>> A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART OF
OUR "HERE AND NOW" 2020 ELECTION
COVERAGE.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," ZAC
SCHULTZ TAKES US TO MILWAUKEE
FOR COVERAGE OF THIS WEEK'S
TRUMP CAMPAIGN RALLY.
NEW POLL NUMBERS SHOW HOW
DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY CANDIDATES
STACK UP AGAINST PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
EXPERT INCITE INSIGHT INTO PURGING
WISCONSIN VOTERS FROM THE ROLLS.
AND STATE SUPREME COURT
CANDIDATE JILL KAROFSKY IS HERE.
>> FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY THE
FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND
PBS WISCONSIN.
>> THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF
DONALD TRUMP TRANSITIONED FROM
THE LOWER HOUSE UP TO THE SNUT
SENATE, WHERE CHRNLINGS CHARGES OF ABUSE
OF POWER WILL BE TRIED.
MEANWHILE, THE PRESIDENT IN
WISCONSIN THIS YEAR, WHERE THE
TOPIC OF IMPEACHMENT BARELY CAME
UP.
"HERE AND NOW" REPORTER ZAC
SCHULTZ WAS THERE.
>> DONALD J. TRUMP.
>> TUESDAY NIGHT, DONALD TRUMP
WAS WELCOMED BY A STANDING
OVATION IN DOWNTOWN MILWAUKEE.
>> HELLO, MILWAUKEE.
HELLO.
>> A TRUMP CAMPAIGN RALLY ALWAYS
FOCUSES MORE ON THE RALLY THAN
THE CAMPAIGN.
>> YOU GOTTA LOVE TRUMP.
>> EVEN BEFORE THE PRESIDENT'S
ARRIVAL, WISCONSIN SENATOR RON
JOHNSON TOLD THE CROWD TO
PREPARE FOR AN EXPERIENCE.
>> BUT DONALD TRUMP IS DIFFERENT
AND DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO
COME HERE.
HE'S GOING TO INSPIRE YOU AND
HE'S GOING TO ENTERTAIN YOU A
YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE IN A
REALLY GOOD MOOD.
>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHY SO MANY IN
THE CROWD WAITED IN LINE FOR
HOURS TO GET A FRONT ROW SEAT.
>> THE ENERGY, THE PEOPLE.
I LOVE IT.
IT'S CLOSE TO HOME, SO SOMETHING
TO DO ON A TUESDAY NIGHT.
NOTHING BETTER THAN A TRUMP
RALLY ON A TUESDAY NIGHT, BABY.
HOOH!
>> WE'RE LOOKING FOR EXCITEMENT
AND HE'S GOING TO SUPPLY IT.
>> THE CROWD PROVIDED THEIR OWN
EXCITEMENT DOING THE WAVE AND
CHANTING "FOUR MORE YEARS."
>> GREAT.
IT'S BETTER THAN A BALL GAME.
>> IS THERE EVER, EVER BETTER A
PLACE TO BE THAN A TRUMP RALLY?
>> TRUMP SPENT HIS TIME TALKING
ABOUT HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN
OFFICE, CRITICIZING HIS
OPPONENTS AND THE MEDIA.
>> ANYTHING I SAY THAT IS
SLIGHTLY FALSE, IT'S HEADLINES.
THESE PEOPLE.
HE SAID THIS.
THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST -- I
WOULD SAY THIS.
THIS IS THE GREATEST MOVEMENT IN
THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.
>> BUT TRUMP SAYS THINGS THAT
ARE SLIGHTLY FALSE, AS HE
ACKNOWLEDGES, AND THINGS THAT
ARE BLATANTLY FALSE, LIKE THE
15,000 FALSE OR MISLEADING
CLAIMS TRACKED BY THE WASHINGTON
POST THROUGH DECEMBER LAST YEAR.
HE REPEATED ANOTHER LIE TUESDAY
REGARDING WHETHER MEXICO IS
PAYING FOR THE WALL.
>> THEY THINK THEY CAUGHT ME.
THEY NEVER CATCH US.
MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL.
YOU KNOW THAT.
YOU'LL SEE THAT.
IT WILL WORK OUT.
