>> DR. LEE, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> LAST WEEK, WE SPOKE WITH A
CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER ABOUT NEW
DATA THAT SHOWS THOUSANDS OF
INSTANCES OF GRADE SCHOOL
CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES BEING
SECLUDED AND RESTRAINED IN
WISCONSIN SCHOOLS IN THE LAST
ACADEMIC YEAR.
ATTORNEY JEFF SPITZER-RESNICK
CALLED THE PRACTICES ABUSIVE AND
SAID THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTIONS RESPONSE HAS BEEN
INADEQUATE.
TONIGHT WE HERE FROM ABIGAIL
SWETZ, D.P.I. DIRECTOR, AND TIM
BEAR ENBOOM AND D.P.I. EDUCATION
CONSULTANT.
THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FIRST TO YOU, ABIGAIL.
THE RECENT D.P.I. DATA RELEASE
DOESN'T NAME INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS
THAT ARE USING SECLUSION AND
RESTRAINT.
AS A PARENT, COULD I FIND OUT IF
MY CHILD'S SCHOOL WAS USING
THESE TECHNIQUES?
AND IF NOT, WHY NOT?
>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
THE FIRST THING TO KEEP IN MIND
ABOUT THIS IS WE'VE BEEN
COLLECTING THIS DATA FOR THREE
YEARS AND THE LAW REQUIRES TO US
COLLECT IT AND WE DECIDE TO PUT
IT INTO A REPORT AND MAKE THAT
PUBLIC.
THERE ARE DOWNLOAD FILES ON OUR
WEBSITE THAT GO INTO MORE DETAIL
THAN THE REPORT DOES.
>> AND SO --
>> AND I BELIEVE TIM HAS SPOKEN
TO OTHERS ABOUT HOW WE ARE ABLE
TO SHOW THAT INFORMATION AT A
MORE GRANULAR LEVEL.
>> AND SO AS A PARENT, I COULD
SEEK THAT OUT?
>> YES.
>> TIM, WE KNOW THAT SECLUSION
AND RESTRAINT IS TO BE USED AS A
LAST RESORT, ACCORDING TO
D.P.I., AND ONLY IN CASES OF
IMMINENT DANGER.
BUT WHY IS IT AT ALL?
>> WELL, FOR A COUPLE OF
REASONS.
IF THERE IS IMMINENT DANGER OF
PHYSICAL HARM TO THE STUDENT OR
THE STUDENT'S CLASSMATES OR
ANYONE, THAT IT SOMETIMES,
UNFORTUNATELY, IS NECESSARY.
SO ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT,
WHY USE IT AT ALL, IS THAT IN
THOSE MOMENTS, YOU MIGHT NEED TO
USE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT AND THAT
BALANCING TEST.
SO THE QUESTION IS, IS THE RISK
OF NOT DOING A SECLUSION OR NOT
DOING A RESTRAINT GOING TO CAUSE
MORE HARM THAN DOING A PHYSICAL
RESTRAINT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, A STUDENT ABOUT
TO DART INTO HEAVY TRAFFIC.
NOT RESTRAINING THAT STUDENT
FROM DOING THAT COULD CAUSE MUCH
MORE HARM THAN ACTUALLY
RESTRAINING THE STUDENT.
STUDENTS BEING IN A VIOLENT
PHYSICAL FISTFIGHT, NOT
PHYSICALLY RESTRAINING A STUDENT
WOULD CAUSE MORE HARM THAN
ENGAGING IN PHYSICAL RESTRAINT
SO WHY DO IT, THE ANSWER IS TO
PREVENT FURTHER HARM OR PREVENT
THESE INTENSE, TRAUMATIC,
DANGEROUS SITUATIONS FROM
ESCALATING AND GETTING EVEN
WORSE.
>> ABIGAIL, WHY DO SOME SCHOOLS
USE IT AND OTHERS DON'T?
I MEAN, CAN D.P.I. LEARN FROM
SCHOOLS THAT DON'T ENGAGE IN
SECLUSION AND RESTRAINT ABOUT
WHAT THEY DO INSTEAD?
>> THERE ARE A LOT OF SCHOOLS.
