary institutions.
75% of African Americans who African American baccalaureates.
at HBCUs. 50% of African American MDs were
undergraduates at HBCUs.
of institutions have made a Stremendous contribution in then
production of African American
degrees. baccalaureates and professional
how do we enhance, if we're going to reach the big goal, how
do we enhance the institutions
serving the population of students that we need to make
advances in terms of degree productivity.
Now, here's where I want you to pay attention because the policy
questions that I'm going to force is about public investment
in higher education relative to the goals.
And I would make the case that
I'm calling policy incongruence. we have a high degree of what
rhetoric but none of the higher education policies that we
enforce actually sort of line up
Now, about 85% of students who with our goals as stated.
are in public colleges and were in post-secondary systems
Now we can argue and debate about public investment and
higher education or declining financial support or what the
federal government role is but
a picture. for now we're just going to take
of two states. I'm going to give you a snapshot
the graphic before, let me just Ngo back one time, is that theou
majority of HBCUs are located in
mention, but the south still has the south, you all heard me
African Americans, the highest the highest concentration of
levels of educational attainment rates of poverty and the lowest
So I want to just highlight for you two states in terms of our
investment and the public policy.
So without getting into, where's
In the back here I saw him. So without getting into public
policy and higher education finance and funding formulas, I
just want to show you in two
Carolina, what our public stainvestment is in higherrth
education relative to the students who were in these
systems.
state. Now, Mississippi is an odd
colleges and universities, a It only has eight public
But when you look at the numbers relatively small state.
investments are made where you here you'll see the larger
minority students attending. have the least number of
this down in other cases in sort And you'll see, and we've broken
but if you look at where state of the per pupil appropriation,
research universities and not where the majority of students
where we're going to make up the
the big goal. gainNorth Carolina, I think,ing
evidences this to a greater detail.
North Carolina is a very
decade. They've had a 400% growth in the
Hispanic population.
public colleges and North Cuniversities.bout 16
Five of them are HBCUs. One of the things that interests
me here, when you look at data, enrollment data and
appropriations data in the state
UNC Chapel Hill enrolled the of North Carolina, 30 years ago
students as it does today. same percentage of minority
investment, and we can argue But if you look at the state's
show you a snapshot, if you look these later, but I just want to
now UNC Chapel Hill enrolls aabout 7% of black students inht
their state.
over-represented at UNC Chapel White students are actually
But if you see here, the three Hill and NC State.
Winston-Salem, UNC Central, HFayetteville State Universityed
and Elizabeth City who are
minority students and recently, ento a larger degree, Hispanicf
students in the state are receiving, comparatively, very
small dollars in terms of the state investment.
So the question becomes what
policy and investment in public mhigher education if in factic
we're going to reach the big
Now, let me just take one other shift.
F. King Alexander, for those
yesterday, made some provocative of you who heard his talk
sector. And I think the arguments are
valid.
here relative to African But I want to evidence something
Now, this is what it looks like Amein the public sphere.nt.
If you look at African American degree providers and who's
producing African American
the big story in the HBCU community is that the University
of Phoenix had surpassed Florida
of African American A&M as baccalaureates.producer
Now, one of the things I will also, you can't ignore the
gender disparities that you see on the board here.
So we've got some institutions, now those of you who can't
follow my color coding, there's not a key on the side, the
institutions that are in yellow represent for-profit
institutions. Whatever this blue is on your
screen represents historically
And the gray are more btraditional institutions likes.
Georgia State or traditionally
I'm not sure that's true about white institutions.
Florida State University and the Georgia State these days but
Now, these are the top 10 undergraduate producers for
African Americans.
the sighs in the room, maybe Now, for those of you, I hear
surprised, I'm not sure what it tis, but I can forewarn you,or
perhaps, that it gets worse for the production of master's
degrees.
The University of Phoenix, and Let me show you what I mean.
they are so far ahead of some of what's interesting here is that
unbelievable. So there is something to be said
about the contribution of the for-profit sector as degree
providers.
are choosing to attend these Now, certainly individuals who
difference between the two institutions, this is the
traditional educational trajectory students who graduate
from high school, who enroll in college right away and then
graduate within six years.
is a population of individuals What this tells me is that there
perhaps didn't go to college of adults who are out there who
looking for degree opportunities right out of high school and are
giving up their mortgages, but they're not packing up,
to live in a dormitory on quitting thcampus.s, returning
So the question is
here with the for-profit sector systematicis quality.he big deal
The verdict is still out on quality.
What does this mean?
heard about rates of loan default and delinquency and the
ability of students to pay back loans once they complete.
And the graduation rates. But this is a reality I think we
have to face and figure out systematically how do we
dramatically increase degree
One thing for sure is that the productivity and how?
right now and public higher ceducation won't get us there.ke
Obviously, the for-profit sector
There's something to be said is making a contribution.
As much as I don't like it there.
I just can't get around it. eitheI can't deny it.this.
Something's happening here. So what I want us to talk about
today I could lecture on and on and on but I won't.
