1 00:00:01,335 --> 00:00:04,404 so that big budget deal that got voted down in the 2 00:00:04,471 --> 00:00:06,940 Wisconsin legislature. Turns out it's really 3 00:00:07,007 --> 00:00:09,476 popular. What can we make of that finding? In the 4 00:00:09,543 --> 00:00:12,779 latest poll by Marquette University? And Tom, 5 00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:15,349 Tiffany has the Republican field largely to himself as 6 00:00:15,415 --> 00:00:18,185 he runs for governor. We talk about his approach. 7 00:00:18,252 --> 00:00:21,622 This is inside Wisconsin politics. 8 00:00:23,724 --> 00:00:24,791 I'm Shawn Johnson here with my colleagues, 9 00:00:24,858 --> 00:00:27,895 here with my colleagues, Zac Schultz Anya van 10 00:00:27,961 --> 00:00:30,130 Wagtendonk and Rich Kremer in Eau Claire. Hey, 11 00:00:30,197 --> 00:00:33,834 everyone. >> So we have used the word 12 00:00:33,901 --> 00:00:37,371 rare to describe this budget surplus deal more 13 00:00:37,437 --> 00:00:40,207 than once in the last few weeks. I mean, it's rare to 14 00:00:40,274 --> 00:00:42,276 see a Democratic governor and Republican leaders come 15 00:00:42,342 --> 00:00:44,111 together to negotiate something like this in an 16 00:00:44,178 --> 00:00:47,314 election year. Rare to see this kind of bipartisan 17 00:00:47,381 --> 00:00:51,552 opposition kind of backstabbing after the vote. 18 00:00:51,618 --> 00:00:56,123 Rich, I'd say it's rare to see this kind of a poll 19 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:59,159 from Marquette University, where you have such 20 00:00:59,226 --> 00:01:01,962 lopsided support in favor of any issue. What did 21 00:01:02,029 --> 00:01:06,033 Marquette find? >> So they found that among 22 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,705 the 454 Wisconsin residents that they surveyed, 80% 23 00:01:13,607 --> 00:01:16,410 said that the legislature should have passed the 24 00:01:16,476 --> 00:01:19,646 surplus spending deal. And what's really striking, to 25 00:01:19,713 --> 00:01:22,950 your point, is that when you break that down by 26 00:01:23,016 --> 00:01:26,186 partisanship, the numbers don't vary that much. Among 27 00:01:26,253 --> 00:01:29,156 Republicans, it was 77% who said that it should have 28 00:01:29,223 --> 00:01:34,228 passed. Independents 81%. Democrats 80%. So that is a 29 00:01:35,629 --> 00:01:38,632 I mean, that's a strong majority of people cutting 30 00:01:38,699 --> 00:01:41,535 across all partisan demographics who wanted to 31 00:01:41,602 --> 00:01:46,273 see this thing get passed. And the poll also asked 32 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:49,977 questions about, you know, are you going to remember 33 00:01:50,043 --> 00:01:53,080 this in the fall? ET cetera. ET cetera. And some people 34 00:01:53,146 --> 00:01:56,817 said they will. And it's just really fascinating. I 35 00:01:56,884 --> 00:02:00,254 talked to Charles Franklin, who's Marquette's pollster, 36 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,824 and he said he wanted to do this poll, which is 37 00:02:03,891 --> 00:02:06,393 different than others, because it was really 38 00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:09,363 interesting to him to see the bipartisan birth of 39 00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:12,699 this legislation and the bipartisan death of it. So 40 00:02:12,766 --> 00:02:15,802 he wanted to see where the public stood. 41 00:02:15,869 --> 00:02:20,407 >> When you saw those numbers come out, Zac Ana, 42 00:02:20,474 --> 00:02:23,610 what stood out to you? I mean, to me, I think the 43 00:02:23,677 --> 00:02:27,214 obvious top line number 4 or 5 is, is sort of eye 44 00:02:27,281 --> 00:02:29,283 popping. I would not have imagined that level of 45 00:02:29,349 --> 00:02:32,019 support for any bill that comes out of Wisconsin 46 00:02:32,085 --> 00:02:34,688 legislature. there are two things that 47 00:02:34,755 --> 00:02:37,524 jumped out at me. The first is we talked about it from 48 00:02:37,591 --> 00:02:39,693 the very beginning. This was the definition of a 49 