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>> The following program is
a PBS Wisconsin Original

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production.
>> An outpouring of support

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shows up for the release of
Salah Sarsour, a Milwaukee

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community leader detained
by Ice, setting the stage

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for a free speech
retaliation case against

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the US government and years
of record breaking tourism

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in the state diverges from
employer efforts to find

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seasonal help.
[MUSIC]

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I'm Shawn Johnson filling
in for Frederica Freyberg

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tonight on here. And now we
speak with an ACLU attorney

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and former immigration
judge working on Salah

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Sarsour case.
[MUSIC]

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And a new federal rule
could put some of the most

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vulnerable at risk of
losing Medicaid coverage.

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We check in on the tourist
season underway in Door

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County and in Milwaukee.
Columnist speaks to the end

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of an era as Giannis
Antetokounmpo moves on to

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Miami. It's "Here& Now" for
June 26th.

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>> Funding for here and Now
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> After 80 days in federal
custody, Salah Sarsour, a

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green card holder and
president of the Islamic

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Society of Milwaukee, was
released from a facility in

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Indiana. Sarsour was
arrested in a targeted

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operation on March 30th
when he was surrounded by

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Ice agents, the U.S.
Department of Homeland

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Security, in a press
release called Sarsour a

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criminal and a terrorist,
alleging crimes committed

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in Israel more than 30
years ago prior to coming

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to the U.S. and of which he
denies. Secretary of State

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Marco Rubio is reported to
have said that Sarsour,

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quote, poses an adverse
consequence to foreign

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policy considerations.
Sarsour is outspoken about

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the mistreatment of
Palestinians in Gaza by

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Israel. In the order
granting the motion for his

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release, a federal judge
stated, quote, Mr. Sarsour

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has raised a substantial
First Amendment retaliation

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claim which could render
his detention unlawful.

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Here to discuss the case is
a member of Sarsour's legal

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team. Sam Kohl, an attorney
with the ACLU of Illinois

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who is also a former
immigration judge. Sam,

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thanks for joining us.
>> Thanks for having me.

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>> You're familiar with the
arguments raised by the

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Trump administration
against Salah Sarsour. The

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secretary of state himself
said that he posed an

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adverse consequence to
foreign policy

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considerations. Were there
grounds to arrest and

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detain him?
>> No. Absolutely not. Mr.

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Sarsour has been a
upstanding person in the

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United States since he came
here over 30 years ago. He

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is a grandfather of nine US
citizen kids and has had

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absolutely no trouble in
the United States. The only

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reason he was arrested was
because he's an outspoken

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advocate for Palestinian
human rights, and that's

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why he's been targeted by
this administration. And

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that is absolutely not an
appropriate and lawful

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reason to arrest someone.
>> So what were conditions

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like for Mr. Sarsour in
jail?

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>> They're pretty bad. He
lost 30 pounds during the

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time that he was there.
He's also he also has some

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medical problems. He's a
type two diabetic, and his

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doctor required that he
have daily glucose, blood

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glucose monitoring. And he
was getting tested once a

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month. So that's that's not
great. And that could

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really pose some serious
risks to his health.

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>> Was there a chance he
could have been deported?

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>> So the case is ongoing.
Right. So he so he has been

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released from detention
based on our motion in

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front of a federal district
court judge. So Mr. Sarsour

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filed a petition for a writ
of habeas corpus, asking

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the federal judge to
release him from from the

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immigration detention. And
the judge hasn't ruled on

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that habeas petition quite
yet. But he did grant an

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interim release of Mr.
Sarsour while the court

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adjudicates the habeas
petition by saying that

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he's made a strong showing
that he might prevail in in

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the habeas petition. But
that doesn't mean the

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immigration case is over.
So Mr. Sarsour is still

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fighting deportation in
immigration court, and

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that's ongoing.
>> Okay. You're a former

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immigration judge yourself.
You've said this case is

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highly unusual. You've
never seen anything like it.

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How much of the case is
outside the bounds of what

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you'd normally see?
>> I was an immigration

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judge in the Chicago
immigration court for nine

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years, and I handled,
actually, a detained docket.

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That's a docket of
individuals who are in

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immigration custody. So
very similar to the

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situation that Mr. Sarsour
was in. And Mr. Sarsour's

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case is, in fact, in the
Chicago immigration court.

