>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART
OF OUR "HERE & NOW" 2022
ELECTION COVERAGE.
AFTER A LONG AN EXPENSIVE
CAMPAIGN SEASON, ELECTION DAY IS
FINALLY ALMOST HERE.
AND CANDIDATES ARE PULLING OUT
ALL THE STOPS MAKING THEIR FINAL
BIDS TO VOTERS.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE & NOW", ZAC
SCHULTZ REPORTS ON THE
GOVERNOR'S RACE AND THE FUTURE
OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.
THE LATEST MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL
SURVEY AND ABOUT WHAT THE ROLES
VOTERS CAN PLAY.
>> FUNDED IS PROVIDED BY:
>> Frederica: IN JUST A FEW
DAYS, VOTERS WILL GO TO THE
POLLS AND DECIDE WHAT THE FUTURE
OF WISCONSIN GOVERNMENT WILL
LOOK LIKE.
DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TONY EVERS
SAID HE'S VETOED BILLS PASSED BY
A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND HE
CAN EXPECT THE SAME AS IT'S
ASSURED TO REMAIN IN REPUBLICAN
HANDS AND OTHERS WILL TRANSFORM
WISCONSIN FOR YEARS TO COME AND
PUBLIC EDUCATION IS A FOCUS ON
HOW SCHOOLS SHOULD OPERATE.
ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS.
>> WE'LL STOP THE CRT AND GET
BACK TO THE ABCs.
>> REPUBLICAN TIM MICHELS PLANS
CAN BE REDUCED TO ONE LINE.
>> WE'LL STOP THE CRT AND GET
BACK TO THE ABCs.
>> WE'RE GOING TO STOP THE CRT
AND GET BACK TO THE ABC.
>> TIME IS UP, GOVERNOR.
>> CRTs ARE NOT TAUGHT AND ABCs
ARE.
MOST PARENTS TEACH IT AT HOME.
>> IT'S SHORT FOR CRT CRT.
A COLLEGE-LEVEL POLITICAL THEORY
WHICH USES RACE AS A LENS TO
EXAMINE HISTORY BUT IT'S BECOME
PART OF THE ONGOING CULTURE WARS
THAT DRIVE REPUBLICAN TURNOUT AT
THE POLLS.
>> NOW IT'S ALL ABOUT THE
ACRONYMS LGBTQ AND BLM.
>> WHEN YOU START PICKING PEOPLE
OUT WHETHER IT'S BLACK KIDS,
BROWN KIDS, LGBTQ KIDS,
WOKENESS, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU
DIVIDED EVERYBODY AND THAT DOES
NOTHING FOR A CONVERSATION.
IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEBODY THAT IS
NEVER WALKED THROUGH A PUBLIC
SCHOOL IN THEIR LIFE.
>> DEMOCRAT TONY EVERS IS
COMFORTABLE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS
EVEN IF THEY CONFUSE HIM.
>> YOU LOOK LIKE SOMEBODY I
KNOW.
>> I'M GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
YOU MAY HAVE SEEN ME ON TV.
>> YOU LOOK LIKE JOE BIDEN.
>> THAT'S A COMPLIMENT.
>> PRIOR TO BECOMING GOVERNOR,
HE SPENT HIS ENTIRE CAREER IN
EDUCATION AS A TEACHER,
ADMINISTRATOR AND SUPERINTENDENT
AND WANTS TO PROPOSE ADDITIONAL
SPEND NEXT BUDGET.
>> WE NEED MORE RESOURCES FOR
THEM.
NO QUESTION.
>> TIM MICHELS MADE HIS POSITION
CLEAR IN NUMEROUS SPEECHES BUT
WAS NOT AVAILABLE.
>> OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS
BROKEN IN WISCONSIN.
WE'RE THROWING SO MUCH MONEY AT
EDUCATION IT'S BEEN THE FIX, IF
YOU WILL, THE LAST 20, 30 YEARS
MORE MONEY AT EDUCATION, MORE
MONEY AT EDUCATION AND IT'S NOT
WORKING.
THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY WE'LL
LEAVE IT AT THAT.
>> HIS SOLUTION IS UNIVERSAL
SCHOOL CHOICE.
>> WE'LL HAVE EDUCATION REFORM.
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE.
>> HIS WEBSITE IS LIGHT ON
SPECIFICS BUT IT WOULD LIKELY
LIFT THE ENROLLMENT AND INCOME
CAPS ON THE VOUCHER PROGRAMS
ALLOWING WEALTHY PROGRAMS TO USE
TAX DOLLARS TO PAY PRIVATE
SCHOOL AND THE PROBLEM IS WHEN
THEY LEAVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS
THEY STILL TO PAY THE LIGHT BILL
AND THEY'RE REQUIRED TO RAISE
PROPERTY TAXES TO MAKE UP THE
DIFFERENCE.
>> IT WILL BE A PROPERTY TAX
INCREASE.
>> HIS PLAN IS NEEDED BY
POINTING TO A HANDFUL OF
MILWAUKEE SCHOOLS IN BLACK
NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SAW READING
SCORES CRASH DURING COVID.
>> BABY GIRLS HAVE ZERO CHANCE
AT BEING SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE
UNLESS WE CHANGE EDUCATION.
THAT'S WHY IT'S THE FOUNDATION
OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.
WE'RE GETTING UNIVERSAL SCHOOL
CHOICE AND GET MILWAUKEE IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION.
>> THE PROBLEM IS MILWAUKEE'S
HAD A VOUCHER PROGRAM FOR THREE
DECADES.
UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE WON'T
CHANGE THE SITUATION THERE AT
ALL.
ATTACKING SCHOOLS MAY BE GOOD
POLITICS BUT EVERS SAYS IT'S
DANGEROUS POLICY.
>> WHAT'S IT DO TO OUR
INSTITUTIONS IN THE MEANTIME?
IT DESTROYS THEM.
SO IT'S POLITICS AT ITS WORSE.
>> AND THEY MAY TURN INTO
POLICY.
THE VETO OF A REPUBLICAN BILL
THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED PARENTS
TO SUE OVER THE USE OF NAMES AND
PRONOUNS FOR TRANSGENDER KIDS.
MICHELS WOULD SIGN IT.
>> IF MY OPPONENT IS ELECTED IT
WILL IMPACT REPRODUCTIVE SKILLS
AND YOU NAME IT, WISCONSIN WILL
BE A DIFFERENT PLACE.
>> WE KNOW THEY'RE
INDOCTRINATING OUR CHILDREN.
>> IN HIS SPEECHES TO
CONSERVATIVE AUDIENCES HIS
RHETORIC IS MORE INFLAMED.
>> IT'S A CULTURAL SHIFT THE
LEFT WANTS PART OF DESTROYING
AMERICA.
>> HE LINKED PUBLIC SCHOOLS ONE
THE NUMBER OF MOVEMENTS
CONNECTED TO BLACK AMERICA.
>> WE BELIEVE THE COUNTRY IS ON
A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO SOCIALIVELY
AND CLOAKED BEHIND CRT AND BLM
AND DEFUND THE POLICE.
>> TO EVERS THE RACIST UNDER
TONES SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF HARM THAT'S
DONE BY DIVIDING PEOPLE.
THAT'S HOW TRUMP DOES ITS AND MY
OPPONENT DOES IT.
>> GOVERNOR DeSANTIS PRAISE
MICHELS.
>> YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DO IT IN
WISCONSIN AND THEN SOMEWHAT WE
DID IN FLORIDA.
>> HE SIGNED A BILL THE CRITICS
SAY THE DON'T SAY GAY BILL
PREVENTING ELEMENTARY TEACHERS
FROM TALKING ABOUT SEXUAL
ORIENTA
ORIENTATION.
>> WE DON'T NEED DeSANTIS TO
TELL US HOW TO DO THINGS.
>> THE POLITICS AREN'T GOOD FOR
WISCONSIN SCHOOLS.
>> IF MY OPPONENT'S ELECTED WE
COULD BE LIKE FLORIDA -- WELL,
EXACTLY THINKS THAT'S A GOOD
IDEA?
>> HOW DID MICHELS WANT STUDENTS
EDUCATED ON THE ISSUE OF RACE
AND GENDER?
