>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original
>> You're watching "Here& Now" 2024 election coverage.
couple of decades. >> Another contender enters the
state Supreme Court race to replace Justice Ann Walsh
Bradley. Plus treating addiction in Wisconsin prisons.
>> They're like, you know, you're just a junkie. Like, sit
it out. That's why you're here and you're a criminal.
>> Good evening. I'm Zach Schulz, filling in for Frederica
Freyberg tonight on here and Now prison reform and calls to close
two of the state's maximum security institutions. We look
at LGBTQ safety and pride month and a look ahead to the
Republican National Convention next month. It's "Here& Now" for
June 14th. >> Funding for "Here& Now" is
provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS.
Wisconsin. Waupan and Green Bay have only
increased in the last week, after the warden of Waupan
Correctional and several employees were charged with
felonies in the wake of multiple inmate deaths in the last year.
Dant'e Cottingham is with stop the Torture, a group pushing for
the end of abuse in prisons. Thank you for joining us today.
>> Thank you for having me. >> So what was your first
reaction when you heard that there were arrests and charges
in relation to the warden and the correctional officers in
Waupan? first and foremost, I was
shocked and I was shocked primarily because the conditions
that led to these arrests and to the death of those men are
conditions that's been common practice for a very long time.
>> Does it feel like accountability then, for someone
actually to be charged with that?
And I'm happy that it happened. I would also be extremely happy
to see accountability for some of the other conditions in other
prisons, including green Bay and some of the other prisons around
the state. inmates specifically was ruled a
homicide. But no one will be charged for that. Instead, there
abuse of a resident of a penal facility or misconduct in office
. Do you think someone should be charged with homicide?
Absolutely >> I think the system in itself
should be charged, there are, as I said, the common practice in
the state of Wisconsin, when I heard about the fact that they
inadequate, medication being distributed to the men, that's
common practice. That's something that happened often,
so then not only should the person here be held accountable,
but I think the entire Department of Corrections should
be held accountable as well. >> Now, part of your story is
that you spent time in green Bay Correctional. Correct.
years in prison, I spent 11 years in green Bay. So part of
my frustration is that this has been happening for a very long
time. And a lot of times the public just aren't aware of it.
>> So when you were in green Bay Correctional, how did you view
the guards? Were they overworked, understaffed?
Uncaring? Did you view them in a more morality sense?
>> Green Bay was completed in the 1800s, so it was a very,
very old prison. And the culture in the men and women that worked
there was influenced by that as well. So there was a there was,
without question, a couple staff that was, that was that treated
you humanely. But primarily most of the staff did not.
Unfortunately >> And is that just a product of
the system, like are they trained and brought up that way,
or is that the type of people that are attracted to that job?
>> I think all all of the above and I think part of the reason
is training. I believe that the Wisconsin Department of
Corrections should focus on training people with trauma
informed care approach. >> So members of both political
parties have shown that they're not interested in spending the
hundreds of millions, or perhaps even billion dollars plus it
would take to shut down these prisons and build a new
facility. What in your view, will it take for them to be
forced to do something? >> They did an audit on green
Bay and they found out that 95% of green Bay, the prison itself
is structurally inhabitable, men that live there. It's not
safe for the men and women that work there, there needs to be
some accountability with regards to their lives as well. So I'm,
I'm not sure what it's going to take, but what I, what I am sure
about is that stop the torture Coalition will be there to
highlight all of the things that's wrong with it and to
organize around the state and make sure that that, that, that
we're there to support the men and women that's, that's
currently incarcerated. coalition, have you seen more
movement? >> Have you had more calls in
since this happened? >> I have gotten a lot of calls
since since we began. I just got a call from somebody named Tom
not too long ago, heard about it, reached out and said, they
want to get involved. There's a lot this issue, unfortunately,
is impacting a lot of people. And, there's growing support.
And anyone who's interested in getting involved, please go to
my website Dant'e Cottingham. Com there's a stop the torture
tab, you can you can leave me a message and we can connect
there. >> I know there are federal
lawsuits that are being filed. There's been federal
investigations. The FBI is looking into upon. Do you think
it will be a financial penalty that it makes the state do this,
or will it be a federal lawsuit that shuts something down? Does
it have to go beyond the state, in your opinion, to actually
make change? Well, we'll see what this investigation.
>> We'll see what happens with this investigation. This
investigation is a step in the right direction. It's brand new.
I don't think it's ever happened in the state of Wisconsin. So
hopefully things are moving in the right direction. But again,
the Stop the Stop the Torture Coalition will be there to hold
everybody accountable. And sure that happens, we'll
protest, we'll organize, we'll be there. So and again, just to
say very clearly, we're not anti doc we the, the people that's
been impacted by this issue are simply anti-torture. We're anti
inhumane conditions. So we're willing to work with the doc and
anybody else who values humanity. The values justice and
equality. >> All right. Dant'e Cottingham,
thanks for coming in today. Thank you for having me.
Treatment is a key word in corrections, not only in how
inmates are treated, but whether those struggling with addiction
can get access to treatment. Here in now. Reporter Aditi
Debnath and PBS Wisconsin are collaborating with Wisconsin
project, asking people what issues matter to them this
election season. This is the first story in that series.
>> Some people don't have anybody, and on your release
day, you get your boxes and you are put out on the doorstep.
Like if you have a place to go or not.
released from Wisconsin prisons in 2023. That's roughly 550
every month for those with substance use disorders. That
reentry period is critical. And so at the time of reentry, we
know that rates of returning to use to substance use are very
high. That in combination with someone having now really no
tolerance, puts them at super high risk for having an overdose
if they return to use. Doctor Elizabeth Salisbury Afshar is a
public health expert at UW-Madison. She treats patients
with substance use disorders at UW Behavioral Health and
Recovery Clinic. If you compare rates of overdose in Wisconsin
to national numbers, we are definitely one of the states
with higher overdose rates. >> I was naive to a lot of that.
>> Amanda Church is a care provider at an assisted living
facility in Monroe County, and a mother of two. She was released
from the Techeetah prison in Fond du Lac in 2022 for drug
related offenses. >> Oh, just try this. You know
it's not going to hurt you. You'll never get addicted. And
you believe that as a kid like that, you have the willpower to
not get stuck using those drugs. And it goes downhill from there
and fast. >> Less than 10% of people that
complete the Wisconsin Department of Corrections
substance use treatment program are re-incarcerated during their
first year of release, but there's a massive wait list for
the program. Alicia Krause is the director of program services
for the Doc's adult prisons. >> We understand that there's a
large number of our population that needs assistance in working
through their substance use disorders.
>> Roughly 845 people in the doc's facilities are currently
enrolled in a substance use disorder treatment program, yet
more than 11,000 people are on the waitlist.
>> And we would like to be able to serve every single person
that we come into contact with at the highest level that they
need in terms of intervention and more research, more
resources would allow us to do that in the current state
budget. fund Evers proposal for expanded
substance use disorder programing. That includes things
like mental health, education and early release opportunities.
Detoxing abruptly in prison can be dangerous and ineffective in
the long term. >> You'd have the chills and
then you'd be high. And, you couldn't get comfortable
throwing up the race thoughts because you're just starting to
get your feelings back and like, you instantly go into that
regret and shame and guilt and all that medication for opioid
use disorder is one treatment that the doc is trying to make
more accessible. >> Doctor Salisbury Afshar
explains a couple of reasons why medications like methadone work
the first is we know these medications save lives. They are
first line treatments. >> We're piloting a medication
assisted treatment program at one of our facilities in
Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Secure Detention Facility, with plans
already rolling out to expand that to other sites within the
division. people are incarcerated, it is
the legal responsibility of the jail or the prison. Whatever
environment someone is in to provide adequate health care. In
the current budget, the legislature provided more than
$4.6 million to expand access to medication for opioid use
disorder in prisons. That's different from the rejected
proposal, which sought to expand programing. The third reason, I
would say is I just think this is morally imperative, morally
imperative, she says. Because this medication that's not
widely available in prisons can prevent overdose deaths and
reduce continued drug use and reincarceration rates. Church
says that she received medications meant to treat some
of her withdrawal symptoms, but not her substance use disorder.
