Another major shake up in the Democratic primary for
governor as Mandela Barnes drops out. How does this
change the race, and what are the remaining
candidates saying as they make their closing pitches
to voters? This is inside Wisconsin politics.
I'm Shawn Johnson here with my colleagues Anya van
Wagtendonk Zac Schultz and
Rich Kremer in Eau Claire. Hey, everyone. Hello. So
this Democratic primary for
governor couldn't get any Wilder. Let's see. Let's go
through the candidates here. David Crowley drops out.
Sarah Rodriguez drops out. David Crowley drops back in.
We now have Mandela Barnes dropping out of the race.
Some pretty big names there. Anya what happened?
>> I mean, I will give a little behind the scenes
intrigue for our viewers. We taped a whole different
show right before this talking about the debate.
And we will get into that later. And we got the news
in our earpieces that Mandela Barnes had dropped
out, so he released a video on social media and
interestingly, you know, doesn't endorse another
candidate, looked pretty dejected and essentially
said, we all can tell the writing is on the wall of
who the nominee is going to be. I assume he is alluding
to Francesca Hong, who is just carrying all these
polls. And he said, you know, the number one thing
to do is to beat Tom Tiffany. So it was not a
ringing endorsement. It did not seem like an
impassioned sort of choice to to step down, but
certainly some some breaking news. You know,
we're less than two weeks out from primary day.
>> Yeah. We got to tell you, we're recording this on a
Thursday afternoon. So by the time you watch it or
hear it, you may know more about this story than we do
right at this moment. We can tell you right now from
the Journal Sentinel, the decisions by the Barnes
camp, they said, came amid reporting into allegations
that Barnes was taking advantage of his role in
the party to have sexual encounters with young adult
women. We also read from Politico. The announcement
comes as Democratic officials in the state
brace for damaging media reports. So, I mean, Zac,
there are different circumstances under which a
candidate can drop out. It can be received in
different ways. How would you characterize this one?
>> Well, this is different from past episodes,
including the flip side of this, when Ben Mandela
Barnes took advantage of this in 2022 in his Senate
run Senate run, when the other opponents in that
primary dropped out and they dropped out gracefully,
saying the only way at that time for them to win the
nomination would be to go negative and hurt the party.
And they decided not to do that. And they were
rewarded for that as being team players down the road.
Sarah Godlewski was seen examples of this.
Almost two decades ago, Scott Walker was going to
run for governor in 2006, party officials said, hey,
why don't you clear the field for Mark green? He
did. And then he was the nominee in 2010 when party
officials remembered he was graceful about that. So on
one hand, it could be seen as Mandela Barnes seeing
the writing on the wall. He wasn't going to win. But he
has a future in Democratic politics in Wisconsin. That
would be the normal way to look at this as saying,
well, there's lots of future races he could run
for. But then when you combine this with the
reporting that we're hearing in the rumors that
have been running around circles for quite a while
now, it doesn't have that same tone to it. So this
looks more of getting ahead of the damaging news that
could be dropping less. Graham Platner in the East
Coast Senate race and more of. Just keep your head
down and get out of the way so it becomes less of a
distraction. And he's forced to bow out
disgracefully as opposed to bowing out on his own terms.
>> Yeah. You know, you alluded to there. But in
his message, he did not say Francesca Hong name. He
didn't say, I'm dropping out because she's the
frontrunner, and that's good. He didn't say, I'm
dropping out. And I support a challenger because he's
kind of had some fights with them recently. Rich,
you reported on Mandela Barnes this campaign, and
in 2022, he entered this race and presented himself
as the frontrunner. And it seemed like that sort of
slowly, slowly slipped away during this campaign. And
now this quite a shocking arc to his story this year.
In terms of name recognition, he did enter the race with
more than any of the other candidates, including
Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany. And that was
because of the 2022 Senate loss to Ron Johnson. It was
a close race, but and there was a lot of advertising.
So his name got around. But that race really hurt him
also, beyond whatever is going to be reported or is
being reported at this moment about any
improprieties. He he was damaged from that Senate
loss to Ron Johnson among Democrats. Even before he
jumped into the race for governor, there was an op
ed that had former Lieutenant Governor Barbara
Lawton, a Democrat that is very involved in the party,
said that he shouldn't get in the race, that he's a
proven he's proven that he he can't win statewide,
etc. So there was that. And then we started seeing in
the earlier days of this, you know, gubernatorial
primary among the Democrats where people were dropping
out. They weren't endorsing Barnes like they did in
2022. So that was a signal. Then Governor Evers
endorsed someone besides Barnes, who, you know,
Barnes and Evers served together, for years. So
that was a sign. And now here we are. It's really
been just a, a really interesting ride for Barnes.
>> So his departure kind of leaves the race in some
ways where it was, where there seems to be this
growing consensus out there that this is Francesca Hong
race to lose. She is a democratic socialist, which
is sort of defined this campaign. She was asked
about her views at this week's debate. Let's give a
listen to what she had to say.
