>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION. >> YOU'RE WATCHING "HERE AND
NOW" 2024 ELECTION COVERAGE. >> VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS
VISITS WESTERN WISCONSIN PROMOTING ABORTION RIGHTS AND
ANNOUNCING TWO NEW FEDERAL RULES FOR NURSING HOMES.
AND A SEASONED DEMOCRATIC THROWS HIS HAT IN THE RING FOR THE
FIRST CONGRESSIONAL, A DISTRICT THAT'S BEEN RED SINCE HE LAST
HELD THAT VERY SAME SEAT. GOOD EVENING.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FILLING IN FOR FREDERICA FREYBERG.
AT&T ON "HERE AND NOW," FIRST CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICAN
INCUMBENT, BRYAN STEIL, AND HIS DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER, PETER
BARCA, JOINING US. WHAT THE NEW RULES FOR
FEDERALLY-REGULATED NURSING CAREGIVERS AND RESIDENTS.
FINALLY, AN ECONOMIC THINK TANK SAYS THE UW-MADISON IS IN
DECLINE. IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR APRIL
26th. PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
>> REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS MANAGED TO COME
TOGETHER THIS WEEK TO PASS A $95
BILLION FOREIGN AID PACKAGE. THE BILL WAS STALLED FOR MONTHS
IN THE HOUSE UNTIL SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON AGREED TO BREAK THE
FUNDING INTO FOUR SEPARATE BILLS AND LET MEMBERS VOTE UP OR DOWN
ON EACH MEASURE AND THEN REPACKAGE THEM AND SEND ONE BILL
OVER TO THE SENATE. THE MEASURE INCLUDES 60 BILLION
TO UKRAINE FOR THEIR WAR AGAINST RUSSIA, 26 BILLION TO ISRAEL FOR
DEFENSE, 8 BILLION FOR TAIWAN AND A FOURTH BILL THAT GIVES THE
SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY, TIKTOK, NINE MONTHS TO DIVEST FROM ITS
CHINESE PARENT COMPANY. PRESIDENT BIDEN SIGNED THE BILL
INTO LAW ON WEDNESDAY. JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT
THIS BILL IS REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN BRYAN STEIL, WHO
JOINS US NOW. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON. >> YOU VOTED "YES" ON AID TO
TAIWAN AND ISRAEL AND FOR BREAKING UP TIKTOK, BUT YOU
VOTED NO ON AID TO UKRAINE. CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH YOUR
DECISION SPECIFICALLY REGARDING UKRAINE AND ISRAEL?
>> FROM A GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN ONE OF THE
MORE DANGEROUS POSITIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN IN IN GENERATIONS.
TYRANTS ARE TEMPTED WHEN THEY SENSE WEAKNESS AND DYSFUNCTION.
WE'VE SEEN THAT FROM A FOREIGN POLICY PERSPECTIVE FROM THE
UNITED STATES. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE
MAKE SURE WE'RE STANDING WITH OUR DEMOCRATIC ALLIES.
SO AS WE LOOK AT THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKING SURE WE'RE FUNDING
ISRAEL SO THAT THEY CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM THE TERRORIST
ATTACK FROM HAMAS, BUT ALSO FROM OTHER IRANIAN PROXIES, I THINK
THAT BILL WAS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
TAIWAN AND IN PARTICULAR THE U.S. NAVAL FLEET, THE RESOURCES
THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO CONFRONT AND PREVENT CHINA FROM MOVING IN
AGAINST TAIWAN. I THINK THAT'S A POSITIVE MOVE.
THE BROADER NATIONAL SECURITY BILL BANNING TIKTOK OR FORCING
ITS SALE AS WELL AS MY BILL THAT ADDRESSED SOME OF THE TERRORISM
FINANCING THAT WE CONTINUE TO SEE FROM REA IRAN WAS APPROPRIA.
I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE TO SEND WEAPONS TO UKRAINE TO
ENABLE THEM TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
FUNDING THAT WASN'T PAID FOR. WHEN WE SEE THIS VOLUME OF
FUNDING, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GO IN AND WE
ARE VERY CAREFUL IN THE USE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS AS IT RELATES
TO FOREIGN AID. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S $300
MILLION IN THE BILL TO ADDRESS NARCOTICS TRAFFICKING, AN
IMPORTANT TOPIC, BUT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING
AT WAYS TO BE ABLE TO PAY FOR THAT PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.