THE MAJORITY OF OUR SCHOOLS,
ACTUALLY, ARE NOT USING THIS AS
A LAST RESORT BECAUSE WE DON'T
HAVE TO GET TO THAT POINT AND
THERE ARE LESSONS THAT WE ARE
LEARNING ABOUT THE STRUCTURES
AND SYSTEMS THAT WE NEED TO PUT
INTO SCHOOLS TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY ARE TRAUMA-INFORMED AND
ABLE TO NEVER REACH THIS LAST
RESORT.
AND ALSO WE'VE LEARNED SO MUCH
ABOUT THE STAFFING THAT'S NEEDED
IN THAT SPACE AND IT'S ONE OF
THE REASONS WE'VE BEEN TALKING
SO MUCH ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE
SURE WE HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH
SUPPORTS WE NEED FOR OUR
STUDENTS IN OUR SCHOOLS.
I'LL JUST REITERATE WHAT TIM
JUST SAID AS WELL, THAT BECAUSE
THIS IS LAST RESORT, EVERYTHING
YOU DO LONG BEFORE IS SO, SO
IMPORTANT.
AND ALSO WHAT YOU DO AFTER.
WE'VE ALSO BEEN LEARNING SO MUCH
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER.
WHAT ARE THESE CONVERSATIONS AND
HOW CAN WE LEARN GOING FORWARD.
>> TIM, WHAT DOES THE D.P.I. DO
WITH THIS DATA?
>> THE LAW DOESN'T SAY WE HAVE
TO PUBLISH THE DATA OR DOESN'T
DIRECT US TO DO ANYTHING WITH
IT, SO WHEN THIS ALL WENT INTO
EFFECT, WE HAVE A WORKGROUP, A
TEAM THAT WORKS ON HOW DO WE
WANT TO ADDRESS WHAT WE REFER TO
AS SORT OF OUTLIER SCHOOL
DISTRICTS -- OR SCHOOLS, EXCUSE
ME, SCHOOLS THAT HAVE A HIGHER
NUMBER OF SECLUSION RESTRAINT SO
WHEN WE GET THOSE IN RESPONSE,
WHEN WE REVIEW THE FAT THAT WE
GET EACH YEAR -- GET THE DATA
THAT WE GET EACHIER, WE CONTACT
THE SCHOOLS THAT HAVE HIGHER
NUMBERS AND WORK WITH THEM TO
IDENTIFY THE ROOT CAUSE OF
WHAT'S CAUSING THOSE HIGHER
NUMBERS AND PROVIDE COACHING,
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, TRAINING
TO HELP REDUCE THOSE NUMBERS.
>> TO THAT END, ABIGAIL, IN A
PERFECT WORLD, WHAT KIND OF
STAFFING AND TRAINING RESOURCES
WOULD BE NEEDED IN SCHOOLS SO
THAT SECLUSION AND RESTRAINT
WERE NOT NECESSARY IN A MAJOR
KIND OF WAY?
>> THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS.
WE KNOW WHAT CAN WORK.
WE KNOW THAT THE TRAUMA-INFORMED
WORK THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AT
D.P.I. TO TRY AND GET THOSE
KINDS OF SYSTEMS AND SUPPORTS
INTO SCHOOLS, WE KNOW THAT MAKES
A DIFFERENCE.
WE KNOW THAT HAVING STUDENT
SERVICES STAFF, LIKE SCHOOL
SOCIAL WORKERS, LIKE SCHOOL
PSYCHOLOGISTS, LIKE TIM IN OUR
SCHOOLS MAKES SUCH A HUGE
DIFFERENCE AND PROFESSIONAL
DEVELOPMENT FOR REALLY EVERY,
EVERY ASPECT OF THE SCHOOL,
EVERY SCHOOL STAFF FROM SCHOOL
NUTRITION ALL THE WAY TO
ADMINISTRATORS.
I WAS A SPECIAL EDUCATION
ASSISTANT AND ALSO A GENERAL
CLASSROOM TEACHER AND ALL OF
THOSE REELS NEED THAT
PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND WE
KNOW THAT WORKS AND THAT IS WHY
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE
FUNDING TO SUPPORT THAT WORK.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ALL RIGHT.
WE WANT TO THANK YOU, ABIGAIL
SWETZ AND TIM PEERENBOOM FOR
JOINING US ON THIS.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBS WISCONSIN
DOT-ORG AND THEN CLICK ON THE
NEWS TAB.
NEXT WEEK, WE BEGIN A SERIES ON
ABORTION, BEGINNING WITH STORIES
OF WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD ONE.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAMME FOR
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JO