>> WE'LL LET PARENTS DECIDE NOT
WOKE EDUCRATS.
>> HE BELIEVES THERE'S A LIBERAL
KABAL IN EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT
IN THE IS THAT RIGHT IS WOKE,
WHATEVER THAT MEANS.
>> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE KIDS SEE
THEMSELVES REPRESENTED IN THE
HISTORY WE TEACH.
>> STATE SUPERINTENDENT JILL
UNDERLY SAID CRITICAL RACE
THEORY NOT A SUBJECT TAUGHT IN
K-12 SCHOOLS BUT WHAT YOU'RE
ASKING ARE WE TEACHING STUDENTS
ABOUT RACE AND RACISM, THEN THE
ANSWER IS AND SHOULD BE YES.
THAT'S WHAT HAS MICHELS UPSET.
>> I DISAGREE WITH THE STATEMENT
FREDRICA THAT EVERYTHING IS
BEING TAUGHT PROPERLY.
PARENTS HAVE SHOWN ME THE STUFF
TAUGHT TO THEIR KIDS IN SCHOOL
AND OUTRAGED AND DON'T LIKE IT.
>> EVERS SAID MICHELS IS TRYING
TO USE THAT TO GET ELECT.
>> PEOPLE CAN'T DEFINE IT AND
THEN PEOPLE GET ANGRY WITH EACH
OTHER.
IT'S A WAY OF DIVIDING PEOPLE
AND IF YOU DIVIDE PEOPLE AND IN
SUCH A WAY THAT 51% BELIEVE YOU,
YOU'LL GET ELECTED.
>> REPORT FROM MADISON, I'M ZAC
SCHULTZ FOR HERE AND NOW.
>> Frederica: WE HAVE A
CORRECTION FROM LAST WEEK.
WE MIS-IDENTIFIED STACY SCOGGIN.
WE HAVE THE LATEST POLL AHEAD OF
THE ELECTION.
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL
DIRECTOR JOINS US.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Frederica: WE HAVE A TOSS-UP
AND A DEAD HEAT WITH EVERS AND
MICHELS EACH AT 48% AMONG LIKELY
VOTERS.
THIS HAS MOVED IN MICHEL'S
DIRECTION.
WHAT DO ADS DO TO THE VOTERS?
>> WE'VE SEEN A SMALL BUT
CONSISTENT TIGHTENING IN THE
GOVERNOR'S RACE.
I THINK THE CAMPAIGN HAS TO DO
WITH THE ADVERTISING IS
VOLUMINOUS MORE THAN IN PREVIOUS
RACE.
SO PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY EXPOSED
TO CAMPAIGN MESSAGES WHETHER
THAT PRODUCES A TIGHTER RACE OR
NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT CERTAINLY
IT MEANS THAT VOTERS HAVE GAINED
INFORMATION ABOUT THE CANDIDATES
AND FORMED OPINIONS ABOUT THEM
ESPECIALLY TIM MICHELS THE
CHALLENGER.
TONY EVERS THEIR VIEWS HAVEN'T
CHANGE AS MUCH ON HIM
>> Frederica: TURNOUT WILL BE
EVERYTHING.
>> TURNOUT WILL BE EVERYTHING A,
BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS EVERYTHING,
BUT ALSO HERE IN WISCONSIN WHERE
WE'RE LOOKING AT SUCH A CLOSE
RACE, TIED AT 48% IN OUR POLL
DOESN'T GET ANY CLOSER THAN
THAT.
EVEN LITTLE CHANGES MATTER AND
SO YOU'RE SEEING BOTH PARTIES
PULLING OUT ALL THE STOPS THIS
WEEK AND OVER THE WEEKEND TO TRY
TO GET EVERY LAST SINGLE VOTER
THEY CAN GET.
BECAUSE WE'RE PAST THE POINT
WHERE THERE'S VERY MANY PEOPLE
TO INFLUENCE.
>> Frederica: AND SINCE YOUR
LAST PAUL BONDS HAS MOVED UP.
GOING INTO THIS RON JOHNSON WAS
REGARDED AS ONE OF THE MOST
VULNERABLE RE-ELECTION BY THE
NATIONAL PUNDITS.