OVERALL, THE ENTIRE PACKAGE WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AND I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT THAT WE CONTINUE TO STAND WITH OUR DEMOCRATIC ALLIES
AGAINST TYRANTS WHO ARE ON THE MOVE ACROSS THE GLOBE.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT HOW ISRAEL IS CONDUCTING
THEIR MILITARY OPERATIONS IN GAZA?
THAT THE HAMAS CONTINUES TO HOLD HOSTAGES THAT ONLY ISRAELI
HOSTAGES, BUT U.S. CITIZENS HOSTAGES.
THIS ENTIRE CONFLICT COULD BE ENDED TOMORROW IF HAMAS
SURRENDERS AND RELEASES THE HOSTAGES.
THAT ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.
ISRAEL IS CONTINUING TO CONDUCT OPERATIONS AGAINST THE
TERRORISTS, THEY CONTINUE TO HOLD BOTH ISRAELI AS WELL AS
U.S. HOSTAGES. >> LOOKING AHEAD TO THE FALL,
DEMOCRAT PETER BARCA RECENTLY ANNOUNCED HE'S RUNNING AGAINST
YOU IN THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL. WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE MAIN
DYNAMICS THAT WILL SHAPE THE ELECTION FISCAL FALL?
>> I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A CONVERSATION ON THE ISSUES AND
POLICY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ME AND MY OPPONENTS ARE PRETTY
SIGNIFICANT. DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.
ULTIMATELY SELECT. IF WE LOOK AT BARCA'S 40-YEAR
HISTORY, YOU SEE A SERIES OF VOTES THAT ARE OUT OF LINE WITH
THE VOTERS OF WISCONSIN. WHEN HE WAS THE DEMOCRATIC
MINORITY LEADER IN THE STATE HOUSE IN MADISON, HE VOTED TO
PROTECT SANCTUARY CITIES. I THINK IN CONTRAST, WE SHOULD
BE WORKING TO SECURE THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER.
THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE UNSECURED BORDER ARE VERY
SIGNIFICANT IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.
IT'S NOT ONLY FENTANYL THAT'S FLOWING IN, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW
MANY MOMS AND DADS THAT I'VE TALKED TO THAT HAVE LOST A LOVED
ONE TO FENTANYL, BUT IT'S ALSO CHALLENGES IN WHITEWATER, CITY
OF 15,000, WHERE THE CHIEF HAS RECOGNIZED THERE'S ROUGHLY A
THOUSAND MIGRANTS THAT HAS MOVED IN FROM NICARAGUA AND VENEZUELA.
AND SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A STARK POLICY CONTRAST BETWEEN
KNEE AND MY OPPONENT. I THINK THAT'S A HEALTHY
CONVERSATION TO HAVE WITH FOLKS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND ACROSS
WISCONSIN OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT 200 DAYS.
>> YOU MENTIONED THE BORDER AND DRUGS.
ORIGINALLY THIS FOREIGN AID PACKAGE INCLUDED MONEY FOR
BORDER SECURITY, BUT IT WAS DONALD TRUMP WHO TOLD
REPUBLICANS NOT TO PASS IT, NOT TO GIVE JOE BIDEN A WIN, SO TO
SPEAK. THAT CHANGING AND WHAT IS THE
IMPACT OF TRUMP ON ALL OF THESE ISSUES IN THE ELECTION?
>> I PRETTY STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR FRAMING OF THAT TOPIC.
I WOULD NOTE THAT HOUSE REPUBLICANS, WE PASSED A
COMPREHENSIVE BORDER SECURITY PACKAGE.
UNFORTUNATELY, SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER, CHUCK SCHUMER, HAS
REFUSED TO BRING OUR BILL TO THE FLOOR.
HE'S ALSO REFUSED TO BRING THE BILL TO THE FLOOR THAT YOU'RE
REFERENCING, SO I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THE REASON
THAT IT'S NOT THERE IS BECAUSE OF CONSERVATIVES.
LEADERSHIP IN THE SENATE REFUSES TO BRING ANY SECURITY BILL TO
THE FLOOR. THEY SHOULD BRING THE
CONSERVATIVE PAST, BORDER SECURITY BILL, PASSED IN THE
HOUSE NOW OVER SIX MONTHS AGO TO A VOTE.
IF THEY HAVE AMENDMENTS OR WANT TO SEEK CHANGES TO IT, I WOULD
LOVE TO SEE THE CONVERSATION. THE FACT THAT DEMOCRATIC
LEADERSHIP IN THE SENATE REFUSES TO ACT AND PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO
HAS THE AUTHORITY TODAY REFUSES TO ACT IS INCREDIBLY CONCERNING.
