>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin Original
production. >> An outpouring of support
shows up for the release of Salah Sarsour, a Milwaukee
community leader detained by Ice, setting the stage
for a free speech retaliation case against
the US government and years of record breaking tourism
in the state diverges from employer efforts to find
seasonal help. [MUSIC]
I'm Shawn Johnson filling in for Frederica Freyberg
tonight on here. And now we speak with an ACLU attorney
and former immigration judge working on Salah
Sarsour case. [MUSIC]
And a new federal rule could put some of the most
vulnerable at risk of losing Medicaid coverage.
We check in on the tourist season underway in Door
County and in Milwaukee. Columnist speaks to the end
of an era as Giannis Antetokounmpo moves on to
Miami. It's "Here& Now" for June 26th.
>> Funding for here and Now is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> After 80 days in federal custody, Salah Sarsour, a
green card holder and president of the Islamic
Society of Milwaukee, was released from a facility in
Indiana. Sarsour was arrested in a targeted
operation on March 30th when he was surrounded by
Ice agents, the U.S. Department of Homeland
Security, in a press release called Sarsour a
criminal and a terrorist, alleging crimes committed
in Israel more than 30 years ago prior to coming
to the U.S. and of which he denies. Secretary of State
Marco Rubio is reported to have said that Sarsour,
quote, poses an adverse consequence to foreign
policy considerations. Sarsour is outspoken about
the mistreatment of Palestinians in Gaza by
Israel. In the order granting the motion for his
release, a federal judge stated, quote, Mr. Sarsour
has raised a substantial First Amendment retaliation
claim which could render his detention unlawful.
Here to discuss the case is a member of Sarsour's legal
team. Sam Kohl, an attorney with the ACLU of Illinois
who is also a former immigration judge. Sam,
thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me.
>> You're familiar with the arguments raised by the
Trump administration against Salah Sarsour. The
secretary of state himself said that he posed an
adverse consequence to foreign policy
considerations. Were there grounds to arrest and
detain him? >> No. Absolutely not. Mr.
Sarsour has been a upstanding person in the
United States since he came here over 30 years ago. He
is a grandfather of nine US citizen kids and has had
absolutely no trouble in the United States. The only
reason he was arrested was because he's an outspoken
advocate for Palestinian human rights, and that's
why he's been targeted by this administration. And
that is absolutely not an appropriate and lawful
reason to arrest someone. >> So what were conditions
like for Mr. Sarsour in jail?
>> They're pretty bad. He lost 30 pounds during the
time that he was there. He's also he also has some
medical problems. He's a type two diabetic, and his
doctor required that he have daily glucose, blood
glucose monitoring. And he was getting tested once a
month. So that's that's not great. And that could
really pose some serious risks to his health.
>> Was there a chance he could have been deported?
>> So the case is ongoing. Right. So he so he has been
released from detention based on our motion in
front of a federal district court judge. So Mr. Sarsour
filed a petition for a writ of habeas corpus, asking
the federal judge to release him from from the
immigration detention. And the judge hasn't ruled on
that habeas petition quite yet. But he did grant an
interim release of Mr. Sarsour while the court
adjudicates the habeas petition by saying that
he's made a strong showing that he might prevail in in
the habeas petition. But that doesn't mean the
immigration case is over. So Mr. Sarsour is still
fighting deportation in immigration court, and
that's ongoing. >> Okay. You're a former
immigration judge yourself. You've said this case is
highly unusual. You've never seen anything like it.
How much of the case is outside the bounds of what
you'd normally see? >> I was an immigration
judge in the Chicago immigration court for nine
years, and I handled, actually, a detained docket.
That's a docket of individuals who are in
immigration custody. So very similar to the
situation that Mr. Sarsour was in. And Mr. Sarsour's
case is, in fact, in the Chicago immigration court.
And I can tell you, for one, I have never seen anything
like this at all. The first of all, the the primary
charge against him is, as you noted, that letter from
of Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying that. NewsHour.
