>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
JOURNALIST WITH "HERE & NOW" ON
PBS WISCONSIN.
TODAY IS AUGUST 25.
AS AFGHAN REFUGEES BEGIN TO
ARRIVE AT FORT McCOY, MANY ARE
REMEMBERING THE PAST WHEN THE
ONLY OTHER LARGE SCALE REFUGEE
RELOCATION EFFORT OCCURRED IN
1980.
SOME 15,000 CUBANS CAME TO THE
WESTERN WISCONSIN MILITARY
INSTALLATION.
JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS
HISTORY IS OMAR GRANADOS,
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF LATIN
AMERICAN AND LATINO STUDIES AT
UW-LACROSSE WHO HAS BEEN
STUDYING THE 1980 CUBAN REFUGEES
FOR MANY YEARS, AND, OMAR, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.
>> I JUST WANT TO START, CAN YOU
WALK US THROUGH JUST WHAT THE
FIRST FEW DAYS OR WEEKS WERE
LIKE FOR THE CUBANS AS THEY WERE
ARRIVING AT FORT McCOY.
>> RIGHT.
SO THE 1980 EXODUS OF CUBAN
REFUGEES TO WISCONSIN, AND NOT
ONLY WISCONSIN, BUT OTHER
MILITARY BASES THAT WERE CREATED
BY THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION AT
THAT TIME WERE MOSTLY
CHARACTERIZED BY CHAOS.
YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THE SPEED AT
WHICH THE EXODUS HAPPENED OUT OF
CUBA IN APRIL OF 1980.
IN A PERIOD OF BARELY THREE
MONTHS, YOU HAD OVER 125,000
CUBAN MIGRANTS JUST SAILING
ACROSS THE FLORIDA'S STRAITS AND
LANDING IN KEY WEST.
THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION JUST
HAD NO RESOURCES AT THE TIME TO
DEAL WITH THAT MASSIVE EXODUS SO
THE FOLKS THAT CAME SPECIFICALLY
TO FORT McCOY WERE THE FOLKS
THAT WERE IN THE LATER EXODUS,
AND THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT HAVE
NOT IDENTIFIED RELATIVES IN THE
UNITED STATES OR FRIENDS THAT
COULD ACT AS SPONSORS.
FORT McCOY WAS ALSO THE LAST
RESETTLEMENT CENTER, WHICH WAS
THE NAME GIVEN TO THE MILITARY
BASES.
THERE WAS ONE IN ARKANSAS.
THERE WAS ONE IN PENNSYLVANIA.
THERE WAS ONE IN FLORIDA.
NORTHERN FLORIDA.
THE FORT McCOY WELCOMED THE
LAST GROUP OF REFUGEES, AND THIS
GROUP WAS, YOU KNOW, MOSTLY BORN
BY SINGLE BLACK MEN BETWEEN THE
AGES OF 25 AND 35 YEARS OLD, WHO
HAD JOINED THIS EXODUS UNDER
VERY DIFFERENT CONDITIONS
WHETHER THEY HAD WANTED TO JOIN
OR NOT AND FOLKS THAT ALSO HAD
JUST BEEN PUSHED OUT OF CUBA BY
THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT TO COME IN
THAT EXODUS.
THEY HAD NO IDEA WHERE WISCONSIN
WAS.
THEY HAD NO IDEA WHERE THEY WERE
GOING.
EVERYTHING WAS VERY DISORGANIZED
AND UNCERTAIN FOR THAT GROUP OF
PEOPLE AT FORT McCOY, WHICH
ENDED UP BEING OVER 14,000 CUBAN
REFUGEES TOTAL IN THE SUMMER OF
1980, AND SO FROM MAY 30th TO
SEPTEMBER, LATE SEPTEMBER, A
TOTAL OF 14,300 REFUGEES
APPROXIMATELY WENT TO FORT
McCOY.
>> AND YOU MENTIONED
UNCERTAINTY.
SO FROM YOUR RESEARCH AND
CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME OF THESE
MEN, CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT'S
LIKE FOR SOMEONE EXPERIENCING
THIS?
TO BE LEAVING THEIR HOME AND
COMING TO A COMPLETELY FOREIGN
COUNTRY.
>> IT'S -- THE HISTORY OF THE
UNITED STATES AND CUBA, ITSELF,
HAS -- IT GOES BACK FOR, YOU
KNOW, HUNDREDS OF YEARS, AND SO
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY THAT
THESE PEOPLE HAD -- DIDN'T HAVE
AN IDEA WHAT THE UNITED STATES
WAS LIKE OR WHAT THE, YOU KNOW,
THE PROMISE OF THE AMERICAN
DREAM WAS LIKE.
