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and starts of negotiations between UW-Madison protesters
another presidential campaign visit to Wisconsin this week
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>> I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on "Here& Now" campus
protesters in UW-Madison administration reach a chord. We
look at the long term impacts of the protesters message. The
Ho-Chunk nation votes to decriminalize marijuana. We
speak with their attorney general, how services for
survivors of domestic and sexual violence will undergo deep
funding cuts, and the lethal consequences behind the
while in police custody. It's "Here& Now" for May 10th.
>> Funding for here and Now is provided by the Focus Fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS. Wisconsin.
campus are coming down. Students for Justice in Palestine agreed
to clear the protest encampment, not disrupt graduation
ceremonies this weekend and not set up tents again. In an
agreement with the UW-Madison administration. For its part,
the administration will set up a meeting between protesters, the
UW Foundation and Alumni Association to discuss how the
university's endowment is demands was for the university
to divest of investments with Israel. We want justice, also
help UW divest now. When negotiations broke down between
protesters and the university midweek, about 200 people
rallied and voiced their disappointment over the
Chancellor, saying she lacked authority to divest of
investments with Israel. But in following days talks resumed,
with the university eager to end the encampment, which was agreed
to Friday just ahead of graduation ceremonies. What are
the implications of these protests at the university
campus and campuses across the country? UW-Madison journalism
professor Douglas McLeod is an expert on social protest and
media coverage of it. He joins us now. Thanks very much for
being here. >> Thank you.
produced messages that support the status quo when covering
social protest. Is coverage of these protests across the
country and here supporting the status quo?
>> For the most part, yes. Most of the research that we've been
doing over 35 years has looked at sort of mainstream media
coverage in newspapers and then sort of the three minute news
packages that are produced to cover social protests. And we
found that just a very common pattern of coverage that sort of
typifies a lot of different kinds of protest. We've looked
at left wing protesters, right wing protesters, we've looked at
all sorts of different kinds of antiwar, anti-globalization,
Asian protests, Black Lives Matter protests, and so we've
discovered there's this sort of common pattern when it comes to
sort of mainstream news reports. >> So in this case, what even is
the status quo potentially being hewed to?
>> So generally speaking, the status quo would refer to sort
of the policies and procedures of the institutions of power,
government or corporations, who are often the chosen target of
protesters. But as part of this protest paradigm coverage, their
chosen enemy is often ignored and instead the focus is on the
actions of the protest, and it's framed as kind of police versus
protesters. And in that sense, the coverage tends to insulate
the institution, like government or corporations, from, from
critical coverage of some of their policies and, and
positions that the protesters would like to raise.
>> And so in your mind, as, as an expert researcher in this
field, what is the danger to kind of, civic understanding if
it's really kind of one sided? >> Well, I mean, I think to some
degree you can kind of see some of the dangers right now in the
current protests. There's been a lot of attention on police
actions on campuses around the country, a lot of attention to
encampments being removed, a lot of attention to clashes between
protesters and counter protesters, but not much
mainstream news coverage is really kind of explaining, hey,
what's this protest all about? What's going on in Gaza? And how
are the protesters trying to effect change when it comes to
that particular issue? >> Speaking of kind of the
police movements around these protesters as a as a faculty
member on this campus, what was your reaction when the police
moved in on the UW-Madison encampment?
>> The concerns are that some of their actions against faculty
and students are sometimes more aggressive than they might need
to be. And I've heard some charges, and I don't know
whether they're validated or not that, on this campus and
elsewhere, some of the more sort of aggressive measures taken by
police officers are often addressed, directed at
minorities as, students and international students.
pro-Palestinian protest when some Jewish students express
feeling marginalized or worse, and others feel they're
experiencing Islamophobia like kind of how complicated when
passions around enduring conflict and bloodshed in the
Middle East come to campus. >> Yeah. I mean, this is about
as as complicated as you get in terms of protests. First, you
start with the issue in Gaza, and it's not a simple solution.
It's not a case of this side being right and this side being
wrong. It's very, very complicated. Number one. Number
two, the protests are taking place right here, and they're
sort of directed more at things like university investments.
