FAVOR TO WILDFIRES IMPROVE.
>>> DEMOCRATIC WISCONSIN SENATOR
TAMMY BALDWIN ANNOUNCED SHE IS
RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM.
AN ANOTHER SCORCHED EARTH
CAMPAIGN, POLITICAL VITRIOL AN
STEROIDS.
THAT SEEMS TO BE THE WISCONSIN
WAY.
IN FACT, A NEW REPORT FROM THE
CENTER FOR COMMUNICATION AND
CIVIC RENEWAL AT UW MADISON
SHOWS WISCONSIN'S POLITICAL
DIVIDES ARE BREAKING CITIZENS
APART.
CENTER DIRECTOR AND JOURNALISM
PROFESSOR, MICHAEL WAGNER, JOINS
US WITH DETAILS, AND THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR BEING HERE AGAIN.
>> IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU.
>> SO WHAT ARE THE MOST
PROMINENT SYMPTOMS OF
WISCONSIN'S POLITICAL DIVIDE?
YOUR SURVEY CALLS THEM CIVIC
FRACTURES.
>> YES.
SOME OF THE EXAMPLES WE SEE OF
THAT ARE IN HOW POLITICS AND
YOUR DEEP COMMITMENT TO OUR
POLITICAL IDENTITIES IS IS NOW
SHAPING HOW WE ENGAGE EVERY DAY
WITH PEOPLE.
WE'VE STOPPED TALKING POLICIES.
WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER
OR THE BADGERS, BUT WE WON'T
TALK POLITICS.
ONE IN FIVE HAVE CUT A FAMILY
FEBRUARY OR FRIEND OUT OF OUR
LIVES BECAUSE OF DISAGREEMENTS.
THAT MIGHT BE BECAUSE WE DON'T
WANT TO HAVE TO ENGAGE THEIR
IDEAS OR MAYBE THE OTHER SIDE IS
TELLING US WHO WE ARE IS INVALID
OR MAYBE WE FEEL DANGEROUS IN
SOME CONVERSATIONS OR WE MIGHT
BE IN DANGER, AND SO IT'S HARD
TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S DRIVING
THESE THINGS, BUT PEOPLE ARE
RETREATING FROM THE KIND OF
DELIBERATION THAT IS FUNDAMENTAL
TO DEMOCRACY.
>> THOUSAND AND WHY DID THIS
HAPPEN?
>> IT'S GOTTEN WORSE SINCE ACT
10.
OVER THE LAST DECADE PLUS, WE'VE
SEEN A GROWING FRACTURE IN THESE
KINDS OF MEASURES OF OUR CIVIC
HEALTH, AND SO 11 YEARS AGO,
ABOUT 33% OF WISCONSINITES SAID
THEY'D STOP TALKING POLITICS
WITH A FRIEND.
NOW IT'S 60%.
IT'S REALLY INCREASED THE WAY
THAT OUR LEGISLATURE AND
GOVERNOR DEAL WITH EACH OTHER
HAS GOTTEN MORE ACRIMONIOUS, OUR
POLITICAL ADS HAVE GOTTEN MORE
ACRIMONIOUS, NATIONAL POLITICS
IS MORE COARSE AND FRAUGHT WITH
ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE
BOTH UNCIVIL OR OUTRIGHT
DANGEROUS AND DISTURBING ON THE
OTHER, AND SO ALL OF THESE
THINGS ARE HAPPENING AT ONCE.
>> WHY IS THE MESSAGING THAT
MAKES PEOPLE ANGRY, DISTRUSTFUL
AND EVEN FEARFUL TO RESONANT?
>> WELL, PEOPLE ARE OFTEN DRIVEN
PARTIALLY BY EMOTIONS AND THEIR
DECISION-MAKING AND IT'S EASIER
I THINK TO TAP INTO PEOPLE'S
FEAR AND IT'S EASIER TO SAY TO
PEOPLE, YOU'RE NOT THE REASON
FOR YOUR PROBLEMS AND IT'S NOT
BROAD STRUCTURAL THINGS THAT ARE
REALLY HARD TO FIX; IT'S THOSE
PEOPLE, THAT GROUP THAT WE DON'T
LIKE IS WHY YOUR LIFE IS HARDER,
AND SO IT BECOMES EASIER TO
DISLIKE THAT GROUP AND SUPPORT
THE PEOPLE THAT WERE TELLING YOU
THAT THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
>> HOW SURPRISING IS YOUR
FINDING THAT 60% OF STRONG TRUMP
SUPPORTERS SAY THEY COULD HAVE
TO USE FORCE TO SAVE THE
TRADITIONAL AMERICAN WAY OF
LIFE.
