1 00:00:00,767 --> 00:00:03,403 Wisconsin Republicans convene a 2 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:04,638 special session on gerrymandering and nothing 3 00:00:04,705 --> 00:00:07,574 gerrymandering and nothing really happens. But what 4 00:00:07,641 --> 00:00:10,377 does it mean that they kept the session open? Plus, 5 00:00:10,444 --> 00:00:13,947 another key GOP senator retires and the race for 6 00:00:14,014 --> 00:00:16,416 governor picks up steam. This is Inside Wisconsin 7 00:00:16,483 --> 00:00:18,151 Politics. 8 00:00:21,388 --> 00:00:24,224 I'm Shawn Johnson here with my colleagues, 9 00:00:24,291 --> 00:00:26,460 Anya van Wagtendonk Zac Schultz and Rich Cramer in 10 00:00:26,527 --> 00:00:29,963 Eau Claire. Hey, everyone. >> Hello, Shawn. Hey. 11 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:32,266 >> So, Anya, I think there's actually a lot to 12 00:00:32,332 --> 00:00:35,135 kind of pick apart in terms of why Republicans did what 13 00:00:35,202 --> 00:00:37,571 they did with this session and what this issue means 14 00:00:37,638 --> 00:00:40,841 to the parties this year. But first, for people who 15 00:00:40,908 --> 00:00:44,878 have not experienced the drama of a special session, 16 00:00:44,945 --> 00:00:47,648 I think maybe they hear that word special and 17 00:00:47,714 --> 00:00:50,017 assume it is kind of a big deal. What's it actually 18 00:00:50,083 --> 00:00:53,420 like in the room where this happens? 19 00:00:53,954 --> 00:00:56,089 regular sessions, I think something that not a lot of 20 00:00:56,156 --> 00:00:58,258 people know is that there are very few surprises 21 00:00:58,325 --> 00:01:00,360 during a regular session. Right? If something is 22 00:01:00,427 --> 00:01:03,030 coming to the floor, that means the majority wants it 23 00:01:03,096 --> 00:01:06,066 there. Generally speaking, going to happen with a 24 00:01:06,133 --> 00:01:08,035 special session, and especially this time around, 25 00:01:08,101 --> 00:01:10,637 where Republicans hadn't signaled in advance that 26 00:01:10,704 --> 00:01:13,640 they hated the idea. There was really an open question 27 00:01:13,707 --> 00:01:16,109 of exactly what was going to happen on that day. So 28 00:01:16,176 --> 00:01:19,079 going into it, I kind of needed to be in two places 29 00:01:19,146 --> 00:01:22,015 at once. I needed to be in both the Assembly and the 30 00:01:22,082 --> 00:01:24,017 Senate. And then thankfully, Assembly leadership sent 31 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:26,186 out a message saying, we're going to keep this open, 32 00:01:26,253 --> 00:01:28,989 but that's so that we can have negotiations. So okay, 33 00:01:29,056 --> 00:01:32,025 so that signals that like, maybe I don't need to be in 34 00:01:32,092 --> 00:01:34,928 the assembly. So we go over to the Senate. That's where 35 00:01:34,995 --> 00:01:37,130 all of the reporters are waiting to see what exactly 36 00:01:37,197 --> 00:01:39,967 is going to happen in the Senate. And then there was 37 00:01:40,033 --> 00:01:42,035 just a lot of waiting around. Only Democrats were 38 00:01:42,102 --> 00:01:43,904 showing up. Finally, Democrats hold a press 39 00:01:43,971 --> 00:01:45,873 conference to kind of criticize their colleagues 40 00:01:45,939 --> 00:01:47,941 across the aisle saying they're not doing anything. 41 00:01:48,008 --> 00:01:50,077 Republican leaders show up and say, we too are leaving 42 00:01:50,143 --> 00:01:52,980 the session open. And so the end result is that it 43 00:01:53,046 --> 00:01:55,649 was a whole lot of waiting around for nothing but the 44 00:01:55,716 --> 00:01:59,319 nothing could become reached sort of 45 00:01:59,386 --> 00:02:02,155 negotiations with the governor and then reconvene 46 00:02:02,222 --> 00:02:04,791 at some point in the future. >> And I can tell you, 47 00:02:04,858 --> 00:02:07,661 because we did team coverage on this one in the 48 00:02:07,728 --> 00:02:09,963 Assembly, it was a whole lot of milling about would 49 00:02:10,030 --> 00:02:12,866 be the way I'd describe it. I don't think they even had 50 00:02:12,933 --> 00:02:14,968 gavels this time, which feels like it's really kind 51 00:02:15,035 --> 00:02:17,704 of a pretty, pretty chill in there. So, okay, the 52 00:02:17,771 --> 00:02:21,141 special session was not all that dramatic, but the 53 00:02:21,208 --> 00:02:25,479 important thing is this thing is technically open. 54 00:02:25,546 --> 00:02:29,950 So, Zac, I guess my question is, why is that? 55 00:02:30,017 --> 00:02:32,286 I'm. Maybe it's just muscle memory, but I just am used 56 00:02:32,352 --> 00:02:35,155 to this Republican legislature being pretty 57 00:02:35,222 --> 00:02:37,558 comfortable telling this governor, don't tell us 58 00:02:37,624 --> 00:02:39,960 what to do. >> Well, there's only one 59 00:02:40,027 --> 00:02:42,863 of two reasons why to keep it open. One, because maybe 60 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:44,998 they actually want to do something and B, be good to 61 00:02:45,065 --> 00:02:47,835 their word and negotiate and try and pass this 62 00:02:47,901 --> 00:02:50,938 constitutional amendment or it open are important to 63 00:02:51,004 --> 00:02:54,308 their base and their voters, because redistricting and 64 00:02:54,374 --> 00:02:56,910 gerrymandering is an especially this time around, 65 00:02:56,977 --> 00:03:00,080 it's Republican voters who understand, oh, this is why 66 00:03:00,147 --> 00:03:02,249 we're potentially losing the Senate, and we lost a 67 00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:05,285 bunch of races in the seat. It doesn't feel good to be 68 00:03:05,352 --> 00:03:08,188 on this end of it. And so maybe since both sides have 69 00:03:08,255 --> 00:03:10,457 felt the effects of when it's not in your favor, 70 00:03:10,524 --> 00:03:13,060 that perhaps there's an idea of, hey, let's come to 71 00:03:13,126 --> 00:03:15,229 a compromise and try and resolve this. 72 00:03:15,295 --> 00:03:18,165 >> Rich, what do you think? Is this a real session here? 73 00:03:18,232 --> 00:03:21,235 Could something actually >> I suppose it could. This. 74 00:03:21,301 --> 00:03:24,137 There's been a lot of surprises in the this 75 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:27,774 session and the end of the last session for me. I 76 00:03:27,841 --> 00:03:32,145 started working at WP in 2011 about. And you know, 77 00:03:32,212 --> 00:03:36,383 I'm used to seeing Gavelin gavel out, essentially 78 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:39,152 saying thanks, but no thanks from the Republicans 79 00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:42,289 saying that to Governor Tony Evers. But we've got 80 00:03:42,356 --> 00:03:46,393 these new state legislative maps. You know, control of 81 00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:48,862 the Senate is a big question mark after the 82 00:03:48,929 --> 00:03:52,633 November election. So they're just acting 83 00:03:52,699 --> 00:03:55,802 differently. What it means. I don't know what happens. 84 00:03:55,869 --> 00:03:59,139 I really don't know. >> You know, coming back to 85 00:03:59,206 --> 00:04:01,375 the optics that you mentioned there, I feel 86 00:04:01,441 --> 00:04:05,312 like that is probably a big factor. You know, whatever 87 00:04:05,379 --> 00:04:08,815 ends up being decided here. Just thinking back to 2024, 88 00:04:08,882 --> 00:04:11,919 which was the first year that we had elections under 89 00:04:11,985 --> 00:04:14,688 these new, more competitive legislative maps. And I got 90 00:04:14,755 --> 00:04:17,491 to edit a bunch of stories from reporters around the 91 00:04:17,558 --> 00:04:20,060 state. And I swear, the number one thing I heard in 92 00:04:20,127 --> 00:04:22,196 every story from these candidates in these 93 00:04:22,262 --> 00:04:25,699 contested districts, these 5050 districts, was voters 94 00:04:25,766 --> 00:04:28,635 want candidates who will work across the aisle and 95 00:04:28,702 --> 00:04:31,471 not, you know, get into these fights in Madison, 96 00:04:31,538 --> 00:04:34,741 Wisconsin. So if you're trying to do what's best 97 00:04:34,808 --> 00:04:37,845 