WHAT'S RESPONSIBLE AMONG
WISCONSIN VOTERS FOR HIM
MAINTAINING HIS STAYING POWER?
>> AS WE SAW IN 2016 WHEN
JOHNSON WON RE-ELECTION THE LAST
TIME, HE STARTED THE YEAR VIEWED
UNFAVORABLY BY QUITE A BIT OF
ABOUT 9 OR 10 POINTS UNFAVORABLE
THAN FAVORABLE VIEWS.
OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR IN
EACH POLL HE'S GOTTEN JUST A
LITTLE BIT MORE FAVORABLE AND
HIS NET NOW IS JUST BARELY NET
NEGATIVE.
SO HE'S STILL A LITTLE NET
NEGATIVE BUT IMPROVED OVER THE
COURSE OF THE XAVCAMPAIGN.
THAT'S THE SAME WHEN HE STARTED
LAST TIME AND CAUGHT UP.
WE SEE TIGHTENING WHERE WE HAD
JOHNSON UP 6 POINTS TO TODAY UP
BY 2 POINTS BUT DIDN'T REALIZE
IT REPRESENTS A 2-POINT CHANGE
IN BARNES' FAVOR AND AGAINST
JOHNSON.
WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT 2-POINT
CHANGE ON EACH OF THE
CANDIDATES.
THAT'S ALL IT TOOK TO GO FROM A
6-POINT TO 2-POINT LEAD.
> Frederica: IN THE CARES ABOUT
PEOPLE LIKE ME, CATEGORY, BOTH
HAVE IT OVER THE REPUBLICANS 52%
OF OF RESPONDENTS SAID TONY
EVERS CARES WITH 40% SAYING HE
DOESN'T.
THAT'S COMPARED TO TIM MICHELS
WHERE 43% SAID HE CARES ABOUT
PEOPLE LIKE THEM AND 46% SAID HE
DOESN'T CARE.
DO PEOPLE VOTE BASED ON THIS
PERCEPTION?
>> WE ALWAYS THINK SO BUT I PUT
THE QUESTION IN IN PART TO SEE
THIS.
THE DEMOCRAT HAS THE ADVANTAGE
YET THE RACE IS TIED.
MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE OF THE
ADVANTAGE ON THE PERSONAL
CHARACTERISTIC IS WHY EVERS IS
DOING AS WELL AS HE DID AND IF
HE DIDN'T HE MAY BE TRAIL.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THE PARTISAN
TIES MAY INFLUENCE VOTING FOR A
CANDIDATE WHEN WE DON'T THINK
THEY'RE TERRIFIC OR CARE MORE
ABOUT ME.
>> Frederica: IN THE SENATE RACE
49% SAID MENDELA BARNES CARES
ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THEM WITH 42%
SAYING AND FOR JOHNSON 49% SAID
HE DOESN'T.
IS THIS MOSTLY ABOUT RICH VERSUS
WORKING CLASS OR IS THERE
SOMETHING MORE HERE?
>> I WONDER ABOUT THAT.
IT'S INTERESTING THAT DESPITE
THE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN ADS THAT
WE'VE SEEN THROUGH THE YEAR,
BARNES MAINTAINS THIS ADVANTAGE
THOUGH OUT OF THOSE ATTACKS ARE
DIRECTED AT HIM.
WE DID ASK FOR THE CLASS
QUESTION, DO EACH OF THESE
CANDIDATES CARE -- WHO BETTER
UNDERSTANDS THE PROBLEMS OF
ORDINARY PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN?
WE PUT THAT THERE BECAUSE WE
HAVE TWO MILLIONAIRES RUNNING
AGAINST TWO NON-MILLIONAIRES.
YOU MAY THINK SOCIAL CLASS WOULD
MATTER BUT WE SAY THE DEMOCRATS
HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN
ADVANTAGE ON THAT BUT NOT REALLY
A LOT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE BEING
WEALTHY AS A CANDIDATE MAKES
PEOPLE THINK YOU DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE ORDINARY
PROBLEMS.
>> Frederica: FOR YOUR POLLING
OF ALL REGISTERED VOTERS IT'S IN
VIOLENCE AND EDUCATION AND THE
RANKING OF ISSUES DOES NOT FULLY
COMFORT WITH WHAT VOTERS ARE
ECHOING.
