>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON HERE AND NOW.
U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON ON THE
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.
THEN, AS THE ANNUAL GUN DEER
SEASON GETS UNDERWAY, A CLOSER
LOOK AT THE STATUS OF
CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR NOVEMBER 22.
>> WISCONSIN U.S. SENATOR RON
JOHNSON WAS A MAIN PLAYER IN THE
EVENTS NOW EMBROILING THE NATION
IN IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS
AGAINST PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.
SENATOR JOHNSON IS CURRENTLY THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE EUROPEAN
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE SENATE
FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE AND
AS SUCH, HAS WORKED ON UKRAINE
ISSUES CLOSELY.
HE RELEASED A 10-PAGE LETTER
THIS WEEK AT THE REQUEST OF
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE
REPUBLICANS, DETAILING HIS
TIMELINE AND VERSION OF EVENTS
AROUND THE WITHHOLDING OF NEARLY
$400 MILLION IN U.S. MILITARY
AID TO UKRAINE.
WE SAT DOWN WITH THE SENATOR FOR
A LONG FORM INTERVIEW ON THE
MATTER.
YOU CAN FIND THE FULL INTERVIEW
ON OUR WEBSITE AT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG.
TONIGHT, AN E ERPT OF EXCERPT OF OUR
DISCUSSION WITH SENATOR JOHNSON.
GIVEN YOUR POSITION AND STRONG
SUPPORT OF UKRAINE, WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION TO THESE IMPEACHMENT
HEARINGS WITH THE THREE
WITNESSES, RUNNING THE RUDY
GIULIANI DIPLOMACY OF THIS FOR
THAT, AT THE BEHEST OF THE
PRESIDENT WITH THE MILITARY AID
IN THE BALANCE, WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL I THINK
IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE THIS HAS
BEEN EXPOSED AND MADE SO PUBLIC.
WE OFTEN REFER TO THE
LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AS SAUSAGE
MAKING.
THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR SOME
FOREIGN POLICY AS WELL, AND WE
TRUTHFULLY WERE WELL UNDERWAY IN
THAT SAUSAGE-MAKING PROCESS,
BOTH WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION,
BUT ALSO BETWEEN THE BRANCHES,
AND THIS DID NOT HAVE TO BE
DRAWN INTO SO PUBLICLY EXPOSED,
IT DIDN'T HAVE TO RESULT IN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, WHICH IS
SOME PRETTY SERIOUS BUSINESS.
SO FROM MY STANDPOINT, MY
REACTION IS IT'S VERY
UNFORTUNATE THAT WE'VE HAD TO GO
THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
>> YOU DON'T FEEL AS THOUGH THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE TO KNOW
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH U.S. AID
TO UKRAINE AND THE ALLEGED
DIRECTION FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND HIS LAWYER FOR THAT COUNTRY
TO INVESTIGATE A POLITICAL
OPPONENT?
>> IT'S RESULTED IN WHAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP THOUGHT WAS
PRETTY IMPORTANT, WAS TO RELEASE
THE TRANSCRIPT OF HIS
CONVERSATION WITH A PRESIDENT OF
ANOTHER COUNTRY.
THAT SETS A VERY DANGEROUS
PRECEDENT.
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT
FOR FUTURE PRESIDENTS TO HAVE
CANDID CONVERSATIONS WITH WORLD
LEADERS.
WE'VE WEAK ENDED EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE.
IT CERTAINLY HASN'T HELPED OUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH UKRAINE.
SO THIS HAS JUST BEEN AN
UNFORTUNATE SITUATION ALL THE
WAY AROUND.
>> LET ME JUST UP PACK THIS A
LITTLE BIT.
TESTIMONY FROM ONE OF THE THREE
AMIGOS, THE U.S. AMBASSADOR TO
THE E.U. SAID THAT EVERYONE WAS
IN THE LOOP ON THE PRESIDENT
TRUMP DIRECTIVE TO GET UKRAINE
TO INVESTIGATE THE 2016
CAMPAIGN, AND BURISMA OR JOE
BIDEN'S SON.
WERE YOU IN THE LOOP ON ALL OF
THAT?
>> WHAT I WAS IN THE LOOP IN IS
VERY -- DESCRIBED IN GREAT
DETAIL IN MY 10-PAGE RESPONSE TO
THE HOUSE REQUEST.
AND SO I'D LET MY LETTER STAND
ON ITS OWN.
CERTAINLY I UNDERSTOOD THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS HIGHLY
FRUSTRATED BY THE FACT THAT
THERE WERE RUMORS IN UKRAINE
INVOLVED -- THAT UKRAINE WAS
INVOLVED IN THE 2016 ELECTION.
BY THE WAY, THERE'S PLENTY OF
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS WHEN IT
RELATES TO THAT AS WELL.
>> TOP SECURITY OFFICIALS AND
DIPLOMATS SAY THAT UKRAINE 2016
ELECTION MEDDLING WAS RUSSIAN
DISINFORMATION, A FICTIONAL
NARRATIVE, ADVANCING RUSSIAN
INTERESTS.
WHAT ABOUT THAT?
>> THERE'S PLENTY OF EVIDENCE
THAT THERE WAS INVOLVEMENT BY
DEMOCRATS IN THE HILLARY CLINTON
CAMPAIGN AND THE DNC, AND AGAIN
THE PRESS BY AND LARGE IS NOT
PARTICULAR LIQUEUR JUST ABOUT
PARTICULARLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT,
WHICH ALSO DRIVES CONSERVATIVES
LIKE ME AND PRESIDENT TRUMP
NUTS, SO THAT'S WHY I'M
SYMPATHETIC WITH PRESIDENT
TRUMP, HE SAID HE'D LIKE TO KNOW
WHAT HAPPENED WITH UKRAINE.
SO WOULD I.
>> BACK TO PRESIDENT TRUMP MORE
SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU THINK IT'S
PROPER FOR A PRESIDENT TO ASK A
FOREIGN LEADER TO INVESTIGATE A
POLITICAL OWE OPPONENT?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT WAS
HAPPENING.
I'VE NEVER HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP
SAY, HEY, DIG UP SOME DIRT ON MY
POLITICAL OPPONENT.
WHAT I HEARD HIM SAY IS, YOU
KNOW, I THINK SOMETHING HAPPENED
IN 2016.
AND SO AGAIN, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT
AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE, LET'S
PUT IT THAT WAY.
>> IMPEACHMENT TESTIMONY SAYS
THERE WAS A QUID PRO QUO, U.S.
AID IN RETURN FOR MEETINGS AND
INVESTIGATIONS.
YOU SAID YOU WINCED WHEN YOU
HEARD OF CONDITIONS, BUT THAT
THE PRESIDENT DENIED IT.
WHY DID YOU WINCE?
>> WELL, AGAIN, I WAS CALLING UP
GORDON ZONDLAND WHO PRETTY
WELL -- THIS IS WHAT HE PRESUMED
OR HEARD FROM PEOPLE LIKE RUDY
GIULIANI.
SO NO, I WINCED BECAUSE AGAIN, I
WAS SUPPORTIVE OF PROVIDING THAT
MILITARY SUPPORT BECAUSE UKRAINE
IS GROUND ZERO IN OUR
GEOPOLITICAL COMPETITION TO
RUSSIA.
THIS IS THE TIME TO SHOW
STRENGTH AND RESOLVE AND I WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT THAT SIGNAL.
SO THAT'S WHY I CALLED UP
PRESIDENT TRUMP THE DAY AFTER --
OR HE CALLED ME BACK UPON MY
QUESTION AFTER OF TALKED TO
GORDON ZONDLAND, TO LET
PRESIDENT EXCELLENCE KE -- LET
THAT FUNDING TO BE RELEASED.
HE GAVE A VERY CONSISTENT
REASON, CORRUPTION AND IN
INADEQUATE SUPPORT FOR MILITARY
ASSISTANCE.
>> SPEAKING OF THAT, DEMOCRATS,
SPECIFICALLY THE CHAIR OF THIS
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE, SAYS THAT
THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS WAS ABOUT.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT ADAM
SCHIFF SAID THIS WEEK.
>> MY COLLEAGUES HAVE TRIED TO
MAKE THE ARGUMENT HERE TODAY AND
WE'VE HEARD IT BEFORE THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS JUST INTERESTED IN
FIGHTING CORRUPTION.
THAT'S OUR GOAL, FIGHTING
CORRUPTION IN UKRAINE, THIS
TERRIBLY CORRUPT COUNTRY.
THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, WITH
THAT IS THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF
THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO FIGHT
CORRUPTION.
THE EVIDENCE ALL POINTS IN THE
OTHER DIRECTION, THE EVIDENCE
POINTS TO THE DIRECTION OF THE
PRESIDENT INVITING UKRAINE TO
ENGAGE IN THE CORRUPT ACT OF
INVESTIGATING A U.S. POLITICAL
OPPONENT.
>> WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT,
SENATOR?
>> I THINK CONGRESSMAN SCHIFF IS
COMPLETELY NOT CREDIBLE.
FROM HIS CHAIRMANSHIP CHAIR, HE
READ A FALSE NARRATIVE OF THE
TRANSCRIPT.
KNOWING THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS
WOULD ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT'S
WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID.
HE DIDN'T.
HE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO
RUDY GIULIANI RUNNING, QUOTE, A
SHADOW FOREIGN POLICY AND
PUSHING THE UKRANIAN GOVERNMENT
TO PURSUE POLITICAL
INVESTIGATIONS OF THE BIDEN
FAMILY THAT WOULD BENEFIT
PRESIDENT TRUMP, UNQUOTE, AS
STATED BY DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
CHRIS MURPHY?