TODAY, PRESIDENT BIDEN COULD END CATCH-AND-RELEASE, HE COULD END
THE ABUSE OF THE PAROLE SYSTEM, HE COULD REINSTATE STAY IN
MEXICO, HE COULD RESTART BORDER WALL CONSTRUCTION IMMEDIATELY.
HE REFUSES TO DO THAT. IT'S THE LACK OF ACTION FROM THE
PRESIDENT, THE LACK OF ACTION FROM CHUCK SCHUMER THAT'S
CAUSING US A LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE ON THE U.S.-MEXICO
BORDER. SUMMER, WE HAVE THE RNC AND
DONALD TRUMP IN WISCONSIN. WHAT IS IMPACT WILL THAT HAVE
FOR THE STATE AND FOR THE FALL? >> ONE, THERE'S NO BETTER PLACE
TO BE THAN IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN IN JULY.
I THINK IT'S A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW OFF OUR STATE AND TO
SHOW OFF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE TO THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
I ALSO THINK IT'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TALK ABOUT
THE BIGGEST ISSUES FACING AMERICAN FAMILIES.
SO MANY PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED BROUGHT TO
US BY MASSIVE VOLUMES OF INFLATION DIRECTLY RELATED TO
MASSIVE RECKLESS SPENDING IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF THE
DEMOCRATIC ONE-PARTY CONTROL, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
THE POLICIES THAT WE NEED TO SEE MOVE FORWARD ARE GETTING PRICE
AND INFLATION UNDER CONTROL. WE CAN DO THAT BY ADDRESSING THE
RECKLESS SPENDING AND, TWO, THE IMPORTANCE OF SECURING THE
U.S.-MEXICO BORDER. POLICY ISSUES IN FRONT OF US
THIS SUMMER AND THROUGH THIS ELECTION, THAT'S GOOD FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT'S GOOD FOR THE STATE OF WISCONSIN AND I
LOOK FORWARD TO THAT CONVERSATION.
CONGRESSMAN, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU. >> DEMOCRAT REPRESENT
WISCONSIN'S FIRST CONGRESSIONAL AND THAT MAN WAS PETER BARCA,
WHO RECENTLY ANNOUNCED HE IS CHALLENGING STEIL AGAIN THIS
FALL. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY,
PETER BARCA. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> YOU SPENT THE LAST FEW YEARS SERVING AT SECRETARY DEPARTMENT
IN THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION. WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO LEAVE THAT
JOB AND RUN FOR CONGRESS THIS FALL?
DECISION. YEARS IN THE EVERS
ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.
WE ACCOMPLISHED A GREAT DEAL. WE WERE ABLE TO CUT TAXES FOR
MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES, WE WERE ABLE TO GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT
TOOLS ON EVERYTHING FROM VAPING LAWS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE
REGISTRIES, BECAUSE MY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THAT WORK
FOR ME TOLD ME THAT PEOPLE END UP, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, END UP
IN THE EMERGENCY ROOMS FROM THIS DANGEROUS VAPING.
ONE OF THE LAST BILLS HE SIGNED WAS NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART
AND THAT'S USE THE TAX SYSTEM FOR ORGAN DONATIONS, SOMETHING
VITALLY IMPORTANT. AT THE END OF THAT BILL-SIGNING,
I HAD FOUR PEOPLE FROM THE U-W ORGAN DONATION CENTER, THEY SAID
SECRETARY BARCA, YOU HAVE TO TELL YOUR STAFF, YOU ARE GOING
TO SAVE HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF LIVES THROUGH THIS
ASPECT. SO IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.
I LOVED DOING IT EVERY SINGLE DAY OF IT WAS A DIFFICULT
DECISION TO LEAVE, BUT LIKE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA AND I HAVEN'T
TALKED TO ANYONE YET THAT DOESN'T FEEL WE HAVE A
DO-NOTHING, DYSFUNCTIONAL CONGRESS.
I DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M SEEING. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT
ABSOLUTELY HAS TO CHANGE. WHEN I WORKED IN THE POLITICAL
SYSTEM, WHETHER IT WAS IN CONGRESS OR THE STATE
LEGISLATURE, I WAS THE KIND OF PERSON THAT BELIEVED YOU ROLL UP
YOUR SLEEVES, WORK WITH BOTH PARTIES, AND YOU SOLVE THE MAJOR
ISSUES OF THE DAY. RIGHT NOW THERE'S TOO MUCH
POLITICAL INTENSE PARTISANSHIP AND NOT ENOUGH EFFORT TO TRY TO
RESOLVE THE ISSUES OF OUR DAY AND TO MAKE PROGRESS FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN, WHO I CARE DEEPLY
ABOUT. CONGRESS PASSED RECENTLY, AND
THAT WAS THE FOREIGN AID PACKAGE.
