Tryout TV: Tale of two Tonys Transcript 
The following program is brought to you in part by a special grant from the friends of channel 21 incorporated. I can't see the stars and moon or hear the joy of children playing. I long to inhale the fragrance of spring in bloom and what my love would be saying. My walks are limited so are my conversations. Laughter is strange to my ears. Loneliness is a faithful relation as I endure these barren years. Men enter the twilight zone embracing each other's vanity. 
Yearning for the sweetness of home, I struggle with insanity. I have no future because of my past. My visits are short and few. I didn't expect love to last when I said goodbye to you. Life is simple now, very routine. Days and nights are the same. 
[music]
Sun shines on unchanging scenes. The Warriors are tame. Yielding to the thrill of erotic fantasy, I stare at my wasted jism aching for the warmth of reality inside the walls of prison. My name is Tony Peyton. I am a 30 year old ex inmate. I served 23 months in Wisconsin Correctional Institution, Fox Lake Wisconsin. My charge was burglary with drug related charge for heroin. Now I'm a free man. Tony Peyton has served almost five years in prison for drug related charges. I'm Chris Bury. 
This is the Wisconsin Correctional Institution at Fox Lake where drugs are a problem shared by nearly 90 percent of the residents. What's it like today for drug addicts doing time? And should they be in prison at all? Some people say drug addicts should be in hospitals. Others say they belong in jail. For the men we will see, the question is answered. They are drug addicts and they are in prison. 
What kind of treatment is available during their years here? And does it really make any difference once they return to the community. To find out, we'll ask the inmates and we'll ask the prison staff. We'll also examine the special relationshop that developed between Tony Peyton and Social Worker, Earl Lorenz, a former prisoner who is now the prison's drug program coordinator. Fox Lake is often considered the jewel of Wisconsin's correctional system. 
It's missing many of the grim reminders that distinguish most prisons. Inmates are called residents; they don't live in cell blocks. They live in housing units. It could almost be a college campus. In fact some call this place, the resort on the lake. There is no doubt in my mind here, that this is a prison with people who intend to maintain that atmosphere that this is a prison. I don't know why they insist on using euphemisms such as residence or housing units because to me it is a prison. 
Early I looked around and saw the gun towers and went into my self. I never shot anyone nor anyone to escape and knowing men who want to be free I said probably someone probably had tried and something like that. what I would try. Of course I said no not wanting to have a bullet in my back. Looking at the place ah looking at the wide open spaces, I could't quite figure why it was built the way it was built and I know that prisons are built for a reason. 
They are not just set down in a place and it's OK here we go house the guys here. And as I begin to grow into the place so to speak and learn the place, I discovered that the spaces in between units create a lot of the ex-communication that exist between the men, primarily the men and the guards here. The place lulls you to sleep. 
Well the initial purpose was to create a medium security adult correctional institution where much less emphasis would be put on security per say or just ah confining people. But conversely more emphasis on the Training and Treatment Program. In other words what happens to people while they are confined or while they are institutionalized. And to expose them to as many positive training and treatment experiences as possible during their during their stay in the institution. 
When we first arrived here we go up to R & O which is orientation period, where there you will stay for approximately two or three days give or take whether they have a room in the units, the housing units where you will be semi-permanently staying while you're here. Then you're checked in, your property is checked in. Then they give you a full round of Fox Lake, showing you the different areas assigned areas, where you might be assigned. 
So you kind of know your way aroung the place Then you return and you wait for classification. Then when you go to classification you're classified prior to coming here. I came here with for a school program which I'm into now. Merchandising. Wherever you will go they will tell you then will be moved to a unit and thus start your time at Fox Lake. How do you feel about that? I had mixed emotions. I didn't know quite I didn't know quite what to feel. 
Of course I was apprehensive, being in a strange place around strange people not knowing many men here because I'm not from here. And wondering what the first few months is going to be like. Men are under constant pressure from both the other residents and from the staff to behave from the staff's point of view in a good way, you know, being good boys. 
and from the residents point of view sort of is sort of a status thing where ah the men want to come across as big men, powerful, controlling, that kind of thing. Two weeks ago they had an incident where a man was sexually assaulted and ah... They put one man up in the hole for a few days and transferred one of them to another unit and three days later he got assaulted again. Then they transferred him out of here but they left the other two individuals here. 
We have had homosexual problems here; we have them today. We try to control it as best we can. If we are able to to ah to pin down the man involved you know in terms of investigation then we take action. For example, the rape you mentioned. That is was investigated by the sheriff's department, man was returned a maximum security institution and the sheriff's department indicated to us that there were prosecutions. 