>> TO MY KNOWLEDGE -- RUDY
GIULIANI, DEURNLG THE 2016 -- I REALLY DON'T
KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING, OBVIOUSLY
I READ THE NEWS REPORTS AS WELL.
I CAN'T AS A BLANKET STATEMENT
SAY HIS INVOLVEMENT PROBABLY
HASN'T BEEN PARTICULARLY
HELPFUL.
>> YOU SAIR YOU BELIEVE THE
IMPEEVE CH INQUIRY IS AN EFFORT
TO SABOTAGE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION AND LUMP
DECORATED NATIONAL SECURITY
MEMBERS AS PART OF THAT EFFORT.
SHOULD WE BELIEVE THAT THESE TOP
LEVEL SECURITY ADVISORS AND
DIPLOMATES THAT WE'RE HEARING IN
THESE HEARINGS ARE LYING UNDER
OATH?
>> I VALUE THEIR SERVICE.
BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE, THERE IS A
BIAS, AND THERE IS SOMETHING
GOING WRONG WITHIN GOVERNMENT.
THERE'S BEEN A CONCERTED I THINK
PROBABLY COORDINATED EFFORT
SINCE THE DAY AFTER PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S ELECTION TO SABOTAGE HIS
ADMINISTRATION.
LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE
ATTORNEY THAT THE WHISTLEBLOWER
HIRED, MARK ZADE, TWO TWEETED 10
DAYS AFTER THE INAUGURATION WITH
WORDS LIKE COUP, REBELLION AND
IMPEACHMENT WILL FOLLOW
ULTIMATELY.
I THINK THAT KIND OF GIVES YOU
SOME SENSE THAT MAYBE THERE'S
SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON HERE,
MAYBE THERE IS A CONCERTED
EFFORT TO SABOTAGE THIS
ADMINISTRATION THAT STARTED VERY
EARLY IN THIS PRESIDENT'S
ADMINISTRATION.
HOPEFULLY WHAT THIS WILL DO LONG
TERM, IT'S BEEN DONE A LOT OF
DAMAGE TO OUR DEMOCRACY, TO
FUTURE PRESIDENTS.
REALLY, NOT THAT PARTICULARLY
HELPFUL FOR UKRAINE, LET'S TRY
AND TURN THAT SITUATION AROUND
AND LET'S TRY AND GAIN SOME
OPPORTUNITY OUT OF THIS AND
EXPRESS AMERICA'S STRONG SUPPORT
FOR THE COURAGEOUS PEOPLE OF THE
UKRAINE.
>> SENATOR RON JOHNSON, WE LEAVE
IT THERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
>> HAVE A GOOD DAY.
>> AGAIN, THE FULL INTERVIEW CAN
BE FOUND ON PBSWISCONSIN.ORG.
MEANWHILE, IN WISCONSIN,
DECLINING NUMBERS OF PEOPLE
THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD BE
IMPEACHED.
THE LATEST MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL
POLL CONDUCTED IN THE MIDST OF
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS SHOWS 40%
OF REGISTERED VOTERS THINK TRUMP
SHOULD BE IMPEACHED.
THAT'S DOWN FROM 44% LAST MONTH.
53% DO NOT THINK SO, AND 6% SAY
THEY DON'T KNOW.
THOSE NUMBERS WERE 51 AND 4%
LAST MONTH.
IN ADDITION, PRESIDENT TRUMP
HOLDS SMALL LEADS OVER EACH OF
THE TOP FOUR DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
CANDIDATES.
THREE OF THE DEMOCRATS HELD
SMALL LEADS IN THE PREVIOUS
POLL.
NOW TO A CLOSER LOOK AT
MARQUETTE POLL NUMBERS ON THE
SPREAD OF CWD IN THE STATE.
TOMORROW MARKS THE KICKOFF OF
THE GUN DEER SEASON, THE 18TH
OPENING DAY SINCE THE DISCOVERY
OF CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE IN
WISCONSIN'S HERD.
THE MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL
SHOWS OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
HEARD ABOUT CWD, 64% FEEL IT
REPRESENTS A THREAT TO THE
FUTURE OF DEER HUNTING IN
WISCONSIN.
OVER THE NEXT WEEK, THOUSANDS OF
HUNTERS WILL HARVEST A DEER, BUT
MOST WILL NOT GET IT TESTED FOR
CWD.
IN THE FIRST OF TWO REPORTS ON
THE TOPIC TONIGHT, "HERE AND
NOW" REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ SPOKE
WITH FOUR HUNTERS TO FIND OUT
THE DIFFERING REASONS WHY SOME
GET THEIR DEER TESTED AND THE
OVERWHELMING REASON WHY MOST DO
NOT.
>> IS THERE -- THESE ARE LOIN
CHOPS FROM NOLAN'S CROSSBOW
BUCK, THE 10-YEAR-OLD SHOT THAT.
>> EARLIER THIS FALL, STEVE
RAYNIER'S SON NOLAN SHOT A BUCK
WITH A CROSSBOW.
STEVE WAS IN THE STAND WITH HIM
AND COACHED HIM THROUGH THE
SHOT.
>> KEEP HIM CALM, WITH A CALM
VOICE, WHICH IS EASIER FOR ME TO
DO FOR HIM THAN IT IS FOR MYSELF
WHEN I'M SHOOTING THE DEER.
>> JUST SAW IT COME OUT OF THE
BRUSH OVER THERE.
>> NOLAN IS 10 YEARS OLD.
THE SAME AGE STEVE WAS WHEN HE
GOT INTERESTED IN HUNTING.
>> NICE JOB, NOLAN!
>> WHEN I WAS 10, I WENT TO THE
LIBRARY, I HAD TO PICK A BOOK
AND I JUST RANDOMLY GRABBED A
BOOK ON HUNTING.
AND THAT IS WHAT SPARKED IT IN
ME, I GUESS.
>> WHEN HE WAS YOUNG, HUNTING
WAS ABOUT BEING WITH THE GROUP.
>> YOU'D GET TOGETHER IN A
CAMPER AND PLAY CARDS AND TELL
JOKES AND SHARE FOOD AND ALL
THAT STUFF.
AT SOME POINT, IT BECAME ABOUT
THE FOOD, AND TODAY IT'S A
LITTLE BIT OF FOOD AND IT'S A
LITTLE BIT OF JUST ENJOYING THE
HUNT.
>> BUT TODAY, VENISON COMES WITH
A SIDE DISH OF CONCERN ABOUT
CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, OR CWD.
STEVE SAYS THE FIRST THING THEY
DID WITH NOLAN'S BUCK IS TO GET
IT TESTED.
>> THAT DEER DID COME BACK
NEGATIVE.
>> IF IT HAD COME BACK POSITIVE
FOR CWD, THIS MEAL NEVER WOULD
HAVE HAPPENED.
>> I WOULD DEFINITELY THROW THE
DEER AWAY.
>> CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE IS A
FATAL NEUROLOGICAL DISEASE FOUND
IN DEER, MOOSE AND ELK.
THERE IS A HUMAN VERSION OF CWD
CALLED CREUTZFELDT-JAKOB'S
DISEASE, BUT IT'S RARE, AND
THERE'S NO EVIDENCE CWD CAN
INFECT HUMANS.
BUT THE PREONS THAT CAUSE CWD
CAN BE FOUND IN VENISON, SO
HUNTERS ARE RECOMMENDED TO TOSS
INFECTED MEAT.
>> IT'S A LITTLE FRUSTRATING
THAT I SPENT THE MONEY TO GET IT
PROCESSED AND THEN I HAVE TO LET
IT SIT BEFORE I'M ALLOWED TO EAT
IT.
>> TOM BERG GETS EVERY DEER HE
SHOOTS TESTED FOR CWD.
>> I'M LOOKING AT POSSIBLY
THROWING AWAY $100 WORTH OF MEAT
IF IT WERE TO COME BACK
POSITIVE, BUT THAT'S EXACTLY
WHAT I WOULD DO.
>> TOM HAS HUNTED BIG GAME
AROUND THE WORLD.
>> THE SOUTHERN IMPALA WAS TAKEN
IN 2009.
>> BUT TODAY, HE DOES MOST OF
HIS HUNTING ON A SMALL PIECE OF
PROPERTY IN WAUPACA COUNTY.
>> THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE
SPOTS.
BECAUSE IT'S LIKE JUST SITTING
HERE AND LISTEN TO THE BIRDS,
WATCH THE DEER.
>> CWD HAS BEEN FOUND IN DEER ON
A PRIVATE HUNTING RANCH JUST A
FEW MILES FROM HIS GROUND BLIND.
>> WELL, IT HASN'T CHANGED HOW I
FEEL ABOUT HUNTING SO MUCH,
OTHER THAN EXTREME FRUSTRATION
WITH THE MANAGEMENT OF THE
SITUATION.
>> AFTER CWD WAS FOUND IN
WISCONSIN IN 2002, THE STATE AND
THE DNR WERE VERY AGGRESSIVE IN
TRYING TO ERADICATE OR AT LEAST
LIMIT THE SPREAD OF THE DISEASE.
BUT THE STRATEGIES WERE
UNPOPULAR WITH MANY HUNTERS, AND
THEY WERE ROLLED BACK BY
GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER.
>> CHANGED HOW I VOTED, BECAUSE
I FELT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION
WAS IN SOME WAYS ACTIVELY
WORKING AGAINST US ON THIS.
>> TOM SAYS EVEN IF IT LOOKS
LIKE THE STATE DOESN'T CARE,
HUNTERS SHOULD.
