CONTROVERSY OVER VOTING ROLLS.
NEARLY A QUARTER MILLION
WISCONSIN VOTERS THIS FALL GOT
LETTERS ASKING WHETHER THEY HAD
MOVED UNDER PROVISIONS OF THE
NATIONAL ELECTION REGISTRATION
INFORMATION CENTER, OR ERIC.
IF THOSE VOTERS DON'T RESPOND,
THEY GET REMOVED FROM THE VOTING
ROLLS.
THE STATE ELECTIONS COMMISSION
PLANS TO PURGE THE UNRESPONSIVE
VOTERS AFTER APRIL, 2021.
BUT A LAWSUIT FILED LAST MONTH
SEEKS TO REMOVE THE VOTERS 30
DAYS AFTER RECEIPT OF THE
MAILING.
IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS, THE
COMMISSION IS ASKING THE STATE
LEGISLATURE TO ESTABLISH
SPECIFIC PROCEDURES OR GRANT
ELECTION OFFICIAL RULE-MAKING
AUTHORITY TO DECIDE.
THESE LEGAL QUESTIONS AROUND
VOTER ELIGIBILITY COME LESS THAN
A YEAR FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION THAT HAS WISCONSIN
PEGGED AS THE MOST IMPORTANT
ELECTORATE IN THE NATION.
THE CHAIR OF THE WISCONSIN
ELECTIONS COMMISSION IS DEAN
KNUDSON AND HE JOINS US NOW.
>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> SO, AGAIN, THE ELECTIONS
COMMISSION WOULD MAINTAIN THE
VOTERS UNTIL AFTER THE 2021
ELECTION.
WHY SO LONG?
>> WELL, THE 2015 LAW THAT MADE
WISCONSIN A MEMBER OF ERIC
PROVIDED NO SPECIFIC DIRECTION
OR AUTHORITY TO THE COMMISSION
FOR HOW WE WOULD HANDLE THESE
VOTERS THAT ARE IDENTIFIED AS
POSSIBLY MOVED.
THE MOVERS' LIST HAS BEEN NOW
HANDLED BY ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY
SET BY THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION.
WE'VE DECIDED THAT THIS YEAR WE
SENT THESE OVER 200,000
POSTCARDS.
IF ANYONE RECEIVED ONE OF THOSE,
THEY SHOULD GO TO MYVOTEWI GOFF
AND REVIEW AND CORRECT THEIR
REGISTRATION AS NEEDED.
BUT WITHOUT ANY STATUTORY
DIRECTION OR AUTHORITY, WE'VE
COME UP WITH A SYSTEM WHERE
AFTER THAT MAILING IS RECEIVED,
THESE VOTERS WILL STILL BE ABLE
TO COME TO THE POLLS, BUT WHEN
THEY ARRIVE TO VOTE, THEIR SPOT
ON THE POLL LIST WILL BE
DEMARCATED THAT SAYS THEY'RE ON
THAT MOVERS' LIST.
THEY'LL BE ASKED DID YOU AND
TOLD THAT BY SIGNING THAT POLL
LIST THAT THEY ARE AFFIRMING
THAT THEY HAVE NOT MOVED AND
THEY STILL LIVE AT THAT ADDRESS.
WE FEEL THIS COMPLIES WITH ALL
STATE LAWS.
VERY CONFIDENT IN THAT.
AND I THINK IT WILL PROVIDE
UNIFORMITY ACROSS THE STATE,
WHICH IS SOMETHING WE DIDN'T
HAVE IN 2017 WHEN SOME LOCAL
OFFICIALS USED THEIR LOCAL
CONTROL AND PREROGATIVE TO WANT
TO REACTIVATE THE VOTERS THAT
HAD BEEN INACTIVATED ON THE
MOVERS' LIST.
>> MEANWHILE, THIS LAWSUIT
AGAINST THE COMMISSION WOULD
DEACTIVATE SUCH VOTERS AFTER 30
DAYS.
IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH
THAT, IN YOUR MIND?
>> WELL, I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT
THAT THE LAWSUIT -- THAT -- THAT THE
COMMISSION HAS FOLLOWED THE LAW.