ON HOW YOU WOULD HAVE VOTE HAD YOU BEEN IN CONGRESS.
I'M GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE FOUR ELEMENTS OF THE BILL.
KIDS WITHGIVE ME A QUICK YES OR. WOULD YOU HAVE SUPPORTED THE AID
TO TAIWAN? >> YES.
>> UKRAINE? >> YES.
>> FORCING TIKTOK TO DIVEST FROM ITS PARENT CHINESE COMPANY?
>> YES. >> AND YES OR NO ON FUNDING FOR
ISRAEL. >> YES.
>> SO GIVE ME A PERSPECTIVE. REPRESENTATIVE FROM WISCONSIN
VOTED KNOX ON BOTH TIKTOK AND AID FOR ISRAEL.
WHY WOULD YOU HAVE SUPPORTED THOSE TWO ELEMENTS?
>> WELL, I WOULD HAVE CERTAINLY VOTED FOR IT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
FOR THE ENTIRE BILL. WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR NATIONAL
SECURITY AND WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR ALLIES, AND IT'S VITALLY
IMPORTANT THAT AMERICA CONTINUE TO HAVE A STRONG PRESENCE IN THE
WORLD AND SUPPORT OUR ALLIES AND DEFEND OUR NATIONAL SECURITY
OVER THE LONG-TERM. THIS BILL DID ACCOMPLISH THAT,
I'M GLAD IT PASSED, AND IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT MEASURE.
>> SO LOOKING AT THE CAMPAIGN AHEAD, THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL
IS CONSISTENTLY REPUBLICAN DISTRICT.
BE ABLE TO PUT IT IN PLAY THIS FALL?
TWO YEARS AGO. IT'S A DISTRICT.
EVEN WHEN I REPRESENTED IT, YOU HAD PARTS OF WAUKESHA COUNTY,
WHICH IS DEEP RED, VERY DIFFICULT FOR A DEMOCRAT.
THAT WAS TAKEN OUT. AND INSTEAD, PARTS OF MILWAUKEE
WERE PUT IN. IT STILL HAS ALL OF KENOSHA
COUNTY, VIRTUALLY ALL OF ROCK COUNTY, AND SO IT'S A VERY --
IT'S A TYPICAL PURPLE-TYPE DISTRICT THAT, ESPECIALLY FOR
SOMEONE LIKE MYSELF, WHO HAVE MANY PEOPLE ENCOURAGED ME TO
RUN. IT TURNS OUT THAT KENOSHA,
RACINE, ARE THE MOST SWING PARTS OF THE DISTRICT, AN AREA I
REPRESENTED FOR OVER A DECADE BEFORE JOINING THE EVERS
CABINET, AND IF AND I HAVE A STG REPUTATION OF WORKING WITH BOTH
PARTIES AND GETTING THINGS DONE. I FEEL LIKE IT'S TIME FOR
CHANGE. S-ACCOUNTABILITY IS THE
CORNERSTONE OF DEMOCRACY. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE VERY BIG
PROBLEMS. BRING FORWARD.
PEOPLE CAN COUNT OFTEN ME TO GO TO BAT FOR PEOPLE.
IN MY HOME DISTRICT IN THE ASSEMBLY, I'VE ALWAYS WON BY
OVERWHELMING MARGINS BECAUSE I'VE HAD SUPPORT FROM DEMOCRATS,
INDEPENDENTS AND REPUBLICANS, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT.
>> SO WHAT IMPACT DO YOU THINK THE TOP OF THE TICKET, BRAZOS BN
VERSUS TRUMP, WILL HAVE, INCLUDING YOUR RACE?
>> IT'S DIFFICULT TO KNOW, QUITE FRANKLY, AND I REALLY CAN'T
WORRY ABOUT THAT. I HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MY OWN
RACE. DO-NOTHING CONGRESS, AND WE NEED
TO CHANGE THAT. I THINK PEOPLE BELIEVE IN
ACCOUNTABILITY. I'M A PERSON KNOWN FOR GETTING
THINGS DONE. IN THE LEGISLATURE, I WAS THE
LEADER FOR SEVEN OF MY -- SEVEN OF THE 10 YEARS THAT I WAS HERE,
AND I'M SOMEBODY THAT WAS KNOWN FOR STANDING UP FOR THE PEOPLE
IN MY HOME DISTRICT AND WE ACCOMPLISHED A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT. VIOLATES RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE HURTING, HAVING TROUBLE MAKING ENDS MEET.
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE STRUGGLING TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS, BUT
EVEN PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS ARE HAVING TROUBLE.
THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO. WE CAN HAVE BUY AMERICA, WE'LL
TRY CHAMPION IN THE LEGISLATURE, I WAS THE LEAD AUTHOR.
ALSO IN THE CONGRESS, WHEN I WAS IN THE CONGRESS, I GOT A BUY
AMERICAN PROVISION, DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION BILL, SO SHIPS
ENGINES WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE IN AMERICA AND THAT BROUGHT BACK
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE LAID OFF, AND MANY MORE WERE
HIRED. UNIONS ARE WHAT GAVE US A
PATHWAY TO THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THESE
DISASTROUS TRADE DEALS THAT ARE HURTING AMERICAN BUSINESSES,
HURTING AMERICAN COMPETITIVENESS AND HURTING AMERICAN WORKERS.
SO THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT I PLAN TO CHAMPION, BUT AS
A FORMER SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, BOTH OF MY PARENTS WERE
ENTREPRENEURIZE, WORKFORCE WAS SAME THING DOWN IN THE FIRST
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL
CHAMPION IS IT'S RIDICULOUS TO HAVE REMOTE LEARNING
RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE ON SOCIAL SECURITY.
AGO, BUT PEOPLE DESPERATELY NEED WORKERS, SO IF PEOPLE WANT TO
WORK, THEY'RE NOW RESTRICTED 15, 20 HOURS IN SOME CASES, BUT IF
THEY WANT TO WORK 30, FORCED 40A WEEK, GOD BLESS THEM.
I WILL STAND UP FOR OUR FREEDOMS, TAKING AWAY FREEDOMS
FOR WOMEN TO MAKE THEIR OWN HEALTHCARE DECISIONS.
PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO VOTE. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
>> ALL RIGHT. PETER BARCA, WE'LL FOLLOW THIS
THROUGHOUT THE FALL. THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE, ZAC, KEEPING YOUR LISTENERS AND VIEWERS INFORMED.
>> EARLIER THIS WEEK, VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS WAS IN
LaCROSSE TO INTRODUCE NEW FEDERAL STANDARDS FOR NURSING
HOMES IN LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES.
ONCE FINALIZED, THE NEW RULES WOULD IMPLEMENT A MINIMUM NUMBER
OF HOURS STAFF WOULD HAVE TO BE AROUND PATIENTS AND REQUIRE A
REGISTERED NURSE ON-SITE AT ALL TIMES.
MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT GO TOWARDS EMPLOYEE WAGES.
VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS NOTED MANY OF THE WORKERS IN THIS INDUSTRY
HAVE BEEN TRADITIONALLY UNDERPAID, A FACTOR THAT LEADS
TO STAFFING SHORTAGES. >> ONE OF THE CHARACTER TRAITS
OF REAL LEADERS IS TO HAVE SOME LEVEL OF COMPASSION AND CONCERN
ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF OTHER PEOPLE AND THEN WANT TO DO
SOMETHING ABOUT THAT TO IMPROVE THEIR CONDITION.
THAT'S THE WORK OF THESE WORKERS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT
NOW. AND WE AS A SOCIETY SHOULD VALUE
THAT. >> CURRENT LAW ONLY SAYS
FACILITIES NEED TO HAVE, QUOTE, SUFFICIENT STAFFING.
MEET THESE NEW STANDARDS, THE GOVERNMENT SAYS A MAJORITY OF
THE COUNTRY'S 15,000 NURSING HOMES WOULD NEED TO ADD STAFF IN
ORDER TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE. TO GIVE US THE WISCONSIN
PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE JOINED BY RICK ABRAMS, THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE WISCONSIN HEALTHCARE ASSOCIATION AND THE
WISCONSIN CENTER FOR ASSISTED LIVING.
>> ZAC, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.
THE LONG-TERM CARE INDUSTRY IS IN WISCONSIN.
ARE THERE ENOUGH BEDS AND WORKERS TO PROVIDE FOR A
GENERATION OF AGING BABY BOOMERS?