YOU KNOW, GROWING UP IN CUBA,
EVEN DOING THE SOCIALIST PERIOD
IN CUBA, THE UNITED STATES IS
VERY PRESENT, AND CULTURAL,
POLITICAL, BUT, FOR ME, IT IS
ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO TRY TO
EXPLAIN TO CUBANS, YOU KNOW,
THAT THE IMMENSITY OF THE UNITED
STATES' GEOGRAPHY.
PEOPLE THINK THE UNITED STATES
AND CUBA, PEOPLE THINK THAT THE
UNITED STATES IS MIAMI AND SOUTH
FLORIDA.
FOR THESE FOLK WHO ARE AS I LIKE
TO CALL THEM, ISLAND FOLK,
IMAGINE WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO JUST
LAND IN THE MIDDLE OF WISCONSIN
WHERE EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIFE IS
JUST GETTING COLDER AND COLDER
AND COLDER, AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN
KNOW IT WAS COMING AFTER THAT,
AND SO GEOGRAPHICALLY, THEY WERE
DISPLACED.
CULTURALLY, OBVIOUSLY, THEY WERE
TREMENDOUSLY DISPLACED.
THESE WERE FOLKS THAT HAD
EXPERIENCED TRAUMATIC SEPARATION
FROM THEIR FAMILIES, TRAUMATIC
SEPARATION FROM THEIR SOCIAL,
YOU KNOW, CIRCLES.
MANY OF THEM HAD BEEN POLITI
POLITICALLY PERSECUTED IN CUBA,
AND MANY WERE IN THE GAY
COMMUNITY AND PERSECUTED BY THE
CUBAN GOVERNMENT.
MANY OF THEM WERE FOLKS THAT HAD
RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS THAT WERE
NOT PERMITTED BY THE CUBAN
GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME, AND MANY
OF THEM, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG
PEOPLE THAT CAME, HAD BEEN IN
SOME SORT OF TROUBLE WITH THE
LAW FOR CRIMES THAT WERE
CONSIDERED DANGEROUS AT THE TIME
TO THE SOCIALIST STATE OF THE
CUBAN REVOLUTION, BUT WERE
MOSTLY MINOR MISDEMEANOR CRIMES
LIKE, YOU KNOW, TRADE IN THE
BLACK MARKET, ILLEGAL GAMBLING,
YOU KNOW, HOMOSEXUALITY,
PROSTITUTION, AND, YOU KNOW,
THINGS THAT BECAUSE OF THE
IDEOLOGY PRESENTED BY THE
CURE -- THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT AS
THE SOLE WAY OF UNDERSTANDING
SOCIETY WHERE IT WAS SEEN AS
DANGEROUS TO THE STATE, AND SO
THOSE -- A LARGE NUMBER OF YOUNG
MEN THAT REFUSED TO JOIN THE
CUBAN ARMY OR THE COMMUNIST
PARTY AND ALSO HAD BEEN PUT IN
PRISON, EVEN FOR A TEMPORARY
PERIOD OF TEN MONTHS, WHO WERE
SENT TO THE EXODUS FROM THE
CELLS WITHOUT EVEN HAVING THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SAY GOOD-BYE TO
THEIR FAMILIES OR KNOWING WHERE
THEY WERE GOING, AND SO THERE
WAS, YOU KNOW, BOTH THE PROMISE
OF A NEW LIFE, THE HOPE OF THE
AMERICAN DREAM, BUILDING THAT
DREAM OF, YOU KNOW,
CUBAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN
SOUTH FLORIDA, BUT ALSO ALL THE
TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE OF LEAVING
CUBA WITHOUT REALLY WANTING TO,
FOR MANY OF THEM.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE
THAT THE EXODUS IS THE FIRST
TIME IN THE HISTORY OF CUBAN
MIGRATIONS TO THE UNITED STATES
WHERE PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO LEAVE
CUBA.
A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE
ACTUALLY FORCED TO LEAVE CUBA BY
THE GOVERNMENT.
IT'S AN IMPORTANT
DIFFERENTIATION THAT I ALWAYS
LIKE TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I
TALK ABOUT CUBAN MIGRATION TO
THE UNITED STATES.
