>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin Original
Production. >> A blowout election night
has Democrats and Republicans analyzing what
went right and what went wrong, and unprecedented
threats over social media. Has Wisconsin Republicans
distancing themselves from the president?
[MUSIC] I'm Frederica Freyberg
tonight on "Here& Now" Congressman Mark Pocan
joins to stake his position on the war in Iran and the
request to increase military spending, a wrap
of the spring election, and how Democrats in the
crowded field for governor are setting their sights on
the primaries. And our political panelists, Bill
McCoshen and Scot Ross, tell us what this all means
heading into the fall elections. It's "Here& Now"
for April 10th. [MUSIC]
>> Funding for Here and now is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> A terrifying week in global warfare brings
cautious relief. Days later, by way of a two week
ceasefire in Iran, citizens on the sidelines may wonder
where their congressional representatives stand and
how they are responding to the war. Tonight, we turn
to second District Democratic Congressman Mark
Pocan. We should note we reached out to Republicans
in several districts without reply. Congressman,
thanks very much for being here.
>> Sure. >> Thank you. So on Tuesday
this week, the world was on tenterhooks waiting
president Trump's threat that a whole civilization
will die tonight unless Iran opened the Strait of
Hormuz and then the announcement of a cease
fire. The white House says it was a tactic that worked.
What do you say? >> You know, this is chaos
piled on top of chaos, piled on top of uncertainty,
right. I don't think Donald Trump, from day one really
had a plan on how to deal with what he was doing
going into Iran. And we're seeing that all unfold
right now. And that rhetoric just has been
unseen by any world leader previously. And and even
now, the cease fire is still has all kinds of
uncertainty. We not exactly sure what all the standards
were. Donald Trump said he knows the ten. He'll tell
you if they're met. That's ridiculous. And Iran just I
saw today said two conditions aren't met yet.
The stopping of the bombing in Lebanon and releasing
some funds to them, which that was the first time I
actually had kind of heard that part of whatever was
negotiated. So this is just a complete mess. Our gas
prices are going up, our respect across the world is
going down. And it was a war of choice. There was no
imminent threat to the United States. And that's
the only time the president could initiate this without
Congress. So, you know, to call it chaotic is probably
an insult to the word chaos. >> You and others have
called to invoke the 25th amendment to remove Donald
Trump from office. Now, that would take the vice
president and the majority of the cabinet to declare
the president unfit. So is is this really a rhetorical
demand on your and others parts?
>> Yeah, I think this is a signal to the world that
don't hate America. There are normal people here
because what Donald Trump is doing is hurting our
place across the globe right now. You know, some
of our best trading partners in Japan and South
Korea rely on like 70% of their energy coming through
the Straits of Hormuz. The fact that now they're
paying the price of Donald Trump's bad decision, the
fact that our best allies were not informed going
into this. So now they're not participating, which I
totally understand. But Donald Trump doesn't. We
have to express that as a nation. This we understand
this is a bad decision. What he did in a couple of
those those social media posts this week were beyond
a bad decision. And I seriously and many others
question whether or not he's able to do this job.
But we want others to understand that many of us
do question his capability. >> Wisconsin polling shows
that 61% of voters oppose this war, many of them
probably in your district. But what levers of power do
you and others in Congress have over this? Will Dems
continue to push for a war powers resolution?
>> Yeah, we'll push for War powers resolution next week
when we're back in Washington. And I'll tell
you, this is one where, you know, we need some of the
Republicans from Wisconsin across the country to reach
around their backs and feel if they have a bone down
the middle called a spine, because it's necessary for
Congress to stand up and stop Donald Trump from this
chaotic behavior, it is up to Congress to initiate war.
That's according to the Constitution. And I've
heard a few Republicans say they're waiting 90 days and
all this other stuff. The Constitution doesn't say
the Constitution gives the power to Congress on this.
So we have to act and take the responsible role in
this. And if we don't, then unfortunately, we continue
to pay higher prices at the gas pumps. We continue to
hurt ourselves with other countries across the world.
So there's a lot riding on this. And we need Wisconsin
Republicans and others in Congress to stand up and
and grow a spine. >> Why should Wisconsinites
care about a conflict happening half a world away?