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,895 bipartisan bill that the public has repeatedly said 50 00:02:41,962 --> 00:02:45,666 they want their lawmakers to do. And two, this is why 51 00:02:45,732 --> 00:02:48,902 we do not legislate by referendum. The public will 52 00:02:48,969 --> 00:02:51,405 always support something that gives them money, no 53 00:02:51,471 --> 00:02:53,974 matter the fiscal complications down the road. 54 00:02:54,041 --> 00:02:57,344 And they hate nuance. Most people in the state just 55 00:02:57,411 --> 00:03:01,148 want things done in a sane fashion. They don't like to 56 00:03:01,215 --> 00:03:04,117 get into the details of what will it mean for the 57 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:06,153 structural deficit in two years that they're worried 58 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:08,255 about their gas tank today? So it's not. If anything, 59 00:03:08,322 --> 00:03:10,123 it's surprising there weren't more people that 60 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:13,126 wanted this deal done closer to 90% because it 61 00:03:13,193 --> 00:03:16,563 looked like a win win for everybody. But it is those 62 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:19,833 little nitty details that the Democrats and some 63 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,102 Republicans jumped on to say why this didn't get 64 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:24,137 passed. >> Ana how about you? I 65 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:28,542 mean, to me, this finding sort of puts the way that 66 00:03:28,609 --> 00:03:32,012 people reacted to this bill in kind of a new light. You 67 00:03:32,079 --> 00:03:35,082 know, I remember asking you last week, why would some 68 00:03:35,148 --> 00:03:37,484 Democrats not want to come out against this when other 69 00:03:37,551 --> 00:03:39,887 Democrats are. Well, maybe we have a pretty good 70 00:03:39,953 --> 00:03:41,989 answer here. >> Well, yeah, I think, you 71 00:03:42,055 --> 00:03:44,725 know, we've talked about it as a messaging tool as well. 72 00:03:44,791 --> 00:03:46,927 And there is to Zac's point, there's like the 73 00:03:46,994 --> 00:03:48,662 nuanced messaging and the unnuanced messaging. And 74 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:52,032 one of those is more is easier to resonate with 75 00:03:52,099 --> 00:03:55,469 voters. And so you can kind of say, do you want money 76 00:03:55,536 --> 00:03:57,704 in your pocket or not? Do you want money for your 77 00:03:57,771 --> 00:04:00,641 schools or not? And most people, I think, are going 78 00:04:00,707 --> 00:04:03,610 to say, yes, I would like money in my pocket. I would 79 00:04:03,677 --> 00:04:05,779 like money in my schools having the more complicated 80 00:04:05,846 --> 00:04:07,748 messaging. You know, the opponents of the deal are, 81 00:04:07,814 --> 00:04:10,717 are the ones who are going to really have their work 82 00:04:10,784 --> 00:04:13,554 cut out for them because they have to kind of prove 83 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:16,490 a negative and say, well, but if we had done this, 84 00:04:16,557 --> 00:04:18,592 there would have been this deficit. We would have had 85 00:04:18,659 --> 00:04:20,794 to live under, you know, austerity measures going 86 00:04:20,861 --> 00:04:22,663 forward. That's a much more complicated thing than, do 87 00:04:22,729 --> 00:04:25,532 you want 300 bucks in your bank account or not? 88 00:04:25,599 --> 00:04:28,602 >> Yeah, I will say that when I saw this poll, my 89 00:04:28,669 --> 00:04:30,637 immediate thought was, well, you didn't tell them about 90 00:04:30,704 --> 00:04:33,707 the other side of this, that if you do this thing, 91 00:04:33,774 --> 00:04:36,543 you're going to blow a $2.9 billion hole in the budget. 