THERE ARE ENOUGH BEDS. WE HAVE GOT APPROXIMATELY 26,000
NURSING HOME BEDS IN THE STATE. OUR AVERAGE STATEWIDE OCCUPANCY
IS ABOUT 70%, SO YOU'VE GOT CAPACITY, BUT THE CHALLENGE IS
DEDICATED WORKERS. THE LABOR SHORTAGE WAS ALWAYS A
PROBLEM IN WISCONSIN. CERTAINLY WAS EXACERBATED WITH
THE PANDEMIC. AND FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, AND
I'M SURE WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT IT, A COOKIE CUTTER BLACK AND
WHITE STAFFING MINIMUM JUST IS NOT THE RIGHT APPROACH.
>> SO, YEAH, LET'S TALK ABOUT. WHAT IS YOUR REACTION FOR THE
NEW REGULATIONS? ARE THERE ANY PARTICULAR THAT
SEEM MORE ONEROUS OR DIFFICULT FOR NURSING HOMES AND LONG-TERM
CARE FACILITIES TO ACTUALLY MEET?
>> YOU KNOW, ZAC, TWO THINGS. FIRST, EVEN THOUGH WE MAY
DISAGREE WITH THE APPROACH, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT
EVERYONE IS WELL-INTENTIONED, WHETHER YOU'RE A FEDERAL POLICY
MAKER LIKE OUR VICE PRESIDENT IS, STATE POLICY-MAKER, AND
CERTAINLY THE FOLKS IN THE SECTOR, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
REQUIREMENTS OF THE MINIMUM STAFFING MANDATE, THE MOST
DIFFICULT TO MEET IS GOING TO BE THE REQUIREMENT OF HAVING A
REGISTERED NURSE, AN R.N., IF YOU WILL, ON-SITE 24 HOURS A
DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. THAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT, IF
NOT IMPOSSIBLE IN SOME CASES TO MEET SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE ARE
NOT ENOUGH R.N.s, BUT EQUALLY CONCERNING TO US IS THAT THAT
24/7 REQUIREMENT, IF YOU WILL, APPLIES WHETHER YOU'RE A 40-BED
NURSING FACILITY IN RURAL WISCONSIN OR A 500-BED NURSING
FACILITY IN BRONX, NEW YORK. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO
US. APPROACH.
>> SO I WANT TO READ A STATEMENT WE RECEIVED FROM KIM MARHEINE.
SHE SAYS MANY ASK WHETHER THE TIME IS RIGHT FOR THESE CHANGES,
GIVEN CURRENT STAFFING STRESSORS FACING THE LONG-TERM CARE
INDUSTRY. THOUGH THERE MAY NEVER BE A BEST
TIME FOR THESE CHANGES, CONSUMER NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS DEMAND
THE TIME IS NOW. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT
STATEMENT? >> WELL, FIRST, I HAVE GREAT
RESPECT FOR KIM. I GOT MY START IN LONG-TERM CARE
AS A LONG-TERM CARE OMBUDSMAN. BUT, YOU KNOW, ZAC, IN THE
BEGINNING, IN YOUR INTRODUCTION, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CURRENT
STANDARD, AND THE CURRENT STANDARD IS SUFFICIENCY.
NOT ONLY IN NUMBERS, BUT ALSO IN EXPERTISE, AND WE THINK THAT
THAT IS THE RIGHT APPROACH, BECAUSE EVERY NURSING HOME, NOT
ONLY IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, BUT LITERALLY EVERY NURSING HOME
IN THIS COUNTRY HAS A DIFFERENT PATIENT MIX.
TO STAFF TO THAT PATIENT MIX. AND WE THINK THAT THAT'S THE
RIGHT APPROACH. NURSING HOMES CLOSING DOWN?
WILL THEY JUST NOT BE ABLE TO ACCEPT PEOPLE?
