1 00:00:01,535 --> 00:00:03,670 been a week since the budget surplus deal fell 2 00:00:03,737 --> 00:00:06,507 apart at the Capitol, and we're still making sense of 3 00:00:06,573 --> 00:00:08,976 the fallout. Today, we talk about how it's playing out 4 00:00:09,042 --> 00:00:11,612 in the governor's race. More insight on the talks 5 00:00:11,678 --> 00:00:14,081 that failed and more information about what it 6 00:00:14,147 --> 00:00:17,584 would mean for the state's bottom line. This is inside 7 00:00:17,651 --> 00:00:19,653 Wisconsin politics. 8 00:00:20,687 --> 00:00:22,723 I'm Shawn Johnson here with my 9 00:00:22,789 --> 00:00:24,892 colleagues Anya van Wagtendonk and Zac Schultz. 10 00:00:24,958 --> 00:00:27,194 Hey, you two. >> Hello. 11 00:00:27,261 --> 00:00:30,297 >> So, Zac, we pretty much ran out of time last week 12 00:00:30,364 --> 00:00:32,165 talking about this deal because there are so many 13 00:00:32,232 --> 00:00:35,102 facets to it and so many players, so many 14 00:00:35,169 --> 00:00:38,972 motivations to discuss. We barely touched on part of 15 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:41,308 it, which is how it's being received in the Democratic 16 00:00:41,375 --> 00:00:43,911 primary for governor, which is just as well, because we 17 00:00:43,977 --> 00:00:46,446 had more reactions since that show and since the 18 00:00:46,513 --> 00:00:50,250 deal fell apart. I guess if you had to sum it up, this 19 00:00:50,317 --> 00:00:53,287 big Democratic primary, how are the candidates dealing 20 00:00:53,353 --> 00:00:55,889 with this big deal that they weren't really 21 00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:58,192 expecting to come along? >> Well, it was interesting 22 00:00:58,258 --> 00:01:00,561 to watch the reactions as it was unfolding when I 23 00:01:00,627 --> 00:01:03,263 think most people probably thought this was going to 24 00:01:03,330 --> 00:01:07,134 pass in the days leading up to it. We saw kind of I saw 25 00:01:07,201 --> 00:01:10,304 three different responses. There were two very clear 26 00:01:10,370 --> 00:01:14,308 no's from Francesca and Hong and from Kelda Roys, 27 00:01:14,374 --> 00:01:16,243 both running in a more progressive stance. The two 28 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:18,145 only that actually got to vote on this because 29 00:01:18,212 --> 00:01:20,714 they're still in the legislature. Then we saw 30 00:01:20,781 --> 00:01:23,350 Missy Hughes come out. Absolutely all for it. One 31 00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:26,620 of the only ones to to say this is a good deal and it 32 00:01:26,687 --> 00:01:29,423 makes sense to try and get this done, perhaps a way to 33 00:01:29,489 --> 00:01:32,226 try and give herself a little attention in a 34 00:01:32,292 --> 00:01:34,528 crowded race where struggle for oxygen. And 35 00:01:34,595 --> 00:01:37,564 then we saw kind of a muddled middle of a lot of 36 00:01:37,631 --> 00:01:39,700 candidates that really were like, I really don't like 37 00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:42,569 the process. And this may not be the best deal, but 38 00:01:42,636 --> 00:01:45,539 it was clear they were not ready to come out against 39 00:01:45,606 --> 00:01:47,741 it. And then it failed. And then the knives started 40 00:01:47,808 --> 00:01:50,410 coming out afterwards. And what we've seen since then 41 00:01:50,477 --> 00:01:52,513 has been different, but it felt like those lanes were 42 00:01:52,579 --> 00:01:55,449 kind of decided in the lead up to it. And then 43 00:01:55,516 --> 00:01:57,484 afterwards they exposed a little more of how they 44 00:01:57,551 --> 00:02:00,287 were feeling about it and who they were ready to 45 00:02:00,354 --> 00:02:02,289 blame more specifically for how it went apart. 46 00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:04,591 >> Anna, how are you processing this? You know, 47 00:02:04,658 --> 00:02:08,028 I guess variety of reactions all coming from 48 00:02:08,095 --> 00:02:10,497 these candidates at once. >> Yeah. Well, in some ways, 49 00:02:10,564 --> 00:02:12,699 I think the bill was an election year messaging 50 00:02:12,766 --> 00:02:14,801 tool anyways, right. For the people who negotiated 51 00:02:14,868 --> 00:02:17,571 it. And so all of a sudden it presented an opportunity 52 00:02:17,638 --> 00:02:20,340 for people in this crowded primary who are not really 53 00:02:20,407 --> 00:02:23,043 all that distinguished. I still run into people who 54 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:25,212 do not know that there is a governor's race this year, 55 00:02:25,279 --> 00:02:29,082 right? So this is a way and most people are not 56 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:30,717 watching our show. Apparently they will, but 57 00:02:30,784 --> 00:02:34,221 they'll start. Yeah, but so this is an opportunity for 58 00:02:34,288 --> 00:02:37,824 those Democrats to try to message around school 59 00:02:37,891 --> 00:02:39,960 funding property taxes, these really big election 60 00:02:40,027 --> 00:02:43,163 year issues, and to try to stand out a little bit. 61 00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:45,032 >> Yeah. Talk about trying to stand out. There are 62 00:02:45,098 --> 00:02:48,502 sort of degrees of no and degrees of yes, like on on 63 00:02:48,569 --> 00:02:51,205 degrees of no. Kelda Roys. I think we were just 64 00:02:51,271 --> 00:02:54,741 checking out our emails and she came out against this 65 00:02:54,808 --> 00:02:58,712 deal in less than two hours after it was made public. 66 00:02:58,779 --> 00:03:01,315 So there's somebody who's trying to let people know 67 00:03:01,381 --> 00:03:03,917 I'm definitely against this, and she's got to vote on it 68 00:03:03,984 --> 00:03:07,020 one way or another, so might as well take a 69 00:03:07,087 --> 00:03:09,089 position Francesca Hong the same day. And then you've 70 00:03:09,156 --> 00:03:11,225 got the candidates, as you alluded to, Joel Brennan 71 00:03:11,291 --> 00:03:13,927 who worked for Tony Evers saying, I didn't like the 72 00:03:13,994 --> 00:03:15,996 process and then some. I don't know exactly where 73 00:03:16,063 --> 00:03:18,832 they stand on the deal where, you know, they're 74 00:03:18,899 --> 00:03:22,703 just basically saying it failed. We got to move on. 75 00:03:22,769 --> 00:03:26,773 You know, why is why would they give such a a muddled 76 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,042 answer, as you called it? Why not take a position on 77 00:03:29,109 --> 00:03:31,211 this thing? >> I think because there 78 00:03:31,278 --> 00:03:34,248 was a lot to lose not knowing how it was going to 79 00:03:34,314 --> 00:03:36,416 come out. Most of these people were not involved in 80 00:03:36,483 --> 00:03:38,552 any of the discussions. They probably did not know 81 00:03:38,619 --> 00:03:41,188 that they were even happening at this time. And 82 00:03:41,255 --> 00:03:44,124 I think it probably was true that Kelda may not 83 00:03:44,191 --> 00:03:46,226 have known they were happening, given how 84 00:03:46,293 --> 00:03:49,496 quickly she responded, it may have known that, hey, 85 00:03:49,563 --> 00:03:51,632 Senate Dems were not in the loop, which is ultimately 86 00:03:51,698 --> 00:03:54,635 what killed this. And she had the most distinct 87 00:03:54,701 --> 00:03:57,404 opportunity to put her stamp on this entire 88 00:03:57,471 --> 00:03:59,506 process. Because no matter what, she was the only one 89 00:03:59,573 --> 00:04:02,376 that was in the chamber where it could have passed 90 00:04:02,442 --> 00:04:06,013 that said, no, that was not the deciding vote, but a 91 00:04:06,079 --> 00:04:08,515 deciding vote adjacent in terms of being able to say, 92 00:04:08,582 --> 00:04:11,251 this is going down, I will not vote for it. And I 93 00:04:11,318 --> 00:04:14,188 stand with the rest of my colleagues. So there are 94 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:16,456 definitely a lot of things to be gained for some of 95 00:04:16,523 --> 00:04:19,326 those people and being very clear, and there's a lot to 96 00:04:19,393 --> 00:04:22,262 lose. And so some of that is just the approach that 97 00:04:22,329 --> 00:04:24,431 some of these candidates have taken in this primary 98 00:04:24,498 --> 00:04:26,400 is cautious front runner or assumed frontrunner. And 99 00:04:26,466 --> 00:04:28,468 how close are they to Governor Evers to begin 100 00:04:28,535 --> 00:04:31,138 with? We've got multiple people who've worked in his 101 00:04:31,205 --> 00:04:34,341 staff, two lieutenant people that are not close 102 00:04:34,408 --> 00:04:36,476 to the Evers administration at all. So they can be a 103 00:04:36,543 --> 00:04:38,579 little more freewheeling there. They're not hoping 104 00:04:38,645 --> 00:04:41,481 for, you know, the if they win a primary or come close, 105 00:04:41,548 --> 00:04:43,750 if Evers bestowing, you know, any blessings upon 106 00:04:43,817 --> 00:04:46,253 them at the last minute, they can be farther apart. 