2-1/2 MILLION PEOPLE IN 2023.
THE CRUSH OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE
BORDER IS DESCRIBED AS A
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
MEANWHILE, THREE MILLION PENDING
ASYLUM CASE BEFORE U.S.
IMMIGRATION COURTS MEANS
MIGRANTS GAINING ENTRY AT THE
BORDER WAIT YEARS FOR THEIR
HEARINGS, ALL THE WHILE LIVING
AND, AFTER A TIME, LEGALLY
WORKING IN THE U.S..
ERIN BARBATO IS THE DIRECTOR OF
THE IMMIGRANT JUSTICE CLINIC AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN LAW
SCHOOL.
SHE RECENTLY VISITED THE BORDER
AND SHE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> Interview: THANK YOU FOR
HAVING ME.
>> SO I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE
IN TIJUANA.
>> Interview: YES, IN THE END
OF DECEMBER TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK
AT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON
THE BORDER AND THE POLICIES THAT
ARE IN PLACE THERE RIGHT NOW
THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY AND LOOKING AT
HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM
SYSTEM AND THE NEW POLICIES THAT
ARE IN PLACE.
>> WHAT DID YOU SEE AT THE
BORDER?
>> SO WE VISIT A NUMBER OF
SHELTERS THAT WERE HOUSING
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN TRANSIT
ATTEMPTING TO SEEK REFUGE IN THE
U.S..
AND IN ORDER TO DO SO RIGHT NOW,
THEY NEED TO APPLY FOR AN
APPOINTMENT WITH AN APP.
AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WE MET
WITH HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
MONTHS IN ORDER TO ACCESS THAT
APPOINTMENT, BUT OUR GOVERNMENT
IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GO
THROUGH A REGULAR ROUTE TO ENTER
THE U.S. TO SEEK PROTECTION, BUT
IT IS CAUSING A LOT OF PEOPLE TO
WAIT VERY LONG IN MEXICO BEFORE
THEY CAN EVEN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM
SYSTEM.
>> WHY ARE SO MANY MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE WANTING TO GAIN ENTRY
INTO THE U.S.?
>> I MEAN, THAT'S A GOOD
QUESTION.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, WE
LIVE IN A GREAT COUNTRY AND
PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING ALL OVER
THE WORLD AND SO IF WE WERE
LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE NO ONE
WANTED TO COME, THAT WOULD
PROBABLY BE AN ISSUE, BUT WE'RE
LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE DO
HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE.
AND PEOPLES' LICE ARE LIVES ARER
IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
>> WHAT POLICIES HAVE CHANGED
ALLOWING THIS MORE RECENT CRUSH?
>> I'M NOT SURE IF THE POLICIES
HAVE CHANGED.
IT'S DIFFICULT IN THE PAST FEW
YEARS COMPARE NUMBER CONSIDERING
THAT THE BORDER WAS CLOSED UNDER
TITLE 42 FOR SO LONG AND NOW
THAT THE BORDER IS -- IT'S NOT
OPEN, BUT IT'S FUNCTIONING UNDER
WHAT'S CALLED TITLE 8, WHICH IS
A LAW THAT GOM GOVERNS OUR ASYLM
PROCESS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO SEEK
ASYLUM WHICH THEY CAN'T DO
UNLESS THEY HAVE A CV APP 1
APPOINTMENT.
ONE OTHER CHANGE THAT
POTENTIALLY HAS SOME VALIDITY IN
HELPING PEOPLE ACCESS THE ASYLUM
SYSTEM IN A MORE REGULAR MANNER
IS THE OPENING OF THESE MOBILE
OFFICES IN COLOMBIA, GUATEMALA
AND COSTA RICA, AND WILL ALLOW
PEOPLE WITH STRONG CASES TO
APPLY FOR REFUGEE EFSTATHIOS
THERE AND THEN FLY TO THE U.S.
AND SO IT COULD TAKE SOME
PRESSURE OFF THE BORDER AS WELL
AS OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM.
>> MEANWHILE, THERE'S SO MUCH
DISCUSSION AROU AROUND THE AND E
NUMBERS OF PEOPLE CROSSING INTO
THE UNITED STATES.
WHAT HAPPENS THROUGH SOME
EXECUTIVE OR LEGISLATIVE ACTION
THE BORDERS CLOSE?