>> AND SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
HOW THE IDEA OF THE U.S. MIGHT
HAVE BEEN LARGELY KIND OF THE
FLORIDA, MIAMI AREA, THE CULTURE
AND LANGUAGE BARRIERS OF COMING
TO WISCONSIN, WESTERN WISCONSIN,
WAS EVEN GREATER.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE DIFFERENCE THAT WE SEE TODAY
BETWEEN THE FIRST WAVE OF
MIGRANTS IN THE EXODUS, THE
PEOPLE THAT CAME IN THE FIRST
TWO, THREE WEEKS OF THE EXODUS,
AND THE PEOPLE THAT CAME AFTER
IS SIGNIFICANT, AND THAT WAS
MOSTLY AS A RESULT OF THE WAY IN
WHICH THOSE WHO ARRIVED IN KEY
WEST AND BENEFITED FROM THE WORK
OF VOLUNTARY ORGANIZATIONS THAT
WERE ALREADY READY WAITING FOR
THEM IN KEY WEST, THOSE WERE
MOSTLY FAMILIES AND PEOPLE WHO
HAD RELATIVES IN THE UNITED
STATES.
ABOUT 29% OF THAT GROUP HAD
FAMILY IN THE UNITED STATES, AND
FOR THEM, THE TRANSITION WAS
VERY EASY TO, YOU KNOW, CUBAN
SOCIAL-ECONOMIC NETWORKS ACROSS
MIAMI AND TAMPA AND OTHER CUBAN
SETTLEMENTS, BUT ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, 70% OF THE GROUP, EVEN
WHEN THEY DID NOT HAVE FAMILY,
THEY WERE ABLE TO RESETTLE VERY
FAST INTO THE MIAMI AREA, AND,
YOU KNOW, INTEGRATE INTO THE
SOCIAL FAB RIB -- FABRIC AND THE
WORK FORCE.
MORE IMPORTANTLY BECAUSE OF HOW
PREVALENT SPANISH WAS AND
KNOWLEDGE OF IMMIGRATION AND,
YOU KNOW, LEGAL SERVICES THAT AN
AMERICAN COMMUNITY ALREADY HAD
IN REGARDS TO WHAT THOSE FOLKS
NEEDED TO GET THEIR PAPERWORK IN
ORDER.
NOW, IF YOU ARE A BLACK
IMMIGRANT, A BLACK MIGRANT WHO
LANDS IN WISCONSIN WHO DOESN'T
KNOW SPANISH, YOUR FAITH IS
GOING TO BE VERY DIFFERENT.
VOLUNTARY ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE
HELPING OUT IN WISCONSIN HAVE
VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF THE
LEGAL PROCESSES NECESSARY FOR
THE FOLKS TO COME TO THE BASE.
THEY HAD LIMITED RESOURCES IN
TERMS OF LANGUAGE, SPANISH
INTERPRETERS, AND THE PEOPLE
THAT WERE DOING THE
TRANSLATIONS, THE LEGAL
TRANSLATIONS, THE PEOPLE DOING
INTERPRETING AS ALL THE REFUGEES
WERE COMING IN AND BASICALLY
INTAKING THIS KEY INFORMATION
THAT'S GOING TO DECIDE THE FATE
AND LIFE OF THIS PERSON FOR THE
NEXT 50 YEARS WERE HIGH SCHOOL
STUDENTS.
WISCONSIN HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS
WITH THEIR TEACHERS, WHO WERE
VOLUNTEERS THAT COULD SPEAK SOME
SPANISH, AND THAT CREATED MANY,
MANY ERRORS AND PROBLEMS FOR
FOLKS THAT WE STILL SEE TODAY
ARE STRUGGLING TO GET THEIR
PAPERWORK IN ORDER BECAUSE OF
THE ERRORS THAT WERE MADE AT
FORT McCOY.
THAT'S ONE ASPECT OF IT.
THE RUSH TO RESETTLE THAT GROUP
OF REFUGEES OUT OF THE FORT ALSO
BROUGHT ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW,
MISMATCH, AS I LIKE TO SAY,
REFUGEES WITH SPONSORS, PEOPLE
WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE IN
WISCONSIN VOLUNTEER, CHURCHES,
FAMILIES, VOLUNTEERS, BUT FE
MANY, A -- FEMA AND THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT, WHICH AT THE TIME
WERE COORDINATING, YOU KNOW, ALL
OF THESE EFFORTS DIDN'T REALLY
INFORM FAMILIES CAREFULLY,
DIDN'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, GIVE
ALL PERMISSIONS NECESSARY OF HOW
THIS REFUGEE SHOULD HAVE
FOLLOWED UP IN THEIR IMMIGRATION
PROCEEDINGS IN ORDER TO GET THE
SPECIFIC FORMS, AND, YOU KNOW,
DON'T MISS ANY DEADLINES, AND IN
ALL HONESTY, MANY OF THE
REFUGEES NEVER WANTED TO STAY IN
WISCONSIN AFTER THAT, AND SO
THEY -- WE HAD MANY CASES WHERE
THESE FOLK WERE, YOU KNOW,
FINDING A SPONSOR, AND WE CAN
TALK ABOUT THAT PROCESS A LITTLE
BIT LATER IF YOU WANT OF HOW IT
WAS TO FIND A SPONSOR IF YOU
DIDN'T HAVE ANY FAMILY, BUT AS
SOON AS THEY LEFT THE BASE, THEY
WERE JUST, LIKE, JUMPING A BUS
AND GO TRY TO GO TO MIAMI OR NEW
JERSEY OR NEW YORK WHERE BIGGER
GROUPS OF CUBAN IMMIGRANTS WERE
ALREADY, YOU KNOW, SETTLED.