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And I can tell you, for one,
I have never seen anything

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like this at all. The first
of all, the the primary

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charge against him is, as
you noted, that letter from

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of Secretary of State Marco
Rubio saying that. NewsHour.

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Suarez really lawful
activity in the United

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States poses a foreign
policy risk to the United

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States. Now that that is
highly unusual and highly

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legally dubious. But the
other thing that is

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extraordinary about this
case is although the case

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is is assigned to the
Chicago immigration court,

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the judge that was assigned
to hear the case is not a

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Chicago immigration court
judge. It's actually a very

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senior level management
judge in the in the

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executive Office for
Immigration Review. It's

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the an acting regional
deputy chief immigration

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judge. It's essentially the
second in command of all

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the judges in the entire
immigration court system.

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So that case was plucked
out of the immigration

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court judges and
specifically assigned to

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this one management judge.
I've never seen that happen.

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>> So I gather you feel
like you have a strong,

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strong First Amendment case
here that his rights, your

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client's rights were
violated. Can you explain

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that?
>> Absolutely. Mr. Sarsour,

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as a longtime permanent
resident of the United

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States, has the same First
Amendment rights to speak

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and to engage in political
activity and political

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activism that that
essentially you and I do as

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citizens of the United
States. And so what's

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really happening is, is the
government is, is targeting

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him because they don't like
his speech. And that is is

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highly problematic. It is
it violates the

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Constitution, the First
Amendment. And, and we're

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very concerned to see this,
this these charges against

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him by the administration.
>> So you mentioned this,

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that this case is not over.
You have hearings coming up.

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How does this proceed? What
happens next?

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>> So there's another
hearing coming up. The at

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the end of July, July 22nd,
in the immigration court,

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where the government has
the burden of proof. In

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this case, they have to
prove the charges that that

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they have made against him.
And and aside from the

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charges, based on the Marco
Rubio determination about

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foreign policy, there are
some other charges that

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relate to things that have
been decades and decades

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ago, things the government
has known about for a very

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long time. And, you know,
we are we will fight these

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charges. We we are he has
very good defenses, and we

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are fighting them in
immigration court. And if

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we lose in immigration
court, we will continue our

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fight all the way up as far
as it takes, because

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everyone knows what's going
on here. It's not about

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anything that happened
decades ago. It's about

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what he's doing now, his
speech. And that's why he's

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being that's why he's being
targeted.

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>> All right. We'll be
watching the case. Sam Cole,

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thank you so much for
joining us.

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>> Thank you.
>> Changes to Medicaid

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eligibility in the One Big
Beautiful Bill Act won't

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take effect until January,
but advocates are worried

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that new work requirements
could put coverage in

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jeopardy. For many in
Wisconsin, the new changes

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will apply to those who
began receiving Medicaid

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when Wisconsin partially
expanded the program.

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Starting in 2027. This
group will have to work,

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volunteer or go to school
80 hours a month to

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maintain their coverage.
There are exemptions, such

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as for people considered
medically frail, but the

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rules to prove that
condition just got stricter.

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To unpack what this could
mean, we're joined by Tami

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Jackson from the Wisconsin
Board for people with

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Developmental Disabilities.
Tammy, thanks so much for

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joining us.
>> Thanks for having me.

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>> So I'd like you to get a
sense of the different

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groups of people that we're
talking about here. So

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first of all, when it comes
to people who are subject

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to these new work
requirements for Medicaid

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in Wisconsin, how large is
that group here? And can

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you give us a sense of
their circumstances?

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>> Sure. The group of
people that this applies to

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are folks in the BadgerCare
plus program. Wisconsin

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actually has many programs
that are funded by Medicaid,

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but it only applies to the
BadgerCare plus population

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and within BadgerCare plus,
there are lots of different

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kinds of people, including
some who we think will be

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subject to this new rule.
The Department of Health

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Services estimates about
200,000 people in

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BadgerCare plus will be
potentially subject to this

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rule, and they're worried
that about 63,000 are at

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high risk of losing their
coverage. And many of those

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people that may be at high
risk of losing their

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coverage are people who
either who may potentially

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fall into the medically
frail exemption, but they

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may have a hard time
proving that they are

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exempt. And the new rule
that was just released

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earlier this month gives
some clarity, but also

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leaves a lot of questions
unanswered for how people

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qualify to be exempt.
>> Can you explain that

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term medically frail as you
understood it when this law

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was passed? And then now,
as it's being defined in

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these new federal rules?
>> Well, the the medically

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frail category in the law
had a number of

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subcategories in it. And
when it was being debated,

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the law said, well, we
intend to, you know, exempt

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people with disabilities,
people with serious medical

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conditions, people that you
might expect would have a

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hard time necessarily
meeting a work requirement.