>> They don't have no sympathy for that. They're like, you
know, you're just a junkie like, sit it out. That's why you're
here and you're a criminal. And a lot of the employees aren't
there to help you. >> Experts say people in
recovery from substance use need continued support, safety and
community to continue their recovery.
the other people that are going through the same thing as you,
our peers. >> Most of them feel like nobody
cares. Nobody understands. support specialist at Just Dane,
a nonprofit that supports people affected by incarceration.
addiction and you've been to prison for 15 years and now
you're doing this, I want to know how you did that. He says
his own path to recovery could have started earlier if he'd had
someone to relate to. I want to know how you got here because
I've been trying to do this for 20 years, and I've been failing
for 20 years. accessible as a lifeline to
people who are in crisis and want to use again.
>> I just let them know, like, hey, before you make that
decision, call me, please. And I've had individuals call me
like, hey, you know, I'm in a bad spot. I, I want to use I,
you know, this isn't going right. And I'm like, well, where
are you? Let's let's talk for Schimel.
recovery is an act of choice to make every day.
>> It's hard to get out of that unless like something
dramatically changes your life and getting caught was probably
the best thing that happened to me. You're your contribution to
this community is important, but way more important than
addiction or incarceration. >> For "Here& Now" I'm Aditi
Debnath. >> June is Pride Month, a
celebration of the culture of the LGBTQ community meant to
raise awareness and acceptance despite broader acceptance of
LGBTQ lifestyles in society. There is a wave of conservative
backlash targeting transgender people, specifically Reiko Ramos
is the anti-violence director for Diverse and Resilient, the
state's largest organization well-being, and safety of LGBTQ
residents in Wisconsin. Thanks for joining us today.
>> Hi. Thank you for having me. >> Well, what do you see as the
main threats to the safety and well-being of the LGBTQ
community? >> I think for the LGBTQ
community, there are. So it's constant. And, we are facing
legislative, threats, both across the country and in our
own state, and much of what my program focuses on is also the
interpersonal violence that happens and the hate based
violence that happens against our community, so the violence
that we experience is happening on many levels.
>> We've seen the legislation targeting transgender people,
things and other things like drag shows, book bans, what is
the overall effect on the mental health and then the physical
health of people in the community, it certainly has a
mental health, impact and particularly on trans youth, we
know that affirming someone's gender, using the correct
pronouns and creating safe spaces where people belong, has
a positive impact on, LGBT Q's mental health and well-being,
and, and we also have the evidence that shows that the
effects of, stigma and discrimination on LGBTQ people
has lasting effects on our well-being as well.
>> Is there a direct connection between passing laws or even
introducing laws, and that that mental aspect and then the
physical violence of people then feeling emboldened to take
physical action against others? >> Yes, I think there is a
direct connection, people feel safer, and have a greater sense
of belonging when we have those protections in place for LGBTQ
people, and I can also tell you that something we've seen on our
side of the work is that, when there is something big in the
news, or some something legislative of whether that's
positive or negative coming down, but will impact the LGBTQ
community that, we often see escalated. Instances of violence
within our community, and our, our warm line activity and goes
up, because folks are safety planning, around their
individual safety and their day to day lives.
>> We saw with abortion rights that a lot of people felt
something like Roe v Wade, for example, was settled law. And
then the Supreme Court changed that. Court decisions that
legalized gay marriage and other rights are much more recent. Is
there a fear that those could be rolled back and things might
radically change on the ground? >> That fear is, definitely a
sentiment that I've heard in my community, and that's one of the
reasons why it's important that we continue to keep advocating
for safety and protection for LGBTQ folks, there's a great
deal of we're living in a time of a lot of fear and
uncertainty, especially we, you know, in the context of we're in
a presidential election year, there's a lot that can change,
in a relatively short amount of time.
minute left. Give me your sense of what should people be taking
away from something like Pride Month and having the governor
fly the flag above the state capitol? What does that mean?
Symbolically Bewley. >> So one, I want people to
really celebrate and enjoy Pride Month, our our pride and joy is
radical and so important when especially when people are
trying to erase us, and then also remember that pride is one
month out of the year, but let's, let's celebrate, year
round and support LGBTQ people 13 months out of the year.
