>> FROM HEALTH NEWS TO A CLOSER
LOOK AT EDUCATION AND A
STUBBORN ACHIEVEMENT GAP
PROBLEM IN WISCONSIN.
IT'S A PROBLEM STATE
SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS
CAROLYN STANFORD TAYLOR SPOKE
TO IN HER STATE OF EDUCATION
ADDRESS THURSDAY.
>> TOGETHER WE CAN HAVE THE
DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT
RACE AND EQUITY IN OUR SCHOOLS
AND OUR COMMUNITIES AND TACKLE
OUR ACHIEVEMENT ACCESS AND
OPPORTUNITY GAP AS THE CRISIS
IT IS.
TOO MANY OF OUR STUDENTS OF
COLOR, STUDENTS WITH
DISABILITIES, ENGLISH LEARNERS,
AND STUDENTS FROM LOW INCOME
FAMILIES STRUGGLE TO ACHIEVE
THEIR DREAMS AND REACH THEIR
FULL POTENTIAL.
WE HAVE TO GET LEARNING RIGHT
ON THE FRONT END OR WISCONSIN
AS A STATE WILL NEVER ACHIEVE
TRUE SUCCESS.
>> SUPERINTENDENT STANFORD
TAYLOR WILL BE A GUEST ON NEXT
WEEK'S PROGRAM.
THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP IS
REFLECTED IN A BIG WAY IN THE
2018-2019 TEST SCORE RESULTS
THAT SHOW A DECLINE IN STUDENT
PERFORMANCE OVERALL.
ACCORDING TO THE STATE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION, STUDENT TEST
SCORES SHOW 40.1% OF STUDENTS
WERE PROFICIENT OR ADVANCED IN
MATH.
DOWN A PERCENTAGE POINT FROM
LAST YEAR.
LIKEWISE, OVERALL SCORES IN
ENGLISH SLIPPED TO 39.3% OF
STUDENTS TESTING PROFICIENT OR
ADVANCED, DOWN FROM 40.6 THE
YEAR BEFORE.
AGAIN THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP
BETWEEN WHITE AND BLACK
STUDENTS ALSO PERSISTS.
FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE THIRD GRADE
12% OF BLACK STUDENTS WERE
PROFICIENT IN READING COMPARED
TO 46.1% OF WHITE STUDENTS.
IN MATH 15.7% OF BLACK STUDENTS
TESTED PROFICIENT COMPARED TO
58.5% OF WHITE STUDENTS.
THE RESULTS CAUGHT THE
ATTENTION OF MEMBERS OF THE
STATE LEGISLATURE, INCLUDING
THE CHAIR OF THE ASSEMBLY
EDUCATION COMMITTEE, REPUBLICAN
REPRESENTATIVE JEREMY
THIESFELDT WHO JOINS US FROM
HIS DISTRICT IN POND -- FOND
DU LAC.
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU
SAW THESE SCORES?
>> WELL, THIS IS THE FOURTH
YEAR THAT MOST OF OUR STUDENTS
HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT'S CALLED
THE FORWARD EXAM.
SO WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD
DATASET AVAILABLE TO US NOW
THAT YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU
ARE MAKING FLIPPANT JUDGMENTS
BASED ON ONE YEAR OF DATA.
SO WHEN I SAW THESE RESULTS AND
I NOTED THAT THERE HAS BEEN A
PRETTY CONSISTENT DOWNWARD
TREND THROUGH ALL FOUR YEARS OF
THEM, IT RAISED SOME CONCERNS
ON MY PART BECAUSE I HAVE A
SIGNIFICANT ROLE AND I
APPRECIATE HAVING THAT ROLE,
BUT WE CAN STILL TAKE SOME
COMFORT THAT WISCONSIN IS STILL
AHEAD OF MOST OTHER STATES.
BUT IT IS CONCERNING TO ME THAT
WE MOST CERTAINLY ARE NOT
HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
OUR SCORES ARE TRENDING
DOWNWARD QUICKLY.
AND IF YOU WERE TO GO INTO THE
SUBGROUPS IN PARTICULAR
DISTRICTS YOU'LL FIND THAT
THERE WERE DROPS IN THE SCORES
AS MUCH AS BETWEEN 10 AND 15%
BETWEEN YEAR ONE OF THE FORWARD
EXAM AND YEAR FOUR OF THE
FORWARD EXAM.
IT IS TIME FOR US TO STOP
TALKING ABOUT IT AND DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU
THINK WE SHOULD DO BUT YOU SAY
THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS
DEDICATED INCREASING AMOUNTS OF
FUNDING TOWARD K-12 EVERY YEAR
SINCE 2011.
IN THE 2011 BUDGET WAS CUT.
HOW DO YOU FIGURE INCREASES
SINCE 2011?
>> THAT MAY HAVE BEEN AN ERROR
ON MY PART.
I SHOULD HAVE SAID 2012.
I KNOW THERE WERE SOME CUTS IN
THAT FIRST BUDGET.
THERE WERE CUTS ACROSS THE
BOARD IN THE BUDGET.
BUT SINCE THAT TIME THERE HAVE
BEEN INCREASING AMOUNTS OF
DOLLARS INVESTED IN EDUCATION
AND PARTICULARLY THE LAST TWO
BUDGETS VERY HEALTHY AMOUNTS.
AND WE'RE SIMPLY NOT SEEING
RESULTS FROM THAT.
NOW, THE STANDARDIZED TEST
SCORES ARE CERTAINLY NOT THE
ONLY MEASURE YOU WOULD LOOK IT
BUT IT IS A CONCRETE MEASURE
AND IT IS A VALUABLE TOOL AND
THESE RESULTS ARE HEADED
DOWNWARD.
AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS
IS A MONEY PROBLEM.
I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A
METHODOLOGY PROBLEM.
PARTICULARLY IN OUR READING
SCORES.
>> SO YOU WERE SUGGESTING THAT
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO DO?
>> WELL, SOME OF THAT IS BEING
FORMULATED YET.
I WON'T PRODUCE A PLAN UNTIL I
HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF
WHICH DIRECTION I WANT TO GO
AND UNTIL I'VE COLLABORATED
WITH SOME OTHER STAKEHOLDERS ON
THE ISSUE.
BUT FOCUSING IN PARTICULAR ON
READING BECAUSE I STRONGLY
BELIEVE THAT READING IS AT THE
CORE OF ALL ACADEMIC STUDIES.
IF YOU CANNOT -- IF YOU CANNOT
EFFECTIVELY READ YOU CANNOT
EFFECTIVELY LEARN.
I DON'T CARE WHAT SUBJECT IT
IS, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO READ
IN TODAY'S WORLD AND READ
EFFECTIVELY AT OR ABOVE GRADE
LEVEL IN ORDER TO HAVE --
REALLY HAVE SUCCESS IN OUR
WORLD TODAY.
AND SO WE HAVE HAD AND THIS
GOES BACK TO EVEN WHEN I WAS IN
COLLEGE BACK IN THE 1980s AND
THERE WAS THIS WHOLE LANGUAGE
APPROACH TO READING THAT
STARTED TO TAKE HOLD.
AND THAT HAS PERMEATED SCHOOLS
NOT JUST IN WISCONSIN BUT
ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.
AND THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN
DECREASINGLY -- HAVE BEEN
INCREASINGLY POOR AS THE YEARS
HAVE GONE BY.
WE NEED TO RETURN TO A
PHONICS-BASED APPROACH, TO
READING INSTRUCTION.
AND THIS NEEDS TO START AT OUR
COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES WHO
TRAIN OUR TEACHERS.
AND WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO
GET THE PROFESSORS OF THESE
SCHOOLS TO STOP HIDING BEHIND
ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND SEEMINGLY
GOING WITH WHATEVER THE FLAVOR
OF THE MONTH IS IN ACADEMIA,
AND GO WITH WHAT WE KNOW
SCIENCE TELLS US HISTORICALLY
BASED IS HOW CHILDREN LEARN TO
READ EFFECTIVELY.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
I UNDERSTAND THIS IS QUITE A
CONTROVERSY IN THE ACADEMIC
WORLD.
SO REPRESENTATIVE THIESFELDT.
THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> WE MOVE NOW TO THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE AISLE.
DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE
LAKESHIA MYERS IS ALSO ON THE
ASSEMBLY EDUCATION COMMITTEE.
SHE IS A FORMER TRAINER OF
TEACHERS AT MILWAUKEE PUBLIC
SCHOOLS AND SHE JOINS US FROM
MILWAUKEE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> AS WE ASKED OUR LAST GUEST,
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU
SAW THE MOST RECENT STUDENT
TEST SCORES?
>> MY INITIAL REACTION WAS TO
DIVE DEEPER.
I TAKE SCORES WITH A GRAIN OF
SALT BECAUSE I KNOW HOW THEY
CAN BE SKEWED.
I KNOW HOW IT IS FOR STUDENTS
TO TAKE A NAPE EXAM, THE
WISCONSIN FORWARD EXAM AND WHAT
IT'S LIKE TO GUIDE STUDENTS
THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
AND YOU GET MIXED BAG OF
REACTIONS FROM STUDENTS WHO ARE
TIRED OF TEST TAKING AND THOSE
WHO, YOU KNOW, MAY JUST WANT TO
GET IT OVER WITH AND YOU MAY
ALSO GET STUDENTS WHO ARE
GENUINELY NERVOUS ABOUT TAKING
ASSESSMENTS AND THERE ARE SO
MANY OF THEM YOU HAVE TO LOOK
DEEPER INTO WHAT THE
ASSESSMENTS ACTUALLY CURRY.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT LOOKING AT
THE NAPE ASSESSMENT, THE NAPE
ASSESSMENT IS ONE THAT IS QUITE
FRANKLY GRADED HARDER THAN
OTHER ASSESSMENTS.
