PBS Wisconsin Original production.
>> Candidates to be the next Supreme Court Justice
make their final case to the voters. And with an
election just days away. >> That's a big deal.
>> An executive order raises questions and
lawsuits. I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here& Now", the chair of the Wisconsin
Elections Commission answers questions about the
executive order from President Trump. We break
down highlights from the debate between the Supreme
Court candidates. Plus how they're convincing voters
to turn out on Tuesday. And with a crisis of care for
children and seniors, one model is bringing them all
together. It's "Here& Now" for April 3rd.
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> Just as Wisconsin is heading to the polls next
Tuesday, calls from Washington to nationalize
elections. The executive order President Trump
signed this week would create a national list of
U.S. citizens eligible to vote and restrict mail in
ballots. This order is not in effect for our April 7th
election, and Democrats have filed a lawsuit over
it. But does it perpetuate mistrust in the voting
process? We turn to the chair of the Wisconsin
Elections Commission. And Jacobs, thanks very much
for being here. >> Happy to be here.
>> So what is your reaction to President Trump's
executive order? >> I think it was at best
unfortunate and at worst unconstitutional. The
administration of elections is delegated by the U.S.
Constitution to the states, and Congress can make laws
regulating elections. And an executive order is
neither of those things. >> And so it's your belief
that this would not be in effect for the November
elections or, in effect, ever.
>> My suspicion is never in effect, ever. It's sort of
a back door way to create time limits and new
administrative hurdles for voters to go through. Under
the auspices of addressing essentially what our
conspiracy theories about absentee balloting.
>> So if it were to go into effect, what would the
ramifications be? In Wisconsin?
>> So in Wisconsin, by way of example, you can request
an absentee ballot five days before an election and
you are eligible to vote. If you've been a resident
of Wisconsin for 28 days. So a new resident of
Wisconsin could come and ask for a ballot and have
the right to vote under the executive order. However,
that name and that address had to have been submitted
to the US government prior to 60 days before the
election. So you create conflicts between the
statutory rights under state law with this mailing
deadline, and now the government's going to
control whether they will even mail your ballot. And
how do you undo that? What is the remedy if the
government says, oh, you weren't on the list, so I'm
not going to mail your ballot? Ha ha. And the
reason they're not mailing it is maybe because there's
a typo in a list somewhere, or you moved or what have
you. So it's really just sort of creating an
unnecessary and unworkable mess.
>> In, in your mind. Is it more possible with mail in
ballots to experience voter fraud?
>> No, the short answer is no. There's a number of
checks and balances involved in addressing mail
in ballots. First of all, you got to be registered.
Being registered in Wisconsin requires a
driver's license or the last four digits of your
Social Security number. If you don't have a license or
ID, it has to go to your registered voter address.
If you're sending it somewhere else, we send a
postcard to your registered voter address saying, hey,
did you order this ballot to go somewhere else? It
requires a witness with an address to sign your
absentee ballot envelope that affirms that they know
you and they saw you complete this ballot. And
then when it comes in to the elections, municipal
clerks across the state, they check it off, check it
in, and that ballot then is tallied. There's just a lot
of checks and balances along the way.
>> This executive order also seems to be trying to
get at the issue of only U.S. citizens voting,
because that is considered in in some corners, you
know, rampant with with fraud. What is your
knowledge of whether that is happening here in
Wisconsin? Non-Citizens voting?
>> We actually have some numbers on that. There are
four documented cases of non-citizen voting since
2016. During that time, 25 million ballots have been
issued in the state of Wisconsin. And if you want
to do the math, it's like 0.000000 something
something. Of all ballots cast, this is quite simply
not a an issue and not a problem. Non-Citizens,
generally speaking, don't want to get in trouble with
the US federal government, and that's why we haven't
seen really hardly any numbers of non-citizen
voting. And even those cases where non-citizens
have voted many times, it's because they receive some
sort of legal status that they incorrectly believed
entitled them to vote. >> Is this executive order
separate, though, from the US? DOJ suing Wisconsin to
turn over redacted voter registration data?
