>> THREE WISCONSIN PRISONS HAVE
SUCH A SHORTAGE OF CORRECTIONAL
OFFICERS, THEY ARE ON SOME FORM
OF LOCKDOWN.
OR AS THE AGENCY PREFERS,
MODIFIED MOVEMENT.
FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE MAXIMUM
SECURITY WAUPUN PRISON, THE
VACANCY RATE SITS AT 53%.
AT THE GREEN BAY PRISON, IT'S A
41% VACANCY RATE, AND AT
STANLEY, IT'S NEARLY 44%.
ADS LOOKING TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO
BECOME CORRECTIONS OFFICERS HAVE
BEEN HITTING AIRWAVES AND
ON-LINE RECENTLY.
THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
EXPECTS TO BE ABLE TO RECRUIT
AND RETAIN MORE OFFICERS WITH
THE NEWLY APPROVED PAY BUMP FROM
DOCTORS 20 AN HOUR TO $33, A
RAISE THAT WENT INTO EFFECT THIS
WEEK.
THE WISCONSIN POLICY FORUM JUST
RELEASED A REPORT TITLED PRISON
BLUES, WHICH EXPLORED PRISON
SPENDING IN THE STATE.
RESEARCH DIRECTOR JASON STEIN
JOINS US ON THIS.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU.
>> SO THE DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS DESCRIBES A DIRE
STAFFING SHORTAGE IN ITS PRISONS
AS EVIDENCED BY THE LOCKDOWN OF
INMATES, MAX SECURITY WAUPUN
WITH THAT 53% VACANCY RATE.
HOW SHOULD THIS PAY BUMP
AMELIORATE THIS PROBLEMMISH.
>> IT'S GOING TO HELP ACROSS THE
LABOR MARKET, WE'VE SEEN
EMPLOYER CHALLENGES, TURNOVER
RATES RISING, AND THAT'S ACROSS
STATE GOVERNMENT.
OUR 24/7 INSTITUTIONS, THAT'S
WHERE IT'S BEEN MOST ACUTE.
I THINK THE CHALLENGES IN 2022,
THERE WERE MORE THAN 2,000
VACANCIES WITHIN THE PRISON
SYSTEM.
SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT -- AND
YOU CAN'T SIMPLY BRING SOMEONE
IN ONTO STREET, PUT THEM IN A
PLACE LIKE WAUPUN AND HAVE THEM
WALK THE LINE.
YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THESE PEOPLE.
SO THEY'RE GOING TO TURN THE
SHIP IN THE WATER, BUT IT'S A
BIG SHIP AND A LONG TURN.
>> HOW LONG COMING AS THIS PAY
RAISE BEEN IS THIS.
>> YOU KNOW, IT TOOK US YEARS TO
GET IN THIS POSITION OF ACROSS
STATE GOVERNMENT AND
PARTICULARLY WITHIN THE PRISON
SYSTEM HAVING THESE VACANCIES,
AND THIS GAP BETWEEN WHAT THE
STATE WAS WILLING TO PAY AND
WHAT PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO DO,
BECAUSE COMING TO WORK EVERY DAY
IN A PRISON IS, NEWS FLASH, A
VERY DIFFICULT JOB, AND SO IT'S
GOING TO TAKE TIME TO GET OUT OF
THIS HOLE.
>> AND ADDING TO THAT PROBLEM,
THE STATE'S 37 PRISONS ARE OVER
CAPACITY WITH THOSE
INCARCERATED, AND THIS HAS LONG
BEEN THE CASE.
AND WE INCARCERATE MORE PEOPLE
THAN NEIGHBORING STATES.
WHY THIS MISMATCH WITH OUR
NEIGHBORS?
>> YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE
'90s, WISCONSIN BUILT A LARGE
PRISON SYSTEM AND DESPITE THE
FACT THAT IT'S A LARGE SYSTEM,
IT'S BEEN OVER CAPACITY, EVEN
WHEN WE DIPPED THIS POPULATION
DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE REMAIN
OVER CAPACITY.
IT COMES DOWN TO WE INCARCERATE
AT HIGHER RATES THAN OUR
NEIGHBORS, HIGHER RATES THAN
NATIONAL AVERAGE, AND THAT LEADS
TO PER CAPITA SPENDING ON
CORRECTIONS BEING HIGHER IN
WISCONSIN THAN IN OUR
NEIGHBORING STATES.
THIS IS, AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT
YOU CANNOT CHANGE OVERNIGHT, BUT
THERE ARE THINGS THAT THE STATE
CAN DO AND THE STATE HAS THE
RESOURCES NOW TO TRY AND BEND
THIS CURVE OVER THE NEXT
GENERATION.
>> AND HOW DO YOU BEND THE CURVE
IN THAT WAY?
>> YOU KNOW, ONE -- THE BIGGEST
CONTRIBUTOR TO INCARCERATION IN
THE STATE HAS BEEN REVOCATIONS.
SO IT'S NOT PEOPLE THAT ARE
COMMITTING A CRIME FOR THE FIRST
TIME.
IT MAY BE A CRIME, BUT THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN RELEASED ON
EXTENDED SUPERVISION INTO THE
COMMUNITY AND SOMETHING, WHETHER
IT'S SUBSTANCE ABUSE, WHETHER
IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGE,
WHETHER IT'S NEW CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY IS LANDING THEM BACK IN
THE SYSTEM.
AND SO THE STATE HAS BEEN
TESTING METHODS AND HAS ACTUALLY
LOWERED THAT REVOCATION RATE.
AND SO THAT WILL MAKE A
DIFFERENCE GOING FORWARD, BUT
THEN WE ALSO HAVE TO ENSURE THAT
PUBLIC SAFETY IS MAINTAINED
WHILE THOSE REVOCATION RATES ARE
LOWERED AS WELL.
>> AND I CAN IMAGINE THAT'S THE
KIND OF EFFORT THAT TAKES A
WHILE TO BRING THOSE NUMBERS
DOWN.
>> CORRECT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SUBSTANCE
ABUSE, MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES,
THESE ARE VERY DIFFICULT
PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH FOR ANYONE
IN THE POPULATION, AND, YOU
KNOW, ONE AREA WHERE THE
STATE -- ONE BRIGHT SPOT IS THE
STATE DOES HAVE, WITHIN ITS
LARGE STATE SURPLUS, THE ABILITY
TO INVEST IN TARGETED, YOU KNOW,
TO EXPERIMENT AND INVEST IN
TARGETED METHODS TO TRY AND DEAL
WITH THESE PROBLEMS.
>> SO WISCONSIN IS SPENDING
$2.76 BILLION CORRECTIONS IN THE
CURRENT STATE BUDGET.
AGAIN, MORE PER INMATE THAN
SURROUNDING STATES, AND IS IT A
FUNCTION OF JUST HAVING MORE
INMATES AND MORE PRISONS THAT
WE'RE SPENDING MORE THAN OUR
SURROUNDING STATES?
>> IT'S LARGELY A FUNCTION OF
THAT.
THE THING THAT PEOPLE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND IS STATE PRISONS ARE
NOT SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO GIVE YOU
MONEY OR ANY OTHER STATE IS
GOING TO GIVE YOU MONEY FOR.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR
THAT WITH YOUR OWN STATE'S TAX
DOLLARS, SO FINDING WAY TO
ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY BUT ALSO
MINIMIZE CORRECTION SPENDING
OVER TIME IS GOING TO TO SAVINGS
IS ENTIRELY GOING TO GO TO
TAXPAYERS IF YOU CAN THREAD THAT
NEEDLE.
>> HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL START