1 00:00:01,235 --> 00:00:03,437 of candidates in Wisconsin's Democratic 2 00:00:03,504 --> 00:00:06,773 primary for governor gets smaller as the campaign ad 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,377 war heats up and the vice president visits Wisconsin. 4 00:00:10,444 --> 00:00:14,014 This is inside Wisconsin politics. 5 00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:17,384 I'm Shawn Johnson here with Anya van 6 00:00:17,451 --> 00:00:19,753 here with Anya van Wagtendonk and Zac Schultz. 7 00:00:19,820 --> 00:00:22,489 Hey. >> So we've been talking 8 00:00:22,923 --> 00:00:25,792 about this as a crowded Democratic primary for a 9 00:00:25,859 --> 00:00:29,363 long time now. And we had seven Democratic candidates 10 00:00:29,429 --> 00:00:31,899 just a few weeks ago. Then that was narrowed down to 11 00:00:31,965 --> 00:00:35,435 six as Missy Hughes got out of the race. David Crowley 12 00:00:35,502 --> 00:00:38,038 this week gets out of the race. Now we're down to 13 00:00:38,105 --> 00:00:42,409 five. Zac, is it still crowded or is this race 14 00:00:42,476 --> 00:00:44,745 shifted to you in a meaningful way? 15 00:00:44,811 --> 00:00:47,481 >> I think the crowd it depends more on the lanes 16 00:00:47,548 --> 00:00:50,017 of what we're talking about. I think there's clearly a 17 00:00:50,083 --> 00:00:52,653 progressive lane. There's clearly a more 18 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:55,255 establishment center, government lane. And then 19 00:00:55,322 --> 00:00:57,424 there's a question of if there's room in between for 20 00:00:57,491 --> 00:01:00,294 any of the rest of them to kind of stake their own 21 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,429 area, or if they're competing for those two 22 00:01:02,496 --> 00:01:05,766 groups. But there clearly is this sense, as the two 23 00:01:05,832 --> 00:01:07,968 candidates have dropped out, that have now endorsed Sara 24 00:01:08,035 --> 00:01:10,604 Rodriguez, that there is an establishment going on and 25 00:01:10,671 --> 00:01:13,106 that fits with this national theme that we're 26 00:01:13,173 --> 00:01:15,909 seeing of establishment Dems worrying about 27 00:01:15,976 --> 00:01:18,078 progressive Dems potentially undermining 28 00:01:18,145 --> 00:01:21,481 chances to win seats in November, versus 29 00:01:21,548 --> 00:01:23,951 progressives who are saying, no, we are the ones that 30 00:01:24,017 --> 00:01:26,186 are going to win these primaries and win in 31 00:01:26,253 --> 00:01:29,356 November, get behind us as we keep going forward. So 32 00:01:29,423 --> 00:01:31,925 there's definitely a shrinkage there, but it's 33 00:01:31,992 --> 00:01:34,361 almost a shrinkage into lanes as opposed to these 34 00:01:34,428 --> 00:01:36,797 individual candidates. >> How do you see those 35 00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:39,733 lanes? I mean, I think just a few weeks ago, I was kind 36 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,603 of having a hard time putting the candidates into 37 00:01:42,669 --> 00:01:45,005 different lanes or buckets, however you want to do it. 38 00:01:45,072 --> 00:01:47,741 What are the lanes now as you see it? 39 00:01:47,808 --> 00:01:50,777 >> Yeah. I think Zac sort of hit the nail on the head 40 00:01:50,844 --> 00:01:52,713 with establishment versus progressive. And one way 41 00:01:52,779 --> 00:01:54,848 that we're seeing that is when these candidates are 42 00:01:54,915 --> 00:01:56,917 dropping out, that they are endorsing other candidates. 43 00:01:56,984 --> 00:01:59,753 There's a world in which you drop out and you say, I 44 00:01:59,820 --> 00:02:03,056 love my party and I all I want is for a Democrat to 45 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:05,826 win. And David Crowley did that kind of initially in 46 00:02:05,893 --> 00:02:07,728 his original announcement that he was stepping down. 47 00:02:07,794 --> 00:02:09,530 He didn't immediately endorse anyone. He said, 48 00:02:09,596 --> 00:02:11,965 the most important thing is just that somebody beats 49 00:02:12,032 --> 00:02:14,234 Tom Tiffany in the fall and then this morning came out 50 00:02:14,301 --> 00:02:16,970 and endorsed Sara Rodriguez. So I think that's a sign 51 00:02:17,037 --> 00:02:19,173 that people are kind of choosing teams and trying 52 00:02:19,239 --> 00:02:23,410 to say, who do I think is the best ability for 53 00:02:23,477 --> 00:02:25,612 Democrats to win in November? Is