>> MEXICO IS NOT PAYING FOR THE
WALL.
TRUMP IS ACTUALLY DIVERTING
MONEY AWAY FROM THE MILITARY FOR
THE RECONSTRUCTION THAT'S
UNDERWAY, SOMETHING HE
ACKNOWLEDGED JUST AN HOUR LATER
IN THE SAME SPEECH.
>> A VERY BIG AND POWERFUL
BORDER WALL IS GOING UP AT A
RECORD SPEED AND WE'RE FULLY
FINANCED NOW.
ISN'T THAT NICE?
THAT WASN'T EASY.
>> YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.
HE IS WHAT HE IS.
>> BUT MANY TRUMP SUPPORTERS
DON'T WORRY ABOUT A FACT CHECK
BECAUSE THEY CONSIDER HIM TO BE
EMOTIONALLY HONEST.
>> 100% HONEST.
WHATEVER IS GOING THROUGH HIS
BRAIN COMES RIGHT OUT OF HIS
MOUTH AND SOMETIMES RIGHT ONTO
TWITTER.
>> THAT'S A CHARACTER TRAIT THEY
CAN SUPPORT.
>> YOU CAN'T HOLD HIM
ACCOUNTABLE FOR EVERY LITTLE
MISTAKE THAT COMES OUT OF HIS
MOUTH AND THAT IS BLUNT HONESTY
RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S WHAT I'M VOTING FOR.
>> REPORTING FROM MILWAUKEE, I'M
ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."
>> FOUR MORE YEARS!
FOUR MORE YEARS!
>> NEW STATEWIDE POLL NUMBERS
WERE RELEASED THE SAME WEEK AS
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VISIT TO THE
BADGER STATE, NUMBERS THAT SHOW
THE MIXED FEW OF THE INCUMBENT
AND HIS POLICIES.
IN TONIGHT'S CLOSER LOOK, WE GO
OVER THE RESULTS OF THE NEW
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL WITH
POLL DIRECTOR CHARLES FRANKLIN.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> GOOD TO HERE.
>> IN OUR FIRST POLL QUESTION HE
THAT WE CHOSE, APPROVAL OF
PRESIDENT
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S HANDLING OF
FOREIGN POLICY.
44% APPROVE.
53% DISAPPROVE YOU FOUND.
HOW MUCH DOES THIS DISAPPROVAL,
DO YOU SUPPOSE, TRANSFERS TO THE
VOTING BOOTH?
>> WELL, WE'LL SEE.
FOREIGN POLICY IS HIS WEAKEST
AREA OF EVALUATION, WHERE THE
ECONOMY IS HIS STRONGEST.
WE DIDN'T SEE ANY BUMP IN THE
FOREIGN POLICY VIEWS AS A RESULT
OF THE MILITARY EXCHANGE WITH
IRAN.
WE WERE COMPLETELY IN THE FIELD
AFTER THAT OCCURRED.
BUT HIS APPROVAL ON FOREIGN
POLICY WAS EXACTLY THE SAME AS
TWO MONTHSING MONTHS AGO.
IT WAS ONE POINT HIGHER THAN IT
WAS A MONTH AGO.
OVER THOSE THREE POLLS, YOU JUST
DON'T ANY CHANGE AT ALL.
FOREIGN POLICY IS ONE OF THOSE
THINGS THAT IN AN EMERGENCY CAN
BECOME A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE
FOR THE PUBLIC.
BUT FOR MOST OF THE TIME, IT'S A
SECONDARY CONSIDERATION.
>> SPEAKING OF FOREIGN POLICY,
OUR NEXT SLIDE SHOWS WHETHER OR
NOT YOUR RESPONDENTS THOUGHT
THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP DID
SOMETHING WRONG IN DEALING WITH
UKRAINE.
40% SAID THEY DID BELIEVE THAT.
37% BELIEVED THEY DID NOT.
THERE'S POLARITY IN THESE
NUMBERS THAT SEEMS TO KIND OF
MATCH THE ELECTORATE.
>> AND AGAIN THE VERY STABLE
RESULTS ON THIS.
