The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original
production. >> A full house of primary
candidates for governor adds another with the entry
of former Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes. As
candidates on both sides prepare for an August
runoff, even as the snow still flies.
[MUSIC] I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here& Now", we begin our series of
interviews with Wisconsin primary candidates for
governor. Tonight, the Republicans, an elections
expert, unpacks the legal challenges to Wisconsin
congressional maps and the shocking history of racial
housing covenants in Wisconsin.
[MUSIC] It's "Here& Now" for
December 5th. [MUSIC]
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> It takes two hands to count the number of
candidates running for Wisconsin governor in 2026.
Tonight, we begin a series of interviews with them,
conducted by senior political reporter Zac
Schultz, which you'll see on this program over the
next three weeks. First up, Republicans in the race. We
start with a candidate with solid name recognition.
Wisconsin's seventh congressional U.S.
representative, Tom Tiffany. >> Tom, Tiffany, thanks for
joining us. For voters who don't know who you are,
introduce yourself and give us a sense of why you're
running for governor. >> Yeah. Lifelong resident
of Wisconsin. I grew up on a dairy farm in western
Wisconsin with my seven brothers and sisters. We
were up early in the morning milking cows,
I worked my way through UW River falls, got an
agricultural degree, and then ultimately settled in
the Northwoods where I met my wife, Chris, and that's
where we raised our three daughters.
that would say defines you, or maybe a a lane within
your political party that may drive you?
>> You know, I think one thing that maybe a lot of
people don't realize, the reason I ran for the state
Assembly back in 2010, when I first gained elected
office, was because of fiscal responsibility. We
had a $3 billion deficit at that point, and that's
always animated me. That government should spend
within its means. >> How much money are you
going to need to raise in this primary and for the
general election? budgeting to raise $40
million. We'll see if we get there. But, you know,
Wisconsin, because of that pass through loophole, I
call it the billionaire loophole. There's just so
much money that comes into Wisconsin. But, you know,
you can cry about it or you can compete. We choose to
compete. And but we're we're hoping to raise $40
million. competitive primary. How do
you personally define the difference between negative
campaigning versus defining the differences or issues
between you and an opponent? >> You know, if you're just
hurling mud at your opponent, name calling,
stuff like that, then I don't I don't think that's
how Wisconsin voters talking about issues. And
some people describe negative campaigning as
being that if you point out differences, I think that's
the important part of the political process, is to
point out the differences between you and your
opponent. And so that's what I always try to do.
>> As voters are tuning in. Should they be more drawn
to a candidate that has the issues that align with them,
or should they be thinking about electability as well?
>> For the primary, electability is a is a big
part of it, I think. I think it's a combination of
issues and electability. Because if you're right on
the issues, you're going to gain some voters. And
that's ultimately what it's all about, is getting 50,
50% plus one. >> Obviously, you represent
northern Wisconsin. What's your what's your goal?
What's your plan to reach the rest of the state and
introduce yourself there? >> Well, we have a 72
county strategy. Sometimes Republicans have not done
that, including ignoring now in Dane County. We will
not ignore Dane County, the fastest growing county in
the state. And but we have a 72 county strategy, and
we're going to cover every bit of it.
you think Donald Trump will have on this election?
>> You know, there will be some, certainly. But I know
one thing that Democrat, whoever the Democrat
candidate is, they will try to make it about Donald
Trump. And part of the reason for that, I think,
is that they don't have a strong set of issues that
have been animating them that the voters want to
hear. I mean, when you see some of the stuff like
defund the police or, you know, boys and girls sports,
stuff like that, most of the voters in Wisconsin are
like, yeah, we're not buying that stuff. And so I
think that's part of the reason why they try to make
President Trump the central part of the campaign,
rather than debating the issues. I can assure the
voters that I will be debating the issues.
>> Tom, Tiffany, thank you so much for coming in.
>> It's great to join you, Zach.
>> Up next is the other Republican in the primary
race for governor, who was first to throw his hat into
the ring back in May. Washington County Executive
Josh Schoemann. >> Josh Schoemann, thanks
for joining us. >> Yeah, thanks for having
me. Good to be here. >> So for voters who don't
know you, give us the quick story. Who are you and why
are you running for governor?
is I'm a Christian. First, I'm the son of a minister.