FOR DEMOCRATS INFLATION COMES IN
AT 5 AND ABORTION AT NUMBER 1.
FOR REPUBLICANS, VOTE COUNT ANG
RASSY IS ONE AND INFLATION AND
THEN CRIME IS THREE.
FOR ALL REGISTERED VOTERS AND
INDEPENDENT VOTERS PUBLIC
SCHOOLS VOTE HIGHER THAN FOR
EITHER DEMS OR GOP AND
INDEPENDENTS TRACK ISSUE TO
REGISTERED VOTERS THAN MAJOR
PARTY RESPONDENTS.
WHAT'S THIS SAY FOR HOW THE
PARTIES DECIDE FOR THE VOTERS
INSTEAD THE OTHER WAY AROUND?
>> I THINK WHEN WE SEE THE
PARTIES TALK ABOUT ISSUES AT THE
TOP OF THEIR LIST YOU'RE SEEING
AN APPEAL TO THE BASE.
REPUBLICANS PUSHED CRIME AN
ISSUE WHICH NEAR THE TOP FOR
THEIR VOTERS AND DEMOCRATS
PUSHED ABORTION.
WHOSE SPEAKING TO THE
INDEPENDENTS THEY'RE A MIX.
>> Frederica: CHARLES FRANKLIN
AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK.
>> THANK YOU, NOW EVERYBODY GO
VOTE.
>> Frederica: WISCONSIN LEADS
THE NATION IN A RANKING OF YOUTH
VOTERS THAT ARE LIKELY TO
INFLUENCE THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS
ACCORDING TO A TUFT'S RESEARCH
GROUP SAYING WISCONSIN YOUTHS
HAVE HAD ABOVE AVERAGE VOTER
ENGAGEMENT IN THE RECENT
COMPETITIVE ELECTIONS.
WE TRAVELED ACROSS THE STATE IN
LATE SEPTEMBER TO FIND OUT WHAT
KINDS OF ISSUES THEY'RE THINKING
ABOUT AND HOW THEY VIEW THEIR
NEWLY ACQUIRED RIGHT TO VOTE.
>> EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT VIEWS
BUT THE OPTION THE ABILITY TO
VOTE IS WAY TO GET YOUR VIEW
OUT, YOUR DECISION NO MATTER
WHAT IT IS.
>> I FEEL LIKE IF ONLY ONE TYPE
OF PEOPLE VOTE YOU CAN'T GET
EVERYONE'S OPINION AND THEN THAT
WON'T BE EQUAL.
>> IF I COULDN'T VOTE I COULDN'T
TRY TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT'S
GOING ON AROUND ME AND IF I
CAN'T MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT'S
GOING ON AROUND ME I'M JUST
LIVING HERE WITHOUT ANY SORT OF
ANYTHING GOING ON.
>> I'D SAY IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT
BECAUSE I THINK EVEN ONE PERSON
VOTING CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
>> THE RIGHT DO VOTE IS
IMPORTANT BECAUSE WITHOUT THE
RIGHT TO VOTE COMMUNITIES THAT
ARE OPPRESSED DON'T HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ORE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO COME FORWARD FOR
THEIR STORIES FOR THE PEOPLE
THEY ELECT TO OFFICE.
>> I THINK AS AN PERSON YOU'RE
NOT USING YOUR FULL FREEDOM AND
RIGHTS IF YOU DON'T VOTE.
HAVE YOU A SAY IN THE BIG
PICTURE AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN
GOVERNMENT AND USE THAT VOICE
BECAUSE IT DID MATTER.
>> Frederica: THOSE STUDENT
INVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED AT
SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE
INCLUDING AT TWO WITH PBS NEWS
HOUR REPORTING LABS.
>>> THEY FIRED THE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR OF MILWAUKEE ELECTIONS
COMMISSION WITH MISDEMEANOR
ELECTION FRAUD FOR THREE FAKE
MILITARY ABSENTEE BALLOTS.
HERE'S WHAT THE ADMINISTRATOR
MEGAN WOLF SAID IN PART.
>> I'M DEEPLY DISAPPOINT IN THIS
INDIVIDUAL'S ACTIONS.
