>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
JOURNALIST WITH "HERE & NOW" ON
PBS WISCONSIN.
TODAY IS OCTOBER 6.
WISCONSIN JUST SURPASSED 8,000
DEATHS DUE TO COVID-19.
HOSPITAL BEDS AND INTENSIVE CARE
UNITS ARE REACHING PEAK
CAPACITIES WHILE THE STATE ONLY
INCHES FORWARD IN
VACCINATIONSMEN.
ALL OF THIS WHILE SOME CONSIDER
A BOOSTER AND A NEW PILL THAT
COULD BE TAKEN UPON RECEIVING A
POSITIVE COVID TEST.
TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S CURRENT
WITH COVID, WE TURN TO THE
MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF INFECTION
CONTROL AT UW HEALTH AND
INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST AT
THE UW SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND
PUBLIC HEALTH, DR. NASIA SAFDAR,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO THE STATE'S DATA IS
SHOWING CASES AND
HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE EITHER KIND
OF HOLDING STEADY OR STILL
INCREASING DEPENDING ON WHERE
YOU ARE IN THE AREA OF THE
STATE.
HAVE WE KIND OF HIT THIS PEAK OF
THE DELTA WAVE, OR ARE WE STILL
GOING TO SEE THE WORST OF IT AS
WE APPROACH MORE OF THE FALL AND
WINTER MONTHS?
>> YOU KNOW, IT IS OBVIOUSLY
HARD TO COMPLETELY PREDICT, BUT
I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS IN
AREAS THAT HAVE HIGH LEVELS OF
VACCINATION, YOU ARE NOT SEEING
QUITE A SHARP A PEAK AS YOU
WOULD OTHERWISE EXPECT.
THERE IS A STUTTERING EFFECT
WHERE YOU ARE HOLDING STEADY OR
SEEING MORE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND
IT LEVELS OFF.
IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE A
FEWER HOSPITALIZATIONS, AND NO
ONE COUNTY OR REGION EXISTS IN A
VACUUM.
HERE, FOR INSTANCE, WE PROVIDE
CARE FOR PATIENTS ALL OVER THE
STATE AND BEYOND, AND HOSPITAL
RATES GO UP REGARDLESS OF WHAT
LOCAL VACCINATION RATES LOOK
LIKE.
>> AND THE 7-DAY AVERAGE OF
THOSE HOSPITALIZED IS OVER 1
,000 AND -- 1,000 AND MORE THAN
300 IN THE ICU.
THE HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION DATA
SHOWS MORE THAN 40% OF HOSPITALS
ARE AT PEAK CAPACITY.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS EVEN
MORE OF A CRISIS THAN WHAT WE
SAW LAST YEAR, AND ARE NON-COVID
PATIENTS WITH CRITICAL CARE
NEEDS BEING LIKEWISE IMPACTED?
>> I THINK IT DEPENDS WHAT SORT
OF CAPABILITIES EXIST WITHIN A
PARTICULAR HEALTH SYSTEM.
WE ARE NOT QUITE THERE WHERE WE
WERE LAST YEAR.
LAST YEAR, THERE WAS THE NEED TO
POSTPONE ELECTIVE PROCEDURES AND
SURGERIES AND REPURPOSE THOSE
ROOMS FOR PATIENTS WITH COVID.
THAT IS NOT HAPPENING AT THE
MOMENT EVERYWHERE, ALTHOUGH SOME
HEALTH SYSTEMS HAVE HAD TO DO IT
BECAUSE OF THEIR CAPABILITY.
I THINK THE CONCERN IT MAY
HAPPEN, THOUGH, EXISTS.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT JUST THE
PHYSICAL SPACE THAT'S THE ISSUE,
BUT THE WORK FORCE.
YOU KNOW, AS INFECTIONS ARE IN
THE COMMUNITY, HEALTHCARE
WORKERS TEND TO COME DOWN WITH
THEM, AND GIVEN THERE'S A NEED
FOR HIGHLY TRAINED PEOPLE TO
CARE FOR COVID PATIENTS, THAT
REALLY LIMITS WHAT ONE IS ABLE
TO DO.
>> AND WITH SCHOOL HAVING BEEN
IN SESSION NOW FOR AT LEAST A
MONTH, NOT ONLY ARE WE IN PERSON
FOR THE UNIVERSITY, BUT ALSO FOR
K-12.
ARE WE SEEING MORE PEDIATRIC
CASES, CONSIDERING THAT DELTA IS
CONSIDERED A WORSE VARIANT THAN
WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR?
>> I THINK OVERALL, PEDIATRIC
CASES INCREASED COMPARED TO THE
EARLIER DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC.
I THINK THERE'S A BIG SPECTRUM
HOW SEVERE THE ILLNESS IS FROM
NO SYMPTOMS TO LANDING IN THE
HOSPITAL.
THERE'S A SYNDROME OF MASSIVE
INFLAMMATION THAT HAPPENS AFTER
ONE RECOVERED FROM COVID THAT'S
MORE COMMON IN CHILDREN THAT
LANDS SOME OF THEM IN THE ICU.
HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THE
MITIGATING MEASURES THAT PLACES
SHOULD TAKE, SUCH AS SCHOOLS,
FOR INSTANCE, WITH WITH MASKING,
TESTING, MONITORING, AND ALL OF
THOSE, THOSE DO APPEAR TO BE
EFFECTIVE IN CONTAINING THE
NUMBER OF CASES.
YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO ERADICATE
COVID, WE ALL CAME TO THE
CONCLUSION THAT ERADICATION IS
NOT A PRACTICAL OPTION, BUT
LEARNING TO LIVE WITH IT AND
MANAGE IS THE NEXT GOAL.
>> ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT LONG
COVID SYMPTOMS OF CHILDREN?
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
THOSE A LOT BETTER, NOT JUST IN
CHILDREN, BUT IN ADULTS.
I THINK THERE'S A BIG SPECTRUM
OF SYMPTOMS.
SOME HAVE TO DO WITH HOW SEVERE
YOUR INITIAL COVID ILLNESS WAS,
LIKE PERSISTENT SHORTNESS OF
BREATH AND FATIGUE AND SO ON
THAT IMPROVE OVER TIME, AND
OTHERS ARE NOT RELATED WITH THE
INITIAL SEVERITY OF ILLNESS, AND
THAT'S THINGS LIKE FEELING FOGGY
AND MEMORY ISSUES, AND THOSE ARE
CONCERNING.
IT IS CONCERNS BECAUSE WE CAN'T
PREDICT THEM OR HAVE GOOD
THERAPEUTICS AGAINST THEM.
THE MAIN GOAL FOR COVID SHOULD
STILL VERY MUCH BE UPSTREAM
PREVENTION.
>> NEW FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES REPORT
VACCINATIONS PREVENTED AROUND
5500 INFECTIONS AND 700 DEATHS
IN ELDERLY IN WISCONSIN.
IS IT FRUSTRATING TO BE A PART
OF THIS LIFE SAVING RESEARCH,
PUTTING SO MUCH ENERGY INTO IT,
AND YET THERE'S SO MANY CHOOSING
NOT TO GET VACCINATED AT THIS
POINT?
>> WELL, I THINK ONE DOES WISH
THAT MORE PEOPLE WOULD EMBRACE
WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US AS AN
EFFECTIVE WAY TO PREVENT COVID.
HAVING SAID THAT, I MEAN, A LIFE
SAVED IS A LIFE SAVED.
WE TAKE EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN
GET, BUT GIVEN THAT CAPACITY'S
NOT SO MUCH AN ISSUE IN THIS
COUNTRY WITH VACCINES AND THE
SUPPLY'S THERE, IT WOULD BE
GREAT IF THE DEMAND ALSO WENT
UP.
>> AND NOW MANY ARE CONSIDERING
WHETHER OR NOT TO GET A BOOSTER
AS THE EFFICACY OF THE INITIAL
VACCINE SERIES WANES OVER TIME
ANYWHERE BETWEEN SIX AND EIGHT
MONTHS.
WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT THOSE
WHO CAN GET A BOOSTER SHOULD?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IF YOU ARE IN THE GROUP THAT'S
ELIGIBLE FOR A BOOSTER, YOU
SHOULD.
I SUSPECT MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE
TAKEN THE TWO DOSES ARE IN THE
GROUP THAT THEY ARE BELIEVERS IN
VACCINE EFFECTIVENESS AND DATA
AND WILL TAKE A BOOSTERMENT I
THINK FOR THOSE RELUCTANT TO
TAKE THE VACCINE TO BEGIN WITH,
I DOUBT THE AVAILABILITY OF
BOOSTER WILL AFFECT THEIR
DECISION MAKING.
>> AND EVEN NOW A NEW PILL FROM
MERCK IS SEEKING FEDERAL
APPROVAL.
IT IS DESIGNED TO BE TAKEN A
POSITIVE COVID DIAGNOSIS, AND
SUPPOSEDLY WILL HELP PREVENT
MORE SEVERE SYMPTOMS.
DO YOU SEE THIS AND OTHER
SOLUTIONS THAT ARE NOT VACCINES
BEING PROMISING IN THE FIGHT
TOWARDS COMBATING COVID?
>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, THE VACCINES ARE
GREAT, BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE
ONE FOR PEDIATRICS, AND WE NEED
THAT FOR THE FIRST ORDER OF
PRIORITY.
HAVING SAID THAT, THERE WILL
STILL BE SOME PEOPLE WITH
BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS OR CAN'T
TAKE THE VACCINE OR BE ABLE TO
TAKE THE BOOSTER, SO TO MANAGE
THE CASES WE DO GET, WE NEED A
REALLY GOOD OUTPATIENT REGIMEN.
RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE MUCH.
WE HAVE THE MONOCLONAL
ANTIBODIES, IT IS AN INFUSION
THAT NEEDS MONITORING, AND IT IS
COMPLICATED, AND WITH THAT COMES
BARRIERS TO ACCESS, BUT IF
THERE'S AN ORAL PILL TO TAKE
WITHIN THE SAFETY OF YOUR HOME
AND NOT GO OUT AND EXPOSE OTHERS
TO YOUR ILLNESS, I THINK THAT
COULD BE EFFECTIVE IN HOW WE
MANAGE COVID CASES.
>> AND TO BE CLEAR, YOU KNOW, WE
HEARD THESE STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN THE HOSPITAL, SICK
WITH COVID, AND THEY ARE ASKING
IF THEY CAN NOW GET THE VACCINE,
AND IT IS TOO LATE TO GET THE
VACCINE, AND THIS PILL WOULDN'T
BE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT IS ALSO TOO LATE ONCE THE
SYMPTOMS, THE SEVERE SYMPTOMS
HAVE ALREADY SET IN, IS THAT
CORRECT?
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
THIS IS REALLY DESIGNED TO
PREVENT HOSPITALIZATION, AND
ONCE THAT HAS HAPPENED, THEN
THIS WOULD BE FEUDAL TO USE AT
THAT POINT.
THERE ARE OTHER MEDICATIONS FOR
PATIENTS WITH COVID WHO GET
HOSPITALIZED, BUT NOTHING TRUMPS
THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE
VACCINE.
>> CONSIDERING THIS, THIS PILL
NOW AND OTHER WAYS IN WHICH
WE'VE COME TO START FIGHTING
THIS VIRUS IN MANY DIFFERENT
WAYS, ARE THERE PARTS OF YOUR
RESEARCH OR OTHER'S RESEARCH YOU
SEE THAT YOU ARE EXCITED ABOUT
AND ON THE HORIZON OF AS ANOTHER
FACET, ANOTHER ANGLE TOWARDS THE
FUTURE OF FIGHTING COVID?
>> WELL, I THINK IN THE VACCINE
DEVELOPMENT REALM, THERE'S
POTENTIALLY PROMISING
DEVELOPMENTS ABOUT NASAL
VACCINES, MAKING IT EASIER FOR
PEOPLE TO GET IT, AND LOOKING AT
THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE WHO
ARE OLDER, COMPROMISED, AND
CONVENTIONAL DOSES DO NOT TAKE
AS WELL, I THINK ALL OF THESE
ARE PROMISING LINES OF INQUIRY.
THERE'S OVER 300 DIFFERENT
CANDIDATES AS FAR AS THERAPEUTIC
AGENTS IN VARIOUS STAGES OF
CLINICAL TRIALS FOR COVID.
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF RESEARCH
UNDERWAY TO IDENTIFY WHAT THOSE
ARE, BUT WE DO HAVE TO HAVE THEM
GO THROUGH THE RIGOROUS PROCESS
OF EVALUATION FOR EFFECTIVENESS
AND SAFETY BEFORE WE JUMP THE
GUN, AND THAT'S TRUE FOR THIS
MERCK PRODUCT AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, THE ONLY DATA SEEN SO
FAR IS IN THE FORM OF A PRESS
RELEASE SO IT NEEDS TO BE
INDEPENDENTLY VALUED.
>> BEGINNING IN 2022, YOU WILL
TRANSITION TO A NEW ROLE AS THE
ASSOCIATE DEAN OF CLINICAL
TRIALS AT THE UW SCHOOL OF
MEDICINE AND PUBLIC HEALTH.
HOWEVER, IN YOUR CURRENT WORK AS
AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE
SPECIALIST, YOU HAVE ALREADY
BEEN INVOLVED IN CLINICAL
TRIALS, PARTICULARLY RELATED TO
COVID-19.
WHAT HAVE THOSE LOOKED LIKE?
>> WELL, SO ONE OF THE TRIALS,
FOR INSTANCE, THAT'S STILL
UNDERWAY IS USING A TOPICAL
COMBINATION OF THINGS.
IT IS INTERNASAL ODODINE APPLIED
WITH A SWAB, AND THEN THERE'S
ANTISEPTICS AVAILABLE OVER THE
COUNTER AND WELL TOLERATED, BUT
USING IN A PROGRAM TO SEE IF
THEY REDUCE COVID INFECTIONS.
THAT'S ONE OF THE COVID TRIALS
THAT'S POTENTIALLY LOW COST AND
HIGH IMPACT IF IT IS FOUND TO
WORK.
>> YOU DO A LOT OF MEDIA
AVAILABILITY, AND YOU DO A LOT
OF RESEARCH SIMULTANEOUSLY.
DO YOU SEE HOW TO TALK ABOUT
THIS RESEARCH, HOW TO ALMOST
MARKET THIS TO PEOPLE TO MAKE
SURE THEY ARE GETTING THE MOST
ACCURATE INFORMATION?
DO YOU SEE THAT AS BEING A PART
OF THE FUTURE OF RESEARCH AND
SCIENCE IN DEVELOPING NEW WAYS
TO COMBAT VIRUSES LIKE THIS?
>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, HONESTLY, RESEARCH MEANS
NOTHING IF IT'S CONDUCTED AND
DOES NOT GET APPLIED, AND THE
PEOPLE THAT APPLY IT AND TAKE IT
FORWARD IS THE PUBLIC, SO BEING
ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATE
WHAT RESEARCH IS DOING, HOW IT'S
HELPING THE HUMAN CONDITION AND
HUMAN HEALTH IS REALLY CRITICAL.
>> AND SO HOW WILL YOUR WORK
GOING FORWARD AS YOU TRANSITION
TO THE NEW ROLE, HOW WILL IT
EXPAND AND HOW IMPORTANT ARE
THINGS LIKE CLINICAL TRIALS
IMPORTANT TO THE CONTINUED FIGHT
AGAINST SAR-COV-2 AND COVID-19
AND HAS THIS ACCELERATED SINCE
THE URGENCY OF THIS PANDEMIC?
>> WELL, I THINK THE SARS-COV-2
PANDEMIC HIGHLIGHTED THE GAPS WE
HAVE IN CLINICAL INFRASTRUCTURE
AND HIGHLIGHTED MIRACLES THAT
HAPPEN WHEN PEOPLE COLLABORATE
TO RAPIDLY BRING SOMETHING FROM
COLLABORATION TO AUTHORIZATION
AND TO THE PUBLIC AND THE
OUTCOMES AND SEEING THE REAL
WORLD OUTCOMES AROUND US, AND
MORTALITY OF COVID AND
DEPENDENCE ON THE VACCINE HAS
COME DOWN BECAUSE OF THE NEW
DEVELOPMENTS, AND NEW NEW
DEVELOPMENT YOU THINK OF IS THE
PRODUCT OF RESEARCH.
WE OFTEN DON'T SEE THAT, ALL THE
BACK END WORK, BUT THINKING
ABOUT THINGS, INDEPENDENT OF
INFECTIOUS DISEASES, BUT THINK
OF BREAST CANCER, FOR INSTANCE,
GO IN THE PHYSICIAN'S OFFICE,
DIAGNOSED, AND YOU ARE OFFERED
TREATMENT OPTIONS, THOSE ARE A
RESULT OF KI DECADES OF RESEARC.
WE HAVE TO BENEFIT FROM THAT AND
THE WAY TO DO THAT IS TO BE
ACTIVE IN TRIALS SO MY ROLE IS
TO LEAD AND DEVELOP AND
ACCELERATE A PROGRAM OF CLINICAL
TRIALS RESEARCH SO IT WILL
BEYOND BY OWN WORK, FOR
INSTANCE, IN INFECTIOUS
DISEASES, BUT WILL BE TO SUPPORT
THE PARTICIPATION OF AS MANY
PATIENTS AS POSSIBLE IN CLINICAL
TRIALS, FOR THEM TO OFFER THEM
THE OPPORTUNITY.