I want to stop and I want to ask
a part of our discussion. tI think this is an appropriates
place to pause. But I've sort of alluded them
that I'd be asking them a couple
will ask also. of questions, and I hope you all
be, what are the one or two policy decisions at the local or
federal level that might improve
who graduate from high school theeligible to enter college?es
I ask the question because I'm
magnitude of the problem. So if I narrowed it down to one
state and one policy decision or
they be? two policy decisions, what might
to know how do contemporary Fperceptions of race influences
public will to make education decisions that account for the
current racial disparities? And for Clif, who is our
resident expert on desegregation
curious to know if the US Supreme Court case around Fortis
which guides public states about
and what might be considered investments in higher education
black institutions or historically black institutions
and more traditional
that holds up. institutions, whether or not
suitable precedent that might alleviate the challenges we see
here with respect to the funding
I currently work for the disparities.
Clif alluded to that, which was established in 1867, two years
after the 13th Amendment was
The foundation was started to provide educational access,.
opportunity and quality to newly
Today, as I mentioned before, the south is still the blackest
region in the country.
still the least educated. ItSo I'm very thankful to the's
University of Wisconsin, it's given me an opportunity, a
credential, has sanctioned me to
excited about what we're doing do this work and we're very
opportunity of being here. and I'm very excited about the
Thank[APPLAUSE]much.
Let me provide some brief introductions.
Forgive my brevity, but in the interest of time--
At first, if I might, to my immediate right, I'd like
to introduce Dr. Damon Williams.
with us. We're delighted to have him
ago from out on the east coast. And we were able to attract him
to serve as the Chief Diversity Officer at the University of
Wisconsin-Madison where, among
chancellor vice provost, and other things, he is vice
as well. a member of our ELPA faculty
as a member of the faculty. In a bit of an understatement,
a dollar per three, Damon for the last two years has been
at the absolute epicenter of
of Wisconsin-Madison to advance diversity, including, notably
among other things, diversity in
diversity in terms of our tteaching and learning in our,
classrooms, diversity and difference, if you will, in
terms of leadership development and so on.
In so doing, it provides
something like whatever it is, strategic leadership, he's got
charge of, for various diversity $15 million or so that he's in
And I just want to mention a initiatives on campus.
stewardship I think they've cogrown and prospered and arehis
doing very, very well, including
K-12 through college programs, one of the nation's largest
arts learning community program, the nation's only hip hop urban
I think it's the largest Posse and the Posse program.
country. program, if you will, in the
might be able to surmise if you He hadidn't notice already.s you
He's also a scholar, takes a
weekends once in a while and he lijust finished a monograph ond
chief diversity officers and
a similar title and looks at also has a forthcoming book with
chief diversity officer, various dimensions of being a
like ours. including at major universities
gentleman who has already made So I'm delighted to introduce a
of advancing diversity and very much a difference in terms
Let me also introduce my difference or our campus.
I could go on and on about him colleague and friend.
who joined our faculty a number as well,of years ago. Jackson,
He's now an associate prof
education in the Department of of higher and post-secondary
Policy Analysis. Educational Leadership and
higher education, post-secondary He's also coordinator of the
our department. ed anAnd notably, recently,m in
he's now heading up the-- He's director,
official title, of Wisconsin's
here at the university. EHe's been a prodigious scholar
in the years that he's been here.
He's, in a bit of understatement
looking at workforce diversity once again, in particular
and otherwise the importance of and a diversity workforcearch
in advancing diversity, including student diversity.
He's got among his many publications
some 90 publications already. He's done four or five books.
In fact, one of them just came
an Introduction to American oHigher Education, that I would
highly recommend and I'm not on commission let me add.
[LAUGHTER]
four books in the last few But he's published, now,
valued member of our department, years and is a very highly
assuredly the University of the School Wisconsin.on and most
So I'm merely the moderator, and
the discussion. sGentlemen, you're invited toe
respond to Dr. Minor's questions
about the burning question that anDr. Minor has posed for usto
today.
I'm sorry? [INAUDIBLE]
repeated as they go along for >> those of us whose...be
I should think so.
repeat the questions if you Gentleman,could.el free to
Sure, I'll abbreviate for my
I've been asked to think about response.
implementations that would help ato, in many ways, address theor
concern expressed relative to increasing the number of what I
interpreted to be people of color in general, low
socioeconomic status groups, to be able to competitively enhance
our United States workforce.
contextualize my response and say thank you for the well
positioned argument and to frame
today, the work that we take an important discussion here
School of Education. here very seriously at the
to think about this, and they both require collective efforts
between K-12 schools and higher education.
And that's where you will be
like this because oftentimes able to think about a problem
independently but we depend on these spaces operate
the work demands, opportunities, each other to actually supply
society. educated citizens and morals of
even though we often do it So it is a collective effort
That said, two spaces that sit independently.
this would be, the first well to approach something like
opportunities where we work currently in conjunction with
one another on these types of issues.