IT'S BEENNO CARRIERRINGRINGCONNECT 38400 UNDERWAY, WE
ASKED SHOULD THE SENATE CONVICT
AND REMOVE HIM FROM OFFICE OR
SHOULD THEY EXONERATE HIM.
44%, CONVICT AND REMOVE.
49%, EXONERATE.
SO A FIVE-POINT GAP.
BEFORE THE HOUSE VOTED, WE HAD
ABOUT 40% WHO SAID HE SHOULD BE
IMPEACHED AND REMOVED.
A DIFFERENT QUESTION.
SO MAYBE SUPPORT FOR REMOVAL IS
UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT BECAUSE
WE'VE WORDED THE QUESTION
DIFFERENTLY NOW THAT THE HOUSE
HAS ALREADY VOTED, IT'S NOT
EXACTLY COMPARABLE.
>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE
DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES RUNNING
FOR PRESIDENT.
TOP FOUR DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
PICKS, JOE BIDEN, 23%.
BERNIE SANDERS, 19%.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, 15%, WARREN,
14%.
ANY SURPRISES HERE?
>> NO.
THE TOP FOUR HAVE BEEN THE TOP
FOUR FOR THE LAST FIVE MONTHS,
FOUR MONTHS, AT LEAST.
THE TOP THREE HERE ARE EXACT LIP
THE EXACTLY
THE SAME PERCENTAGES BEFORE
CHRISTMAS.
IT'S LIKE PEOPLE WENT AWAY FOR
THE HOLIDAYS AND DIDN'T REALLY
THINK ABOUT THE HOLIDAYS.
ELIZABETH WARREN IS DOWN TWO
POINTS FROM WHERE SHE WAS LAST
TIME, SO SHE WAS IN THIRD PLACE,
NOW IN FOURTH, BUT ONE POINT
DIFFERENT.
I THINK THE BIG STORY HERE IS
60% STILL SAY THEY MIGHT CHANGE
THEIR MIND OF DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
VOTERS.
THAT'S A LITTLE LESS THAN THE
65% WE HAD A MONTH AGO.
SO MAYBE PEOPLE ARE FIRMING UP
THEIR VIEWS A LITTLE BIT.
BUT THE REAL ACTION IS GOING TO
COME AFTER IOWA DOES THEIR FIRST
VOTE IN THE CAUCUS IN A LITTLE
OVER TWO WEEKS AND WHEN NEW
HAMPSHIRE VOTES.
BY THE TIME WE TALK TO PEOPLE IN
FEBRUARY, THIS RACE WILL BE A
LOT MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT ACTUAL
VOTERS ARE SAYING IN THE EARLY
EVENTS.
>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE
GENERAL ELECTION MATCH-UPS.
YOU SHOW JOE BIDEN, 49%, TRUMP
45%.
ELIZABETH WARREN, TRUMP 48.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, 44 AND TRUMP 46.
ALL THESE NUMBERS ARE WITHIN THE
MARGIN OF ERROR, YET BIDEN
CONSISTENTLY ON TOP.
>> BIDEN HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY
RUNNING AGAINST TRUMP IN
POLLING SINCE OCTOBER, REALLY
SINCE AUGUST.
BUT THE DEGREE TO WHICH HE DOES
WELL HAS VARIED.
WE'VE SEEN TRUMP A LITTLE BIT
AHEAD OF BIDEN, ABOUT FOUR
MONTHS AGO, BUT BIDEN HAS
STEADILY IMPROVED OVER THE LAST
FOUR POLLS.
BERNIE SANDERS HAS IMPROVED A
BIT.
THE OTHERS HAVE BEEN A LITTLE
BIT MORE MIXED, MOSTLY JUST
BOUNCING AROUND.
I THINK THE REAL STORY IS IT'S A
BATTLEGROUND STATE.
THESE ARE ALL INSIDE THE MARGIN
OF ERROR.
THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF
GROWTH IN SUPPORT FOR BIDEN AND
FOR SANDERS, EITHER STABILITY OR
SLIGHT SHRINKAGE FOR BUTTIGIEG
AND WARREN.
>> 51% APPROVE, 44% DISAPPROVE.
HOW DO THESE STACK UP FOR THE
GOVERNOR?
>> PRETTY DECENT.
THE 51 IS ABOUT ABOVE 50%.
