>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
JOURNALIST WITH "HERE & NOW" ON
PBS WIN.
TODAY IS AUGUST 4.
THE DELTA VARIANT IS GRIPPING
THE CONTINENT, ESPECIALLY AMONG
THE UNVACCINATED, AND
HOSPITALIZATIONS AND INFECTIONS
ARE UP.
SO MUCH INFORMATION IS RAPIDLY
COMING OUT SO TO UNDERSTAND THE
LATEST FACTS IS DR. NASIA SAFDAR
AT UW MEDICINE, AND SO THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I WANT TO START WITH
UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN NEW CASE NUMBERS THAT
WE'RE SEEING IN DATA VERSUS THE
REALITY OF HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE
CATCHING THIS REALLY CONTAGIOUS
VIRUS.
IS DELTA MORE PREVALENT THAN WE
KNOW?
>> I THINK THAT IS CERTAINLY THE
CASE.
PEOPLE CAN CARRY THE VIRUS IN
THEIR NOSE AND HAVE NO SYMPTOMS.
THE ONLY WAY TO DETECT THAT IS
IF THEY GET TESTED.
WE KNOW DELTA IS MORE CONTAGIOUS
AND TRANSMISSIBLE THAN OTHER
VARIANTS BEFORE IT.
IT IS NOT A STRETCH TO EXPLAIN
THTHE CASE COUNTS IN NUMBERS HE.
>> DO WE HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING
OF WHAT THAT DIFFERENCE LOOKS
LIKE, HOW PREVALENT IT IS, AND
IS THE SHARP INCREASE IN
HOSPITALIZATIONS THE TRUE
INDICATOR OF HOW THIS VARIANT IS
TAKING HOLD?
>> WELL, DIFFERENT METRICS TELL
US SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
FOR INSTANCE, WE HAVE TO KNOW
HOW MANY CASES ARE THERE SO WE
HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT THE
MAGNITUDE OF THE PROBLEM IS AND
WIDESPREAD IT IS.
WHATEVER THE NUMBERS WE HAVE ARE
LIKELY AN UNDERESTIMATED TRUE
STATE OF EVENTS AS NOT EVERYBODY
IS GETTING TESTED.
IT IS SAFE TO SAY THE VAST
MAJORITY OF CASES SEENING HERE
IS THE DELTA VARIANT THAT'S
RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM, AND SO,
YOU KNOW, ONCE THE VARIANT
SPREADS LIKE THAT, IT QUICKLY
REPLACES WHATEVER ELSE WAS
CIRCULATING BEFORE IT, AND SO AT
THE MOMENTS IT IS ALL DELTA FOR
AN INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
I THINK THE HOSPITALIZATION
PIECE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT
TELLS US BESIDES BEING MORE
EASILY ABLE TO TRANSMIT IS ALSO
LEADING THEN TO MORE PEOPLE
GETTING SICK ENOUGH THEY NEED
MEDICAL CARE AND
HOSPITALIZATION, AND, SO FAR,
WHAT WE SEE IS, YES, PEOPLE ARE
HOSPITALIZED, BUT THE MAJORITY
OF THEM ARE NOT VACCINATED, AND
SO THAT ADDITIONAL LAYER OF
PROTECTION WE WOULD OTHERWISE
HAVE IS NOT THERE, AND THAT
RESULTS IN THEM GETTING MORE
SICK THAN THEY WOULD OTHERWISE.
>> NOW, YESTERDAY, THE
LEGISLATIVE RULES COMMITTEE
VOTED THAT UW CAMPUSES WILL HAVE
TO HAVE ANY REQUIREMENTS OF
VACCINATION, TESTING, OR MASK
WEARING BE APPROVED BY THE
REPUBLICAN MAJORITY COMMITTEE?
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> YOU KNOW, SO MY FEELING ON IS
WE HAVE A SUITE OF PUBLIC HEALTH
SOLUTIONS WE KNOW WORK FOR
CONTAINMENT.
FOR A WHILE THERE, WE RELAXED
THEM AS DELTA WAS NOT AROUND AS
MUCH, AND WE, YOU KNOW, DID NOT
FACE THE SAME EVOLUTION AND
STATE OF PANDEMIC WE FACE NOW,
AND NOW WHAT WE FACE NOW IS AN
ALL HANDS ON DECK APPROACH, AND
SO TESTING AND VACCINATION AND
MASKING ARE ALL VERY IMPORTANT
PARTS OF THAT SWEET OF
SOLUTIONS, AND SO WHATEVER WAY
WE CAN GET THEM EASILY DEPLOYED
SEEMS LIKE THE RIGHT THING TO
DO.
>> ALSO, YESTERDAY, PRESIDENT
BIDEN ANNOUNCED VACCINE
REQUIREMENT FOR FEDERAL
EMPLOYEES, MANY OTHER PLACES
HAVE ANNOUNCED VACCINE
REQUIREMENT LIKE THIS OR BE
SUBJECT TO REGULAR TESTING.
SHOULD LARGE INSTITUTIONS LIKE
THE UW SYSTEM REQUIRE A COVID-19
VACCINE FOR STAFF AND STUDENTS
AS WE'RE LOOKING TOWARDS THE
FALL SEMESTER?
>> I THINK IT IS REALLY
IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE WHO IS
ELIGIBLE FOR THE VACCINE TO GET
IT.
NOW, SOME PEOPLE WILL CHOOSE TO
GET IT ON THEIR OWN AND WHETHER
REQUIREMENT IS NECESSARY OR NOT
MAY BE A MOOT POINT, BUT THE END
GOAL IS, I THINK, EVERYONE WHO
IS ELIGIBLE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE
OPPORTUNITY AND SHOULD REALLY
WANT TO TAKE THE VACCINE AND
WANT THE VACCINE.
THIS IS A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE
INTERVENTION, REALLY, THE MAJOR
EFFECTIVE INTERVENTION WE HAVE
TO HALT THE COURSE OF THIS
PANDEMIC'S TRANSMISSION SO ANY
AND ALL MEASURES ALLOWING PEOPLE
TO GET THE VACCINE ARE LIKELY TO
BE USEFUL.
>> THE CDC IS NOW SAYING THAT
THOSE WHO ARE VACCINATED CAN
SPREAD THE VIRUS JUST AS EASILY
AS THE UNVACCINATED.
NEW GUIDANCE SAYING THAT
EVERYONE SHOULD BE MASKING
INDOORS, AND I PERSONALLY HAVE
NOT REALLY SEEN MANY PEOPLE
MASKING.
SHOULD EVERYONE BE MASKING, AND
IN WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A
CASE OF WHERE THERE'S BEEN A
CLEAR SHIFT IN THE THINKING, BUT
BECAUSE OF THIS VARIANT COMPARED
TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE, AND
SO IT'LL TAKE AWHILE FOR US TO
CATCH UP TO WHAT WE NOW NEED TO
DO TO PREVENT THE TRANSMISSION
OF DELTA.
I THINK THAT THE VACCINES ARE
DOING EXACTLY WHAT WE KNOW THE
VACCINES ARE CAPABLE OF DOING,
WHICH IS PREVENTING SEVERE
HOSPITALIZATIONS, SEVERE
SYMPTOMS, AND COMPLICATIONS.
WHAT THE VACCINES CANNOT DO
COMPLETELY IS PREVENT
TRANSMISSION OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T
HAVE SYMPTOMS, AND SO THAT'S
WHERE MASKS COMES IN HANDY.
FOR A WHILE THERE, WE WERE OF
THE MIND SET WE DON'T HAVE TO
MASK ANYMORE, AND IF NOT FOR
DELTA, THIS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN
TRUE, BUT THIS VARIANT HAS AN
ADVANTAGE OVER US IN THE LIGHT
IT'S SHED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE
VACCINATED SO MASKING NEEDS TO
COME BACK.
>> ARE CHILDREN WHO CAN'T YET
GET VACCINATED AT RISK, IS THERE
A WAY TO PROTECT THEM?
IS THERE A CONCERN THAT WHEN ALL
CHILDREN GO BACK TO SCHOOL AT
THE END OF THE MONTH, IT IS
REALLY GOING TO BE A MIXED BAG.
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WITH
RESPIRATORY VIRUS SEASON AROUND
THE CORNER WE'LL SEE A WHOLE
ARRAY OF VIRUSES CIRCULATING.
MANY OF THEM WE TYPICALLY SEE
EVERY YEAR, AND SARS-COV-2 WILL
BE THERE THIS YEAR AND WITH
PEOPLE TOGETHER IN CLOSE
QUARTERS, THERE'S MORE
CIRCULATION, AND AS A GROUP, A
BROAD GENERALIZATION, BUT AS A
GROUP, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN FAIRED
BETTER WITH SAR-COV-2 THAN OTHER
POPULATION GROUPS.
THAT'S NOT TO SAY THERE'S NOT
SEVERAL THOUSAND CASES AROUND
THE COUNTRY.
THERE HAVE BEEN, OF COURSE, AND
THAT'S WHY I THINK, ALL
MITIGATION MEASURES WE DO FOR
PEOPLE NOT VACCINATED AND FOR
THOSE WHO ARE VACCINATED ARE
GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.