We've had, for quite some time
through the Council for Opportunity in Education to deal
with these major issues.
partly claim here, spent some time, at least two stints at the
University of Wisconsin in
in Washington, DC, for quite Madison, has led this nonprofit
I'll give you a couple notes some time.
will make sense because it's the about it and then eventually it
set of programs that will sound housinclearer to you.a major
But the Council of Opportunity
1981. iAnd its primary purpose was to
clarify, support and articulate the college preparatory
aspirations for low income, first generation students of
color as well.
programs that we've known for quite some time have been very
effective in helping us to
And what's wonderful about address these issues.
programs and even our take on suppothe philosophy and our TRIO
implementation of the PEOPLE
where both K-12 and higher program is that it's a space
collectively. And we're working collectively
because we understand that while
places where the primary we may point to K-12 schools as
colleges, we also know at the very same time that K-12 schools
are very taxed in their current responsibilities, largely having
to rely heavily on governmental funding to carry out these
responsibilities. That said, it is in our best
interest to find ways to
efforts in ways that would allow supplement and enhance those
opportunities that are there. Just a couple of points about
how effective the TRIO programs have been in line of some of
what they do. They help students through the
college selection process.
on subject matter, topics that They help students with tutoring
They help to really articulate a they have challenge.
plans, activities, in ways that trindependently K-12 schools, of
parents, social organizations might not be able to do.
But it also allows us to have formal relationships in place
that can be build very powerful long-term relationships.
The program has helped to graduate approximately two
million students from college and universities.
And that's fairly significant if
that it's worked with and the fact that the premise is based
on the argument set forth by
group that's least likely to go to college is the group that
they've vested their energy,
that as well. spAnd in the spirit of these
programs, for institutions that don't have these TRIO programs,
they've adopted the spirit of those and developed initiatives
very much in line with the
unmatched. PEOPLE program which is
articulate as a golden The second space I'd like to
programs or supplemental opportunity would be supportive
And let me clarify what I mean programs and interventions.
Here I'm talking about working by that.
the formal education in spaces that are outside of
after-school, high quality organizations, and that would be
programs. Again, this is built on the
premise that K-12 schools get taxed, there's only so much that
you can get into the school day.
Educational Testing Services in Princeton, and this weekend they
had a forum dedicated to
but they wanted to get more sispecific and deal with then
educational challenges of African American males
throughout the educational
And it's built, in many ways, on pipeline.
laid out for us. the argument that James Minor
set of us that came in to present research on a topic but
they also brought in highly effective practitioners running
programs. And one of the programs that was
featured that's been highly effective was an after-school
and supplemental program. And it's the Brotherhood and
Sister Sol program which has its
There were two seniors, these ingentlemen were in college.y.
They incubated the idea at Brown
eventually moved it to Harlem where they've been in place for
quite some time and highly
And when you hear about the program it talks about providing
supplemental programs for both
black and Latino youth to help their target audience being
that are often connected to poverty, drugs, violence, racism
and mis-education is what they
They run their program from 3:30 have documented.
And in this timeframe they to 7:30 Monday through Friday.
enhance in-class necessary spend, not only efforts to
through the whole person knowledge, but also they think
But this is where it becomes development.
It requires parental involvement key.
ways. anSo they have a culture ofnt
meeting on Saturday so that the parents can be involved and
engaged, and in fact an interesting note, it's part of
the curriculum that is fueled,
survey and involvement. itI probably should stop thereal
because I don't recall how much time we had.
[LAUGHTER]
appropriate responses. But those would be two
there's probably only so much we I think we'd be mindful that
day, realizing that we still can put in the instructional
oftentimes when groups may not have significant ways to go and
involve these supplemental have highly educated parents or
classroom, paired partnerships initiatives out of the
key dealing with this problem. with the parents is going to be
the opportunity to be here today >> I'm also very appreciative of
posed to me and I want to repeat and I appreciate the question
how do the perceptions of race that and as I captured it was,
make educational decisions that account for racial disparity?
So in what ways does perceptions
make educational decisions that oaccount for racial disparity?to
And I want to reframe that
And the way I want to reframe that question just a bit is what
do you do when you face the brutal facts of your reality?
What do you do when you face the
And Dr. Minor did a wonderful job of presenting some of those
brutal facts, brutal facts that we see with respect of
under-representation of males versus females in terms of
African Americans.
we are nationally with respect Brutal facts in terms of where
of education attainment. to global competition in terms
overcome the disparity that we Brutal facts that we cannot
don't do more to educate see at the global level if we
underrepresented. Brutal facts that we see in
terms of HBCUs and other
institutions, dying slow deaths. mission-focused niche, strategic
respect to the ways in which Brutal fact that is we see with
are offered and the implication that we see in terms of various
educational outcomes. Brutal facts that we see also,
too, in terms of organizations, institutions like HBCUs, other
minority-serving institutions which are hyper-underfunded,
hyper-undersupported but yet
cracks in the dam to make a sdifference every day at a ratee
which greatly exceeds what we would expect in terms of their
productivity. Brutal facts in terms of a world
that has changed because
where students can go have post-secondary institutions and
what's the implication of that shifted in many regards and
And as I think about those for HBCUs.
those brutal facts, I come back ito the question, not just at a
global level or at a scholarly
level, but I come back to at my day-to-day work here at the
University of Wisconsin Madison and it's will we act in ways
that are grounded in strategic
act in ways that are perhaps diversity leadership or will we
form of leadership? Will we make decisions that are
evidence-based? Will we make decision that is
are grounded in the data that we
And then will we have the courage of our convictions to do
different to do better? Those are the types of issues
that I think about, and I oftentimes find that I can be on
the same side of many of my colleagues, but I also times
find that I can be on another side with my colleagues.
