>> I APPRECIATE YOU.
THANK YOU FOR AIRING THIS ISSUE.
>> FOR THE OPPOSING VIEWPOINT,
WE'RE JOINED BY CHRIS MOKLER,
DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS
FOR THE WISCONSIN REAL ESTATE
INVESTORS ASSOCIATION.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.
>> SO WHAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT
OF THIS RULE CHANGE FOR
LANDLORDS?
>> WELL, THE BIGGEST THING THAT
THIS DOES IS IT CREATES MORE
WORK FOR THE LANDLORDS AND IT
ALSO HARMS OTHER TENANTS, OTHER
GOOD TENANTS.
I'LL EXPLAIN THE SECOND ONE
FIRST.
IF THIS RULE WERE PUT INTO
EFFECT, GOOD TENANTS WHO PAY
THEIR RENT ON TIME ARE NOW GOING
TO BE EQUAL IN THEIR FOOTING ON
THEIR APPLICATIONS WITH TENANTS
THAT HAVE HAD EVICTIONS.
A LANDLORD, FOR THE FIRST PART
OF MY ANSWER, WAS THE LANDLORD
IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO MORE
RESEARCH, BECAUSE A LANDLORD
OWES A DUTY TO NOT ONLY OTHER
TENANTS OF THE BUILDING BUT
NEIGHBORS TO THE BUILDINGS IN
THE CITIES BECAUSE IF THERE'S A
PROBLEM, THOSE ARE THE FIRST
PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE
UPSET, WHICH IS GOING TO BE
POLICE CALLS, IT'S GOING TO BE
PROBLEM WITH CITY LEADERS AND
HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH AND NOBODY
LIKES THAT.
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF LANDLORDS
USE WISCONSIN'S ELECTRONIC CASE
SEARCH TO RESEARCH PERSPECTIVE
RENTERS?
IS IT NEARLY ALL WILL DO SOME
CURSORY SEARCH?
>> I WOULD ASSUME THAT.
THERE'S NO WAY FOR ME TO HAVE A
NUMBER.
IT'S AB AVAILABLE SERVICE TO
JUST LIKE A BANK AND WHEN IT'S
GIVING YOU A LOAN, THEY LOOK AT
YOUR CREDIT REPORT.
THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST WAYS A
LANDLORD CAN LOOK AND BE SURE
THEY'RE PUTTING A GOOD TENANT IN
THEIR BUILDING.
>> DO YOU THINK ALL OF THOSE
LANDLORDS UNDERSTAND THAT SOME
OF THOSE EVICTION NOTICE MAY
HAVE BEEN FILED INACADEMICALLY
OR WEREN'T ACTUALLY RUTTING IN A
FULL EVICTION AND THERE'S A
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND A
FULL EVICTION, AND SHOULD THERE
BE A DIFFERENCE?
>> WE'VE BEEN PROMOTE THAT GO TO
OUR LANDLORDS, JUST DON'T LOOK
AT THE FIRST PAGE THAT LOOKS AT
EVICTIONS AND DIG INTO IT AND
LOOK AT IT.
SOME MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN A
STIPULATED DISMISSAL WHERE THEY
CAME TO AN AGREEMENT AND THAT
AGREEMENT IS PUT IN WRITING AND
SIGNED AND THE JUDGE SIGNS OFF
THE ON IT.
THERE COULD BE LOTS OF REASONS.
WE CERTAINLY TEACH TO DIG INTO
IT.
A LOT OF LANDLORDS WILL RENT TO
PEOPLE WITH EVICTIONS BUT THEY
WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION
WAS WITH EVICTION.
>> WITH THIS TIGHT HOUSING
MARKET, WHAT ARE NUMBER OF
PEOPLE APPLYING FOR AN APARTMENT
OR A UNIT SOMEWHERE?
>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE
GETTING A LOT OF PEOPLE APPLYING
FOR UNITS.
IT'S MAYBE SLOWING DOWN A LITTLE
BIT NOW.
RENTS ARE BECOMING A LITTLE BIT
MORE LEVELED OFF AND NOB AND OBY
THERE'S BEEN MORE APARTMENTS
BUILT IN THE LAST COUPLE OF
YEARS, NOT ENOUGH, WE STILL NEED
HOUSING IN WISCONSIN, NOT ONLY
SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, BUT
APARTMENTS.
SO IT'S BEEN WORKING OUT AND,
YEAH, THE LANDLORDS GETTING A
LOT OF APPLICATIONS SHOWING
THEIR APARTMENT A LOT OF TIMES.