THAT WILL INCLUDE, YOU KNOW,
DISTANCING TO THE EXTENT THAT'S
POSSIBLE, REMAIN ELEMENTS OF
TESTING, AND IT MAY INCLUDE
MASKS, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS
SHOULD NOT BE -- THEY SHOULD BE
CONTINUED.
>> NOW, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF
CONFUSION ABOUT THIS TERM, THIS
PHRASE CALLED "BREAKTHROUGH
CASES," AND WHAT IT REALLY
MEANS.
IT'S RANGED FROM VACCINATED
PEOPLE CAN TRANSMIT THE VIRUS TO
VACCINATED PEOPLE CAN GET VERY
SICK.
SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT DOES
BREAKTHROUGH CASES REALLY MEAN?
>> SO WHAT BREAKTHROUGH CASES
MEAN IS THAT EVEN IN PEOPLE WHO
ARE VACCINATED, THEY CAN STILL
HAVE COVID-19.
SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF
EXPLANATIONS FOR IT.
ONE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, NO
VACCINE IS 100%, AND EVEN THOUGH
VACCINES ARE HIGHLY, HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE, EVEN 95% EFFECTIVE
VACCINE MEANS SOME PEOPLE WILL
GET THE INFECTION DESPITE BEING
VACCINATED.
THE REASON THAT HAPPENS COULD BE
THE UNDERLYING IMMUNE SYSTEM OR
THE VACCINE DID NOT TAKE FOR
WHATEVER REASON.
THE NUMBERS ARE EXPECTED TO BE
VERY LOW FOR THIS KIND OF
BREAKTHROUGH.
THE OTHER KIND OF BREAKTHROUGH
INFECTIONS WE SEE ARE MILD
INFECTIONS HAPPENING IN PEOPLE
WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED, AND
THERE IS IT IS A MISNOMER TO
CALL IT A BREAKTHROUGH AS A
VACCINE IS NOT INTENDED FOR THAT
PARTICULAR SITUATION.
IT IS INTENDED FOR THE
HOSPITALIZATION AND
COMPLICATIONS.
AS WE SEE MORE SO-CALLED
BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS, THESE
MILD INFECTIONS IN PEOPLE, THIS
IS A REFLECTION OF THERE'S A LOT
OF CIRCULATING VIRUS, AND THE
VACCINE IS DOING WHAT IT IS
SUPPOSED TO, BUT IT CAN'T
PREVENT ALL THE MILD INFECTIONS
OUT THERE.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST 500
CASES, POSITIVE CASES, CONFIRMED
THAT CAME FROM THE DEAR DISTRICT
WHEN THE CELEBRATION OF THE
MILWAUKEE BUCKS WAS HAPPENING.
IS THIS AN ISSUE?
ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK
TO PREVENTING CROWDS FROM
GATHERING?
THEY WERE OUTSIDE, YET THEY WERE
VERY MUCH PACKED TOGETHER.
LOTS OF EVENTS ARE PLANNED AND
BACK ON THIS SUMMER AND GOING
INTO THE FALL.
DO WE NEED TO RETHINK THOSE?
>> YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT WE
DON'T HAVE TO, BUT I THINK THAT
THE CHALLENGE WITH SOME OF THESE
EVENTS IS THEY LOOK LIKE INDOOR
EVENTS IN THE SENSE THEY ARE
CLOSE TOGETHER, NOT MUCH
MASKING, AND PEOPLE ARE PACKED
IN CLOSE QUARTERS.
I REMAIN WORRIED ABOUT INDOOR
EVENTS MORE THAN OUTDOORS, BUT
SOME SORT OF POPULATION IN THE
SENSE NOT HAVING PEOPLE PACKED
TOGETHER IN OUTDOOR EVENTS I
THINK WOULD BE IN OUR BEST
INTERESTS.
THE CHALLENGE OF THE DELTA
VARIANT IS YOU NEED
INTERVENTIONS IN RESPONSE TO
WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN FRONT OF
US.
IF YOU KNOW THIS VARIANT IS
EASILY TRANSMISSIBLE, THEN
DISTANCE BETWEEN PEOPLE IS ONE
WAY TO PREVENT THAT, AND MASKING
IS ANOTHER.
THEY ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
>> SO ARE YOU MONITORING THE
MEDIA AND HOW MUCH
MISINFORMATION IS BEING PASSED
AROUND?
DO YOU THINK THAT IS HAVING AN
IMPACT ON THIS MORE CONTAGIOUS
VARIANT BEING ABLE TO TAKE AN
EVEN STRONGER HOLD?
>> I THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY A
LOT OF MISINFORMATION, AND I
THINK IT IS ALSO THERE'S
PANDEMIC FATIGUE, AND I THINK
PEOPLE ARE DOING THE BEST THEY
CAN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, AND
NOW TO BE CONFRONTED WITH A
VARIANT LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, IT
IS, OF COURSE, UNWELCOMED NEWS.