60%.
>> YEAH.
WE ARE INTERESTED IN HOW THESE
CIVIC FRACTURES MIGHT LEAD TO
ANTI-DEMOCRATIC OUTCOMES LIKE
USING VIOLENCE TO ACHIEVE YOUR
POLITICAL MEANS, AND FOR MOST
REPUBLICANS, THEY SAY, NO, WE
DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA, BUT AMONG
THE ONE-THIRD OF REPUBLICANS WHO
ARE SUPPORTERS OF TRUMP, 60% OF
THOSE FOLKS SAY THEY MIGHT
ENDORSE THAT DEAL.
SAYING YOU ENDORSE FORCE RATHER
THAN ACTUALLY DOING IT IS
DIFFERENT, BUT THIS IS AN
ALARMING AND DISTURBING RESULT,
SO WE NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON
THIS AS A ASSOCIATED THAT THERE
ARE OTHER WAYS TO SOLVE OUR
PROBLEMS OTHER THAN USING
VIOLENCE.
>> THIS REPORT SAYS THAT THIS
DIAGNOSIS IS GRIM BUT THERE IS
REASON FOR HOPE.
LIKE WHAT?
>> LOTS OF THINGS.
>> FIRST, PEOPLE FAVOR POLITICAL
COMPROMISE EVEN OVER STICKING TO
YOUR PRINCIPLES EVEN IF NOTHING
GETS DONE.
MORE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THEIR
VOTE WAS COUNTED.
STRONG CONFIDENCE IN THAT.
THERE'S STRONG SUPPORT FOR
NON-PART SAT REDISTRICTING,
WHICH IS A FAIRER WAY TO ENGAGE
IN REPRESENTATION.
AND THERE'S STRONG SUPPORT FOR
THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND
STATE ACROSS POLITICAL PARTIES.
AND SO THERE ARE FOUNDATIONS WE
CAN BUILD ON TO IMPROVE
DEMOCRACY IN OUR STATE.
>> IT SEEMS HARD TO UNDERSTAND
HOW THERE IS 80% OF SURVEY
RESPONDENTS BELIEVE THAT THEIR
VOTE WAS COUNTED, WILL BE
COUNTED.
HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH
ELECTION DENIAL AND ALL OF THIS
MISINFORMATION THAT WE'VE BEEN
LISTENING TO FOR 2-1/2 YEARS?
>> WELL, WE'VE HEARD IT COMING
REALLY FROM ONE CORNER OF
POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND WE'VE
SEEN MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
OPEN TO THAT IDEA ARE THESE TEND
TO BE STRONG SUPPORTERS OF
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.
HE'S NOT RELENTED ON THAT MANY
REPUBLICANS IN GOVERNMENT WILL
EITHER AGREE WITH HIM OR WON'T
DIRECTLY DISAGREE AND SO THERE'S
THIS AMBIGUITY IS THERE THAT
LETS PEOPLE FEEL LIKE MAYBE
SEEMS LIKE THE ELECTION WAS
REASONABLY CONDUCTED BUT MAYBE
IT WASN'T OR MAYBE THERE WERE
SOME PROBLEMS EVEN THOUGH ALL OF
THE AUDITS, ALL OF THE LAWSUITS,
ALL POINT TO THE SAME STORY,
WHICH IS THAT WE DO THAT REALLY
WELL IN WISCONSIN.
>> WHY DID YOUR CENTER EMBARK ON
THIS STUDY?
>> WE REALLY CARE ABOUT WAYS WE
CAN REKNIT TOGETHER THE CIVIC
FABRIC.
THIS IS A STATE THAT HAS ELECTED
PEOPLE IN STATEWIDE ELECTIONS
FROM BOTH PARTIES.
IT'S A STATE THAT HAS HAD VERY
TIBIAL AND VERY CONSERVATIVE
LAWMAKERS REPRESENT US AND WE'VE
BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IN WAYS
WHERE WE COULD TALK TOGETHER,
WORK TOGETHER, TRY TO SOLVE
PROBLEMS TOGETHER, AND AS THOSE
THINGS FRACTURE, BECOMES HARDER
TO DO THAT.
WEPT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM
SO WEB HEM ARTICULATE A
SOLUTION.
>> MIKE WAGNER, THANKS VERY
MUCH.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBS WISCONSIN