>> What democratic socialism is, is a form of
government that puts working class people first.
That puts work first. The policies that we have been
working on, permanent affordability, has broad
bipartisan support in every corner of the state.
>> Ana you've covered her campaign. You profiled her
for Wisconsin Public Radio. How is she presenting her
brand of politics to primary voters and also
potentially critics as this primary closes out?
>> Yeah, I think she's been really consistent, not just
throughout this campaign, but throughout her
political career. She was a member of the Democratic
Socialist Caucus in the Assembly. She's running as
a democratic socialist on the Democratic ticket. And
so you've seen that a lot in her policy positions. I
think a little bit what we saw on the debate stage was
her trying to nuance some of that, perhaps for a more
general election, again, as she is this kind of runaway
favorite at the moment. I saw some criticism actually
from national DSA members on social media who were
saying essentially, oh, she's not socialist enough,
but I think she understands that there is going to be a
pretty ready made line of attack from Republicans
based on some of her past statements based on calling
for defunding the police, based on aligning with
certain, you know, sort of far left, more like
agitated sort of online figures that that gives
them easy things to kind of clip, which can really kind
of be hard to oppose from a more kind of nuanced
position. And so I think we saw her on the debate stage,
kind of trying out some of these more, bitable,
clippable ways of approaching her politics.
>> Yeah. Part of the question that led to that
answer there was, hey, the Democratic Socialists of
America stand for getting rid of prisons, getting rid
of the Senate. Are you with them? And she said she
didn't agree with them on everything. But I do kind
of sense from her a pivot toward the general election
in terms of the way that she's answering these
questions. You know, on, I don't know, you name it,
tax policy on defund the police. You know, what
stood out to you? >> She's definitely
nuancing those positions because in, in politics, if
you're explaining, you're losing that that phrase has
been around for a long time. So she's trying to explain
to general election voters that she's not that kind of
socialist. She's a democratic socialist
because Republicans are comparing her to Venezuela.
I mean, that's that's Tom Tiffany's line of attack
that I heard on Tuesday night during the debate. I
was covering one of his events, and he's saying,
well, if you want to know about socialism, you just
have to look at Venezuela when they're eating the
animals and they're eating their shirts and there's
nothing available for anybody. And that's what's
coming to Wisconsin. If you look at Francesca Hong,
that's what you're going to hear from them. So her
trying to go more in the lines of the old Milwaukee
Socialists, like the sewer socialists, they were
called of like, let's work on infrastructure and
public schools and the public good, the public
welfare. She's trying to get ahead of some of those
attacks and explain that's where her socialist
policies lie less in the international communist
socialist stuff that we hear from the countries
that fall apart, that claim to be socialist.
>> And rich. You covered the debate she was asked
about. I mean, everybody there on that debate stage
was saying, let's tax millionaires to pay for
stuff in state government. She got a little more
specific than others, and yet it seemed like
potentially an incomplete answer based on her record.
>> Yeah. That's right. Her her website has all kinds
of very specific numbers. And also she's been in the
assembly for some time now, and she's taken a lot of
votes. She's introduced a lot of legislation. So on
the debate stage, essentially she was saying,
well, for millionaires, it'd be a 1% tax increase
to something like 8.6% versus, you know, whatever
it is now. So she said that, but right away online
Democrats even were saying, well, you know, actually
she's got a plan to, create a new tax bracket and set
it at 17 point something percent. Which is true.
That was part of a plan she put out in, in the
legislature. So she, she talked really generally
about it. And, so then others had to go and dig up
what she said in the past. >> Yeah. We did mention
last week that we were going to wait for another
story to develop this police shooting in Madison.
And you've heard all the candidates for governor
come out and say, you know, we need to have a swift
investigation of that. Zac, I think it's fair to say
that Francesca Hong response to the shooting
was certainly the most attention getting. She went
out to the site of the shooting with a bullhorn
and called it an execution. What is she saying now? And,
you know, why did she use that word in her words?
>> Well, she was asked during the debate, would
you use would you make the same statement as governor?
And her answer was no, because the governor has a
bigger, bigger megaphone and essentially alluding
that wouldn't be appropriate for the
governor to make that statement. What's
interesting is you're supposed to campaign how
you would govern. And she did make that statement as
a candidate only a few weeks away from a primary.
And the video of her doing it, the crowd is clearly
trying to goad her into using the word murder. And
she at that moment takes a pause and then says,
execution. So she was even calibrating what she was
saying in that moment. This wasn't as much of an off
the cuff statement as you might think. When you cover
her in speeches. She is very measured in her in her
thought and her speech. She pauses before she answers a
question she's thinking about. It's not just
letting the words fly like we see on social media
sometimes with some politicians, and then worry
about retracting it later. So for her to use that word
was a deliberate, intentional thing. And then
to say, well, I wouldn't, as governor does, call into
question like, what is the line, then why use it now
in this case and not? And we know it will be used
against her. Tom Tiffany is already talking about that.