>> IT'S NOT ALL ADMINISTRATION'S
FAULT, IT'S NOT ALL THE DNR'S
FAULT, IT'S ALSO A LACK OF BUY
IN FROM THE PUBLIC ON REA
DUESING THE NUMBER OF DEER.
>> THE NUMBER OF DEER KILLED BY
HUNTERS EACH YEAR HAS ACTUALLY
GONE DOWN SINCE THE DISCOVERY OF
CWD, BUT THAT COINCIDES WITH THE
A DROP IN THE NUMBER OF HUNTERS.
BUT CWD HAS ALSO SPREAD.
FROM THE FIRST THREE POSITIVES
IN 2002, IT HAS EXPANDED TO
COVER MOST OF SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN.
AND NOW 56 COUNTIES EITHER HAVE
A DEER THAT HAS TESTED POSITIVE
OR ARE WITHIN 10 MILES OF A
POSITIVE CASE.
>> I WAS CONCERNED BECAUSE I'M
PART OF THE WHOLE THING.
>> WHEN KATHRYN WHITE BROUGHT
THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY IN JUNEAU
COUNTY, SHE DIDN'T BUILD A KA
CABIN, SHE PUT UP A TREE STAND.
BUT CWD-POSITIVE DEER HAVE BEEN
FOUND JUST A FEW MILES AWAY.
>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT SPREAD,
I DIDN'T KNOW IT THE TORTURE THE
DEER MUST GO THROUGH.
>> SHE FIRST STARTED HUNTING
BACK WHEN DEER NUMBERS WERE LOW
AND IT WASN'T COMMON TO SEE A
WOMAN IN BLAZE ORANGE.
>> THIS IS A PICTURE OF MY FIRST
BUCK.
>> I GOT INTO IT BECAUSE MY
HUSBAND AT THAT TIME WENT WITH
THE BOYS HUNTING, AND I HAD TO
STAY HOME.
AND I DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
FOR SOME REASON, I THOUGHT I'D
LIKE HUNTING.
>> CWD HASN'T CHANGED HOW SHE
FEELS ABOUT HER TIME IN THE
WOODS.
>> I CAN FEEL, I FEEL ALIVE OUT
HERE.
IT'S A PASSION.
IT BRINGS SOMETHING TO ME.
>> BUT IT HAS MADE HER TEST HER
DEER, AND WONDER WHY MORE PEOPLE
DON'T.
>> I'M MORE AWARE.
I DON'T WANT THE SPREAD OF IT.
I THINK I HAVE TO DO MY PART,
AND IT WOULD BE NICE IF OTHER
PEOPLE DID THEIR PART.
>> IN 2018, HUNTERS KILLED
336,000 DEER, BUT ONLY 17 THOWL,
JUST17 --ONLY 17,000, JUST 5%, WERE
TESTED FOR CWD.
THE TESTS ARE FREE AND THE DNR
HAS TRIED TO MAKE IT MORE
CONVENIENT BY SETTING UP CWD
KIOSKS WHERE HUNTERS CAN DROP
OFF A DEER HEAD AND GET THE
RESULTS EMAILED TO THEM.
BUT THE WAIT CAN RANGE FROM DAYS
IN BOW SEASON TO A MONTH OR MORE
AFTER THE GUN SEASON.
AND THAT CAN BE ENOUGH TO
CONVINCE SOME HUNTERS THAT
TESTING ISN'T WORTH IT.
>> IT'S TIME FRAME, AND IT'S NOT
CONVENIENT TOO.
>> I'M GOOD TOO.
>> YOU'RE GOOD?
>> YEAH.
>> THEY SPEND THEIR WEEKENDS IN
THE FALL CAMPING IN YELLOWSTONE
STATE PARK IN SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN.
>> JUST -- HEY, YOU WANT TO GO
OUT AND SHOOT SOME DEERS?
LET'S GO.
>> THE CAMPGROUND IS RIGHT NEXT
TO PUBLIC HUNTING LAND.
OPENING DAY IN SEPTEMBER, THEY
GOT A DOE AND HAD IT BACK AT
CAMP.
>> WE SPLILT SPLIT IT UP, EVERYBODY
GETS A LEG.
>> THEY DIDN'T BOTHER TESTING
FOR CWD BECAUSE JUST A FEW WEEKS
LATER, IT HAD ALREADY BEEN WE GO IN A GROUP, SO EVERY
DEER IS LIKE ONE FIFTH FOR US,
PER FAMILY, SO IT'S NOT THAT
LONG.
>> HIS GROUP CAN NUMBER UP TO 10
HUNTERS, AND BETWEEN BOW AND GUN
SEASON, THEY MIGHT SHOOT AND EAT
UP TO 20 DEER A YEAR.
HE SAYS THEY'VE NEVER SEEN A
DEER THAT LOOKED SICK IN THE
WILD.