My my dad's ministry was in mostly northeastern
was a registered nurse. My wife and I have been
married almost 25 years. Both Wisconsin kids were
raised our family and mostly in Washington County,
and we now have an 80 acre farm in between West Bend
and Grafton. Love, Wisconsin through and
through. Aside from a tour of duty in Iraq in 2003,
and I always joke a tour of duty in the Chicagoland
suburbs while I was getting my master's degree at
Wisconsin kid and been back working in public service
my whole life. Dedicated it to the service and
sacrifice of the guys and gals who didn't make it
back, and reflecting the Lord's love by loving my
neighbor as myself in public service the last 12
years in Washington County. >> So is there a single
issue that would define you, or maybe a lane within the
Republican Party that helps define you?
driven being very people focused and and mostly
interested in solving problems. That's why I got
into public service. I actually started in public
administration because I little too volatile and too
theoretical. Public administration is really
where the rubber hits the road, and you're dealing
with people where they're at. My first job back in
Wisconsin was deputy clerk treasurer in Princeton,
Green Lake County, and I ended up taking on
responsibilities in public works, literally shoveling
out lift stations. So, you know, I think those are
important things, making sure when you flush the
toilet, it does what it's supposed to do and the
garbage is collected on time. And to this day,
that's who I am as Washington County Executive
and who I will be as governor.
think you're going to need to raise to win this
primary? And then what happens after that in a
general election? >> Yeah, I mean, it's it's
embarrassing the fact that this is probably a quarter
billion dollar race all in for for both sides and all
the outside spending and just the candidate alone.
I'm told about basement floor, 20 million, first
floor probably closer to 40 million. So it's it's a
serious endeavor and one that we're excited about.
>> When it comes to a competitive primary. Where
do you personally draw the line between negative
campaigning versus just defining the differences
between yourself and an opponent?
gets personal, that's really the the dividing
line. There's certainly differences in on our side
of the aisle. There's only two of us in this race
right now. And there's certainly differences
between policy approach. I think those are important
to point out. And I think that's the essence of the
primary process. But once it becomes personal attacks,
I mean, I think that's where we've seen primaries
in the past go awry. And I have no intention of going
down that, that lane. And I hope the door swings both
ways. aware of the candidates,
should they be looking at which candidate has the
closest issues to them or general electability?
>> Well, I think it's both. I mean, first and foremost,
I think this has got to be about the people and local
communities a little bit more about Washington
less about Washington, D.C. but then I also think
there's there's something to be said about the types
of attributes it's going to take to win a general
election. Generals are, of course, much different than
Republican side in particular, we've spent a
little bit too much time focusing on who can win a
primary purity tests of of sorts, and we need to spend
more time thinking about what can win in the general
election. I think when you when you put my resume next
to anybody, I think the answer is clear. If we want
to be in the governor's mansion in January of 2027,
I think not only me, but my profile and our campaign is
the type that wins. >> This is an interesting
contrast because we have the northern Wisconsin,
which is kind of the the new prime territory in
Wisconsin for Republicans versus the old guard, the
wow counties, which obviously represent. So how
do you view that that matchup.
that's one of the main contrasts north versus
certainly a generational difference. But I also
think it's, you know, local and and personal versus
kind of state and DC Madison in Washington DC, I
think those are basically the dividing lines. And I
think it's a good contrast for people to really
wrestle with what's best for us to choose in August,
to put up in November for the best shot, to have the
governor's mansion in January.
>> How do you think Donald Trump will impact this race?
>> Oh, huge. I mean, you know, it's the president's
party. And that's been clear for the last ten
years. But I think one thing to keep in mind is
President Trump came on the scene in 2015 after the
2010 Tea Party wave. Republicans basically ran
on three major points, reduced the debt, eliminate
deficits, and repeal and replace Obamacare. Here we
are 15 years later, and we're still talking about
those three things. Sometimes President Trump
one pushing the needle on any of those by himself
that can't. That's unacceptable. And I think
it's why we continue to feel a churn in politics
across America. So he's he's got a humongous impact.
I certainly am going to work my tail off to earn
his support and endorsement and show him that he can
have the confidence in me that I've got this race.
Once we get past August and and we lead it to victory
in November. for your time.
>> Thanks for having me. >> Next week, Zach
continues his interviews with candidates running for
governor. Look for more of his reporting on air and
online in coming weeks. The battle lines are drawn once
again over voting district lines, this time Wisconsin
congressional districts. Republicans have blasted
the order, but the Wisconsin Supreme Court
assigned a pair of three judge panels to hear two
lawsuits that argue that the state's congressional
maps must be redrawn because they are
unconstitutionally favoring of Republicans. Six of the
state's eight districts are currently held by
Republicans. The court playing out in the midst of
a national redistricting battle, as President Donald
Trump is trying to preserve a slim Republican majority
in the House in the 2026 elections. Director of the
Elections Research Center and professor of political
science at UW-Madison, Barry Burden is here with
more. And thanks very much for being here.
>> Thanks for having me. >> So in your expert view,
do Wisconsin congressional maps unconstitutionally
favor Republicans? >> Well, they certainly
favor Republicans. Whether this constitutional or not
will be an issue for the courts. You know, there are
eight districts in the state. Six of them are held
by Republicans, two of the seats held by Democrats.
And it's been that way for a while. That's one of the
contentions, at least in one of the cases, is that
it's been a durable and predictable outcome, that
the drawing of those maps, which really began in 2011
under Scott Walker and Republicans continued
essentially with a least change version of that
after the 2020 census, that it has locked in A62
majority. So in that sense, it's certainly tilted
towards Republicans. >> So other than the six
two district margins, what stands out about these maps?
>> They're not competitive, at least for six of those
seats are unlikely to be held by anything but a
Republican or Democrat, sort of. Regardless of who
those people are and what the campaigns are like and
what the issues are like, we know well in advance the
second district, the eighth party is going to represent
those seats? Only two of the seats, the first and
the third, are anywhere near competitive. We have
Republican incumbents in both of those districts.
They lean Republican, so there's always a
there. But even those have been reliable for
Republican victories. >> Why was congressional
redistricting kind of left off the table when
Wisconsin redrew and then passed into law? New
legislative maps? >> We don't know exactly,
because the Supreme Court wasn't transparent about
that. There were lawsuits brought to the Supreme
Court focusing on the state legislative districts and
the congressional. They took up the state
legislative districts, and that eventually resulted in
new lines being drawn for the Assembly and state
Senate, the congressional maps they decided not to
touch and sent them back, really without any message
as to why they were not taking them up. It now, in
retrospect, seems to be something about the process,
because those same groups came forward essentially
with similar lawsuits, but now filed in Dane County
Court. That's following an old process from 2011. We
might talk about that maybe is where the court was
telling those litigants to go.
precedent is there for the Wisconsin Supreme Court to
order circuit judge panels to hear the cases
challenging these maps? >> Well, it hasn't been
done before, and that's because the law that
enabled it was passed in 2011, ironically, by Scott
Walker and Republicans, when they were unhappy that
Democrats seemed to be filing suit in Dane County
repeatedly, where they thought they would get a
favorable hearing from a judge there. This requires
that any case that has to do with the apportionment
or districting at the state level, has to result
in three judge panels being appointed by the Supreme
Court, and those judges can't all come from Dane
County. They've got to be scattered across circuits
what the court did last week in creating two of
these panels to deal with the two cases before them.
>> So in the redistricting battle, are those efforts
about the actual fairness of of maps or directed
toward partisan advantage? >> It's all partisanship, I
would say at this point. And that comes also from
the Supreme Court, which before this latest round of
districting back in 2018 2019, dealt with a case
that ended up with the court saying any level of
partisan shenanigans in drawing districts, at least
for Congress under federal law, is completely fine.
That's not a matter of law. It's not a matter of
constitution. So it's noteworthy that these two
cases in Wisconsin are under state law and state
constitutions going to the state supreme Court. So the
litigants have decided to steer clear of the federal
courts because there's no longer a remedy there, at
least when it's about partisanship.
decision just released by the US Supreme Court on
happens with redistricting going forward?
>> So Texas is where this all began. This is a really
strange era we're in that many states are redrawing
maps in the middle of the decade. We're sort of
halfway between the last census and the next census.
Texas began with maps that were drawn to favor
Republicans by adding about five seats there. That
would also take away about five seats from Democrats.
So a ten point swing. Those maps were declared illegal,
a violation of the Voting Rights Act. The US Supreme
Court yesterday decided to allow those maps to go
forward, partly because they thought the court, the
federal Court, intervened too close to the primary in
Texas, which comes up very quickly. Candidates are are
beginning to file already just next week to get in.