107 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,488 >> Yeah. He has said repeatedly he's not going 108 00:04:48,555 --> 00:04:53,627 to endorse in this campaign. And he seems like unhappy 109 00:04:53,694 --> 00:04:56,463 with the candidates increasingly, especially as 110 00:04:56,530 --> 00:05:00,000 they kind of trash his deal as as they did this time 111 00:05:00,067 --> 00:05:02,870 around. Ana. I think what strikes me is that these 112 00:05:02,936 --> 00:05:04,938 candidates set out this campaign and they had a 113 00:05:05,005 --> 00:05:07,741 plan. They want to talk about certain messages. 114 00:05:07,808 --> 00:05:10,110 They want to talk about Donald Trump. They want to 115 00:05:10,177 --> 00:05:13,614 define themselves on their terms. And when the 116 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,550 governor negotiates an agreement with Republican 117 00:05:16,617 --> 00:05:19,219 leaders, it kind of throws a wrench in those plans, 118 00:05:19,286 --> 00:05:22,322 doesn't it? there's sort of policy and 119 00:05:22,389 --> 00:05:25,125 issues, and then there's politics. And this was a 120 00:05:25,192 --> 00:05:27,227 political week, right? This was all about these 121 00:05:27,294 --> 00:05:31,031 negotiations and kind of the powerful, the 122 00:05:31,098 --> 00:05:33,066 negotiations of power that were taking place. And so 123 00:05:33,133 --> 00:05:35,502 that's really different than the issue of property 124 00:05:35,569 --> 00:05:38,205 taxes, which nobody is going to go on record 125 00:05:38,272 --> 00:05:40,607 supporting high property taxes. Nobody, especially 126 00:05:40,674 --> 00:05:42,943 in the Democratic Party, is going to go on record not 127 00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:45,379 wanting to fully fund public schools. And so how 128 00:05:45,445 --> 00:05:48,649 do you kind of take a stance that allows you to 129 00:05:48,715 --> 00:05:50,918 be on sort of the right side of that politically? 130 00:05:50,984 --> 00:05:54,388 Well, then also taking part in the political 131 00:05:54,454 --> 00:05:56,890 maneuverings in the capital, which again, like normal 132 00:05:56,957 --> 00:05:59,526 people don't follow, don't really understand. They're 133 00:05:59,593 --> 00:06:02,229 just going to see what's on their mailers in a couple 134 00:06:02,296 --> 00:06:05,165 of months saying voted for or against money in your 135 00:06:05,232 --> 00:06:07,434 pocket or money for your schools. And so that's a 136 00:06:07,501 --> 00:06:10,871 really kind of complicated dance to be doing right now. 137 00:06:10,938 --> 00:06:13,607 >> And do you think that, you know, coming out in 138 00:06:13,674 --> 00:06:16,810 favor of the deal is Missy Hughes did, for example, is 139 00:06:16,877 --> 00:06:19,413 going to help you stand out in this crowded primary in 140 00:06:19,479 --> 00:06:22,516 a time when people are not necessarily paying 141 00:06:22,583 --> 00:06:25,185 attention to this race. >> Well, I will say this is 142 00:06:25,252 --> 00:06:27,988 probably the only time that we've talked about Missy 143 00:06:28,055 --> 00:06:30,190 Hughes and said her name more than once in a podcast. 144 00:06:30,257 --> 00:06:33,060 And for someone who has been polling in the low 145 00:06:33,126 --> 00:06:35,195 single digits, that matters. Not that we're going to 146 00:06:35,262 --> 00:06:37,965 sway the the voting public, but getting your name out 147 00:06:38,031 --> 00:06:41,001 and taking a stance, I think was a move for her to 148 00:06:41,068 --> 00:06:43,737 say, no, I will stand up for something as opposed to 149 00:06:43,804 --> 00:06:45,539 like David Crowley, whose name we haven't mentioned 150 00:06:45,606 --> 00:06:48,275 yet. He's running right in the middle of that primary. 151 00:06:48,342 --> 00:06:51,044 We saw the releases he put out about this bill before 152 00:06:51,111 --> 00:06:53,347 and after, and I still don't know 100% whether he 153 00:06:53,413 --> 00:06:56,316 liked it or didn't like it or was just kind of sitting 154 00:06:56,383 --> 00:06:59,186 in the middle on it, but I. Shawn, I want to ask you 155 00:06:59,253 --> 00:07:01,421 about the money thing, because we've seen the 156 00:07:01,488 --> 00:07:03,323 Legislative Fiscal Bureau numbers. That was something 157 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:05,459 that the Democrats put out there right away saying 158 00:07:05,526 --> 00:07:08,195 this was unsustainable. It wasn't real money. It would 159 00:07:08,262 --> 00:07:11,164 have set us up for a really bad budget. How much do you 160 00:07:11,231 --> 00:07:13,433 think that worked at the time for them, versus how 161 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:16,069 much? Was it a convenient excuse for them afterwards 162 00:07:16,136 --> 00:07:18,405 when they really voted it down because of power 163 00:07:18,472 --> 00:07:21,241 maneuvers? >> Oh, it could be a mix of 164 00:07:21,308 --> 00:07:23,610 both. I mean, if you look at the fiscal Bureau 165 00:07:23,677 --> 00:07:27,181 numbers, which Oneida did a great story on yesterday, 166 00:07:27,247 --> 00:07:30,651 that's a pretty real concern. You know, whether 167 00:07:30,717 --> 00:07:33,387 or not that was their primary concern for voting 168 00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:35,956 this thing down or what political calculations they 169 00:07:36,023 --> 00:07:40,561 made. I think when you're looking at a 2.95 billion 170 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:44,064 projected budget deficit at the end of the next two 171 00:07:44,131 --> 00:07:46,233 year budget, not the one we're in now, but the one 172 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:49,136 after that feels real to me on you. I mean, just 173 00:07:49,203 --> 00:07:50,771 looking through those numbers, right. 174 00:07:50,838 --> 00:07:53,207 >> And, you know, the sort of important caveat is that 175 00:07:53,273 --> 00:07:55,309 that number from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau 176 00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:57,945 doesn't take into account the fact that we are in a 177 00:07:58,011 --> 00:08:00,280 period of sort of remarkable economic 178 00:08:00,347 --> 00:08:03,183 so it says that we would have that deficit, that 179 00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:05,319 sort of almost $3 billion deficit were this to have 180 00:08:05,385 --> 00:08:07,621 passed. And that's not accounting for potential 181 00:08:07,688 --> 00:08:09,957 changes to tax revenue, to the fact that there's like 182 00:08:10,023 --> 00:08:12,693 a war going on right now that is affecting oil and 183 00:08:12,759 --> 00:08:14,795 gas prices, all these different things. And so 184 00:08:14,862 --> 00:08:17,464 from all of the Democrats who voted against it, and 185 00:08:17,531 --> 00:08:20,634 then also from the Republicans who voted 186 00:08:20,701 --> 00:08:22,769 concern about the cost of this thing, which was kind 187 00:08:22,836 --> 00:08:25,539 of nebulous. And so even with those kind of firmer 188 00:08:25,606 --> 00:08:27,741 numbers, it, you know, justifies, I think, what 189 00:08:27,808 --> 00:08:29,843 some of those lawmakers were saying on the floor. 190 00:08:29,910 --> 00:08:33,380 But it also kind of points to this place, again, 191 00:08:33,447 --> 00:08:35,616 political gamesmanship that we often see when it comes 192 00:08:35,682 --> 00:08:39,019 to appropriations, which is what is what is our money 193 00:08:39,086 --> 00:08:40,921 for? What is our state surplus for? Is it for 194 00:08:40,988 --> 00:08:43,891 things like this? Is it to have kind of in our back 195 00:08:43,957 --> 00:08:46,660 pockets? And so there was that was really the 196 00:08:46,727 --> 00:08:48,896 contours of the fight. >> You know, I think. 197 00:08:48,962 --> 00:08:51,064 >> Candidates come into office and they want to do 198 00:08:51,131 --> 00:08:54,001 things and they can just imagine how nice it would 199 00:08:54,067 --> 00:08:57,204 be to do things if everything goes their way 200 00:08:57,271 --> 00:09:01,308 in 2027 and their party was in control of the Senate, 201 00:09:01,375 --> 00:09:04,745 and who knows what else. And so probably they would 202 00:09:04,811 --> 00:09:06,914 like that money to spend on their priorities and don't 203 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:09,416 want to come into that situation running a deficit. 