THE NET APPROVAL IS PRETTY GOOD.
IF YOU WANT TO CONTRAST HIM WITH
GOVERNOR WALKER, HE WAS USUALLY
BETWEEN 48 AND 50 OR 51%.
RARELY OVER 50%, ACTUALLY.
BUT WALKER HAD A HIGHER
PERCENTAGE THAT DISAPPROVED
THROUGH MUCH OF HIS FIRST TERM.
EVERS HAS BENEFITED BY HAVING
DISAPPROVAL IN THE 30s TO LOW
40s AS WE SEE THIS TIME, A NET
PLUS 11.
>> ALL RIGHT.
CHARLES FRANKLIN, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR WORK.
>> THANK YOU.
>> NOW TO AN INSIDE LOOK AT AN
EVOLVING LEGAL CASE, THE RESULTS
OF WHICH MAY RESULT IN HUNDREDS
OF THOUSANDS OF WISCONSIN VOTERS
GETTING PURGED FROM THE STATE
REGISTRATION ROLLS.
THESE ARE VOTERS THE STATE
ELECTIONS COMMISSION BELIEVES
HAVE CHANGED ADDRESS.
THE COMMISSION IS LEGALLY
REQUIRED TO SEND A NOTICE TO
THESE VOTERS ASKING THEM TO
CONFIRM THEIR CURRENT ADDRESS.
THOSE WHO DO NOT RESPOND ARE TO
BE REMOVED FROM THE REGISTRATION
ROLLS.
THERE ARE MORE THAN 200,000 SUCH
VOTERS.
A LOT HAPPENED THIS WEEK.
AN OZAUKEE COUNTY JUDGE HELD
PEOPLE IN CONTEMPT OF COURT FOR
DIS'HE
DISOBEYING HIS RECORD.
A LOT OF PEOPLE'S VOTER
REGISTRATIONS ARE ON THE LINE.
AND A LOT TO UNPACK WITH
UW-MADISON PROFESSOR OF
POLITICAL SCIENCE DAVID CANON.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE.
>> SO IT COULD BE SAID THAT THIS
IS ALL EM BRAILD IN THE BOILED IN EMBROILED IN THE COURTS
AND CONTROVERSY, BUT IT IS ON
HOLD FOR THE MOMENT.
HOW INTERESTING IS IT TO YOU
THAT THE STATE SUPREME COURT
DECLINED TO TAKE THIS CASE AT
THIS TIME?
>> I THINK IT'S VERY
INTERESTING.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING
THEM TO GET QUICK RESOLUTION.
IT GUARANTEES THIS WILL DRAG
WELL INTO THE YEAR, MAYBE PAST
THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.
NOW THERE WILL BE A HEARING AT
THE APPEALS COURT LEVEL.
PLUS WE HAVE THE PARALLEL CASE
IN FEDERAL COURT RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT WON'T
HAVE ANY FINAL LEGAL RESOLUTION
TO THIS UNTIL AFTER THE
NOVEMBER ELECTION, WHICH INDEED
WAS THE COMMISSION'S ORIGINAL
INTENT ANYWAY, IS TO NOT REMOVE
THOSE VOTERS UNTIL AFTER THE
ELECTION.
THIS MAY BE THE WAY IT WILL PLAY
OUT.
>> IT LEAVES THESE VOTERS, THE
RECIPIENTS OF THESE LEADERS,
POTENTIALLY CONFUSED.
>> WELL, RIGHT.
ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVEN'T MOVED.
LIKE ARE THEY OKAY OR NOT?
ARE THEY GOING TO BE REMOVED
FROM THE ROLLS OR DO THEY NEED
TO REPLY TO UPDATE THEIR STATUS
WITH VOTER REGISTRATION?
>> YOU SAID THAT THIS
CIRCUMSTANCE IS RIGHT OUT OF A
BOOK CALLED "THE VOTING WARS."
HOW SO?
>> THERE'S A BOOK BY ONE OF THE
NATION'S EXPERTS ON VOTING
PROCEDURES WHO MADE THIS
ARGUMENT THAT ADMINISTRATION
ELECTIONS USED TO BE NONCON
NONCONTROVERSIAL.