THE WILL LAWSUIT CLAIMS THAT THE
COMMISSION HAS THE AUTHORITY AND
THE MANDATE TO INACTIVATE, BUT
WE DON'T FIND EITHER OF THOSE IN
THE STATUTES.
FOR FOUR-YEAR VOTER MAINTENANCE,
SECTIONS ONE AND TWO OF THE LAW
YOU REFERENCED DEAL WITH THAT
AND SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT THERE
WILL BE A MAILING AFTER 30 DAYS,
THEY'RE INACTIVATED.
SECTION THREE DOESN'T MENTION
THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION AT ALL.
IT ONLY GIVES THAT AUTHORITY TO
THE LOCAL CLERKS TO DO IN
ACTIVATION.
SO BECAUSE WE TRIED TO DO IT
THAT WAY IN 2017, IT WOULDN'T
HOLD UP.
WE NEED SOMETHING THAT'S
UNIFORM.
AND WE REALLY NEED GUIDANCE FROM
THE LEGISLATURE.
>> WELL, MEANWHILE, THE GROUP
THAT'S FILED THE LAWSUIT SAYS
THAT THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION IS
PUTTING WISCONSIN'S ELECTION
INTEGRITY AT RISK.
IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING LIKELY TO
LEAD TO FRAUDULENT VOTING?
>> SO EVERYONE THAT'S ON THAT
LIST IS A REGISTERED VOTER.
WHEN THEY ARRIVE AT THE POLL,
THEY WON'T VOTE UNLESS HE THEY
AFFIRM AND SWEAR BY SIGNING THAT
POLL LIST THAT THEY STILL LIVE
AT THAT ADDRESS WHERE THEY'RE
REGISTERED.
IN MOST CASES, THEY ACTUALLY DID
MOVE.
AND IN 2017, WE FOUND THAT THE
FALSE POSITIVE MATCH RATE RAN
AROUND 6% TO 7%.
THIS TIME, WE EXPECT MAYBE IT
WILL BE DOWN TO 3% OR SOMETHING
IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
TIME WILL TELL.
SO FAR, SINCE THE MAILING WENT
OUT, ABOUT A HALF A PERCENT HAVE
GONE IN AND SAID, HEY, WE DO
ACTUALLY STILL LIVE HERE.
WE WERE A FALSE POSITIVE MATCH
ON THE ERIC LIST MATCH.
THIS IS WHY IT WOULD BE SO
HELPFUL TO HAVE SPECIFIC
STATUTORY GUIDELINES AND
AUTHORITY, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE.
THIS ISN'T THE ONLY AREA,
FREDERICA.
THE 2015 LAW ALSO DIDN'T DEAL
WITH ANOTHER PART OF ERIC, WHICH
DEALS WITH WHEN ERIC FINDS THAT
A VOTER MAY HAVE VOTED IN TWO
DIFFERENT STATES IN THE SAME
ELECTION, THE 2015 LAW WAS
COMPLETELY SILENT ON THAT AS
WELL.
THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION HAS
DECIDED THAT WHEN WE GET
EVIDENCE THAT THAT MAY HAVE
HAPPENED, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK
THROUGH THAT EVIDENCE AND MAKE
CRIMINAL REFERRALS WHEN THE
EVIDENCE SUPPORTS THAT.
WE WILL NOT TOLERATE VOTER FRAUD
IN WISCONSIN.
>> HAVEN'T YOU HEARD FROM THE
LEGISLATURE ON THIS AND THEY'VE
SAID, YEAH, GO AHEAD AND FOLLOW
THE STATUTE THAT THE LAWSUIT
CITES?
>> WELL, I RECEIVED A LETTER
YESTERDAY FROM THE TWO ORIGINAL
CO-AUTHORS OF THE 2015 BILL, TWO
STATE SENATORS, SAYING THAT,
WELL, YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THE
SECTION OF THE LAW THAT DEALS
WITH THE FOUR-YEAR LIST
MAINTENANCE.
THIS THIS ISN'T FOUR-YEAR LIST
MAINTENANCE.