for those candidates right now, why not keep it open? 98 00:04:37,911 --> 00:04:41,215 You know, why not keep that an option for them to at 99 00:04:41,281 --> 00:04:44,651 least talk about? Ana, did you get the sense that the 100 00:04:44,718 --> 00:04:46,887 governor kind of saw that too, with the statement 101 00:04:46,954 --> 00:04:51,592 that he put out after this session? It was pretty like, 102 00:04:51,658 --> 00:04:53,927 get going. You know, get yourselves in gear here. 103 00:04:53,994 --> 00:04:55,696 >> The statement that said there is actually nothing 104 00:04:55,762 --> 00:04:58,498 to negotiate. While we are wondering whether he and 105 00:04:58,565 --> 00:05:00,567 Republicans are in the middle of negotiations 106 00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:02,736 around this language, yeah, it does kind of raise the 107 00:05:02,803 --> 00:05:04,838 question of what those negotiations will look like 108 00:05:04,905 --> 00:05:07,674 and to what extent. This is about sort of a messaging 109 00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:09,776 war going into this election year. One of the 110 00:05:09,843 --> 00:05:12,045 things that he also said in that statement was, you 111 00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:14,715 know, lawmakers will have to go on the record about 112 00:05:14,781 --> 00:05:16,717 their feeling about gerrymandering. And so if 113 00:05:16,783 --> 00:05:18,819 they don't, if they don't hold this session, if they 114 00:05:18,886 --> 00:05:21,688 don't go to the floor, that is a statement. And so 115 00:05:21,755 --> 00:05:23,824 really trying to, again, kind of put the onus on 116 00:05:23,891 --> 00:05:25,926 Republicans who are, especially in the Senate, 117 00:05:25,993 --> 00:05:28,462 quite vulnerable right now to make the point to their 118 00:05:28,529 --> 00:05:31,899 voters where they stand on this issue. 119 00:05:31,965 --> 00:05:34,835 the skeptic here for one more minute here as to why 120 00:05:34,902 --> 00:05:37,804 they might not want to do this. This is a Republican 121 00:05:37,871 --> 00:05:39,673 legislature. We've been talking about how the 122 00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:41,575 Supreme Court has this liberal majority that could 123 00:05:41,642 --> 00:05:44,011 be there for years. The resolution that the 124 00:05:44,077 --> 00:05:47,314 governor is proposing just says, basically, districts 125 00:05:47,381 --> 00:05:49,983 shall not provide a disproportionate advantage. 126 00:05:50,050 --> 00:05:52,719 Partisan gerrymandering is prohibited. It's pretty 127 00:05:52,786 --> 00:05:54,855 thin. Who's going to interpret that if they 128 00:05:54,922 --> 00:05:56,456 passed it? >> Well, there's only two 129 00:05:56,523 --> 00:05:59,393 ways to interpret it. One is they actually negotiate 130 00:05:59,459 --> 00:06:01,962 state law. That gives a definition for what that 131 00:06:02,029 --> 00:06:03,997 means. That could be the negotiations happening as a 132 00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:06,767 a parallel bill, if that was actually going to be 133 00:06:06,834 --> 00:06:08,669 resolved through the legislature and the 134 00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:10,871 it's going to be the Supreme Court. And 135 00:06:10,938 --> 00:06:12,873 ultimately, no matter what gets passed, it'll be the 136 00:06:12,940 --> 00:06:15,509 Supreme Court, because these would be added to the 137 00:06:15,576 --> 00:06:18,679 Wisconsin Constitution. This would be a 138 00:06:18,745 --> 00:06:21,748 constitutional amendment, big language that does not 139 00:06:21,815 --> 00:06:24,218 have definitions so far in state law. And that really 140 00:06:24,284 --> 00:06:26,520 would be a liberal Supreme Court, more than likely 141 00:06:26,587 --> 00:06:28,789 coming back to say, well, this is what we determined 142 00:06:28,856 --> 00:06:30,724 to be partizan gerrymandering or this is 143 00:06:30,791 --> 00:06:33,927 what we think is an advantage for Partizans. 