>> Let me clarify. They're not asking for redacted
voter data. They're looking for unredacted voter data.
They're looking for your complete name, date of
birth, driver's license number and Social Security
number. That information under Wisconsin law is
protected. We don't give that out. And that's a
state law that prohibits that. And I think we've
also seen recent disclosures of I believe it
was a DOGE employee who loaded the entire some sort
of entire Social Security database onto a thumb drive
and took it elsewhere. Wisconsinites want their
private information protected. They don't want
it going out to be shared by the government with
random anti-voting entities so they can, quote,
investigate non-citizen voting.
>> All right. Ann Jacobs, thanks very much.
>> Thank you. >> President Trump's
executive order for citizen voting lists and preventing
the Postal Service from mailing any ballots to
people not on those lists, was among the topics on
this week's Inside Wisconsin Politics. The WP
and PBS Wisconsin podcast, where you can hear the
state's most experienced political reporters break
down the news. It features PBS Wisconsin's Zac Schultz,
WP Shawn Johnson Anya van Wagtendonk and Rich Kremer.
Here they are on the Trump executive order.
>> So I think what a lot of people would be rightfully
wondering is, is this going to happen? Is this
something that is likely to happen in Wisconsin
specifically? look at when these kind of
things come out of Trump White House specifically,
is what is the reaction for politicians in Wisconsin?
We saw universally all the Democrats, including
Governor Evers, use a profanity online to
describe his reaction to this. And we didn't see
anything from Republicans. And if this had a prayer or
a chance of actually being legal or valid in Wisconsin,
there would have been some of the usual Trump
supporting Republicans that would have come out and
said, yes, thank you, President Trump. It's about
time. I didn't see any of that. Maybe somewhere it
was put out and I missed it. But the overall reaction
was a lot of crickets from Republicans. That signals
most election observers not legal in Wisconsin.
Unenforceable in Wisconsin would remove the right to
vote for absentee ballots. We have. You can register
on day of. There's just so many things that do not
apply to how Wisconsin elections are run. Barring
the fact that it's not even legal constitutionally
across the rest of the country, according to every
election expert that we ever talked to. I mean,
Shawn, you've covered this just as long. It's not
possible for the federal government to dictate how
elections are run. That's done by the states.
>> A heated Wisconsin Supreme Court debate
Thursday night between the two candidates running to
be placed on the high court. It featured appeals court
judges Maria Lazar, the conservative, and Chris
Taylor, the Liberal candidate. They squared off
just days before next Tuesday's election. For
reaction to the debate, we're joined by U.A.W. La
Crosse, political science professor Anthony Chergosky.
And thanks very much for being here. Thank you. So
does a debate performance sway people to vote in this
election one way or the other?
>> I think we're a little late in the ball game for
that. After all, a number of people have voted by
mail. They have voted early. And even if they are
planning to vote on Election Day, they may well
have already made up their mind. Still, I think
debates are symbolically important as a ritual in
democracy. I think it matters for candidates to
show up face to face in an unscripted environment and
have to defend their positions. Sometimes
debates can sway voters, sometimes not. But either
way, I think debates matter. >> That said, what do you
think the candidate's performance in this debate?
>> Well, this was a heated debate. I thought that the
candidates really sought to draw contrasts between
themselves and their opponent, and whether it
was on abortion or the issue of voting, or just
the general topic of judicial activism and
judicial philosophy, and the way that someone's
personal views may or may not end up influencing
their opinions. This was a heated debate, with plenty
of contrasts expressed between the two sides.
>> Speaking of judicial philosophy, let's take a
listen to one of the exchanges about that last
night. >> I do not intend to
follow any mandate or agenda or to legislate from
the bench. I am going to actually look what is there.