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But as it turns out, the
way that you proved that

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you meet one of these
categories is harder than

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you think. And it also
relies it's not enough to

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be able to be in one of the
categories. You also have

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to prove that you cannot
work those 80 hours as in

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the rule. So it's kind of a
double factor

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authentication where you
have to prove you belong in

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a category, and you also
prove that you can't work.

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And this applies to people
who are blind and disabled

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in, you know, that's one
exemption category. So

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somebody who's getting
Social Security, SSDI or

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SSI, another category is
people with serious mental

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illnesses. A third category
is people with physical,

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intellectual, developmental
disabilities who have one

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or difficulty with one or
more activities of daily

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living. And then people who
have a serious or illness,

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a serious medical condition.
And it looks like this rule

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leaves a lot of questions
unanswered, both as to who

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fits and who doesn't fit in
those categories, and what

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happens when you have
somebody who's in that gray

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area where they can work
some, but maybe not as much

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as 80 hours a month?
>> I'm just trying to

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imagine what it means to to
go through that process. If

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you do fit one of those
categories of proving it, I

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mean, what, what are they
going through just to take

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that step?
>> Well, and that's part of

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what is now falling to
states to figure out the

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rule will allow you to kind
of accept somebody's word

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for the first year. But
after that, you have to be

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able to document in an
auditable way that you meet

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these categories. And I
think for many, many states,

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including our own, there's
a mad scramble to try and

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figure out, well, how do
you prove that you fit into

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one of these categories?
There are some ideas in the

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rule about using past
billing data, for example,

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00:12:51,538 --> 00:12:54,908
from Medicaid. But we can
see as advocates that there

234
00:12:54,975 --> 00:12:57,911
are lots of ways where
people might not have

235
00:12:57,978 --> 00:13:00,881
access to the health care
system to be able to get

236
00:13:00,948 --> 00:13:04,318
the diagnoses or documents
they need. And then it is

237
00:13:04,384 --> 00:13:07,688
really unclear how you
prove that you cannot work

238
00:13:07,754 --> 00:13:10,557
those 80 hours, even if you
fit into those categories.

239
00:13:10,624 --> 00:13:13,393
>> When this law was passed,
I mean, the argument was

240
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:15,529
that taxpayers are going to
underwrite a benefit.

241
00:13:15,596 --> 00:13:18,465
People who receive it
should be required to pitch

242
00:13:18,532 --> 00:13:21,835
in. From your perspective,
now that it's becoming kind

243
00:13:21,902 --> 00:13:25,038
of a reality, what does
this miss?

244
00:13:25,739 --> 00:13:28,609
>> Well, I think the first
thing it misses is that two

245
00:13:28,675 --> 00:13:30,844
thirds of the people who
are in a Medicaid program

246
00:13:30,911 --> 00:13:35,249
are already working. So,
you know, for a lot of

247
00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:38,552
people, this this now
becomes a documentation

248
00:13:38,619 --> 00:13:41,088
problem to prove what they
already have been doing.

249
00:13:41,154 --> 00:13:45,058
And for other people who
are working part time, you

250
00:13:45,125 --> 00:13:47,794
know, you now have a group
of people who has to do

251
00:13:47,861 --> 00:13:51,498
more to keep their coverage.
What we know from other

252
00:13:51,565 --> 00:13:54,401
states that have tried
similar experiments in the

253
00:13:54,468 --> 00:13:57,504
past is that work
requirements don't actually

254
00:13:57,571 --> 00:14:00,440
lead to more people working.
What they do lead to is

255
00:14:00,507 --> 00:14:03,410
more people making
paperwork, mistakes, or

256
00:14:03,477 --> 00:14:05,946
states making paperwork
mistakes that cost people

257
00:14:06,013 --> 00:14:08,982
their health care coverage.
And that's particularly

258
00:14:09,049 --> 00:14:11,785
serious with the population
of people who could qualify

259
00:14:11,852 --> 00:14:14,821
to be medically frail if
they make a mistake and

260
00:14:14,888 --> 00:14:17,057
lose their health care
coverage. That could mean

261
00:14:17,124 --> 00:14:19,560
that they have an illness
that isn't getting treated,

262
00:14:19,626 --> 00:14:22,563
that they lose care
coverage that really could

263
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:24,331
literally cost them their
lives.