>> SO LIKE 1980, TODAY, THERE
ARE SO MANY AFGHAN PEOPLE COMING
IN SUCH A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME,
AND THE DISORGANIZED HASTE CAN
CAUSE SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM
DETRIMENTS BASED ON SOME OF THE
THINGS YOU JUST DESCRIBED.
DO YOU FORESEE THAT POTENTIALLY
HAPPENING WITH THE CURRENT
AFGHAN REFUGEES THAT ARE NOW
FLOWING VERY QUICKLY INTO THE
UNITED STATES?
>> I MEAN, IT'S A VERY -- IT'S A
VERY DIFFERENT SITUATION.
I MEAN, IT IS A VERY DIFFERENT
GROUP OF MIGRANTS WITH VERY
DIFFERENT CULTURAL, YOU KNOW,
BACKGROUND AND DIFFERENT IDEA OF
THE UNITED STATES AND DIFFERENT
EXPERIENCE IN REGARD OF WHAT
THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN DURING THE
LAST 40 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN.
I THINK AFGHAN REFUGEES MIGHT
HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT PERCEPTION
OF THE UNITED STATES IN TERMS OF
THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY HAD
WITH THE UNITED STATES, WHICH
HAS BEEN VERY MILITARIZED
RELATIONSHIP.
THAT'S ONE ASPECT.
WHEN THE CUBAN IMMIGRATION
HAPPENED, IT WAS, YOU KNOW,
MOSTLY A RESULT OF A CULT WAR
SCENARIO WHERE THIS 125,000
PEOPLE WERE, UNFORTUNATELY,
VICTIMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE
POLITICAL WARS BETWEEN CUBA AND
UNITED STATES.
THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT
SCENARIO.
THESE FOLKS ARE LEAVING A WAR
ZONE UNDER VERY REAL, VERY REAL
THREATS OF, YOU KNOW, VIOLENCE.
I THINK THAT'S THE MOST
IMPORTANT PART IN TERMS OF, YOU
KNOW, CONSIDERING THE WHOLE
GROUP, WHO THEY ARE, WHAT ARE
THE SPECIFIC NEEDS OF THE GROUP,
THE WOMEN, THE FAMILIES,
UNACCOMPANIED MINORS THAT MIGHT
COME IN THAT GROUP, OBVIOUSLY,
RELIGIOUS ORIENTATION IS GOING
TO PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN
HOW REFUGEES ARE WELCOMED INTO
THE UNITED STATES.
THE LANGUAGE IS GOING TO PRESENT
AN EVEN MORE SIGNIFICANT
BARRIER, YOU KNOW, THAN WHAT WE
THINK ABOUT SPANISH IN THE WAY
IN WHICH SPANISH IS SPOKEN IN
THE UNITED STATES TODAY.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THAT EASY
TO FIND INTERPRETERS AND
TRANSLATERS FOR THESE
POPULATIONS.
THERE'S A LOT OF WOMEN THAT HAVE
EXPERIENCED TRAUMA AND ABUSE,
AND THAT HAS ALSO -- IT'S A VERY
IMPORTANT REQUIREMENT OF HOW WE
MANAGE THIS EXODUS IN TERMS OF
QUALIFIED PERSONNEL, BUT IN MY
OPINION, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
ALWAYS THIS RUSH TO GO HELP AND
PROVIDE FOOD AND SHELTER.
I THINK, ACTUALLY, LISTENING IN
AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO
EMPATHIZE WITH THE GROUP AND
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
ACTUAL NEEDS OF THE GROUP ARE
MIGHT BE A MORE BENEFICIAL WAY
TO JUST KIND OF TAKE A PAUSE AND
THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT
ARE THE ACTUAL NEEDS OF THE
POPULATION IN TERMS OF NOT JUST
FOOD AND SHELTER, BUT BEYOND THE
TRAUMA THEY ARE EXPERIENCING AT
THE TIME, AND, YOU KNOW, THE
REPERCUSSIONS THAT THAT TRAUMA
IS GOING TO HAVE AND HOW TO
RESETTLE INTO U.S. COMMUNITIES.
IT IS TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT
THAT WE UNDERSTAND, REALLY, THE
SUFFERING AND NOT JUST THINK
ABOUT FOOD, SHELTER, JOB, AND
EDUCATION.
YOU KNOW?
OFTENTIMES IN THE HISTORY OF
REFUGEE MIGRATION, THAT IS THE
ASPECT THAT GETS LOST IN THE
RUSH AND ASPECT THAT GETS LOST
IN THE HUMAN, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA
THAT IS ATTACHED TO HAVING TO
LEAVE YOUR, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING
BEHIND AND LAND IN A PLACE YOU
JUST DON'T KNOW AT ALL.
THAT'S MY OPINION.
I KNOW IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED
ISSUE, BUT THAT'S THE FIRST
THING THAT I THINK ABOUT WHEN --
AS A REFUGEE MYSELF.
[LAUGHTER]
>> SO NOW YOU TOUCHED ON THIS A
LITTLE BIT, BUT ARCHIVES AND OLD
NEWS REPORTS TALKED ABOUT HOW
CASTRO EMPTIED OUT HIS PRISONS,
AND THESE CUBAN MEN WERE MOSTLY
CRIMINALS AND HOW PEOPLE AT
FIRST IN THE LACROSSE AREA WERE
VERY WELCOMING, BUT THEN IT
TURNED TO MISTRUST.
NOW, WOULD YOU SAY THAT THAT'S
ACCURATE THAT SO MANY OF THEM
WERE CRIMINALS, AND CAN MEDIA
HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON OUR
PERCEPTIONS, AND IN WHAT KIND OF
MEDIA LITERACY SHOULD WE THINK
ABOUT FOR TODAY'S AFGHAN
REFUGEES COMING TO THE U.S.?
>> THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT QUESTION, TOO, TO
THINK ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE
MEDIA IN ALL OF THIS.
WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENED IN 1980 WITH THE CUBAN
POPULATION, THE -- ONE OF THE
BIGGEST PITFALLS OF THAT WAS
PRECISELY THE ROLE PLAYED BY
U.S. NATIONAL MEDIA AND WESTERN
WISCONSIN LOCAL MEDIA IN TERMS
OF REPORTING, YOU KNOW, THE
EXODUS AND CUBANS AND, NO, IT'S
BEEN RESEARCHED AND DOCUMENTED
TODAY THAT ABOUT ONLY 7% OF THAT
POPULATION THAT CAME IN THE
EXODUS HAD CRIMINAL RECORDS OF,
YOU KNOW, CONSIDERED
SERIOUSNESS.
MANY, MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE HAD
BEEN IN JAIL FOR REASONS THAT
WOULDN'T QUALIFY AS A CRIME IN
THE UNITED STATES.
NOW, ALL OF THAT INFORMATION WAS
LOST IN THE TRANSLATION, TO SAY
IT IN A WAY.
ONE OF THE STEPS, AND I IMAGINE
THIS WILL BE THE SAME FOR AFTER
BEGAN REF -- AFGHAN REFUGEES,
AND ONE OF THE STEPS OF COMING
OUT OF FORT McCOY WAS AN
INTERVIEW WITH THE IRS AND
INTERVIEW WITH THE FBI WHERE
THIS PERSON WOULD BE ASKED, YOU
KNOW, ARE YOU A REMEMBER OF THE
COMMUNIST PARTY?
YES, OF COURSE.
THERE WAS NO WAY TO NOT BE A
MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY IN
CUBA.
THAT WOULD PUT YOU IN JAIL OR IN
A POSITION WHERE YOU WOULD BE,
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WOULD BE
SOCIALLY OUT AND KIDS IN SCHOOL
PUT IN CHAINS BECAUSE YOU SAID
NO TO THAT, AND SO TO AN FBI
AGENT SAYING, WELL, THIS PERSON
IS A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST
PARTY, SO THERE WAS A CLEAR
MISUNDERSTANDING THERE, AND I
REALLY HOPE THAT THAT 41 YEARS
LATER WE'VE COME TO BE BETTER
THAN THAT.
YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE STEALING
FOOD OR SELLING STUFF IN THE
BLACK MARKET OR ACTIVITIES BY
THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT, AND MANY
OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME IN THE
EXODUS, IN THE CUBAN EXODUS,
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO LEAVE
CUBA, THEY ACTUALLY LIED ABOUT
THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY, LIED ABOUT
CRIMINAL RECORDS, JUST SO THEY
COULD BE SENT TO THE EXODUS
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO LEAVE
ANYWAYS, AND SO THEY'D SAY, YES,
I'M A HOMOSEXUAL, WHEN THEY WERE
NOT REALLY, BUT SO THE RECORDS
THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WERE
RECEIVING, IF AT ALL FROM CUBA,
WERE COMPLETELY INACCURATE AND
VERY CONFUSING TO USE A KIND
WORD FOR U.S. AUTHORITIES.