WHEN I LEAVE HERE, I'M GOING TO
BE SHOWING AN APARTMENT TWO
TIMES.
>> SO THE TENANT ADVOCACY GROUPS
ARE SAYING THAT THESE RECORDS
SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT
HOUSING IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
SHOULD THAT PLAY INTO THIS
ARGUMENT BEFORE THE SUPREME
COURT?
>> HOUSING IS A HUMAN RIGHT,
PERHAPS, BUT IT'S UP TO SOME
TENANTS THAT HAVE EVICTIONS AND,
UNFORTUNATELY, REPEATED
EVICTIONS.
LANDLORDS AREN'T GOING TO
AUTOMATICALLY NOT TAKE YOU JUST
BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EVICTION.
THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE
SCENARIO.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SEVERAL
EVICTIONS, OWING A LOT OF MONEY
AND NO EFFORT FROM WHAT WE CAN
TELL TO PAY IT BACK, THEREFORE,
IT GETS TO BE A PROBLEM OF WHY
SHOULD YOU RELY ON A MOM AND POP
OPERATION THAT MAY ONLY OWN A
COUPLE OF UNITS, LIKE MOST
LANDLORDS IN WISCONSIN DO, TO
RISK THEIR FINANCIAL FUTURE,
OFTENTIMES THESE LANDLORDS HAVE
ANOTHER JOB AND THEY'RE DOING
THIS ON THE SIDE AND, YOU KNOW,
THEY'VE GOT TO MAKE A BANK
PAYMENT.
ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL
APARTMENT ASSOCIATION, ONLY
ABOUT 7 CENTS, MAYBE A LITTLE
LESS FOR SMALL LANDLORDS, OF
EVERY DOLLAR OF RENT, ASSUMING
THAT THE RENT IS PAID IN FULL,
ACTUALLY GOES TO THE LANDLORD.
SO ONE LITTLE HICCUP AND THE
LANDLORD'S NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.
THEY HAVE TO PAY THE TAXES AND
THE UTILITIES, ALL THAT STUFF.
>> THIS RULE CHANGE IS LOOKING
TO MAKE A CONSIDERABLE TIME LINE
CHANGE, FOR UP TO 20 YEARS FOR A
RECORD FOLLOWING SOMEONE ON-LINE
VERSUS JUST ONE YEAR.
IS THERE A HAPPY MEDIUM?
LIKE HOW VALUABLE IS AN EVICTION
RECORD FOR 20 YEARS AGO VERSUS
ONE FROM TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO?
>> WELL, IN ACT 317 FROM I
BELIEVE IT WAS 2021, 2020, I'D
HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK, WE
ACTUALLY PROPOSED THE RULE
CHANGE THAT THE STATE IS NOT
CURRENTLY FOLLOWING, AND I CAN'T
GET INTO -- THERE'S A LOT TO IT,
WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR,
BUT THERE'S A TWO-YEAR LIMIT ON
CERTAIN EVICTIONS THAT CAN BE
REMOVED FROM C-CAP, THE
AUTOMATION PROGRAM, THAT WE
ACTUALLY PROPOSED, AND THEY WANT
TO CHANGE THAT TO ONE YEAR.
WE JUST THINK THAT'S TOO TIGHT.
>> SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE
LEFT HERE.
WHAT HAVE THE COUNTY CLERK OF
COURTS SAY THAT THE AMOUNT OF
RENTERS ASKING JUDGES TO
EX-EXPUNGES THESE RECORDS
IMMEDIATELY AFTER AN EVICTION IS
FILED OR CLOSED IS ON A DRAMATIC
UPTICK, THAT MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE ARE DOING THIS.
SO WOULD A MORE UNIFORMED POLICY
MAKE SENSE IF SOME PEOPLE ARE
MORE EASILY ABLE TO GET THEIR
PERSONAL EVICTION RECORDS ERASED
WHEN SOME PEOPLE AREN'T?
>> UNIFORM POLICY -- YOU SEE
THIS HAPPENING A LOT IN
MILWAUKEE AND PERHAPS IN
MADISON.
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT MO MORE
TENANTS THERE.
WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING IT -- I
THINK THE CURRENT LAW SHOULD BE
FOLLOWED, WHICH IN SOME CASES,
WE DON'T THINK IT IS AS FAR AS
EXPUNGEMENT.
THERE'S CERTAIN CASES WHERE
EXPUNGEMENT IS GOOD AND OTHER
CASES WHERE IT'S NOT OPEN
RECORDS FOR ALL TO SEE LIKE WE
DO HERE IN WISCONSIN.
>> ALL RIGHT.