it the sort of 54 00:02:25,679 --> 00:02:28,015 Hong progressive lane? Is it the Rodriguez, Moore 55 00:02:28,081 --> 00:02:31,318 sort of establishment lane? >> Nobody that I've heard 56 00:02:31,385 --> 00:02:34,721 has come out and said, well, we got to stop Francesca 57 00:02:34,788 --> 00:02:36,757 Hong, you know, but we've seen this debate that 58 00:02:36,823 --> 00:02:38,759 you've referenced at the national level where you 59 00:02:38,825 --> 00:02:41,428 have sort of the national establishment, Democrats 60 00:02:41,495 --> 00:02:46,133 fighting against this, you know, Democratic Socialist 61 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,370 caucus that's growing. Is there an unspoken we got to 62 00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:53,807 stop Francesca Hong in all this, or are we making that 63 00:02:53,874 --> 00:02:55,943 up? Are we looking for conflict where there is 64 00:02:56,009 --> 00:02:58,111 none here in Wisconsin? >> I don't think it would 65 00:02:58,178 --> 00:03:01,081 be wise for anyone to say that out loud from the 66 00:03:01,148 --> 00:03:03,116 Democratic Party, because there's a very good chance 67 00:03:03,183 --> 00:03:06,053 that Hong can win this, and then they have to unite 68 00:03:06,119 --> 00:03:09,022 behind her. So that is the the other half of this game 69 00:03:09,089 --> 00:03:11,925 is you can drop out and you can endorse someone that 70 00:03:11,992 --> 00:03:14,127 you would prefer, but then you still want to create a 71 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:16,997 sense of party unity that that is still the goal is 72 00:03:17,064 --> 00:03:19,833 for the Democrats in their minds, is to beat Tom 73 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:21,735 Tiffany. And whether that is Francesca Hong or 74 00:03:21,802 --> 00:03:24,905 whether that's Sara or Brennan or Roys or 75 00:03:24,972 --> 00:03:27,140 anyone that's still in this race at this point. They 76 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:30,043 have to worry about that in the long run. So in the 77 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:32,946 short run, we're not seeing some of the disunity of 78 00:03:33,013 --> 00:03:35,148 attacking each other. That was a potential with a more 79 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:37,150 crowded race. There's still time. There's still million 80 00:03:37,217 --> 00:03:39,186 dollar ad buys coming up. Kelda Roys just announced 81 00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:41,955 an hour ago that she's got 1.2 million that she's 82 00:03:42,022 --> 00:03:44,157 going to announce, and she's going to spend every 83 00:03:44,224 --> 00:03:46,994 last penny of it. She's not going to drop out of this 84 00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:49,963 race. And she has a history in some of these big 85 00:03:50,030 --> 00:03:51,965 competitive elections of going a little contrarian 86 00:03:52,032 --> 00:03:54,868 towards the end. So I don't think it's going to be all 87 00:03:54,935 --> 00:03:57,070 quiet and rosy from from here until August. There's 88 00:03:57,137 --> 00:03:59,806 going to be some fireworks as they try and create that 89 00:03:59,873 --> 00:04:02,843 last separation to over the 30 to 35% that may 90 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:06,246 be needed to win. >> Anya, you were all set 91 00:04:06,313 --> 00:04:09,583 to do this profile of David Crowley, which, you know, 92 00:04:09,650 --> 00:04:12,719 it just sounds like it's not going to happen at this 93 00:04:12,786 --> 00:04:16,456 point, but can you kind of talk through why it didn't 94 00:04:16,523 --> 00:04:19,560 work out for his campaign from your perspective? I 95 00:04:19,626 --> 00:04:23,263 mean, there's a world where you can imagine David 96 00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:25,966 Crowley being seen as one of the frontrunners in this 97 00:04:26,033 --> 00:04:28,101 race, and it never felt like that way as this 98 00:04:28,168 --> 00:04:30,404 campaign unfolded. >> Yeah, one of the ways 99 00:04:30,470 --> 00:04:32,606 that he was positioning himself throughout was 100 00:04:32,673 --> 00:04:34,541 essentially, you know, I have the cities on lock. I 101 00:04:34,608 --> 00:04:37,711 am a Milwaukee native. I have been able to work with 102 00:04:37,778 --> 00:04:40,848 the suburbs. I represent a county that straddles 103 00:04:40,914 --> 00:04:43,050 suburban and urban areas, and I can hold the line on 104 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,954 rural areas. So he was essentially making this 105 00:04:47,020 --> 00:04:49,089 this kind of statewide candidate for many people. 