NOW, ONCE THE PRESS, CUBAN PRESS
ACTUALLY WAS THE, YOU KNOW, THE
BODY THAT STARTED THAT NARRATIVE
ABOUT THIS IS THE SCUM OF CUBAN
SOCIETY THAT WE DON'T WANT.
WE ARE SENDING THEM OUT.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
THE ENEMIES OF THE REVOLUTION.
THERE'S A FAMOUS FIDEL CASTRO
SPEECH SAYING, WE DON'T WANT
THEM, WE DON'T NEED THEM, LET
THEM GO.
THAT WAS NEVER DISMANTLED BY THE
AMERICAN PRESS.
IN FACT, IT WAS SOLIDIFIED.
IT WAS MAGNIFIED.
THERE WAS SCENES OF MOSTLY BLACK
MEN, YOU KNOW, DISPLAYING
VIOLENT BEHAVIOR IMAGES OF THE
CAMPS.
THERE WAS A FAMOUS RIOT EARLY
THAT SUMMER THAT WAS COMPLETELY
TAKEN OUT OF PROPORTION BY THE
"NEW YORK TIMES," AND SO IF YOU
ARE A FAMILY HAD WISCONSIN AND
THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
WELCOMING, OPENING YOUR HOME AND
YOU HAVE CHILDREN, READING THE
NEWS, AND, YOU KNOW, READING
THERE'S STABBINGS AND THERE'S,
YOU KNOW, THE SEXUAL VIOLENCE
AGAINST MINORS WITHIN THE FORT,
WHICH THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, WHAT
DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN
WHEN YOU PUT 14,000 PEOPLE
CRAMPED IN A SPACE WITHOUT
KNOWING WHERE THEY ARE GOING OR
WHAT THEIR FATE IS GOING TO BE,
YOU KNOW?
OF COURSE VIOLENCE IS INEVITABLE
TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, BUT, YOU
KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, THERE
WERE A LOT OF OTHER POSITIVE
THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING IN
THE BASE THAT THE PRESS TOTALLY
IGNORED.
THERE WAS A LOT OF DETAIL
INFLUENCE TO THE POPULATION, THE
COMPOSITION OF THE POPULATION
THAT THE PRESS, WISCONSIN PRESS,
IGNORED.
IN 1983, YOU HAVE THE MOVIE,
"SCAR FACE," WHICH BECOMES,
PERHAPS, THE MOST VIOLENT FILM
OF THE '80s, YOU KNOW, NOW AN
ICON OF AMERICAN CULTURE
FEATURING PRECISELY A REFUGEE
THIS IS KING OF COCAINE IN MIAMI
AND THIS JUST COMPLETELY
VIOLENT, RUTHLESS, DISPLACED
INDIVIDUAL WHO ACTUALLY TURNS
THIS IMAGE OF THE IMMIGRANT
GANGSTER AS A FAMILY MAN, BUT,
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE THE
"GOD FATHER" EATING WITH HIS
FAMILY, BUT NOW YOU HAVE A
LATINO INDIVIDUAL WHO DOESN'T
LIKE FAMILY AND JUST ALL BY
HIMSELF, AND HE'S THE BADDEST
GUY ON THE PLANET, AND SO THAT
TRANSFORMED THAT IDEA OF WHO
THEY ARE IN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC,
YOU KNOW?
THERE'S A LARGE GROUP OF
HAITIANS COMING IN AT THE TIME
THROUGH MIAMI AND SOUTH FLORIDA
AS WELL, AND SO THE PRESS IS
ALSO SOMEWHAT MIXING AND
OVERLAPPING RACIAL OF HAITIANS
AND CUBANS.
UP TO THAT POINT, EVERYTHING
AMERICANS KNOW ABOUT A CUBAN IS
"I LOVE LUCY," AND THAT GUY IS
PRETTY WHITE, AND HE'S A
MUSICIAN AND KIND, NICE GUY.
A FAMILY MAN.
