EARLY, IT JUST SO HANDICAPS THEM
FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.
>> WE'RE JOINED BY RICH
HALVERSON, PROFESSOR AT THE UW
MADISON SCHOOL OF EDUCATION IS
FOR MORE ON HOW READING IS
TAUGHT.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO IF WE NEED A LEGISLATIVE
BILL TO REINTRODUCE PHONICS,
WHAT HAPPENED TO IT?
WHEN DID IT FADE FROM FASHION?
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S EVER
REALLY FADED FROM FASHION.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF
LITERACY INSTRUCTION.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS DURING
COVID TIME, THERE'S PART OF
LEARNING TO READ AND TEACHING
READING THAT'S PRETTY TECHNICAL
THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF SKILL ON
THE PART OF TEACHERS AND THEN
THERE'S PART THAT RELIES ON
USAGE AND HAVING KIDS BE ABLE TO
EXPRESS THEMSELVES, AND I THINK
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED
DURING COVID TIME IS THAT THE
TECHNICAL PARTS OF READING THAT
REQUIRE A LOT OF ONE-ON-ONE
INTERACTION BETWEEN TEACHERS AND
YOUNG READERS, THAT'S WHAT FELL
APART, AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING
THAT IN OUR TEST SCORES AND I
THINK THE FOCUS ON BRINGING
PHONICS BACK TO THE FOREFRONT OF
OUR INSTRUCTIONAL PROGRAM IS
REALLY IMPORTANT.
>> SO WHICH IS BETTER?
WHAT'S CALLED THIS SCIENCE OF
READING OR PHONICS OR THE
TECHNICAL ASPECTS, AS YOU REGARD
IT?
OR BALANCED LITERACY, SOMETHING
I'VE READ ABOUT, WHICH PERHAPS
HAS LESS EMPHASIS ON PHONICS?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO UNDERSTAND THAT READING IS
PART OF BECOMING A LITERATE
PERSON.
SO IN ORDER TO BE LITERATE IN
SOCIETY, YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO
DECODE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE
VOCABULARY, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE
TO INTERACT WITH FOLKS, AND PART
OF THE LEARNING TO READ PART IS
THAT TECHNICAL ASPECT OF
UNDERSTANDING LETTER PATTERNS,
UNDERSTANDING HOW THEY FIT
TOGETHER, UNDERSTANDING
VOCABULARY.
I THINK OF THIS A LOT LIKE
LEARNING TO DRIVE.
SO SOME YOUNG PEOPLE COME TO
THEIR DRIVING LESSONS, THEY KNOW
HOW TO DRIVE AND NEED PATRIARCHS
BUT SOME PEOPLE REALLY RELY ON
THE TECHNICAL SKILLS THAT
DRIVING INSTRUCTORS GIVE IN
ORDER TO LEARN THE RULES OF THE
ROAD, TO LEARN HOW TO INTERACTED
WITH OTHER DRIVERS, AND THAT'S I
THINK THE ROLE THAT PHONICS
PLAYS IN OUR READING CURRICULUM.
>> AND YOU'VE SAID THAT PEOPLE
WHO HAVE LEARNED TO READ WITH
THESE TECHNICAL SKILLS, PHONICS,
TEST BETTER.
>> WELL, THE TESTS THAT WE HAVE
ARE -- THAT WE HOLD AS IMPORTANT
ARE THIRD GRADE READING TESTS.
THEY REALLY FOCUS ON THE KINDS
OF SKILLS THAT PHONICS TEACHES.
SO THERE'S A TRANSITION THAT
HAPPENS IN LITERACY FROM
LEARNING TO READ TO READING TO
LEARN, AND THAT HAPPENS AROUND
THE FOURTH OR FIFTH GRADE, WHERE
THEN YOU TAKE YOUR TECHNICAL
SKILLS AND YOU USE THEM TO
EXPLORE OTHER DOMAINS, AND WHAT
WE REALLY NEED IS YOUNG PEOPLE
WHO CAN MASTER THOSE TECHNICAL
SKILLS SO THEY CAN GO ON TO
APPLY THEIR READING SKILLS TO
BECOME MORE LITERATE FOLKS.
>> BECAUSE IF YOU CAN'T READ
BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T LEARNED
THOSE TECHNICAL SKILLS, YOU KIND
OF CAN'T DEVELOP A LOVE OF
READING, WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE
ARE LOOKING FOR.
RIGHT?
>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
I THINK THE DRIVING ANALOGY IS
REALLY PERFECT HERE.