Right? you for your time today. Thank
you. In state news, the Wisconsin Supreme Court
suspended a lawyer for Donald Trump's campaign from his spot
on the Judicial Conduct Advisory Committee. Jim Troupis was a
lawyer for the Trump campaign in 2020, and was a key figure in
the conspiracy to get fake electors to claim Wisconsin's
electoral votes for Trump. Troupis and two others were
recently charged by Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul for
forgery in their roles in the plot. Troupis was reappointed to
the Judicial Committee in 2023 by the Wisconsin Supreme Court
when it was still controlled by conservatives, liberals took A43
majority last year with the election of Janet Protasiewicz.
However, control of the court in the future will be determined by
an election next April for the seat of retiring Liberal Justice
Ann Walsh. Bradley. This week, Dane County Judge Susan Crawford
announced she is officially running for the court and was
immediately endorsed by liberals on the court. Crawford joins
former Republican Attorney general and current Waukesha
County Judge Brad Schimel, who previously announced he was in
the race. Sticking with election news, the Wisconsin Elections
Commission chose attorney Ann Jacobs as its chairperson this
week. Jacobs, a Democrat, last held this role back during the
presidential election of 2020. The vote to elect her as chair
was unanimous, and in Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Common Council
approved Paulina Gutierrez to lead the city's election
commission. Speaking of Milwaukee, we are just one month
away from the city hosting the Republican National Convention
and here to discuss all of the election optics, our political
analyst Scot Ross and Bill McCoshen. Thank you, gentlemen,
for your time today. Great to be here. So let's start with the
biggest X factor in this election, Donald Trump bill.
Yesterday it's reported he told the House GOP conference that
Milwaukee was, quote, a horrible city. Since then, we've seen 100
different explanations of what he meant. Does it even matter at
this point if he says something like that?
>> Well, first of all, I want to say I love Milwaukee. I can't
wait to show it off to 50,000 Republicans from around the
country. There's a lot to do in Milwaukee. Great restaurants,
brewers. I mean, it's a great city. They've got some
challenges. Sure. People who are in the conference yesterday said
that isn't exactly what he said. The president himself has said
he was talking about crime and election integrity. You know, my
advice to the Trump campaign would be be very precise in your
language from this point forward. He's never going to get
the benefit of the doubt. We know that sometimes his words
are taken out of context. The congressmen who were in there
from Wisconsin all said that isn't what he said. So I'll take
him at his word that he did not say that. But I think he's going
to love Milwaukee when he gets here.
bashing Milwaukee forever. So is this really out of context for
them to say it's a horrible city?
>> Absolutely not. And you know, again, we saw yesterday the
chaos that results from Donald Trump owning the Republican
Party. And you saw, I think, seven different stories from the
six Republican members of Congress as to why they all, you
know, why they all think Milwaukee is a horrible city.
And I think it's just going to play terribly. I think it's, you
know, again, I think it's a sign of what's going to happen
because as we get closer to the election, Donald Trump's tour
of, you know, revenge, retribution, Bryan and doing
whatever he can to stay out of prison is going to involve more
of these incidents, I think. And Republicans then having to
scramble to answer, let's not forget he's going to be in
Racine on Tuesday of next week. >> So he'll have an opportunity
to answer this directly. And my hope is that he comes to
Wisconsin and tells all voters and why he wants to win here.
>> So you said the magic word prison. July 11th is the date in
which he is set to be sentenced in New York for criminal
convictions. Do you think he's accepting the nomination from
Wisconsin, or is he in a jail cell? Home confinement? What's
your prediction? the prosecution, so I can't tell
you where he'll be for it. But I can tell you this, you know,
being sentenced for 34 felonies related to a hush money that you
were paying, you know, for an affair for, you know, while your
third wife was having your fifth kid, I don't think is a message
that Trump wants to wants to go forward with. The problem is, is
that when he tries to distract from it, he does things like
Horrible city. You know, it just keeps getting worse. And we're
not even talking about the issues abortion, health care,
infrastructure, all those sorts of things which the Republicans
are on the wrong side of. >> Does it matter if Trump's
here? mean, the way he does
conventions, he's on the stage every night. That's very unusual
in our lifetime to see that usually the final night where
the nominee gives the big speech, I expect him to be here.
