something that can be signed into law.
>> Your time. Thanks. I appreciate your time.
>> As the baby boomer generation continues to age,
the need for assisted living facilities in Wisconsin will
continue to grow, with one recent estimate saying we'll
need more than 60,000 additional beds over the
next 15 years. More and more seniors and their families
are using a referral agency to help them choose a
facility and a proposed bill at the Capitol would add
some transparency to explain who's actually paying for
those services. Joining us now is Mike Pochowski, CEO
of the Wisconsin Assisted Living Association, the
trade group that represents those facilities. And thanks
for your time today. >> Thank you for having me.
>> So let's start by explaining what is a
referral agency and how do they interact between
families and the facilities themselves.
>> Sure, there's essentially two types of referral
agencies. You have the local ones that are specifically
geared towards Wisconsin, and you also have the
national ones. And so they really work with the
families to try and find placement for those
individuals, but they contract with assisted
living facilities specifically, so they don't
give you a full picture of who you could potentially
move into, because they only give you referrals for those
facilities that they contract with.
>> So part of this bill talks about making it
obvious who pays, because the referral agencies claim
there was no fee for the families. They get paid on
the back end. But there's concerns that those fees are
passed along. >> Absolutely. So what
happens is they advertise themselves as being this
free service to individuals and to families. It's not a
free service. The fees are paid by the facilities that
they contract with. And so what happens, unfortunately,
is that because those fees are very high, they get
passed down to the consumer or to the residents that
live in those facilities. >> So the incentive for
referral agencies to send clients to more expensive
facilities, at least that's feel is happening for some
of these agencies, correct. >> For the most part, these
these referral agencies charge anywhere between 85%
to 100% of the residents first month rent and care.
And so what happens is that gives them the incentive to
move individuals into higher priced facilities, because
they can get a higher fee with that. The problem with
that, too, is that what happens is for these
individuals, they spend down their assets more quickly,
making them Medicaid eligible faster. And so we
already have a medicaid system that's already having
lots of problems. So it just enhances the problem with
our Medicaid program. >> So what would this bill
do? What's the number one takeaway that this would
accomplish. consumer transparency. It
lets everyone know that there's contracts between
the facilities and the referral agencies, that the
facilities are paying a high fee for these referrals. And
it just lets the consumer know that there's also other
avenues they can go to try and find placements versus
working with just a referral agency, who is only going to
steer you towards a facility that they contract with.
>> So referral agencies advertise their services as
almost doing the homework for the seniors or the
families. But what kind of homework should a family do
before going through a referral agency?
>> Sure, absolutely. They can contact their local
adrc, which has a full list of all the facilities that
are in that geographical area for that resident or
family, or they can contact the facility directly. Just
kind of say, you know, what services do you provide?
What's what's the environment? Can I come in
tour, talk with the residents, talk with the
staff, just go that route directly.
>> Now, you said there were national and local groups,
and often we find those disparities. Locals are more
local. Do they do a better job in your estimation?
>> In our part, there's probably pros and cons to
both. I think the nationals, you're right, is probably
more just geared towards from a national perspective.
They can't focus just on one state. For the ones that are
more state based, they probably have more
information and more resources from a state based
or a local based resource. >> So the industry overall
is facing a shortage of beds, shortage of workers,
low pay. What are the steps involved with handling this
new influx of patients? Because obviously this is
this. This is just transparency. If it passes,
it's not fixing any of the other bigger problems.
>> Right. Exactly. You're absolutely correct. So we
right now we have a state budget that's being worked
on right now. And we're asking for, you know,
continuation of funds in the family care or the Medicaid
waiver program. So we need to get more funds into into
that program to help pay for workers, pay for the
increasing cost of goods and services and everything else
that's going on. >> So for families that
aren't connected directly in the same state or the same
town as their their loved ones that need this care,
what would you recommend them to do? You said you can
reach out, but that's time consuming. That's why these
first place. >> Absolutely. I would still
say, you know, contact your local adrc. They're very
helpful. They're a great resource. And just look on
the internet, find facilities that are in the
area that you want to move into and look at those
directly and contact them directly.
Obviously, there's national implications for Medicaid
funding. How does that play into some of these concerns?
>> We're very concerned if there's going to be national
cuts into the Medicaid program, because that would
trickle down to the states. We already have a state
budget that's looking to potentially cut Medicaid
funds as well. So we're definitely doing our best to
kind of push for at least continuation of funds. But
yeah, we're we're hearing of cuts all across the board
that's significant concerns for the long term care
industry. >> All right. Mike
Pawlowski, CEO of the Pawlowski, CEO of the