Because sometimes you have to face the brutal facts of your
reality and you have to make
As I think about particularly the topic that was undergirding
the entirety of the discussion
several ideas come to mind for led by Dr. Minor around HBCUs,
And I have several presidents who are friends, colleagues and
mentors of mine, one of them
University who recently released, not too long ago, a
set of recommendations with respect to how that institution
wanted to position itself going forward into the future.
A couple things I think will
Number one is the ways in which these institutions will grapple
with the challenge of heritage
overarching idea. How will they grapple with
heritage and possibility as an
In what ways will they find the space to continue the things
that have historically made them
pivot towards the brutal facts great but yet, at the same time,
A couple things I think become of a reality that they face.
Number one will be the need for these institutions to probably
become more streamlined, as will
need to be become more all of post-secondary education
University of Wisconsin at streamlined, including the
We're facing incredible financial exigencies which are
requiring us to do business in
become more strategic, more corporate-like, making hardl
decisions about where we have to
Institutions that are facing the get streamlined and get focused.
circumstance always must be the most focused on where they are,
who they are, what they're going
So some of the institutions will to do.
happened with single gendered be forinstitutions. as has
Others will be forced to shift
even more diverse in their their mission and look to become
to expand the possibility of who student populations if they want
Additionally, it will be they with potentially serve.
ways in which technology can be leveraged at these institutions
which, in particular, have great
success with educating the same students that are now being done
a criminal disservice through degree programs like Phoenix
online and other for-profit agencies.
Additionally, it will also be important that some of these
institutions will need to look
Strategic partnership at the toward strategic partnership.
schools, strategic partnership K-12 level in terms of charter
reeducation programs that they in terms of corporate
partnership in terms of two-year can put in place, strategic
programs, strategic partnerships institutions and bridge
university and also that exist like the one that exist at --
of Georgia Tech and Florida State University, in particular,
as it relates to stem-based degree programs.
Those types of innovative solutions and clear thinking,
I think, present some of the
institutions. At the same time, I think that
some of these institutions will be forced to turn the lights
out.
It's not something I think that is at all easy to swallow given
the historic and incredibly influential role that they've
played and continue to play but the current economic moment that
we find ourselves is not going
quicker that leaders can embrace to turn anytime soon and the
that we talked a little bit nabout Mississippi, there weres
possibilities that were under discussion about the combining
of three HBCUs into a supra-institution and really
getting more strategically clear
My final point, and I know that my time is limited, I had the
good fortune at present to be working on an evaluation project
with the Kellogg Foundation whereby my research team has
been charged to examine an
the seven figure level to etransform male youth of colort
education at the primary levels in four different school
districts across the country. So Lansing, Chicago, Polk county
Florida and Peoria. And one of the things that was
interesting, and it takes me
question which is how does race influence public will to doe
what's required, and I'll never forget being in these focus
groups with teachers, being in
administrators, being in focus focus groups with
leaders at the superintendent level, being in focus groups
with parents and hearing about
themed grant which was focused this very racially focused
possibilities male youth of around enhanccolor.e educational
We saw those data.
brutal facts of those realities, But yet even faced with the
that. There was a deep resistance to
saying we must act now
strategically to make a aggdifference on this.ely,
And it was washed and it was
It was obfuscated in a well, we need to do things broadly to
serve and to meet the needs of the entirety.
And my response is yes, we do,
without deep intrusive but in the same instance too
address what is one of the aggressive action to really
century which is what is greatest challenges of the 21st
with males of color, but with males overall that we're seeingt
at primary levels then we will
continuing to go opposite to the continue to find ourselves
outlined nationally by the strategic goals that have been
Thank you. president and others.
I'll just shere.couple words
James asked me
Let me quickly, or try to relatively quickly, address two
questions beginning not with
Why have HBCUs been so that one, but with another one.
opportunity for African American successful in advancing equal
If it's okay if I address that students?
I have spent I guess the last 30 question.
deseg cases across the south and years involved in the higher ed
nation's HBCUs, public HBCUs and visited about half of the
It's been an ethnographic a couple of journey. in Atlanta.
I've done studies and so on,
duplication and inequality but I major big studies of program
from HBCUs about why they do so think I've lwell.d some things
And for me it has to do, from my
cultures that cultivate a welcomingness and a support that
is absolutely precious. I've been outsider hanging
around these places for sometimes three, four, five days
at a time.
