>> THANK YOU, FREDERICA.
>> THE COVID PANDEMIC IS IN THE
REAR VIEW FOR MOST OF US, BUT IS
IT?
THERE'S A NEW VARIANT
CIRCULATING AND SEVERAL COUNTIES
IN WISCONSIN REPORT HIGH
CONCENTRATIONS OF THE VIRUS IN
WASTEWATER RIGHT NOW.
STILL, IT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO
THE WORST DAYS OVER THE LAST
THREE YEARS.
ARE WE AS A NATION AND A STATE
PREPARED FOR THE NEXT PANDEMIC?
WE TURN TO DR. MICHAEL
OSTERHOLM, FORMERLY A BIDEN
WHITE HOUSE ADVISER ON COVID,
FOR HIS TAKE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>> THANKS.
GOOD TO BE BACK WITH YOU AGAIN.
>> SO YOU SAY IT'S NOT DONE WITH
US YET.
WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I'M QUITE
CONVINCED THAT THE BIG PANDEMIC
CRUX THAT WE SAW FROM 2020 TO
2023 IS, IN FACT THE PANDEMIC
BEHIND US.
WHAT WE'RE REALLY DEALING WITH
NOW IS WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE
GOING FORWARD.
JUST LIKE IF YOU HAVE AN
INFLUENZA PANDEMIC, THE NEW
VIRUS CAUSES REAL CHALLENGES FOR
SEVERAL YEARS AND THEN IT
BASICALLY ADAPTS INTO THE
SEASONAL FLU PATTERN.
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW WITH COVID
YET IS WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE.
IS IT A SEASONAL VIRUS?
WELL, RIGHT NOW IT'S IN ALL FOUR
SEASONS, SO I GUESS YOU CAN SAY
IN THAT REGARD IT'S SEASONAL,
BUT DOES IT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING
LIKE THE RESPIRATORY VIRUSES
LIKE INFLUENZA OR RSV WE SEE?
NO.
DO WE SEE CASES INCREASES IN THE
SUMMER?
WE SEE THEM INCREASE IN THE
FALL.
SO WE'RE REALLY UNCLEAR WHAT
THIS PATTERN IS GOING TO LOOK
LIKE, BUT IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT
THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE WITH US.
>> SO YOU AND FELLOW WHITE HOUSE
VIRUSES WROTE ABOUT YOUR
TAKE-AWAYS FROM THE PANDEMIC,
INCLUDING THAT AS A NATION, WE
SHOULD PREPARE NOW FOR WHATEVER
MIGHT COME NEXT, BUT DIDN'T OUR
EXPERIENCE OF COVID RESULT IN
STOCKPILES OF SCIENTIFIC
KNOWLEDGE, INFRASTRUCTURE,
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE GEAR AND ALL
OF THAT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS BEST
A VERY COMPLICATED TOPIC.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU MENTIONED
RESPIRATORY GEAR.
ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE
HAD IS, EARLY ON, WE RECOGNIZED
THAT THE VIRUS WAS BEING SPREAD
BY THE AIRBORNE ROUTE, JUST
BREATHING AIR THAT WOULD MOVE
THROUGH A LARGE ROOM, AND YET WE
HAD MANY WHO CONTINUED TO USE
SURGICAL MASKS, THE KIND OF
MASKS THAT ARE NOT TIGHT FITTING
AROUND THE FACE, AND WHILE THEY
MAY HAVE THOUGHT THEY WERE
PROTECTED OR IF THEY WERE
PROTECTING OTHERS, THEY REALLY
WEREN'T.
AND SO WE STILL HAVE MANY
HOSPITALS THAT ARE USING
OUTDATED RESPIRATORY PROTECTION
GEAR SOME THREE YEARS AFTER THEY
SHOULD HAVE SWISHED TO N-95
SWITCHED TO N-95 RESPIRATORS.
WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
THE OTHER THING THAT IS
CHALLENGING IS THAT PUBLIC
HEALTH HAS AS A DISCIPLINE
ALWAYS RELIED ON BASICALLY THE
TRUST OF THE PEOPLE, THE BELIEF
THAT, IN FACT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE
DOING WHAT WAS RIGHT FOR THE
POPULATION TO PROTECT THEM
AGAINST, IN THIS CASE, A VIRUS.
WE'VE LOST A LOT OF TRUST AND
THE SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC OVER
THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS BECAUSE
THEY FELT LIKE WE WERE NOT BEING
TRUTHFUL WHEN WE SHOULD HAVE
SAID WE DON'T KNOW, WE MADE
STATEMENTS THAT SUGGESTED WE
KNEW MORE THAN WE DID AND THEN
IT TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG, AND
SO I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK
YET TO DO FOR THE NEXT PANDEMIC,
AND IF I HAD TO GIVE YOU MY BEST
PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT, I WOULD
SAY WE'RE LESS PREPARED FOR A
PANDEMIC TODAY THAN WE WERE IN
2019.
>> IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM POSSIBLE
THAT THAT'S TRUE WITH ALL OF THE
EFFORTS, INCLUDING YOUR OWN,
THAT WENT INTO THIS DURING THE
WORST DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC.
BUT AS TO THE PUBLIC TRUST, IN
PUBLIC HEALTH, CAN THAT BE
REGAINED?
>> WELL, I THINK IT CAN BE
REGAINED, BUT WE HAVE LESSONS TO
LEARN AND WE HAVE TO REALIZE
WE'RE IN A VERY DIFFERENT WORLD
TODAY THAN WE HAVE BEEN FOR THE
LAST HUNDRED YEARS WITH REGARD
TO HOW PUBLIC HEALTH IS VIEWED.
I MEAN, WE NEED TO LOOK NO
FURTHER THAN OUR POLITICAL
CLIMATE TODAY IN THIS COUNTRY TO
UNDERSTAND THE DISTRUST, THE
MISTRUST, AND SO MANY
ESTABLISHMENTS OR INSTITUTIONS
OF OUR SOCIETY, AND THAT IS
REALLY A CRISIS.
WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS YOU MUST
EVACUATE NOW, YOU MUST GET OUT
NOW, THAT IS NOT UP FOR
DISCUSSION OR DEBATE, BUT PEOPLE
WILL ONLY DO THAT IF THEY TRUST
THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING THEM IS
TRUE.
NOW, WE DON'T HAVE TO EVACUATE
FOR A PANDEMIC, BUT WE WANT
PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED.
IN THIS COUNTRY, ONLY 42% OF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE AT HIGH RISK FOR
SERIOUS ILLNESS,
HOSPITALIZATIONS OR DEATHS, GOT
THE BOOSTER DOSE OVER THE LAST
YEAR, AND I THINK WITH THE NEW
BOOSTER DOSE THAT'S COMING OUT
IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, AN EVEN
SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF THOSE AT
RISK FOR SERIOUS ILLNESS ARE
GOING TO GET EVACUATED.
WHY IS THAT?
WHY WOULD SOMEONE NOT TAKE A
LIFE-SAVING, AND IF NOTHING
ELSE, AT LEAST REDUCING YOUR
RISK OF SERIOUS ILLNESS VACCINE?
WHAT HAVE WE DONE THAT HAS LED
PEOPLE TO NOT WANT TO GET THOSE?
SO I THINK WE STILL HAVE A LOT
OF WORK TO DO TO UNDERSTAND
THAT, AND I KEEP SAYING TIME AND
TIME AGAIN, THE FIRST AND MOST
IMPORTANT LESSON WE SHOULD HAVE
LEARNED IS THE CRITICAL,
CRITICAL NATURE OF HUMILITY.
WHAT DO WE KNOW?
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW.
WHAT DO WE KNOW, HOW DO WE KNOW
IT, AND WHAT WE DON'T KNOW, WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO TO FIND SNOUT
THAT IS STILL A MAJOR LESSON
THAT WE SHOULD ALL TAKE HOME
FROM THIS PANDEMIC.
>> I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME LEFT,
BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT
ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR IMPORTANT
TAKE-AWAYS, AND THAT IS THAT
SCHOOLS SHOULD NOT BE SHUT DOWN
EXCEPT IN RARE CASES, BUT I ASK
WAS NOT THE COVID PANDEMIC A
RARE CASE.
>> ONE MESSAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN
WE SHOULD BE BASING IT ON DATA.
ARE WE SEEING INFECTIONS IN
SCHOOLS?
IF SO, WE MAY NEED SNOW DAYS.
WE MAY NEED TO TAKE TIME TO LET
THE VIRUS IN A COMMUNITY COME
DOWN SOME, BUT WHERE WE DON'T
SEE EVIDENCE OF OUTGOING
WIDESPREAD INFECTION, THEN WE
SHOULDN'T BE CLOSED DOWN.
WE PUT IN BLANKET DO THIS OR DO
THAT WITHOUT REALLY
UNDERSTANDING HOW WE HAD TO
REACT AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN
THE COMMUNITY, WHAT ARE THE DATA
SUPPORTS, AND THE PERIOD OF
2022, EARLY 2023, I SUPPORTED
CLOSING SCHOOLS WITH OMICRON.
WE HAD UP TO HALF THE TEACHERS
OUT SICK.
HOW DO YOU PROVIDE EDUCATION,
AND, OF COURSE, WE WORRY ABOUT
THE KIDS, BUT IN THAT FIRST YEAR
OF THE PANDEMIC, FRANKLY, HAVING
CLOSED SCHOOLS WAS NOT LIKELY
ANYTHING THAT PROVIDED
ADDITIONAL PROTECTION FOR THE
COMMUNITY.
SO THIS IS, AGAIN, ANOTHER VERY
COMPLICATED MESSAGE OF PUBLIC
HEALTH HAS TO GET BETTER AT
SHARING WHY DO WE DO WHAT WE DO
AND WHY DON'T WE DO WHAT WE
DON'T.