on the commission decide to replace her in state education.
News, Republican lawmakers want to change the way the Department
of Public Instruction now scores standardized tests for third
through eighth graders. That's because last year, DPI changed
the cutoff scores needed to be proficient in reading or math,
resulting in scores in 2024 being about ten points higher
than the year before. The new forward exam scoring also no
longer aligns with the more difficult national test, known
as the Nation's Report card, a bill now before the legislature
would require DPI to revert back to the previous scoring model.
Chair of the Senate Education Committee, Republican Senator
John Jagler, authored the bill. And thanks very much for being
here. >> So why don't you like the new
scoring methods on the statewide forward exam?
>> For multiple reasons. I think it gives a false sense of what
our kids are doing and where they're at. But you know, the
bigger picture point here is it doesn't align. We have no way of
tracking data from previous years because and the DPI admits
this, that the way that they have blown up the scoring
system, we can't go back and look, we can't see how the kids
from the Covid pandemic, those those kids that were, you know,
kindergarten, first grade, are they catching up the kids, more
importantly, that are almost entering the workplace, the
seventh graders, who are now high school juniors and seniors,
where are they? Have they caught up from that? That last year?
And we can't track that data anymore. And, you know, as I
traveled around the new district, the new 13th Senate
district picked up a ton of geographical territory, and that
meant a lot of new superintendents, a lot of new
school districts. And the first thing I did was meet with law
enforcement and meet with my school superintendents. And they
were taken aback because they were not consulted. They had no
idea this came. And here we are. They don't know if some of the
innovation they're doing with literacy programs are working.
They have no way of going back and tracking. And then the
easiest point is we should be expecting our kids to do better.
We should set high standards, not lower them.
>> So Governor Tony Evers has also been critical of the new
scoring, saying just that, that we should have the highest
standards possible. But why should legislators decide on
learning assessments over educators? And should new
directives come with more funding like the $50 million for
phonics instruction. >> I don't think you can
conflate the two issues of saying it should come with with
more funding. I mean, why should we get involved? Well, honestly,
I wish we wouldn't have to. This was done in a closed situation
where these there is a list of just under 100 administrators or
school officials or people that they talk to for this process,
but they they did this in a vacuum, and it came out and it
came out, you know, let's be honest, politics is part of
everything. Came out in a in a very weird time to roll back
these standards, to make our kids look better, which in
effect, it did in an election year for the superintendent.
That's a little odd, but what perked my ears was the my
superintendent saying, we don't agree with this. We have. We
weren't part of this. We don't know where this came from. And
then when you have the governor first saying flat out, you know,
because those were his standards that he said she, she, they
rolled back the Department of Public Instruction, rolled back
the governor's standards, the education governor. So he caught
my interest when he said we shouldn't be lowering, we should
be expecting high standards. And then he kind of pivoted a little
bit to criticizing the process that it was done behind closed
doors without any input from stakeholders. And he was right
on both counts. >> And apart from the scoring,
why does the bill also call to revert back to how the scores
are described? For example, instead of below Basic as
previously to developing. >> Just to go back for
consistency. And one of the things that I had heard in an
interview was, well, you know, if you tell a parent that their
kid is below basic, that's, that's harmful, that's that's
hurtful language, that's I'm sorry, that's just weak sauce to
me. That's, that's that's soft. As I said in the in the
committee hearing, you know what? You know what hurts the
kids social, you know, mental health and hurts a kid in the
classes when he can't read. And we should be focusing on that
rather than what these labels say. And like I said, it goes
back the reason why we went back is we it's almost like just a
reset point. And unfortunately we're going to lose this year's
data. But I think it's worth it to go back and create some
consistency. And also create it so we can compare ourselves with
Naep, the national standards, and see how we're doing. How do
we possibly know when you're talking about investing billions
of dollars in education? What is the return going? How are our
kids doing? How are these educators using those dollars
that we commit to make sure our kids can read? And the troubling
part about it is this whole issue about rolling back the
standards came when the Nape scores came out this week, and
it should be a shock for everybody. It the numbers in
Milwaukee are, you know, we're talking the worst scoring for
fourth graders in the nation for Black kids in Milwaukee. The
achievement gap is still the lowest in the country. But the
eighth grade, eighth grade kids are also just just floundering.
And it shouldn't be acceptable to anybody. And you can't, you
know, the old line I was I was joking. It's Super Bowl week.
You can't can't achieve perfection if you don't strive
for excellence. You know, if you strive for strive for
perfection, you reach excellence. That's what Vince
Lombardi always said. And I think it's right on this count.
We should be expecting more. >> We need to leave it there.
Senator John Jagler, thanks very Senator John Jagler, thanks very