I THINK, THOUGH, THAT WE HAVE TO
STICK TO WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT WE
HAVE THIS ARRAY OF HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE VACCINES, AND A MILD
DISEASE, OF COURSE, ONEMENTS NO
DISEASE IF ONE CAN HELP IT, BUT
MILD DISEASE IS PREFERABLE TO A
SEVERE ONE.
IF VACCINES HELP US MITIGATE
THAT, THEY ARE WORTH THEIR
WEIGHT IN GOLD.
>> NOW, ROUGHLY HALF THE STATE
IS VACCINATED.
THE RATE OF NEW VACCINATIONS HAS
JUST PLUMMETED, AND HEALTH
OFFICIALS AT THIS POINT ARE
BEGGING PEOPLE TO GET
VACCINATED, PROVIDING
INCENTIVES, AND SO IF THIS RATE
OF VACCINATION, THIS LEVEL
PRETTY MUCH STAYS THE SAME, AS
WELL AS OUR ABILITY TO ENFORCE
PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES HAS BEEN
CONSIDERABLY STRICT, WHAT DO YOU
THINK THE PICTURE OF THIS VIRUS
IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE GOING
FORWARD?
>> WELL, I THINK IF WE REMAIN AT
LESS THAN IDEAL VACCINATION
LEVELS, WHAT'S LIKELY GOING TO
HAPPEN IS THE VIRUS WILL
CONTINUE TO CIRCULATE, AND IT
WILL AMPLIFY IN THOSE GROUPS WHO
ARE UNVACCINATED, AND
EVENTUALLY, WE'LL BE IN A
SITUATION WHERE WE MAY HAVE MORE
VARIANTS PERPETUATED BECAUSE OF
THE UNCONTROLLED RAMPANT
TRANSMISSION, AND SO I THINK
THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WE CAN
DO, THIS IS A WHOLE OF EVERYONE
RESPONSE HERE, AND WE ARE ALL
ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR OWN
PROTECTION AND THAT OF OTHERS,
AND SO THERE IS NOT ANYTHING
THAT'S HIGHER PRIORITY THAN
GETTING THE VACCINATION NUMBERS
UP HIGH AS WE CAN GET THEM.
>> WHAT ARE YOU BRACING YOURSELF
FOR IN THE FUTURE?
>> I THINK THAT WE ARE CONCERNED
POTENTIALLY ABOUT OTHER NEW
VARIANTS EMERGING.
I THINK HAVING SEEN THE STUFF
THAT DELTA CAN DO, FOR INSTANCE,
GIVING US A BETTER PICTURE OF
WHAT TO EXPECT IN THE FUTURE,
AND I THINK, EVENTUALLY, THOUGH,
WITH, YOU KNOW, EVEN MORE
EFFECTIVE VACCINES OR PERHAPS
THE BOOSTERS OR SOME OTHER
ELEMENTS OF PROTECTION THAT MAY
COME ABOUT, I THINK THAT WHAT IS
LIKELY TO HAPPEN IS THAT
SARS-COV-2 WILL BE EMBEDDED AS
PART OF THE USUAL RESPIRATORY
VIRUSES WE SEE IF WE GET IT TO A
POINT WHERE THE DISEASE IS MILD
AND VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, THEN
IT BECOMES INTO ONE OF THOSE
VIRUSES, BUT WE ARE A FAR CRY
FROM THERE AT THIS POINT.
>> WHAT IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU
HAVE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS
VACCINATED, UNVACCINATED, AND
ANYONE IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN
AS WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THIS
NEW PHASE OF THE PANDEMIC?
>> I THINK WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST
IS VACCINATION, OF COURSE,
NUMBER ONE, AND THEN MASKING, I
THINK, JUST LIKE WE WERE DOING
IN THE EARLIER DAYS OF THE
PANDEMIC, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE
A FOREVER THING, BUT IT NEEDS TO
BE UNTIL DELTA IS UNDER CONTROL,
AND SO VACCINATION, MASKING,
ENCOURAGING PEOPLE FOR PHYSICAL
DISTANCING, AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS
A BIT HARD TO TELL PEOPLE THEY
SHOULDN'T ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES
THAT GIVE THEM JOY BECAUSE IT'S
BEEN SO LONG INTO THE PANDEMIC,
BUT TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, OPT
FOR OUTDOORS RATHER THAN INDOOR
ACTIVITIES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
DR. NASIA SAFDAR, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE FROM "HERE & NOW"
AND PBS WISCONSIN, VISIT
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"NOON WEDNESDAY."