>> I'VE SEEN PICTURES ONLINE,
AND THEY LOOK SCARY, BUT YEAH --
>> BUT NOT EVERY INFECTED DEER
LOOKS SICK AND THERE ARE
DEFINITELY INFECTED DEER IN THE
AREA.
THE PREVALENCE RATE FOR CWD
VARIES AROUND THE STATE, BUT IN
THE MONITORED ZONE OF IOWA AND
DANE COUNTIES, JUST NORTH OF
YELLOWSTONE LAKE, THE DNR
ESTIMATES 15% OF ADULT DOUGHS DOES ARE
INFECTED AND 35% OF BUCKS.
DESPITE ALL THAT, VONG AND ALL
THE OTHER HUNTERS WHO DON'T TEST
FOR CWD STILL HAVE ONE STATISTIC
ON THEIR SIDE.
>> AS FAR AS I'M AWARE, THEY
SAID YOU KNOW, IT CAN'T TRANSMIT
FROM DEER TO HUMANS, SO SHOULD
BE OKAY.
>> ZAC SCHULTZ JOINS US NOW WITH
MORE.
FIRST, ZAC, WHY DOES THE DNR
ENCOURAGE TESTING?
>> WELL, THERE'S A COUPLE
REASONS FOR THAT.
THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
HUNTERS ARE BEING KNOWLEDGEABLE
ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE CONSUMING,
BUT ALSO THEY WANT TO KNOW IF
THIS HAS SPREAD FARTHER THAN
WHERE THEY ORIGINALLY ARE
TRACKING IT.
THIS STARTED IN SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN, AND THEN IT KIND OF
SPREAD OUT FROM THERE, BUT
THROUGH SOME MOVEMENT, IT HAS
GONE TO MOST COUNTIES AROUND THE
STATE, AND THEY WANT TO KNOW IF
IT'S GONE BEYOND THAT.
AND IF HUNTERS AREN'T TESTING IN
A CERTAIN COUNTY BECAUSE IT
HASN'T BEEN FOUND THERE, THEY'RE
NOT GOING TO FIND IT UNLESS THEY
DO THE TESTING IN THE FIRST
PLACE.
SO IT'S KIND OF A CHICKEN AND
THE EGG, IF THEY AREN'T DOING
TESTING IN CERTAIN SPOTS,
THEY'LL NEVER KNOW IF IT GOT
THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND A
LOT OF HUNTERS SAY IT'S NOT
HERE, I'M NOT GOING TO BOTHER
TESTING.
>> ARE EFFORTS BEING MADE TO
MAKE DEER TESTING MORE
CONVENIENT FOR THEM?
>> THE DNR HAS GOT A LOT OF
DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THEY'RE
TRYING TO COULD.
DO.
ONE OF THE THINGS IS MAKING THE
CWD KIOSKS AVAILABLE IN MORE
PLACES AROUND THE STATE.
IT USED TO BE WHEN PEOPLE
REGISTERED THEIR DEER IN PERSON
AT A TAVERN OR A PLACE, THE DNR
COULD JUST GO THERE, ALL THE
HUNTERS CAME IN AND BROUGHT THE
DEER TO THEM AND THEY COULD TAKE
ALL THE SAMPLES THEY WANTED IN A
CERTAIN SPOT.
NOW THAT YOU DO THE REGISTRATION
ONLINE OR OVER THE PHONE,
HUNTERS DON'T BRING THEIR DEER
ANYWHERE UNTIL THE LOCKER MARKET
OR WHEREVER THEY'RE GOING TO
BUTCHER.
SO THEY HAVE TO MAKE CWD TESTING
MORE ACCESSIBLE SO THERE'S
KIOSKS IN SOME OF THOSE PLACES
WHERE YOU USED TO REGISTER THEIR
DEER, THEY CAN NOW DROP OFF A
HEAD OR DO THE TESTING THERE.
SO THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT
BROADER IN THAT SENSE, BUT
THEY'RE ALSO TRYING TO DO OTHER
WAYS OF MAKING IT EASIER FOR
HUNTERS TO KNOW ABOUT TESTING IN
THE FIRST PLACE.
>> WHAT ABOUT REDUCING THE WAIT
TIMES FOR THESE RESULTS?
>> WELL, THAT IS ONE THING THAT
THEY'RE LOOKING AT.
THEY'VE TRIED TO INCREASE THE
CAPACITY TO HANDLE MORE TESTS,
BUT IT'S GOING TO VARY
THROUGHOUT THE SEASON.
IN THE BOW SEASON, STARTING IN
SEPTEMBER, WHEN THERE'S NOT THAT
MANY DEER SHOT ON A DAILY BASIS,
THEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET TEST
RESULTS FASTER.
AS WE SAW THE FAMILY IN THAT
STORY GOT THEIR RESULTS IN JUST
A FEW DAYS.
BUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GUN
SEASON, WHEN THERE'S TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF DEER BEING SHOT
EVERY DAY, THEN IT'S GOING TO
TAKE LONGER WHEN ALL THOSE DEER
COME IN FOR TESTING AT ONCE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UP TO 20,000
DEERL IN20,000DEER IN A COMPLETE SEASON.
THE DNR IS TRYING TO DO MORE TO
WATCH THE SPREAD OF THE DISEASE
BY TESTING IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF
THE STATE, AND THEY THINK
THEY'VE FOUND THE PERFECT PLACE
TO DO ADDITIONAL RESO RESEARCH ON HOW
TO SLOW THE SPREAD OF CWD IN
WISCONSIN.
>> THIS IS PRIME WHITETAIL
HABITAT.
YEARS AGO, THIS PROPERTY HELD
SOME MONSTER BUCKS.
BUT THERE ARE NO DEER HERE NOW,
AND THE DNR WANTS TO KEEP IT
THAT WAY.
>> WE'RE VERY COMPELLED TO
PROTECT THE LOCAL WILD DEER HERD
FROM THIS PROPERTY, FROM THIS
SOIL THAT WE'RE STANDING ON HERE
TODAY.
>> TAMMY RYAN IS ACTING DIRECTOR
OF THE DNR'S WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT
BUREAU.
>> WE'RE CURRENTLY AT WHAT WE
REFER TO AS THE ALMOND FARM.
>> IT TAKES ITS NAME FROM THE
NEARBY VILLAGE OF ALMOND, BUT IN
2002, THIS WAS A DEER FARM
CALLED BUCKHORN FLATS, AND THE
LOCATION FOR THE FIRST POSITIVE
TEST FOR CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE
ON A GAME FARM IN WISCONSIN.
>> THIS IS WHERE THE FIRST
CAPTIVE DEER WAS DETECTED.
>> THE DEER FARM WAS DEPOPULATED
IN 2006 BY THE USDA.
IN ALL, 82 DEER FROM THIS FARM
TESTED POSITIVE FOR CWD.
>> AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS
DEPOPULATED, THERE WAS AN 80%
PREVALENCE RATE FROM THAT
DEPOPULATION.
>> THE DNR BOUGHT THE PROPERTY
IN 2011 AND ADDED A SECOND
FENCE.
EVEN THOUGH THE DEER WERE GONE,
THE SOIL ITSELF IS TOXIC.
>> THE DISEASE CAN BE
TRANSMITTED THROUGH EXPOSURE
JUST TO THE CONTAMINATED SOIL.
SO DEER THAT HAVE CWD ARE
SHEDDING PREONS IN THEIR BODILY
FLUID, SO THEIR URINE, THEIR
SALIVA, THEIR FECES.
>> FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, THE
FARM HAS SAT UNUSED, BUT NOW THE
DNR HAS FOUND A WAY TO TURN THE
FENCES AND THE SOIL INTO A
POSITIVE.
A RESEARCH PROJECT.
>> THIS SITE IS ALREADY
CONSIDERED CONTAMINATED AND
QUARANTINED, IT MADE IT A
PERFECT SITE TO DO THE WORK.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT
YOUR GRADE ONLINE --
>> ROB MY BACKGROUND, MY PH.D. WORK
WAS IN COMPOSTING SLAUGHTERHOUSE
WASTE.
>> SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE ARE THE
FOUR COMPOSTING BINS THAT ARE
GOING TO BE USED FOR THE
RESEARCH.
>> HE BUILT THESE FULLY
CONTAINED COMPOSTING CELLS AND
PLANS TO PUT TWO CWD-POSITIVE
DEER IN EACH CELL.
>> WHEN WE BUILD THE PILES WITH
THE CARCASSES, THEY GET BURIED,
COVERED WITH A THICK LAYER OF
SAWDUST AND THEY BASICALLY SIT
THERE FOR THREE TO SIX MONTHS,
UNDISTURBED WITH NOTHING ELSE
GETTING INTO IT.
>> THE PLAN IS TO SEE IF
COMPOSTING WILL BREAK DOWN AND
DEGRADE THE P REONS THAT CAUSE
CWD, THEREBY PREVENTING MORE
CONTAMINATION.
HE'LL BE TESTING THE SOIL AND
ANY WATER THAT FILTERS THROUGH
THE CELLS.
A SIMILAR STUDY IN CANADA SHOWED
PROMISE.
>> WE HAVE SEEN SOME GOOD
RESULTS WHERE THE PREO HAS REON HAS
BEEN DEGRADED.
WE JUST DON'TNESS SAIR LEA KNOW
WHAT'S DOING IT.
IS IT A CERTAIN MICROBE, A
CERTAIN TEMPERATURE.
>> ONE REASON THIS STUDY IS SO
IMPORTANT IS IT'S GETTING MORE
DIFFICULT TO DISPOSE OF DEER
CARCASSES.