That's kind of a complicated issue. They're more indirectly
connected in some cases to the protest events that are going on
in the Middle East and to some degree, you know, in the
coverage of this protests that sort of connection to these
issues to some degree gets lost. Right.
protests move presidential policy on Israel?
>> Well, with all the different factors that are trying to shift
presidential policy, it's hard to trace it to exactly what is
driving what, we know that protest can have a big impact.
We don't have to go far back into our own history to the
civil rights movement, say, in the 1950s and 60s to see the
profound impact that that kind of social protest and
demonstrations had on affecting public policy. We know that is
the case there. I think history is going to have to take a look
at this particular case to see, to what extent the protesters
themselves has had an impact. >> Yeah. All right. Professor
McCleod, thanks very much. >> Thank you very much.
>> Ho-Chunk nation's legislature moved to decriminalize cannabis
on its tribal lands. It's a move, they say, that doesn't
fully legalize marijuana. Still, it raises legal questions as the
drug is still illegal federally and in Wisconsin. Joining us to
address these questions is the Ho-Chunk Nation Attorney General
William Gardner. And thanks very much for being here.
>> Thanks for inviting me. >> Tell me why did the Ho-Chunk
vote to decriminalize cannabis? >> It has been in the. Process
of considerations by the Ho-Chunk nation since 2015. In
2015, the General Council got together and made a request that
the legislature consider and research moving into, the
marijuana field in the sense of what can they do for economic
expansion, at that point in time , there was a start of a process
, and then the commitment was made that they would continue to
do the research. And in an effort to put the nation in the
best possible position once and if any form of legalization
occurred, they moved forward with that effort, which has been
continuing over the years with decriminalizing, marijuana
within the Ho-Chunk nation statutes more than likely to
begin, preparing for the potential of the change of, the
marijuana rules under the Controlled Substance Act from a
schedule one to a schedule three. Drug. So, it's all been
positioning, and this is, for the most part, groundwork.
>> How does decriminalizing cannabis on tribal lands Square
with state and federal law under which it remains illegal?
>> The decriminalized ation, as you may know, or as others may
not know, basically removes the potential for a, crime violation
or a conviction of a crime from somebody who may be arrested or
charged with a crime under the current, codes, all of the all
of the illegalities of using marijuana are still in effect
throughout the state of Wisconsin, as well as, through
the Ho-Chunk lands. But if the tribal member is, in possession
of an amount of marijuana on tribal lands, the
decriminalization affects that individual by the tribal police,
not, filing a criminal charge against that individual. And
they wouldn't have to. Look, I should say, look forward to his
wrong word, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting a
criminal record that might affect education or housing
applications or things of the sort. So that's something that,
we see as, a benefit to a tribal members, but it is not in any
way, bumping shoulders against the legality. We're fully aware
of that, marijuana is still illegal.
vote to decriminalize will kind of help prod the state of
Wisconsin to move in the same direction? I know that there are
some tribes that are getting themselves together to lobby, in
order to move forward. >> But, I think that, it's going
to be a continuing effort to, to try and get something done,
perhaps in the medical marijuana field, but I'm not certain.
>> It's just that, is it the sense among the tribal nation
that decriminalizing cannabis could potentially help reduce
opioid use, the abuse of which is a problem statewide and for
tribal nations? >> I think there's a sense
generally, across the nation, perhaps I won't speak for other
tribes, but there has been discussion here regarding,
reports that those states that have opened up with,
legalization of marijuana are beginning to find that the
opioid use, that they had had at the start of their opening up is
reducing and dropping down, there's also some additional,
studies that are beginning to surface, dealing with the
effects of medicinal marijuana, and dealing with various health
aspects, which also include opioid addiction, and things of
that nature. So we're watching it. It's too early to tell.
There are not a lot of studies because as you may know, there
are not a lot of people who could do studies in this area
considering the illegality across the nation. Yeah well, we
leave it there and we will watch this as it progresses.