106 00:04:49,156 --> 00:04:51,925 One of the things that came up while I was trying to 107 00:04:51,992 --> 00:04:54,161 write this profile that is no longer, you know, 108 00:04:54,228 --> 00:04:57,164 whenever we write profiles, pour one out for my having 109 00:04:57,231 --> 00:04:59,933 a little bit free time this weekend. But you know, you 110 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,237 always look for both supporters and critics. And 111 00:05:03,303 --> 00:05:06,139 I could not find a critic of David Crowley. I called 112 00:05:06,206 --> 00:05:08,742 people who have been on the record criticizing his, you 113 00:05:08,809 --> 00:05:10,911 know, his policies and some of how he's handled, for 114 00:05:10,978 --> 00:05:12,946 example, the lapse of health insurance at the 115 00:05:13,013 --> 00:05:15,148 county level. And even his most vocal critics were 116 00:05:15,215 --> 00:05:18,018 like, I really like him as a person. And I think he'd 117 00:05:18,085 --> 00:05:20,153 work really well in Madison. And these are like 118 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:21,989 conservative Republicans that I'm calling. And so I 119 00:05:22,055 --> 00:05:24,992 think that was kind of where he fit in. Is this 120 00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:28,128 really kind of affable person who, who gets along 121 00:05:28,195 --> 00:05:31,031 well with who plays nice with others. And I think in 122 00:05:31,098 --> 00:05:33,200 a certain way, what we're seeing is that maybe that 123 00:05:33,267 --> 00:05:36,036 is not as appealing to voters, that voters are mad. 124 00:05:36,103 --> 00:05:38,238 And things are really hard for a lot of people right 125 00:05:38,305 --> 00:05:41,041 now. And maybe they want somebody who seems like a 126 00:05:41,108 --> 00:05:44,044 little bit of a fighter, maybe like a little bit of 127 00:05:44,111 --> 00:05:46,847 a f you to, to some of the, the institutions that they 128 00:05:46,914 --> 00:05:48,882 are not feeling very happy with right now. 129 00:05:48,949 --> 00:05:51,418 >> So I think Sara Rodriguez would obviously 130 00:05:51,485 --> 00:05:54,555 say this is great for me. He's endorsing me. Did you 131 00:05:54,621 --> 00:05:57,591 notice that this is a unquestionably good news 132 00:05:57,658 --> 00:06:01,628 for me? Is there a case that this is good for 133 00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:03,797 Mandela Barnes? His campaign says, yes, we 134 00:06:03,864 --> 00:06:05,666 benefit the most. He's willing to show. 135 00:06:05,732 --> 00:06:08,001 >> It already making that case and everyone's inboxes 136 00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:10,904 that will listen. And I think there's a rational 137 00:06:10,971 --> 00:06:12,840 argument for especially for those that kind of follow 138 00:06:12,906 --> 00:06:15,642 this from a distance, that put people into those other 139 00:06:15,709 --> 00:06:18,145 broader categories. If we have two African American 140 00:06:18,212 --> 00:06:20,514 men with Milwaukee roots that have connections to 141 00:06:20,581 --> 00:06:23,016 that part of the state, deep establishment ties to 142 00:06:23,083 --> 00:06:25,085 winning lots of local elections there, that you 143 00:06:25,152 --> 00:06:27,821 could argue that some people may say, well, 144 00:06:27,888 --> 00:06:30,424 that's a natural transition. If you liked David Crowley, 145 00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:33,126 you should also like Mandela Barnes. They don't 146 00:06:33,193 --> 00:06:35,529 have the same electoral history. They don't have 147 00:06:35,596 --> 00:06:39,566 the same record of working in Madison. They have 148 00:06:39,633 --> 00:06:41,401 challenged Mandela. Barnes has challenged members 149 00:06:41,468 --> 00:06:43,504 within his own party. He's run a statewide contest. 150 00:06:43,570 --> 00:06:46,106 David Crowley is known for working more with 151 00:06:46,173 --> 00:06:48,509 Republicans as part of his pitch is I've worked with 152 00:06:48,575 --> 00:06:50,677 people to help rural Wisconsin with his bills 153 00:06:50,744 --> 00:06:55,482 for for local issues. So there's an argument at 1 154 00:06:55,549 --> 00:06:58,051 Optic that this absolutely should help Mandela Barnes. 