WELL. >> HOWARD SCHWEBER, THANKS VERY
MUCH. >> MY PLEASURE.
>> LOWER THAN USUAL DEER HUNT TOTALS FOR 2023 WERE RELEASED BY
THE D.N.R. THIS WEEK, CONTINUING A TREND OF DECLINING HARVEST
SINCE THE YEAR 2000. OVER THAT SAME TIME, WOLVES HAVE
SEEN THEIR POPULATION TRIPLE. HOW MUCH IMPACT DOES THE APEX
PREDATOR HAVE ON THE NORTH WOODS DEER POPULATION AND WHY ARE
WISCONSINITES SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THE ANIMAL?
HERE AND NOW REPORTER, NATHAN DENZIN, EXPLAINS.
>> I'M HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT MY BROTHER, AND MY BROTHER IS
THE MA'IINGAN. >> THE MORE YOU PUT WOLVES IN
CLOSE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE, THE GREATER THE CHANCES ARE OF SMALL
TRULY CATASTROPHIC HAPPENING. >> I THINK WOLVES SHOULD BE
ALLOWED TO REESTABLISH THEIR HISTORIC RANGE.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN ALLOWED UNCHECKED, UNMANAGED WOLF
POPULATION TO CONTINUE TO WREAK HAVOC.
>> BRING UP WOLVES TO A WISCONSINITE AND YOU'LL LIKELY
GET A PASSIONATE RESPONSE. >> IT'S PROBABLY BEEN THE
LONGEST, MOST INTENSE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS THAT I'VE
BEEN A PART OF. >> SAM JONAS IS THE WILDLIFE
SPECIES SUPERVISOR WITH THE WISCONSIN D.N.R..
HE HELPED WRITE WISCONSIN'S NEWEST WOLF MANAGEMENT PLAN
WHICH WAS RELEASED IN LATE 2023. >> IT STRIVES FOR A SUSTAINABLE
AND HEALTHY WOLF PROPOSITION IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.
>> GRAY WOLVES ARE FEDERALLY PROTECTED AS AN ENDANGERED
SPECIES, BUT IF THAT DESIGNATION WAS EVER LIFTED, WISCONSIN WOULD
BE REQUIRED BY LAW TO HOLD A WOLF HUNT LIKE IT DID IN 2021.
THE D.N.R. RECEIVED OVER 3,500 COMMENTS WHILE DEVELOPING THE
PLAN WITH A GROUP OF 29 STAKEHOLDERS.
RED CLIFF BAND OF OJIBWE IN NORTHERN WISCONSIN.
>> THE MA'IINGAN GOES BACK TO OUR HISTORY AND OUR STORIES, OUR
EXISTENCE, WHO WE ARE AS A NATION.
>> SHINGBINASE IS A SPIRITUAL LEADER IN RED CLIFF.
IN OJIBWE, MA'IINGAN MEANS WOLF. >> KNOW THE MA'IINGAN AS OUR
BROTHER. >> HE SAYS THAT THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN WOLVES AND OJIBWE GOES BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF MISCONCEPTIONS OUT THERE ABOUT
THAT HAS A HEART, THAT HAS A SOUL.
WOLVES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO NATIVE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN
BECAUSE IT'S SAID THAT WHAT HAPPENS TO ONE OF US WILL HAPPEN
TO THE OTHER. >> RON NOR D NORDIN IS WITH THE.
>> THE OBJECTIVE IS TO PROTECT THE WOLVES.
THEY CREATE BIODIVERSITY. THEY'RE EXCELLENT FOR THE
HABITAT. WE'RE SEEING BETTER FOREST
REGENERATION. OTHER ANIMALS OUT IN THE WOODS.
>> GENEVIÈVE WORK WITH NORDIN AS A WILDLIFE SPECIALIST FOR THE
TRIBE. >> WOLVES WILL IN GENERAL
REGULATE THEMSELVES. THEY HAVE PACK BOUNDARIES.
THEY CAN'T JUST EXPONENTIAL GROW.
>> THE WOLF POPULATION IN WISCONSIN HAS GROWN BUT NOT
EXPONENTIALLY. THEY NUMBERED ABOUT 2015 IN 2001
AND ARE RUFFLE 1,000 TODAY. THAT GROWTH HAS CAUSED PLENTY OF
CONFLICT. AGRICULTURE, AND ESPECIALLY
LIVESTOCK AGRICULTURE. >> BRAD OLSON IS THE PRESIDENT
OF THE WISCONSIN FARM BUREAU. IT WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE 2023
MANAGEMENT PLAN. OLSON SAYS WOLVES ARE A BIG
CONCERN FOR FARMS IN THE NORTHERN HALF OF THE STATE.
>> IN ONE CASE IN CENTRAL WISCONSIN, THEY CAME IN IN THE
NIGHT AND WIPED OUT THE ENTIRE HERD OF SHEEP.
THAT'S YEARS AND YEARS OF WORK BY THAT INDIVIDUAL FARMER.
THE EMOTIONAL STRESS OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW,
LOSING EVERYTHING IN ONE NIGHT DUE TO A PREDATOR.
>> THE WISCONSIN D.N.R. PAID OUT OVER $100,000 TO FARMERS FOR
LIVESTOCK KILLED BY FARMERS IN 2022 BUT OLSON SAYS IT'S ABOUT
MORE THAN MONEY. >> IT ISN'T A FINANCIAL LOSS AT
THAT POINT; IT'S AN EMOTIONAL LOSS AT THAT POINT AND IT'S
SOMETHING THAT, I'M SORRY, MONEY JUST CAN'T FIX.
>> OLSON SAYS HE AND HIS ORGANIZATION AREN'T OPPOSED TO
HAVING WOLVES IN THE STATE. >> I DON'T THINK I BE IS OUT TO
GET RID OF THE WOLVES. >> BUT THINK THE MANAGEMENT PLAN
HAS FLAWS. >> IT'S A BAD PLAN.
>> THE FARM BUREAU SENT A LETTER TO THE D.N.R. OPPOSING THE NEW
PLAN BACK IN OCTOBER. A KEY POINT OF CONTENTION IS THE
NUMBER OF WOLVES RECOMMENDED FOR A HEALTHY HABITAT.
THE OLD GUIDELINES RECOMMENDED A POPULATION OF 350 WOLVES FOR THE
WHOLE STATE BEFORE OTHER MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, LIKE A
HUNT, WERE IMPLEMENTED. NOW THERE IS NO SPECIFIC NUMBER
NAMED BEFORE THOSE MANAGEMENT PLANS WOULD BE CONSIDERED.
>> ONCE YOU GET PAST THAT 350 GOAL THAT WAS BACK IN THE LATE
'90s AND THE ORIGINAL WOLF PLAN THAT HAD SCIENTIFIC DATA TO
IT, THIS PLAN HAS NO SCIENTIFIC DATA.
>> BUT THE D.N.R.'S JONAS SAYS THAT NUMBER WAS MISUNDERSTOOD
AND NEEDED TO BE UPDATED. >> IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A
CAP, PER SE. IT WAS REALLY A MANAGEMENT
OBJECTIVE OR NUMBER TO CONSIDER OTHER MANAGEMENT TOOLS.
>> HE SAYS THE NEW GUIDANCE DOESN'T USE A STATEWIDE NUMBER
OF WOLVES BECAUSE IT WANTS TO BE MORE RESPONSIVE TO LOCAL
COMMUNITIES. BALANCING THAT WITH WHAT IS
DEPREDATION LOOK LIKE, WHAT DO CONFLICTS LOOK LIKE, WHAT IS THE
COMMUNITY SAYING FOR THE WOLF POPULATION WHERE THEY LIVE.
>> LET'S SAY WE DO SET A GOAL NUMBER.
THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE FROM YEAR TO YEAR BASED ON, YOU KNOW, NOT
ONLY CLIMATE DATA BUT PEOPLE, WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE DISTRIBUTED
AND JUST ALL THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS.
>> NOT EVERYONE SEES IT THAT WAY.
>> IF YOU LOOK AT DEER HARVEST OVER THE YEARS COMPARED TO WOLF
POPULATIONS OVER THE YEARS, IT IS -- THERE IS A DIRECT
CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO. >> KEITH MARK IS THE PRESIDENT
OF HUNTER NATION, A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR HUNTERS.
HUNTER NATION DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE 2023
MANAGEMENT PLAN, THOUGH MULTIPLE IN-STATE HUNTING ORGANIZATIONS
DID. HUNTER NATION SUED THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN IN 2021 TO SCHEDULE A WOLF HUNT WHILE GRAY WOLVES WERE
BRIEFLY DELISTED. >> SURELY THEY WANT TO SEE A
SUSTAINABLE POPULATION OF DEER. >> YEARLY DEER HUNT HARVESTS
HAVE FALLEN SINCE ITS PEAK IN 2000 FROM WELL OVER A MILLION TO
350,000 A YEAR AGO. NORTHERN COUNTIES, LIKE
BAYFIELD, HAVE SEEN A PARTICULARLY SHARP DECLINE.
HUNT TOTALS IN 2022 WERE ONLY A FRACTION OF WHAT THEY WERE TWO
DECADES AGO. >> YOU'RE GOING TO END UP WITH
SO FEW DEER THAT THERE WON'T BE A HUNTING SEASON.
>> IN MY PART OF THE STATE, YOU CAN SIT OUT THERE FOR HOURS ON
END ON OPENING DAY OF DEER SEASON AND NOT HEAR ANYTHING,
NOT HEAR A SHOT. >> BUT OTHERS AREN'T SURE WOLVES
ARE SOLELY TO BLAME FOR THE DECLINING DEER POPULATION.
>> IF YOU WERE AROUND HERE LAST WINTER, 157 INCHES OF SNOW, YOU
KNOW, IT'S GOING TO KILL THE DEER.
>> WHEN THERE'S LESS DEER, WHAT ARE THE WOLVES GOING TO EAT?
>> IT'S REALLY THE DEER POPULATION THAT REGULATES THE
WOLF POPULATION. >> D.N.R. RECORDS SHOW THE PAST
FIVE YEARS OF DEER HARVEST IN THE COUNTY HAVE BEEN LARGER THAN
HARVEST IN 1967 AND 1978. THAT WAS BEFORE THE FIRST
REINTRODUCED WOLFPACK WANDERED INTO DOUGLAS COUNTY.
IF THE GRAY WOLF EVER WAS TAKEN OFF OF THE ENDANGERED LIST, THE
2023 MANAGEMENT PLAN LIKE I SAID OUT A SYSTEM FOR EXPERTS TO
DECIDE LOCAL HARVEST GOALS. >> WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO
INCORPORATE LOCAL INPUT, LOCAL FEEDBACK AS TO HOW THEY FEEL,
YOU KNOW, WOLF POPULATION ARE IN THEIR COMMUNITY, WHAT IS THE
SCIENCE SAYING, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING WE'RE GOING TO BE
LOOKING AT AND THAT'S GOING TO HELP US BE FLEXIBLE AND
ADAPTABLE TO WHAT WOLVES ARE TELLING US.
>> IN THE MEANTIME, EVERYONE AGREES THERE IS COMMON GROUND TO
BE FOUND. >> WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER, BE
VIGILANT AND SIT DOWN AND LISTEN TO EACH OTHER.
>> THEY ARE A MAJESTIC ANIMAL. NO ONE IS ADVOCATE BE FOR THEIR
DEMISE AGAIN. >> WE REALLY NEED TO COME
TOGETHER AND HAVE A MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION, A MUTUAL,
RESPECTFUL CONVERSATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS EARTH.
>> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M >> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M