Suarez really lawful activity in the United
States poses a foreign policy risk to the United
States. Now that that is highly unusual and highly
legally dubious. But the other thing that is
extraordinary about this case is although the case
is is assigned to the Chicago immigration court,
the judge that was assigned to hear the case is not a
Chicago immigration court judge. It's actually a very
senior level management judge in the in the
executive Office for Immigration Review. It's
the an acting regional deputy chief immigration
judge. It's essentially the second in command of all
the judges in the entire immigration court system.
So that case was plucked out of the immigration
court judges and specifically assigned to
this one management judge. I've never seen that happen.
>> So I gather you feel like you have a strong,
strong First Amendment case here that his rights, your
client's rights were violated. Can you explain
that? >> Absolutely. Mr. Sarsour,
as a longtime permanent resident of the United
States, has the same First Amendment rights to speak
and to engage in political activity and political
activism that that essentially you and I do as
citizens of the United States. And so what's
really happening is, is the government is, is targeting
him because they don't like his speech. And that is is
highly problematic. It is it violates the
Constitution, the First Amendment. And, and we're
very concerned to see this, this these charges against
him by the administration. >> So you mentioned this,
that this case is not over. You have hearings coming up.
How does this proceed? What happens next?
>> So there's another hearing coming up. The at
the end of July, July 22nd, in the immigration court,
where the government has the burden of proof. In
this case, they have to prove the charges that that
they have made against him. And and aside from the
charges, based on the Marco Rubio determination about
foreign policy, there are some other charges that
relate to things that have been decades and decades
ago, things the government has known about for a very
long time. And, you know, we are we will fight these
charges. We we are he has very good defenses, and we
are fighting them in immigration court. And if
we lose in immigration court, we will continue our
fight all the way up as far as it takes, because
everyone knows what's going on here. It's not about
anything that happened decades ago. It's about
what he's doing now, his speech. And that's why he's
being that's why he's being targeted.
>> All right. We'll be watching the case. Sam Cole,
thank you so much for joining us.
>> Thank you. >> Changes to Medicaid
eligibility in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act won't
take effect until January, but advocates are worried
that new work requirements could put coverage in
jeopardy. For many in Wisconsin, the new changes
will apply to those who began receiving Medicaid
when Wisconsin partially expanded the program.
Starting in 2027. This group will have to work,
volunteer or go to school 80 hours a month to
maintain their coverage. There are exemptions, such
as for people considered medically frail, but the
rules to prove that condition just got stricter.
To unpack what this could mean, we're joined by Tami
Jackson from the Wisconsin Board for people with
Developmental Disabilities. Tammy, thanks so much for
joining us. >> Thanks for having me.
>> So I'd like you to get a sense of the different
groups of people that we're talking about here. So
first of all, when it comes to people who are subject
to these new work requirements for Medicaid
in Wisconsin, how large is that group here? And can
you give us a sense of their circumstances?
>> Sure. The group of people that this applies to
are folks in the BadgerCare plus program. Wisconsin
actually has many programs that are funded by Medicaid,
but it only applies to the BadgerCare plus population
and within BadgerCare plus, there are lots of different
kinds of people, including some who we think will be
subject to this new rule. The Department of Health
Services estimates about 200,000 people in
BadgerCare plus will be potentially subject to this
rule, and they're worried that about 63,000 are at
high risk of losing their coverage. And many of those
people that may be at high risk of losing their
coverage are people who either who may potentially
fall into the medically frail exemption, but they
may have a hard time proving that they are
exempt. And the new rule that was just released
earlier this month gives some clarity, but also
leaves a lot of questions unanswered for how people
qualify to be exempt. >> Can you explain that
term medically frail as you understood it when this law
was passed? And then now, as it's being defined in
these new federal rules? >> Well, the the medically
frail category in the law had a number of
subcategories in it. And when it was being debated,
the law said, well, we intend to, you know, exempt
people with disabilities, people with serious medical
conditions, people that you might expect would have a
hard time necessarily meeting a work requirement.