There's divisions you understand for example of the blacks and whites wind on different sides of the cafeteria. Right. Why do you suppose that is? Do you talk about it with other blacks to say those white folks are weird are the white folks hate the black folks? There are some comments made, derogative comments, some just plain of observation comments. Ah, The men don't seem to let it bother them. 
Ah, I've seen some men refuse to go on the black side and I've seen some black guys refuse to go on the white side. So the inmates are not responsible for that though. I think the administration should be responsible for breaking that up. No as administration staff policy, we feel this is at the discretion of the individual person. We don't force people to associate with anybody, different race or color. This would be almost impossible to administer. 
Is there tension between black and white here? Somewhat. It varies from time to time. The tension varies from time to time, yes. How does it come out? Ah, physical, fights, getting beat up. Two or three guys jumping on one guy, then maybe three or four guys go back and jump on that guy again. Is there racism on the part of the staff, at all? I'd say so yes. In what ways do they discriminate? Ah the discriminating enforcement of rules. 
I've seen some white men get, shall we say, a pat on the hand over things where they enforce to the T the same rule with a black man. Does that happen here? All I can do on that is give you my own opinion. And I say No, definitely not. Ah, I have heard from the residents that they feel the exact opposite. If you're black, you get a break. I personally, I just don't see it, I really don't. I work with Mr. Ellsworth and before Mr. Ellsworth, there was Mr. Borman, who chaired security. And Mr. 
Nagl, they handled court and I'm sure, ah they didn't care what color you were, they looked at the infraction. There are 96 men per unit. We have one officer on the first shift. We have two officers on the second and third shifts for coverage. The man himself as far as the program is concerned, I need certain responsibilities on his own. For example, if he has a school program, he's expected to be at school program at 8:00 o'clock if this is his first assignment. This he does on his own. 
If he does not meet that responsibility, then there's a form of counseling that takes place if it continues and he is then given a conduct report seen by the disciplinary committee. And on their free time, are free to go about institution. The only time we have a pass, is when they go from the administration building back to the school. Are they counted every day? They are counted. We have a morning, noon, evening and when I say late evening, 9:00 o'clock. 
How does that work? Would you describe that? As the control cause to tell them to count by by a bell. And then the officers, then line up the officers take count in front of their doors. Being here, in prison, locked up away from people creates some special problems. Can you go into what they are? I think the most difficult one that the men have to deal with is in terms of the difference between being in prison and living on the streets. 
The prison environment is not even doesn't even approach real life. The 
[unclear]
 of the disception. Yes. They're telling you that and I'm saying this you know that they are telling you, that you're in a medium security prison. You should take on the responsibility of ah responsible living with other men and just as you would do out in society. However you don't socialize with men out in society. I have a wife and child and therefore all your feelings are pent up inside you because you don't have anybody to release them on. And it's being a constant conflict. 
So you were boss of this place, you were running the show, what is the first thing you would do? Furlows. Explain, why. Because it would relieve the anxiety and every inmate in here is anxiety stricken all the way around. He doesn't he's completely alienated from all sorts of social contact, of social thinking, of social feeling, of social philosophy. But isn't that the purpose of prison. No. Is it? 
[laugh]
 We're supposed to be rehabilitated but we're rehabilitated to the context of a criminal, of a caged animal. And there is there is no socializing. I mean there is alienation. You can't ah go over to the next unit and say we're going to get a card game tonight. Or ah. We're going to have a dance down over here. 
[laugh]
. We just don't have that. Prison seems to be a difficult place for rehabilitation. There are constant tensions and pressures upon staff and inmates. Emotional upheavals, racism and homosexuality. Staff and inmates have expressed serious concern over these and other matters. Yet there is a program, the chemical dependency program which seems to be working. But can the program really help the chemical abuser? You're a heroin addict. Yes. 
Is there any kind of treatment here that's helping you enough? Yes they have a chemical dependency program here consistent with three phases. The first phase is groups of maybe 15 to 20 men. The group is administered by Earl Lorenz the drug counselor here. We asked social worker Earl Lorenz, what kind of person he encounters in the chemical dependency program. 
Well an example would be a man who has ah had conflict most of his life, possibly with a very significant other human being such as a mother or father. Has never been able to resolve that conflict, has never been able to verbalize that conflict, has never been able to get it out and express it so we can look at it and have other people look at it for what it really is. It's a fear. It's an anxiety, that he has to deal with. 
He's developed a system where he chooses alcohol or heroin or barbiturates or amphetamines to deal with that rather than looking at it realistically. And when it enters school, it has its first encounter with what it means to encounter the logical system of the society. Prior to this, it's been pretty much nurtured in the family unit. Yeah, they've run it to logic. There's been the no, nos in the growing and accepting the socialization process, becoming human. But it's never been... 