264
00:14:24,398 --> 00:14:26,133
>> All right. Certainly
something we'll be watching.

265
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,868
Thanks so much for joining
us.

266
00:14:27,935 --> 00:14:31,471
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Wisconsin hit record

267
00:14:31,538 --> 00:14:34,141
breaking tourism numbers
for 2025. According to a

268
00:14:34,208 --> 00:14:37,110
new report, it was the
fourth year in a row that

269
00:14:37,177 --> 00:14:40,881
it broke the previous high.
But a tourism boom is often

270
00:14:40,948 --> 00:14:43,784
accompanied by workforce
challenges, with many areas

271
00:14:43,851 --> 00:14:46,920
relying on seasonal workers
visiting with temporary

272
00:14:46,987 --> 00:14:50,224
visas. So far this year,
Wisconsin has received a

273
00:14:50,290 --> 00:14:53,493
fraction of the short term
workers with an H2B visa

274
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,463
that it has in the past. To
see how the industry is

275
00:14:56,530 --> 00:14:59,266
faring this year, we turn
to John Jon Jarosh, chief

276
00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:01,802
communications officer for
Destination Door County.

277
00:15:01,869 --> 00:15:04,905
John, thanks for joining us.
>> Yeah, good to be with

278
00:15:04,972 --> 00:15:07,908
you. Thank you.
>> So I think it's fair to

279
00:15:07,975 --> 00:15:10,444
say that a lot of people
will associate Door County

280
00:15:10,511 --> 00:15:13,680
with rest and relaxation,
you know, putting all your

281
00:15:13,747 --> 00:15:17,284
worries behind you. I
wonder what these staffing

282
00:15:17,351 --> 00:15:20,120
shortages, how these door
counting tourism businesses

283
00:15:20,187 --> 00:15:24,091
are feeling right now.
>> Yeah, we certainly had a

284
00:15:24,157 --> 00:15:28,395
few challenges with some of
the H-2b visas that are

285
00:15:28,462 --> 00:15:30,764
work. Our workers and our
employers have been trying

286
00:15:30,831 --> 00:15:35,302
to get, because we really
ramp up in the summertime

287
00:15:35,369 --> 00:15:38,872
as, as a lot of viewers may
know, it takes a lot more

288
00:15:38,939 --> 00:15:42,042
workers than we have that
live here to be able to, to

289
00:15:42,109 --> 00:15:44,978
operate our businesses and
to maintain a level of

290
00:15:45,045 --> 00:15:47,181
service. But I think most
people have come to expect

291
00:15:47,247 --> 00:15:50,050
when they visit Door County.
And so our business owners

292
00:15:50,117 --> 00:15:53,153
have had to go to
alternative methods to find

293
00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:56,456
enough workers to fill
those needs. And the

294
00:15:56,523 --> 00:15:58,926
primary one that we use
here is the Summer work

295
00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:02,362
travel program, or a J-1
visa. That's a fairly

296
00:16:02,429 --> 00:16:04,431
common one. That program's
been around for a long,

297
00:16:04,498 --> 00:16:07,568
long time. And a more
recent one that is used is

298
00:16:07,634 --> 00:16:10,938
what you had or you
suggested or said the H-2b

299
00:16:11,004 --> 00:16:15,609
visa. The numbers that of
H-2b workers that we've had

300
00:16:15,676 --> 00:16:18,378
in the last couple of years
pale in comparison to the

301
00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:22,382
number of J-1 visas that
are here in Door County.

302
00:16:22,449 --> 00:16:26,320
And so but nevertheless,
the the H-2b visa is an

303
00:16:26,386 --> 00:16:28,889
important one for some of
our businesses because

304
00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:32,159
those folks can stay longer.
They're not students,

305
00:16:32,226 --> 00:16:34,962
unlike the J-1 students
that are here. They have to

306
00:16:35,028 --> 00:16:37,931
be a student in order to
qualify for J-1 visa. So

307
00:16:37,998 --> 00:16:40,434
that means they're here for
only a couple of months.

308
00:16:40,501 --> 00:16:43,871
And Door County sees it now
is a good, you know, five,

309
00:16:43,937 --> 00:16:46,507
six months long at that
really that peak season.