BUT IN THE LAST DECADE THIS HAS
BECOME A PARTISAN BATTLEFIELD
WHERE REPUBLICANS HAVE FOCUSED
ON ELECTION INTEGRITY AND
FIGHTING VOTER FRAUD.
DEMOCRATS FOCUS ON GETTING MORE
ACCESS TO THE POLLS.
SO WHAT YOU YOU SEE REPLAYED OVER
AND OVER AGAIN IS VOTER I.D.
LAWS AND RESTRICTING ACCESS TO
EARLY VOTING TO TRY TO LIMIT
VOTING, WHEREAS DEMOCRATS ARE
TRYING TO DO THE OPPOSITE.
SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF
THOSE KINDS OF EFFORTS AIMED AT
TRYING TO EITHER PREVENT PEOPLE
FROM VOTING AS EASILY OR
ALLOWING PEOPLE TO VOTE.
AND SO ON A CONTINUUM OF THE
MOST EGREGIOUS VOTER SUPPRESSION
TO THE NOT AS HARMFUL, I WOULD
PUT THIS ON THE MORE NORMAL
POLITICS SIDE OF THINGS.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO UPDATE VOTER
ROLLS.
THE QUESTION IS ONE OF TIMING.
DO WE DO THIS RIGHT AWAY OR WAIT
UNTIL AFTER THE
NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, WHAT THE
COMMISSION WANTED TO DO.
>> ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, IF
IMPEACHMENT IS INDEED, AS YOU'VE
SAID, A POLITICAL PROCESS, HOW
DOES THE OATH OF IMPARTIALITY
TAKEN BY SENATORS SQUARE WITH
THAT TODAY?
>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
WE TALKED ABOUT JAMES MADISON'S
VIEW OF THIS.
HIS BIGGEST FEAR WAS HAVING
PARTISAN POLITICS ENTER THE
PROCESS OF IMPEACHMENT.
WE'VE DEFINITELY SEEN THAT
HAPPEN FROM DAY ONE WITH MITCH
MCCONNELL SAYING HE'S GOING TO
BE WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE
PRESIDENT.
THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE AN
IMPARTIAL JUROR IN THAT PROCESS.
BUT DEMOCRATS AS WELL HAVE
INDICATED THAT THEY'RE VERY
LIKELY TO VOTE TO REMOVE
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
AND SO IN THIS ERA OF PARTISAN
POLITICS, THE NOTION OF THESE
IMPARTIAL JURORS IS LAUGHABLE.
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THE BEST WE CAN HOPE FOR IS THEY
DO ALLOW FOR A MORE FULL HEARING
OF THE EVIDENCE.
>> WELL, SPEAKING OF THAT, IF
SENATOR MCCONNELL DOES NOT ALLOW
TESTIMONY FROM WITNESSES, IS
THAT WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS,
THE FRAMERS, KIND OF HAD IN MIND
FOR THIS PROCESS?
>> WELL, THE PROBLEM WITH THE
CONSTITUTION WHEN IT COMES TO
IMPEACHMENT IT DOESN'T GIVE
TEE DALE
DETAIL IN TERMS OF HOW THAT
TRIAL WILL BE CONDUCTED.
WE HAVE THE PRECEDENT OF THE
IMPEACHMENTS OF ANDREW JOHNSON
AND BILL CLINTON.
WE DID HAVE TESTIMONY FROM
WITNESSES AND IT WAS MORE LIKE A
FULL TRIAL WHERE YOU WOULD HEAR
EVIDENCE ON BOTH SIDES AND THE
SENATE WOULD DECIDE.
THAT IS MORE THE GOVERNING SORT
OF PRECEDENT, IS THE ACTUAL
PRACTICES RATHER THAN THE
CONSTITUTION ITSELF.
>> WE'LL SEE.
ANY TELLING HOW CHIEF JUSTICE
JOHN ROBERTS WILL SEE HIS ROLE?
BECAUSE HE THE PRESIDING
OFFICER.
>> RIGHT.
>> BUT SEE HIS ROLE WHEN IT
COMES TO POTENTIALLY BREAKING A
50-50 TIE FOR AND AGAINST THE
CALLING OF WITNESSES?