[trails off]
. Chemical dependency 1, is a 12 week lecture series which emphasizes physiology and chemicals of abuse. The course is designed to stimulate serious thought about chemically dependent lifestyles and the consequences of chemical abuse. The course emphasizes solving problems without relying on chemicals. Once a prisoner can solve problems without drugs, he has a better chance of staying out of prison. 
I think the fact that Mr Lorenz shows a lot of positive interest, I know in myself, it kind of stimulated me to come back and come back until I have finally finished. As a matter of fact, I went into phase 2 which consist of a smaller group of men, 6 or 7 men and it's more intense. You get into the person, the personal problems of that individual to try and work with... 
If we can zero in on it, to try to work with, why using drugs, to try to show him why he used drugs, then perhaps he can have a choice and not to use them again. What's basic about shooting heroin into your system or taking a lot of alcohol or doing a lot of speed? What does that signify, what is that turn you onto what what aura 
[?]
 opens up for you? What does it tell you? You know, when like an alcoholic someone says to an alcoholic, what do you keep drinking for. And he says, well because I like it. And he said, yeah but you're like a guy sitting in a corner hitting himself over the head with a hammer and someone says, well why do you keep hitting yourself over the head with a hammer and he says well because it feels so good when I stop. 
Chemical dependency 2 is the next step in the rehabilitation process for the chemical abuser locked up at Fox Lake prison. This small group which is limited to 6 graduates of Chemical Dependency 1, meets for 8 weeks. It is during the 8 weeks that group members are stimulated to examine their lifestyles. The major task of the group is to discover methods which can change the members individual lifestyles. 
[talking background]
 I used to grind my teeth alot. 
[laughter]
 
[background]
 You mean know what I mean? I used to become really disgusted with myself. Okay. Depression 
[unclear]
. Well, the only time I became depressed was when I wake up after 8 days of 
[?]
 binge and ah After sleeping for a couple days I wake up and ah, I was in need of some more and then I ah, briefly look at myself, stand back and look at myself and I really disliked what I saw. OK ,what did you see? That's what I am trying to get at. I saw myself wasting, you know. I was wasting myself. I didn't like what I saw. To get away from that I'd, I'd have to go out and get some more supplies. 
At this particular point in time what we'll work on specifically is the way he's oriented his, himself to the realities he was dealing with OK. I want to know how he looks at the world. Ah, I'm a little, I'm a little concerned with this particular fella. In the sense that he's got a well structured defensive system and I've seen this. 
Whether or not we will be able to get inside his head so to speak, whether or not we'll get him to trust us, to allow us to get inside his head and start dealing with some of that. I really don't know. I suspect that the rapport is there. I think I think we can do that. He's going to have a very difficult time understanding his limitations. 
[background speaker]
 If I can put it that way. He's never going to be a brain surgeon and I don't really think he knows that. He's got some very unrealistic expectations about himself and his life and ah he appears to have a great deal of anger, a great deal of anger directed at. And I'm not specifically sure who yet. This is what the group is about. And we'll look for the resolution of that anger and we'll look for some realistic expectations. 
Goals that he can set for himself and realistic ways to achieve those goals. So later, when he hits the streets he doesn't get frustrated and he doesn't jump on his hog and go over and smack somebody you see. When you look at these other people, do see yourself? Sure sure. I mean that's what the tale of two tony's is all about right. I mean my name is Tony Lorenz. OK Earl Anthony. 
And Tony Payton and I believe that Tony and I had developed a very strong relationship and you know he's carrying so my guts around with him right now. And I think I'm carrying some of his guts and I think we're getting, if not already, we're we're very very close friends. I never thought that you know 
[?]
 we would come to even, we can be compatible all. Yeah I remember that. And Jesus, you really hated my guts. 
[second speaker]
 storming out of your office. This man has got to be crazy. Yeah. What's that about again. I remember the action but I can't remember what would must ta. I would I wasn't familiar with your approach you know. All the programs that I have been affliated with was behavior oriented and I was just behaviorism, as you know. Yeah I know. You know Skinner. He's OK if you want to be a machine. If you want to deal with humans, yeah. 
It's become more personal and begin to deal with the experiencial differences. Which we based program on, you based the program on. One of the things about the chemical dependency program is that it was set up the way I just said. Ah, the goals were set down, certain things are done, the men are followed through and followup is done when their out in the streets and I think that's an excellent idea. I feel it's a very good program. 
You guys come into the group and let's be realistic, especially in Chem 1. They're coming in either for a map contract. They're coming in as a parole shot to get out of the institution some way they can program for the parole board. They're coming in for a lot of reasons but I found very few come in so they can do something about their drug habits. OK, they're not ready to do that. 