But as it turns out, the way that you proved that
you meet one of these categories is harder than
you think. And it also relies it's not enough to
be able to be in one of the categories. You also have
to prove that you cannot work those 80 hours as in
the rule. So it's kind of a double factor
authentication where you have to prove you belong in
a category, and you also prove that you can't work.
And this applies to people who are blind and disabled
in, you know, that's one exemption category. So
somebody who's getting Social Security, SSDI or
SSI, another category is people with serious mental
illnesses. A third category is people with physical,
intellectual, developmental disabilities who have one
or difficulty with one or more activities of daily
living. And then people who have a serious or illness,
a serious medical condition. And it looks like this rule
leaves a lot of questions unanswered, both as to who
fits and who doesn't fit in those categories, and what
happens when you have somebody who's in that gray
area where they can work some, but maybe not as much
as 80 hours a month? >> I'm just trying to
imagine what it means to to go through that process. If
you do fit one of those categories of proving it, I
mean, what, what are they going through just to take
that step? >> Well, and that's part of
what is now falling to states to figure out the
rule will allow you to kind of accept somebody's word
for the first year. But after that, you have to be
able to document in an auditable way that you meet
these categories. And I think for many, many states,
including our own, there's a mad scramble to try and
figure out, well, how do you prove that you fit into
one of these categories? There are some ideas in the
rule about using past billing data, for example,
from Medicaid. But we can see as advocates that there
are lots of ways where people might not have
access to the health care system to be able to get
the diagnoses or documents they need. And then it is
really unclear how you prove that you cannot work
those 80 hours, even if you fit into those categories.
>> When this law was passed, I mean, the argument was
that taxpayers are going to underwrite a benefit.
People who receive it should be required to pitch
in. From your perspective, now that it's becoming kind
of a reality, what does this miss?
>> Well, I think the first thing it misses is that two
thirds of the people who are in a Medicaid program
are already working. So, you know, for a lot of
people, this this now becomes a documentation
problem to prove what they already have been doing.
And for other people who are working part time, you
know, you now have a group of people who has to do
more to keep their coverage. What we know from other
states that have tried similar experiments in the
past is that work requirements don't actually
lead to more people working. What they do lead to is
more people making paperwork, mistakes, or
states making paperwork mistakes that cost people
their health care coverage. And that's particularly
serious with the population of people who could qualify
to be medically frail if they make a mistake and
lose their health care coverage. That could mean
that they have an illness that isn't getting treated,
that they lose care coverage that really could
literally cost them their lives.
>> All right. Certainly something we'll be watching.
Thanks so much for joining us.
>> Thanks for having me. >> Wisconsin hit record
breaking tourism numbers for 2025. According to a
new report, it was the fourth year in a row that
it broke the previous high. But a tourism boom is often
accompanied by workforce challenges, with many areas
relying on seasonal workers visiting with temporary
visas. So far this year, Wisconsin has received a
fraction of the short term workers with an H2B visa
that it has in the past. To see how the industry is
faring this year, we turn to John Jon Jarosh, chief
communications officer for Destination Door County.
John, thanks for joining us. >> Yeah, good to be with
you. Thank you. >> So I think it's fair to
say that a lot of people will associate Door County
with rest and relaxation, you know, putting all your
worries behind you. I wonder what these staffing
shortages, how these door counting tourism businesses
are feeling right now. >> Yeah, we certainly had a
few challenges with some of the H-2b visas that are
work. Our workers and our employers have been trying
to get, because we really ramp up in the summertime
as, as a lot of viewers may know, it takes a lot more
workers than we have that live here to be able to, to
operate our businesses and to maintain a level of
service. But I think most people have come to expect
when they visit Door County. And so our business owners
have had to go to alternative methods to find
enough workers to fill those needs. And the
primary one that we use here is the Summer work
travel program, or a J-1 visa. That's a fairly
common one. That program's been around for a long,
long time. And a more recent one that is used is
what you had or you suggested or said the H-2b
visa. The numbers that of H-2b workers that we've had
in the last couple of years pale in comparison to the
number of J-1 visas that are here in Door County.