>> Attorney General William Gardner, thanks very much.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> A 70% drop in federal funding
to states to help victims of crime has advocates warning of
dire consequences. The grants to states for victim services are
funded through federal fines and fees paid by people convicted of
a crime, but the federal fund has sharply declined, leaving
Wisconsin's annual funding expected to go from more than
$44 million to roughly 13 million. The Wausau
organization, called the Women's Community, whose services help
thousands of victims of domestic abuse, sexual assault and human
trafficking, fears the loss of services. Its executive
director, Jane Graham Jennings, is here, and thanks very much
for being here. >> Thank you. I'm happy to be
here. about how the drop in grant
funds will affect your services? >> Well, you know, the thing
about serving victims of abuse, is it's not just one community.
So these the drop in funds will definitely impact the marathon
County, which is where we serve. And the Wausau community. But it
will impact every community in our state because all of the
programs that are currently funded will see a significant fe
women's community in particular, and the other thing that is,
makes a little bit difficult for us to plan is we won't actually
know the total decrease that we get until August or September,
just the way the grant process works. So we won't really know.
In the best case scenario, we will be losing about $234,000.
And that's just for the women's community.
>> How do you even weather such a loss?
>> We've been trying to plan for it for a while. The, the state
administrators have been exceptional in trying to keep us
informed and planning for a while, this problem would have
happened, a few years ago, except there were some Arpa
dollars that the state was able to put in to plug the gap so
that kept us operating and being able to keep our services
operational for an additional two years. But that money is
going away. So now we're going to see those cuts. So our board
has been planning we've been talking about it. We have some
funds for Rainy Day, and then we just search for other dollars.
But again, we don't know exactly how much that is going to be, so
as soon as we know, then we're going to be rolling out all of
our plans. services and what are some
examples of what Community of Women offers?
>> So we work with anyone who has been a victim of domestic
violence, sexual assault, Adults, children, men, women,
anyone who has been impacted. Services include a number of
things. One thing that people are most familiar with is our
shelter service, and that's a place where people who are in
violent situations trying to flee, to move into safe housing
can stay with us for a short time in an emergency shelter,
that's going to be impacted drastically by the funding cuts,
we provide ongoing supportive advocacy because when people
have been harmed by someone they love, which is most often what's
happening in sexual assault, and is the case of what's happening
in domestic violence, it's really a traumatic experience.
And people are trying to figure out how to survive and how to
rebuild their lives. No one wants to come to services like
the women's community, because if you need our services,
something really bad has happened to you or someone you
love, so people come to us as a last resort and we want to be
there to help rebuild them. They come to us feeling broken and
ashamed and judged, and that no one believes them or supports
them. And we want to help them rebuild that spirit, really,
their soul has been crushed by the trauma that they've
experienced, and we just try to help rebuild that, we often use
the analogy of a butterfly. People come to us and they feel
like they're the squishy, ugly caterpillar that people just
want to step on, and then they go into their cocoon and in a
short time, they emerge. Beautiful and free. And that's
the process we get to see when people come to us broken, and
they leave us strong at the broken places.
>> Is domestic and sexual violence against women on the
rise? most recent in the state of
Wisconsin and domestic abuse. Wisconsin does a domestic
violence related homicide report, and the last one that
was complete was in 2022. And 96 people in Wisconsin lost their
lives due to domestic violence. Unfortunately, we are one of the
top ten states in the nation that has the highest level of
domestic related homicides in the country. So this is not
something that we are proud of, and we're working really hard to
figure out how we can make an impact, but there's still, so
much blaming that is done, victims are still blamed for so
much of it. People ask questions about victims behavior. Why do
victims stay in abusive relationships instead of really
asking the question, why does someone who claims to love harm
the person they claim to love? There's just not an incentive
for people to behave better. We need people to stop being
harmful. >> We have many more questions,
but we leave it there. Jane Graham Jennings, thank you very
much. Thanks for your work. Thank you. An investigation by
the AP and PBS frontline revealed police and medics using
injected sedatives to de-escalate people who have been
deemed to have something called excited delirium.