So all right, what can I say to them while I'm talking about drugs which may stimulate a thought in their head that says, hey, I don't have to come to prison anymore I don't have to be here. I don't have to go out rob and shoot; maybe even kill somebody. I can go out and live a pretty productive life but you know what's wrong. I don't know where I fit in. I don't know how everything fits together. I don't know why the laws are the way they are. I don't know how people think. 
So these are some of the things we get into about the thinking process, the defensive systems, psychological defensive system, game playing, how the laws work. It isn't really it's chemicals and everything relates to chemicals. But the point is they're also getting, if I have to say a lesson in life. A lesson that I learned, 14 years ago well over the last 14 years really because I was myself you see in a prison at the maximum security, at the reformatory. Good old 207797, Lorenz. 
And came in with some of the similar difficulties these guys are coming through with. And found myself in a position when I was released. Look buddy, either you better make it or you know, you're going back. And I almost did go back. So but I had some good help with that, I had a good support system. Thank God for that or I'd probably still be doing time. The Chemical Dependency Program is being presented in an environment that is not ideal. 
And I think that the men that go through it learn a lot. If they keep their ears open and listen. But ah, all of the other pressures will interfere with that learning. Well I believe rehabilitation, ah. The fellows and I always, I call them fellows too. We sit down and we talk and I always say I believe rehabilitation has to start within. 
Either you want to be rehabilitated or you don't and if you don't want any help there's not going to be any anything available for you because you don't want to start with. Are there some people who don't belong in society? Don't belong outside these walls. Well, of course not. Sure they belong to society. There's no one that I feel belongs away from society. This is a society here, a smaller community but that's exactly what it is. This is no different than the streets. 
The only thing is missing here ah women and the ability to do with you with would like to do. But other than that, you still dealing with people and it's something you have to learn to do in these laws and out these laws. You have to learn to do that. And some men have not learned to do that. When you get out now? I should be released in December, the 1st of December. Will you go back into a community? Will you be through with your heroin addiction? As far as I'm concerned, yes. 
This I know for sure. What's going to happen when you get out? What kind of person are you going to be? I wish I knew. Because the day to day life here, changes you from day to day. You can be anxiety stricken one day and relieved the next day. As far as the problems that amount daily, I have a wife and child and it's difficult for them as well as me. 
And anxiety, ah continuous depression and regression that I'm going through makes me think that am I going to be a husband, am I going to be a father when I get out. Or am I just going to be another victim and a scapegoat for the administration, for the division of correction. Do you believe in rehabilitation in this kind of environment? No I don't. Why? Well first of all, rehabilitation around here is a dirty word. 
When you talk about rehabilitation, that that assumes that people have beendebilitated, whatever that means. No, I don't . It's, the education that's given here is good, the vocational instruction that's given here is good, but ah, they could be a lot better. You give a man a trait, but if he doesn't change his lifestyle to some degree, that's not going to resolve the problem. And we don't claim to be a panacea. 
And I know we do have our problems and we don't bat 100 percent, but neither does the public school bat 100 percent, Neither do our churches bat 100 percent. And ah I don't know why we're expected. to bat a 100 percent. Batting100 percent for Tony Peyton means getting a job as a chemical counselor. We followed Tony to Winnebago Mental Health Institute, where he interviewed for drug counselor job with the Tellurian community, a long term treatment program for drug addicts. 
Would it be possible for you to get a driver's license at some time in the future do you think? With permission of my parole agent. Quite sure by being employed. Tony was offered a counselor position but due to low salary and relocation requirements, refused to accept it. Tony has been offered other positions and has had other job interviews but remains unemployed. When he will accept employment is not clear. 
In my experience and I have had opportunities to take men out on for job interviews we find that and I work closely with the job service throughout the state here and we find that, you know men can get in interview for jobs that sort of thing, in the job market is there it's it's not really as big a problem. My own opinion is I think that's a myth among the men and institutions that they will argue that well, they can't get employment. It's true I'm sure in some areas are close out to them. 
We began this program by asking a question about drug addicts in prison. We have raised other issues about what prison life is like; about what staff and inmates have to endure in this system and specifically, whether or not a rehabilitation program like the Chemical Dependency Program can be effective in the prison environment. Prisons are places of punishment, constructed and maintained by society for the deposit of society's rejects. They're also supposed to be places for rehabilitation. 
And yet as noted penologist, Robert Martinson concludes prisons fail miserably in the rehabilitation process. Where then does the answer lie? Perhaps each one of us, is in some way responsible. A man comes outta of here, outta anywhere in a correctional system, he comes out. You've got a stigma. There's no doubt about it. You're a felon. If he goes to a place for a job and I go to a place. Nine times out of 10 I'm going to get the job. He's not and it's hard. 
A long long time ago a man told me something. A resident told me something and I laughed. I thought it was pretty funny but it's very true. It's when you leave here, you either get a job or you pull a job.