92 00:04:36,610 --> 00:04:38,612 Actually, the Marquette did ask about that, rich. They 93 00:04:38,679 --> 00:04:41,515 they said in so many words, you know, that this could 94 00:04:41,582 --> 00:04:43,650 create budget issues down the road. And, you know, do 95 00:04:43,717 --> 00:04:47,688 you really want to do this now? And the public said. 96 00:04:47,754 --> 00:04:50,357 >> They said, we don't care. I mean, they might care, 97 00:04:50,424 --> 00:04:53,927 but they said that we still think that it would be 98 00:04:53,994 --> 00:04:57,931 better to get this money to schools and to ourselves in 99 00:04:57,998 --> 00:05:01,101 the form of property tax relief and rebate checks, 100 00:05:01,168 --> 00:05:05,639 $300 for single adults and tax filers and 600 for 101 00:05:06,807 --> 00:05:09,610 married couples. So they said it'd be better now 102 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:12,579 than next year, even considering the potential 103 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:16,183 for a nearly a $3 billion budget deficit going into 104 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:19,019 the next state budget. And I also wanted to mention 105 00:05:19,086 --> 00:05:23,090 that it has been really interesting seeing the 106 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:26,293 opposition. Almost every major candidate in the race 107 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,862 for governor was against it. Tom Tiffany on the 108 00:05:28,929 --> 00:05:32,366 Republican side and on the Democratic side, the only 109 00:05:32,432 --> 00:05:34,468 Democrat who came out and said we should be 110 00:05:34,535 --> 00:05:38,839 supporting this is former Wisconsin Economic 111 00:05:38,906 --> 00:05:43,477 director, CEO Missy Hughes. And so after the vote 112 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,614 failed and especially after this poll came out, she 113 00:05:47,681 --> 00:05:50,784 said, see, you know, this is why, you know, I want to 114 00:05:50,851 --> 00:05:53,220 get things done. People want to get things done. So 115 00:05:53,287 --> 00:05:55,856 it's going to be interesting to see what, if 116 00:05:55,923 --> 00:06:00,827 any, ads, campaign attack ads come from this because 117 00:06:00,894 --> 00:06:02,863 essentially, you know, Tiffany would have to say 118 00:06:02,930 --> 00:06:06,300 they didn't pass the thing that I didn't support or 119 00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:09,002 vice versa, you know? So it'll be really interesting 120 00:06:09,069 --> 00:06:12,272 to see if it if it plays into the campaigns much. 121 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:15,576 >> I also wonder if this was just another window 122 00:06:15,642 --> 00:06:18,846 into an issue that we already know is, is big and 123 00:06:18,912 --> 00:06:21,982 that is the cost of living. People feel that cost of 124 00:06:22,049 --> 00:06:24,618 living. And when you ask them, would you like a 125 00:06:24,685 --> 00:06:27,321 little help might sound like a little in terms of 126 00:06:27,387 --> 00:06:29,523 the state budget and 300 bucks, you know, you can 127 00:06:29,590 --> 00:06:32,426 say that's not going to solve all their problems, 128 00:06:32,492 --> 00:06:34,528 but the answer is a resounding yes when you ask 129 00:06:34,595 --> 00:06:36,964 that question. >> Well, it's the number 130 00:06:37,030 --> 00:06:38,899 one issue that people have been talking about for more 131 00:06:38,966 --> 00:06:40,901 than a year now. Affordability has been an 132 00:06:40,968 --> 00:06:43,804 issue. It was an issue in the 24 presidential 133 00:06:43,871 --> 00:06:46,073 campaign. So in some ways, it's surprising that all 134 00:06:46,139 --> 00:06:48,108 these major candidates dropped the ball. And, 135 00:06:48,175 --> 00:06:50,911 Shawn, I'll turn around the point that Rick brought and 136 00:06:50,978 --> 00:06:53,247 brought back to you, which is it seems like a lot of 137 00:06:53,313 --> 00:06:55,449 these major candidates other than Missy Hughes 138 00:06:55,516 --> 00:06:57,518 have flubbed their chance to have themselves a really 139 00:06:57,584 --> 00:07:00,320 nice issue to campaign on in the fall. If there's 140 00:07:00,387 --> 00:07:03,023 anyone that would take back their opposition, do you 141 00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:05,592 think there's 1 or 2 candidates that would be 142 00:07:05,659 --> 00:07:08,562 better off if they'd been supportive? 143 00:07:08,629 --> 00:07:10,898 >> Maybe. Maybe. I think for Democrats, they have to 144 00:07:10,964 --> 00:07:13,901 focus on winning that primary. And so in the 145 00:07:13,967 --> 00:07:17,538 moments after this thing was made public, they had 146 00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:21,375 to decide what is the left position and how close do I 147 00:07:21,441 --> 00:07:24,378 want to get to that? And they made those 148 00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:26,480 calculations. You know, I think in hindsight, seeing 149 00:07:26,547 --> 00:07:29,917 an 80% issue, maybe you would want to be on the 150 00:07:29,983 --> 00:07:32,686 side of the 80%, especially when Democrats and 151 00:07:32,753 --> 00:07:34,821 independents basically feel the same way about that 152 00:07:34,888 --> 00:07:36,957 stuff. I think it's an open question, though, about 153 00:07:37,024 --> 00:07:39,259 whether or not when we've talked about this before, 154 00:07:39,326 --> 00:07:42,095 but whether or not they'll pay the price for this in 155 00:07:42,162 --> 00:07:45,999 November, I should say, you know, voters were asked 156 00:07:46,066 --> 00:07:49,036 about that Rich and whether or not they'll be thinking 157 00:07:49,102 --> 00:07:51,638 about this as they vote in November. How important is 158 00:07:51,705 --> 00:07:54,942 it to them? Would they say they're. 159 00:07:55,909 --> 00:07:59,813 >> So 73% of the respondents said that this 160 00:08:01,048 --> 00:08:04,318 you know, where candidates stood on this. Them 161 00:08:04,384 --> 00:08:07,554 opposing this legislation will be either somewhat or 162 00:08:07,621 --> 00:08:10,858 very important to them come November. And I asked 163 00:08:10,924 --> 00:08:13,794 Charles Franklin about this, you know, because in in our 164 00:08:13,861 --> 00:08:17,564 world in November, might as well be three years away in 165 00:08:17,631 --> 00:08:20,234 terms of how fast things can change on the campaign 166 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:24,371 trail. And he said, well, people might not remember 167 00:08:24,438 --> 00:08:27,207 individual votes on this specific bill, but to 168 00:08:27,274 --> 00:08:31,311 Zac's point, Franklin said that cost of living 169 00:08:31,378 --> 00:08:33,714 affordability, property taxes, school funding have 170 00:08:33,780 --> 00:08:37,651 been and will likely continue to be top of mind 171 00:08:37,718 --> 00:08:40,053 for them. >> Yeah, I'm tempted to say 172 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,890 I don't believe you voters. You know, something else is 173 00:08:42,956 --> 00:08:45,325 going to come along between now and November. But still, 174 00:08:45,392 --> 00:08:48,262 that is a pretty overwhelming finding from 175 00:08:48,328 --> 00:08:50,998 people right now saying, yeah, I'm going to remember 176 00:08:51,064 --> 00:08:53,267 this. How about the candidates for governor 177 00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:55,202 specifically, though? Because that was one where 178 00:08:55,269 --> 00:08:58,238 I thought the findings were a little squishier more. 179 00:08:58,305 --> 00:09:01,275 This is more the Wisconsin I know when people are 180 00:09:01,341 --> 00:09:04,044 presented with this idea of whether or not they thought 181 00:09:04,111 --> 00:09:06,914 it was wrong for Tom Tiffany to take a stand 182 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:09,016 against this, or for other Democratic candidates to 183 00:09:09,082 --> 00:09:13,287 take a stand against this as more as closer to 50/50. 184 00:09:13,353 --> 00:09:17,124 Right. You had it seems like Democrats and 185 00:09:17,191 --> 00:09:20,194 Republicans may be willing to give their candidate the 186 00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:22,663 benefit of the doubt. If you hear the right 187 00:09:22,729 --> 00:09:25,632 messaging between now and November on you. 188 00:09:25,699 --> 00:09:28,635 >> Yeah. You know, one of the sort of upsetting 189 00:09:28,702 --> 00:09:31,171 truths for those of us who really care about facts and 190 00:09:31,238 --> 00:09:33,607 details in the public, you know, media world is that 191 00:09:33,674 --> 00:09:35,542 voters don't really care about those things, right? 192 00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:37,945 They care about sort of feeling heard and feeling 193 00:09:38,011 --> 00:09:40,747 considered. And so one of the things that candidates 194 00:09:40,814 --> 00:09:44,151 need to do right now is present, that they take 195 00:09:44,218 --> 00:09:46,119 people's concerns seriously. They take the affordability 196 00:09:46,186 --> 00:09:48,355 concerns seriously, they take the school funding 197 00:09:48,422 --> 00:09:51,625 concerns seriously. And the kind of details of it are a 198 00:09:51,692 --> 00:09:54,795 lot less important to your everyday voter. And so how 199 00:09:54,862 --> 00:09:57,731 do you kind of message that in a way that makes people 200 00:09:57,798 --> 00:09:59,933 feel heard and understood enough to want to check 201 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,569 that box at the ballot box, rather than kind of getting 202 00:10:02,636 --> 00:10:05,239 into some of this infighting around the 203 00:10:05,305 --> 00:10:07,908 capital by which it could have or could have not 204 00:10:07,975 --> 00:10:09,543 occurred. >> I think you've brought 205 00:10:09,610 --> 00:10:12,246 up a really important element, and that is that 206 00:10:12,312 --> 00:10:14,348 feeds into the cynicism of some people out there. And 207 00:10:14,414 --> 00:10:17,518 the question for every midterm is turnout. 208 00:10:17,584 --> 00:10:19,653 Presidential elections will always have high turnout 209 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,022 just because there's so much attention. Midterms, 210 00:10:22,089 --> 00:10:25,025 the candidate success rises and falls with who shows up 211 00:10:25,092 --> 00:10:27,494 and which party can get their people out. So if 212 00:10:27,561 --> 00:10:30,197 there are voters, independents, or moderates 213 00:10:30,264 --> 00:10:33,133 on either side who feel like they're not being 214 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,603 heard by their politicians because both sides, all the 215 00:10:36,670 --> 00:10:39,139 candidates in front of them, said, no, I'd rather do it 216 00:10:39,206 --> 00:10:41,942 my way later on. You don't need anything right now. 217 00:10:42,009 --> 00:10:44,845 You can just wait. That may feed into them saying, well, 218 00:10:44,912 --> 00:10:47,080 forget it, I'm just going to tune out. None of you 219 00:10:47,147 --> 00:10:49,883 deserve my vote. And that could impact turnout. Who 220 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:52,486 were those voters more likely to be persuadable? 221 00:10:52,553 --> 00:10:55,088 By which side could they have gone to if they vote 222 00:10:55,155 --> 00:10:57,891 at all? That is a big factor. When you see the 223 00:10:57,958 --> 00:11:00,427 potential of this midterm with wave elections and 224 00:11:00,494 --> 00:11:02,996 people feeling upset and angry, some of them just 225 00:11:03,063 --> 00:11:05,532 tune out and they are votes that are not even counted 226 00:11:05,599 --> 00:11:08,836 at all because they never show up. 227 00:11:08,902 --> 00:11:11,004 of the candidates for governor in a little more 228 00:11:11,071 --> 00:11:14,508 detail here. Tom Tiffany had a forum in Madison on 229 00:11:14,575 --> 00:11:17,344 the day that this poll came out. So it was a few hours 230 00:11:17,411 --> 00:11:20,080 after the the poll had been out there. Essentially, 231 00:11:20,147 --> 00:11:22,749 he'd seen the answers to the test by then, and he 232 00:11:22,816 --> 00:11:25,953 knew where the public stood on this issue. Tom Tiffany 233 00:11:26,019 --> 00:11:30,257 was asked Ana at this forum, you know, do you stand by 234 00:11:30,324 --> 00:11:33,594 your comments earlier that you oppose this deal? What 235 