And so but nevertheless, the the H-2b visa is an
important one for some of our businesses because
those folks can stay longer. They're not students,
unlike the J-1 students that are here. They have to
be a student in order to qualify for J-1 visa. So
that means they're here for only a couple of months.
And Door County sees it now is a good, you know, five,
six months long at that really that peak season.
And so some of our businesses have turned to
the H-2 visa option, h-2b visa option because they
can stay longer and they can stay through the entire
season to make sure that they're being covered. And
we have enough workforce through the the fall season
in October into November. >> Okay. So there are other
parts of the state, maybe where the season is shorter
and those shorter visas work, but the H-2b visas
are more critical in Door County because it has a
longer season. Is that right?
>> Yeah, that is that's correct. And our season has
expanded here in the last 1020 years in Door County.
It really for for a long time, it was Memorial Day
to Labor Day. But that is no longer the case. And so,
you know, again, the J-1 visas this year, we're
probably going to be in the neighborhood of about 560
of the summer work travel students. And last year, I
think we had maybe 85 to 90 H-2b visa workers that were
in the county. So again, much smaller numbers. But
increasingly, businesses have looked to that as an
alternative to make sure that they have coverage
longer in the season instead of that three
months that those, you know, collegiate students that
are here on the J-1 visa are can can stay.
>> So why have they slowed down these these visas?
>> There's a couple of reasons. Certainly we're
unsure exactly why. I know there's been some
challenges with some of the consulates. There is
actually a cap on the H-2b visa. And so when that cap
is reached, a lot of times businesses that may have
put in a request for some h-2b visa holders and to
come and work, they just, they, you know, the cap is
hit and those are no longer available. There's also a
lottery system that is in play. And if you draw a
lottery number, I don't know exactly how that
system works, but your chances of getting an h-2b
worker are really slim, if not none. And so again,
it's a it's a much smaller percentage of our workforce
here. It's relatively new. And so what we're learning
this year is really what the needs of our
constituents are, our employers, the businesses
that have relied on them. So we can use that as to
help better advocate here in the next year. Moving
forward, the process to get either a J-1 visa student
or an H-2b is quite lengthy. It takes a long time, and
so it's not something that you can just do over the
course of a week or two. And so we'll start to plan
in our advocacy efforts will kick in later this
summer, probably going into the fall when those
processes need to start for the summer of 2027 already.
And so it, you know, we're learning and we're
certainly going to be reaching out. It's a
federal issue since those visas are at a federal
level, not at a state level. And I'm sure we will talk
amongst our tourism industry peers across the
state of Wisconsin to figure out how we can
better work together to advocate for the needs of
our tourism industry from an employee standpoint, and
particular with these visas. >> So real quick, as we
wrap up here with a lot of travelers staying closer to
home due to high gas prices, can local destinations like
yours handle another record breaking year?
>> Yes. The short answer in Door County, I. I'm very
confident that we can. We are. Because of our
seasonal nature. We are comprised of entrepreneurs
up and down this peninsula and on Washington Island,
and they always figure out a way to, to, to make it
work one way or another. You know, they may have to
reduce hours a little bit to accommodate maybe a
reduced workforce to some extent. But rest assured,
people can expect the same great service that they
have or that they're used to when they come to Door
County. And it is shaping up, I think, to be another
great summer. Door County is a great place, really
close to home, and yet it feels like you're a world
away when you're here. And we're anticipating another
good year here in Door County and look forward to
welcoming everyone. >> All right, we'll leave
it there. Thanks so much for joining us.
>> My pleasure. >> 13 years ago, the
Milwaukee Bucks selected the youngest player in that
year's NBA draft. >> To be NBA. NBA player.
>> Giannis Antetokounmpo. A lanky 18 year old from
Greece, was seen as a roll of the dice by a struggling
small market franchise. But Giannis grew up. He put the
bucks on his shoulders. He won fans hearts, and he
made Milwaukee a champion. That love affair is over
now. After the bucks dealt Antetokounmpo to the Miami
Heat. Here to discuss what Giannis meant to the city
and where things went wrong is Milwaukee Journal
Sentinel columnist James Causey James. Welcome.