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
>> IT SEEMS THAT IT IS POSSIBLY,
POTENTIALLY WHETHER OUR
PRESIDENT HAS THE ABILITY UNDER
THE LAWS TO CLOSE THE BORDER I
THINK IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE
LITIGATED IN COURT.
OUR LAWS SAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE
THE RIGHT TO SEEK ASYLUM IN THE
U.S. AS WELL AS THE BORDER IF
THEY HAVE AN EMPLOYMENT VISA OR
EVEN A VISITOR VISA TO VISIT A
FAMILY.
SO IT COULD HAVE REALLY HARSH
CONSEQUENCES ON SEPARATING
FAMILIES AND ALSO PUTTING MORE
PEOPLE IN DANGER, BUT THAT MAY
HAPPEN.
>> SHORT OF CLOSING THE BORDER,
DOES IT SEEM LIKELY THAT HIGHLY
RESTRICTIVE LAWS WILL BE PUT IN
PLACE AT THIS TIME?
>> I KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN
DISCUSSED.
I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY'VE EVER
WORKED BEFORE.
MORE DETERRENTS, MORE
ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T SEEM TO
DETER PEOPLE TO NECESSARILY COME
FROM THE U.S. AND I THINK THERE
MIGHT BE A BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT
A MORE HUMANITARIAN SOLUTION.
>> WHY DO PEOPLE WAIT SO LONG TO
HAVE THEIR CASES HEARD?
>> THE BACKLOG WITHIN OUR
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW SYSTEM IN THE
IMMIGRATION COURTS IS -- IT'S
VERY LONG.
AND SO PEOPLE, EVEN WITH THE
STRONGEST ASYLUM CASES, ARE
WAITING YEARS IN ORDER TO ACCESS
THE BENEFITS THAT THEY ARE
ENTITLED TO UNDER OUR LAWS, AND
SO IT MAKES THE SYSTEM VERY
DIFFICULT TO MANAGE.
PEOPLE MAY MISS THEIR COURT
HEARINGS BECAUSE THE COURT
HEARINGS GET CHANGED ALL OF THE
TIME AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AN
ATTORNEY WHEN THEY'RE IN THE
PROCESS UNLESS THEY CAN AFFORD
ONE OR FIND A PRO BONO ONE.
IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SYSTEM TO
NAVIGATE AND IT'S NOT GOING
QUIBBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
ELIGIBLE QUICKLY FOR PEOPLE WHO
ARE ELIGIBLE.
>> ONCE THEY GET TO THAT
HEARING, HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT
PEOPLE SEEKING ASYLUM WILL BE
GRANTED IT?
>> YOU KNOW, THE PERCENTAGES
DIFFER WHERE YOU'RE IN THE U.S..
THE NUMBERS -- THE JUDGES'
PERCENTAGES OF APPROVAL ARE
AVAILABLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
SO IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY, BUT
IT'S DIFFICULT.
IT'S NOT -- THE PERCENTAGE IS
NOT HIGH FOR THE PEOPLE THAT
RECEIVE ASYLUM.
IF YOU'RE REPRESENTED BY AN
ATTORNEY, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO
GET ASYLUM BECAUSE THEY KNOW
WHAT THE LAW IS, WHAT THE JUDGE
IS LOOKING FOR BASED ON YOUR
STORY, BUT IT'S A VERY
COMPLICATED, DIFFICULT PROCESS
AND PEOPLE DO NOT JUST -- AREN'T
JUST GIVEN PAPERS.
IT TAKES YEARS.
IT TAKES MONTHS TO PREPARE.
IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS.
>> MEANWHILE, PEOPLE WHO ARE
AWAITING THAT HEARING, THEY CAN
GET AUTHORIZATION TO WORK
LEGALLY?
>> YES.
NORMALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT
PROCESS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH,
BUT YOU HAVE TO WAIT A NUMBER OF
MONTHS, NORMALLY SIX MONTHS TO A
YEAR, TO OBTAIN A WORK PERMIT TO
WORK IN THE U.S..
ONCE YOU'RE HERE, YOU'RE HERE
WITH AUTHORIZATION.
YOU CAN WORK, YOU CAN GET A
DRIVER'S LICENSE, YOU CAN GET A
SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, BUT
YOU'RE NOT HERE PERMANENTLY.
YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE U.S..
YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PUBLIC
BENEFITS.
YOU ARE HERE TEMPORARILY AND
MAYBE IT'S FOR YEARS WAITING TO
ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM, BUT
THE WORK PERMIT DOES ALLOW
PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY
AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.