TOO OFTEN, THAT OPPORTUNITY IS
LIMITED AND WE WANT TO CHANGE
THAT.
>> AND YOU DO WANT YOUR WORK TO
EXPAND BEYOND COVID, BUT DO YOU
ALSO SEE COVID CLINICAL TRIALS
EXPANDING AS YOU'RE DOING THIS
FUTURE WORK?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK FOR AS LONG AS THE
PANDEMIC IS A THREAT, WHICH, YOU
KNOW, IT'S FOR THE FORESEEABLE
FUTURE, SEEMS TO BE, WILL WANT
TO ABSOLUTELY OFFER TO OUR
PATIENTS ANY CLINICAL TRIALS
THAT ARE HAPPENING AND LEAD SOME
LOCALLY AS WELL THAT WILL BE
NATIONAL AND LARGE TRIALS.
FRIENDSHIPS, THE NIH HAS A
NUMBER OF PRODUCTS THEY ARE
TESTING.
THESE ARE SUCH TRIALS THEY CAN
BE OFFERED TO ANYBODY IN THE
NATION.
YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TRAVEL.
YOU CAN ENROLL IN A STUDY AND
AGREE TO TAKE A PARTICULAR
CANDIDATE INTERVENTION.
IT'S THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WE
REALLY WANT TO FACILITATE.
A LOT OF WHAT CLINICAL TRIAL'S
LEADERSHIP PROGRAM DOES IS
COLLAPSING BARRIERS TO CLINICAL
TRIAL PARTICIPATION AND MY ROLE
WILL HOPEFULLY ALLEVIATE SOME OF
THE BARRIERS.
>> YOU SAID A FEW MOMENTS AGO
THAT YOU DON'T THINK THAT
ERADICATION OF THIS VIRUS IS
GOING TO HAPPEN.
DID YOU ALWAYS THINK THAT, OR IS
IT JUST RECENTLY THAT THAT KIND
OF SEEMS LIKE THE REALITY, AND
IF IT'S NOT ERADICATION, WHAT IS
THE MANAGEMENT?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT I ALWAYS
THOUGHT THAT.
I THINK WE WERE ALL HOPEFUL IN
THE BEGINNING, ESPECIALLY IN
THESE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE VACCINES
CAME OUT THAT THIS MIGHT BE THE
END.
I THINK WE BELIEVED IT WOULD BE
A LITTLE BIT OF SMOLDERING OF
THE VIRUS, MAKING ITS WAY INTO
RESPIRATORY VIRUSES LIKE OTHERS
DO, AND IT WOULD CEASE TO BE THE
KIND OF THREAT THAT IT STILL IS,
AND NOW I THINK WHAT WE'RE
LEARNING IS THE WAY THESE, THIS
PARTICULAR VIRUS MUTATES AND
STRAINS THAT EMERGE, SOME OF
THEM ARE MORE THREATENING THAN
OTHERS, AND DELTA IS ONE OF
THEM, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT THE
NEXT ONE WILL BE.
TO FIND A WAY TO MANAGE THE
THREAT, MEANING USING ALL THE
TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL, INCLUDING
VACCINES AND READILY AVAILABLE,
EASY TO TAKE INEXPENSIVE
THERAPEUTICS, AND PROVIDE THE
BEST POSSIBLE CARE TO THOSE
HOSPITALIZED WITH COVID
REGARDLESS OF OTHER THINGS.
I THINK ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO BE
BROUGHT TO BEAR, AND, OF COURSE,
RESEARCH AND AID AND DEVELOPMENT
AND IMPLEMENTATION OF NEW
THINGS, AND SO WE MAY FIND
SOMETHING THAT WILL COMPLETELY
ALLEVIATE IT, BUT UNTIL THAT
HAPPENS, WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO
USE EVERYTHING WE CAN AT OUR
DISPOSAL.
>> ALL RIGHT.
DR. NASIA SAFDAR, AS ALWAYS,
THANK YOU SO, SO MORE FOR YOUR
WORK AND JOINING US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE FROM "HERE & NOW"
AND PBS WISCONSIN, VISIT
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