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:37,030 did he have to say? >> He stands by those. But 236 00:11:37,097 --> 00:11:39,266 again, you know, like needing to thread that 237 00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:42,336 needle of. But yes, I want to fund schools. Yes, I 238 00:11:42,402 --> 00:11:45,172 think that people need more money in their pockets. I 239 00:11:45,239 --> 00:11:47,941 just don't think that this was the right deal for that. 240 00:11:48,008 --> 00:11:50,744 And so again, he got kind of squishy on details. So 241 00:11:50,811 --> 00:11:53,480 he talked about he believes basically every penny of 242 00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:56,483 the surplus needs to go back into people's pockets. 243 00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:59,786 This would have obviously split the the surplus 244 00:11:59,853 --> 00:12:02,122 between school funding and some of those rebates. And 245 00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:04,992 then things like no tax on tips. He then didn't really 246 00:12:05,058 --> 00:12:07,961 have a proposal for how he would return that money to 247 00:12:08,028 --> 00:12:10,297 the taxpayers, and he didn't really have details 248 00:12:10,364 --> 00:12:13,200 on how he would then boost school funding, because, of 249 00:12:13,267 --> 00:12:15,669 course, that is the other kind of half of the deal. 250 00:12:15,736 --> 00:12:18,572 But he said he really cares about that. And, you know, 251 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:20,574 stay tuned for his first budget as governor. So it 252 00:12:20,641 --> 00:12:23,443 was a way of, I think, trying to thread that 253 00:12:23,510 --> 00:12:25,612 needle of I didn't support it because it didn't do 254 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,682 enough for you, the voter vote for me and I'll make 255 00:12:28,749 --> 00:12:31,385 it happen. I will find a way to balance the budget 256 00:12:31,451 --> 00:12:35,189 and find a way to put money in your pockets. 257 00:12:35,255 --> 00:12:38,492 projected surplus as at this forum? 258 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,495 Madison math to try to to if there was going to be a 259 00:12:41,562 --> 00:12:44,431 deficit because of how you spend money, that that is 260 00:12:44,498 --> 00:12:46,600 Madison math. And he's going to do sort of family 261 00:12:46,667 --> 00:12:49,369 checkbook math, which is how you balance a budget. 262 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:52,172 So again, a lot of sort of talking points, not a lot 263 00:12:52,239 --> 00:12:55,442 of specifics. terms of the Madison math 264 00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:57,744 versus the family math, it is, it is basically like 265 00:12:57,811 --> 00:13:00,614 assuming your family is not going to get a raise in the 266 00:13:00,681 --> 00:13:03,450 next couple of years. And this is what would happen 267 00:13:03,517 --> 00:13:06,453 if you didn't, you would run out of money at this 268 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,755 forum hosted by WisPolitics in Madison, Tom Tiffany was 269 00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:12,125 also given an open invitation to show where he 270 00:13:12,192 --> 00:13:15,028 disagrees with President Donald Trump. One of those 271 00:13:15,095 --> 00:13:18,732 questions was about whether he'd support this $1.8 272 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:21,001 billion pot of money that Trump's administration has 273 00:13:21,068 --> 00:13:23,871 dubbed the Anti Weaponization Fund. That's 274 00:13:23,937 --> 00:13:26,573 the one the Democrats worry could be used to compensate 275 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,977 people like the January 6th defendants. Here's what Tom 276 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:32,746 Tiffany had to say. >> So I'm still studying 277 00:13:32,813 --> 00:13:35,649 the details in regards to that. I haven't I'm asking 278 00:13:35,716 --> 00:13:39,119 the administration