>> A lot of reasons. I mean, you're seeing it right now
in gas prices. They're up. What about $1.20 a gallon
right now because of what's going on? This is going to
continue for months. If this ended today, Frederica,
we will see gas prices in those increases for months
to come yet. So this was a terrible decision that was
done by the white House. But you should care because
also our trade around the world is chaotic as Donald
Trump's tariffs have been. It's important that we have
partners across the globe that buy American products
that create American jobs. And when we're hurting
ourselves like we are with this right now, we
jeopardize our role in being able to do that. So
it's about jobs. It's about your pay. It's about what
you're paying for goods because we're paying too
much for everything from groceries and everyday
goods because of tariffs to health care and utilities,
because of the big ugly law. And now we're paying too
much for gas because of this. There's a lot of
reasons we should pay attention and care.
>> As to rising inflation. I see that consumer
sentiment just ranked at the lowest on record in in
the US. And meanwhile, Trump's budget calls for
$1.5 trillion in defense spending. This would not be,
I trust, a priority of yours.
>> No. In fact, I think what the president said is
we don't have money for things like child care
because he wants to put it into the national the
Pentagon's budget, essentially, because he's
wasting so many weapons right now while he's doing
this war of choice in Iran. And, you know, I think if
you talk to the average person, certainly the
care is far more important than what he's doing right
now. So the fact that he doesn't understand, let's
face it, he's the Epstein class, right? He's a really,
really rich guy who is out of touch with what it is to
actually live paycheck to paycheck, to pay a mortgage,
to make sure you have health care for your family.
Can you budget for a vacation? This guy hangs
out at Mar a Lago and has 20 Roaring 20s style
parties. That person doesn't understand what
Americans are going through, and we see it because we're
paying for the increase in prices. So, you know,
November, people can see a change. They can change out
some of the faces in the House and the Senate, and
then we can finally have the ability to stand up and
do proper oversight. But right now, you know, it's
tough times. And we get the calls in the office and
people are certainly nervous.
>> How do you think the war in Iran informs voters
coming into the midterms? >> Well, I think it just
shows another bad decision, right? The tariffs are a
bad decision. We know that. And we're all paying more
for groceries and everyday goods. That big, ugly law
where they gave a giant tax break to Elon Musk and
people who belong to Mar a Lago that took away health
care from people and more in November. By the way,
all the Medicaid cuts take place at that point. So 15
million people lose health care and we're all paying
more for it. Plus, it made utility rates go up, and
now we're paying more for gas because of the war. So
you look at all of this, and I think people are just
kind of exhausted from the winning that Donald Trump
keeps telling us. I think, you know, most of us have a
different definition of winning. It's being able to,
you know, have that little luxury of a snowmobile or a
boat or whatever it might be. But it's not just
paying more for goods so that rich people get tax
breaks. what's your reaction to
Liberal Supreme Court point victory this week?
>> Well, she was an extraordinarily good
candidate. I think they fielded an extraordinarily
poor candidate by Supreme Court standards. But people
also are very frustrated with what's happening
nationally. And I think you saw that translate. I mean,
you saw mayors flip from conservative to more
progressive across parts of the state that aren't
exactly blue, maybe not even purple, but people are
just frustrated with what's going on. So I think you
saw a lot of that. But you know, Chris Taylor is going
to be a great Supreme Court justice. She's very smart,
very savvy. I've worked with her since my time in
the state legislature. She's going to help that
court. We need that court to probably get a kick in
the butt, maybe to get a few more things done. And I
think she may just be that catalyst.
Congressman Mark Pocan, >> Sure. Thank you so much.
>> Wisconsin's spring election saw a blowout win
for Liberal Supreme Court candidate Chris Taylor,
defeating Conservative Maria Lazar by 20 points as
“Here& Now” senior political reporter Zac
Schultz tells us it was an early night.
>> The crowd at Chris Taylor's election night
party expected her to win the election for a seat on
the Wisconsin Supreme Court, but that confidence didn't
diminish the excitement for when the race was
officially called before 9:00. Since Liberals
flipped the court in 2023, they've paraded their
majority on stage on election night for a
celebratory moment. But with Chris Taylor's victory,
the Liberal majority is now 5 to 2. And with former
Justice Anne Walsh Bradley on hand, the stage wasn't
big enough, so they had to hold their group photo
afterwards. >> Wow.
>> Who? >> We did it Wisconsin.
>> Contrary to the last two record setting elections,
this one was quieter, with less outside interest
groups spending fewer ads and lower turnout. While
justice elect Chris Taylor held an 8 to 1 spending
advantage over her opponent, Maria Lazar. Taylor praised
her get out the vote effort for getting her supporters
to the polls. >> And I am so grateful for
the grassroots support that I needed to win this race.