204 00:09:09,483 --> 00:09:13,253 So, you know, people become more budget hawks kind of 205 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,821 depending on the circumstances. I think from 206 00:09:14,888 --> 00:09:18,192 time to time, I will say one thing that stood out to 207 00:09:18,258 --> 00:09:22,029 me this week is Tony Evers did an interview with Wisn 208 00:09:22,095 --> 00:09:26,166 TV where, and we alluded to this a bit last week in 209 00:09:26,233 --> 00:09:28,435 terms of the way that the governor kind of pursued 210 00:09:28,502 --> 00:09:32,105 these negotiations, but he was straight up asked if he 211 00:09:32,172 --> 00:09:35,409 sought out Democratic votes on this bill, and he said, 212 00:09:35,475 --> 00:09:39,313 no, Zac, how do you do that in the Senate, given the, 213 00:09:39,379 --> 00:09:41,849 you know, political breakdown there? 214 00:09:41,915 --> 00:09:44,351 >> I mean, I would call it political malpractice in 215 00:09:44,418 --> 00:09:47,221 the sense that anyone who looks at that, apparently 216 00:09:47,287 --> 00:09:49,389 he was told that he had the Republican votes alone to 217 00:09:49,456 --> 00:09:52,192 pass it in that chamber. 1 it's surprising that he 218 00:09:52,259 --> 00:09:55,229 would count just on those. But especially given the 219 00:09:55,295 --> 00:09:57,598 two senators that we've talked about repeatedly in 220 00:09:57,664 --> 00:10:00,000 that chamber that have voted against every one of 221 00:10:00,067 --> 00:10:04,571 these proposals, including Senators Soros and Kapenga 222 00:10:04,638 --> 00:10:07,174 Nosse is leaving. We talked about it last week. There's 223 00:10:07,241 --> 00:10:10,244 no way he's going to be a yes vote on this. No one 224 00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:12,479 would ever believe that I. I don't care who you're 225 00:10:12,546 --> 00:10:15,282 talking to. But then that assumes that you're going 226 00:10:15,349 --> 00:10:18,218 to get Kapenga as well. And not to not to count Senator 227 00:10:18,285 --> 00:10:20,254 Hutten, who's also leaving the chamber, who voted no. 228 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,556 In the end, I think they thought maybe more likely 229 00:10:22,623 --> 00:10:25,192 they could have gotten him. But. CapEx Bongino in the 230 00:10:25,259 --> 00:10:27,427 last couple of budgets. So those are really big 231 00:10:27,494 --> 00:10:29,663 assumptions. At a time when you have Democrats over 232 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:32,266 there, why not reach out and say, hey, if we need 233 00:10:32,332 --> 00:10:34,334 you, will you be there? Because we mentioned a 234 00:10:34,401 --> 00:10:36,870 couple of names for Democrats, vulnerable 235 00:10:36,937 --> 00:10:38,438 Democrats that are up for election this session and 236 00:10:38,505 --> 00:10:41,375 Jeff Smith, and why would you not reach out and say, 237 00:10:41,441 --> 00:10:44,378 hey, can we count on you if we need to? You don't even 238 00:10:44,444 --> 00:10:46,346 have to necessarily offer them anything, but clue 239 00:10:46,413 --> 00:10:49,249 them in and make them feel like they're part of the 240 00:10:49,316 --> 00:10:52,085 team. So the fact that he said he didn't, it seems 241 00:10:52,152 --> 00:10:54,922 really strange. into negotiations, counting 242 00:10:54,988 --> 00:10:57,424 on one of those two lawmakers you just 243 00:10:57,491 --> 00:11:01,695 mentioned to vote for your deal. We did get a question 244 00:11:01,762 --> 00:11:04,731 from someone in our audience that feels timely 245 00:11:04,798 --> 00:11:08,001 right now. This came from a student at the University 246 00:11:08,068 --> 00:11:09,903 of Wisconsin, La Crosse, where they watch our show 247 00:11:09,970 --> 00:11:12,105 in their legislative process class. Here's her 248 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:15,409 question about special sessions. 