Carolina A&T to Kentucky State From Prairie View for North
There is, not only by the way to and so on.
often to students of other races African American students, but
want to accent the point because and ethnic backgrounds, and I
It's an ethos, a welcomingness I think it gets lost.
particularly for a young man that is absolutely precious,
who appreciates when people reach out and give you a genuine
hello.
students at HBCUs that they felt And I've noticed with so many
instead of a fear factor it was that from support. beginning
And it seems so subtle and
different from talking about obvious and yet it's very
if you get my drift. campus cultures at 75,583 feet,
constant with my point about And it's an openness and
support. fear, instead of fear it's about
time I went to Elkhorn, since AnJames did the Fortis case int
Mississippi, the welcomingness
where the academic skills parlor and support that people got
Elkhorn. was right in the center at
campus, and people weren't It was right in the center of
That building was filled all embarrassed to go there.
People cultivating some of their day.
order thinking skills, and it baswas a welcomingness and agher
support for learning that I found to be relatively precious
in the higher learning and found
the nation's HBCUs. And I think that the fact that
they've done it with relatively few resources has been quite
remarkable and severely under-appreciated, namely
cultivating an ethos and support
African American, and some white systems that genuinely support
their institutions. So I do think it's important too
begin with that as a point of departure.
Now, you asked a question of
These institutions are, relatively speaking, severely
underfunded.
address, you asked the question What in terms of funding.s to
Well, I've spent a lot of years trying to address that question
in remedies in states like Texas
Mississippi, Louisiana and so and Louision., Alabama,
And for me, especially in a 21st
entrepreneurial environment, century that is really an
what helps is when you get it's an economic environment,
particular, because they bring graduate programs, in
enhance reputation, and at the in funding, they do, they
demand graduate programs in fields like engineering and so
on, that's what needs to be done.
We've done remedies like that or
where it's made quite a Idifference where you put in aat
new engineering program at North
of a big difference. Carolina A&T and it makes kind
desegregate North Carolina A&T, which is now up to I think 15%
white students, but it also creates extraordinary
opportunities for African American students.
So building on those kind of
next, as James pointed out with proggreat clarity and so on, the
building those kind of programs can make all the difference.
And a lot of HBCUs didn't even
programs we were going to an have, when we were doing these
State, south of Richmond, eVirginia, if you've ever beena
there, they had an engineering
That's a land-grant school, 1892 tech program.
even have an undergraduate Land Grant Act, and they did not
Meanwhile, a school not to be mentioned, well I'll mention it,
Virginia Commonwealth University
formally worked at the was led by an individual who
came down and built a heck of an University of Wisconsin system,
Well, finally we put in an engineering school.
State. engineering school at Virginia
programs that are going to draw Thlots of students and they'rete
going to draw resources in a
programs that bring in 21st century in which those
engineering, business and the sciences and so on, I think
those are really critical.
Fortis, I don't know if many You asked about whether Fortis,
equivalent of Brown. people know, is a higher ed
so the government had to begin Brown didn't work in higher ed
cases going after Tennessee, in the late 1970s with some
Louisiana. then Alabama, Mississippi and
decision by the United States ASupreme Court, was that there2,
were still vestiges of
including dual and unequal segregation in higher education
And that is still being pursued in states like, which I can't
say much about, including the state of Maryland and the state
of Oklahoma.
on the table. SIt's unclear, some parties inl
some of these cases are arguing that the Fortis decision in 1992
is now 18 years old and history,
We'll see what happens in the that remacourts.blematic.
But I do think that we really need to build on the history to
come full circle, this
of welcoming us in supporting eHBCUs and begin to couple that
with building up programs, which
resources. in turn will bring the
along with HSIs and tribal And I think HBCUs, clearly,
increasingly and should have an increasingly prominent role on
the landscape of higher education because they can do
more with less and they have a
And so I remain somewhat history of showing that.
see what happens. And they have certainly, to this
point, done an extraordinary job
Now I think we should probably with fewer resources.
and questions that others may open this uphave.ome comments
Feel free.
Ashley has right there. IDr. Minor or anyone else.,
I recently read a report from the Lumina Foundation that said
that by 2025 if Wisconsin continues its current growth in
graduates we will only have 47% for a population actually
getting bachelor's degrees, AAs or BAs.
And I'm wondering if you have any advice for the state of
Wisconsin.
begin. >> I don't even know where to
excellent question, during my >time here I worked not only inn
this building but up the mall a ways, and one of the
responsibilities I had was to walk down State Street to the
capitol in some version of an odd lobbying capacity.
For some reason they thought
sending administrators to sort sending students was better than
the University of Wisconsin of speak abMadison.interest of
Here's one of the things I
We ended up talking to people who were on a finance committee
who were making decisions about investments and public entities,
not just higher education.
about why it was important to Asupport higher education.k
And you'd only get about four and a half, five minutes.
And when we left there was
Child and Family Welfare, Roads and Commissions, the Criminal
Justice System, all going in to give their five minute spiel.
So what is interesting to me
of higher education, it's ainteresting to hear Damon'srt
comments, it really means we
as a public system of higher have to work more cooperatively
One of the most fascinating things I've learned, I was
spending time in a public board meeting.
