Democratic Socialists pick up three big victories in
this week's New York City primaries. Could that
momentum carry all the way to Wisconsin? And the field
of Democrats running for governor here finally
shrinks. What is the signal about the race? This is
inside Wisconsin politics.
I'm Shawn Johnson here with Anya van Wagtendonk and
Rich Kremer in Eau Claire. Hey, gang.
>> Hey, Shawn. >> So our show this week
needs a little bit of setup. We are, of course, focused
on primaries in Wisconsin, but we are looking for
clues this week from primaries that happen in
New York. So, Anya, what did happen there?
>> Yeah, there were a number of congressional
primaries, including three candidates who received the
backing of Mayor Zoran Mamdani, himself a
socialist. Two of those candidates also received
endorsements from the Democratic Socialists of
America, which is a group that he's also affiliated
with. And all three of those candidates won, in
one case, kicking out an incumbent. Some of them
were, you know, political outsiders. So this was
really, in some ways an upset and a little bit of a
validation for Mamdani. This kind of further left
mayor for the power that he shows in this significant
blue area. And so a lot of people, as you say, are
kind of looking at that as as a tea leaves for what
that says about the Democratic primary right
now and what voters want in their blue candidates.
>> And I think that you would see states or people
in any state where Democrats have a plausible
shot at winning, asking these same questions. So
why are we asking it here, though, or what's kind of
our thread where it feels like, hey, this could
really be significant this year, right?
many differences between New York City and the state
of Wisconsin, but one of the things that there is
kind of commonality here is that we have this crowded
Democratic race for governor, as we've
mentioned, and and one candidate from there,
Francesca Hong is sort of in that same vein as
Mamdani. And these kind of she identifies as a
socialist, as a democratic socialist. She's part of
that caucus in the legislature. And so when we
kind of look at who is going to stand out among
this field of now six Democratic candidates, we
wonder kind of to what extent these victories for
these further left candidates means that Fran
Hong will stand out among Democrats. And then what
does that mean in a more general election, where,
again, a Wisconsin general election is very different
than a New York City primary election?
>> So we're going to get back to the primary for
governor here in just a minute. But, Rich, this was
a congressional primary in New York or congressional
primaries, rather. I wonder how we're seeing this play
out, if at all, in Democratic primaries here
in Wisconsin. For Congress, you are covering one in the
third Congressional District in western
Wisconsin. You just covered a forum there where there
is a Democratic primary. Do you see any parallels there
or is it a different ballgame?
>> It feels like a different ballgame. I mean,
for one, there aren't any DSA candidates in the race
for the third Congressional District. But, you know,
there are some similarities in one way. So we've got
two candidates and one seems to be trying to
portray herself as the the more progressive of the two.
And one is trying to or is acting like she's the more
moderate candidate. So these two people are Emily
Berge. She's the former City Council president of
Eau Claire, has been on the City Council for a long
time. She's the one that during the forum that was
last week in Platteville, was was offering up some
more of what you would expect progressive
candidates to say. For example, Berge called for
Medicare for all, which is universal health care,
essentially. And she said that she would she vowed to
impeach President Donald Trump if she were elected
or support the impeachment. The other candidate is
Rebecca Cooke, who has. This is her third run,
essentially for the third Congressional District. And
she was more reserved in answering those questions.
For example, on Medicare for all, she said. She said
she'd love to sign up for all of these aspirational
goals, but she said that it's more likely that if
Democrats win the House majority back, they would
go more towards expanding tax credits for the
Affordable Care Act that were passed by Democrats
during the earlier years of the Covid pandemic. And she
said so that would be the immediate first step. And
on impeachment, she said, well, the devil is in the
details of what that resolution would look like.
So those were two of the differences that I noticed
right away. And then another difference that
predates the debate by many months. The House Democrats
national campaign arm essentially endorsed
Rebecca Cooke like months ago, and they've offered
her support, they've offered her staff training,
etc. and Berge has since said and said during the
forum that, you know, it shouldn't be national
Democrats picking who represents the people of
the third district. It should be voters themselves.
So that's one way that it stood out from what
happened in New York. But there's still kind of two
candidates trying to pick their lanes, and it feels
like one is going more of the progressive lane, and
the other is trying to go a little bit more moderate.
>> I think that I think that push pull between
national Democrats and these more kind of we know
our community. We are kind of of. The progressive wing
was also on display in New York, right. A number of
the candidates who who were defeated were backed by
these national Democratic groups that Rick was just
talking about. And so again, while we're trying to see
how are Democrats feeling, how are they kind of
leaning going into what they are hoping broadly to
be a wave election? Like, who are they putting their
money behind as the people who can deliver that? And
so in New York, part of the answer was people whose
policies do fall a little bit to the left. It'll be
really interesting to see in the governor's race and
in some of these competitive congressional
races here in Wisconsin. What do Wisconsin Democrats,
where do they put their money behind?