AND SO WE REALLY DO NEED TO HAVE
THE LEGISLATURE GET INVOLVED.
IN ABSENCE OF THAT, I WELCOME
PERSONALLY -- NOT SPEAKING FOR
THE COMMISSION, BUT PERSONALLY
AS ONE MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION,
I WELCOME THE LAWSUIT IF IT WILL
HELP BRING CLARITY.
BUT I SUSPECT IT WILL NOT
BECAUSE I THINK THE JUDGE WILL
LOOK AT THE LETTER OF THE LAW
AND SAY YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY
RIGHT NOW TO DO THAT IN
ACTIVATION.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
THERE IS A COURT HEARING ON THIS
NEXT FRIDAY.
DEAN KNUDSON, THANKS VERY MUCH
FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> AS MENTIONED, A LAWSUIT FILED
AGAINST THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION
LAST MONTH SEEKS TO REMOVE
UNRESPONSIVE VOTERS 30 DAYS
AFTER RECEIPT OF THE MAILING.
THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED BY THE
WISCONSIN INSTITUTE FOR LAW AND
LIBERTY.
RICK ESENBERG IS THE PRESIDENT
AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE
INSTITUTE.
HE JAINS JOINS US FROM UK MA.
WHY DID YOU FILE A LAWSUIT
AGAINST VOTERS WHO DON'T ACT
AFTER 30 DAYS?
>> THIS IS REALLY ABOUT
FOLLOWING THE LAW.
THE LEGISLATURE HAS DECIDED THAT
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR VOTER
ROLLS TO BE ACCURATE, BOTH FOR
PURPOSES OF EFFICIENT ELECTION
ADMINISTRATION FOR THE
PREVENTION AND THE POSSIBILITY
OF FRAUD.
SO IT HAS TOLD THE WISCONSIN
ELECTION COMMISSION THAT IF IT
HAS RELIABLE EVIDENCE THAT
SOMEONE HAS MOVED FROM THE
ADDRESS AT WHICH THEY'RE
REGISTERED, THAT THERE'S A
PROCEDURE TO BE FOLLOWED.
THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE TO BE SENT
A POSTCARD.
IF THEY DON'T RETURN THE
POSTCARD WITHIN 30 DAYS, THEIR
REGISTRATION IS DEACTIVATED.
THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T
VOTE, BECAUSE HERE IN WISCONSIN,
OF COURSE, YOU HAVE SAME-DAY
REGISTRATION.
AND SO IF SOMEONE GOES TO THE
POLLS TO VOTE AND THEY'RE NOT
REGISTERED, THEY CAN REREGISTER
AND CAST THEIR BALLOT.
>> SO THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION,
AS WE KNOW, WANTED TO GIVE THESE
PEOPLE UNTIL APRIL, 2021.
WHAT'S THE DANGER OF KEEPING
VOTERS ACTIVE EVEN IF THEY HAVE
TO REREGISTER AT THE POLLS?
>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE TWO
THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, THE DETERMINATION
OF HOW YOU SHOULD GO ABOUT
MAINTAINING THE ROLLS AND WHEN
YOU SHOULD DEACTIVATE SOMEONE'S
REGISTRATION IS A DETERMINATION
FOR THE LEGISLATURE.
AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED A
LAW WHICH SPECIFIES THIS PERIOD
OF REMOVAL FOR FAILURE TO RETURN
A POSTCARD.
IF WE DON'T LIKE THAT,
ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCIES LIKE THE
ELECTION COMMISSION CAN'T SIMPLY
IGNORE THAT.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE
LEGISLATURE AND ASK THEM TO
CHANGE THE LAW.
SO THE FIRST CONCERN IS RULE OF
LAW.
NOW, I THINK THE REASON THAT THE
LEGISLATURE HAS DONE THIS IS
THAT OVER TIME -- AND THIS IS
NOT A PROBLEM ONLY IN WISCONSIN,
BUT NATIONALLY -- OUR VOTER
ROLLS HAVE BECOME QUITE
INACCURATE.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ESTIMATES
THAT ONE IN EIGHT REGISTRATIONS
ARE OUTDATED.
THIS CREATES PROBLEMS WITH
ELECTION ADMINISTRATION, AND IT
ALSO CREATES THE POTENTIAL FOR
FRAUD, IN THE SENSE THAT THERE
ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTED
AS BEING REGISTERED AT A
PARTICULAR ADDRESS WHO CAN
REQUEST ABSENTEE BALLOTS OR
ABSENTEE BALLOTS CAN BE
REQUESTED IN THEIR NAME.
SO OUR LEGISLATURE HAS
DETERMINED THAT WE OUGHT TO DO
WHAT WE CAN, TAKE REASONABLE
STEPS TO ENSURE THAT THE ROLLS
ARE ACCURATE.
>> LET ME TALK ABOUT THAT
STATUTE FOR A MINUTE, WHICH YOU
CITE, WHICH SAYS IF THE ELECTOR
NO LONGER RESIDES IN THE
MUNICIPALITY OR FAILS TO APPLY
FOR THE CONTINUATION OF
REGISTRATION WITHIN 30 DAYS OF
THE DATE THE NOTICE IS MAILED,
THE CLERK OR BOARD OF ELECTION
COMMISSIONERS SHALL CHANGE THE
REGISTRATION FROM ELIGIBLE TO
INELIGIBLE STATUS.
BUT THE COMMISSION TELLS ME THAT
THAT STATUTE APPLIES TO
MUNICIPAL CLERKS AND DOESN'T
DEFINE RELIABLE INFORMATION
ABOUT ADDRESS CHANGES.
WHAT ABOUT THAT?
>> THERE ARE TWO ISSUES.
ONE IS THE APPLICABILITY OF THE
STATUTE.
NOW, THE LEGISLATURE ENACTED AND
DEPUTIZED THE WISCONSIN ELECTION
COMMISSION TO MAINTAIN A
STATEWIDE REGISTRATION LIST A
NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.
AND IT IS NONSENSICAL TO SUPPOSE
THAT THE LEGISLATURE, HAVING
GIVEN THIS RESPONSIBILITY TO THE
WISCONSIN ELECTION COMMISSION,
DOESN'T INTEND THAT THE ELECTION
COMMISSION COMPLY WITH ALL THE
VARIOUS OBLIGATIONS THAT ARE
IMPOSED ON ELECTION OFFICIALS IN
MAINTAINING THAT ROLL.
SO ESSENTIALLY FOR THE ELECTION
COMMISSION TO SAY THAT THE LAW
DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM MEANS THAT
THEY HAVE SOMEHOW EXES EMPTIED
THEMSELVES FROM EVERYTHING THAT
THE STATUTE SAYS ABOUT HOW THOSE
ROLLS ARE TO BE MAINTAINED.
>> LET'S JUST CUT IN HERE A
MINUTE AND ASK WHAT YOU THINK OF
HAVING THE LEGISLATURE WEIGH IN
ON THIS NOW AND OFFER GUIDANCE
ON SPECIFIC PROCEDURES AS THE
ELECTIONS COMMISSION IS NOW
SEEKING IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF
THIS.
>> RIGHT.
IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS THE
ELECTION COMMISSION HAS INFORMED
THE COURT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
ASK THE LEGISLATURE FOR
GUIDANCE.
THE LEGISLATURE PROVIDED THAT
GUIDANCE AND TOLD THEM THE LAW
COULDN'T BE CLEARER, THAT THEY
OUGHT TO FOLLOW THE LAW AS IT'S
BEEN WRITTEN UNTIL SUCH TIME AS
THE LEGISLATURE CHANGED IT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S WRONG TO
IMPOSE SOME OBLIGATION ON VOTERS
TO RESPOND TO A NOTIFICATION
LIKE THIS.
AND, AGAIN, IF THEY DON'T
RESPOND IN THE NOTIFICATION,
BECAUSE WE HAVE SAME-DAY
REGISTRATION, THEY WON'T BE
DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE.
THEY'LL SIMPLY HAVE TO
REREGISTER AT THE POLLS.
BECAUSE WE HAVE PHOTO I.D. EVERY
VOTER WILL HAVE THE
DOCUMENTATION TO