310
00:16:46,573 --> 00:16:49,810
And so some of our
businesses have turned to

311
00:16:49,877 --> 00:16:53,847
the H-2 visa option, h-2b
visa option because they

312
00:16:53,914 --> 00:16:56,550
can stay longer and they
can stay through the entire

313
00:16:56,617 --> 00:16:58,852
season to make sure that
they're being covered. And

314
00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:02,155
we have enough workforce
through the the fall season

315
00:17:02,222 --> 00:17:05,025
in October into November.
>> Okay. So there are other

316
00:17:05,092 --> 00:17:07,761
parts of the state, maybe
where the season is shorter

317
00:17:07,828 --> 00:17:11,698
and those shorter visas
work, but the H-2b visas

318
00:17:11,765 --> 00:17:14,201
are more critical in Door
County because it has a

319
00:17:14,268 --> 00:17:16,803
longer season. Is that
right?

320
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:19,306
>> Yeah, that is that's
correct. And our season has

321
00:17:19,373 --> 00:17:22,209
expanded here in the last
1020 years in Door County.

322
00:17:22,276 --> 00:17:25,279
It really for for a long
time, it was Memorial Day

323
00:17:25,345 --> 00:17:28,916
to Labor Day. But that is
no longer the case. And so,

324
00:17:28,982 --> 00:17:31,952
you know, again, the J-1
visas this year, we're

325
00:17:32,019 --> 00:17:35,856
probably going to be in the
neighborhood of about 560

326
00:17:35,923 --> 00:17:40,227
of the summer work travel
students. And last year, I

327
00:17:40,294 --> 00:17:45,199
think we had maybe 85 to 90
H-2b visa workers that were

328
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,870
in the county. So again,
much smaller numbers. But

329
00:17:49,937 --> 00:17:52,706
increasingly, businesses
have looked to that as an

330
00:17:52,773 --> 00:17:54,775
alternative to make sure
that they have coverage

331
00:17:54,842 --> 00:17:57,110
longer in the season
instead of that three

332
00:17:57,177 --> 00:17:59,313
months that those, you know,
collegiate students that

333
00:17:59,379 --> 00:18:02,783
are here on the J-1 visa
are can can stay.

334
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:06,687
>> So why have they slowed
down these these visas?

335
00:18:06,753 --> 00:18:10,290
>> There's a couple of
reasons. Certainly we're

336
00:18:10,357 --> 00:18:13,227
unsure exactly why. I know
there's been some

337
00:18:13,293 --> 00:18:15,295
challenges with some of the
consulates. There is

338
00:18:15,362 --> 00:18:20,467
actually a cap on the H-2b
visa. And so when that cap

339
00:18:20,534 --> 00:18:23,403
is reached, a lot of times
businesses that may have

340
00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:27,708
put in a request for some
h-2b visa holders and to

341
00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:30,644
come and work, they just,
they, you know, the cap is

342
00:18:30,711 --> 00:18:33,747
hit and those are no longer
available. There's also a

343
00:18:33,814 --> 00:18:38,151
lottery system that is in
play. And if you draw a

344
00:18:38,852 --> 00:18:40,954
lottery number, I don't
know exactly how that

345
00:18:41,021 --> 00:18:44,625
system works, but your
chances of getting an h-2b

346
00:18:44,691 --> 00:18:48,729
worker are really slim, if
not none. And so again,

347
00:18:48,795 --> 00:18:51,431
it's a it's a much smaller
percentage of our workforce

348
00:18:51,498 --> 00:18:54,468
here. It's relatively new.
And so what we're learning

349
00:18:54,535 --> 00:18:58,238
this year is really what
the needs of our

350
00:18:58,305 --> 00:19:00,274
constituents are, our
employers, the businesses

351
00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:04,378
that have relied on them.
So we can use that as to

352
00:19:04,444 --> 00:19:07,714
help better advocate here
in the next year. Moving

353
00:19:07,781 --> 00:19:10,551
forward, the process to get
either a J-1 visa student

354
00:19:10,617 --> 00:19:14,154
or an H-2b is quite lengthy.
It takes a long time, and

355
00:19:14,221 --> 00:19:16,623
so it's not something that
you can just do over the

356
00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:19,593
course of a week or two.
And so we'll start to plan

357
00:19:19,660 --> 00:19:21,995
in our advocacy efforts
will kick in later this

358
00:19:22,062 --> 00:19:24,631
summer, probably going into
the fall when those

359
00:19:24,698 --> 00:19:28,035
processes need to start for
the summer of 2027 already.

360
00:19:28,101 --> 00:19:30,571
And so it, you know, we're
learning and we're

361
00:19:30,637 --> 00:19:32,439
certainly going to be
reaching out. It's a

362
00:19:32,506 --> 00:19:35,309
federal issue since those
visas are at a federal

363
00:19:35,375 --> 00:19:38,879
level, not at a state level.
And I'm sure we will talk

364
00:19:38,946 --> 00:19:41,381
amongst our tourism
industry peers across the

365
00:19:41,448 --> 00:19:43,584
state of Wisconsin to
figure out how we can

366
00:19:43,650 --> 00:19:46,553
better work together to
advocate for the needs of

367
00:19:46,620 --> 00:19:51,191
our tourism industry from
an employee standpoint, and

368
00:19:51,258 --> 00:19:53,560
particular with these visas.
>> So real quick, as we

369
00:19:53,627 --> 00:19:56,730
wrap up here with a lot of
travelers staying closer to

370
00:19:56,797 --> 00:20:01,535
home due to high gas prices,
can local destinations like

371
00:20:01,602 --> 00:20:05,606
yours handle another record
breaking year?

372
00:20:05,672 --> 00:20:08,775
>> Yes. The short answer in
Door County, I. I'm very

373
00:20:08,842 --> 00:20:11,678
confident that we can. We
are. Because of our

374
00:20:11,745 --> 00:20:15,182
seasonal nature. We are
comprised of entrepreneurs

375
00:20:15,249 --> 00:20:17,818
up and down this peninsula
and on Washington Island,

376
00:20:17,885 --> 00:20:20,621
and they always figure out
a way to, to, to make it

377
00:20:20,687 --> 00:20:23,524
work one way or another.
You know, they may have to

378
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:26,193
reduce hours a little bit
to accommodate maybe a

379
00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:28,996
reduced workforce to some
extent. But rest assured,

380
00:20:29,062 --> 00:20:31,198
people can expect the same
great service that they

381
00:20:31,265 --> 00:20:34,134
have or that they're used
to when they come to Door

382
00:20:34,201 --> 00:20:36,303
County. And it is shaping
up, I think, to be another

383
00:20:36,370 --> 00:20:39,139
great summer. Door County
is a great place, really

384
00:20:39,206 --> 00:20:41,375
close to home, and yet it
feels like you're a world

385
00:20:41,441 --> 00:20:44,211
away when you're here. And
we're anticipating another

386
00:20:44,278 --> 00:20:46,280
good year here in Door
County and look forward to

387
00:20:46,346 --> 00:20:48,148
welcoming everyone.
>> All right, we'll leave

388
00:20:48,215 --> 00:20:50,350
it there. Thanks so much
for joining us.

389
00:20:50,417 --> 00:20:53,654
>> My pleasure.
>> 13 years ago, the

390
00:20:54,621 --> 00:20:56,990
Milwaukee Bucks selected
the youngest player in that

391
00:20:57,057 --> 00:21:00,961
year's NBA draft.
>> To be NBA. NBA player.

392
00:21:04,298 --> 00:21:07,568
>> Giannis Antetokounmpo. A
lanky 18 year old from

393
00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:10,637
Greece, was seen as a roll
of the dice by a struggling

394
00:21:10,704 --> 00:21:14,341
small market franchise. But
Giannis grew up. He put the

395
00:21:14,408 --> 00:21:17,578
bucks on his shoulders. He
won fans hearts, and he

396
00:21:17,644 --> 00:21:21,215
made Milwaukee a champion.
That love affair is over

397
00:21:21,281 --> 00:21:24,451
now. After the bucks dealt
Antetokounmpo to the Miami

398
00:21:24,518 --> 00:21:27,621
Heat. Here to discuss what
Giannis meant to the city

399
00:21:27,688 --> 00:21:30,090
and where things went wrong
is Milwaukee Journal

400
00:21:30,157 --> 00:21:34,494
Sentinel columnist James
Causey James. Welcome.

401
00:21:34,561 --> 00:21:36,296
>> Hey, thanks for having
me.