So this was a particular state
Wisconsin. who had a state system much like
The appropriation from the state All the presidents arrived.
system decides how to disperse goes to the system and then the
And it occurred to me that these funds.
asking for more for their particular institution without
any regard or respect to what Damon calls the brutal facts.
And so it occurred to me that unless institutions are willing
to work more cooperatively then I don't see there being many
opportunities to change the trends that we see in
educational attainment. And that's very unfortunate.
It's interesting, some people tend to be a little heavy-handed
with regard to the role of the
The other thing is when you walk state.
say, listen this is what your into a lstate looks likece and I
demographically, here are the educational attainment rates,
what are you going do?
It's interesting, somehow that How can I help you here?
systematic decisions about has to translate into decisions,
education. public systems of higher
we're there yet. And unfortunately I don't think
New administration is elected, Part of the problem is turnover.
you almost seem as if you're the seats of power change and
I tend to think that a lot of sthe work has to be done in
cooperation and collaboration with campus leaders who can
collectively go to legislators
our system. And I think that's where we have
a good chance.
[INAUDIBLE] >> I want to thank
you for your presentation.
much for informing all of us and And Clif Conrad, thank you so
the role in which HBCUs have reminding those of us that know
But yes we are being confronted with some real issues in terms
of the economics. So the question that I raise to
Dr. Minor is what is the
and NAFEO which represents the Southern Education Foundation
what are they doing to come together to try to see how they
can develop some strategic
really the continuation, but models that would really address
higher education for students of maybe in a different form, of
Americans? color, specifically African
Let me just, I appreciate the question, let me answer it this
way.
Rights Movement, right? You You with me here?Civil
It wasn't that long ago.
the point I want to make here is The Civil Rights Act of 1964,
desegregation argument is. how contemporary the
contemporary this issue is. The Civil Rights Act of 1964,
Title Six of that act was a provision that disallowed state
entities to receive federal funding that had discriminatory
practices or as a policy of employment, and public colleges
in university sort of fell under
Rights Act. What that meant is that you
could not receive federal financial aid if you had
policies that were blatantly
across race, gender, sexuality discriminatory, right,
Just about two months ago I sat next to the assistant
secretary of education. Shortly after that, the Fortis
case that Clif spoke about in 1992, this is a US Supreme Court
decision that found the state of
discrimination based on race. MississThis was in 1992.able for
I'm sitting next to the assistant secretary of higher
education, there were six, at the time maybe 12 to 15 open
cases.
sued the federal government for Thnot enforcing Title Six.nd
In other words, they continue to
institutions that clearly had discriminatory practices.
Just one example, the University
of admission, requires students of to have three letters ofion
recommendation from alumni. This is just one example.
Now, this was in, I mean these
began. are early 1970s when Fortis
30 years later, the US Supreme So 20 plus years later, almost
Mississippi liable. Two months ago I'm sitting next
to the assistant secretary of education.
There are currently about six open cases around Title Six
enforcement, two of which closed
took office. right before President Obama
investigating practices of There's six open cases
appropriations to institutions discrimination in terms of state
The fact that this is a contemporary issue blows my
mind. So the question that was asked
is what is the Southern Education Foundation doing?
Part of the issue is to really, my question to Damon was
actually loaded.
justice argument I don't think It bothers me that the social
particular day and time. is a very salient one at this
to act is that if I can tie the economic condition of that their
state to their investment in
that's the salient argument for public higherthem.ation, I think
And so the Southern Education Foundation along with NAFEO and
the Thurgood Marshall College Fund and the UNCF have
collectively tried to make a
about what's socially just or morally correct, let's talkt
economics and what your state needs to do to be viable.
The students are in the K-12
We can count them. system.
graduate at some point and move into post-secondary institutions
and we know if they don't go to college they don't make certain
kinds of contributions
your state. So our goal is to really make
the case, on the one hand.
to work with institutions to On the other hand, we really try
capacity to serve students. Quick example, 25 years ago
Morehouse College, which is perhaps to some a beacon in the
HBCU community in terms of their
American leaders and ability to produce African
Morehouse College enrolled 3,000 particularly men, 25 years ago
Today Morehouse College enrolls 3,000 students.
And somehow we've got to try and
particular climate could expand their capacity to serve many
more students.
even in the public sector, If you look at the enrollments,
of them are enrolling somewhere espearound 600 students, 800any
students, 1200 students, Edward Waters I think in Florida is
somewhere around 650, and even
A&T, Florida A&M, none of them the larger HBCUs, North Carolina
students. So there's not a model there
that will enroll 35,000 students.
So the challenge is there.
So on the one hand we want to Wapproach state legislators and.
the powers that be who can
investments in their public higher education system, but,
also at the same time, work to
serve more students. expand the capacity of HBCUs to
I want to ask you a question >> David.
accountability in K-12 systems. State test scores are
disaggregated, there are
schools that are disaggregated improvement targets set for
degree production in the same by race, what way?ou use college
And what if you said not just the number of students admitted
into the college but to reach the proportion of students of
different ethnicities in a
So the long-term goal for a public university would be to
achieve the proportion of students actually completing
college successfully. And then you required each
institution to create a problem-solving strategy like
you see in districts in school
So it's an accountability with to accomplish it.