WHAT'S THE BIGGER IMPLICATION, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL WISCONSIN?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S THREE IMPLICATIONS, TWO OF WHICH
YOU'VE ADDRESSED. RURAL AREAS FOR OUR SMALL
COMMUNITY-BASED FACILITIES, THEY MAY NEED TO -- THEY MAY NEED TO
CLOSE IF THEY CANNOT MEET THESE STANDARDS, BECAUSE NOT MEETING
THE STANDARDS THEN CARRIES WITH IT SUBSTANTIAL PENALTIES, AND A
FACILITY CAN'T SUSTAIN THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, IF A FACILITY
FINDS THAT AFTER A GOOD FAITH EFFORT THEY JUST CANNOT STAFF TO
THE REQUIREMENT, THEY'RE GOING TO THEN REDUCE THE NUMBER OF
BEDS THAT ARE OCCUPIED. AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS,
ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS, ACCESS IS CHALLENGED, AND NOBODY
WANTS THAT TO HAPPEN. BUT YOU KNOW, ZAC, THE THIRD
THING, AND THIS IS PURELY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IS THAT IF A
FACILITY CANNOT ACHIEVE THE 3.48 HOURS PER RESIDENT DAY, IF
THEY'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF OCCUPIED
BEDS, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT PUTS MORE PRESSURE ON THE STAFF THAT
IS THERE AND THE BIGGEST CONCERN THAT I HAVE WITH THAT IS THAT
THAT IS GOING TO HASTEN BURN-OUT AND THAT IS GOING TO HASTEN THE
EXODUS OF THESE GOOD AND DEDICATED PEOPLE FROM OUR
SECTOR, AND NOBODY CAN AFFORD THAT.
QUESTION WAS EXCELLENT. AND FOR ONE, TWO, OR ALL THREE
OF THESE REASONS, WE JUST DON'T THINK A BLACK AND WHITE COOKIE
CUTTER, MINIMUM STAFFING STANDARD IS GOOD.
>> FINALLY TONIGHT, A NEW STUDY FROM THE UW-MADISON RESEARCH ON
THE WISCONSIN ECONOMY ASKS IS THE UW-MADISON IN DECLINE?
JOINING US NOW IS ANANTH SESHADRI.
RANKINGS OF PROGRAMS COMPARED TO OTHER UNIVERSITIES AND YOU'VE
SHOWN A SIGNIFICANT DECLINE SINCE 2010.
HOW DO YOU COME TO THAT? >> WE LOOK AT FOUR DIFFERENT
MEASURES OF RANKINGS. ONE IS THE COLLEGE RANKINGS OF
UNDERGRADUATE PROGRAMS. PROGRAMS, WE LOOK AT R&D,
RESEARCH RANKINGS, HOW MUCH IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND
DEVELOPMENT, HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE BRING IN, MAINLY FROM THE
GOVERNMENT, AND FINALLY, GLOBAL RANKINGS OF THE IN THE FIRST
RANKING, WE FIND THAT IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S BEST CHALLENGES, WE
CAUGHT UP WITH WHERE WE WERE A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO, AROUND
34, 35, YOU'RE BACK THERE. SOME OF IT IS CHANGES IN THE
METHODOLOGY AND SOME OF IT IS JUST ACTIVE INVESTMENTS ON THE
PART OF UW-MADISON. IN THE OTHER THREE DIMENSIONS,
WE FIND THAT THEY'VE BASICALLY DECLINED.
MOST HAVE DECLINED OVER THE LAST DECADE OR SO.
TIMELINE. 2010 WAS WHEN SCOTT WALKER
BECAME GOVERNOR, REPUBLICANS TOOK OVER THE LEGISLATURE, AND
THEY STARTED ABOUT A DECADE-LONG PROCESS OF FORCING UW TO SPEND
DOWN ITS RESERVES AND CUTTING -- FREEZING TUITION, CUTTING
SPENDING. CAUSATION LINING UP IN THOSE
AREAS? >> IT'S A BIT HARD TO SAY.
WE DON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS OF WHY THE RANKINGS FELL.
INTERESTINGLY, ONE OF OUR FOLLOW-UP PAPERS IS GOING TO ASK
THE QUESTION, IS THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER A LITTLE TOO STINGY
WHEN IT COMES TO FUNDING UW-MADISON, AND WE'RE RIGHT
THERE IN TERMS OF THE MEETING OF OUR PEERS.
FTE, WE'RE NOT THAT FAR OFF FROM OUR MEDIAN, SO I WOULD SAY
THAT'S NOT A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT THAT'S THE MAJOR CAUSE OF
THE DECLINE. OTHER ASPECTS, BOTH INTERNAL AND
EXTERNAL THAT WE COULD ADDRESS IN ORDER TO BETTER SERVE BOTH
THE STATE OF WISCONSIN AND OUR STUDENTS.
>> AND YOUR PAPER ALSO LOOKED AT THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
MONEY, AND UW USED TO BE SECOND IN THE NATION.
THEY'VE DROPPED TO EIGHTH. A LOT OF THAT IS INDIVIDUAL
PROFESSORS WHO WRITE SOME OF THOSE GRANTS AND BRING IN THE
RESEARCH FOR THEIR PARTICULAR AREAS OF STUDY.