>> WHAT KINDS OF ROLE IS HE
GOING TO PLAY?
TWO PRIOR EXAMPLES OF JOHNSON
AND CLINTON, IN THE FIRST
EXAMPLE OF THE JOHNSON
IMPEACHMENT CHIEF JUSTICE CHASE
WAS VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO I DON'T
KNOW SON.
HE MADE HIS VIEWS KNOWN.
HE DID HAVE MULTIPLE RULINGS AND
BREAK TIES.
WHEREAS IN THE CLINTON EXAMPLE
CLEAVE JUSTICE REHNQUIST WAS ON
THE OPPOSITE END OF THE
SPECTRUM.
HE WAS NOT THAT ENGAGED IN
MAKING CRITICAL DECISIONS.
AFTERWARDS HE QUOTED ONE OF HIS
FAVORITE LINES WHERE HE SAID I
DID NOTHING IN PARTICULAR AND I
DID IT RATHER WELL.
SOME PEOPLE THINK ROBERTS WELL
ERR TO THAT SIDE OF CAUTION.
BUT HE MAY BE FORCED TO TAKE THE
POSITION IN THE TIE SCENARIO
THAT YOU JUST OUTLINED, WHERE
RIGHT NOW IF THE VOTE WAS HELD
TODAY ON WITNESSES, THERE'S A
CHANCES IT COULD BE, BECAUSE
THREE REPUBLICANS HAVE SAID THEY
WOULD LIKE TO SEE WITNESSES.
THAT PUTS US RIGHT AT 50.
SO THE CHIEF JUSTICE MAY HAVE TO
BREAK THAT TIE ONE ONE WAY OR THE
OTHER.
>> ALL RIGHT.
DAVID CANON, THANKS VERY MUCH.
PRIMARY ELECTION DAY IS
FEBRUARY 18 AND WE TURN NOW TO
OUR INTERVIEW SERIES WITH
CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE STATE
SUPREME COURT.
TWO WEEKS AGO, WE TALKED WITH
INCUMBENT JUSTICE DANIEL KELLY,
LAST WEEK MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL
PROFESSOR ED FALLONE.
TONIGHT WE INTRODUCE YOU TO JILL
KAROFSKY.
SHE CURRENTLY SERVES AS A DANE
COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE, THE
FORMER EXECUTIVE OF THE
WISCONSIN OFFICE OF CRIME VICTIM
SERVICES AND SHE'S A FORMER
STATE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY
GENERAL.
JILL KAROFSKY JOINS US NOW.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME
HERE.
>> WE JUST WANT TO ASK YOU WHY
VOTERS SHOULD ELECT YOU TO THE
STATE SUPREME COURT.
>> VOTERS SHOULD ELECT ME
BECAUSE I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE, I
HAVE THE VALUES AND I HAVE THE
ENERGY TO NOT ONLY WIN THIS
ELECTION, BUT TO BE ON THE
SUPREME COURT.
I'M THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE
WHO IS OR WHO HAS EVER BEEN A
TRIAL COURT JUDGE.
I PRESIDED OVER MORE THAN 1700
CASES LAST YEAR.
I SEE EVERY DAY HOW THE LAW
IMPACTS REAL PEOPLE.
I ALSO HAVE EXPERIENCES AS A
PROSECUTOR.
I KNOW HOW TO BE SMART ON CRIME.
I KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF
PROTECTING INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS OF
VICTIMS, OF WITNESSES, OF
DEFENDANTS, OF MEMBERS OF OUR
COMMUNITY.
I ALSO HAVE BEEN A VICTIM
ADVOCATE, AS YOU MENTIONED.
I WAS WISCONSIN'S FIRST VIOLENCE
AGAINST WOMEN RESOURCE
PROSECUTOR AND I HELPED VICTIMS
IN EVERY COUNTY IN THIS STATE
GET THE SERVICES AND THE HELP
THAT THEY NEEDED.
I HAVE THE DEPTH AND BREATH OF
EXPERIENCE THAT WE NEED ON THE
SUPREME COURT.
>> YOU SAY THAT CURRENTLY
JUSTICES ARE ACTING LIKE
POLITICIANS.
HOW SO?