249 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,278 >> My name is Katie and I'm studying political science 250 00:11:18,345 --> 00:11:21,448 at UW-La Crosse. My question is, why have there 251 00:11:21,515 --> 00:11:24,117 been so many special sessions called by Governor 252 00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:26,620 Evers? And does this trend signal breakdown in normal 253 00:11:26,687 --> 00:11:29,289 legislative compromise, or is it simply a strategic 254 00:11:29,356 --> 00:11:32,259 political tool? >> All right. Well, we have 255 00:11:32,326 --> 00:11:35,462 all covered our share of special sessions now. And 256 00:11:35,529 --> 00:11:38,298 so let's all just chime in on this. But Anya, you 257 00:11:38,365 --> 00:11:40,367 first, how would you answer this question about special 258 00:11:40,434 --> 00:11:42,069 sessions? >> I mean, again, I think 259 00:11:42,135 --> 00:11:44,204 that they are often a messaging tool and 260 00:11:44,271 --> 00:11:46,874 especially in divided Democrats are never going 261 00:11:46,940 --> 00:11:49,276 to get their bills on the floor while Republicans 262 00:11:49,343 --> 00:11:52,179 control it, or at least they're sort of values 263 00:11:52,246 --> 00:11:54,882 first, their top priorities on the floor. This is a way 264 00:11:54,948 --> 00:11:57,284 for the Democratic governor to signal what is most 265 00:11:57,351 --> 00:11:59,486 important to him by calling these special sessions, and 266 00:11:59,553 --> 00:12:02,055 then also, if he does it on things that, again, are 267 00:12:02,122 --> 00:12:04,925 kind of widely popular no matter how you vote, he can 268 00:12:04,992 --> 00:12:07,594 force votes on certain issues. So he can for 269 00:12:07,661 --> 00:12:10,163 example, he he called a special session a few years 270 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:12,833 ago on child care, trying to force Republicans to 271 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:15,602 vote in a way that could then get messaged as 272 00:12:15,669 --> 00:12:17,671 Republicans don't care whether you get child care. 273 00:12:17,738 --> 00:12:20,641 And so that's one use of it. But I will say I have only 274 00:12:20,707 --> 00:12:22,609 ever covered special sessions under divided 275 00:12:22,676 --> 00:12:24,711 government. I have only ever covered Evers special 276 00:12:24,778 --> 00:12:27,014 sessions. So I'm curious for you guys who have 277 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,317 covered when Republicans controlled the legislature 278 00:12:30,384 --> 00:12:32,519 and the governor's office, when they worked in tandem, 279 00:12:32,586 --> 00:12:34,922 the Walker years, what did special sessions look like 280 00:12:34,988 --> 00:12:36,924 then? >> Derrick. I seem to 281 00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:39,226 remember a pretty big special session when 282 00:12:39,293 --> 00:12:42,663 Governor Scott Walker was sworn in, actually, the day 283 00:12:42,729 --> 00:12:45,999 of his inauguration. He. He declared a special session 284 00:12:46,066 --> 00:12:48,202 on jobs. I think he called it. 285 00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:50,804 >> Yeah, that seemed to be pretty, pretty big. Some 286 00:12:50,871 --> 00:12:53,340 acts came out of that that still resonate with a lot 287 00:12:53,407 --> 00:12:55,609 of the public and may bring up some traumatic memories 288 00:12:55,676 --> 00:12:58,312 for a lot of people who marched around the Capitol 289 00:12:58,378 --> 00:13:00,681 during those act ten protests. Yeah, in that era, 290 00:13:00,747 --> 00:13:03,717 I mean, we have to look back in 25 years of my time 291 00:13:03,784 --> 00:13:06,553 covering this legislature, there has been one session 292 00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:09,089 in which there was truly divided government in the 293 00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:10,591 legislature, in which Republicans held a chamber, 294 00:13:10,657 --> 00:13:13,794 and the Democrats held a chamber. So most of the 295 00:13:13,861 --> 00:13:16,029 time, the past two and a half decades, we've looked 296 00:13:16,096 --> 00:13:19,066 at this, there hasn't been compromised necessary in 297 00:13:19,132 --> 00:13:21,468 the legislature. It's come between the executive and 298 00:13:21,535 --> 00:13:25,005 the legislative branches. So special sessions are one 299 00:13:25,072 --> 00:13:27,941 way for a governor to draw attention to what they need 300 00:13:28,008 --> 00:13:30,711 to. And I asked Governor Evers about this a couple 301 00:13:30,777 --> 00:13:33,547 of years ago when he was calling him left and right, 302 00:13:33,614 --> 00:13:35,682 and he only has a couple opportunities to actually 303 00:13:35,749 --> 00:13:37,751 bring attention to what he wants. He can write a 304 00:13:37,818 --> 00:13:41,655 budget which he knows will get immediately trashed, 305 00:13:41,722 --> 00:13:43,690 and introduce his values, his principles, and say, 306 00:13:43,757 --> 00:13:46,627 this is what I would like to see happen. And then he 307 00:13:46,693 --> 00:13:48,729 can call special sessions. Other than that, that is 308 00:13:48,795 --> 00:13:51,598 his only legal power to do something in the Capitol. 