>> We've now come to understand that excited delirium is a
deeply flawed concept in many cases, the definition of excited
delirium is built on racial stereotypes and probably more
fundamentally, excited. Delirium was a concept that, in many of
these cases, served to shift the focus from the actions of the
first responders. Restraint or chemical sedation by the police
or by EMS to the individual for using methamphetamine, for
engaging in criminal activity, for, in some cases, suffering
from mental health emergencies. >> The use of medications is
part of an excited delirium protocol in some departments to
render the person compliant. This is often in combination
with stun guns and pinning subjects face down, but the
combination can be fatal. It happened to a man in Eau Claire
County, as described in the investigative reporting excited
high pain tolerance and superhuman strength, is a
controversial and disputed diagnosis and should not be used
to justify use of force and medication given. That's
according to our next guest psychiatrist, Doctor Julie Owen
from the Medical College of Wisconsin. And doctor, thanks
for joining us. >> Why do you say that excited
delirium is a disputed diagnosis .
to be described in the 1980s, and that was in conjunction with
, a rising cocaine use and there are very few, professional
medical organizations that delirium as a diagnosis. And
without that recognition and without that consensus of the
medical community, there's been a lack of true diagnostic
criteria that folks agree on, when using this term, which has
called its use into dispute. >> So if it's if it's not
excited delirium, what are police and first responders and
medics responding to in the field that that then have them
using these injected sedatives. >> So oftentimes, as an
individual who might be described as displaying features
of, what has been come to known as be known as excited delirium,
they will look extremely agitated and, they will
potentially be behaving in a bizarre manner, the literature
that has looked at this, syndrome has described, things
like increased pain tolerance, the individual looking sweaty,
the individual breathing rapidly. An individual who looks
like they're they don't really get tired despite a lot of
physical exertion. And sometimes, the literature also
describes individuals who are not necessarily complying with
law enforcement official orders. And or being inappropriately
clothed in your research, what did you find about the outsized
diagnosis of this excited delirium in black or brown
police subjects? Usually there's a, a skewing of the use of this
term with, young men and young men of color, and young men of
color, who probably at a later phase of examination, are found
to be utilizing some sort of, what we call sympathomimetic or
a stimulant like substance. >> So the front line
investigation is narrowed in on the use of injected drugs like
ketamine by police and medics. What's your view of that? Use
>> I work in the hospital setting. In the hospital
setting, if an individual presents with agitated Bryan,
typically the best accepted practice is as a physician to
evaluate that person and try to determine what is the most
likely cause of that person's agitation. And medications are
used as a tool then to treat and relieve that person of that
agitated state. So the use of medications is in and of
themselves, is not necessarily problematic. It's the use of a
medication with oftentimes very incomplete data and with
differing protocols, and dosing. And again, sort of starting with
that, not truly a medical diagnostic term, to sort of
drive the intervention or the choice of the intervention that
seems to be problematic in these cases.
>> How troubling is it to you that excited delirium might be
used as a justification for use of force or injections of
ketamine? >> It is troubling, and again, I
think, you know, as a physician and, and as a physician who
practices in solely emergent or acute settings, this sort of
case is hard for somebody like myself, to try to get to the
bottom of and when you have folks who don't have the same
amount of clinical training, sort of throwing out terms that
sound like diagnoses to then drive interventions, with
questionable safety involved and, and of course, when these
interventions result in lethal outcomes, when really that's
probably not necessary. That is disturbing.
>> You say that it is imperative to find consensus bias among
medical professionals around the diagnosis of excited delirium.
Has that yet been found? That consensus? No And are more
people like yourself talking about it?
again, my practice clinically, is working shoulder to shoulder
with emergency medicine physicians and that sort of
cross specialty collaboration, and, collaboration of expertise
in this space. I think that's what's necessary to really, find
again, consensus. But a real clear sense of what it is that
we're trying to accomplish with utilizing terms like this or
trying to catch summarize clinical presentations like
this. Doctor. Julie Owen, thanks very
much. Thank you. For more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin. Org and then
click on the news tab. That's our program for
tonight I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a good
weekend.
>> Funding for Here and Now is provided by the focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS.