JOHNSON WAS A MAIN PLAYER IN THE
EVENTS NOW EMBROILING THE NATION
IN IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS
AGAINST PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.
SENATOR JOHNSON IS CURRENTLY THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE EUROPEAN
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE SENATE
FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE AND
AS SUCH, HAS WORKED ON UKRAINE
ISSUES CLOSELY.
HE RELEASED A 10-PAGE LETTER
THIS WEEK AT THE REQUEST OF
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE
REPUBLICANS, DETAILING HIS
TIMELINE AND VERSION OF EVENTS
AROUND THE WITHHOLDING OF NEARLY
$400 MILLION IN U.S. MILITARY
AID TO UKRAINE.
WE SAT DOWN WITH THE SENATOR FOR
A LONG FORM INTERVIEW ON THE
MATTER.
YOU CAN FIND THE FULL INTERVIEW
ON OUR WEBSITE AT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG.
TONIGHT, AN E ERPT OF EXCERPT OF OUR
DISCUSSION WITH SENATOR JOHNSON.
GIVEN YOUR POSITION AND STRONG
SUPPORT OF UKRAINE, WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION TO THESE IMPEACHMENT
HEARINGS WITH THE THREE
WITNESSES, RUNNING THE RUDY
GIULIANI DIPLOMACY OF THIS FOR
THAT, AT THE BEHEST OF THE
PRESIDENT WITH THE MILITARY AID
IN THE BALANCE, WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL I THINK
IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE THIS HAS
BEEN EXPOSED AND MADE SO PUBLIC.
WE OFTEN REFER TO THE
LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AS SAUSAGE
MAKING.
THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR SOME
FOREIGN POLICY AS WELL, AND WE
TRUTHFULLY WERE WELL UNDERWAY IN
THAT SAUSAGE-MAKING PROCESS,
BOTH WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION,
BUT ALSO BETWEEN THE BRANCHES,
AND THIS DID NOT HAVE TO BE
DRAWN INTO SO PUBLICLY EXPOSED,
IT DIDN'T HAVE TO RESULT IN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, WHICH IS
SOME PRETTY SERIOUS BUSINESS.
SO FROM MY STANDPOINT, MY
REACTION IS IT'S VERY
UNFORTUNATE THAT WE'VE HAD TO GO
THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
>> YOU DON'T FEEL AS THOUGH THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE TO KNOW
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH U.S. AID
TO UKRAINE AND THE ALLEGED
DIRECTION FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND HIS LAWYER FOR THAT COUNTRY
TO INVESTIGATE A POLITICAL
OPPONENT?
>> IT'S RESULTED IN WHAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP THOUGHT WAS
PRETTY IMPORTANT, WAS TO RELEASE
THE TRANSCRIPT OF HIS
CONVERSATION WITH A PRESIDENT OF
ANOTHER COUNTRY.
THAT SETS A VERY DANGEROUS
PRECEDENT.
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT
FOR FUTURE PRESIDENTS TO HAVE
CANDID CONVERSATIONS WITH WORLD
LEADERS.
WE'VE WEAK ENDED EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE.
IT CERTAINLY HASN'T HELPED OUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH UKRAINE.
SO THIS HAS JUST BEEN AN
UNFORTUNATE SITUATION ALL THE
WAY AROUND.
>> LET ME JUST UP PACK THIS A
LITTLE BIT.
TESTIMONY FROM ONE OF THE THREE
AMIGOS, THE U.S. AMBASSADOR TO
THE E.U. SAID THAT EVERYONE WAS
IN THE LOOP ON THE PRESIDENT
TRUMP DIRECTIVE TO GET UKRAINE
TO INVESTIGATE THE 2016
CAMPAIGN, AND BURISMA OR JOE
BIDEN'S SON.
WERE YOU IN THE LOOP ON ALL OF
THAT?
>> WHAT I WAS IN THE LOOP IN IS
VERY -- DESCRIBED IN GREAT
DETAIL IN MY 10-PAGE RESPONSE TO
THE HOUSE REQUEST.
AND SO I'D LET MY LETTER STAND
ON ITS OWN.
CERTAINLY I UNDERSTOOD THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS HIGHLY
FRUSTRATED BY THE FACT THAT
THERE WERE RUMORS IN UKRAINE
INVOLVED -- THAT UKRAINE WAS
INVOLVED IN THE 2016 ELECTION.