144 00:06:33,994 --> 00:06:36,530 >> Rich, what happens when you invite a court to start 145 00:06:36,597 --> 00:06:40,400 talking about statistics and mathematics? 146 00:06:40,467 --> 00:06:44,404 >> Oh, you know, like a three year court trial. I'm 147 00:06:44,471 --> 00:06:47,574 exaggerating. But what also happens is the courts have 148 00:06:47,641 --> 00:06:50,677 generally not wanted to touch this, this claim, 149 00:06:50,744 --> 00:06:53,080 this partizan gerrymandering claim from 150 00:06:53,146 --> 00:06:56,149 the U.S. Supreme Court to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. 151 00:06:56,216 --> 00:06:58,619 They've just wanted to avoid it. And if we look 152 00:06:58,685 --> 00:07:02,422 back to when the legislative maps passed by 153 00:07:02,489 --> 00:07:04,925 Republicans in 2011 were struck down, they didn't do 154 00:07:04,992 --> 00:07:07,895 it. They didn't take up the partisan gerrymandering 155 00:07:07,961 --> 00:07:11,098 claim. They got around that by looking at contiguity of 156 00:07:11,164 --> 00:07:13,934 districts. Whether or not one district has a piece in 157 00:07:14,001 --> 00:07:18,172 another. So that was, in a way, a technicality. They 158 00:07:18,238 --> 00:07:20,841 did get to the same place that the plaintiffs wanted, 159 00:07:20,908 --> 00:07:25,078 which was new maps, but it took a bit of a roundabout 160 00:07:25,145 --> 00:07:27,381 way to get there. >> Okay, before we move on 161 00:07:27,447 --> 00:07:30,284 from this, can we just kind of explore the possibility 162 00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:33,253 that maybe there would be a scenario where Republicans 163 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,590 really would look at the situation and say, hey, 164 00:07:36,657 --> 00:07:38,859 let's pass this. Let's make a deal with the governor. 165 00:07:38,926 --> 00:07:42,863 Let's say it's November after the election. How 166 00:07:42,930 --> 00:07:46,066 might that play out? >> I think the biggest 167 00:07:46,133 --> 00:07:48,769 variable is who wins in November. Because remember, 168 00:07:48,836 --> 00:07:50,838 constitutional amendments need two consecutive 169 00:07:50,904 --> 00:07:54,875 sessions so this legislature can pass it all 170 00:07:54,942 --> 00:07:58,078 the way through December 31st. But then the next 171 00:07:58,145 --> 00:08:00,647 legislature, which will be made up in November 172 00:08:00,714 --> 00:08:02,816 elections, will determine whether it gets passed 173 00:08:02,883 --> 00:08:04,852 again. And so that's the key element there. Is there 174 00:08:04,918 --> 00:08:08,288 a scenario where the winners in the fall 175 00:08:08,355 --> 00:08:10,624 indicate we would like to actually pass this? And so 176 00:08:10,691 --> 00:08:13,260 there's incentive to do it in a lame duck, possibly. 177 00:08:13,327 --> 00:08:15,295 >> If if they don't have the majority, maybe they 178 00:08:15,362 --> 00:08:17,331 say this is their best outcome. 179 00:08:17,397 --> 00:08:19,233 >> Possibly. >> Okay, well, we've 180 00:08:19,299 --> 00:08:23,437 already seen the current map kind of having an 181 00:08:23,504 --> 00:08:26,106 effect on the upcoming races here, especially in 182 00:08:26,173 --> 00:08:28,775 the state Senate, where we know, you know, majority 183 00:08:28,842 --> 00:08:32,379 control is going to hinge on who wins for state 184 00:08:32,446 --> 00:08:35,215 Senate seats. Rich, you're sitting in one of those 185 00:08:35,282 --> 00:08:37,751 districts right now, I believe. And there was some 186 00:08:37,818 --> 00:08:40,287 news there this week. What happened? 187 00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:43,290 >> Well, first let me take you on a tour of the 31st 188 00:08:43,357 --> 00:08:47,828 Senate District. So what happened was one of the 189 00:08:47,895 --> 00:08:51,999 Republicans in a race for the 31st or the Republican 190 00:08:52,065 --> 00:08:54,334 in the race for the 31st Senate district announced 191 00:08:54,401 --> 00:08:58,705 that he's dropping out. He's not going to run 192 00:08:58,772 --> 00:09:03,544 against Democrat Jeff Smith. So this was Senator Jesse 193 00:09:03,610 --> 00:09:06,513 James, and he was in a different district. But 194 00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:10,150 because of the the map redrawing, he was going to 195 00:09:10,217 --> 00:09:14,821 have to face Smith. So two incumbents. But now you've 196 00:09:14,888 --> 00:09:17,224 got one incumbent. You've got the Democrat in the 197 00:09:17,291 --> 00:09:19,193 race who's already represented the district, 198 00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:23,096 even though it's changed a little bit. So big picture 199 00:09:23,163 --> 00:09:27,568 when the maps were redrawn. There's four Senate 200 00:09:27,634 --> 00:09:30,037 districts that are deemed competitive that it's it's 201 00:09:30,103 --> 00:09:34,374 really kind of a coin flip or just about. And we've 202 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:38,612 seen retirements from three of the Republicans in four 203 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,883 of those districts. And, you know, that in and of 204 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:45,519 itself is a big signal for how people are feeling 205 00:09:45,586 --> 00:09:49,823 about the fall election. So I guess in a way, it 206 00:09:50,824 --> 00:09:53,927 complicates Republicans chances of holding the 207 00:09:53,994 --> 00:09:56,897 Senate majority and definitely gives some fuel 208 00:09:56,964 --> 00:09:58,932 to Democrats who are getting pretty excited 209 00:09:58,999 --> 00:10:02,703 about November. >> So we have elections to 210 00:10:02,769 --> 00:10:05,038 that are going to have to take place before we get 211 00:10:05,105 --> 00:10:07,074 the answers to these questions. But, Anya, I 212 00:10:07,140 --> 00:10:09,076 would suspect that Senate Republicans would have 213 00:10:09,142 --> 00:10:11,778 preferred to run these races in these, you know, 214 00:10:11,845 --> 00:10:16,049 three of these four key seats with Senators Hutton, 215 00:10:16,116 --> 00:10:20,053 with Senator James, with Senator Wanggaard, you know, 216 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,755 what position are they in now? 217 00:10:21,822 --> 00:10:24,458 >> I mean, it's interesting, like there's a mix of 218 00:10:24,525 --> 00:10:26,393 reasons why these lawmakers have said that they are 219 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:28,962 stepping down. Again, as Rich just alluded to, 220 00:10:29,029 --> 00:10:30,864 Democrats are trying to spin this as, you know, 221 00:10:30,931 --> 00:10:33,700 they're kind of running scared. But it is it raises 222 00:10:33,767 --> 00:10:36,170 sort of the question of who will then run in their 223 00:10:36,236 --> 00:10:39,873 spots. So Jesse James is a really interesting example. 224 00:10:39,940 --> 00:10:42,676 He has worked quite a bit across the aisle. He's been 225 00:10:42,743 --> 00:10:44,745 a real leader on criminal justice issues. One of my 226 00:10:44,811 --> 00:10:47,714 favorite sort of fun facts is that he and Madison 227 00:10:47,781 --> 00:10:49,783 Democrat Sheila Stubbs are like best friends, and they 228 00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:52,719 do a lot of work together. He's done a lot on mental 229 00:10:52,786 --> 00:10:55,589 health, and so he is a really different kind of 230 00:10:55,656 --> 00:10:57,824 Republican than you might see in, let's say, suburban 231 00:10:57,891 --> 00:11:01,695 Milwaukee or something like this. And so the question 232 00:11:01,762 --> 00:11:03,797 think Zac has made this point before that when 233 00:11:03,864 --> 00:11:06,066 you're in the minority and when you are kind of 234 00:11:06,133 --> 00:11:10,671 pushing up against a less likely scenario, more sort 235 00:11:10,737 --> 00:11:13,640 of fringe candidates or people further to the left 236 00:11:13,707 --> 00:11:16,276 or the right tend to be the ones who come forward. And 237 00:11:16,343 --> 00:11:18,512 so there will be a really interesting question to see 238 00:11:18,579 --> 00:11:21,148 who is entering these races in November and what that 239 00:11:21,215 --> 00:11:23,183 does for who's wanting to vote in November. 