THE DNR SECRETARY DESIGNEE SAYS
CWD-POSITIVE DEER ARE BEING
DRIVEN ALL OVER THE STATE WHEN A
HUNTER SHOOTS A DEER AND THEN
TAKES IT HOME FOR PROCESSING.
>> SO THEY'RE FLYING BLIND WHEN
IT COMES TO IF THAT CARCASS HAS
IT OR NOT.
THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM FOR MANY
PLACES WHERE CWD ISN'T.
>> ESPECIALLY IF THE HUNTER
DROPS THE BONES IN THE WOODS OR
THE TRASH, BECAUSE THOSE PREONS
COULD ENTER THE SOIL AND INFECT
MORE DEAL.
>> WE HAVE PEOPLE -- IT'S
CREATING CHALLENGES FOR DEER
HUNTERS, FOR OUR MEAT
PROCESSORS, TAX DETERMINISTS.
>> LET'S TRY TO FOCUS ON THE
POSITIVES.
>> THE DNR TRIED TO IMPLEMENT
EMERGENCY RULES LAST YEAR ABOUT
MOVING DEER CARCASSES, BUT
LEGISLATURE OVERRULED THEM.
COLE HOPES SCIENCE WILL HELP
GUIDE THE DEBATE AT THE CAPITOL.
>> THE CARCASS TRANSPORT RULE IS
A ROBUST CONVERSATION THAT'S
ONGOING RIGHT NOW.
>> HOPEFULLY THIS RESEARCH WILL
PROVIDE A LONG TERM SOLUTION FOR
US IN OUR EVER-INCREASING
CHALLENGES WITH THE DISPOSAL OF
DEER CARCASS WASTE.
>> HE SAYS HE EXPECTS TO GET
RESULTS NEXT YEAR AND ALREADY
HAS IDEAS ABOUT FUTURE RESEARCH
AT THE ALMOND FARM.
>> THERE'S LOTS OF ROOM AT THE
LOCATION SORT OF THING.
SO THERE'S ALL SORTS OF
DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN GO.
>> ZAC, HOW WELL-KNOWN IS THIS
RESEARCH THAT YOU ARE REPORTING
ON?
>> NOT VERY BY MOST HUNTERS.
THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IMMEDIATELY
AROUND THE ALMOND FARM ARE KEPT
INFORMED BY THE DNR AS PART OF
AN AGREEMENT THE DNR MADE WHEN
THEY PURCHASED THAT, BECAUSE OF
CONTAMINATION THERE, THEY WOULD
LET IMMEDIATE LAND OWNERS AND
PEOPLE AROUND THERE KNOW ABOUT
ANY ONGOING CHANGES TO THE
FACILITY, INCLUDING RESEARCH,
BUT UNLESS YOU'RE DIGGING DEEP
INTO THE DNR WEBSITE OR
FOLLOWING WHAT RESEARCH THEY'RE
DOING, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO
ABOUT THIS YET BASICALLY BECAUSE
IT'S JUST UNDERWAY.
>> FROM YOUR REPORTING, YOU GET
KIND OF A SENSE, BUT IS THIS A
PARTISAN THING AT ALL?
>> IT IS AND IT ISN'T.
IT SHOULDN'T BE AND MOST PEOPLE
AGROW IT'SAGREE IT'S NOT BUT THERE'S A
HISTORY OF PARTISAN NATURE THAT
COMES WITH ALL OF THESE KIND OF
DNR QUESTIONS.
THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF PEOPLE WE
SAW IN SOME OF THE STORIES BEING
FRUSTRATED WITH THE CUTS TO
SCIENCE AT THE DNR AND WHETHER
THOSE SCIENTISTS WOULD HAVE
WORKED ON CWD-RELATED PROJECTS
OR NOT.
IT WAS STILL THE IDEA THAT
GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER AND
REPUBLICANS WERE OPPOSED TO
DOING SOME OF THIS RESEARCH AND
THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE REASON
WHY IT TOOK SO LONG FOR SOME OF
THESE PROJECTS TO COME ONLINE,
BUT THE REVERSE SIDE,
REPUBLICANS REPRESENT THE AREAS
WHERE A LOT OF THESE HUNTERS
LIVE AND HUNT, SO THEY'RE VERY
MUCH IN TOUCH WITH THEIR
CONSTITUENTS AND A LOT OF
HUNTERS DON'T LIKE TO SEE
CHANGES TO HOW THE SEASON WORKS
AND HOW THEIR HUNT WORKS.
THE CULTURE ABOUT HUNTING IS
VERY MUCH BASED ON TRADITION.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ALL RIGHT.
WELL, ZAC SCHULTZ, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPORTING.
FINALLY, ONE MORE NOTE FROM THE
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL.
OF THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD ABOUT
CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, 49%
APPROVE OF HOW THE DNR IS
HANDLING THE ISSUE.
AND THAT IS ALL FOR OUR PROGRAM
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
?
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
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WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.