155 00:06:58,118 --> 00:07:01,321 And then there is the the other end of it of who if 156 00:07:01,388 --> 00:07:05,526 there is 5% that Crowley had in the state, were they 157 00:07:05,592 --> 00:07:09,329 looking at him as more of that centrist candidate 158 00:07:09,396 --> 00:07:11,431 government work and won't be too crazy or too loud? 159 00:07:11,498 --> 00:07:14,501 More of a Tony Evers Steil or shucks, let's all work 160 00:07:14,568 --> 00:07:16,503 together and make things function. Or were they 161 00:07:16,570 --> 00:07:19,406 looking at him as more of a. We need someone from that 162 00:07:19,473 --> 00:07:22,442 part of the state to fight for us. And that goes back 163 00:07:22,509 --> 00:07:24,478 to that original argument we've been having. So we're 164 00:07:24,545 --> 00:07:27,548 his 5%. Those. Let's get it done or let's fight. I 165 00:07:27,614 --> 00:07:29,116 think that could determine where some of those voters 166 00:07:29,183 --> 00:07:31,585 go. >> And I think it's a sign 167 00:07:31,652 --> 00:07:34,521 that this race has kind of flown under the radar this 168 00:07:34,588 --> 00:07:36,790 year, in that we haven't heard people complaining 169 00:07:36,857 --> 00:07:39,693 about, gosh, just being bombarded by all these 170 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,596 political ads. There has not been an advertising 171 00:07:42,663 --> 00:07:45,332 blitz in this race the way that we've seen in, you 172 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:47,734 know, the races for Supreme Court that we're used to by 173 00:07:47,801 --> 00:07:50,838 now, or a November general election campaign. You know, 174 00:07:50,904 --> 00:07:53,674 the kind of place you're going to see in a few 175 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:57,077 months. And so in that context, how does it matter, 176 00:07:57,144 --> 00:07:59,680 I guess, when Sara Rodriguez says, I'm going 177 00:07:59,746 --> 00:08:02,282 to have $1 million ad buy that I'm going to pay for 178 00:08:02,349 --> 00:08:05,519 with my campaign in this sort of, you know, under 179 00:08:05,586 --> 00:08:08,222 the radar race. >> You know, one person I 180 00:08:08,288 --> 00:08:10,724 once spoke to, a political scientist I once spoke to, 181 00:08:10,791 --> 00:08:12,793 kind of explained that money in politics kind of 182 00:08:12,860 --> 00:08:15,529 serves two functions. So there's money as money, 183 00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:18,165 right? Like the thing that you use to buy things and 184 00:08:18,232 --> 00:08:21,134 she has $1 million to spend on this ad, but then it's 185 00:08:21,201 --> 00:08:24,137 also money as a signal, as sort of a signal of your 186 00:08:24,204 --> 00:08:26,306 strength, a signal of, you know, maybe I want other 187 00:08:26,373 --> 00:08:29,142 candidates to kind of back off because I have this in 188 00:08:29,209 --> 00:08:32,112 my bank account. What do you have? And so in this 189 00:08:32,179 --> 00:08:34,214 case, it's kind of that, that twofer where both she 190 00:08:34,281 --> 00:08:37,417 will be able to get a pretty sizable amount of 191 00:08:37,484 --> 00:08:39,953 spread for her money paying directly from her campaign. 192 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,389 But then also it signals to the other candidates, like, 193 00:08:42,456 --> 00:08:45,359 what do you got? Right? And so it kind of, again, is 194 00:08:45,425 --> 00:08:47,561 her kind of establishing that she is a front runner 195 00:08:47,628 --> 00:08:50,364 because she has this money to spend. And so maybe 196 00:08:50,430 --> 00:08:52,499 she's also trying to, you know, sort of intimidate 197 00:08:52,566 --> 00:08:54,434 others who may not have that, right? Like she's 198 00:08:54,501 --> 00:08:56,670 sending the signal of, of come and get me. 199 00:08:56,737 --> 00:08:59,506 >> I kind of wondered if that was a factor in 200 00:08:59,573 --> 00:09:01,508 Crowley dropping out, actually, you know, because 201 00:09:01,575 --> 00:09:03,677 they happened pretty close together. And I imagine a 202 00:09:03,744 --> 00:09:06,380 decision like that builds up more than just overnight. 203 00:09:06,446 --> 00:09:08,382 >> And it came right after the fundraising deadline. 