This was a grassroots campaign about the people
of the state of Wisconsin. And tonight the people of
Wisconsin spoke. And what you said is clear we are
moving forward. >> I have spoken with Chris
Taylor and I have conceded, and that's okay.
>> At her event, Lazar was gracious in defeat, hugging
supporters and consoling those who thought she could
pull off the upset. But the parties weren't even over
before thoughts turned to the Wisconsin Supreme Court
election next April, incumbent Conservative
Justice Annette Ziegler has already announced she won't
run again, and with conservatives having lost
five out of six races, there's a real question of
what it will take for conservative candidates and
their Republican supporters to be competitive in the
spring. >> This race was run in a
way that we were always behind catching up. That's
not how races are going to go from now on. I want
people in this state to demand better from your
your candidates. >> On the Liberal side,
potential candidates for next spring need to decide
soon if they're running in order to start building up
the fundraising network that has been central to
their winning streak. Judge Pedro Colon was at Taylor's
party and has talked about running in the past.
>> As I said, every race is unique, so I have to
uniquely think about race for the Supreme Court. But
tonight is a great victory for the state of Wisconsin.
>> With their new five two majority, Liberals will
control the court until a 2030. Reporting from
Madison. I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& Now".
>> Now that the Supreme Court election is over,
attention shifts to the next election. Tom Tiffany,
the only prominent Republican running for
governor, responded to Tuesday's outsized win for
liberal justice elect Chris Taylor.
>> We got our butts kicked last night, right? There's
no doubt about it. And we should acknowledge that.
But the election that's coming up this fall in
November is a new election. And you guys know as well
as anyone, every election is unique. And I have built
a campaign money, manpower and messaging. We're going
to compete on all fronts. >> Before a challenger
takes on Tiffany in November. Seven Democrats
are running to win the nomination in the August
primary. The first two Marquette polls have shown
a wide open race, with 65% of all Democratic voters
saying they haven't made up their minds. Reporter Zac
Schultz has been on the campaign trail and tells us
how the Democrats are handling this crowded
primary. >> Sara Rodriguez
>> Pick a city across the state.
you doing? Good. Are you. >> In on any given weekend?
>> How are you? >> There's a good chance.
>> First off, I'm Missy Hughes.
>> You'll find one of the Democrats running for
governor, shaking hands and introducing themselves.
>> My name is Kelda Roys, and I'm running for
governor. launched their campaigns
last year, but the polling shows the race has just
started, with most candidates polling in the
low single digits. >> You know, we're about 5
to 6 months into this race and still have a long
runway ahead of us. >> The bottom line for the
statewide poll, very credible, is that almost
nobody has made up their mind about this, and it's a
wide open race. >> This is the first time
I've run for office, so I'm excited to learn what
Wisconsinites are really thinking about, what
they're concerned about with the future.
>> No poll before people have actually started
paying for communications is going to tell you
anything reliable about the electorate.
>> What I say to them is really look at who can win
in November, who has the most experience, who's been
able to win in difficult races.
>> Only Mandela Barnes and Francesca Hong are polling
above 10%. >> Poll numbers are poll
numbers doesn't change our program. We're showing up
all across Wisconsin. We're talking to people, and
there's a poll that came out two days before, showed
me with a lead with eight points above the next
person. So polls are polls are always scattered all
over the place. >> Hong in particular is
taking a different approach to the campaign. We met her
in La Crosse, where her event doubled as a benefit
for Driftless Mutual Aid, and she skipped the speech
and just helped the other volunteers.
>> We are organizing and community powered campaign,
so events like this, community actions with
support from mutual aid efforts. This is what I
hope more politicians will start doing.
>> With two thirds of all Democrats undecided. Each
voter the candidate convinces now has a chance
to influence an even larger audience.
>> I'm seeing a ton of engagement around the state
when I go to Brown County or Marinette, folks are
showing up for meetings. They want to understand
where the candidates are, who the candidates are.
>> That makes these small meet and greets that much
more important. >> Clearly, this is an
engaged electorate. People who want to make sure that
we are doing the right level of organizing to be
ready for this fall. >> I mean, you absolutely
have your political junkies who are who are tuning in
and asking a lot of questions. But we also know
there's a lot happening in the world.
election over. It's a four month sprint to the August
primary villain. >> Incredible. A few months
in, actually incredible response all across the
state, we've been traveling nonstop. The response has
been incredible. We see the momentum continue to grow.
We see support increase all across Wisconsin.
>> I'm feeling really good about the race. I'm feeling
really good about what my team is doing. We are going
all across the state, all 72 counties, talking to
everybody because I firmly believe you can't lead if
you don't listen. >> I feel great. I feel
like I'm getting a huge amount of momentum as I
travel across the state, and it's really a joy to
campaign when people are feeling like we're on the
cusp of something different in Wisconsin.
>> Reporting from Madison. I'm Zac Schultz for "Here&
Now". >> Governor Tony Evers
Thursday signed a bipartisan bill into law
that makes online sports betting legal in Wisconsin.
When those bets are made through servers located on
tribal lands, Evers said the new law means a broader
collection of tribal nations in Wisconsin could
reap the benefits of increased gaming revenues.
The measure saw opposition from major operators like
Draft Kings and FanDuel. The 11 tribes will now
negotiate new gaming compacts with the state to
develop a model for sports betting. In other news, the
UW Board of Regents fired President Jay Rothman this
week. >> To terminate the UW
system president. >> And he is not going
quietly. The board voted unanimously to remove
Rothman, who says he was blindsided by the decision
with no reasons given. In response, the state Senate
Committee on Universities and Technical Colleges took
public testimony from regents to speak to Rothman
termination. But the president of the region
said personnel rules require confidentiality and
they would detail their termination decision if
Rothman would waive that confidentiality.
exactly what he is doing. He is a sophisticated
professional who understands that personnel
matters are confidential. And yet President Rothman,
who understands all of this, has chosen to use that
constraint as a shield, making public statements.
He knows I cannot rebut and framing a narrative he
knows I cannot correct that is deliberately one sided.
That is not a search for truth. That is strategy.
>> For his part, Governor Tony Evers said, quote,
many see the ongoing threats to fire UW regents
as Republicans attempt to leverage and flex their
political power while they still have it. Governor
Evers making a comment there on political fortunes
going forward. What will those fortunes look like in
the midterm elections? We welcome our political
panelists, Republican Bill McCoshen and Democrat Scot
Ross. And hello. >> How are you?
>> Pretty good. So Bill Tom Tiffany said Republicans
got their butts kicked Tuesday night. How, in your
view did that happen? >> Well, he's right about
that. If you're going to win statewide, you need
three things. You need money, organization and
message. Mom, we had no money. We didn't look like
we had any organization. And I'm not sure what the
message was. So I think we failed on all three of
those points. And ultimately, it wasn't the
worst Supreme Court election in state history,
but it was pretty close. And you know, when when
Maria Lazar is losing her home county of Waukesha by
43,600, she got 43,600 fewer votes than Brad
Schimel did in her own county. That's a rough
night. >> Scott wasn't about the
money advantage for Chris Taylor.
advantages before where I mean, I've been part of
ones where the Republicans had all the money and the
Liberal candidate didn't have any. And we've never I
haven't you know, the most I saw was like I think
seven points back in 2013. But the fact is, is that
this is a combination of a couple things. First and
foremost, that the The Donald Trump Republican
Party has taken us to war. It's taken us into the
poorhouse, and it keeps doubling down. And I would
point out that, you know, in the same interview where
Tom Tiffany said they got their butts kicked, he also
endorsed Trump's, you know, announced intention to
commit war crimes and every economic policy that he has
pushed forward, including trying to overturn the
results of the 2020 election. Considering this
race was about fairness, freedom and rights, there's
no wonder the Republicans lost.
factor is Trump in these elections?
was nationalized. I don't agree with Scott on that.
It may have had something to do with some people
staying home. I mean, the truth is they didn't know
Maria Lazar. She raised less than $1 million, which
is far less than Brad Schimel. I mean, a year ago,
we had the most expensive Supreme Court race in
history, $115 million. This one combined was around 10
million. So people didn't know who she was. So I'm
not I'm not sure that Trump was a huge factor in this
race. But the truth is, you know, congrats, first of
all to justice elect Chris Taylor. But she won seven
out of eight congressional districts, including Tom
Tiffany's. >> And they went up 7171 of
the 72 counties had a higher performance than in
2025. >> So how does this travel
into November? >> Well, I think I think
that the trend is irreversible in terms of
the Republican performance would just I mean, again, I
just have to disagree because if you look at past
elections, you know, like for instance, in 2016 where
Rebecca Bradley, I mean, she lost, she won by 94,500
votes, you know, when there were 97,000 more
Republicans who voted in the presidential primary
that year, that's not even close to 20%. It's not even
close to double digits in terms of the difference
between the two. You know, Republicans have in the in
the Trump era, lost races where tons of money, the
most money ever spent, they've lost when not a lot
of money spent. They've lost by double digits. Each
time that we've had these things, it's just again,
it's the brand is broken. They are doubling down. The
cult will continue. Tom Tiffany, Derrick, Van Orden
and whoever. Republicans can finally try and get to
be leader of the Senate and Assembly or Republicans,
you know, come November, you know, it's just a
disaster. But again, Democrats have to do the
work in order to get there. >> Not a great correlation
between spring elections and fall elections in the
state of Wisconsin. If you look at 2023, Janet
Protasiewicz won a Supreme Court seat by ten points.