to give us more as far as how 279 00:13:39,186 --> 00:13:43,857 exactly they expect to implement this. I'd say one 280 00:13:43,924 --> 00:13:47,561 of the just one thought that I have in regards to 281 00:13:47,628 --> 00:13:51,665 it is that, you know, maybe some people are due 282 00:13:51,732 --> 00:13:55,402 compensation. >> So, Zac, this is a 5050 283 00:13:55,469 --> 00:13:58,172 state. And Tom Tiffany has the luxury of not running 284 00:13:58,238 --> 00:14:01,542 in a big competitive Republican primary right 285 00:14:01,608 --> 00:14:04,578 now. One could argue that this would be a chance for 286 00:14:04,645 --> 00:14:07,681 him to say, this is where I differ from the president. 287 00:14:07,748 --> 00:14:09,850 Why didn't we hear that from him? 288 00:14:09,917 --> 00:14:11,518 >> Because he really hasn't differed from the president 289 00:14:11,585 --> 00:14:13,987 on most issues since the president has come into 290 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:16,223 power. And since Tom Tiffany's been in Congress, 291 00:14:16,290 --> 00:14:19,726 they've been very closely associated. And that's not 292 00:14:19,793 --> 00:14:21,495 just Tom Tiffany's personal belief. That's him 293 00:14:21,562 --> 00:14:23,797 representing his congressional district. The 294 00:14:23,864 --> 00:14:27,401 seventh is the most Maga red of all the Republican 295 00:14:27,467 --> 00:14:30,370 districts throughout the state. So, yes, there's a 296 00:14:30,437 --> 00:14:32,639 political logic that comes with, well, he doesn't have 297 00:14:32,706 --> 00:14:34,808 a Republican primary to worry about. So he already 298 00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:36,844 has Trump's endorsement, the party's endorsement, so 299 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:39,680 he can afford to split from Trump. It's not the same as 300 00:14:39,746 --> 00:14:41,815 some of these primaries we've seen around the 301 00:14:41,882 --> 00:14:43,884 country, where everyone's desperately clinging to try 302 00:14:43,951 --> 00:14:46,186 and get Trump to give him their blessing so they can 303 00:14:46,253 --> 00:14:49,356 win a primary. He's already got that. So I think this 304 00:14:49,423 --> 00:14:51,859 clearly shows and his prior statements in a lot of 305 00:14:51,925 --> 00:14:54,661 these similar issues about the 2020 election and 306 00:14:54,728 --> 00:14:57,631 election fraud and conspiracies clearly shows 307 00:14:57,698 --> 00:15:00,868 this is who he is, and this has been who he is all 308 00:15:00,934 --> 00:15:03,470 along in Congress. This really isn't any different 309 00:15:03,537 --> 00:15:06,039 from the Tom Tiffany we've been covering for all these 310 00:15:06,106 --> 00:15:08,008 years. I think there may be some Republicans who wish 311 00:15:08,075 --> 00:15:11,178 it was different, because now he's in a more 312 00:15:11,245 --> 00:15:13,046 widespread political spotlight and the little 313 00:15:13,113 --> 00:15:15,315 higher stakes with the gubernatorial election. But 314 00:15:15,382 --> 00:15:18,552 it's not really a change from who he's always been 315 00:15:18,619 --> 00:15:21,555 rich. >> We've had the benefit of 316 00:15:21,622 --> 00:15:24,925 a few days since that forum, but he was he covered a lot 317 00:15:24,992 --> 00:15:28,896 there in this forum by WisPolitics. What were some 318 00:15:28,962 --> 00:15:31,198 people in his own party saying about how that went 319 00:15:31,265 --> 00:15:33,400 for him, and kind of how he maneuvered around these 320 00:15:33,467 --> 00:15:36,937 questions. >> So through my trolling 321 00:15:38,071 --> 00:15:41,875 of social media trolling. Its research, trolling is 322 00:15:41,942 --> 00:15:46,847 something else. That's right. Research. I, I saw a 323 00:15:46,914 --> 00:15:50,918 few conservatives, Republicans, and even one 324 00:15:50,984 --> 00:15:54,955 conservative website say this was an unforced error. 