204 00:09:08,448 --> 00:09:10,551 And so it's possible, you know, that campaigns have 205 00:09:10,617 --> 00:09:13,520 their internal goals of like, if we hit X by a 206 00:09:13,587 --> 00:09:15,956 certain date, we're still viable. And one of the 207 00:09:16,023 --> 00:09:18,892 things he said in his drop out was like, it is clear I 208 00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:20,961 will not become the Democratic nominee. And so 209 00:09:21,028 --> 00:09:22,896 clearly there's like a calculus of what makes that 210 00:09:22,963 --> 00:09:26,433 clear. And maybe money was part of it. 211 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,036 got at least $1 million according to her. And she 212 00:09:29,102 --> 00:09:31,705 has this outside group that has been spending money on 213 00:09:31,772 --> 00:09:33,841 her behalf kind of throughout the year. And 214 00:09:33,907 --> 00:09:36,043 they don't have to report their donors and kind of 215 00:09:36,109 --> 00:09:38,879 like the Wild West in terms of fundraising. Zac, the, 216 00:09:38,946 --> 00:09:42,516 the tone of the ad is, well, well, she says a bad word 217 00:09:42,583 --> 00:09:45,285 to start out with. >> There's a bleep off the 218 00:09:45,352 --> 00:09:47,554 top of the ad. And that's obviously very intentional. 219 00:09:47,621 --> 00:09:50,290 They craft these ads with a lot of money spent on the 220 00:09:50,357 --> 00:09:53,260 people writing the ads, speaking to specific 221 00:09:53,327 --> 00:09:55,495 audiences. And I think there's a lot to actually 222 00:09:55,562 --> 00:09:57,397 analyze within the decision of that word alone off the 223 00:09:57,464 --> 00:09:59,132 top. >> I think. 224 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:03,237 first reaction that I have is, this is a sign of the 225 00:10:03,303 --> 00:10:06,006 coarseness of American politics. Since Donald 226 00:10:06,073 --> 00:10:08,375 and the atmosphere more than a decade ago, is that 227 00:10:08,442 --> 00:10:11,078 it's acceptable for your political candidate to use 228 00:10:11,144 --> 00:10:13,680 an expletive in their ad, even if it's bleeped out as 229 00:10:13,747 --> 00:10:16,717 a way of showing their rawness, their 230 00:10:16,783 --> 00:10:19,987 approachability, the way you know, maybe not the 231 00:10:20,053 --> 00:10:22,823 dinner table, but at least at the bar or with friends. 232 00:10:22,890 --> 00:10:25,792 I think there's a sense of that does make them more 233 00:10:25,859 --> 00:10:28,662 real, in the same way that Tony Evers has been let off 234 00:10:28,729 --> 00:10:31,532 the hook time and time again for swearing over and 235 00:10:31,598 --> 00:10:35,536 over, because he seems like this kind old man. And when 236 00:10:35,602 --> 00:10:38,472 he says it, he really means it. And if someone else 237 00:10:38,539 --> 00:10:40,541 says it, oh, that's that's coarse and disgusting. So 238 00:10:40,607 --> 00:10:42,509 it's definitely a change in that atmosphere. But it 239 00:10:42,576 --> 00:10:44,645 also goes back to the original question we have. 240 00:10:44,711 --> 00:10:47,481 This is a nicely themed episode, Shawn, of the 241 00:10:47,548 --> 00:10:50,951 establishment versus the represent the establishment 242 00:10:51,018 --> 00:10:53,086 in the center, she is the lieutenant governor at this 243 00:10:53,153 --> 00:10:56,223 point, but she's the one showing a little more flair, 244 00:10:56,290 --> 00:10:58,425 a little more fight with the words that she's 245 00:10:58,492 --> 00:11:00,561 dropping off the top and talking about. She'll fight 246 00:11:00,627 --> 00:11:03,163 for you. She's definitely reaching out to bring the 247 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:05,999 rest of that Democratic primary audience over to 248 00:11:06,066 --> 00:11:08,869 her to say, I'm not just the person that is the 249 00:11:08,936 --> 00:11:10,604 establishment, and that I'm the sitting lieutenant 250 00:11:10,671 --> 00:11:12,706 governor and the first person to enter the race. 251 00:11:12,773 --> 00:11:14,975 I'm also the person that will swear and fight for 252 00:11:15,042 --> 00:11:17,744 you. The other person who likes to swear a lot in 253 00:11:17,811 --> 00:11:19,847 this race, Francesca Hong, she's got a history of 254 00:11:19,913 --> 00:11:22,883 dropping a few f bombs out there. So I think that 255 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:24,718 shows this broad spectrum and this interest in these 256 00:11:24,785 --> 00:11:26,553 two different categories of voters. 257 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:28,622 >> Yeah. I mean, I'm reminded that Francesca 258 00:11:28,689 --> 00:11:30,924 Hong in I believe her introductory speech in the 259 00:11:30,991 --> 00:11:33,861 assembly dropped an f bomb. And in her final speech in 260 00:11:33,927 --> 00:11:36,830 the Assembly, if you ever had a chance to see that, 261 00:11:36,897 --> 00:11:40,968 she'd just let one linger as she bid farewell to her. 262 00:11:41,034 --> 00:11:43,103 >> Plenty in between. Those weren't the only two. 263 00:11:43,170 --> 00:11:46,073 >> No they're not. I think it's expected. I mean, I 264 00:11:46,139 --> 00:11:48,575 think it's expected that in today's politics right now, 265 00:11:48,642 --> 00:11:52,813 I think Democrats are so mad at President Trump that 266 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,782 you have to show in your ads that you're not just 267 00:11:55,849 --> 00:11:58,585 like an old time Democrat, that you're going to get up 268 00:11:58,652 --> 00:12:00,854 there and fight, fight, fight. I mean, that is the 269 00:12:00,921 --> 00:12:03,590 word. not sort of part of this 270 00:12:04,358 --> 00:12:06,360 establishment that people are so angry with and do 271 00:12:06,426 --> 00:12:09,062 see, as, you know, too moderate or too incremental. 272 00:12:09,129 --> 00:12:12,566 And so they don't want these sort of consultant 273 00:12:12,633 --> 00:12:14,468 polished candidates. They want people who are more 274 00:12:14,535 --> 00:12:17,004 real. That's certainly part of the appeal of Hong. I 275 00:12:17,070 --> 00:12:19,173 keep hearing that from voters who support her, is 276 00:12:19,239 --> 00:12:21,975 that she seems like she is who she's always been. And 277 00:12:22,042 --> 00:12:24,311 the same way that you kind of hear about Bernie 278 00:12:24,378 --> 00:12:26,980 Sanders. And, you know, it's hard this week to talk 279 00:12:27,047 --> 00:12:29,082 about politics without mentioning sort of the 280 00:12:29,149 --> 00:12:31,251 grand platinum situation in Maine. But one of the kind 281 00:12:31,318 --> 00:12:33,921 of series of reactions to that has been now that he's 282 00:12:33,987 --> 00:12:37,157 dropped out, the progressive wing saying, 283 00:12:37,224 --> 00:12:40,427 wanted his politics, if not sort of all of the other 284 00:12:40,494 --> 00:12:42,829 things that went along with it. So they're waiting to 285 00:12:42,896 --> 00:12:45,599 see whether the Democratic Party, if they try to 286 00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:47,701 shoehorn in a more establishment sort of 287 00:12:47,768 --> 00:12:49,770 candidate. And so I think we're seeing these like 288 00:12:49,837 --> 00:12:51,872 real fights. And so Wisconsin, I think, will be 289 00:12:51,939 --> 00:12:54,975 another kind of bellwether, maybe not in the sort of 290 00:12:55,042 --> 00:12:56,610 fireworks and really scandalous way of what's 291 00:12:56,677 --> 00:12:59,379 going on in Maine. But I think that we're having 292 00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:02,182 sort of our own version of that play out right here. 293 00:13:02,249 --> 00:13:04,418 >> Yeah. I mean, I think nationalize or elsewhere 294 00:13:04,484 --> 00:13:07,254 right now, but over the next month, we are going to 295 00:13:07,321 --> 00:13:09,389 have a real debate among Democrats here about what 296 00:13:09,456 --> 00:13:12,826 it means to be their party in 2026. What about Mandela 297 00:13:12,893 --> 00:13:15,262 Barnes? As we kind of look at other advertising in 298 00:13:15,329 --> 00:13:19,233 this race, he is one of the other candidates who at 299 00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:21,134 least threw his own money and threw that outside. 300 00:13:21,201 --> 00:13:23,904 Money has been up on the air, right. 301 00:13:23,971 --> 00:13:26,907 >> He's gotten out there that it's hard to figure 302 00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:30,744 out if he's rerunning his Senate race and living off 303 00:13:30,811 --> 00:13:33,447 that experience of like, I'm the guy you remember 304 00:13:33,514 --> 00:13:35,682 you liked me before I got the most votes of anyone 305 00:13:35,749 --> 00:13:38,652 who's lost a U.S. Senate race. I should have won, 306 00:13:38,719 --> 00:13:41,522 but I was the only one that lost to an incumbent. Or if 307 00:13:41,588 --> 00:13:44,525 he's running a new race, but it doesn't feel like 308 00:13:44,591 --> 00:13:46,493 there's a different message than there was before. So 309 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,395 