240 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:25,252 >> We already have our first answer in this 241 00:11:25,319 --> 00:11:27,321 particular race, the first Republican to announce 242 00:11:27,387 --> 00:11:30,591 they're going to run her. Her middle name is MAGA 243 00:11:30,657 --> 00:11:33,360 Dance, and she put that on all of her campaign signs 244 00:11:33,427 --> 00:11:35,529 two years ago when she ran and lost in an assembly 245 00:11:35,596 --> 00:11:37,831 race. And you cannot connect yourself literally 246 00:11:37,898 --> 00:11:40,534 more closely by putting your name and making it 247 00:11:40,601 --> 00:11:43,504 close to Trump's Maga movement. And that is who 248 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:45,606 is running in that Republican district, which 249 00:11:45,672 --> 00:11:49,009 is now drawn to be Democrat, has a Democrat incumbent. 250 00:11:49,076 --> 00:11:52,145 And as we've talked about over and over on this show, 251 00:11:52,212 --> 00:11:54,982 you don't have to look any more past what the 252 00:11:55,048 --> 00:11:57,518 candidates do. And when they are not running, that 253 00:11:57,584 --> 00:11:59,253 tells you they know the environment they're up 254 00:11:59,319 --> 00:12:01,755 against. Every one of them will have their own 255 00:12:01,822 --> 00:12:03,991 individual story, but the larger picture gives us a 256 00:12:04,057 --> 00:12:06,527 pretty clear roadmap of what Republicans think of 257 00:12:06,593 --> 00:12:09,730 their odds in the Senate specifically. But to go 258 00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:12,366 back to Robyn Vos holding the assembly for all those 259 00:12:12,432 --> 00:12:15,636 years, we saw a number of elections in 18 and in 22, 260 00:12:15,702 --> 00:12:18,071 where top of the ballot, Tammy Baldwin or Tony Evers 261 00:12:18,138 --> 00:12:20,707 would win some of those Republican Assembly seats 262 00:12:20,774 --> 00:12:23,043 and Republicans down ballot won them. And in part was 263 00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:26,013 because incumbents name recognition, fundraising 264 00:12:26,079 --> 00:12:28,248 ability. And when you have people drop out, you lose 265 00:12:28,315 --> 00:12:31,118 all of that. You don't have the name. You don't have 266 00:12:31,185 --> 00:12:33,187 the person that knows how to knock the doors, that 267 00:12:33,253 --> 00:12:35,255 has the community connections, and they don't 268 00:12:35,322 --> 00:12:37,791 raise as much money. That really does put them in a 269 00:12:37,858 --> 00:12:41,161 big hole. backdrop, you have these 270 00:12:41,228 --> 00:12:43,463 signals being sent by Republicans dropping out of 271 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:47,434 these races. You have the Supreme Court blowout of a 272 00:12:47,501 --> 00:12:52,639 couple a week ago. I guess now it's not at this moment 273 00:12:52,706 --> 00:12:55,943 looking great for them. So why would Republican 274 00:12:56,009 --> 00:12:58,412 Congressman Tom Tiffany, the candidate for governor, 275 00:12:58,478 --> 00:13:01,548 pick now to come out with a seven figure ad buy in the 276 00:13:01,615 --> 00:13:04,117 governor's race? >> He's trying to reset the 277 00:13:04,184 --> 00:13:06,687 landscape. Absolutely. This is the perfect time to 278 00:13:06,753 --> 00:13:09,656 reframe it coming out of that Supreme Court race and 279 00:13:09,723 --> 00:13:12,326 say, we've got four months until the August primary 280 00:13:12,392 --> 00:13:14,928 and then a few months after that and into November. And 281 00:13:14,995 --> 00:13:17,931 he is the lone Republican out there. So he it's a 282 00:13:17,998 --> 00:13:20,834 positive add. If you watch the ad, it's not hitting on 283 00:13:20,901 --> 00:13:23,303 anyone. It's talking about where his values and where 284 00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:26,106 he grew up and on a dairy farm and what he's done for 285 00:13:26,173 --> 00:13:28,842 his experience and how much he loves the state. Those 286 00:13:28,909 --> 00:13:30,911 are all things that play really well statewide. And 287 00:13:30,978 --> 00:13:33,180 when he has to boost his name recognition, if you 288 00:13:33,247 --> 00:13:35,782 look at the polling, it's still 65% of Republicans 289 00:13:35,849 --> 00:13:37,851 weren't sure. And he was really the only major 290 00:13:37,918 --> 00:13:40,087 candidate left. So he has to win his base. And 291 00:13:40,153 --> 00:13:42,723 there's room for moderates and independents who, 292 00:13:42,789 --> 00:13:45,659 especially looking at that national landscape, may say, 293 00:13:45,726 --> 00:13:47,728 well, if there's going to be Democrats in one chamber, 294 00:13:47,794 --> 00:13:50,531 well, who's going to run the state? He has an 295 00:13:50,597 --> 00:13:52,699 opportunity to reset his agenda, give himself a 296 00:13:52,766 --> 00:13:54,935 little distance from Trump, whose name right now is not 297 00:13:55,002 --> 00:13:57,538 very popular in Wisconsin among independents, young 298 00:13:57,604 --> 00:14:00,174 people and a lot of other groups. So this is a time 299 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,943 for him to own the stage by himself. While the 300 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:05,712 Democrats don't have money to go on the air in a seven 301 00:14:05,779 --> 00:14:08,048 way primary. >> A rare window to run 302 00:14:08,115 --> 00:14:10,751 positive ads, we know he he likes old Fashioneds and 303 00:14:10,817 --> 00:14:15,222 the Packers and, you know, all this cliche Wisconsin 304 00:14:15,289 --> 00:14:17,691 stuff he says about himself. Rich. There was another 305 00:14:17,758 --> 00:14:20,160 message in there in the Tom Tiffany ad that caught your 306 00:14:20,227 --> 00:14:22,796 eye. >> Yeah. There was he he 307 00:14:24,131 --> 00:14:26,300 basically was saying that he'd fight against, you 308 00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:30,204 know, Wall Street buying up residential homes and, and 309 00:14:30,270 --> 00:14:33,774 push back against big tech, bulldozing farmland for 310 00:14:33,841 --> 00:14:37,477 data centers. Those are talking points that are 311 00:14:37,544 --> 00:14:40,180 more akin to something you'd hear out of Democrats 312 00:14:40,247 --> 00:14:44,484 in recent years. So that is really interesting. And to 313 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:48,288 pivot off of what Zac was saying, Tiffany's trying to 314 00:14:48,355 --> 00:14:51,658 define himself before one of the Democrats define him 315 00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:55,796 as or they they have already. But until the 316 00:14:55,863 --> 00:14:58,866 whole connection with President Trump sticks more. 317 00:14:58,932 --> 00:15:01,368 So he's getting out ahead of it. And also, I've seen 318 00:15:01,435 --> 00:15:05,072 a lot of conservatives on social media say, this is 319 00:15:05,138 --> 00:15:08,075 this ad won him the election. Well, that's an 320 00:15:08,141 --> 00:15:12,646 exaggeration. But, you know, we've seen people tend to 321 00:15:12,713 --> 00:15:17,284 like kind of boring folks in general elections. 322 00:15:17,351 --> 00:15:20,988 Governor Evers is an example. So maybe Tiffany's 323 00:15:21,054 --> 00:15:23,657 trying to make that happen and build that reputation 324 00:15:23,724 --> 00:15:26,693 for himself. >> Shawn, I want to ask you 325 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,730 about this because I got the sense that he was 326 00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:32,466 trying to rebrand himself as a folksy guy. Now, if 327 00:15:32,533 --> 00:15:34,735 you look back at the history of candidates 328 00:15:34,801 --> 00:15:36,537 winning elections, you look at Evers and Tommy Thompson. 329 00:15:36,603 --> 00:15:39,006 I mean, what's your impression of what 330 00:15:39,072 --> 00:15:41,008 attributes do they share in common when it comes to 331 00:15:41,074 --> 00:15:42,876 being the everyman in Wisconsin, that folksy 332 00:15:42,943 --> 00:15:46,079 nature? at right now in Wisconsin 333 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,750 politics that Rich said the word boring. But I think 334 00:15:49,816 --> 00:15:53,420 these candidates kind of embrace that. Though. Tony 335 00:15:53,487 --> 00:15:58,158 Evers gives off this shucks vibe that is his brand. 336 00:15:58,792 --> 00:16:02,062 Scott Walker once described himself as aggressively 337 00:16:02,129 --> 00:16:04,431 normal when he was running for president. And I think 338 00:16:04,498 --> 00:16:06,400 people in other states thought, what? But, you 339 00:16:06,466 --> 00:16:09,636 know, we know here. Yeah, that's what won the 340 00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:14,274 election. Even, you know, like Jim Doyle, Harvard Law 341 00:16:14,341 --> 00:16:16,577 educated, he would kind of drop his R's when he was 342 00:16:16,643 --> 00:16:19,246 out on the campaign trail because he knows what he 343 00:16:19,313 --> 00:16:22,216 was going for with that vibe. And so it is 344 00:16:22,282 --> 00:16:25,252 something that Tom Tiffany seems to have going for him 345 00:16:25,319 --> 00:16:28,488 that that guide that you could see at a bar talking 346 00:16:28,555 --> 00:16:31,792 about sports or you name it. There was one development 347 00:16:31,859 --> 00:16:34,394 in the Democratic primary that I'd like to touch on 348 00:16:34,461 --> 00:16:36,930 if we can. There's still a big primary. There's seven 349 00:16:36,997 --> 00:16:39,900 candidates who've been forms that you all have 350 00:16:39,967 --> 00:16:43,537 covered. One of them got a fairly big endorsement in 351 00:16:43,604 --> 00:16:46,139 Democratic politics. Anya, can you tell us about that? 352 00:16:46,206 --> 00:16:48,242 >> Yeah. And then I actually also want to turn 353 00:16:48,308 --> 00:16:51,245 it back to you. So Kelda Roys got this major 354 00:16:51,311 --> 00:16:54,581 endorsement from Wittke, this big education teachers 355 00:16:54,648 --> 00:16:56,783 union and the sort of open question that I have and 356 00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:59,319 that you and I have discussed is, how 357 00:16:59,386 --> 00:17:01,722 significant is that now? So in the past, that would 358 00:17:01,788 --> 00:17:04,091 have been sort of almost like a kingmaking move. She 359 00:17:04,157 --> 00:17:06,860 is certainly really kind of trying to promote it, in 360 00:17:06,927 --> 00:17:08,929 part because her polling numbers have been pretty 361 00:17:08,996 --> 00:17:11,899 low throughout. So this could be a last chance, a 362 00:17:11,965 --> 00:17:14,101 last ditch effort. But I'm curious what you think 363 00:17:14,168 --> 00:17:16,904 compared to, again, like eight years ago, what what 364 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,440 this endorsement could mean? >> Well, I mean, I think 365 00:17:20,507 --> 00:17:23,110 Zac, you know, when before we had lost a lot of its 366 00:17:23,177 --> 00:17:26,613 power with act ten, it was a huge endorsement. I think 367 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,782 in a Democratic primary. It's something they 368 00:17:28,849 --> 00:17:31,652 certainly have to take note of, though. You can't 369 00:17:31,718 --> 00:17:34,454 ignore the largest teachers union. To me, it just 370 00:17:34,521 --> 00:17:36,924 signals that this primary that we sort of are 371 00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:40,727 expecting to get smaller organically at some point. 372 00:17:40,794 --> 00:17:42,930 Kelda Roys not going to go anywhere when she has the 373 00:17:42,996 --> 00:17:46,166 teachers union on her side. So that is one that seems 374 00:17:46,233 --> 00:17:48,869 like it's going to take a little more time to to sort 375 00:17:48,936 --> 00:17:52,739 out here. So that's all the time we have for today. 376 00:17:52,806 --> 00:17:56,510 Thanks for joining us. This has been inside Wisconsin 377 00:17:56,577 --> 00:17:59,980 politics. Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin. Org. 378 00:18:00,047 --> 00:18:04,284 On YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.