WHAT IT TAKES FOR A STUDENT TO
BE LABELED AS PROFICIENT IS
MUCH MORE THAN IT WOULD BE IN
-- ON MOST OTHER ASSESSMENTS.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- GO AHEAD.
>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I
GET ALL THAT BUT WHY IS STUDENT
ACHIEVEMENT AS MEASURED BY
THESE TESTS DECLINING IN
WISCONSIN IN YOUR MIND?
>> I THINK IT CAN BE A BIT OF
TEST BURN-OUT FOR STUDENTS
QUITE FRANKLY.
WHEN YOU DO THE ACT, WHICH IS
LOOKED AT AS THE GOLD STANDARD
IN OUR STATE, HOWEVER WE HAVE
TO LOOK AT THE FACT THAT NOT
ALL STUDENTS WILL BE GOING TO A
FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY
WHERE THEY MAY NOT NEED THE ACT
ASSESSMENT.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT
ALTERNATIVES OF ACT LIKE OTHER
ASSESSMENTS WHERE THEY GO TO A
TRADE OR TECHNICAL COLLEGE.
IT WILL GRADE THEM ON SKILL
BASE AND KNOWLEDGE BASE FOR THE
FIELD THAT THEY'RE PLANNING TO
ENTER.
SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
EVERYTHING AND NOT JUST GO DOWN
ONE PARTICULAR PATH IN GRADING
STUDENTS.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH WE
SHOULD -- YOU ALMOST SOUND LIKE
YOU FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD DO AWAY
WITH THE STANDARDIZED TESTS.
>> SOME OF THEM.
I THINK WE SHOULD GO BACK TO
PROFICIENCY BASED ASSESSMENTS.
THEY WORKED WELL ESPECIALLY
WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL.
THEY WERE USED TO MEASURE WHAT
YOU WERE ACTUALLY LEARNING, NOT
SOME FOREIGN ENTITY FROM
OUTSIDE OF THE STATE CREATING
AN ASSESSMENT TO SAY YOU SHOULD
KNOW X, Y AND Z.
TESTING AND ASSESSMENTS IN
GENERALS THE NUMBERS CAN BE
SKEWED.
THE ASSESSMENTS CAN BE
INEQUITABLE.
I THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENT
FACTORS THAT GO INTO LOOKING AT
ASSESSMENT DATA.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH
WISCONSIN K-12 STUDENTS ARE
THEN ACTUALLY BETTER PREPARED
FOR WHATEVER THEY ARE GOING TO
DO OUT OF SCHOOL THAN THESE
RESULTS WOULD SHOW?
>> ABSOLUTELY MORE THAN LIKELY
YES.
WHEN I WAS IN THE CLASSROOM AND
TRAINING TEACHERS FOR MILWAUKEE
PUBLIC SCHOOL THAT HAPPENED TO
BE ON THE SCHEDULE THAT
STUDENTS WERE TAKING THE ACT
ONE DAY AND THE NEXT DAY THEY
TOOK THE ACT WORK KEYS
ASSESSMENT.
MY ATTENDANCE DROPPED THE NEXT
DAY.
STUDENTS DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE A
BACK-TO-BACK TEST.
THAT HAS CHANGED IN RECENT
YEARS WHERE WE DON'T CONTINUE
TO TEST OUR STUDENTS
BACK-TO-BACK TO BACK.
I LOOK AT QUARTERLY ASSESSMENTS
WOULD BE BETTER AND JUDGING
STUDENTS ON A GENERALIZED
PROFICIENCY-BASED ASSESSMENT.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE ACHIEVEMENT
GAP AS SHOWN IN THESE TEST
RESULTS?
HOW REAL IS THAT?
>> I THINK WE'VE ALWAYS SEEN
ACHIEVEMENT GAPS ESPECIALLY
BETWEEN AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND
WHITE STUDENTS BUT I THINK ONE
OF THE INTERESTING TAKEAWAYS
FROM THIS RECENT BATCH OF TESTS
IS THAT YOU SEE THAT WHITE
STUDENTS ARE SCORING LOWER THAN
THESE ASSESSMENTS SO WE CAN'T
REALLY USE IT AS A GOOD GAUGE
ANYMORE.
BECAUSE WE NEVER UTILIZE THE
SCORES OF ASIAN STUDENTS WHICH
TYPICALLY TEST HIGHER ABOVE
WHITE STUDENTS.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT
SOMETHING AS A BAROMETER WE
HAVE TO GO DEEPER INTO NUMBERS
AND FIND OUT WHAT IS BEHIND
THEM.
>> YOU DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE TO
GO DEEPER WITHIN THE NUMBERS I
IMAGINE BECAUSE I CAN'T IMAGINE
THAT ANYONE IS GOING TO DO AWAY
WITH THESE STANDARDIZED TESTS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO
GO AWAY.
WE NEED TO RE-EVALUATE WHAT
WE'RE ASSESSING AND HOW WE'RE
LOOKING AT THEM.
>> REPRESENTATIVE