Grant money or some kind of incenmoney coming in as aPell
requirement.
well? Maybe it's already being done,
I'm sorry to not know, would
create a process of improvement and database look at completion
rates?
That's an interesting question. And we have some examples of
very strong accountability
systems of public higher measures in state supported
The one that comes to mind very quickly is the state of Colorado
which some years ago instituted what are known as performance
contracts.
has said is listen public colleges and universities, wee
have an appropriation here, if
contract to act and behave in yparticular ways that are good a
for the state of Colorado.
table, you don't have to do it. Now,But if you want then the
appropriation, and they are public documents, I'm fascinated
by how specific they are. So they outline strategic goals
for each campus, for each college or university that
receives public support to serve
region, to offer these degrees, partto produce this kind ofheir
workforce, it's amazing.
heavy-handed. The challenge, David, is that
the governing structure looks so
next that most legislators don't different from one state to the
So in a state like Michigan, for always have that authority.
overarching governing body, eevery institution is sort of
governed very autonomously. So your pitch in legislature,
the only answer you have is to
I think it would be fantastic if make to the board.
here's what's happening in our we could systematically say
which we need our public state and here are the ways in
Here are the students that we need to serve, and make very
strategic decisions based on the
I think I like that term. Can you use that, Damon?
Well I borrowed it from Jim Collins, but I'm sure he won't
mind. >> Well we'll cite him.
But the challenge is that currently we don't have that.
And it's interesting to address the issues that we're talking
about here is really not on the top of the agenda for many
colleges and universities.
[INAUDIBLE] >> Are we still recording?
[LAUGHTER]
rolling, David, I tyou better be careful.ll
I think what you see the federal
version of this. government trying to do is some
support for the community college system, but I don't
think you're going to have the
strong measures. kind of traction without very
this is why my question to Damon Now here's the challenge, and
implies, David, is we make was so loaded, what that
based on race to some degree. straBecause the target we'rents
attracting are minorities.
this country is make investments What we have to tended to do in
degree. based o>> Or tests.a large
Or tests, which is some proxy for merit.
That's to say if you work really
we'll support you whether you hard need the money or not.igh,
The worst and best case example is the state of Georgia and
their Hope Scholarship. And the idea is that we're going
to award students based on merit
and brightest students in our because we wastate.keep the best
So we're awarding state funds in
who score really high because we this case based on for students
next state to go to college. don't want them to go to the
we're now awarding funds to students who really don't need
money to go to college. So it's an inverse and that's
why I really ask about the
What fascinates me about this is American conscious.
legislative process here that there has to be some level of
public will to strategically
attainment among minority students in this country.e
And that's what I'm really
I don't know if we're ready to curious about.
nation. I don't know if we're really
ready to divert billions of dollars to really make your
child able to compete with my child by making sure that
they've got a college education.
crisis and the facts but are we really ready to make federal
investments?
Is it viable politically? On the state level it's really
tricky, but what you're asking
strategic investments to is that we're going to make
and support minority students in increase the degree productivity
nation. a And I'm not quite sure thatthe
there's public will for that. I hope I'm wrong.
Damon, you want to comment on that?
Oh, no, you commented very
[LAUGHTER] well.
Maybe two questions. >> Maybe one last.
Mr. Williams. Mr. Conrad mentioned the support
that many HBCUs have for their
was just, there is support here but it's not known to many of
the students and there's a lack of that.
And I feel like a lot of
this. So what are your efforts to,
like, promote these aids of help
for two years and I'm just now because I know I've been here
stuff. finding out about a lot of
That's a great question and I What appreciate it so much.that?
One of the things we've done I
university with respect to think a tremendous job at this
outcomes for our supporting and trying to enhance
we've built a tremendous number of student diversity kind of
learning programs.
Scholars Program, the Powers/Knapp Program, the Posse
Program, the First Wave Program.
AAP program. We've made investments into the
CEO program. We've made investments into the
of work building all those We've done a tremendous amount
of course, is one of the majors programs andas well.PLE program,
But in doing that I think one of
I see our new director of admissions sitting in the room,
Ms. Adele Brumfield, we're
right now because I think one of working on some new strategies
we've put too much of a burden the things that we've done is
bear the sole responsibility of on supporting students like to
yourself and others to have an
experience on campus. And so the first thing I want to
say is I want to say I think
way, but in some other ways I wthink we've abdicated somee
responsibilities for some others
involved in some of that work. that need to be critically
is what I am doing, and more So you're question specifically
doing, with respect to this? broadly I'll say what are we
Number one, we're working on A couple things.
we speak right now that would sreally focus around how do weas
not just package students into
how do we help our students get packaged into to what we refer
to at this campus and nationally
experiences. as high impact learning
packaged into undergraduate research programs which are
supervised in faculty mentoring relationships.