325 00:15:55,022 --> 00:15:58,125 He doesn't he shouldn't be talking about 2020. He 326 00:15:58,192 --> 00:15:59,927 needs to talk about the future and what he's going 327 00:15:59,993 --> 00:16:03,797 to do, and also to the surplus bill and his 328 00:16:04,598 --> 00:16:06,700 opposition to that, they said. A lot of people said 329 00:16:06,767 --> 00:16:11,071 that was another unforced error. And, you know, 330 00:16:11,138 --> 00:16:14,374 there's this race on to for every candidate to define 331 00:16:14,441 --> 00:16:16,410 themselves before they're defined by the other party. 332 00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:19,746 So some Republicans think that Tiffany needs to do a 333 00:16:19,813 --> 00:16:23,150 better job of that. >> Ana one thing that stood 334 00:16:23,217 --> 00:16:25,319 out to you, I remember when we were talking about what 335 00:16:25,385 --> 00:16:29,656 went on at this forum is you said he basically 336 00:16:29,723 --> 00:16:33,227 covered a lot of ground and said very little about the 337 00:16:33,293 --> 00:16:35,128 details. Would that be an accurate summation of what 338 00:16:35,195 --> 00:16:37,331 you saw? >> I think that's right. 339 00:16:37,397 --> 00:16:40,033 And, you know, to be clear, it's not unusual for a 340 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,536 politician in an election year to kind of go broad 341 00:16:42,603 --> 00:16:44,671 strokes, big picture and not necessarily settle on 342 00:16:44,738 --> 00:16:47,541 the details. But I think, again, it speaks to this 343 00:16:47,608 --> 00:16:49,610 thing that we've been talking about, this whole 344 00:16:49,676 --> 00:16:52,479 show about how do you kind of land a message without 345 00:16:52,546 --> 00:16:54,681 getting caught up in these details? And I wonder to 346 00:16:54,748 --> 00:16:56,984 what extent, because he doesn't have to distinguish 347 00:16:57,050 --> 00:16:59,086 himself in a primary the way that the Democratic 348 00:16:59,152 --> 00:17:02,756 candidates do, whether he just kind of wants to 349 00:17:02,823 --> 00:17:05,659 appeal to people who just want a more conservative 350 00:17:05,726 --> 00:17:07,995 person in office, people who, you know, for whom his 351 00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:10,664 sort of Northwoods background is more 352 00:17:10,731 --> 00:17:14,168 appealing and, and is maybe relying on some level of 353 00:17:14,234 --> 00:17:16,003 infighting from the Democrats. And therefore, 354 00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:18,472 he doesn't really need to make a case in that 355 00:17:18,539 --> 00:17:20,607 traditional sense. He doesn't need to explain in 356 00:17:20,674 --> 00:17:23,610 great detail how he would balance that budget. He can 357 00:17:23,677 --> 00:17:26,547 kind of go a little bit on on vibes and hope that 358 00:17:26,613 --> 00:17:29,016 that'll carry him through November. 359 00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:31,852 Madison, he has that luxury. I did check before we 360 00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:34,454 recorded today, and he has a couple campaign ads on 361 00:17:34,521 --> 00:17:37,991 YouTube. Zac, 7 million views and 4 million views 362 00:17:38,058 --> 00:17:40,727 where he talks about basically being a Wisconsin 363 00:17:40,794 --> 00:17:43,197 guy and a damn tender. It seems like that may reach 364 00:17:43,263 --> 00:17:44,898 more people. >> And that is his 365 00:17:44,965 --> 00:17:47,067 background. He started out running a small business. 366 00:17:47,134 --> 00:17:49,503 He's tended the dam and that's what he's going to 367 00:17:49,570 --> 00:17:52,039 run on. Is that folksy, Northwoods attitude 368 00:17:52,105 --> 00:17:54,374 widespread the inside Wisconsin politics? That's 369 00:17:54,441 --> 00:17:56,343 the Madison math he's not worried about. 370 00:17:56,410 --> 00:17:58,712 >> Well, that's all the time we have for today. 371 00:17:58,779 --> 00:18:02,182 Thanks for joining us. This has been inside Wisconsin 372 00:18:02,249 --> 00:18:05,185 politics. Be sure to follow us on PBS wisconsin.org. 373 00:18:05,252 --> 00:18:07,154 WPR.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your 374 00:18:07,221 --> 00:18:08,889 podcasts.