And they weren't convinced that it was going to be a
violation of the Voting Rights Act anyway. So it
looks like the new map in Texas is back on, and all
of the activity in the other states is also
happening. >> So does that kind of
create an arms race of changing maps across the
country? >> It does. So Texas was
first the the main response to that was in California,
where Democrats decided to override their commission.
That draws districts by having a ballot proposition.
They've now created new districts that add about
five Democratic seats. So essentially canceling out
what Republicans did in Texas. Now we've got
Missouri, Florida, Virginia, maybe Maryland, maybe
Illinois, Indiana, some other states, Utah. Because
of a court ruling there, there's a lot of redrawing.
And it's not clear in the end which party is going to
be advantaged, but it's the of this process we have
ever seen. >> In Wisconsin. Is there
any chance in your mind that new congressional maps
could be drawn before the midterms?
that timeline gets met. We're just now beginning to
have hearings and, you know, in some motions and filings
for those three judge panels that were appointed,
there's going to have to be evidence brought. The
judges are going to have to rule over those cases. If
they decide the be struck down, then new
districts need to be created by some process,
either the state governor, or the courts
appoint someone to do that process. It all needs to be
in place probably by the end of March, so that
candidates know where to file the filing deadlines
in June for a primary in August. So this was, you
know, a crunch when the were redrawn two years ago.
But the final maps were adopted around this time.
The rulings were just around Christmas time, and
the maps came shortly thereafter. Were behind
that schedule. It seems very difficult to get that
done in time. >> All right. Well, Barry
Burden, thanks so much. >> Thanks for having me.
>> In other news, to understand why Milwaukee
ranks as one of the most segregated big cities in
America, two Wisconsin based researchers have been
taking a close look at housing records and the
racially charged language in them. Here and now,
reporter Murv Seymour shows us how the Mapping, Racism
and Resistance project inches toward the finish
line. Despite the recent loss of federal funding,
some viewers might find the language in this story
disturbing. >> This project is
incredible. It's important. It is not historical. It is
alive. >> From a place known as
the hub for learning. >> And it needs to flourish
so that we can continue to push back against racism
and segregation. >> Something historic is
happening at Milwaukee's downtown public Library.
>> It's one thing to say, oh, there's systemic racism.
It's another thing when you see the language.
>> It's jarring. >> Whites only, Caucasians
only colored people. >> University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee professors Anne Bonds and
Derek Handley have been busy for nearly three years.
>> These covenants cover housing that is now
predominantly occupied by African Americans in
Milwaukee. >> The two have been
leading an effort that peels back the hateful
history of racial covenants in Milwaukee County, and
has helped shape Milwaukee along racial lines. Racial
covenants a clause written into property deeds that
forbid the sale, least or occupation of a property to
a person because of their race, ethnicity, or
religion. >> We have this deep
history of racial and I've been wanting to
know more about it, and I started digging into racial
covenants. students, you know, why do
you think there are Black communities in these
different cities that you go in? By seeing these maps,
you can get a better understanding to that
question. A lot of Milwaukee was part of or
the Black population were part of the Great Migration.
They came here with hope. There were certainly jobs
over a period of time. Black people knew what
places they were not supposed to be.
>> After searching nearly 5 million documents from 1910
to 1960, the Mapping Racism and Resistance Project
found. Get this 32,506 racial covenants blended
into the language of housing deeds throughout
Milwaukee County. certain kinds of language
words like whites only, Caucasians only. We knew
that terms like and colored and African and Ethiopian
would probably appear, because that's the language
that was being used at the time.
>> We've seen covenants that mention no Italians.
We've seen covenants that mentioned no Mexicans.
>> According to the research, not every racial
covenant explicitly said no Blacks or no colored person.
Some said white only or Caucasian only. And bond
says in practice, all of the covenants they found
targeted Black people. The one exception Blacks could
live in white only communities if they were
working there as a servant. >> Derrick and I could
never have identified all of these racial covenants
without the work with the community.
California, more than 6000 volunteers, many of whom
transcribe their findings. They used a site called
Zooniverse to discover and meticulously document
racial covenants and the language used in them. Mary
Roberts says she became a transcriber because of her
passion for history. >> You'd have one, two,
three, four, five items of things that you couldn't do
on a property, and then all of a sudden, there it was a
racial covenant. It's one thing to learn in your
history books about how segregation happened, or to
read about the Fair Housing Act and to read about the
civil rights marches. But it was really a whole
nother experience to be reading property deed after
property deed after property deed with these
racial covenants in it. >> Once found, each racial
covenant is verified and documented by five
different people, word for word, regardless of its
racially discriminatory tone.
>> One person was so offended by the language
that was used in the covenants that they didn't
want to transcribe that language.
>> Some of these are like a they're they're a sucker
punch. People find these, and the general reaction is,
whoa, like, I don't I don't want this. I don't want to
be associated with this. And and for many people of
color, they encounter these. It's very devastating to
think about living in a place that was constructed
through this kind of racial exclusion.
has always been known within the Black community.
And now we have the evidence to show people.
>> Racial covenants prevented access to the
best and most well resourced neighborhoods.
>> We learned the story of the Columbia Savings and
Loan. >> What did this bank near
North Avenue? The 16th Street Bridge on the south
side, a historic landmark to the north, and a 1950s
Wauwatosa home to the west, all have in common.
>> The founding of that institution was because of
racist housing covenants. >> They represent examples
of resistance in the Mapping, Racism and
Resistance project, located in the heart of what's
known as the Bronzeville community on fond du Lac
Avenue, this Columbia Savings and Loan bank
rescued Black families by offering mortgages at a
time when white owned banks wouldn't. More than 100
years later, from a new building, the bank remains
in business. Today, it's Wisconsin's only Black
owned bank. This historic landmark celebrates
Boniface and its fearless priest, Father James Groppi.
Groppi once led nonviolent civil rights marches for
200 straight days across the 16th Street Bridge,
which at the time was considered an imaginary
racial boundary between the predominantly Black north
side of Milwaukee and the then predominantly white
south side of town. And when you think of Wauwatosa,
Derek Handley says. >> Think about Zeddie Hyler
and his brothers sitting at night with shotguns.
>> Zeddie Hyler migrated from Mississippi to
worked at Milwaukee's downtown post office. In
1955, he became the first Black property owner in
Wauwatosa. just a very stark reminder
of what was going on during the day.
sharing a tiny piece of the story of his. Against all
odds journey to build his dream home in Wauwatosa.
>> He was very ambitious. I have photos of him, and
he's posing with an all white contingent of
privates, and he's the sergeant.
>> Mr. Hyler and his brothers was would sit out
there with shotguns in the evening to protect the
property from being from being vandalized. This is
Kern at the same time as the Montgomery Bus Boycott
in Alabama. >> Lora Hyler tells this
audience uncle Z was able to build his dream home in
Wauwatosa thanks to multicultural resistance.
The home is now considered an historic landmark.
>> There were 37 or 39 white women in the city of
Wauwatosa who were upset with the treatment that he
was receiving, showing up for the meetings, getting
denied, and they basically pulled together a petition,
which all of them signed. >> And he had his white
friend buy the property. And then after the white
friend bought the property, he then sold it to to Z.
>> And they said, given the Bill of rights, this man
has a right to live any place that he can afford to.
So we demand that his approval be granted.
>> Haley Anne Bonds say the history and impact of
racial covenants in Milwaukee is only part of
the story of segregation in Milwaukee. The site is
still being tweaked, but they encourage people to
interact with the Mapping, Racism and Resistance
website to learn about racial covenants in their
community. >> You can zoom into
neighborhoods, and you can look to see where the
racial covenants were and what the language was, the
year that they were implemented. We can get rid
of these in our records, but that doesn't mean that
they haven't already done the job that they were
meant to do. >> To help set the record
straight, while helping fix housing failures of the
past, Anne Bonds says Wisconsinites should pay
close attention to what's happening in Washington
state, which has done similar research.
>> There's a new state law that allowed people to, you
know, actually pay to have these records removed and
the funds that were raised through that removal
process that were then reinvested in a fund for
first time home buyers. >> There's a lot of
generational wealth that was that, that one whole
segment of our society was cut off from building. We
really have to to face that if we're going to try and
solve it. I'm Murv Seymour for here.
>> Now. For more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org and then click on the news tab. That's our
program for tonight I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend. >> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.