LIKE YOU CAN LEARN THE RULES OF
THE ROAD DOWN THE ROAD, SO TO
SPEAK, BY DRIVING AND THEN
MISTAKING MISTAKES, BUT IT'S
BETTER TO HAVE AS A SENSE OF HOW
THINGS ARE CONSTRUCTED ON THE
ROAD, WHAT IS GOOD BEHAVIOR ON
THE ROAD, AND I THINK THAT'S
WHAT THE BASIC SKILLS FOR
READING REALLY HELP YOUNG PEOPLE
DEVELOP.
>> AND SO IF YOU ARE A
KINDERGARTENER OR A FIRST GRADER
AND YOU ARE BEING TAUGHT WITH
PHONICS THESE TECHNICAL SKILLS,
I THINK YOU CALLED IT DECODING,
IS IT SINGULAR TO THAT?
OR IS OTHER STUFF KIND OF
INTRODUCED AT THE SAME TIME TO
DEVELOP THIS KIND OF BROADER
RANGE OF LITERACY.
>> WELL, MOST PEOPLE WHO TALK
ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF READING,
THERE'S NINE DIFFERENT PARTS OF
IT.
THERE'S VOCABULARY DEVELOPMENT,
THERE'S PATTERN RECOGNITION,
THERE'S SYMBOL DECODING AND THEN
THERE'S USAGE AND THEN THERE'S
THE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU
BRING TO YOUR ABILITY TO
INTERACT WITH OTHER PEOPLE, AND
I THINK IN KINDERGARTEN AND IN
FIRST GRADE, THE SCIENCE OF
READING APPROACH REALLY FOCUSES
ON SOME OF THOSE MORE TECHNICAL
SKILLS TO PREPARE YOUNG PEOPLE
FOR THE USAGE-BASED SKILLS,
COMPREHENSION-BASED SKILLS.
>> EXP AND ARE WE SAYING THAT NW
THAT HAS FALLEN OFF THE TABLE
FOR TEACHERS BECAUSE OF THE
PANDEMIC?
>> I THINK THAT THE IDEA OF
BALANCED LITERACY IS IMPORTANT
FOR A SCHOOL.
A SCHOOL NEEDS TO HAVE
INSTRUCTORS THAT CAN REALLY WORK
ON THE TECHNICAL SKILLS WITH
YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT ALSO REALLY
WORK ON USAGE AND DEVELOPING A
LOVE OF READING, AND SO YOU HAVE
TO HAVE A SCHOOL THAT HAS SKILL
IN ALL THOSE AREAS, AND I THINK
WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT BRINGS
RESOURCES INTO SCHOOLS TO
BOLSTER THEIR ABILITY TO PREPARE
TEACHERS TO USE THOSE TECHNICAL
SCHOOLS WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.
>> LOOKING AT WISCONSIN TEST
SCORES, THERE ARE MAJOR GAPS
BETWEEN WHITE AND BLACK
STUDENTS.
HOW ARE THOSE GAPS, THOUGH,
ABOUT MORE THAN HOW READING IS
TAUGHT IN GRADE SCHOOL?
>> WELL, READING IS A CORE
ASPECT OF THE SKILLS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT ON STANDARDIZED TESTS.
IF YOU CAN'T INTERPRET AND
DECODE THE TEST, IT'S VERY
DIFFICULT TO DO -- HAVE AN
EFFECTIVE RESULT SO IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT ALL OF THE
CHILDREN IN WISCONSIN ACQUIRE
THOSE BASIC READING SKILLS.
HOWEVER, THE TESTS ARE ONE
MEASURE OF HOW YOUNG PEOPLE
INTERACT IN THE WORLD.
THERE'S THEIR ABILITY TO MIKE
THINGS, THEIR ABILITY TO EXPRESS
THEMSELVES, THEIR ABILITY TO
ENGAGE IN POLITICAL DISCOURSE,
IN INTERACTION WITH ONE ANOTHER.
ALL OF THOSE ARE IMPORTANTLY
INDICATORS AS WELL.
SO I THINK WHILE IT'S IMPORTANT
FOR US TO LOOK AT THE TEST
SCORES, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL
NOT TO EXCLUSIVELY FOCUS ON TEST
SCORES AND TEST CORE GAPS WHEN
WE MEASURE THE SUCCESS OF
EDUCATION.
THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER
IS THAT TEST SCORES LARGELY
REFLECT SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.
SO THEY REFLECT THE SKILLS AND
THE ABILITIES TO PARTICIPATE IN
SCHOOL THAT YOUNG PEOPLE BRING
INTO THE SCHOOL AND SO WE HAVE
TO ALSO THINK ABOUT HOW OUR
SCHOOLS HELP KIDS WHO DON'T HAVE
THOSE SKILLS COMING IN TO
ACQUIRE THEM SO THEY CAN BE
SUCCESSFUL IN SCHOOLS.