>> I guess the thing that strikes me is that the
thing that's missing in Wisconsin is that you don't
have a massively powerful endorsement, it seems, as
they did in New York from Mayor Rahm, who came in and
said, this is what it means to be a Democrat right now.
This is my slate. Essentially, these are my
people, and it seems to have worked. Is there
anything like that in, let's say, the third
Congressional District for Emily Berge? Is there
somebody like that coming in and saying, this is the
progressive choice? >> Not that I know of, not
that I know of. Meanwhile, Cooke has gotten all kinds
of endorsements from sitting members of Congress,
the Senate, etc. and also the backing of the National
Party and a whole number of third party groups as well.
So I'm not aware of any big endorsements, actually,
endorsements that Berge has been promoting have been
from essentially local government, city council,
county board, school boards, etc.
>> So I guess I'm wondering if, you know that person
who could move the field like that even exists in
Wisconsin for Wisconsin Democrats, I mean, the
state party is staying out of this race, the race for
governor. You know, they they have massive financial
resources and could tip the field potentially if they
wanted to. They're definitely not going there.
We have a Democratic governor who has some power.
He's not being vocal with his endorsements. Is there
is this power vacuum sort of leaving us up in the air
about what's going to happen?
this a little bit in the context of Republicans,
because there is such a clear leader of the party
in in President Donald Trump. And so Democrats
don't quite have that for many reasons, including
that they don't hold these majorities in Washington.
They don't hold the white House. But I think also,
this really is a little bit of like an existential,
exploratory time for Democrats, both here in
Wisconsin, where they are facing, you know, the best
odds that they've had in a long time of getting some
real legislative power. But then nationally, seeing,
you know, there were other primaries that took place
on Tuesday as well outside of New York, where more
moderate Democrats won. One issue that was really
prevalent in a lot of these races was Israel and the
war in Gaza, and how that is playing out, how that's
kind of dividing up the Democratic Party. We've
seen that a little bit in like Milwaukee politics,
where that's played a real issue. I don't know to what
extent that will be important statewide. And so
that could be one place where Wisconsin's politics
obviously, of course, our our naturally very 5050
purple stance could look really different than some
of these places where Democrats feel a little bit
safer. Like we know we're going to get one of our
guys in. So let's try to really move the needle on
what that looks like. >> So I got to say, as
somebody who's covered Wisconsin politics for a
while now, it's still a little bit jarring to me to
see people just socialists. For example, I
think five years ago I wasn't seeing that. But I
remember Ana one of the first stories you did when
you came to Wisconsin Public Radio, was about
this socialist caucus in the Wisconsin legislature,
where, you know, for years it was Republicans who were
calling Democrats socialists, and they were
like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not. We're just
we're Democrats. And now Democrats are saying, yeah,
we are. That's who we represent. That's our
values. >> Yeah. And like you say,
I was, I think truly a week into my time here in 2023,
it was a new legislative session. And these two
Assembly members from Milwaukee, they, you know,
they caucus with the Democrats, but they
socialist caucus. That going to get the number
wrong, but it's something like 7 or 8 people. And so
it's not small. And you're right that there are
especially Republican members who will sometimes
be so outraged at this idea that there are people who
are identifying as socialists. But then you
also, you know, when I go again to a Francesca Hong
rally, that's something that people see as a as a
reason that they support her. And so it is one of
those things that, yeah, the term can either be an
insult or it can be an endorsement, depending on
who's leveling it. >> Her basic message seems
to be, these are dire times. We need a new kind of
politics. Which I do think that Republicans have a
different take when it comes to this stuff, though,
as they as you've as you've seen them react to the
results in New York City and what's going on here in
Wisconsin, how do they feel about it?
>> Well, based on what I've seen from, I guess, some of
the talking heads on social media, I could sum it up as
this all Democrats are socialists. That's what
Republicans are trying to pitch right now to voters.
Obviously, we know that that there's all kinds of
degrees to being a Republican, you know,
conservative, liberal, etc. I mean, just a million
different stripes out there. But Republicans are excited
about Hong maybe being the nominee in Wisconsin,
because they think that that'll give them the best
shot at making sure that Tom Tiffany wins. And in
fact, they have been pointing to this one one
poll that came out weeks and weeks ago, maybe longer,
that showed head to head matchups with all of the
Democratic candidates at the time. There were the
seven major candidates, and literally the only one in
that poll that lost to or that that Tiffany wouldn't
have lost to. Again, it's all theoretical, and it
only, I guess, represents what people who took the
survey felt on that day. But it was Francesca Hong.
And so not only are they literally talking about,
well, we hope that this is the nominee. They're also
some. Some Republicans are saying, hey, why don't you
go out and meddle in that primary vote for Hong, you
know, cross over because the other primaries on the
GOP side aren't as big of a deal. I literally saw a
post last night saying the race for governor is the
whole game. So Republicans go cross over, vote for
Hong. That'll make it easier for Tiffany in the
general. So yeah, they politics. Sometimes when
you're attacking opponents, you like to paint with a
broad brush. So they're seeing this rise up of some
of these democratic socialist candidates around
America. And they're saying, well, look, this is
Democrats in disarray. This is proof that the party has
moved to the left. ET cetera. ET cetera.