They're attacking the because the street where
the shooting took place is still shut down by
protesters saying that Madison needs to get
control of the streets and that as governor, he would
obviously have that street open by now. So they're
going to use this against her as a candidate,
assuming that she wins this primary. And the question
is, how does she continue explaining those statements
election voters? >> Let's talk about David
Crowley, Milwaukee County's executive who got back in
this race as the Francesca Hong alternative. And I got
to think that Mandela Barnes departure from this
race potentially changes the calculus for him. You
know, Rich, what were we hearing from, you know,
David Crowley as it relates to Francesca Hong up to
this point in the race? And, you know, has it been
catching on? Is there is there a sign that this
theory that Crowley supporters had is actually
working? >> Well, yeah, the, the
claim that we've heard from David Crowley and some of
the other Democratic candidates is that the
Republican Governors Association is essentially
trying to get hang elected, during the primary so that
it would be easier for Tom Tiffany to defeat her. So
that was the line going into it. And they, the. I
lost it. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I
will say one thing about those, those ads that you
mentioned, the Republican ads, I think they are kind
of doing their, their serving two goals right now
for Republicans. They're kind of getting bang for
their buck in a couple of ways. I do think there's a
pretty strong case to be made that they were there
to prop up. Francesca Hong, they're saying that she's a
very liberal candidate in these liberal media markets,
but I think now Republicans do view her as the general
election candidate in the way that they're talking
about her. So they are kind of getting a head start on
these attacks in some way. Ana, David Crowley, and
Mandela Barnes were kind of going at it in as their
candidacies progressed in this race, as Mandela
Barnes kind of felt like David Crowley had blocked
his path. Now that Mandela Barnes is out of the way,
is there a boost coming for Crowley?
>> Yeah. I mean, you know, it is possible that, among
other concerns, Mandela Barnes felt snubbed by the
fact that Governor Tony Evers backed Crowley and
not him. He was his lieutenant governor. And so
we saw barbs, I mean, like almost schoolyard barbs on
social media, primarily coming from, Barnes towards
Crowley. But then Crowley would sort of respond in
kind. So really like a really kind of, it felt
like bad blood between them. One of the arguments that
the Barnes camp has been making as other candidates
have dropped out is we will absorb those votes. And so
now part of the question is, where will these remaining
sort of Barnes votes go? Will they go further left
towards Hong? Will they go further towards the center,
towards Crowley? And of course, I haven't checked
the numbers recently, but as of last week, 100,000
absentee ballots had already been turned in. I
imagine that number is much higher now. So there's also
the question of like of the remaining voters who
haven't cast their ballots. Some of them are undecided.
But those who were leaning towards Barnes now were are
they going to go, especially if, you know,
these allegations start to come out and it becomes an
even more chaotic news cycle that distracts from
the actual sort of meat of the campaign,
>> Rich, you know, real quick on that law, on those
ballots, there was a lawsuit filed to try to get
them counted. A judge ruled on that this week. What
does that mean for those absentee ballots?
>> Well, yeah, the judge, dismissed or denied to
issue an injunction, essentially blocking the
Wisconsin Elections Commission guidance, saying
that you cannot, if you have sent in your absentee
ballot, you cannot ask for it to be spoiled and get a
new one. So essentially what that means is that
people who have already cast ballots for, you know,
Lieutenant Governor Sara Rodriguez Mandela Barnes,
Missy Hughes, they're essentially out of luck, at
this point. So unless that changes, unless this is
rushed through an appeal process up to the Supreme
Court, and the Supreme Court makes a ruling before
August 11th, it kind of seems like those votes will
be counted, but they won't go anywhere.
>> Zac, we had a couple polls out this week. They
both showed Francesca Hong with at least a 20 point
lead. You know, one of them showed Mandela Barnes
Marquette showed Mandela, Barnes and second David
Crowley down at about 7%. But in the Marquette poll,
we're looking at a third of voters still undecided. Now,
Mandela Barnes is out of the race. You got all those
undecided voters. David Crowley is still there.
Could this race shake up and change in the closing
days? >> Well, every time we say
no, we're proven wrong. It does get shaken up by
larger events than what we probably could have
predicted on this show. But the question is, is there
enough room for anyone to gain enough ground to catch
the lead that Francesca Hong looks like she has?
Just talking about those absentee ballots that have
been cast, they're not getting counted back. The
question will be, once this race is all over, will the
margin of votes that Mandela Barnes and
Rodriguez received add up to the amount that the
second place person took? Or will they have made a
difference in some spoiling manner? That will be
interesting math to see, but by then we'll have a
winner. to have a a massive
comeback here by one of these candidates coming
back to, I guess, edge out Francesca Hong at the end,
or else we're going to have the most interesting
governor's race in the country this November
between a democratic socialist and somebody that
Democrats will paint as an election denier in Tom
Tiffany. So get ready for a lot of money and ads to
come to your state of Wisconsin, which we are
very used to. That's all the time we have for today.
Thanks for joining us. This has been inside Wisconsin
politics. Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin. Org
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