>> AS I'VE BEEN TRAVELING AROUND
THE STATE LISTENING TO VOTERS, I
HEAR THE SAME THING.
WHAT THEY SEE ARE JUSTICES THAT
MAKE DECISIONS BEFORE ANYONE
EVER WALKS INTO THE STATE
SUPREME COURT CHAMBER.
THEY SEE JUSTICES WHO DO NOT
FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW, MORE
MORE INTERESTED IN PROTECTING
CORPORATIONS THAN IN PROTECTING
OUR AIR AND WATER FROM CORPORATE
POLLUTERS.
THEY SEE JUSTICES WHO ARE -- ALL
OF THAT FEELS LIKE CORRUPTION TO
PEOPLE, BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE IS
A JUSTICE ON THE COURT WHO MAKES
DECISIONS EVERY TIME HE HAS THE
OPPORTUNITY TO FOR CORPORATIONS,
FOR THE WEALTHY AND FOR THE
RIGHT WING SPECIAL INTERESTS
THAT WORKED HARD TO GET HIM ON
THE COURT AND IS WORKING HARD TO
KEEP HIM ON THE COURT.
>> WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A CASE
LIKE THAT?
>> IF YOU LOOK AT -- THERE WAS A
CASE IN 2016 DEALING WITH THE
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES AT THE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION, AT DPI.
AND THE COURT RULED ONE WAY IN
2016.
IN 2019 WITH DAN KELLY ON THE
COURT, THE COURT RULED 180
DEGREES DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGED ON
THE COURT -- AND THIS WAS WHAT
JUSTICE ANNUAL SHALL WALSH-BRADLEY WROTE, THE
ONLY THING THAT CHANGED WAS THE
MAKEUP OF THE COURT.
SO WHAT WE HAVE IS A COURT WHO
WANTS TO CHANGE THE LAW.
HOW ARE WE HE IN WISCONSIN
SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS
IF THREE YEARS AFTER A DECISION
THEY RULE 180 DEGREES THE OTHER
WAY?
>> DO YOU FEEL LIKE RECUSAL
RULES NEED TO BE STRICTER?
>> I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A
RECUSAL RULE.
WE DON'T HAVE A RULE.
YES.
WE NEED A RULE.
IT'S WHAT'S FAIR TO VOTERS AND
CANDIDATES IN THE STATE.
IT'S WHAT IS FAIR TO JUDGES AND
JUSTICES IN THE STATE.
JUSTICES HAD THE CHANCE TO CRAFT
A RULE WHEN KELLY WAS ON THE
COURT AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN HOLD
A HEARING TO GATHER INFORMATION
TO BE ABLE TO CRAFT A RULE.
>> YOU ARE QUOTED AS SAYING AS
WE NEED TO REFORM THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM WITH AN EYE
TOWARD SOCIAL JUSTICE?
HOW SO?
>> I DON'T THINK ANYONE WHO HAS
BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM LIKE I HAVE --
AND I'M THE ONLY ONE IN THIS
RACE WHO HAS SPENT MOST OF THEIR
CAREERS IN THE FRONT LINES OF
THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BE THERE
WITHOUT THINKING WE NEED TO
REFORM OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM.
AND I THINK THAT THE FIRST THING
WE NEED TO DO IS ADMIT THAT
THERE'S A PROBLEM.
WE DO HAVE A PROBLEM.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES
TO RACIAL DISPARITY IN OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN WISCONSIN
WITH MASS INCARCERATION.
WHAT A JUDGE WHAT I CAN DO IS TO
TAKE STEPS TO TRY TO MITIGATE
THAT PROBLEM.
AND I DO IT IN MY COURTROOM BY
MAKING SURE I'M DIVERTING PEOPLE
TO TREATMENT COURTS, OWI
TREATMENT COURT, DRUG TREATMENT
COURT, VETERANS TREATMENT COURT.
WE HAVE A PROGRAM IN DANE COUNTY
WHERE PEOPLE CAN DO COMMUNITY
SERVICE INSTEAD OF PAYING A FINE
OR GO TO JAIL AND I REFER PEOPLE
THERE EVERY OPPORTUNITY I HAVE.