he's definitely running on that platform. And the 310 00:13:48,462 --> 00:13:50,497 question is, where does he fall within these 311 00:13:50,564 --> 00:13:52,499 frameworks? We've talked about because he's got 312 00:13:52,566 --> 00:13:54,501 establishment history. He's also got very progressive 313 00:13:54,568 --> 00:13:56,703 history. The question is, does he carry through to 314 00:13:56,770 --> 00:14:00,641 voters to say, no, I'm the best of both worlds and or 315 00:14:00,707 --> 00:14:03,577 how much does that loss in the Senate race still 316 00:14:03,644 --> 00:14:06,046 linger over the top of them, as his opponents have used 317 00:14:06,113 --> 00:14:07,948 it against them on the campaign trail? 318 00:14:08,015 --> 00:14:10,717 >> It does seem like when he got into the race, his 319 00:14:10,784 --> 00:14:13,487 message was, I am the frontrunner here. You know, 320 00:14:13,554 --> 00:14:16,623 it's just a matter of time. I am going to set the 321 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:18,759 agenda in this race and I'm focused on November. You're 322 00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:21,895 now starting to see Sara Rodriguez make that same 323 00:14:21,962 --> 00:14:24,431 general argument. Look, these candidates are coming 324 00:14:24,498 --> 00:14:28,769 in endorsing me. The state party at the in the straw 325 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:32,940 polls has been supporting me. But, you know, we don't 326 00:14:33,006 --> 00:14:35,442 know. We don't know. Mandela Barnes did come in 327 00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:37,811 here with actual name recognition that nobody 328 00:14:37,878 --> 00:14:40,414 else could really match. And so we'll find out soon 329 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,982 whether the other candidates have kind of 330 00:14:42,049 --> 00:14:44,685 cracked the consciousness of people who've been on 331 00:14:44,751 --> 00:14:47,254 their summer breaks here. >> Well, and one thing that 332 00:14:47,321 --> 00:14:49,489 should also be noted is that while the Democrats 333 00:14:49,556 --> 00:14:52,226 are kind of working all of this out amongst themselves, 334 00:14:52,292 --> 00:14:54,361 and we are devoting so much airtime to what they're 335 00:14:54,428 --> 00:14:56,530 talking about, Tom Tiffany essentially has the 336 00:14:56,597 --> 00:14:58,599 Republican field to himself. And so he just launched his 337 00:14:58,665 --> 00:15:01,335 own, his, I think, fourth ad campaign. And it shows 338 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:03,937 him having a pancake breakfast. And it's like 339 00:15:04,004 --> 00:15:07,941 this very kind of wholesome, folksy, you know, 340 00:15:08,008 --> 00:15:10,143 All-American. I'm a I'm a normal guy. You betcha. 341 00:15:10,210 --> 00:15:12,946 Right. And because he kind of has the field to himself, 342 00:15:13,013 --> 00:15:15,582 he doesn't need to be kind of parsing those, those 343 00:15:15,649 --> 00:15:17,851 details. And I think it's really good for Republicans 344 00:15:17,918 --> 00:15:20,854 that Democrats are kind of out there splitting hairs 345 00:15:20,921 --> 00:15:24,191 in all of these different ways, splitting donors, 346 00:15:24,258 --> 00:15:26,793 splitting attention while Tom Tiffany can just sort 347 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:29,763 of like have the field to himself. And so I think 348 00:15:29,830 --> 00:15:32,666 we're also going to see a real shift in dynamic after 349 00:15:32,733 --> 00:15:34,735 the primary, because that's when all of these national 350 00:15:34,801 --> 00:15:36,670 Democratic groups, etc. will throw their weight 351 00:15:36,737 --> 00:15:39,139 behind one candidate and see if they can pick up, 352 00:15:39,206 --> 00:15:42,075 you know, whatever that is, six months or six weeks, 353 00:15:42,142 --> 00:15:44,611 eight weeks of momentum. On top of everything that Tom 354 00:15:44,678 --> 00:15:46,513 Tiffany has essentially had since January. 355 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:48,582 >> Yeah, you did see the Democratic Governors 356 00:15:48,649 --> 00:15:50,250 Association through an affiliated group, start 357 00:15:50,317 --> 00:15:52,619 running ads against him this week. But you're right, 358 00:15:52,686 --> 00:15:54,955 he has spent millions of dollars just painting 359 00:15:55,022 --> 00:15:58,225 himself as Mr. Wisconsin love pancakes. Old 360 00:15:58,292 --> 00:16:00,861 Fashioneds just kind of like your neighbor, 361 00:16:00,928 --> 00:16:03,864 basically. What's that? Primary is done. There's 362 00:16:03,931 --> 00:16:05,933 just going to be an onslaught of money, though. 363 00:16:05,999 --> 00:16:08,769 We got to talk about the vice president coming to 364 00:16:08,836 --> 00:16:11,271 Wisconsin. He does that from time to time. Zac, why? 365 00:16:11,338 --> 00:16:13,607 It's not a presidential year. He wasn't in a swing 366 00:16:13,674 --> 00:16:15,509 district. What was he doing here? 367 00:16:15,576 --> 00:16:17,444 >> Well, anytime a Republican comes to 368 00:16:17,511 --> 00:16:19,279 Milwaukee, they're there to raise money. First and 369 00:16:19,346 --> 00:16:21,748 foremost. The difference is he actually held an event 370 00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:24,952 open to the public on top of it during the Bush era, 371 00:16:25,018 --> 00:16:26,453 Republicans coming in constantly. It's just they 372 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,922 held a fundraiser and left town with the money, not 373 00:16:28,989 --> 00:16:31,859 with any ad recognition. But he's still here 374 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:33,393 campaigning. He's campaigning for Tom Tiffany. 375 00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:35,162 He's campaigning for himself. No matter what 376 00:16:35,229 --> 00:16:37,197 Donald Trump thinks, he can't run for president 377 00:16:37,264 --> 00:16:40,133 again. And JD Vance wants to be the presumptive 378 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,003 Republican nominee in 28. No one is beyond looking 379 00:16:43,070 --> 00:16:45,105 two years ahead. That's actually a short window for 380 00:16:45,172 --> 00:16:47,441 them to be looking ahead. So this was entirely 381 00:16:47,508 --> 00:16:49,243 political, no matter what the the platform on the 382 00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:50,744 stage said. >> Yeah, campaigning is 383 00:16:50,811 --> 00:16:53,413 kind of like exercise, right? Like even when you 384 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,582 don't feel like doing it, it seems like candidates 385 00:16:55,649 --> 00:16:57,751 feel like they got to keep coming to these swing 386 00:16:57,818 --> 00:17:00,487 states. Just kind of rinse and repeat. Ana anything in 387 00:17:00,554 --> 00:17:03,390 the message stand out or just the visit as a whole 388 00:17:03,457 --> 00:17:06,126 stand out to you about why JD Vance is here now. 389 00:17:06,193 --> 00:17:08,662 >> I mean, yeah, I think you can't in an election 390 00:17:08,729 --> 00:17:10,764 year ignore Wisconsin or other swing states. I think 391 00:17:10,831 --> 00:17:13,200 he was also campaigning for Derrick Van Orden to Bryan 392 00:17:13,267 --> 00:17:16,370 Steil. targeted Republicans in 393 00:17:16,436 --> 00:17:18,572 >> Yeah. So just again, sort of bringing some 394 00:17:18,639 --> 00:17:20,908 national attention, some some money, but also he had 395 00:17:20,974 --> 00:17:23,243 this message around fraud and rooting out fraud and 396 00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:25,546 sort of the federal government's response to 397 00:17:25,612 --> 00:17:28,348 fraud. And so I think this is a way in which we're 398 00:17:28,415 --> 00:17:30,584 seeing that concept emerge as an election year issue 399 00:17:30,651 --> 00:17:33,453 of sort of, you know, rooting out corruption. And 400 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,722 like they are going to be the honest and transparent 401 00:17:35,789 --> 00:17:38,559 arm of government, which is a sort of interesting tack 402 00:17:38,625 --> 00:17:41,628 to take at a time that I think people are much more 403 00:17:41,695 --> 00:17:43,530 concerned about, you know, prices than necessarily the 404 00:17:43,597 --> 00:17:47,367 specter of fraud. That, again, sort of there's no 405 00:17:47,434 --> 00:17:49,837 evidence actually exists. >> All right. That's all 406 00:17:49,903 --> 00:17:52,406 the time we have for today. Thanks for joining us. Our 407 00:17:52,472 --> 00:17:55,242 colleague Rich Kremer will be back next week. This has 408 00:17:55,309 --> 00:17:57,277 been inside Wisconsin politics. Be sure to follow 409 00:17:57,344 --> 00:18:00,814 us on PBS wisconsin.org. WPR.org, YouTube, or 410 00:18:00,881 --> 00:18:03,884 wherever you get your podcasts.