THE ELECTION OFFICIAL VIOLATED
ELECTION LAW AND UNDERMINE THE
TRUST OF THE PUBLIC AND ELECTION
WORKERS.
THE ACTION OF THIS SINGLE
INDIVIDUAL WERE SWIFTLY DETECTED
AND NO IMPACT ON THE NOVEMBER 8
ELECTION.
>> Frederica: IN THE FINAL
RUN-UP TO THE NOVEMBER 8
ELECTION, PRESIDENT JILL BIDEN
TOOK IN THE AIRWAVES TO DECRY
THE POLITICAL VIOLENCE SAYING
THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN
FUELED THE CAPITAL INSURRECTION
AND THE RECENT ATTACK ON NANCY
PELOSI'S HUSBAND.
>> IT'S A LIE THAT FUELED THE
RISE IN VIOLENCE AND VOTER
INTIMIDATION IN THE PAST TWO
YEARS.
>> Frederica: IS THERE A DIRECT
LINE FROM DISINFORMATION TO
VOTER INTIMIDATION AND POLITICAL
VIOLENCE WE MISINFORMATION WITH
EXPERT ON POLITICAL
COMMUNICATION MIKE WAGNER ALSO
ENGAGED IN RESEARCH ON THE
TOPIC.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> Frederica: IS IT A QUESTION
DISINFORMATION FUELS VIOLENCE
AND VOTER INTIMIDATION?
>> IT'S A QUESTION AND IT SEEMS
TO.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SEE MISS
AND DISINFORMATION ON THEIR
SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS AND MORE
EXTREME CORNERS OF THE INTERNET
AND IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO MEET
UP TOGETHER AN THERE ARE DIRECT
LINES WE CAN DRAW BETWEEN THE
MISINFORMATION ONLINE AND
PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR THAT CAN TURN
VIOLENT.
>> Frederica: THIS IS AN OLD
QUESTION BUT WHAT DOES WHAT THE
PRESIDENT CALLS THE BIG LIE
PERSIST EVEN IN THE FACE OF SO
MUCH FACT CHECKING AND EVIDENCE
TO THE CONTRARY?
>> PART IS SO MANY PEOPLE ON THE
REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO
ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS CONTINUE
TO FUEL IT.
MUCH OF THE OPINIONS THAT
AMERICANS DEVELOP IS DRIVEN IN
PART BY WHAT OUR OFFICIALS SAY
AND HELP SHAPE OUR ATTITUDE.
MOST LOOK TO THE LEADER OF THE
PARTY WE PREFER TO HELP US MAKE
SENSE OF THE WORLD AROUND IF
LEADERS ARE SAYING THE ELECTION
WAS STOLEN IT BECOMES HARD TO
TRUST THE FACT CHECK AND COUPLE
THAT WITH THE TALK RADIO AND FAR
RIGHT ECOLOGY ON SOCIAL MEDIA
SAYING YOU CAN'T TRUST THE NEWS
MEDIA YOU HAVE A TOXIC MIX OF
DISTRUST.
>> Frederica: HOW MUCH
MISINFORMATION OR DISINFORMATION
IS FLYING AROUND RIGHT NOW?
>> THERE'S A LOT.
THE TRUTH SENDS TO BE MORE
MUNDANE AND DISINFORMATION MORE
EMOTIONAL AND WE RECOGNIZE IT
AND LIKELY TO GET SHARED SO IT
SPREADS FASTER THAN THE TRUTH
WHY WE CAN'T CATCH UP.
>> Frederica: SO YOU'RE LOOKING
AT THIS ALL THE TIME.
WHAT'S ONE OF THE MOST EGREGIOUS
EXAMPLES YOU'VE SEEN.
>> THAT THERE ARE ELECTED
OFFICIALS RUNNING SECRET RINGS
THAT ABUSE CHILDREN AND OTHERS
RELATED TO VACCINATES.
NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT REDUCES THE
LIKELIHOOD AND VACCINATION DOWN
SO THE SPILLOVER IS HUGE AND HOW
IT AFFECTS OTHER ISSUES.
>> Frederica: WHERE'S IT MOST
HEAVILY TRAFFICKED?