ONCE AGAIN, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF I GUESS SO CALLED UNIVERSITY
SUPERSTARS GET POACHED BY OTHER UNIVERSITIES.
PAY AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND REPLACING THEM FROM WITHIN, I
GUESS? >> SURE.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE NOT AS GOOD AT AS RELATIVE TO OUR
PEERS IS OUR BIG GRANTS. LIKE CHANCELLOR FOR RESEARCH ARE
VERY FOCUSED ON TRYING TO GET INTO THESE MULTIDISCIPLINARY
TEAMS IN GETTING 30 AND 50-MILLION-DOLLAR GRANTS FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. ONE THING THAT WE'VE GOT TO BE
BETTER AT IS TO BE NOR HIMMIBLE. AN EXAMPLE, IN 2020, 2021, A.I.
WAS A BIG INITIATIVE. SO ARE WE INVESTING IN A.I. AND
MOVING RESOURCES TO THE PRIORITY AREAS OF THE FEDERAL FUNDING
AGENCY AS FAST AS OUR PEERS. AND SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD
REALLY HELP WITH SHORING UP OUR R&D FUNDING.
>> NO MATTER THE CAUSE OF THE DECLINE, YOUR PAPER LOOKED AT
THE GLOBAL IMPACT. I WANT YOU UH TO EXPLAIN TO
PEOPLE HOW THESE RANKINGS DO MATTER FOR SOME COUNTRIES AND
WHETHER SOME STUDENTS COME HERE. >> INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS ARE
VERY POPULAR. STUDENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD LOOK
AT THESE INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS OF WORLD UNIVERSITIES.
WE NOTE IN THE PAPER THAT IT ACTUALLY HAS BITE.
FOR INSTANCE, IN THE U.K. GARMENT, CHINESE GARMENT, GIVE
PRIORITIES FOR STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE FROM A TOP 50 GLOBAL
UNIVERSITY. SO IT'S NOT JUST THE SIGNALING
VALUE ASSOCIATED WITH THE RANKING, BUT IT ACTUALLY HAS
REAL CONSEQUENCES. >> SO DOES THAT MEAN WE COULD
SEE FEWER FOREIGN STUDENTS ON CAMPUS?
SOURCE OF TUITION COMING IN. >> RIGHT.
I THINK AS AN INSTITUTION, WE REMAIN AN EXCELLENT INSTITUTION.
SO BY NO MEANS IS THE REPORT TRYING TO SOUND ALARMIST BELLS,
BUT I THINK IT'S MORE OF A CALL TO ARMS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
ALLOCATE RESOURCES NIMBLY AND EFFICIENTLY.
AND, YES, I DO THINK WE WOULD SEE PRESSURE IN TERMS OF
INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS, EXCELLENT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
WHO WANT TO CHOOSE UW-MADISON AS A DESTINY, FAIRLY AS WE DECLINE
IN THESE RANKINGS. >> YOU SAY UW-MADISON WILL
BENEFIT FROM A RENEWED COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, AND WITHOUT MORE FUNDING, HOW DOES THAT
HAPPEN? >> FUNDING IS A REALLY CRITICAL
PART OF THE STORY. SO I'LL GO BACK IN TERMS OF
FUNDING AND SAY THAT IF YOU ASK THE QUESTION WHERE ARE WE
AGAINST OUR PEERS, IT'S NOT STATE APPROPRIATIONS WHERE WE'RE
VERY DIFFERENT THAN OUR PEERS. IT'S UNDERGRADUATE IN-STATE
TUITION. LOT OF CONCERN WITH INCREASING
TUITION, BUT UW-MADISON IS EXCELLENT IN ENSURING THAT THE
STUDENTS GRADUATE DEBT-FREE. SO AS A SOURCE OF REVENUE,
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND OUT RELATIVE TO OUR PEERS.
IN TERMS OF BEING NIMBLE, IN TERMS OF ALLOCATING RESOURCES,
WHAT I HAD IN MIND IS THE FACT THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST
FEW DECADES, STUDENT DEMAND HAS CHANGED.
MOST POPULAR MAJOR. PRIORITIES OF THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS CHANGED. IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO BOTH
ENSURE THAT WE CATER TO THOSE STUDENTS AND TO THE NEW AREAS
THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY BEING PRIORITY AREAS, THEN WE'VE GOT
TO BE MOVING RESOURCES MUCH MORE NIMBLY THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST.
>> WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE. ANANTH S SESHADRI, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US. THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ. THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
WISCONSIN.