309 00:13:51,665 --> 00:13:53,567 The rest of the time, it's the bully pulpit and going 310 00:13:53,634 --> 00:13:56,770 around and talking to the media. 311 00:13:56,837 --> 00:13:58,939 would have answered Katie's question differently a few 312 00:13:59,006 --> 00:14:02,476 weeks ago than I would now. And and that is to say that 313 00:14:02,543 --> 00:14:04,811 a few weeks ago I would have said that special 314 00:14:04,878 --> 00:14:07,281 sessions from this governor are basically all about 315 00:14:07,347 --> 00:14:09,816 messaging, that they are all about forcing 316 00:14:09,883 --> 00:14:12,519 Republicans to take a position against his 317 00:14:12,586 --> 00:14:15,088 priorities or to get his priorities on the record. I 318 00:14:15,155 --> 00:14:17,057 would say this last special session that he called, 319 00:14:17,124 --> 00:14:20,194 where he brought Republicans in to pass a 320 00:14:20,260 --> 00:14:23,297 deal, he thought that they negotiated. That's kind of 321 00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:25,999 a special session, as the founders intended, or the 322 00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,635 framers of the state constitution would have 323 00:14:28,702 --> 00:14:32,739 intended, where, look, the regular sessions done or 324 00:14:32,806 --> 00:14:35,609 are calendar days are done. We have this big issue we 325 00:14:35,676 --> 00:14:38,345 want to deal with, and we just ran out of time with, 326 00:14:38,412 --> 00:14:41,415 let's let's agree to come back in for a special 327 00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:43,550 session of the legislature. And it's more ceremonial. 2 328 00:14:43,617 --> 00:14:46,720 you had everybody actually in the building versus most 329 00:14:46,787 --> 00:14:49,590 special sessions like the one on gerrymandering, for 330 00:14:49,656 --> 00:14:52,392 example, that was for show. And by the way, they 331 00:14:52,459 --> 00:14:55,529 gaveled that out last Thursday, kind of when 332 00:14:55,596 --> 00:14:58,632 nobody was paying attention. That was done. That was one 333 00:14:58,699 --> 00:15:00,467 where the governor wanted to highlight an issue, said, 334 00:15:00,534 --> 00:15:02,569 let's end partisan gerrymandering. And 335 00:15:02,636 --> 00:15:05,706 Republicans said, we'll consider it and not anymore. 336 00:15:05,772 --> 00:15:07,708 It's gaveled out. >> Yeah. And the way that 337 00:15:07,774 --> 00:15:10,677 Republicans can respond to the governor trying to call 338 00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:13,714 attention to something is what's called a skeletal 339 00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:15,883 session. Which two of them come in, they gavel it in, 340 00:15:15,949 --> 00:15:18,819 they gavel it out. They don't even have to bring 341 00:15:18,886 --> 00:15:20,988 everyone to do the thing. So that's the response to 342 00:15:21,054 --> 00:15:23,690 we want attention on this. You want attention, we'll 343 00:15:23,757 --> 00:15:25,826 give you an empty dark chamber. We literally won't 344 00:15:25,893 --> 00:15:27,961 turn the lights on. That's how little attention we'll 345 00:15:28,028 --> 00:15:30,864 pay to it. But it is all about politics. It all. It 346 00:15:30,931 --> 00:15:33,700 is entirely about optics. This last one was a little 347 00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:36,470 different, and the thing that's probably deceiving 348 00:15:36,537 --> 00:15:38,939 legally called special calls them, or 349 00:15:39,006 --> 00:15:40,774 extraordinary sessions in the legislature calls them. 350 00:15:40,841 --> 00:15:42,876 Those are just names. All it means is it happens 351 00:15:42,943 --> 00:15:44,678 outside the regular calendar. Republicans two 352 00:15:44,745 --> 00:15:46,747 years ago declared the calendar was going to be 353 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:49,049 done in March. So nine months to campaign. That's 354 00:15:49,116 --> 00:15:52,753 the only reason. It's not regular session. It's 355 00:15:52,819 --> 00:15:54,788 special time in the Capitol that people will remember. 