2024 Donald Trump wins Wisconsin with the most
votes of any statewide candidate in history. So
it's it's not a perfect correlation, but I would
say it's a warning sign for Republicans, and they ought
to take it that way. >> So, Bill, what about the
war in Iran and its repercussions at home?
>> I think it's having an impact in this respect. Gas
prices are up whether it's a buck, buck 50 and people
feel that. So the fundamental question that
every voter has to answer when they go into the
voting booth is, what's in it for me if I vote for X
or Y? And right now, that's not great for Republicans,
for Republicans to have a shot this fall, gas needs
to be at or below three bucks a gallon. And if it's
not, it's going to be a tough cycle.
>> Yeah, 33% gas prices have gone up since Trump's
war of choice in Iran. >> So if if that somehow
gets resolved and those gas prices come down and
inflation comes down, is it does it kind of revert to a
regular cycle then. >> Because people are still
losing their health care, they're still seeing ICE,
you know, the Gestapo in our streets, you know,
killing Americans who do nothing more than protest.
Like those things aren't going to stop. And the cult
of Trump within the Republican Party of elected
officials, specifically Derrick Van Orton and Tom
Tiffany, who both, as Bill correctly pointed out, lost
the congressional district. I mean, Derrick Van Orton
lost his district or Chris Taylor 1 Derrick Van
Norton's district by 22 points. Eau Claire and La
Crosse were nearly 40%. It could.
>> It could revert to a normal cycle before the war
broke out in the Middle East. The generic ballot
was a couple points favorable towards Democrats.
That's something that Republicans can and compete
in and win in. Now it's 5 or 6, and in some polls
it's eight points. That's a much tougher environment
for Republicans. >> So, Scott, what about
for Democrats in their splintered primary for
governor with so many candidates?
there's more coverage of what Democrats are talking
about because they're not attacking each other, not
going after each other. It's the same thing from
2018. I mean, there were hardly any even contrast
levels in the 2018 primary for for Democrats. And what
ended up happening, Tony Evers upset Scott Walker,
who was trying to win a third term. And didn't you
know, I think that on top of, you know, not just that
ballot, but talking I'm sorry to your question, not
just talking about the Democrats in the in the in
the primary, but what that's going to do for the
down ballot, the state Senate and state Assembly.
I mean, we saw things like, you know, some of the
targets, the best targets the Republicans have in the
state Senate, Jeff Smith, Chris Taylor won his
district by 30 points. Like, you know, that's all I mean,
there's even new there's new meat on the table as
results of of Tuesday night. >> Not surprising but a
different take. There's 123 days until the primary. If
they do not define one another Francesca Hong will
be the Democratic nominee. >> What's the money race
going to look like? >> It's going to be very
different this fall. Maria Lazar got no outside help,
including from allied groups like the Federalist
Society and WMC, who have always spent seven figures
in Supreme Court races. This fall, the money will
be there for Tom Tiffany. >> And what about the money
on the Democratic side? >> Golly yes, I think that
the money is going to be there for Democrats because
they have been an incredible fundraising
you know, since Wikler. Thankfully.
>> He's Wikler gone. >> So but Devin's doing a
good job of raising the money too. You know, again,
Democrats need to do what in order to win these races?
It's not about outraising the Republicans. It's about
a consistent, relentless assault on what Republicans
stand for and how they are hurting the people of
Wisconsin. >> 207 days to go. It's
time to get the war over and get back to domestic
affairs. Ross, thanks very much.
Thank you. For more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org and then click on the news tab. That's our
program for tonight. I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend. [MUSIC]
>> Funding for Here and now is provided by the fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.