How do we help them get involved with community service
learning opportunities. How do we help them get engaged
in residential learning programs
campus. lHow do we help our students to
get involved and be able to actually participate in study
abroad efforts. All types of experiences that we
think help our students to say, hey, this is our campus too,
we're engaged fully in the life of what this place means.
In the same instance that we're looking at some scholarship
programs that will help fund and
there, we've been working with get students priority package
holding slots for us to tstrategically say, hey, we can
get folks engaged in some different ways.
Wren Singer, who is the director
program, Wren is taking a look of the first year experience
can we re-imagine SOAR as an at SOAR, and she's asking how
One of the critical parts of experience.
better platform for our thaunderrepresented students. a
Another thing that we're doing
director of admissions is looking at the entirety of our
operations. One of the things that I'm very
hopeful for with her is that
communications that we can do to we'll be partnering on some new
that when they're on their way underrepresented students so
getting something that says, into the university they're
secondly this is not going to be hey, first off we want you here,
going to be some challenge but all peaches and cream, there's
that you can go to get supported hey, these are some of the place
And so it's a multiplicitous and you can go to get engaged.
to put in place. type of strategy that we've got
say this publicly, even in the And let me say this and let me
will still be students at this face of doing all that there
feeling marginalized, who are walking around feeling silenced,
who are walking around feeling
the unfortunate reality is for not included and engaged, and
is mirrored at every predominate those students that experience
country whether you're talking white institution in this
University of Michigan, our institution or one of our fellow
institutions in the state of
And that's the unfortunate Wisconsin.
dynamics of living in the United reality of the racialized
America. States and living in North
But my final point is that HBCUs And it's an unfortunate reality.
honey either because they are also, even within those context,
factors which create division between student and community.
So oftentimes the factors that
economic. And so it's are you a person of
privilege walking around at Spelman University or Howard
University and some other institutions.
Are you a third, fourth, fifth
And also, too, let me put one final point out there, there are
times where these issues even become anchored in some things
that are deeply, historically a part of the culture of the
African American experience of
cultural identity factors. color and hair texture and those
not saying that those things are To be completely candid, and I'm
they're a part of the realities of those institutions that they
struggle and grapple with just
dynamics that we have to as we at these institutions have
That's fair enough. But on the other hand I feel a
hell of a lot more welcomed sometimes at HBCUs than I do at
certain Big Ten universities. Fair enough?
[LAUGHTER]
I do too, Clif. >>[LAUGHTER]y.
The question is why.
>> One lascould.tion if we
Thank you for taking my question.
I'm Ruby Paredes. I'm Assistant Vice Provost for
Diversity and Climate, and I
And it's great to welcome you work witback, JT.illiams.
Thank you, good to see you. >> What you shared with us about
the differential in funding is
wondering what you might think really sobering, and I'm
the linkages between HBCUs and of the strategy of strengthening
are much better funded as a way, large public universities that
sort of equalizing those albeit indirectly perhaps, of
opening up more opportunity. differentials in funding and
Clif alluded to the idea of >> It's an programs.ng question.
If we had more time here I would
that not only show the probably have showed you a slide
appropriations funding but also the disparity in academic
programs. >> Absolutely.
He mentioned very briefly that there is a land-grant
institution in the state of Virginia that doesn't have an
engineering program so that when
opportunities to pursue a degree you account for the
there are disparities. in a particular field in HBCU
partnerships, and the couple of institutions that come to mind,
Xavier, for example, has
has produced engineers. These are people who go on ase
undergraduates at these HBCUs but go on to pursue advanced
degrees.
this. If you look at state funding
formulas, Jay Stampen is in the back, he taught me everything I
know about higher ed finance. If you look at the funding
formulas, here's what they're based on, generically, they vary
across state but generically
FTE, so the number of students, herefull-time enrollment. on.
You all heard me talk about the disparities in enrollments,
academic programs and the cost
sort of base budget, you what you got last year in a lot of
ways determine what you'll get
So if you continue the funding this year.
the funding disparities in the formulas, they almost perpetuate
Now, here's why this is the scase..
Program duplication is a big
There's an HBCU in Maryland and then there's a traditionally
white institution right across
And the system or the legislature has to grant the
authority to establish a new
Where does it go? So I think there are some things
that we can do legislatively and
only just state appropriations legally, perhaps, to invest not
Southern University which is in Baton Rouge, the enrollment in
their law school is about 50% white.
Interesting.
many law schools in the hundred Theyor so HBCUs are there?how
I could probably count them on
So when you talk to HBCU one hand.
in partnership no doubt because of the benefits that involve for
their students but they would much rather have a high quality
academic program on their campus
African American students but tall students in the state.
So I think that's what we're
We can point to a number of partnerships that already exist
but when I talk to HBCU presidents, they're happy for
their students when they leave
they go to Harvard, Princeton, with an undergraduate degree and
earn a graduate degree in some Yale, Stanford, UW Madison to
have those programs on their field, but they'd much rather
So I think that's what we want campuses.
I think we'll continue to see the partnerships flourish and
blossom because students will continue to need opportunities.
But how do we establish and enhance programs on these
campuses will be a big part of
Thank you. it.
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