356 00:15:54,855 --> 00:15:57,791 >> Yeah. Yes they will. If you want to ask us a 357 00:15:57,858 --> 00:15:59,927 question about state government or politics, 358 00:15:59,993 --> 00:16:04,064 send us an email at Inside Wisconsin Politics at wpri 359 00:16:04,131 --> 00:16:08,802 dot before we wrap up here, I did want to talk about 360 00:16:08,869 --> 00:16:12,005 the campaign for governor. On the Republican side. We 361 00:16:12,072 --> 00:16:16,376 had a state GOP convention over this past weekend. Tom 362 00:16:16,443 --> 00:16:18,445 Tiffany is now the endorsed candidate. He doesn't have 363 00:16:18,512 --> 00:16:20,747 to worry about a primary the way that the candidates 364 00:16:20,814 --> 00:16:24,818 had to in 2022, so he can focus on the general 365 00:16:25,419 --> 00:16:29,690 election now. And yet, Zac, we're talking about the 366 00:16:29,756 --> 00:16:32,459 2020 election here. What is Tom Tiffany talking about? 367 00:16:32,526 --> 00:16:35,662 >> He cannot get away from Trump's main grievance, 368 00:16:35,729 --> 00:16:38,665 which is the fact that he lost to Joe Biden in 2020. 369 00:16:38,732 --> 00:16:41,235 And because he still has such a powerful grip over 370 00:16:41,301 --> 00:16:43,570 the Republican Party nationally, which we just 371 00:16:43,637 --> 00:16:46,540 saw in Republican primaries in Kentucky and in 372 00:16:46,607 --> 00:16:49,476 Louisiana Senate races, that his people have to 373 00:16:49,543 --> 00:16:52,646 fall in line on his beliefs or his incorrect beliefs 374 00:16:52,713 --> 00:16:55,482 that the 2020 election was stolen. So Tom Tiffany is 375 00:16:55,549 --> 00:16:58,886 still answering questions about election fraud 376 00:16:58,952 --> 00:17:01,355 investigations and whether Joe Biden won the election 377 00:17:01,421 --> 00:17:03,924 with, you know, kind of diffusing or deferring and 378 00:17:03,991 --> 00:17:06,460 trying to get away from it because he can't come out 379 00:17:06,527 --> 00:17:08,462 and honestly say, no, of course Trump lost. That's 380 00:17:08,529 --> 00:17:10,697 been warranted over and over. Every Republican 381 00:17:10,764 --> 00:17:13,534 group out there, from Vos to the Wisconsin Institute 382 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,270 for Law and Liberty has already said so. And that 383 00:17:16,336 --> 00:17:18,372 is something that Democrats love to hear, because they 384 00:17:18,438 --> 00:17:21,241 will continue to hang that around his neck all the way 385 00:17:21,308 --> 00:17:23,410 to November as much as they possibly can, the closer 386 00:17:23,477 --> 00:17:25,646 they tie him to Donald Trump. And these grievances 387 00:17:25,712 --> 00:17:28,315 from four years, six years ago now that the better off 388 00:17:28,382 --> 00:17:31,251 it is for them. >> And Ana just real quick, 389 00:17:31,318 --> 00:17:34,288 I mean, it seems like this is an issue where as much 390 00:17:34,354 --> 00:17:37,257 as he wants to go for those handful of voters who are 391 00:17:37,324 --> 00:17:39,927 in the middle, this is a line that he can't cross as 392 00:17:39,993 --> 00:17:42,429 far as Republicans are concerned. 393 00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:45,432 one of the lessons from this week is that in state 394 00:17:45,499 --> 00:17:48,335 politics, it's not the time if you are a Republican to 395 00:17:48,402 --> 00:17:51,371 be bucking Trump. And so we are seeing him sort of tie 396 00:17:51,438 --> 00:17:53,440 himself again to this issue. And it'll be interesting to 397 00:17:53,507 --> 00:17:57,044 see how much does that motivate his Republican 398 00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:59,613 that turn off those moderate voters and 399 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,282 >> Absolutely. That's all the time we have for today. 400 00:18:02,349 --> 00:18:04,351 Thanks for joining us. This has been inside Wisconsin 401 00:18:04,418 --> 00:18:06,119 politics. Our colleague Rich Kremer will be back 402 00:18:06,186 --> 00:18:08,322 next week. Be sure to follow us on PBS 403 00:18:08,388 --> 00:18:10,724 wisconsin.org. WPR.org, YouTube, or wherever you 404 00:18:10,791 --> 00:18:12,593 get your podcasts.