402
00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:40,601
>> So I suppose it's an
emotional time. 'Any time

403
00:21:40,667 --> 00:21:44,905
that a star player like
Giannis gets dealt for the

404
00:21:44,972 --> 00:21:48,909
fans. But it just seems to
me like he had such an

405
00:21:48,976 --> 00:21:52,079
attachment to the city of
Milwaukee. How would you

406
00:21:52,145 --> 00:21:54,114
characterize it. And you
know what did he mean to

407
00:21:54,181 --> 00:21:57,317
the city.
>> Well I like to put it to

408
00:21:58,285 --> 00:22:01,288
you this way. Giannis was
our son. I mean he came to

409
00:22:01,355 --> 00:22:05,526
us as a young man very very
young. And the city wrapped

410
00:22:05,592 --> 00:22:10,197
his arms around him. And he
embraced us. He was he was

411
00:22:10,264 --> 00:22:13,500
our unicorn. He was a guy
who got us a championship.

412
00:22:13,567 --> 00:22:17,671
He was a guy who a funny
story about him. One time

413
00:22:17,738 --> 00:22:21,675
he was trying to get to the
arena and he got lost, and

414
00:22:21,742 --> 00:22:24,311
somebody saw him on the
side of the road and picked

415
00:22:24,378 --> 00:22:27,080
him up and dropped him off.
That's who Giannis is and

416
00:22:27,147 --> 00:22:30,350
that's who he was to us. So
losing Giannis is like

417
00:22:30,417 --> 00:22:33,587
losing a big part of of of
our city. He played for us

418
00:22:33,654 --> 00:22:38,225
for 13 years. One of the
longest reigns in the NBA.

419
00:22:39,059 --> 00:22:42,362
And he's going to be dearly
missed. But it was it was

420
00:22:42,429 --> 00:22:45,365
time for him to pursue
other endeavors.

421
00:22:45,432 --> 00:22:47,534
>> It's sort of a
thoughtful guy too, is he

422
00:22:47,601 --> 00:22:50,470
not the way he talks about
success, being a journey

423
00:22:50,537 --> 00:22:53,774
and living in the moment?
>> Oh yeah, of course. And

424
00:22:53,841 --> 00:22:56,276
you know, he was more than
just a basketball player.

425
00:22:56,343 --> 00:23:01,348
He also organized a diaper
drive that was critical for

426
00:23:02,783 --> 00:23:05,953
young moms who needed
diapers for their babies.

427
00:23:06,019 --> 00:23:10,891
Him and his wife were very
sponsored that he, he he

428
00:23:10,958 --> 00:23:14,962
was seen a lot in the
community. He was like I

429
00:23:15,028 --> 00:23:18,665
said, he was our son. And
and we embraced him and we

430
00:23:18,732 --> 00:23:22,035
loved on him. And, you know,
he got us our championship,

431
00:23:22,102 --> 00:23:23,704
our first championship in
50 years. So that's

432
00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:26,173
something 'that can never be
erased.

433
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,876
>> Yeah. I mean, it strikes
me that his story is such a

434
00:23:28,942 --> 00:23:32,846
perfect storm. He got so
much better, so fast. And,

435
00:23:32,913 --> 00:23:36,316
you know, then this
Milwaukee downtown was

436
00:23:36,383 --> 00:23:39,419
rebuilt. You had this state
of the art arena, the house

437
00:23:39,486 --> 00:23:42,322
that Jack built. You won
the championship. It just

438
00:23:42,389 --> 00:23:45,325
seemed like everything was
going so great. So why did

439
00:23:45,392 --> 00:23:48,729
it fall apart?
>> Well, it fell apart

440
00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:53,534
because honestly, I believe
it was a lot of bad moves

441
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,505
by the bucks trying to keep
the team above water. That

442
00:23:59,673 --> 00:24:03,243
didn't work. You know, the
shuffling of coaches that

443
00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:07,181
just didn't work. And what
we're hearing now is like

444
00:24:07,247 --> 00:24:10,050
not keeping Giannis in the
loop. And he was a person

445
00:24:10,117 --> 00:24:12,853
who honestly wanted to be
kept inside the loop. He

446
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,856
wanted to know what was
going on going on. What was

447
00:24:15,923 --> 00:24:17,858
the team's direction moving
forward. And it seemed like

448
00:24:17,925 --> 00:24:21,195
he was not privy to that
type of information. And

449
00:24:21,261 --> 00:24:24,898
for, for a young man who
gave his heart and soul to

450
00:24:24,965 --> 00:24:27,868
the team and to the city, I.
I wish that it could have

451
00:24:27,935 --> 00:24:29,903
been better and that
communication should have

452
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:33,974
been better. And we know
one thing he always wanted

453
00:24:34,041 --> 00:24:37,778
to win, and I think the
bucks tried to satisfy that.