NOW THE PRESS IS, YOU KNOW,
CASTING CUBANS AND HAITIANS AS
IN THE SAME GROUP OF MIGRANTS,
MERGING RACIAL IMAGINARIES AND
COMPLETELY PRESENTING THEM IN
THE NEGATIVE LIGHT TO THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC SO THAT WAS
VERY, VERY DETRIMENTAL TO THE
WAY IN WHICH THIS GROUP OF
CUBANS EXPERIENCED RESETTLEMENT
IN AREAS LIKE LACROSSE, SPARTA,
YOU KNOW, WHERE AT THAT TIME,
HAVING 200, YOU KNOW, BLACK MEN
WALKING AROUND THE STREETS OF
LACROSSE, GOING TO BARS WHERE
THE SAME, YOU KNOW, COLLEGE
STUDENTS OR BIKER GANGS WERE
GOING WASN'T GOING TO END UP
WELL, YOU KNOW, AND SO, INDEED,
MANY OF THESE FOLKS WERE ENDING
UP IN TROUBLE WITH THE LAW, AND
MANY OF THOSE CONFRONTATIONS
WITH NEIGHBORS OR, YOU KNOW,
CASES OF FIGHTS, BAR FIGHTS WERE
STARTED BY WHITE WISCONSIN
RESIDENTS, BUT WHAT YOU HAVE IN
THE RED BIRD IS THE MANY, YOU
KNOW, COURT CASES THAT WERE FOR
CUBAN REFUGEES.
IN PARTICULAR, IN LACROSSE
COUNTY.
>> SO BASED ON THE EXTENSIVE
KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE OF 1980 AND
WHAT WE UNDERSTAND ONLY A
FRACTION OF THE CUBANS THAT CAME
TO WISCONSIN CAME TO FORT
McCOY AND ENDED UP RESETTLING.
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO SUPPORT
THIS HUGE POPULATION OF AFGHAN
REFUGEES, WHETHER THEY WILL BE
HERE TEMPORARILY OR THEY SETTLE
PERMANENTLY, AND WHAT DID WE GET
WRONG IN 1980 THAT WE HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO GET RIGHT TODAY?
>> RIGHT.
SO I THINK A BIG PROBLEM IN 1980
WAS EDUCATING THIS POPULATION
AND ACTUAL STEPS, NOT ONLY THE
REFUGEES, BUT THE SPONSORS,
WHETHER IT IS AN ORGANIZATION,
WHETHER IT IS A FAMILY, I THINK
ONE OF THE BIGGEST, YOU KNOW,
ERRORS OF THE TIME WAS THAT
FEMA, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW,
HANDLING DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS
AT FORT McCOY ALONG WITH THE
U.S. ARMY, OF COURSE, BASICALLY
LEAVES THIS REFUGEE TO AN
ORGANIZATION AND A FAMILY AND
NEVER ACTUALLY REQUIRE THEM TO
FOLLOW UP, NEVER ACTUALLY
REQUIRE THEM TO GO THROUGH ANY
SORT OF TRAINING TO WHAT'S NEXT,
YOU KNOW, AND, AGAIN, JUST
ASSUMING THAT THAT PERSON IS
GOING TO BE OKAY WITH FOOD AND
SHELTER.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH.
I MEAN, THIS IS, PARTICULARLY IN
THE CASE OF SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T
SPEAK ENGLISH, YOU KNOW, THERE
HAS TO BE LANGUAGE ACCESS TO
THEM.
I THINK LANGUAGE ACCESS, I MEAN,
IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT THINGS.
TODAY, WE HAVE A POPULATION OF
ABOUT 40 REFUGEINGS WHO STILL
LIVE IN THE LACROSSE AREA AND
HAVE TREMENDOUS DIFFICULTIES
WITH ENGLISH AND TREMENDOUS
DIFFICULTIES WITH ANY SORT OF
SOCIAL OR LEGAL SERVICE BECAUSE
THEY NEVER GOT IT RIGHT FROM THE
BEGINNING.
EDUCATING THE FAMILIES THAT ARE
GOING TO WELCOME THESE FOLKS, IF
THEY DO, INDEED, STAY IN THE
AREA, WHICH IS UNKNOWN AT THIS
TIME, EDUCATING THE
ORGANIZATIONS IN TERMS OF, LIKE,
WHAT ACTUAL STEPS ARE NECESSARY
FOR THE PEOPLE TO GET THEIR
REFUGEE AND ASYLUM STATUS IN THE
PERIOD OF TIME THAT IS REQUIRED
BY THE IMMIGRATION LAWS.
WHAT SORT OF SUPPORT DO THEY
NEED IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, NOT
JUST GETTING ANY JOB, BUT WITH
ACTUALLY HAVING ACCESS TO HIGHER
EDUCATION, HAVING ACCESS TO
FUNDS FROM THE STATE TO BE ABLE
TO PARTICIPATE EQUALLY IN AN
EQUITABLE WAY RATHER THAN JUST
SAY, OKAY, THEY ARE FINE, YOU
KNOW, THEY'RE WITH THE FAMILY,
THEY'RE GOING TO BE OKAY.
I THINK NOW IS ONE OF THE
BIGGEST PROBLEMS AT THE TIME.
I THINK ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE MADE
WAS, AGAIN, AS WE DISCUSSED THE
WAY IN WHICH THE PRESS
APPROACHED THE EXODUS.
THERE WAS ALWAYS A GOVERNMENT
OFFICIAL AND, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY
THAT HAS TO RESPOND TO THEIR
CONSTITUENTS OR VIEWERSHIP IS
ALWAYS VERY CAREFUL IN THE WAY
THEY DISCUSS OR PRESENT AN ISSUE
BECAUSE THEY, OBVIOUSLY, DON'T
THE TO LOSE SUPPORT OF THAT
POPULATION.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO
REMEMBER THAT THERE IS A HUMAN
ASPECT TO WELCOMING THE REFUGEES
THAT NEEDS TO PUT THAT, YOU KN
KNOW, BEYOND ANY SORT OF, YOU
KNOW, DUTY OR RESPONSIBILITY
THAT YOU HAVE TO YOUR AUDIENCE,
AND, YOU KNOW, EDUCATING THE
POPULATION, YOU KNOW?
THERE'S -- THESE POPULATIONS, I
THINK, ACTUALLY HAS MANY MORE
SIMILARITIES WITH MONG REFUGEES
THAT SETTLED IN LACROSSE DURING
THE '70s THAN THE GROUP THAT
CAME FROM CUBA BECAUSE OF, YOU
KNOW, AND I'M GUESSING THAT
THESE WILL BE MORE FAMILIES,
THIS WILL BE MORE WOMEN BECAUSE
OF THE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN
AS OPPOSED TO THE GROUP THAT
CAME FROM CUBA, WHICH WAS MOSTLY
SINGLE MEN, AND SO THERE'S A LOT
OF EDUCATION THAT NEEDS TO
HAPPEN AT PLACES LIKE, YOU KNOW,
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN
CAMPUSESES, JUST A LOT OF WORK
THAT STUDENTS AND FACULTY CAN
DO, A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT
CAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST UP
TO RELIGIOUS GROUPS TO COME OUT
AND HELP.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT
THE PRESS CAN DO TO EDUCATE ON
THIS SITUATION.
AFGHANISTAN, APART FROM THE ROLE
OF THE UNITED STATES' ARMY AND
THE FAILURE OF THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION AND ANYTHING LIKE
THAT, JUST THE HISTORY OF THE
TRAUMA, YOU KNOW, SHOWING PEOPLE
WHAT IT'S LIKE TO GROW UP IN A
COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN AT WAR FOR
40 YEARS.
AMERICANS, WE THINK ABOUT WAR AS
SOMETHING THAT TAKES PLACE
ELSEWHERE, YOU KNOW?
IT'S VERY HARD FOR US TO IMAGINE
WE HAVE WAR AT HOME, AND SO I
THINK JUST, YOU KNOW, WITH MY
STUDENTS SOMETIMES I TELL THEM,
WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THIS SEMESTER?
YOU KNOW, ANYTHING, CLIMATE
CHANGE, FEMINISM, THIS AND THAT,
BUT WAR IS NEVER AN ISSUE THAT
COMES UP, AND I'M, LIKE, YOU'VE
BEEN AT WAR SINCE YOU WERE BORN.
ONLY DIFFERENCE IS IT'S NOT
HAPPENED AT HOME SO IT IS HARD
FOR YOU TO VISUALIZE AND IMAGINE
WHAT IT'S LIKE TO THINK ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO
GREW UP AND WAS BORN AND GREW UP
IN A COUNTRY WITH WAR, AND SO,
YOU KNOW, I PLAN TO TALK ABOUT
WITH MY STUDENTS ABOUT THAT THIS
SEMESTER JUST TO GET THEM
STARTED ON THAT WAY OF THINKING,
YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE
OTHER IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IN
TERMS OF A MIRROR OF YOURSELF.
THERE'S A LOT OF EDUCATION TO BE
DONE, ESPECIALLY UP HERE WHERE
ISLAMAPHOBIA AND RACISM IS SO
VISIBLE IN OUR COMMUNITES.
>> WELL, WE NEED TO LEAVE IT
THERE.
OMAR GRANADOS, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR JOINING US AND SHARING YOUR
KNOWLEDGE OF THIS HISTORY AND
EXPERIENCE.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE FROM "HERE & NOW"
AND PBS WISCONSIN, YOU CAN VISIT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG/NEWS, AND THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON
"NOON WEDNESDAY."