I CAN'T MAKE POLICY AS A JUDGE.
I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T MAKE POLICY
AS A STATE SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE.
BUT I CAN TELL THE POLICYMAKERS,
THE LEGISLATORS, WHAT I'M SEEING
TO INFORM THEIR DECISIONS.
>> DOES THIS MAKE YOU SOFT ON
CRIME?
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYONE COULD
THINK THAT I'M SOFT ON CRIME.
WHAT I DO IN MY COURTROOM IS I
FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW EVERY
DAY.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT DECISIONS
THAT I HAVE MADE, YOU WILL SEE A
JUDGE WHO WHEN I'M SENTENCING
PEOPLE RELIES ON THE SENTENCING
FACTORS IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN, THE SEVERITY OF THE
CRIME, THE PROTECTING THE
PUBLIC, THE CHARACTER AND
REHABILITATION NEEDS OF THE
OFFENDS
OFFENDS ER.
I BALANCE THOSE AND THAT IS HOW
I COME TO A SENTENCE EVERY
SINGLE TIME.
>> JUSTICE KELLY WAS ENDORSED
THIS WEEK BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS
DAN KELLY TO BE ON THE WISCONSIN
SUPREME COURT BECAUSE IF AND
WHEN THERE IS LITIGATION IN THE
NOVEMBER ELECTION, HE WILL HAVE
DAN KELLY ON THE COURT AND WE
KNOW BASED ON HIS TRACK RECORD
OF ALL RULING FOR REPUBLICANS
AND RIGHT WING SPECIAL INTERESTS
HOW HE IS GOING TO RULE IN THAT
CASE.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE DATE OF
THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY FALLING
ON THE SAME DATE AS THE GENERAL
ELECTION FOR THE STATE OR
SUPREME COURT HELPS OR HURTS YOU
IN TERMS OF INTEREST OR TURNOUT?
>> I THINK THAT GETTING PEOPLE
TO THE POLLS NO MATTER WHAT RACE
YOU'RE IN IS HUGELY, HUGELY
IMPORTANT.
OUR JOB IN THIS RACE IS TO MAKE
SURE THAT WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE
POLLS ON APRIL 7 THAT THEY VOTE
ALL THE WAY THROUGH THAT BALLOT,
THAT THEY FOR PRESIDENT,
THAT THEY VOTE FOR SUPREME
COURT, THAT THEY VOTE FOR ALL
THEIR LOCAL ELECTIONS AND COURT
OF APPEALS IF THAT'S ON THE
BALLOT FOR THEM AS WELL.
THAT'S OUR JOB IN THIS ELECTION,
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET PEOPLE
TO THE POLLS AND THAT THEY VOTE
FOR JILL KAROFSKY FOR SUPREME
COURT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
JUDGE KAROFSKY, THANKS VERY
MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> NOW FOR AN UPDATE ON FISH AND
WATER CONTAMINATION IN CONTAIN
COUNTY.
THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL
RESOURCES AND HEALTH SERVICES
ARE ISSUING AN ADVISORY IN TWO
MADISON WATERWAYS.
IT WARNS ANGLERS ABOUT RISING
PFAS LEVELS.
THEY RECOMMEND LIMITING CARP,
BASS, PIKE, WALL LIE AND WALLY WALLEYE TO NOT MORE
THAN ONCE A MONTH.
HEALTH RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH
PFAS INCREASE WITH THE AMOUNT OF
FISH CONSUMED.
THE DNR AND SERVICES ARE
WORKING TO DEVELOP PFAS
STANDARDS FOR GROUNDWATER,
DRINKING WATER AND SURFACE WATER
STATEWIDE.
FINALLY TONIGHT, A LOOK AHEAD TO
NEXT WEEK.
ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, TUNE IN FOR
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS' STATE OF
THE STATE ADDRESS.
I'LL CO-ANCHOR WITH SHAWN
JOHNSON STARTING AT 7:00 P.M.
LIVE FROM THE STATE CAPITOL NEXT
WEDNESDAY NIGHT.
THAT'S ALL FOR TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FOR MORE "HERE AND NOW" 2020
ELECTION COVERAGE GO TO
pbs.org AND CLICK ON NEWS.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.