454
00:24:37,845 --> 00:24:40,380
But at the same time, I
think he should have been

455
00:24:40,447 --> 00:24:42,482
privy of the inside
dealings that they were

456
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:44,785
trying to do to make sure
that that that happened.

457
00:24:44,852 --> 00:24:47,988
>> You know, it's tempting
for me to look at the Bucks

458
00:24:48,055 --> 00:24:50,591
and Giannis and think it's
only been a few years since

459
00:24:50,657 --> 00:24:53,393
they were on top of the
world. Why can't they just

460
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:55,395
kind of force it. Try a
little harder fix this

461
00:24:55,462 --> 00:24:58,265
thing.
>> Well that's the NBA.

462
00:24:58,765 --> 00:25:01,502
That's sports actually. You
know you think you you're

463
00:25:01,568 --> 00:25:04,371
part of a dynasty. And
quickly things could change.

464
00:25:04,438 --> 00:25:08,075
But it was a lot of things
that happened. Middleton

465
00:25:08,141 --> 00:25:11,979
seemed like it got old
overnight. The league

466
00:25:12,045 --> 00:25:14,248
changed to a three point
shooting team. And not not

467
00:25:14,314 --> 00:25:18,819
so much downhill. That made
Giannis famous the you know

468
00:25:18,886 --> 00:25:21,755
charging to the basket. So
the league's really adapted

469
00:25:21,822 --> 00:25:24,458
and changed. And I don't
think the bucks were able

470
00:25:24,525 --> 00:25:26,960
to keep up with those
changes in how the league

471
00:25:27,027 --> 00:25:30,030
changed so quickly.
>> So Giannis is going to

472
00:25:30,097 --> 00:25:34,301
come back to Milwaukee this
next season. And that

473
00:25:34,368 --> 00:25:37,471
famous last name is going
to be on another team's

474
00:25:37,538 --> 00:25:40,474
jersey. How do you think
he's going to be received.

475
00:25:40,541 --> 00:25:43,277
>> Well he's going to he's
going to receive one of the

476
00:25:43,343 --> 00:25:46,146
loudest ovations ever. I
and one thing that I could

477
00:25:46,213 --> 00:25:48,982
say Giannis never wanted to
be the bad guy in this

478
00:25:49,049 --> 00:25:53,020
situation. He never came
out and we didn't hear him

479
00:25:53,086 --> 00:25:56,857
demand a trade. Even though
you know some rumblings in

480
00:25:56,924 --> 00:25:58,792
within the bucks
organization that he wanted

481
00:25:58,859 --> 00:26:02,429
out. But he never made that
public. So I I have to give

482
00:26:02,496 --> 00:26:05,265
him credit for that. I, I
really think he wanted it

483
00:26:05,332 --> 00:26:07,668
to work here, but he's
going to be, he's going to

484
00:26:07,734 --> 00:26:11,705
receive probably the
loudest ovation ever for

485
00:26:11,772 --> 00:26:14,942
this, for this, for this,
for this city. So I look

486
00:26:15,008 --> 00:26:17,477
forward to it. And it's
going to be the hottest

487
00:26:17,544 --> 00:26:20,681
ticket in town.
leave it there. Thank you

488
00:26:20,747 --> 00:26:23,884
so much for joining us.
>> Thank you for having me.

489
00:26:23,951 --> 00:26:26,119
>> For more on this and
other issues facing

490
00:26:26,186 --> 00:26:29,289
Wisconsin, visit our
website at PBS

491
00:26:29,356 --> 00:26:31,024
wisconsin.org and then
click on the news tab.

492
00:26:31,091 --> 00:26:32,926
[MUSIC]
That's our program for

493
00:26:32,993 --> 00:26:37,564
tonight. I'm Shawn Johnson.
Have a good weekend.

494
00:26:44,571 --> 00:26:46,974
>> Funding for Here and Now
is provided by the Focus

495
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,712
Fund for Journalism and
friends of PBS Wisconsin.