SOCIAL MEDIA, TWITTER, FACEBOOK
IS A PLACE.
OTHER MORE EXTREME, PARLOR,
OTHER PLACES WHERE IT PURVEYS
QUITE A BIT.
THERE'S A NETWORK OF PEOPLE
WILLING TO SHARE IT.
IT'S PROFITABLE TO DO IT.
>> Frederica: WHY DO PEOPLE
EMBRACE IT?
>> SOME DO IT BECAUSE IT FEELS
GOOD TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE
HAVING TO HEAR THE NEGATIVE
THINGS ABOUT THEM AND OTHERS DO
IT BECAUSE IT'S PROFITABLE OR IT
MIGHT HELP THEIR PARTICULAR SIDE
GAIN POWER.
OTHERS PREFER CHAOS AND THERE'S
A SMALL SUBSET OF PEOPLE WHO
ENJOY WATCHING THE WORLD BURN
AND MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHARE
THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE TO STIR
THINGS UP.
>> Frederica: FORMER PRESIDENT
OBAMA ASKED WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
TRUTH DOESN'T MATTER ANY MORE?
>> WE LOSE A SHARED OPPORTUNITY
TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IF WE CAN'T
AGREE ON TRUTH HOW CAN WE AGREE
ON POTENTIAL WAYS TO SOLVE THE
PROBLEMS?
OUR ABILITY TO GOVERNOR
OURSELVES IS DEEPLY AFFECTED
WHETHER THERE'S COLLECTIVE
UNDERSTANDINGS OF WHAT'S
VERIFIABLY TRUE.
>> Frederica: IS THAT WHERE WE
ARE NOW?
>> I THINK IT'S A LITTLE STRONG
BUT BARELY.
I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS STUDYING
THESE ISSUES ARE WORRIED PEOPLE
MAY SHUT OFF TO UNDERSTANDING
THE INFORMATION THAT'S BAD FOR
THEIR SIDE SHOULD BE REJECTED
AND PEOPLE NEED TO ACCEPT WHEN
THEY LOSE AND I'M A VIKINGS FAN,
WE'VE NEVER WON A SUPER BOWL AND
I WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF A ROOM
IF I SAID WE HAD AND PEOPLE ARE
MAKING THE SAME BIZARRE CLAIMS
ON REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES LIKE
WHO WON AN ELECTION OR DOES THE
VACCINE CAUSE A PROBLEM.
>> Frederica: SO PERSISTENT
DISINFORMATION LIKE THIS STOLEN
ELECTION MAY WHIP SOME PEOPLE
INTO COMMITTING POLITICAL
VIOLENCE BUT WHAT EFFECT DOES
THIS HAVE ON THE LONG SIMMER ON
FOLKS WHO CRASH THE CAPITAL OR
HURT ANYBODY?
>> ONE THING IT DOES IS REDUCES
MANY PEOPLE'S BELIEF THAT WE CAN
SOLVE PROBLEMS THAT WE CAN WORK
TOGETHER TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.
IT LOWERS OUR ABILITY TO WANT TO
COMPROMISE WITH THE OTHER SIDE.
IF THE OTHER SIDE IS DANGEROUS
AND EVIL WHY WOULD WE WANT TO
COMPROMISE.
THERE'S LONG-TERM PROBLEMS IN
TERMS OF GENERALIZED PROBLEM
SOLVING AND THE LACK OF TRUST IN
PEOPLE WHO CAN TELL US
VERIFIABLY TRUE INFORMATION AND
THERE'S TIMES WHEN WE NEED TO
KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND COULD BE
LIFE AND DEATH AND IF WE CANNOT
TRUST JOURNALISTS WHO FACE
CONSEQUENCES WHEN THEY SAY
THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE, IF WE
DON'T TRUST THEM WE'RE IN REAL
TROUBLE.
>> Frederica: WHAT'S GOING TO
BREAK THIS CYCLE?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I WISH I KNEW THE ANSWER.
I THINK ONE THING THAT CAN HELP
IS LISTENING.
I THINK WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO
PERSUADE PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW
BELIEVE THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE
WE SHOULD AIM FOR THE HEART AND