>> I wish we had more polling right now in this
race. You look back at the most recent public poll,
and it's like in March in terms of Marquette polls,
for example. I have a feeling, though, that you
might have a lot of people saying, I haven't heard
enough about the candidates and I haven't made up my
mind. It's June, leave me alone. But let's talk about
the field. We had a seven candidate Democratic
primary this week shrink to a six candidate primary.
Can we still use the word crowded when we're talking
about that? It's big anyway for a primary field.
>> Pretty crowded, I would say.
>> Missy Hughes dropped out. The former CEO of the
state's economic development agency, she
immediately endorsed Lieutenant Governor Sarah
Rodriguez. This is just an open question. How big a
deal was this? >> Well, you know, we've
been talking for weeks about are we going to see
any drop outs before August? And so this was the first
one. It was definitely a bit of breaking news. And I
think one of the things that we've been talking
about so much is this idea of lanes and how these
candidates can kind of stand out and make
themselves seem, you know, picking me would be
different than picking anyone else. And so I think
in her statement and then in interview, she gave
after Missy Hughes kind of she spoke about the ways
that Democrats are going to hurt each other if they are
trying to if they are taking up space that could
be taken up by somebody else. So she said she hopes
to see other people drop out. And so I think that is
a little bit of a nod to the fact that they need
that wall. Democrats are trying to figure out who
they are trying to be, what they're trying to represent,
and how do I beat Tom Tiffany or other people who
are picked by Donald Trump? What does that look like
for the Democrats? And so I think this was a signal
that one person at least made that calculus of what
was good for the party, and then how to kind of throw
her power and her weight behind that.
>> Well, I would say that it's not that big of a deal.
It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me,
because Hughes wasn't know, running for office
even, you know, running a primary, it's very
expensive. So I have no idea why she decided to
step down or out of the race. But, you know, the
endorsement of is is something. But again,
there's still six people in the race. And I'll just say
that that Hughes dropping out. You know, she was
essentially a pro-business, kind of a Democrat. Talked
a lot about how, you know, if you improve the economy,
you can improve people's lives with these other
programs and etc. But the Republicans have said, well,
look, if more proof they're pushing the moderates out.
So it's it's all a word game, I guess. But big
picture, I'm not sure it makes a huge deal.
>> Yeah. You know, she's the kind of candidate who
you could imagine in a Democratic year. Like we
could be headed toward in, you know, the Trump midterm
if she was the general election candidate. You
know, you could imagine someone like Missy Hughes
winning and becoming governor, but in a
Democratic primary, pitching that business
message, especially at this moment in time, it seemed
like a hard sell. She also did kind of go for that
moderate lane a little bit there a month or so ago,
when she was the only one who came out really in
support of that field surplus deal that was
negotiated by Tony Evers and Robin Vos, among other
Republicans in the legislature.
>> The other thing that made her unique is that she
comes from western Wisconsin. That's right.
>> She's the only. >> One, right? This sort of
bastion of democratic politics that has moved
very far away from that. Every other candidate is
Milwaukee or Madison. And so it's also, I think, a
little bit of a signifier that she was not able to
make much of a splash, even with that more rural,
farmer focused western Wisconsin background. That,
again, as we look at where is the party going, that it
seems to be going towards the major bases of
Milwaukee County, Dane County.
>> Okay, another open question here, I guess. Is
there any connection, do you think, to the Francesca
Hong story that we've been talking about and Missy
Hughes endorsing someone like Sarah Rodriguez, is
she making a bet that, look, this candidate's politics
kind of aligns with mine. We got to we got to unite
and stop the candidates from the left.
>> I mean, I don't know what's in her heart and I
would never guess. But again, from this idea of
not wanting to kind of crowd out people who are
similar to you, who have similar politics, who you
think could do a good and effective job in making
those politics a reality. If you have one quite
popular candidate who is Francesca Hong again,
polling shows her towards the top, and then you have
a number of people kind of further towards the center,
all fighting amongst themselves, right? Missy
Hughes voters and young voters were probably never
going to, you know, nobody's vacillating
between those two candidates. And so that's
maybe a way of trying to bring some more strength
into the not democratic socialist wing of the
Democratic Party, going into what's expected to
just be an incredibly tight general election.
>> She did say something in her press conference where
she endorsed endorsed Sara Rodriguez. She can't come
kind of the moderate candidate. I support her.
But she she said, we don't need we got a lot of good
things going on in this state. We don't need to
tear it all down. So that to me is a signal that she
supports the kind of politics which is similar
to what we've got already in Wisconsin, including the
Evers administration, which she and Sara Rodriguez have
served under. That's all the time
we have for today. Thanks for joining us. Our
colleague Zac Schultz will will be back in
a couple of weeks. This has been inside Wisconsin
politics. Be sure to follow us on PBS wisconsin.org.
WPR.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your
podcasts.