BY THE WAY, THERE'S PLENTY OF
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS WHEN IT
RELATES TO THAT AS WELL.
>> TOP SECURITY OFFICIALS AND
DIPLOMATS SAY THAT UKRAINE 2016
ELECTION MEDDLING WAS RUSSIAN
DISINFORMATION, A FICTIONAL
NARRATIVE, ADVANCING RUSSIAN
INTERESTS.
WHAT ABOUT THAT?
>> THERE'S PLENTY OF EVIDENCE
THAT THERE WAS INVOLVEMENT BY
DEMOCRATS IN THE HILLARY CLINTON
CAMPAIGN AND THE DNC, AND AGAIN
THE PRESS BY AND LARGE IS NOT
PARTICULAR LIQUEUR JUST ABOUT
PARTICULARLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT,
WHICH ALSO DRIVES CONSERVATIVES
LIKE ME AND PRESIDENT TRUMP
NUTS, SO THAT'S WHY I'M
SYMPATHETIC WITH PRESIDENT
TRUMP, HE SAID HE'D LIKE TO KNOW
WHAT HAPPENED WITH UKRAINE.
SO WOULD I.
>> BACK TO PRESIDENT TRUMP MORE
SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU THINK IT'S
PROPER FOR A PRESIDENT TO ASK A
FOREIGN LEADER TO INVESTIGATE A
POLITICAL OWE OPPONENT?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT WAS
HAPPENING.
I'VE NEVER HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP
SAY, HEY, DIG UP SOME DIRT ON MY
POLITICAL OPPONENT.
WHAT I HEARD HIM SAY IS, YOU
KNOW, I THINK SOMETHING HAPPENED
IN 2016.
AND SO AGAIN, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT
AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE, LET'S
PUT IT THAT WAY.
>> IMPEACHMENT TESTIMONY SAYS
THERE WAS A QUID PRO QUO, U.S.
AID IN RETURN FOR MEETINGS AND
INVESTIGATIONS.
YOU SAID YOU WINCED WHEN YOU
HEARD OF CONDITIONS, BUT THAT
THE PRESIDENT DENIED IT.
WHY DID YOU WINCE?
>> WELL, AGAIN, I WAS CALLING UP
GORDON ZONDLAND WHO PRETTY
WELL -- THIS IS WHAT HE PRESUMED
OR HEARD FROM PEOPLE LIKE RUDY
GIULIANI.
SO NO, I WINCED BECAUSE AGAIN, I
WAS SUPPORTIVE OF PROVIDING THAT
MILITARY SUPPORT BECAUSE UKRAINE
IS GROUND ZERO IN OUR
GEOPOLITICAL COMPETITION TO
RUSSIA.
THIS IS THE TIME TO SHOW
STRENGTH AND RESOLVE AND I WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT THAT SIGNAL.
SO THAT'S WHY I CALLED UP
PRESIDENT TRUMP THE DAY AFTER --
OR HE CALLED ME BACK UPON MY
QUESTION AFTER OF TALKED TO
GORDON ZONDLAND, TO LET
PRESIDENT EXCELLENCE KE -- LET
THAT FUNDING TO BE RELEASED.
HE GAVE A VERY CONSISTENT
REASON, CORRUPTION AND IN
INADEQUATE SUPPORT FOR MILITARY
ASSISTANCE.
>> SPEAKING OF THAT, DEMOCRATS,
SPECIFICALLY THE CHAIR OF THIS
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE, SAYS THAT
THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS WAS ABOUT.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT ADAM
SCHIFF SAID THIS WEEK.
>> MY COLLEAGUES HAVE TRIED TO
MAKE THE ARGUMENT HERE TODAY AND
WE'VE HEARD IT BEFORE THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS JUST INTERESTED IN
FIGHTING CORRUPTION.
THAT'S OUR GOAL, FIGHTING
CORRUPTION IN UKRAINE, THIS
TERRIBLY CORRUPT COUNTRY.
THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, WITH
THAT IS THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF
THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO FIGHT
CORRUPTION.
THE EVIDENCE ALL POINTS IN THE
OTHER DIRECTION, THE EVIDENCE
POINTS TO THE DIRECTION OF THE
PRESIDENT INVITING UKRAINE TO
ENGAGE IN THE CORRUPT ACT OF
INVESTIGATING A U.S. POLITICAL
OPPONENT.
>> WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT,
SENATOR?
>> I THINK CONGRESSMAN SCHIFF IS
COMPLETELY NOT CREDIBLE.
FROM HIS CHAIRMANSHIP CHAIR, HE
READ A FALSE NARRATIVE OF THE
TRANSCRIPT.
KNOWING THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS
WOULD ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT'S
WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID.
HE DIDN'T.
HE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO
RUDY GIULIANI RUNNING, QUOTE, A
SHADOW FOREIGN POLICY AND
PUSHING THE UKRANIAN GOVERNMENT
TO PURSUE POLITICAL
INVESTIGATIONS OF THE BIDEN
FAMILY THAT WOULD BENEFIT
PRESIDENT TRUMP, UNQUOTE, AS
STATED BY DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
CHRIS MURPHY?
>> TO MY KNOWLEDGE -- RUDY
GIULIANI, DEURNLG THE 2016 -- I REALLY DON'T
KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING, OBVIOUSLY
I READ THE NEWS REPORTS AS WELL.
I CAN'T AS A BLANKET STATEMENT
SAY HIS INVOLVEMENT PROBABLY
HASN'T BEEN PARTICULARLY
HELPFUL.
>> YOU SAIR YOU BELIEVE THE
IMPEEVE CH INQUIRY IS AN EFFORT
TO SABOTAGE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION AND LUMP
DECORATED NATIONAL SECURITY
MEMBERS AS PART OF THAT EFFORT.
SHOULD WE BELIEVE THAT THESE TOP
LEVEL SECURITY ADVISORS AND
DIPLOMATES THAT WE'RE HEARING IN
THESE HEARINGS ARE LYING UNDER
OATH?
>> I VALUE THEIR SERVICE.
BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE, THERE IS A
BIAS, AND THERE IS SOMETHING
GOING WRONG WITHIN GOVERNMENT.
THERE'S BEEN A CONCERTED I THINK
PROBABLY COORDINATED EFFORT
SINCE THE DAY AFTER PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S ELECTION TO SABOTAGE HIS
ADMINISTRATION.
LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE
ATTORNEY THAT THE WHISTLEBLOWER
HIRED, MARK ZADE, TWO TWEETED 10
DAYS AFTER THE INAUGURATION WITH
WORDS LIKE COUP, REBELLION AND
IMPEACHMENT WILL FOLLOW
ULTIMATELY.
I THINK THAT KIND OF GIVES YOU
SOME SENSE THAT MAYBE THERE'S
SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON HERE,
MAYBE THERE IS A CONCERTED
EFFORT TO SABOTAGE THIS
ADMINISTRATION THAT STARTED VERY
EARLY IN THIS PRESIDENT'S
ADMINISTRATION.
HOPEFULLY WHAT THIS WILL DO LONG
TERM, IT'S BEEN DONE A LOT OF
DAMAGE TO OUR DEMOCRACY, TO
FUTURE PRESIDENTS.
REALLY, NOT THAT PARTICULARLY
HELPFUL FOR UKRAINE, LET'S TRY
AND TURN THAT SITUATION AROUND
AND LET'S TRY AND GAIN SOME
OPPORTUNITY OUT OF THIS AND
EXPRESS AMERICA'S STRONG SUPPORT
FOR THE COURAGEOUS PEOPLE OF THE
UKRAINE.
>> SENATOR RON JOHNSON, WE LEAVE
IT THERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
>> HAVE A GOOD DAY.
>> AGAIN, THE FULL INTERVIEW CAN
BE FOUND ON PBSWISCONSIN.ORG.
MEANWHILE, IN WISCONSIN,
DECLINING NUMBERS OF PEOPLE
THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD BE
IMPEACHED.
THE LATEST MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL
POLL CONDUCTED IN THE MIDST OF
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS SHOWS 40%
OF REGISTERED VOTERS THINK TRUMP
SHOULD BE IMPEACHED.
THAT'S DOWN FROM 44% LAST MONTH.
53% DO NOT THINK SO, AND 6% SAY
THEY DON'T KNOW.
THOSE NUMBERS WERE 51 AND 4%
LAST MONTH.
IN ADDITION, PRESIDENT TRUMP
HOLDS SMALL LEADS OVER EACH OF
THE TOP FOUR DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
CANDIDATES.
THREE OF THE DEMOCRATS HELD
SMALL LEADS IN