When people come in front of my court, they they know
two things. One, I always treat them with respect.
And number two, they always have a fair and full
opportunity to be heard. And I decide the case only
on the law and the facts. Judge Lazar is the only
person in this race who has brought an extreme right
wing political agenda to the bench. She has refused
to follow precedent. She ruled to release personal
private voting information to a right wing group that
tried to overturn our election. Thank goodness
she was reversed by the state Supreme Court. She
has been reversed repeatedly because she
refuses to follow the law. >> So in recent cycles, the
partizan veil has really been lifted in these races.
How do election experts like yourself regard that
as good or bad? >> We're in a really
strange era in these state Supreme Court elections
because it's this weird, murky middle ground right
now where the parties are deeply involved. The
justices often accept the support of the political
parties, but they also want to be clear that they will
have some sense of independence.
>> So in the next back and forth that we're going to
listen to, the candidates were answering to how they
would have voted when, last summer, the Liberal
majority invalidated the state's 1849 abortion ban.
Chris Taylor said she would have voted with that
Liberal majority to invalidate the ban. Maria
Lazar would not say how she would have voted.
>> There is no one more extreme ever to have been
to be a candidate on issues of reproductive health care
than my opponent. She called the overturning of
Roe versus Wade very wise, and you can look it up on
television. She said it right on television. She
said she was likely to vote to support. I'm going to
respond. I did not say I was likely to vote. I did
not respond ever, in that regard. And what I said
about Dobbs, which is the decision that overturned
Roe versus Wade, is I said it was good that it brought
that national ban and put it back into each
individual state. >> So, as we've said, the
abortion portion of the debate was really extremely
heated. But how would abortion come before the
court again? >> Well, Maria Lazar
mentioned that after the Supreme Court overturned
Roe versus Wade, it significantly empowered
states to make a lot of judgments about abortion
that they previously would not have been able to make.
When Roe versus Wade was the law of the land. So we
might see a future state legislature here in
Wisconsin, a future state legislative majority or a
future governor try to take certain actions on the
issue of abortion. And in that case, the Supreme
Court could very well enter the picture in reviewing
actions that the other branches take on abortion.
>> What are other important cases that will come before
the court in the next year or so, and how does the
balance of the court inform how these are going to be
decided? >> We may continue to have
divided government in Wisconsin, divided control
of the executive and legislative branch, pending
the outcome of the November midterm elections. And when
you have divided party control of the legislative
and executive branch, the courts can really enter the
picture as power players in sorting out disputes and
sorting out gridlock between those branches.
Plus the 2020 presidential election, we know that
Wisconsin is often at the center of legal battles
surrounding election. And then if we go out even
further, think redistricting come 2030,
the census, and then the redrawing of the maps
shortly thereafter. >> Great. Well, Anthony
Chergosky, thanks very much. >> Thank you.
>> We're now just four days away from the spring
election with justice for Wisconsin Supreme Court on
the ballot. Liberal candidate Chris Taylor has
held a commanding fundraising lead over the
conservative candidate, Maria Lazar, with most of
that money being poured into ads on TV and online.
Now, while this election has held a lower profile
than the last two Supreme Court elections, as "Here&
Now", senior political reporter Zac Schultz tells
us on Tuesday, this race will likely come down to
the get out the vote efforts of each campaign.
>> It's a Saturday morning in March, and a crowd of
volunteers is busy filling out postcards at the GOP
headquarters in Appleton. >> Address and then sign
your name. Right. A little something about Lazar or
vote on April 7th. We really got to get out the
votes. voters to support Maria
Lazar in the Supreme Court election. Pam Van Handel is
the chair of the Republican Party of Outagamie County.
She says handwritten postcards have a personal
touch and are more likely to be read than a glossy
campaign flier. >> So what we're doing is
we're looking for people that are more likely to go
out and vote in these smaller elections, because
it is tough to get people out to vote. So that's our
goal here. So we get a list from the Republican Party
of Wisconsin, and we tell them, give us the ones that
are really going to go out and vote because we really
need them. April 7th.
Colin Roberts, a member of the Milwaukee County Dems,
is knocking doors for Chris Taylor.
>> Oh, okay. Could I ask who you plan on voting for?
>> The Democratic okay. >> Yeah, yeah. So yeah.
Chris Taylor. >> Technically Supreme
Court elections are nonpartizan and candidates
use labels like conservative or liberal
instead of Republican or Democrat. But in reality,
the Democratic and Republican parties of
Wisconsin each donate millions of dollars and
coordinate thousands of volunteers in the get out
the vote effort. >> I just think going
everywhere is the key and talking to people.
>> Hello, ma'am, I'm Chris Taylor, so nice to meet you.
So nice to meet you, Cornelius. Oh, you have my
vote. Oh. >> Thank you. The Liberal
candidate has won four out of the last five Supreme
Court elections, flipping a court that in 2019 had A52
conservative majority. If Taylor wins, Liberals will
hold A52 majority. >> How many of. You are
fired up to protect our democracy? All right.
>> We are looking at a court that is now 4 to 3.
When I win, it will stay 4 to 3. We're not changing
its composition, but the three votes are so very
important. >> Republicans around the
state have expressed worry the backlash to Donald
Trump's presidency and political realignment have
led to this losing streak. >> I don't know if it's
impacted morale. What I will say is this I think
that the state of Wisconsin is looking at these races
and they're asking who's running and why people are
running and for what reason. And when I look at this
race, the reason I am running is because I want
to be someone on that court who represents the law for
the state of Wisconsin. >> Taylor wants to make
sure her supporters don't get complacent with the
winning streak. >> There's four more state
Supreme Court elections coming up after mine. No
one should take anything for granted. This court can
change very quickly, but if I am able to get elected,
there will be a pro-democracy majority on
the court until at least 2030.
>> In their wins. Rebecca Dallet, Jill Karofsky,
Janet Protasiewicz and Susan Crawford each
received 55% of the vote. The 1 conservative victory
in this streak was in 2019, when Bryan Hagedorn won by
less than 6000 votes, half a percent. That was a low
turnout election, with a million fewer voters than
last year. Hagedorn was outspent and written off by
most election observers who expected to see him lose
easily. It's no surprise Lazar hopes this election
ends up following the same pattern.
>> Well, secretly, yes. So the parallels are there. I
think that through my entire career, people have
underestimated me. It's sort of been a theme that
they don't think someone a little shorter, a little,
little softer spoken can be as strong as steel. And I
am. And in this race, I think that's important too.
People think that, you know, it's written off, it's a
done deal and it's not. >> Taylor is aware of the
Hagedorn comparisons. >> I won't rest until April
8th, the day after this election. I take nothing
for granted. This is going to be a hard, competitive
race. I will need every vote that I can get. I need
all the help that I can get from the people.
>> The state of. >> Wisconsin this weekend
will feature the final push for get out the vote
efforts. >> I really feel like the
people now are really getting involved at this
level, and we're getting more signs out. We're
getting we're just really getting the grassroots
going on. >> With volunteers knocking
on doors and reminding their supporters to vote on
Tuesday. location?
>> Yeah. The pavilion, I can see it.
>> Reporting from Appleton. I'm Zac Schultz for here
and. >> Now in the ongoing
struggle for more care programs for older adults
as well as young children, some communities in
Wisconsin are turning to an approach that combines the
two different age groups into the same programs. As
Steven Potter reports, the result has benefits for
both old and young, and the idea is gaining traction.
>> Hi, how are you today, Owen? Remember me? Yes you
are. >> Like elsewhere in the
country, Wisconsin is facing a crisis of care on
two fronts. First, the need for child care continues to
outpace availability. Providers say families of
30,000 children across the state can't find childcare.
This problem is particularly bad outside of
larger cities, around 70% of rural Wisconsin is
classified as a child care desert.
>> Textbook of a broken market. It's just not
working. >> There's also a
significant need for more care and more social
connection for older adults. >> Social isolation can
increase someone's risk for dementia, for heart disease,
diabetes, depression. >> Already under strain,
the elder care industry in Wisconsin is bracing for
increased demand as the number of residents 75
years old or older is expected to grow by more
than 40% by the end of the decade.
>> You need some help? >> Yeah.
>> Given that both the child care and elder care
industries in Wisconsin are facing similar struggles,
largely based on employee shortages, several
communities are bridging those gaps with something
called intergenerational care.
>> Intergenerational care. generations coming together
under one roof. You know, sometimes it might be in a
more health care based setting where there's a
nursing home and there's younger generations, like a
preschool in the same facility, or it can kind of
be a little bit less formal and be in community centers.
>> Or Suzanne Morley of the Wisconsin Institute for
Healthy Aging says intergenerational care
programs and facilities are increasing around the state.
>> In the past five six years, maybe even more and
longer. There's been a lot of interest in
intergenerational programing. There's a lot
of research out there that's been coming out
about the benefits of intergenerational
programing and the benefits not only for older adults,
but also for younger generations.
>> Intergenerational care activities vary from place
to place. One program may have older adults visiting
young children for reading time, and another program
may have high school students helping seniors
with technology. All of these programs bring these
groups together for social connection, play, and
learning. >> I think there's a lot of
momentum and excitement around intergenerational
programs. >> Paula Drew of the
Wisconsin Early Childhood Association has also
noticed an uptick in interest in
intergenerational care, and for good reason.
>> Yeah. >> I think both our
youngest and our oldest tend to sort of live in the
moment more than us, sort of in the middle. Our
seniors have a lot to give in terms of their skills,
and they can put those skills to to use with young
children who really are starving for that one on
one attention. And that does so much for their
brain development. >> And the older set also
sees a boost. >> For older adults.
There's lots of health benefits. There's research
that shows that can improve cognition. So helping with
things like staving off dementia and cognitive
impairment, it can also increase their
self-confidence and their self-efficacy if they're
interacting with younger generations, it can improve
health outcomes. It can actually lower blood
pressure. >> There are several
programs across Wisconsin already, and new ones are
on the way. >> I think this effort is
really just an extension of what we already know works,
and we already know has all these benefits.
>> In Walworth County. Maddie Sweetman is with the
Groundswell Collective, a grassroots organization
pushing for combined daycare and older adult
facility in an empty wing of a county run nursing
home. >> We all sort of know what
it feels like to have that isolation and be sort of
stuck where we are, and I think rural communities can
suffer extra from that. And so intergenerational care
like this would bridge some of those gaps.
>> The small rural community of Plymouth in
Sheboygan County has seen these benefits for more
than a decade. >> It's really about
bringing people together and creating connections
between people. >> Meghann Weeden runs
generations, a nonprofit community center. They're
geared towards seniors that partners with a daycare
center on site. >> Creating a community
inside the community where people can get support and
feel valued and seen and heard. It gives people a
reason to get out of bed in the morning.
>> And then you are going to make a Stein.
>> Doreen Salkowski is a retired teacher who now
volunteers at Generations Community Center.
>> I love it, I'm. I feel like I'm back in the
classroom again. Everybody benefits. The community
benefits. They're able to see the young people as
they're growing, interacting more with the
older people, respecting them more.
>> Isolation and loneliness is a nationwide, worldwide
issue. So by creating more intergenerational locations,
we're breaking down those barriers and just helping
everybody find those connections.
>> Reporting from Plymouth. >> Oh, I like that one.
>> I'm Steven Potter for "Here& Now".
>> For more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin
Dot and then click on the news tab. That's our
program for tonight. I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend. >> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the fund for Journalism and Friends of
PBS Wisconsin.