>> Hey, thanks for having me.
>> So I suppose it's an emotional time. 'Any time
that a star player like Giannis gets dealt for the
fans. But it just seems to me like he had such an
attachment to the city of Milwaukee. How would you
characterize it. And you know what did he mean to
the city. >> Well I like to put it to
you this way. Giannis was our son. I mean he came to
us as a young man very very young. And the city wrapped
his arms around him. And he embraced us. He was he was
our unicorn. He was a guy who got us a championship.
He was a guy who a funny story about him. One time
he was trying to get to the arena and he got lost, and
somebody saw him on the side of the road and picked
him up and dropped him off. That's who Giannis is and
that's who he was to us. So losing Giannis is like
losing a big part of of of our city. He played for us
for 13 years. One of the longest reigns in the NBA.
And he's going to be dearly missed. But it was it was
time for him to pursue other endeavors.
>> It's sort of a thoughtful guy too, is he
not the way he talks about success, being a journey
and living in the moment? >> Oh yeah, of course. And
you know, he was more than just a basketball player.
He also organized a diaper drive that was critical for
young moms who needed diapers for their babies.
Him and his wife were very sponsored that he, he he
was seen a lot in the community. He was like I
said, he was our son. And and we embraced him and we
loved on him. And, you know, he got us our championship,
our first championship in 50 years. So that's
something 'that can never be erased.
>> Yeah. I mean, it strikes me that his story is such a
perfect storm. He got so much better, so fast. And,
you know, then this Milwaukee downtown was
rebuilt. You had this state of the art arena, the house
that Jack built. You won the championship. It just
seemed like everything was going so great. So why did
it fall apart? >> Well, it fell apart
because honestly, I believe it was a lot of bad moves
by the bucks trying to keep the team above water. That
didn't work. You know, the shuffling of coaches that
just didn't work. And what we're hearing now is like
not keeping Giannis in the loop. And he was a person
who honestly wanted to be kept inside the loop. He
wanted to know what was going on going on. What was
the team's direction moving forward. And it seemed like
he was not privy to that type of information. And
for, for a young man who gave his heart and soul to
the team and to the city, I. I wish that it could have
been better and that communication should have
been better. And we know one thing he always wanted
to win, and I think the bucks tried to satisfy that.
But at the same time, I think he should have been
privy of the inside dealings that they were
trying to do to make sure that that that happened.
>> You know, it's tempting for me to look at the Bucks
and Giannis and think it's only been a few years since
they were on top of the world. Why can't they just
kind of force it. Try a little harder fix this
thing. >> Well that's the NBA.
That's sports actually. You know you think you you're
part of a dynasty. And quickly things could change.
But it was a lot of things that happened. Middleton
seemed like it got old overnight. The league
changed to a three point shooting team. And not not
so much downhill. That made Giannis famous the you know
charging to the basket. So the league's really adapted
and changed. And I don't think the bucks were able
to keep up with those changes in how the league
changed so quickly. >> So Giannis is going to
come back to Milwaukee this next season. And that
famous last name is going to be on another team's
jersey. How do you think he's going to be received.
>> Well he's going to he's going to receive one of the
loudest ovations ever. I and one thing that I could
say Giannis never wanted to be the bad guy in this
situation. He never came out and we didn't hear him
demand a trade. Even though you know some rumblings in
within the bucks organization that he wanted
out. But he never made that public. So I I have to give
him credit for that. I, I really think he wanted it
to work here, but he's going to be, he's going to
receive probably the loudest ovation ever for
this, for this, for this, for this city. So I look
forward to it. And it's going to be the hottest
ticket in town. leave it there. Thank you
so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me.
>> For more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS
wisconsin.org and then click on the news tab.
[MUSIC] That's our program for
tonight. I'm Shawn Johnson. Have a good weekend.
>> Funding for Here and Now is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and friends of PBS Wisconsin.