I expect him to be on the stage in some shape or fashion every
single night. And again, I'm looking forward to showcasing
Milwaukee. I think he's going to find it to be an unbelievably
cool city with a lot of opportunity to grow.
>> So I want to switch to Wisconsin elections. We're going
to have new maps this fall. Democrats are contesting every
possible race that they can get out there. Are we going to see
something like 2016 where Ron Johnson ran ahead of Trump?
Where are there going to be distance between the Assembly
and the Senate? Republicans down ballot versus Trump up ballot,
or how do they affect each other?
guess is Tammy Baldwin will run ahead of Joe Biden here in the
state of Wisconsin. Ron Johnson did that with Donald Trump in
2016. It's not unusual for the candidate to who's more
relatable here locally to do better and how that plays down
ballot. What we knew from 2016 and 2020 was Republican
candidates for the legislature did better than the top of the
ticket across the state. I expect that to continue. We do
have new boundaries this time around, all the races will be
more competitive. My guess is Democrats will pick up seats in
both houses of the legislature. I don't think they're going to
have an opportunity to get a majority, because the top of the
ticket is too close. That's where things do come into play.
As it relates to the top of the ticket. If Biden were to run
away with Wisconsin, could Democrats get one house?
Probably. He's not going to run away with Wisconsin.
>> Does Biden need Democrats down ballot to help him win
statewide? of bouillabaisse together to
what brings victory to Joe Biden and to Tammy Baldwin. And I
think Bill was right. You know, we are going to pick up seats.
Democrats are going to pick up seats in the in the Senate and
the Assembly. But what I think is going to happen is you have a
you have a guy at the top of the ticket, Donald Trump, who has to
win Wisconsin to win the presidency. And I think he has
put himself out of running for winning Wisconsin Democrats have
resources. The Democratic Party is all over the place. I think
they've got 46 coordinated campaign offices. They've hired
they outraised the Republicans 15 to 1, in terms of
fundraising. And, you know, over and over and over again,
Democrats are right on the issues. I think it's important
that Democrats are going to have competitive races in a lot of
these areas. So it will drive out more turnout. Whether or not
that affects the top of the ticket, I don't know, because
the money is going to be spent at the top of the ticket. To
reinforce those messages again about abortion and health care
and infrastructure. >> I agree with Scott. The
Democrats will have a significant cash advantage from
top to bottom and money is a factor. There's no question
about that. Organizationally I think will be about even and on
the message, I think it's an advantage for Republicans this
cycle. All right. >> A few seconds for each of
you. What are you watching the next four weeks in the run up to
Milwaukee? >> I'm watching the most viewed
presidential debate in history, a week from now or two weeks
from now, between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, the first
presidential debate in history before national nominating
see how that plays out. And does it impact the race, because we
know all the court cases to date have not shook the numbers. What
about you? >> I'm going to be watching the
issues, be watching the way Democrats articulate the
Republicans offer and what they offer. And I think, again, on
those Democrats win. >> Do you think there will be a
debate? Trump is going to bail. I think
Trump's going to bail on it. >> Do you think there will be a
debate? We're going to be watching one.
>> Will there be a second debate? No All right. Well thank
you both. We will see you soon. And thank you for your coming
today. And finally, a programing note. PBS Wisconsin will be on
the ground at both the RNC in Milwaukee and the DNC in Chicago
in August. Each night during the convention, we'll have a short
broadcast to give you the latest in Wisconsin news, and be sure
to tune in that Friday when here and Now expands to a special one
hour program to break down the events of the week. And each day
that week, you can find us online for a live webcast from
the convention, where I'll be joined by Bill McCoshen and Scot
Ross, unbound by our usual time constraints. And hopefully we'll
have a lot more exciting things to be talking about each and
every day. For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin,
visit our website at PBS Wisconsin. Org and click on the
news tab to see all of our election coverage. Visit
Wisconsin Vote.org. That is our program for tonight. I'm Zac
Schultz have a great weekend!
>> Funding for here and Now is provided by the Focus Fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS.